1572,the year of FF8. [Archive] - Page 3 - Eyes on Final Fantasy Forums

Heero Yuy NWZC

01-24-2006, 04:14 AM

No.Time order is relevant when you consider each era independently.For instance Winhill era is 1572 for example.
Nothing can be said about the exact dates of the other eras.
i have to bring this up.this is pretty much what this thread is about. now... HOW THE HELL IS IT IN 1572? u haven't proven that that us the exact time it is in. it could just be a poor area and nobody bothered to come and modernize because of the poor geographical features. i haven't said this earlier but the only possible cred and evidence i can give for FE's theory is that in the different cities(balamb, timber, esthar, etc.) there is various technology. This still doesn't change much since many cities have different tech since they are very distant.

Future Esthar

01-24-2006, 01:32 PM

Ok FE I think you are trying to say that Ultimecia's castle is Balamb Garden. I can actually see what your saying and you may be right but it doesnt matter. Ultimecia is in the far future so the fact that she took over Balamb Garden and redecorated a little then chained it up so it wouldnt go anywhere doesnt prove your time travel theory.

Or the opposite.Ultimecia´s castle was remodelled into Balamb Garden.

i have to bring this up.this is pretty much what this thread is about. now... HOW THE HELL IS IT IN 1572? u haven't proven that that us the exact time it is in. it could just be a poor area and nobody bothered to come and modernize because of the poor geographical features. i haven't said this earlier but the only possible cred and evidence i can give for FE's theory is that in the different cities(balamb, timber, esthar, etc.) there is various technology. This still doesn't change much since many cities have different tech since they are very distant.

I know that.Am no stupid.
But the evidence is more about how the " color check" shape fits the world map well.
I can show you that Laguna got hurt on Centra because he hitted an holographic wall.

Shin Gouken

01-24-2006, 02:02 PM

Can we start from the top?

How are their holographic walls. What is their purpose? How do they work? And what is their relevance in the game?

Ultimecias castle was or will be Balamb garden. How what where when why?

Edit: I know what. just how where when and why?

Future Esthar

01-24-2006, 02:17 PM

Let me just finish the game men.Be patient.I am on the beggining of the third disc now.

Christmas

01-24-2006, 02:21 PM

That is when you can actually see THE SECRET GAMEOVER FMV IN WHICH THE MISSILES HIT THE GARDEN AND IT REMAINS COLORFUL.
There were only pieces breaking up.It remains colorful,looking modern and recognizable.

Breaking up and getting burnt are two different case. And for Hyne's sake I dun see those garden's parts that got blown and remain colorful anyway.

One can clearly see it was ancient.The ancient look is not the result of a missile hit.

That very concept is plainly ridiculous.

Not as ridiculous as your theory.

No.Time order is relevant when you consider each era independently.For instance Winhill era is 1572 for example.
Nothing can be said about the exact dates of the other eras.

You just rebuked your own freaking theory.

I know that.Am no stupid.
But the evidence is more about how the " color check" shape fits the world map well.
I can show you that Laguna got hurt on Centra because he hitted an holographic wall.

I can show you Laguna got hurt because he jumped off the cliff. WANNA SEE?

Or the opposite.Ultimecia´s castle was remodelled into Balamb Garden.

I heard a rumour that Balamb Garden was remodelled into a Brothel during Ultimecia's era with Seifer as the Head Pimp, I wonder. :confused:

Future Esthar

01-24-2006, 02:22 PM

Not as ridiculous as your theory.

What theory?

And don´t double post.The mods will get angry.

Christmas

01-24-2006, 02:25 PM

What theory?

GUESS.

And don´t double post.The mods will get angry.

LIES, SLANDER. :mad2:

Future Esthar

01-24-2006, 02:27 PM

GUESS.

Please,tell me:cry:

Heero Yuy NWZC

01-24-2006, 04:07 PM

how can ulti's castle be remodelled in to balamb garden when she is in the future?that's bull. Cid and Norg made balamb garden from scrap. also, Laguna jumps off the cliff, not runs into a holo wall! u said the holo walls generate wind so no one could get close enought to touch them, so how can Laguna hit one?! also, if this is primarliy about the color check thing hthen why did u put the 1572 thing for a thread title? ur not making sense again.

MJN SEIFER

01-24-2006, 08:47 PM

how can ulti's castle be remodelled in to balamb garden when she is in the future?that's bull.

Probably time movment.

if this is primarliy about the color check thing hthen why did u put the 1572 thing for a thread title? ur not making sense again.

It started out as a question about Raines grave dates but I answered.

Future Esthar

01-24-2006, 10:14 PM

how can ulti's castle be remodelled in to balamb garden when she is in the future?that's bull. Cid and Norg made balamb garden from scrap.

Where had you been?
I said Ulti lives on the past and I used that screenshot as evidence that Ulti´s castle=Balamb Garden.The Garden was remodeled after an ancient shelter.This shelter was remodeled after something...and so on until the initial thing which is Ulti´s Castle.
Pretty obvious.Made all the sense.And we testify the shelter unlike the futureness of Ulti´s era.

Laguna jumps off the cliff, not runs into a holo wall! u said the holo walls generate wind so no one could get close enought to touch them, so how can Laguna hit one?!

Because Laguna hits a very high part of the wall(maybe a roof arc).The windmakers are only on the sea level (where they are needed).

Emery

01-25-2006, 12:06 AM

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Okay FE, can you just take some time off, go get a drink, go see your girlfriend if you have one, if you dont then go search for one. You know if not just have some time off, then come back and in one post just explain your WHOLE theory, with ALOT OF DETAILS Kay ? :D

Future Esthar

01-25-2006, 12:20 AM

Gonna play the game.

Omnislash07

01-25-2006, 01:39 AM

Okay FE it says in game that Ultimecia is in the future so dont try to say she isnt. That is in game proof something you have none of so that means your arguments against it have no base. Also it says in game that Balamb Garden was built on a Centra shelter and thats it. The Centra did not build it on top of something else, the Centra built it and then Cid added onto it.

Noj_R

01-25-2006, 03:45 AM

I demand proof for all your assumptions FE ( since theories need evidence to become a theory, otherwise it is a baseless assumption ).

So...Give me evidence. NOW!

Heero Yuy NWZC

01-25-2006, 04:14 AM

bull, bull, bull, bull, BULL! Ulti can not make her castle off of a garden! They would have corroded and become nothing by the time of Ultimecia! and now, u are changing ur theories by adding more information again! u said the holo walls have wind generators and that no one can come near them to discover them, and also when i brought up how birds could give away the presence of something there, u said that the wind would push them away also. now ur sayin that the wind generators are only at sea level! make up ur mind! ur keep trying to back up ur theories by modifying evidence you've already used. ur doing this all the time! knock it off!......this is great stuff though:D

Future Esthar

01-25-2006, 01:13 PM

Dear friends,there is no proof that Ulti comes from the future or that odine is not lying.
Not even our heros can get the proof.Let me explain:
Edea had junctioned a GF also.This means she also loses memory.
It includes the memory of the thoughts she experience while possessed.
If there is a machine that can imitate Ellone´s power one just needs to add computer graphical editing capabilities on that machine to mess the pictures of the different eras.That´s what happened to Edea.

Discord

01-25-2006, 02:08 PM

Dear friends,there is no proof that Ulti comes from the future or that odine is not lying.
Not even our heros can get the proof.Let me explain:
Edea had junctioned a GF also.This means she also loses memory.
It includes the memory of the thoughts she experience while possessed.
If there is a machine that can imitate Ellone´s power one just needs to add computer graphical editing capabilities on that machine to mess the pictures of the different eras.That´s what happened to Edea.

Why do you think that Edea had a GF junctioned? If you mean the magic and the inhumane powers, she was a Sorceress.:)

Anaisa

01-25-2006, 06:41 PM

I think you can draw a Gf off Edea. I think its Alexander, but im not sure.

Future Esthar

01-25-2006, 10:22 PM

Exactly.

Shin Gouken

01-25-2006, 10:44 PM

Exactly.

Edea has a gaurdian force and MUST (like our heroes) have her memory affected. Can't argue with that.

Future Esthar

01-25-2006, 10:47 PM

Thanks.
I realized something some minutes ago.
I found what is the magic the sorceresses allways pass to each other

Emery

01-26-2006, 12:08 AM

And...umm..that is ?? lol

Christmas

01-26-2006, 05:34 AM

Dear friends,there is no proof that Ulti comes from the future or that odine is not lying.
Not even our heros can get the proof.Let me explain:
Edea had junctioned a GF also.This means she also loses memory.

She had her memory screwed because Ultimecia is controlling her. That will explain why her memory recovered immediately after Ultimecia leaves her.

Seifer: Did you guys come to fight Matron? After all that she's done
for us? Hey Chicken-wuss. Lot's happened between us, eh?

