"I'll donate, but only if I get nothing in return."

[Loony BoB]

Don't you find it weird how when an organisation you like asks for donatoins, various people all jump at the chance to donate something with absolutely nothing in return, but when they actually say something like "We are offering a considerably large PM storage limit for a year or two if you send in $12 / $20, and the first $129 will be going towards a new interactive FanArt gallery" then people shut up shop? Man it would be pretty cool if we got another US$97.

Do you only donate to causes if you get nothing in return?

PS. Props to Miriel for chipping in. :up: You and I are the only ones so far but I'm sure we can find more (not really sure but I like sounding optimistic)!

[Rusty]

I would give money, except I don't want more PM space. It's cheaper for me to just delete messages than pay for more space xD

[Loony BoB]

Silly, this isn't asking you to give money, it's wondering why some people only give up their money for a good cause if they don't get something back for it. It's definitely a ploy to make people more aware of what's going on, too, but if someone knows what's going on and still doesn't want to chip in then I'm totally cool with that. Someone just said a while ago that I should make a thread about it instead of an announcement. :p

[Miriel]

Who is this Miriel person? She must be awesome. :)

As for the whole donating thing, in the annoucement you said: Please note that this payment is not a donation.

I have a feeling that a lot more people would be willing to donate to EoFF and be given perks as a thank you, than they would be to make a payment to recieve perks that they don't necessarily need or want.

[edczxcvbnm]

I don't give money away. I give time away. I have not done it in a long time but I plan to start working at the homeless shelter program in my area again after I move out and get settled in where ever I am.

Giving your time I think always shows that you care more.

[Loony BoB]

As for the whole donating thing, in the annoucement you said: Please note that this payment is not a donation.

I have a feeling that a lot more people would be willing to donate to EoFF and be given perks as a thank you, than they would be to make a payment to recieve perks that they don't necessarily need or want.
Yeah, but I also said pretty clearly after the 'not a donation' bit that that first $129 would go towards the software - meaning in all effect, the first $129 would indeed be a donation. I mean, if it wasn't a donation then you wouldn't see me coughing up 11.something quid. I already had the high PM limit, after all. :p

[Miriel]

Well then, you should make that more clear. That whole annoucement read like an ad for a product, instead of a request for donations.

But yeah, I loooooove my new PM storage limit. :love:

[Old Manus]

I wouldn't pay for more PM space because I know I wouldn't use it, which means money wasted. There's more chance of me donating because I give some money and it's over with, and I don't feel pressured into using something I just paid for

[Madame Adequate]

I wouldn't pay for more PM space because I know I wouldn't use it, which means money wasted. There's more chance of me donating because I give some money and it's over with, and I don't feel pressured into using something I just paid for

lol, Old Manus, you so craz... wait... was that... not sarcasm...?

Does not compute.

Anyway, I doubt I'd donate for nothing in return either, 'cause I'm miserly that way. And poor. But yeah, unless it was something I really wanted, I'd be more likely to plain donate than to purchase.

[Ultima Shadow]

People actually read the annoucements? Oh my! That's something new!

Also, I never donate. :greenie:

[Jess]

I've never even filled my PM space completely. :(

If I have money, I'll donate to things whether I'm getting anything in return or not. I just hardly ever have money.

[Meat Puppet]

Still not sure how to get money on the internet. So far I've tried putting it in the floppy drive and the CD drive, but nothing has happened thus far.

Also, I don't have a scanner just in case you were going to suggest that.

[Old Manus]

lol, Old Manus, you so craz... wait... was that... not sarcasm...?

Does not compute.

oh you want sarcasm

HAHA LOL DAYLITE ROBERY

[Ashi]

I've never experienced that.

Maybe they feel that these are things they don't need. Maybe people shouldn't be told about future upgrades when asked for donations.

[RSL]

I donated last time Cid asked. However, paying for extra PM space for myself would be a bit silly as I already have that.

[Rye]

I donate little bits of money whenever I see people with those cans. Usually that's for nothing in return. Once some boys were offering really old squishy granola bars in return for a dollar but I told them they could keep it, nicely. But I dunno if that's me just being grossed out by the old granola bars or being generous. Who knows. xD

But if I could donate to EoFF, I would. But I don't have a credit card. :(

[Lost Number]

Same here, this seems a nice place.
They did a study on altruism.
People will be altruistic, even when they would not give when they would recieve a direct prize. Its just odd.