Seifer know she is Matron and this will had triggered her memory already if she had lost her memory through junctioning of GF.

Edea: Squall, Quistis, Selphie. Irvine, Zell. You've all grown so much...
and become so strong... I have waited for this day to come. And also
feared this day would come. Is today a joyous day? Or an odious day?
Where is Ellone!? Have I protected Ellone!?

This is what she said after she is freed. She remember everyone of them.

It includes the memory of the thoughts she experience while possessed.
If there is a machine that can imitate Ellone´s power one just needs to add computer graphical editing capabilities on that machine to mess the pictures of the different eras.That´s what happened to Edea.

That is your personal conceptions of the machine.

Noj_R

01-26-2006, 06:14 AM

Dear friends,there is no proof that Ulti comes from the future or that odine is not lying.

Actually, there is evidence. First Odine says she is from the future, we can assume he tells the truth. Second, Odine obviously doesnt have the JME yet or else Squall and co. would destroy it, so it must be made in the future. Third, Ellone only has the power to "teleport" BACK in time not FORWARD. In the whole game she never goes forward in time, thus Ultimecia must be reaching back for Ellone as she cant go forward since Ellone doesnt possess that power. If she did, it would have been shown undoubtedly. So, Ulti is undisputably from the future.

On another note, this brings something to mind...Why would Odine make a Junction Machine Ellone thing anyway? Is it for his gain? Does he thirst for power? Maybe Ulti is his wife and he is Griever??? Just some thoughts...Im kind of serious, those questions are pretty valid. But, it is only a game, and not every side story, question, paradox, etc. can be explained...

Just some thoughts...:)

Christmas

01-26-2006, 01:36 PM

On another note, this brings something to mind...Why would Odine make a Junction Machine Ellone thing anyway? Is it for his gain? Does he thirst for power?

He is a scientist/researcher and is common he made the machine out of his own free will. Some of his other works are para-magic...etc.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/GF.jpg

Although he made the Odine Bangle because of his fear but:

Dr. Odine: Eghhhhhh! I kept this a secret to surprise you... It iz
because of me, Odine! I researched Ellone's power long ago. I made out
a pattern from ze current running through Ellone's brain. Once ze
pattern was determined, it was easy to mechanize. It may only be a toy
right now, but in ze time of Ultimecia, it iz an impressive working
machine! Which means there iz a machine which imitates Ellone's power.
It iz I who made ze first model of zat machine. I named ze machine
'Junction Machine Ellone'! It iz a vonderful thing to know that my
invention is used in ze future!

But based on his time/enthusiasm spent on researching on Ellone as we all noticed in the game, it weren't be surprise that he decided to create something similar just to get the kick out of it.

Maybe Ulti is his wife and he is Griever??? Just some thoughts...Im kind of serious, those questions are pretty valid. But, it is only a game, and not every side story, question, paradox, etc. can be explained...

Just some thoughts...:)

Griever is created from the party mind during the battle. It was mentioned in the scan info that Griever is the strongest GF.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/Griever.jpg

In the japanese version, Ultimecia said something like:

"From your feelings, I shall make the most powerful of things"
"The greater they are, the greater shall be your suffering! Fufu!"

It is not very exact but in the German translation:

What is the absolute power for you?
The stronger your will, the bigger your pain.
Face the power!"

::Griever comes and it gets pounded on for a while::

"Memory loss?
...that is what you fear?
Show them your true power!
Show them, Griever!"

Noj_R

01-26-2006, 11:26 PM

Yeah, that last comment about the griever being Odine and Ultimecia's husband was a bit of sarcasim...:D

Thanks for the info on Odine!

Future Esthar

01-26-2006, 11:58 PM

Try to refute this:

Odine lives on the future and used the machine to possess Ulti who lives on the past.

This kinda gives the explanation for Noj_R thread.

dante the demon prince

01-27-2006, 12:09 AM

hey christa=mas i thought d=griever was a lion he is supposed to be a lion

Noj_R

01-27-2006, 12:23 AM

Actually, there is evidence. First Odine says she is from the future, we can assume he tells the truth. Second, Odine obviously doesnt have the JME yet or else Squall and co. would destroy it, so it must be made in the future. Third, Ellone only has the power to "teleport" BACK in time not FORWARD. In the whole game she never goes forward in time, thus Ultimecia must be reaching back for Ellone as she cant go forward since Ellone doesnt possess that power. If she did, it would have been shown undoubtedly. So, Ulti is undisputably from the future.

Obviously you didnt read this. This is proof Ulti lives in the future.

If Ulti lives in the past, then where are the signs of her rule? Where is the record of Ulti's history? Why dont we hear of her?

The most imprtant question of all is this: Who defeated Ulti first?
Obviously it isnt Squall and co. because they live in a good world not an evil one. IF Ulti lived in the past and is no longer living in Squall's time, then who defeated her? Why is Odine giving Squall tips on how to kill Ulti if he is possessing her?

Obviously, Ulti cannot live in the past because of the above. These incidents above are true ( or would be ) if your theory was right. But it isnt and thats why we dont have t his confusing mess I mentioned above happening.

Try to refute this:

Odine lives on the future and used the machine to possess Ulti who lives on the past.

This is irrefutable:
Ellone cannot CONTROL people, she can only WATCH their actions, as Squall and co. did with Laguna. So how can a Odine using a machine that mimics Ellon's possession power, and control someone when it can only watch their past? Ellone and Squall concluded together in the game that the past CANNOT BE CHANGED...That is fact.

Your theories on these issues cannot be true.

Future Esthar

01-27-2006, 02:31 AM

If Ulti lives in the past, then where are the signs of her rule? Where is the record of Ulti's history? Why dont we hear of her?

Everything was remodeled through time and WOTC was created.

After Ulti was defeated the castle becomed Centra ruins.Maybe part of the castle make into Edea´s(Ulti´s house).
Lunar Cry happened.Continents shape changed.Continent was flooded.
The continent was freezed.Centra ruins was remodeled into Trabia Garden.
Edea´s house was remodeled into Balamb town.
Balamb´s vulcan became active.The lava melt the ice producing flood.
Estharians get out of Esthar and make it into FH (without realizing they would create a time loop).
FH was constructed right over Trabia Garden.
The technicians turned it into DSRC to research the sea and a supposed ruins which is inside Trabia Garden shelter.
They had to abandon it because of a disaster.
The great water pressure planed the top of the mountains.Water level drops and voila,we are on the south Esthar era.
Vegetation grows.Winhill civilization is born and they make a village.
DSRC is remodeled into Galbadia Garden,water starts to drop and dry letting only some rivers running there.
Galbadia Garden becames mobile and decouple some of it´s parts.Dollet empire appears along with Galbadia country and Deling city.Missile base and Desert prison were created.Winhill becomes Timber city.
Galbadia conquers Timber.They burn nearly all of the continents vegetation.Even after making roads and railroads they burn it all after a couple of years to prevent communication between Timber citizens and other places on the continent.
Meanwhile,FH technicians remodel Galbadia Garden into Balamb Garden.
Galbadians enhance Timber technology too much(even knowing they just want freedom).
Timber becames the capitol of Galbadia.
Another lunar cry happens changing continent´s shape.
Timber becomes Esthar city.Balamb Garden is remodeled again and moves to the city attaching to it.It becames the Presidencial Palace.

D.D.prison becomes Lunatic Pandora Laboratory,Missile Base become Lunar Gate,Dollet become Esthar Sorceress Memorial and Deling City becomes Tears Point.

That sumed it up.

Noj_R

01-27-2006, 04:28 AM

Everything was remodeled through time and WOTC was created. < lots of text > That sumed it up.

That didnt sum it up. Everything in that body of text was an assumption. You completely disregarded my post proving that Ultimecia was from the future. I would like to see some evidence prooving this instead of making a new theory ( the world changes/WOTC ) to make sure the old one is preserved ( Ulti is from the past ).

Alot of things dont make sense either, if Ulti was from the past then what about this:

Who defeated Ulti?
Who created WOTC?
Why is Odine possessing Ulti throught the JME?
Why is Odine helping you beat "himself" ( Ulti )?
Why is Squall and co. being sent to beat Ulti when she is dead already?

I would like some real ingame proof proving every point, and I would like to see an analysis of my post ( #534 ) if you please. I am curious to see how you can disregard ingame evidence that is proven and really irrefutable to further your theories.

Future Esthar

01-27-2006, 02:09 PM

Why is Odine helping you beat "himself" ( Ulti )?

The right question would be Why is Odine helping you to beat "himself" (Adel)?

Ulti was an excuse to replace "him" on Edea´s mouth.
Since he messed up with Edea´s mind he must find someone to fit the Ultimecia role and a method to send them to the past.
He then brought the Pandora time machine.It´s perfect for the plan.
Through it he send them to the past.
Now if Ellone ever send people´s counscience to the past they would see this scene and conclude the doctor was right.Thus he is safe even though he didn´t taked over the world at all.Not only this but he has hope that he can get revenge for the defeat of Adel.But if not,well at least he already used an enemy to replace him and his safe.
He would use Ulti to explain the origin of Edea´s powers through a time loop.
If Ulti is Edea things make sence .
Ulti is on the past.She goes to the future and pass her powers to Edea.She pretends to be dead and cames to the past again.Now she has passed her powers to Edea and had no powers.But it means in the future she will had no powers and will receive it from herself.
It´s like throwing a boomerang to herself.
Thus Ellone will think this is the source of all the troubles with Edea and will not try to search further on the past(her intention is just to help her Matron).
In fact she has done it but saw Ulti´s castle and thinking it was on the future she tought to herself "I must had used my ability wrongly.I am seeing the future".
Then she saw the scene were Ulti passed her powers to Edea and concluded it was the further past.
Looking into Ulti´s past she would saw the Ragnarok(Time machine) bringing Ulti´s aboard it to Earth along with the other Propagators.

TO BE CONTINUED.
I am important things to do now.Will come back later.

Heero Yuy NWZC

01-27-2006, 04:44 PM

hey FE, how come it takes u so long to reply? do u have to think on things before u answer. if so, then it sounds like ur making excuses rather than proof.

Future Esthar

01-27-2006, 04:54 PM

Did you learn to read?

I am important things to do now.Will come back later.

I am telling the thruth hear.I swear.

And I have to go again.

Christmas

01-27-2006, 05:46 PM

The right question would be Why is Odine helping you to beat "himself" (Adel)?

Ulti was an excuse to replace "him" on Edea´s mouth.
Since he messed up with Edea´s mind he must find someone to fit the Ultimecia role and a method to send them to the past.
He then brought the Pandora time machine.It´s perfect for the plan.
Through it he send them to the past.
Now if Ellone ever send people´s counscience to the past they would see this scene and conclude the doctor was right.Thus he is safe even though he didn´t taked over the world at all.Not only this but he has hope that he can get revenge for the defeat of Adel.But if not,well at least he already used an enemy to replace him and his safe.
He would use Ulti to explain the origin of Edea´s powers through a time loop.
If Ulti is Edea things make sence .
Ulti is on the past.She goes to the future and pass her powers to Edea.She pretends to be dead and cames to the past again.Now she has passed her powers to Edea and had no powers.But it means in the future she will had no powers and will receive it from herself.
It´s like throwing a boomerang to herself.
Thus Ellone will think this is the source of all the troubles with Edea and will not try to search further on the past(her intention is just to help her Matron).
In fact she has done it but saw Ulti´s castle and thinking it was on the future she tought to herself "I must had used my ability wrongly.I am seeing the future".
Then she saw the scene were Ulti passed her powers to Edea and concluded it was the further past.
Looking into Ulti´s past she would saw the Ragnarok(Time machine) bringing Ulti´s aboard it to Earth along with the other Propagators.

TO BE CONTINUED.
I am important things to do now.Will come back later.

The fact that there are White SeeD lying dead on the ground mean it is the future or anywhere near there since there aren't SeeD in the past until Edea got the idea.

Heero Yuy NWZC

01-27-2006, 07:07 PM

ok FE i believe u.

Noj_R

01-27-2006, 10:45 PM

The fact that there are White SeeD lying dead on the ground mean it is the future or anywhere near there since there aren't SeeD in the past until Edea got the idea.

Exactly, but FE is ignoring my post ( #534 ), it clearly explains how Ulti CANNOT be from the past. Thank you Christmas for another nugget of ingame fact :D

Also FE you only answered one of my questions and that last post about Odine helping us has no ingame facts to even suggest such complex craziness.

I request answers to my other valid questions and some ingame evidence proving it.

Future Esthar

01-28-2006, 01:16 AM

The fact that there are White SeeD lying dead on the ground mean it is the future or anywhere near there since there aren't SeeD in the past until Edea got the idea.

1-How do you know they are White Seed?
2-White SeeD were part of the other children raised on the orphanage which were onboard Edea´s ship.
They were brought on the Ragnarok from their eras.
The adults we see on the present were descendents of the ones we see on the Castle.Therefore it´s not strange that they dress the same way.
Edea knows these patriarcs and their families but she just don´t remember.So she thinks the children were suns of persons she doesn´t know.
3-Nothing suggests they are called White Seed (already explained the dress thingy).

Heero Yuy NWZC

01-28-2006, 04:59 AM

it says in the game that they are white SeeD. squall realizes this.

Noj_R

01-28-2006, 07:16 AM

it says in the game that they are white SeeD. squall realizes this.

Exactly, Squall himself says they are dead white seeds, and I have already proven that Ultimecia is from the future NOT the past, so we can drop this whole Ulti from the past theory thing...

Christmas

01-28-2006, 08:50 AM

1-How do you know they are White Seed?

1- How do you know Squall is a propagator?

2-White SeeD were part of the other children raised on the orphanage which were onboard Edea´s ship.

2-Propagators were part of the inhabitants inside the Raganrok spaceship.

They were brought on the Ragnarok from their eras.

They weren't brought to Disneyland by whatever means.

The adults we see on the present were descendents of the ones we see on the Castle.Therefore it´s not strange that they dress the same way.

The propagators we see in the game attack whoever that they encounter. Therefore it's not strange that they attack Squall.

Edea knows these patriarcs and their families but she just don´t remember.So she thinks the children were suns of persons she doesn´t know.

Squall know these and kill all of them so no one will ever get hurt by them again.

3-Nothing suggests they are called White Seed (already explained the dress thingy).

3- Nothing suggests that Squall and the others are propagators (already explained the whatever thingy you are explaining.)

EDIT: Ya, they dressed like White SeeD, looks like White SeeD, died like White SeeD but they aren't White SeeD. Like how Squall look and dressed like Squall but is actually PuPu throughout the game.

Future Esthar

01-28-2006, 02:21 PM

Ya, they dressed like White SeeD, looks like White SeeD, died like White SeeD but they aren't White SeeD.

And were patriarcs of White Seed.That´s why they look similar.And we can not make the assumption that their clothes were made by Garden and were Seed clothes.
What if the clothes were made by themselves?Maybe ancient Centra civilization clothes?

Exactly, Squall himself says they are dead white seeds

And is this even proof of something?

Squall THINKS he is on the future.

and I have already proven that Ultimecia is from the future NOT the past, so we can drop this whole Ulti from the past theory thing...

No,you don´t.You just left unanswered questions(which I have yet to answer).

Christmas

01-28-2006, 03:20 PM

And were patriarcs of White Seed.That´s why they look similar.And we can not make the assumption that their clothes were made by Garden and were Seed clothes.
What if the clothes were made by themselves?Maybe ancient Centra civilization clothes?

You too cannot make the assumption that Squall isn't PuPu just because he dun dress or look like it. What if Squall is putting on a disguise? Maybe the ancient Centra people taught him to do so. So I hereby declare that Squall is actually PuPu in other words PuPu is the real and true hero of FF VIII.

Anyone that post after me support this theory.

Omnislash07

01-28-2006, 06:17 PM

Im in total agreement why cant you see it FE? Pupu is the true hero to FFVIII. In fact i bet that Pupu's race is at war with the Propogators and that is why Squall/Pupu was attacked on the Ragnarok. And all the monsters that you fight around the world are actually the decendants of mutated propogators. Wow its all so clear now, the stories hidden meaning of how there is a secret war between aliens raging on the FF8 planet. Christmas you are a genius for figuring out Squall's true identity.

Noj_R

01-28-2006, 08:10 PM

Actually, there is evidence. First Odine says she is from the future, we can assume he tells the truth. Second, Odine obviously doesnt have the JME yet or else Squall and co. would destroy it, so it must be made in the future. Third, Ellone only has the power to "teleport" BACK in time not FORWARD. In the whole game she never goes forward in time, thus Ultimecia must be reaching back for Ellone as she cant go forward since Ellone doesnt possess that power. If she did, it would have been shown undoubtedly. So, Ulti is undisputably from the future.

This is proof that Ulti is from the future. For your whole theory to work you are saying that Odine is manipulating people through the JME which is mimicing Ellone's power. But what you probably missed is that Ellone and the JME can only send a person's consciousness into another in the past and they CANNOT manipulate anything. All they can do is watch the past happen again. Squall and Ellone tried to change the past and they concluded that it cannot be done. So if Odine used the JME he would be unable to control anyone. Through this irrefutable evidence, we can conclude Ultimecia IS in fact from the future and Odine is telling the truth.

Your theory cannot work because of this ingame evidence.