[Captain Maxx Power]

"We are offering a considerably large PM storage limit for a year or two if you send in $12 / $20, and the first $129 will be going towards a new interactive FanArt gallery" then people shut up shop?

Four words buddy: I don't have PayPal.

[Rye]

Four words buddy: I don't have PayPal.

Yeah. Just because people aren't helping doesn't mean they don't want to. I'm only 15, I don't have a credit card or PayPal and my parents are starkly "THE INTERNET = RAPISTS!11" so s'not like I can ask them to help me. :(

[Dr Unne]

Perhaps the problem is putting a dollar amount on how much you have to give to get PM space. It seems like you're selling something. There is a different mindset between buying something someone's selling, and donating money to a cause. I become extremely defensive when someone tries to sell me something.

[Raistlin]

I donated the last time Cid asked, therefore I don't want to donate this time.

I think main issue is that the people who were willing to donate did so last time, so now there's no one left. :p

Plus, it'd be silly for me to buy PM space. I think I still have something over 64,000 PMs before I'm filled up.

[Dr Unne]

PayPal are shysters. Is there a way to donate money that does not involve using PayPal, and which does not involve getting anything in return? If you're concerned that people aren't donating money because they don't like the PM option, then keep that option but add another which you give money and get nothing.

[Zeldy]

Im hopeless when it comes to money. I buy things just because I have money :3

and like Rye said, my parents also think "INTERNET = PAEODFILES!!11" so asking them about donating to EoFF would be pointless :p

[Psydekick]

No offence BoB but its a waste of money:)

[KentaRawr!]

I would donate if I could, but I personally I think that the donation should be used to keep EoFF going the way it is. Extra PM space really isn't needed. o_o But still, if I could donate, I would.

[Resha]

I guess they feel virtuous. "Oh! I am giving money for little children in a far away land who will probably not get the money because of corruption in the government! What a good person I am! I will go to heaven!" Now, don't get me wrong - donating is good! It's a selfless act, and nothing against it. But maybe people are more willing to give money for something that they feel is for 'public good' or for the 'betterment of humanity', as opposed to something for themselves (assuming that the 'something' in question is something they can very well do without - exceptions being most material goods :D). In that case, it'd just be a 'waste'.

[rubah]

We really should have pushed this to you guys as a fundraiser, dangit.

[Loony BoB]

Perhaps the problem is putting a dollar amount on how much you have to give to get PM space. It seems like you're selling something. There is a different mindset between buying something someone's selling, and donating money to a cause. I become extremely defensive when someone tries to sell me something.
We are selling something, I'll give everyone that. All I'm saying is that the first $129 will go towards the completely revamped FanArt section, which makes the first so-many purchases in all effect a donation. If people don't care enough about the FanArt section or donating whatsoever, that's fine. What I find strange is that people are willing to give to a cause if they get nothing in return, but not willing to give to a cause if they do get something in return. If they aren't going to donate anyway then I'm not bothered at all. This is just a case of "If you're going to donate, is it really that bad that you get something back?" Because I know a lot of people who have been willing to donate but extremely few that are willing to actually get something back.

I would just find it very odd if someone was given two options - one to get nothing and one to get something - but they chose the one to get nothing. That's what this thread is more so about.

I think Resha probably hit the nail on the head.

It's up to Cid how this is presented (donations or selling etc.) so I won't make any such call. All I'm saying is that if you want to donate, you could do it this way or the other way and this way you get something for it, that's the only difference to you.

rubah: We could have done it that way, but the 'donation' side of things is only the first $129 so it doesn't work too well - that's why we aren't calling it a donation right now.

EDIT: Here's a more straight forward look at it.

Loony_BoB: I mean... a lot of people have said they'd give money if it was a donation.
Loony_BoB: But if they have two options...
Loony_BoB: 1) They give Cid money and he puts it towards the new FanArt section.
Loony_BoB: and...
Loony_BoB: 2) They give Cid money and he puts it towards the new FanArt section and they get PM space.
Loony_BoB: ...why pick #1?