And were patriarcs of White Seed.That´s why they look similar.And we can not make the assumption that their clothes were made by Garden and were Seed clothes.
What if the clothes were made by themselves?Maybe ancient Centra civilization clothes?

They live on the ship, not garden. They make their own clothes and they have almost no contact without outside influences. Were they not appointed by Garden to protect Ellone? Your statement is true except for the fact that they maybe Centra Clothes. No, they are an offshoot of garden to protect Ellone.

Squall THINKS he is on the future.

Squall isnt in the future, or the past, or the present. He is in Time Compression.

You just left unanswered questions(which I have yet to answer).

Yes, and I await the answers with great anticipation...:rolleyes2

Oh yes! And Christmas thank you for revealing the true identity of our hero Squall. Long Live PuPu!

Future Esthar

01-28-2006, 10:46 PM

This is proof that Ulti is from the future. For your whole theory to work you are saying that Odine is manipulating people through the JME which is mimicing Ellone's power. But what you probably missed is that Ellone and the JME can only send a person's consciousness into another in the past and they CANNOT manipulate anything. All they can do is watch the past happen again. Squall and Ellone tried to change the past and they concluded that it cannot be done. So if Odine used the JME he would be unable to control anyone.

But the doctor is lying.This is an obvious consequence of my theory.

"Odine:This is a secret to surprise you.It´s because of me.
I was possessing these sorceresses because I wanna take over the world.

Squall sets the alarm and a bunch of Esthar soldiers appears and puts Odine on jail"
GAME OVER.

Of course this is absurd.

Actually, there is evidence. First Odine says she is from the future, we can assume he tells the truth. Second, Odine obviously doesnt have the JME yet or else Squall and co. would destroy it, so it must be made in the future.

Same as above.

Third, Ellone only has the power to "teleport" BACK in time not FORWARD. In the whole game she never goes forward in time, thus Ultimecia must be reaching back for Ellone as she cant go forward since Ellone doesnt possess that power. If she did, it would have been shown undoubtedly. So, Ulti is undisputably from the future.

Prove to me Ulti even possess someone(she isn´t).
I already explained Ulti´s role on the game.
It is the doctor who possesses everyone.

No, they are an offshoot of garden to protect Ellone.

Where is this stated on the game?

Desert Wolf

01-28-2006, 11:35 PM

You too cannot make the assumption that Squall isn't PuPu just because he dun dress or look like it. What if Squall is putting on a disguise? Maybe the ancient Centra people taught him to do so. So I hereby declare that Squall is actually PuPu in other words PuPu is the real and true hero of FF VIII.

Anyone that post after me support this theory.

hmmmmm.That makes sence.So that means that if Pupu is actually Squall in descuise then Squall is possesing the fake Pupu.But since its a pointless thing for him to do he can only be under the influence of Dr.Odine.But if Dr.Odine is Hyne then that means that Zell is actually Squalls mother.So Zell wont let Squall into his room cause he'll see the baby pictures.

So that means Laguna isnt actually Squalls father.So if thats correct then FE can only be Squalls father but had to return to the past where he posts from now so thats why theres no mention of this in the game.Whos with me?

Zanius

01-28-2006, 11:53 PM

hmmmmm.That makes sence.So that means that if Pupu is actually Squall in descuise then Squall is possesing the fake Pupu.But since its a pointless thing for him to do he can only be under the influence of Dr.Odine.But if Dr.Odine is Hyne then that means that Zell is actually Squalls mother.So Zell wont let Squall into his room cause he'll see the baby pictures.

Zell's dirty secrets... :rolleyes2 it means that Zell (it’s Zellia?!)... oh Lord... :eek:

So that means Laguna isnt actually Squalls father.So if thats correct then FE can only be Squalls father but had to return to the past where he posts from now so thats why theres no mention of this in the game.Whos with me?

Use the Balamb Garden, or the Ragnarock to return to the past, they are time machines...
Oh man...

I can't see the relationship with the Pupu and the Propogators with our main characters... can someone explain me... :confused:

Desert Wolf

01-28-2006, 11:56 PM

Yes but if your wondering how the Ragnarok can travel time then here it is.Its simple it need Hotdogs!It needs them for fuel.It was hotdogs that took Zell/Zellia's love away.Hence his hatred of them.Thats why he want to eat all the hotdogs in the world!

Future Esthar

01-29-2006, 02:38 PM

You are kidding but The hotdogs can really contain part of the fuel for the time machines.

Neco Arc

01-29-2006, 02:56 PM

its bread

Christmas

01-29-2006, 04:21 PM

But the doctor is lying.This is an obvious consequence of my theory.

"Odine:This is a secret to surprise you.It´s because of me.
I was possessing these sorceresses because I wanna take over the world.

Squall sets the alarm and a bunch of Esthar soldiers appears and puts Odine on jail"
GAME OVER.

Of course this is absurd.

Can I assume that you are lying too? :confused:

Prove to me Ulti even possess someone(she isn´t).
I already explained Ulti´s role on the game.
It is the doctor who possesses everyone.

But you said your theory dun need proof. Why should we bother to prove to you then. :(

Where is this stated on the game?

Here, my dear friend. have a look. Even though they may all be lying. Bad liars.:mad2:

White SeeD: Headmaster, we've come for Ellone. It's too dangerous here
now.

One thing to note that they are entrusted by Edea and Cid before she goes crazy to protect Ellone.

White SeeD: We are SeeDs! This is Edea's ship. We are Sorceress Edea's
SeeD!

It was mentioned by Laguna in the game.

Laguna: I wanted to! But I had my reasons. I found out about this afterwards,
but.. the reason why Ellone had to leave the orphanage was because of her
special power. Doc Odine wanted to do research on Ellone's special power. he
looked for her everywhere. The owners of the orphanage were Edea and Cid
Kramer. You know them better than I do. The Kramers took Elle out of the
orphanage to protect her. They prepared a big ship to accommodate her...After
a while the ship turned into another orphanage and Elle looked after all the
kids...She was on that ship for ten years."

PS: And the fact that you are posting here support that Squall is actually PuPu. I appreciate your sincerest support my dear friend, thank you so much. You had made such a big differences to this world and yourself by believing in Squall is PuPu.

Zanius

01-29-2006, 04:24 PM

PS: And the fact that you are posting here support that Squall is actually PuPu.

Can you explain this PuPu thing? What's the connection with Squall? :confused:

I realized something some minutes ago.
I found what is the magic the sorceresses allways pass to each other

Which is?

Christmas

01-29-2006, 04:37 PM

Can you explain this PuPu thing? What's the connection with Squall? :confused:

First,you must unlearn what you have learned.

Zanius

01-29-2006, 04:39 PM

First,you must unlearn what you have learned.

In other words, the FF8 is all a BIG lie! :mad2:

Christmas

01-29-2006, 04:48 PM

In other words, the FF8 is all a BIG lie! :mad2:

Only to Future Esthar. Seriously.

Zanius

01-29-2006, 04:53 PM

Only to Future Esthar. Seriously.

Well I know who are PuPu and the Propagator... but I don't know the relationship with our main characters! :confused:

Christmas

01-29-2006, 05:25 PM

Well I know who are PuPu and the Propagator... but I don't know the relationship with our main characters! :confused:

The characters in the game lied about their relationship. Pretty much like Future Esthar's theories on WOTC...blah blah.

Zanius

01-29-2006, 05:32 PM

The characters in the game lied about their relationship. Pretty much like Future Esthar's theories on WOTC...blah blah.

Now that makes sense... since Squall IS a PuPu, then he can not use the Lionheart because I believe the sword is too big and too heavy for him...

And Zell has no other choice then use the hot dogs as a fuel and to control the Garden to run away the fast as possible...

Christmas

01-29-2006, 05:39 PM

Now that makes sense... since Squall IS a PuPu, then he can not use the Lionheart because I believe the sword is too big and too heavy for him...

PuPu can use Lionheart too. Never determine someone strength based on its size.

Zanius

01-29-2006, 05:41 PM

PuPu can use Lionheart too. Never determine someone strength based its size.

Have any proof?

Christmas

01-29-2006, 05:44 PM

My theory need no proof but they fit in the game well. (http://forums.eyesonff.com/member.php?u=12146) :bigsmile:

Zanius

01-29-2006, 05:47 PM

My theory need no proof but they fit in the game well. (http://forums.eyesonff.com/member.php?u=12146) :bigsmile:

Nice one Christmas! I like you already! The answer is there somehow... :p

Noj_R

01-29-2006, 10:13 PM

Prove to me Ulti even possess someone(she isn´t).
Hmmm...
1. You talk to Edea, and she tells you Ultimecia possessed her.
2. When you are in the escape pod after Adel is set loose, Ellone sends you back to Galbadia Garden after you have defeated Edea for the second time, You see Ultimecia there while she is possessing Rinoa.
3. Dr. Odine tells you Ultimecia is possessing people. ( and no, there is no reason Odine would lie )

It is the doctor who possesses everyone.
The doctor cannot be possessing people. How is he doing it? JME? He cant, Ellone CANNOT control people, they CAN ONLY watch. Watching is completely different than controlling. The JME can only send consciousnesses to another in the past, but they cannot control the person's actions. Like I said before, Squall and Ellone concluded this in the escape pod...

And Heero said earlier ( post #92 ) in your " Evangelical view on the occult thread ",

but he ( Dr. Odine ) wouldn't be able to hold so many ppl in one place just by possessing one at a time and switching targets every second. he wouldn't be able to possess them all long enough to get them anywhere!
And you said ( post #93 ),

Alright,you got me there,you are right.
You said it yourself Even if Odine used some " method " to possess people. He couldnt hold so many people in one place, it would be impossible for one man to possess and manipulate tons of people at once.

Where is this stated on the game?
This was said in reference to me stating the White Seeds job was to protect Ellone. Christmas gave ingame proof ( post #557 ) stating that the White Seeds were indeed trained to protect Ellone.

You cannot disprove any of this proof by giving some lame excuse like, " they are lying! I swear! ". No, that does not hold up at all. FE, when someone says something in the game that doesnt fit your theory, it does not mean they are lying. Eventually, you need to realize that your theories may not be true and everyone is indeed telling the truth.

Heero Yuy NWZC

01-30-2006, 04:46 PM

Great Job while i was gone Noj_R, u have provided excellent proof and used ur resources(posts and ingame info) very well. :D i have nothing to say since there is nothing to add.

Noj_R

01-30-2006, 09:41 PM

Great Job while i was gone Noj_R, u have provided excellent proof and used ur resources(posts and ingame info) very well. :D i have nothing to say since there is nothing to add.

Why, thank you sir. :D

Heero Yuy NWZC

01-30-2006, 09:49 PM

no, thank u. i believe that this discussion has been resolved unless if FE has something to say when he gets back. (FYI: he most likely will):D

Noj_R

01-30-2006, 10:46 PM

no, thank u. i believe that this discussion has been resolved unless if FE has something to say when he gets back. (FYI: he most likely will):D

No doubt in my mind...:rolleyes2

Zanius

01-30-2006, 11:53 PM

I wonder what Future Esthar has to say about that...

By the way, nice job Noj_R!

Future Esthar

02-02-2006, 04:34 PM

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-02-2006, 04:52 PM

Odine is possessing a person at a time.
why and how? JME would only let u view the past(if it exists). in squall's dream and all the other dreams the characters aren't controlling laguna and company. u are so that the story will go on(and because if u were only viewing it and not doing anything then it would be boring)

Edea has forget some things because of Alexander.
no kidding, but then she starts to remember again. also, she doesn't remember what she has been doing for a period of time showing that their was a break in memory ever since Ulti possessed her.

Cyborg Elle is mixing Squall´s mind.
if there is one, it wouldn't be able to alter minds. nothing in FFVIII can.

JME can´t possess?again, no it can't.

So how Ulti changed the pass then.
she didn't. she viewed the past(if she can) and then when she saw a person that would be a good candidate to possess she possessed them.

By the way it seems you hadn´t activated the secret Winhill event during Squall´s dream.
whatever it is, that doesn't mean a thing.

Cyber Ellone is therefore lying showing that she is not the true one.
why? what would be the prupose? that is another one of ur theories here.

Noj_R

02-02-2006, 05:18 PM

Ryushikaze

02-02-2006, 07:48 PM

Odine is possessing a person at a time.
Edea has forget some things because of Alexander.
Cyborg Elle is mixing Squall´s mind.
JME can´t possess?
So how Ulti changed the pass then.
By the way it seems you hadn´t activated the secret Winhill event during Squall´s dream.
Cyber Ellone is therefore lying showing that she is not the true one.

ScreenshotMan will help you soon.

While I'm new here, I have taken the time to read up on Future's history at the board, so forgive me for my presumption of just jumping in here, but...

I'd like to introduce Future Esthar to a few basic ideas. One is the burden of proof. If you forward a theory, then the onus is upon YOU to support it, not upon anyone else to disprove it. If your theory cannot be supported, it fails by defaut.

Then there's Parsimony: Put simply, the less hoops you need to jump through for a theory to work, the better, especially if it is competing with a theory that has just as much validity.

Future, you must PROVIDE EVIDENCE that Ellone is a cyborg. You must PROVIDE EVIDENCE that what you say is possible, to the point that it is not conflicting with the rules of parsimony (IE: in such a way that there is not a much simpler explanation for what is observed). Lastly, you must define this theory in such a way that it can actually be verified or debunked. THEN you will have a theory that is worth considering.

Evidence, sensibility, and falsifiability. Get these three, and your ideas will be worth consideration as 'theories'

Sir Bahamut

02-02-2006, 08:12 PM

The fact that your new shows in that you're giving Future the same speech so many people have given him before.

Future has been around for ages, and not once has he showed any kind of capacity for logical reasoning, nor any signs of realising the ridiculous nature of his "theories".

So, to sum up, I wonder why ANY of you bother :rolleyes2

Ryushikaze

02-02-2006, 09:04 PM

Why bother? Boredom, I guess. Future is exceedingly set in his views from what I have read, and it's always good to argue with someone like that on occasion to keep in practice.

That, and perhaps the hope that through repeated beating of certain facts into his skull, some of them might eventually osmose in.

Future Esthar

02-02-2006, 09:28 PM

Future has been around for ages, and not once has he showed any kind of capacity for logical reasoning, nor any signs of realising the ridiculous nature of his "theories".

You weren´t able yourself to debunk any of them so you don´t have the autority to insult them.

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-02-2006, 11:24 PM

FE, instead of quarreling with them how about u say something about my post (post #576)

Ryushikaze

02-03-2006, 02:37 AM

You weren´t able yourself to debunk any of them so you don´t have the autority to insult them.

And you weren't able to support any of your claims, and have frequently resorted to the most outlandish explanations to explain the simplest things, without a shred of proof. Simply put, there is no need to debunk such specious claims.
It's like claiming everyone in FF8 is actually less than three feet tall. The claim is absurd enough that it can be ignored unless it has some incredibly strong supporting evidence. It, like yours, does not.

Christmas

02-03-2006, 02:47 AM

Odine is possessing a person at a time.

PuPu is the one possessing them.

Edea has forget some things because of Alexander.

No she didn't like I got those ingame evidences in the previous post maybe 45437589347 pages before this one or in other thread.

PS: One thing to note is that she recovered all her memory after Ultimecia left her body.

Cyborg Elle is mixing Squall´s mind.

No. Squall's mind belong to PuPu.

JME can´t possess?

JME only send Ultimecia consciousness back to the past.

So how Ulti changed the pass then.

She changed nothing or she won't lose in the end.

By the way it seems you hadn´t activated the secret Winhill event during Squall´s dream.
Cyber Ellone is therefore lying showing that she is not the true one.

ScreenshotMan will help you soon.

Ya, ya, we await the screenshot.

Noj_R

02-03-2006, 04:06 AM

You weren´t able yourself to debunk any of them so you don´t have the autority to insult them.

Hey! Lay off Sir Bahamut!

I debunked all your theories in post #569. Did you read it? For your convenience FE, I have provided ingame evidence and board posts disproving your theories. If you havent read it, I suggest you do...

Christmas

02-03-2006, 04:15 AM

You weren´t able yourself to debunk any of them so you don´t have the autority to insult them.

NOR DO YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO SAID YOUR THEORIES ARE THE TRUTH EITHER MY DEAR FUTURE ESTHAR.

PS: TYPE IN CAPS A DAY MADE THE DOCTOR ROT AWAY.

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-03-2006, 05:02 AM

it looks like our dear Future Esthar has taken a sick day for now. I will wait for his return. :D

SquallsAngel

02-03-2006, 06:55 AM

o.O This thread has made me see Jesus eyes (I love you dane!!!:love: )

Becca

Disclaimer, the follwing may be considered offensive to some. I however find it funny =P

"Grandad you cannot contain the white supreamacist power structure WITH CHEESE!!!"

Future Esthar

02-17-2006, 01:56 AM

I just wanna to say that if I was able to make logical assumptions to debunk your "solid evidences" it´s because they were not solid evidences at all.If they were I would not be able to do that.That´s in the very definition of what a "solid evidence" is.
It dindn´t matter if it was an unproved assumption as long as it is logical.

Trumpet Thief

02-17-2006, 02:20 AM

i have questions.

how does this affect anything? is it just a random lil thing that you think you figured out even though it probably doesn't say anything at all? i don't understand where youre going with this but it better not be another messed up insane stupid theory that EVERYBODY is going to hate you AGAIN for.

chaos: Agreed, I don't see the point.