[-N-]

Perhaps the problem is putting a dollar amount on how much you have to give to get PM space. It seems like you're selling something. There is a different mindset between buying something someone's selling, and donating money to a cause. I become extremely defensive when someone tries to sell me something.Yeah - there's a personal story I have that relates to this. In 2001, there was an earthquake that struck near my hometown in India (the one where like 13000 died and stuff). I was in highschool at the time, and decided to do some fundraising thing. I got a couple of friends, a bunch of shoeboxes, and made little donation boxes to put in each classroom. I just gave a little pitch in each class and asked for some extra change. I tried asking our Key Club to do something. Key Club said they wouldn't support me, because they were going to sell $5 postcards to help the victims instead. Left the boxes there for two weeks, got over $1000, and got Intel Corp. to match that (they have a bunch of Indian workers :D). Anyways, I confronted Key Club after they ended their postcards thing - turns out they made barely $800. I concluded that 1) selling things when you're looking for goodwill is dumb and 2) Key Club is dumb. I'm not trying to say that I did better than Key Club or anything, but this story relates to the phenomenon that people don't always need something in return for their goodwill. It's goodwill, duh.

Last time Cid asked for money I sent 40 bucks his way. This time, I don't want PM space, so I send 0 bucks his way. The selling option doesn't give me a choice on whether I can donate or not. Those kids who come by selling candy and stuff for fundraisers? I don't want any candy - I don't like sweets. I always offer a couple of bucks, but they say they can't take it because they have to sell their crap in order for it to count. I concluded that 3) a capitalist approach to goodwill is dumb. It's goodwill, duh.

edit: sup BoB.
it's goodwill. duh. :p *makes into a slogan for some other cause later on*

[Loony BoB]

So basically you're saying it's a psychological thing.

What I'm saying is... if we did set it up so that you could donate and getting nothing as well as paying for PM space with proceeds going towards the same cause... what would be the point in choosing option #1? Unless you actually had a personal thought that you did not wish to have more PM space, I don't see the logical viewpoint. I know not everything works by logic, so I'm guessing it's psychological on some level.

Also: Not many people want postcards unless they're postage paid. ;)

[rubah]

We tried holding a drive for the people who were hit by the hurricanes back in august and didn't get a single thing.

[-N-]

I dunno what they were, some kinda cards. Whatever. My point still stands.

There is a lot of credit to Dr Unne's words that selling something induces pressure on the person you are selling to. You no longer are asking for donations, but you are now selling something. You can call it whatever you like, but "giving extra PM space for a donation" is no different from "selling PM space for a price". In the end, it doesn't fool the target, and the target is forced to view his/her relationship to you as a buyer/seller relationship, not a goodwill relationship. I guess you could call it psychological; if I understand your use of the word correctly, you mean it as something subconscious or not in the realm of conscious logic. Sure.

edit: rubah, there were a ton of organizations doing online drives during that time. People in general will want to go to the ones that are more established in better hopes of seeing their money put to good use. That's what I did, anyways.

[rubah]

Neel, our target was high school students. They don't want to put any more effort out than they have to. I doubt they donated anywhere else.

[Loony BoB]

So far these are the reasons I've found to be valid.

1) I don't like PMs and would rather have exactly or less than the current limit. Having more PM space is something that given a choice, even if it were free, I would choose against. PM space is yuck!

2) I want to choose a different amount.

3) I don't want to use PayPal.

Anything else as far as I can tell is purely psychological. I mean, basically all we're doing is giving people the option of, should they donate $12 or $20, whether they would like to have extra PM space or not. Don't want it? Alright. I mean, if this was a completely seperate option I think people would jump at the opportunity.

If I am giving to a cause, I give to that cause because I want to give to that cause. If I happen to have the option of gaining something for myself at no extra cost out of such an action that isn't something that I would find annoying (eg. a brochure, that's just junk to me), then I would take that option. It doesn't hurt anyone whatsoever and it benefits me. Hell, I'm game for that whenever it happens.

[Miriel]

Oh BoB.

Psychological reasons are extremely valid. They drive a lot of people in this world to do what they do. Why do you think people in marketing are required to take psychology classes?

[Loony BoB]

Yeah, I know. But people should start saying "Psychological reasons" instead of trying to pretty it all up with fancy words.

[Cz]

I haven't donated yet, nor do I plan to, as I don't have PayPal, and wouldn't really use the extra PMs anyway. But that's beside the point.

I don't think that people's hesitancy to donate has anything to do with getting something in return. It's not something subconscious either. It's simply that people feel that a donation to a registered charity helping victims of natural disasters/famine is more worthwhile than a donation to an internet site, even if it's a site as fantastic as EoFF. Reward or no reward, a contribution to Oxfam feels worthwhile, and a contribution to EoFF less so. Whether the recepient is 'selling' something or not isn't a factor.