Rubedo: If Final Fantasy VIII did "was" basically in the same world as ours, then I suppose this would have some merit. But if it's in an alternate world, who really cares? Hell it could've been in year 230 but we'd know that it doesn't matter because it's high-tech nonetheless. :)

Prancing Mad

02-17-2006, 03:02 AM

"This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friends
Somebody started typing it not knowing what it was..."

Come on help me out guys! lol

Trumpet Thief

02-17-2006, 03:34 AM

Rubedo: And they'll continue typing it forever just because this is the thread that never ends! Yes it goes on and on my friends!

chaos: I was really surprised that this thread grew to it's 20th page. :eek:

Noj_R

02-17-2006, 04:50 AM

Ryushikaze

02-17-2006, 05:57 AM

Future Esthar

02-17-2006, 09:10 PM

*__*)

02-17-2006, 10:13 PM

Future Esthar

02-17-2006, 10:16 PM

Like in the clock tower,huh?

Ryushikaze

02-18-2006, 07:57 AM

Somebody said I had.

FE, you never cease to amaze me. I dont know how anyone could disregard such cold hard evidence and facts as I have provided, and then make assumptions to negate them all...

Sometimes I wonder why I bother...

That´s why I posted it

I catch a cold Noj_R.
But had to end FF8 yet.

1. Sarcasm. Learn what it is. He was expressing exhasperation at your ill chosen method, not affirming it's validity.

2. At no point does that quote say LOGICAL. Your assumption has as much merit as assuming that Rinoa is actually a 37 year old black man named Steve.

Noj_R

02-18-2006, 08:27 AM

Again, Square is not dumb. They know their fans like to nitpick and overthink the details, so they do their best to make sure to include all sorts of stuff like this. It's certainly not there without intelligence.
http://gotpicturesonline.com/families/sith/photogalleries/16812/img1.JPEG
the C looked a little fragmented, maybe due to weathering.

The "i" ( l ) is fragmented it seems.

http://gotpicturesonline.com/families/sith/photogalleries/16814/img1.JPEG

Oddly enough, Raine could be 34 when she died according to both of those.

Roman numerals are found in other places too in ffviii.

She could be, but the whole concept of figuring her age out doesnt matter in the grand theme of the game.

And no, I think Square put the numbers there for a fill in. There is no need to know the date FF8 occured, nor does it matter. I doubt Square was thinking all this stuff up to make us stay awake at night in bed thinking, " ...Gee, that little rust spot on the stall in Balamb Garden's 3rd floor restroom must have a hidden meaning..." No, Square is human and has a budget and they have deadlines. They have way more important things to do than insert stuff, soley for our little fanboy eyes to see, so we can argue over it...

Future Esthar

02-18-2006, 12:47 PM

Ryushikaze.my assumptions were logical.Logical don´t means proved(as I already explained but you don´t read).Just logical.If you think they weren´t show it to me.That would be easy and possible.

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-18-2006, 05:49 PM

dude, FE is back! :D how's it goin man? It has been a while since I've seen you. Missed you dude. what's with the roman numerals? Don't you guys know that Square didn't make an explanation for everything? :tongue:

Ryushikaze

02-18-2006, 06:14 PM

Ryushikaze.my assumptions were logical.Logical don´t means proved(as I already explained but you don´t read).Just logical.If you think they weren´t show it to me.That would be easy and possible.

Your assumptions employ the grand deciever and extraneous, inevidenced- heck let's not bandy words MADE UP- elements to make them fit. Any time someone points out a flaw you make up something else to try and defend it. In short, you're trying to fit the evidence to fit your position, not the position to fit the evidence, and that is the height of irrationality.

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-18-2006, 06:18 PM

alright, Ryu, we have already had a talk with him about this and he knows. Some of the things he said can be logical or even questionable, but yes he does seem to make more theories to testify his first. With that said(again) pls don't bag on FE. :D

Omnislash07

02-18-2006, 06:29 PM

i thought we were just going to let this thread die and everyone involved forget it ever happened... at least thats what i was planning on until someone posted in it again

*note to self "unsubscribe from all FE or FE related threads"

Ryushikaze everything you say has already probably been said in other parts of this thread or in other threads, but it doesnt matter cause FE wont listen. he just keeps going on and on making up more stuff to fit his little FF8 dream world

Future Esthar

02-19-2006, 10:57 PM

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/Futuresthar/scanningZell.jpg

Here you have.

Squall is running from the robot but the photograph shows Zell´s running(he is already on the boat).
Strange phenomena like this only on Pravda.ru

Lychon

02-19-2006, 11:00 PM

Future Esthar

02-19-2006, 11:27 PM

When Squall rans from the huge robot on the Dollet beach.

Lychon

02-19-2006, 11:43 PM

When Squall rans from the huge robot on the Dollet beach.

Yes, I know the scene. I was just wondering if it was really from the game or if it was edited. But I think you already answered that anyways :D

-LYCHON

Ryushikaze

02-19-2006, 11:53 PM

Squall wears pants. Zell wears shorts. That figure is wearing pants. That is not Zell. It's Squall in Lo-res Grayscale.

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-20-2006, 06:01 AM

Yeah, the screenshot was made at a bad time. It is Squall I have seen that cutscene many times and I know it is Squall. that poorly made screenshot makes you think otherwise. anyways, welcome back FE! :D

Future Esthar

02-20-2006, 01:33 PM

Óf course.Zell´s counsciousness is inside Squall.

During this scene the picture suddenly change to Squall at some time.
Go play it if you don´t believe me.

Or wait until I post another screenshot.

Ryushikaze

02-20-2006, 08:33 PM

Considering that the resolution is so bad that Squall's hand isn't even visible and his entire left shoulder is missing, and that the boy actually does have quite lightly colored highlights in the right light, there is no reason at all to believe that that image depicts Zell.

IN FACT...

I have located a much better resolution shot.

http://www.ffshrine.org/ff8/fmvshots-disc1/06-xatm092/00011.jpg

Note the sleeves, which Zell is not wearing on his uniform. Also note the distinct lack of Zell's prominent headcrest, which would extend well above his head.

In short- NOT ZELL.

Future Esthar

02-20-2006, 11:40 PM

Did you read what I wrote?
I said the machine is taking a radiography of Zell inside Squall.
Black hair is not depicted white on black-and-white pictures.
I can take a screenshot similar to that were Squall appears.
Go see the scene and note the sudden change.

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-21-2006, 12:19 AM

alright FE, have you ever looked through a camera in night shot? black can turn white. this is most likely the same principle to that. as we all know, it was night when they went Squall's group went up to the comm. tower. therefore, it was night when they fought Elnoyle and afterwards when they fought the giant robot spider. for the spider to see clearly, it must have had night vision on. so when it was dawn and the sun was rising during that cut scene, the night vision of the robot spider's eyes made Squall's hair significantly brighter.

Noj_R

02-21-2006, 03:57 AM

Im at the Dollet tower part in the game. I will solve this once and for all...Bwahaha!

EDIT: I got the screenshots. I took them them using the ePSXe emulator and the original discs. Notice Squall never changes the whole time, and anyone can watch this scene in the game as it is indeed in there. I will give short descriptions pertaining to the photos.

In the first photo, Squall ( yes, Squall ) is running towards the ship
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e231/Noj_R/BeforeScan2.jpg

In the second photo, Squall is encompassed by the robot's targeting recticule, and is scanned ( or something ). Yet Squall's appearance remains the same.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e231/Noj_R/SquallScanned2.jpg

In the third photo, This time the seed ship is targeted with the recticule and is scanned. Squall is blocked by the targeting recticule but again, he and the ship's appearance remain the same...interesting...
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e231/Noj_R/ShipScanned2.jpg

Squall finally reaches the ship and the robot is blasted by Quistis in the next scene, Squall's appearance remains the same.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e231/Noj_R/AfterScan2.jpg

Other notes of interest:
Did you read what I wrote?
I said the machine is taking a radiography of Zell inside Squall.
Black hair is not depicted white on black-and-white pictures.
I can take a screenshot similar to that were Squall appears.
Go see the scene and note the sudden change.

1.) The “sudden change”, is the robot putting his targeting recticule on Squall and then the ship, whether it is targeting or scanning, Squall’s appearance NEVER changes, he looks like Squall the whole time.

2.) Black hair? Dude, Squall has BROWN hair, and it is light brown hair too. Light Brown would show up as gray in the picture, which it does.

3.) Zell's sleeves are rolled up, Squalls are always down. And Squall sleeves are down in the photos.

4.) Ryushikaze pointed this out, Zell’s headcrest is missing the whole time.

Conclusion: It is Squall running along the beach. There is no hint of Zell possessing him. Squall and the ship are temporarily targeted with the robot’s targeting recticule and are probably scanned ( though no one can truly know this ). It is possible the “scanning” was simply the robot targeting for attack. Anyone who wants to view the cut scene can play the game up to this point and view the evidence for themselves.