[Madame Adequate]

oh you want sarcasm

HAHA LOL DAYLITE ROBERY

Gotta take what you can get, I suppose.

[Loony BoB]

Oh, I don't mean that, BM121. I understand that entirely. I'm talking about the people who would happily donate but would not purchase PM space knowing the money was going to the same place.

[Cz]

Oh, I don't mean that, BM121. I understand that entirely. I'm talking about the people who would happily donate but would not purchase PM space knowing the money was going to the same place.Ah.

...

Yeah, those people suck.

[Psychotic]

I don't like fan art. :D?

Or PayPal. I've read "stories", you know!

[Del Murder]

Psychology drives just about everything, really.

[Psydekick]

I don't like paypal at all:)

[Shlup]

I've never donated for something in return. The charities I've donated to didn't give bracelets, and the time I donated to EoFF I didn't get anything.

Maybe I'm not the only one who thinks paying for a fan art gallery is stupid.

[Yamaneko]

It's feature-rich. Something you can't always find in free software. I mean Cid pays for the forum software, and we could just as easily be using phpbb.

[Raistlin]

Maybe I'm not the only one who thinks paying for a fan art gallery is stupid.
I was about to say, if I was still willing to donate more (which I'm not), that would be the main reason I wouldn't. xD

[Dr Unne]

I mean Cid pays for the forum software, and we could just as easily be using phpbb.

PS: Why don't you?

[Raistlin]

Because phpbb sucks.

[Samuraid]

Then assume, for the sake of argument, that phpBB3 is out. :p

I agree with Neel.

[Agent Proto]

selling PM space for $12 or $20 seems a bit too expensive to me. If it was at least $5, you may get more people interested. But then again, they possibly don't want to purchase extra PM space, because they would consider all that space useless, and would feel bad for getting something they will likely not use.

I would donate to EoFF easily because I care about the place, but I wouldn't "donate" for extra PM space, hell, I already have extra PM space for being Former Staff, so I would consider the purchase a total waste of money.

[Loony BoB]

You could just consider it a donation and forget about the extra PM space, then, like I did. :D

[Doomie]

Did anyone else laugh at what ed said? Not because I'm being cruel but because I never expected him to do something like that. He seems more of a "KILLLLLLL ALLLL THE HOBOS" guy. Nice job man, you showed me even that biggest jerks care. xD

I'd donate if I had cash.

[Rase]

Honestly, PM space and a Fan Art Gallery don't really appeal to me. As for donating for nothing in return, well, I couldn't care less if I get something or not, as long as whatever I donated is used for it's stated reason. The only reasons I can think of at the moment that'd make me consider donating here is if it was in danger of being terminated or if it was for a really sweet upgrade of some sort that sounded good to me.

[Shlup]

How many members of the message board actually care about the fan art gallery? Or the main site at all? Like five? Asking forum members to donate to upgrade the fan art gallery is like asking American's to donate so the White House can add another wing. A wing where they cross-breed zebra with donkeys. Zenkey's we'll never ride.

[Loony BoB]

You're right. We should get Cid to use the ads to pay for the FanArt, and then tell everyone the site has no income for a month or two so we need the cash for that instead. >=]

[Psychotic]

But you wouldn't be able to tell us that, because the forums would be gone and none of us would be bothered to look on the front site. >=]]

[Loony BoB]

We'd let you know in advance, silly. Why the forums would be gone is beyond me if the frontsite was still there, though...

[Psychotic]

Oh, that's thoughtful! And because you're in charge, and you're crazy. I should know, we can smell our own.

[-N-]

I don't smell anything, oh wait :\

[Levian]

Oh, sorry about that.

[Fonzie]

If everyone on the site donated 1 to 5 dollars we'd be pretty good in buying upgrades for this site.

[escobert]

I actually plan on donating and I don't want the PM space so I'm going to ask to not have it xD :p

[Markus. D]

I will be able to donate once I move house ^_^

*is eating pocky ^_^*

[Miriel]

EoFF should have a car wash fundraiser or something. And the evil Dr Yams should be made to do all the washing.

[Yamaneko]

I cannot allow you that pleasure, I'm sure.

[Levian]

Everybody knows that light clothed chicks are the ones to always wash the cars. Which is why Neel should do it.

[-N-]

I was in charge of something like that once. I got to stuff a five dollar bill down some girl's bikini top. It was the most exciting part of that weekend. :\

She turned out to be a real meanie, so I don't really regret missing the chance.