But even so, there is not enough evidence and the theory must be dismissed as false.

Ryushikaze

02-21-2006, 05:00 AM

Firstly, Squall's hair is brown with very light brown, possibly sandy blonde highlights. NOT black.

Nextly, high intensity light on low light film (and other such low light techs) can cause brown hair and other shades that might appear 'dark' under normal light to become much brighter. The fact that Squall's hair has very light highlights VISIBLE elsewhen in this scene makes your 'radiography' less and less plausible and more and more illogical by the second.

u2girl1966

02-21-2006, 05:05 AM

Y'all think WAY too much!

And I've always assumed that the above screenshot was Squall. Just my two cents...

Noj_R

02-21-2006, 05:18 AM

Did you guys see my screenshot evidence, I disprove once again. Like in mythbusters,

...this theory is pwned! :p

Ramza Beoulve

02-21-2006, 05:22 AM

Noj_R

02-21-2006, 05:30 AM

Well, I don't want to complain, but I think the same than Noj_R, are Scan effects, if you see a black hair in the light, it gets a shine effect, looking like gray or something similar, that happens to with brown hair, it's only the robot's scan, even the light effects gets in that type scans, you can try it to, take a camera, get a photo of black-haired people in the day, and see the shine in their hair

Exactly, Squall has gray hair in all the phots except the last one where the sun really shines bright on his hair. There is no evidence anywhere in the game even hinting to Zell possessing Squall. There isnt even evidence for propogators possession...I dont know where these weird theories come from...

FE, ever think about going into game development? I am :D We could make the best game together!

Ramza Beoulve

02-21-2006, 06:35 AM

Yeah! I would like that, both have the capacities to make a good plot jajaja

WarriorValis

02-21-2006, 02:30 PM

This has probably been already pointed out by people but... Has anyone else noticed that in the Dollet FMV, when "Squall" is running away from the machine, in the machine's P.O.V., that it actually appears to be Zell? I don't have an image, but after seeing that same FMV several times, it's Zell, not Squall, being chased.

Key Points:
- Squall's uniform has long sleeves, the sleeves in the FMV are short, like Zell's shown when he's motioning for Squall to hurry.
- Squall's hairstyle is different than Zell's. Zell's points upward like what is shown in the FMV, not how Squall's hair is shown.
- You can sort of see the tattoos on the face.

Future Esthar

02-21-2006, 02:58 PM

I have RPGmaker XP.
But it is the time limit version.

I had also a level editor for Tomb Raider.
Go to www.tombraiderforums.net and invite Brooklin to create a project with you.

I had (some) experience so I can help you(you have to download the editor of course).

I would be very happen(don´t forget to tell me your username).
You are probably kidding but I am not.

Dear friends,on the second photo we can see Zell inside of Squall.Squall is taller than Zell.Don´t try to fool me.I played the game many times and know the back of Zell´s head very well.
I know Squall has a coat with a back-head dress.
But he don´t use it on this mission.
Believe-me.This robot was developed by Deling with the help of his engineers.
And we know who VinZer DElINg is,don´t we?
Which makes no surprise that the robot is advanced enough to make a picture after analysing the electric current going through Squall´s head and then add it to Squall´s picture.
By the way,Zell is using long pants on this mission as opposed to what you said.

Future Esthar

02-21-2006, 03:06 PM

It is good to know that I am not the only one.
By the way,what is a "Sleeve"(I am not American so I don´t know)?

Ryushikaze

02-21-2006, 03:35 PM

Sleeves are still long, Not Zell's hair (the ultra prominent crest is missing), no tattoos.

Ryushikaze

02-21-2006, 03:41 PM

Dear friends,on the second photo we can see Zell inside of Squall.Squall is taller than Zell.Don´t try to fool me.I played the game many times and know the back of Zell´s head very well.

I can't be the only one who that sounds wrong to. In any case, that's not Zell's head.

I know Squall has a coat with a back-head dress.
But he don´t use it on this mission.

Relevance?

Believe-me.This robot was developed by Deling with the help of his engineers.
And we know who VinZer DElINg is,don´t we?

You mean 'we all know who FE thinks Vinz is.'

Which makes no surprise that the robot is advanced enough to make a picture after analysing the electric current going through Squall´s head and then add it to Squall´s picture.

Do you even realize how stupid and psuedosciency that sounds?

By the way,Zell is using long pants on this mission as opposed to what you said.

I made an error. My debunk was not reliant on this one claim. You're still up the creek without a paddle as far as this little postulate of yours goes since he's wearing short sleeves. Squall isn't. It is Squall in the FMV.

Such Great Heights

02-21-2006, 03:42 PM

It is good to know that I am not the only one.
By the way,what is a "Sleeve"(I am not American so I don´t know)?

Where your arms are in shirts and jackets.

I can't say that I ever noticed that.

Future Esthar

02-21-2006, 04:18 PM

Do you even realize how stupid and psuedosciency that sounds?

No.Don´t you know how a medical TAC works?
The robot is advanced enough to study personality using electric currents (counsciousness),associate it with DNA and then create a picture of Zell based on Zell´s genoma.

Bart's Friend Milhouse

02-21-2006, 04:18 PM

i've done that bit about 12 times and I've never realised it

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-21-2006, 04:20 PM

didn't you anything about the black-white, grayscale thing? also, we have played this game many times as well and we have beaten it before you did so I think we have played it enough to know who's who also. the fact still remains that you are using your Vinzer Deling theory to back up this theory.

Future Esthar

02-21-2006, 04:38 PM

I realized it the first time.

Lost Number

02-21-2006, 04:40 PM

I noticed that. I managed to get my disc to freeze just at that point, gave me a great view.

Future Esthar

02-21-2006, 04:49 PM

No.That´s not the case.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/Futuresthar/scanningZellbettres2.jpg

I think on this picture is easier to see that it is Zell´s back.I know it well.
I finished the game many times.
The shape is not of Squall´s hair.
If you look at Noj_R second picture you will see that there really are two hair colors on the same picture.One brown from Squall which appears over another white from Zell.And there is not a smoot transition between them.
This means that the robot is scanning Zell´s counsciousness inside Squall.
A camera can not take a single color and split it in two very different ones.

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-21-2006, 04:50 PM

hello? have you noticed that the piece of Zell's hair that is suppoed to be sticking up is not shown? it would be obvious to see but since that is not Zell, it is not there.

Ryushikaze

02-21-2006, 07:32 PM

No.Don´t you know how a medical TAC works?

Not at range, not while moving, and it doesn't scan brainwaves.

The robot is advanced enough to study personality using electric currents (counsciousness),associate it with DNA and then create a picture of Zell based on Zell´s genoma.

Whee! Psuedoscience! ADVANCED! So, basically, you're saying it can read minds via electrical signals, make a genetic match based on these electrical signals (which assumes a constant set of signals for each set of DNA, which is complete bull), and then make an image on these signals.
You fail at parsimony.

I think on this picture is easier to see that it is Zell´s back.I know it well.
I finished the game many times.

Apparently not enough to distinguish between characters.

The shape is not of Squall´s hair.

Closer to Squall than Zell.

If you look at Noj_R second picture you will see that there really are two hair colors on the same picture.One brown from Squall which appears over another white from Zell.And there is not a smoot transition between them.

Say it with me now- HIGHLIGHT. Squall's hair has very bright, nigh blonde HIGHLIGHTS. That picture is totally consistent with HIGHLIGHTS.

This means that the robot is scanning Zell´s counsciousness inside Squall.

Or it's Squall's highlights. Or it's a camera error. Only you would automatically jump to 'mind scanning'

A camera can not take a single color and split it in two very different ones.

You assume it is a single color. However, the light is causing Squall's highlights to appear, meaning it is NOT a single color.

McLovin'

02-21-2006, 07:32 PM

Wow.

Ramza Beoulve

02-21-2006, 08:00 PM

And, if you consider the type of scan it uses, it gets a contrast effect from the image to get a perfect image of the specified object, and it looks like a surrounding light, and the photo it's showing WERE the scan (surrounding light) started to get around Squall

And also you say Squall's hair is one color, in ALL the game Squall's hair gets a shine effect.

In this image, you see Squall's hair shine because of light, now put it in black and white effects, and if you notice, it gets shining gray.

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/6866/squalls120rc.jpg
http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/7720/squallisbleeding0lj.jpg

and the talk was because the game's year ubication , does'nt it?