[Mr. Graves]

I'm not big at all on PM space, heck, I don't even post here very much anymore. As to the general topic...

I don't donate, as my money situation is pretty tight. However, I definitely would if I had the money/time/resources to do so. I'd only donate if I knew that the charities in question wouldn't pocket part/most/all of my donation Red Cross-style. Can't be too careful with charities anymore. :mad:

[eestlinc]

just let people donate and then slip them the extra PM space without telling them.

[Loony BoB]

I'm not big at all on PM space, heck, I don't even post here very much anymore. As to the general topic...

I don't donate, as my money situation is pretty tight. However, I definitely would if I had the money/time/resources to do so. I'd only donate if I knew that the charities in question wouldn't pocket part/most/all of my donation Red Cross-style. Can't be too careful with charities anymore. :mad:
We only need $129 and we won't ask for more than that. So far we have $32.

[Psydekick]

i'm only 12 and i have better fings to do than donate my money:)

[Levian]

Yeah, Sora is right. We 12 year olds already have enough y'know with hitting puberty and all. So I won't donate.

[Psychotic]

Why don't you people do what other money-starved organisations do? ie, a nude calendar!

I know I'd pay six million bucks or however much it is that you people are asking for if you did a nude calendar!

[Death Penalty]

I was in charge of something like that once. I got to stuff a five dollar bill down some girl's bikini top. It was the most exciting part of that weekend. :\

She turned out to be a real meanie, so I don't really regret missing the chance.
More like the most exciting part of your life

[Loony BoB]

Why don't you people do what other money-starved organisations do? ie, a nude calendar!

I know I'd pay six million bucks or however much it is that you people are asking for if you did a nude calendar!
I would totally do a nude calendar for US$6,000,000.

[Miriel]

The best way to raise money would obviously be to have people pay to gain access to the secret porn forum.

[Levian]

we can sell cookies. Sure, they'll be old and crumbled when the mailing is done, but it's not like... nevermind, crappy idea.

[Loony BoB]

we can sell cookies. Sure, they'll be old and crumbled when the mailing is done, but it's not like... nevermind, crappy idea.
Actually, I've had cookies sent over from Nyijoisey and they arrived and were just fine. In fact, they were orgasmic. Best cookies I have ever had in my life. I can't even remember the name of the company Meg (person who sent them) worked for though...

[Miriel]

Del Murder sent me cookies. :)

And I sent him brownies and he told me they tasted funny. :(

[Loony BoB]

On a sidenote, $52 down, $77 to go! Progress!

[-N-]

The best way to raise money would obviously be to have people pay to gain access to the secret porn forum.:up:

[black orb]

I don't donate, as my money situation is pretty tight. However, I definitely would if I had the money/time/resources to do so.
>>> Same here i`d donate if I had enough money, the new fanart section is something I always wanted to see..

[Loony BoB]

Just another update, donations without benefits as well as purchasing PM storage for your friends at EoFF are both now accepted. Please see the announcements for details.

[Dr Unne]

Any chance of a non-Paypal option?

[Loony BoB]

There are things like Nochex and stuff that aren't enabled right now. You'd have to talk to Cid though as he'll need an account. He might accept cheques or something too... not sure.

[Chemical]

I've made an observation that there is no such thing as a self-less act, so in the case of donating you always get "something" in return. You feel good and positive about yourself, or if you've made a donation, to say a church or religious group, you may believe you receive the benefit of the almighty's grace.

In this instance, donating to EoFF may provide the following benefits:
better server, more pm space, admiration/acceptance/gratitude from staff and other popular members, a "Recognized Members" title.... etc. etc...

So... really whenever I donate I'm always aware that there is a selfmotivate reason for doing so. Either for the emotional/mental/physical/etc benefit that comes from donating.

Par example, when you donate you may be consumed with a feeling of generosity and goodness. You don't donate because it makes you feel like /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif. Hence the benefit.

Having said so, I don't donate money often, I much prefer donating my time which is just as valuable.

[Loony BoB]

Time sucks when you're trying to buy new software, though. :(

[black orb]

>>> If I were to donate money the only way I could do it is with Western Union Money Transfer..

[Loony BoB]

NOCHEX
Worldpay
Authorize.Net
2Checkout
Moneybookers

Just checked, and those are the other payment methods that vB3 allows for, although Cid would need to set accounts up for any of them if he wanted to use them. Again, if you wish to pay by one of these methods, contact Cid.