SeeDRankLou

02-21-2006, 09:11 PM

The imaging in the video you are looking at is in black and white, so it's not going to be as clear as you might hope. If you have ever run with long sleeves, the sleeves sometimes go up a little on your arm when you pull your arm back, which is you you might be seeing. But I see sleeves:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/maddylouis/EoFF/sleeves.jpg

And in this picture, you can see Squall's sleeves and a better view of the silhouette of his hair, which in that lighting is too thick in the back to be Zell's:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/maddylouis/EoFF/sleevesandhair.jpg

And in this picture, which is a little closer up, you can see Squall's sleeves again, a lack of hair sticking up, and you can also see the two SeeD cadets who are already in the ship, one with hair sticking way up:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/maddylouis/EoFF/sleevesandcadets.jpg

Now as for the hair sticking up, look at Squall's hair, which does stick up a little. Note that Squall is running, so his hair is bouncing up and down:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/maddylouis/EoFF/squallhair.jpg

Now look at Zell's hair. That is considerably taller than Squall's hair, even if it bounces up. So yes, you do see the hair sticking up a little in the video, but never this much:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/maddylouis/EoFF/zellhair.jpg

I'm not conviced that is Zell. Yes, the hair is a little light, but it's a black and white video, that happens. So, as with all the other videos in FFVIII, I say this one is done accurately and well.

Such Great Heights

02-21-2006, 09:20 PM

The whole FMV can be found here. (http://bluelaguna.net/fmvinfo/ff8/105.php) It's a 7MB .avi file.

Lou-Use the tan "Insert Picture" button to insert pictures. But, that's an awful lot of shots, so for everyone's eyes, would you just mind leaving them as links?

Llednar Twem

02-21-2006, 09:22 PM

You have to put [IMG]

SeeDRankLou

02-21-2006, 09:28 PM

You have to put [IMG]
I'm doing that, I type in (without the spaces) [ IMG] *link* [/ IMG] and it just prints the link.

Edit: Ok, I guess on this forum the link has to end with .jpg or something like that in order to work, so thanks. And Such Great Heights, you don't HAVE to use the insert picture button, you just need the VBB code. If you press the insert picture button, it just puts the code there for you. It's no different than if you type it in yourself.

Such Great Heights

02-21-2006, 09:35 PM

I'm doing that, I type in (without the spaces) [ IMG] *link* [/ IMG] and it just prints the link.

You HAVE to use the insert picture button.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v138/fragility_lily/Squall_header.jpg

See? All I did was click on the insert picture button, paste my URL and click OK!

Noj_R

02-21-2006, 09:50 PM

Virtually undistinguishable between the two hair colors in B/W ( Squall's is a little darker in shadows ). And since Squall was the only one running, it must be Squall, there is no time where Squall's appearance changes, and there is no evidence that Zell can possess people.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e231/Noj_R/squalls120rc1.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e231/Noj_R/zell1.jpg

The theory is false...

Future Esthar

02-21-2006, 10:08 PM

Believe-me.A shining effect would not produce that.It would produce a smooth transition.Squall looks like a punk on that photo.

Zell´s hair stick but in the front,not in the back.
And in the scene the character seems to be a littlle curved down.

SeeDRankLou

02-21-2006, 10:21 PM

But you could see if sticking up it you were looking at him from the back.

Noj_R

02-21-2006, 10:42 PM

? I dont get it, whats a punk have to do with a lighting effect in a B/W photo?

What evidence do you have that proves Zell can possess people, anyway?

Bart's Friend Milhouse

02-21-2006, 10:46 PM

What evidence do you have that proves Zell can possess people, anyway?

This is the craziest thing I've heard this week, not the comment but what it is addressing. This is going far too deep but if there is some really impressive explanation I'd be happy to hear it

rubah

02-21-2006, 10:55 PM

Lol I made an image too, before reading all this thread;]

http://www.snowy-day.net/stuff/squalldriving.png

Also:

this is not ff7, The graphics in this game are slightly more realistic, allow for *sharp* contrasts.

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-21-2006, 11:28 PM

yes Zell's hair sticks in the front, but it is high enough to see from the back. what you mean by curved down?

Future Esthar

02-21-2006, 11:43 PM

You misunderstood me.I am not saying it isn´t Squall.I am saying that the robot is scanning Zell inside Squall.
By curved down I mean that the upper part of the character(over the legs) is down.
I had not words to explain.

Such Great Heights

02-22-2006, 12:04 AM

Noj_R

02-22-2006, 12:28 AM

This is the craziest thing I've heard this week, not the comment but what it is addressing. This is going far too deep but if there is some really impressive explanation I'd be happy to hear it

Actually, this is one of the craziest things Ive heard all year. The robot is targeting Squall AND THE SHIP. Why is the robot scanning the ship? Is it being possessed by Selphie too and wants to say hi?

SeeDRankLou

02-22-2006, 12:31 AM

Actually, this is one of the craziest things Ive heard all year. The robot is targeting Squall AND THE SHIP. Why is the robot scanning the ship? Is it being possessed by Selphie too and wants to say hi?
I can imagine that when the robot scans Squall, and then scans the ship, that it is "thinking" that the ship is Squall's destination. That's all that is.

Noj_R

02-22-2006, 12:35 AM

I can imagine that when the robot scans Squall, and then scans the ship, that it is "thinking" that the ship is Squall's destination. That's all that is.

Yeah, I know. Everyone whos played FF8 knows that, except FE...

Omnislash07

02-22-2006, 04:35 AM

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-22-2006, 05:03 AM

ummm, if someones possessed they can still move. anywho, we have already said multiple times that Zell has already made it to the Ship.

SeeDRankLou

02-22-2006, 06:21 AM

Yeah, I know. Everyone whos played FF8 knows that, except FE...
My bad, I didn't read a few posts before. I didn't realize that a mod merged another thread into this one, for some odd reason.

Noj_R

02-22-2006, 06:59 AM

This is so obvious that im suprised no one pointed it out yet but how the heck can Zell posses Squall when Zell just finished running to the ship himself? I mean if Zell were possessing Squall then he wouldnt be able to run to the ship because his concisnouswould be inside of Squall leaving his body comepetly imobile.

I pointed this out somewhere else in another thread ( or this one...I forget ). Anyway , FE said it was Quistis or something sustaining Zell or some other nonsense that is completely baseless. I cant remember all of his circular logic, so Im sorry I cannot quote what was said exactly...

Future Esthar

02-22-2006, 02:53 PM

The robot is targeting Squall AND THE SHIP. Why is the robot scanning the ship? Is it being possessed by Selphie too and wants to say hi?

This don´t refute the theory,anyway.

Anyway,we see Zell inside Squall on that picture.What better proof do you wanna,Noj_R?
You are the one using circular logic.You think it is crazy and don´t wanna to believe it so you try to fit what you see to what you think instead of the opposite.
We see Squall there and Zell inside him.That´s why we see two kinds of hair.It couldn´t be an highlight or shining because it would require a smooth transition.
So it didn´t matter the sleeves or any other thing.
Squall is taller than Zell and the hair subject is what matters.
This is becoming a subjective subject.

Skyblade

02-22-2006, 03:19 PM

This don´t refute the theory,anyway.

Anyway,we see Zell inside Squall on that picture.What better proof do you wanna,Noj_R?
You are the one using circular logic.You think it is crazy and don´t wanna to believe it so you try to fit what you see to what you think instead of the opposite.
We see Squall there and Zell inside him.That´s why we see two kinds of hair.It couldn´t be an highlight or shining because it would require a smooth transition.
So it didn´t matter the sleeves or any other thing.
Squall is taller than Zell and the hair subject is what matters.
This is becoming a subjective subject.

No, it is quite definitely you being incorrect. You'd think that getting told you're wrong by a few hundred other people would clue you in eventually...

Future Esthar

02-22-2006, 03:52 PM

There were two other members agreeing with me here.
As I said,this is a subjective question.
In the same way as some people like beans and others don´t some people recognize Zell and others not.
On subjective matters where people can´t had concrete proof it didn´t matter the opinion of the majority.
The very beggining of this thread is a good example.

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-22-2006, 04:20 PM

FE, you see you are wrong. You see this in the cutscene and think, "Hey, that looks like Zell a little. I wonder how that could be? I'll make a theory that could possibly explain this." Sounds like what you would say. Zell can't be inside Squall. His mind, his conscious, anything. First off, why would he do it? Also, if Zell was inside Squall possessing him or whatever you call it, then how come we see him moving his own body motioning Squall to come on(the hand gesture in the cutscene). This theory has no basis besides bad screnshots that don't even provide proof as they are very subjectable, even though all of us(or at least most of us) know that that is Squall, nothing else, nothing inside of him.

Such Great Heights

02-22-2006, 04:32 PM

The only way I could imagine Zell possesing Squall is if Zell were a Sorceress. Are you going to tell us now that Zell is a Sorceress?

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-22-2006, 04:46 PM

wouldn't he be considered a sorcerer?

Ramza Beoulve

02-22-2006, 05:50 PM

We see Squall there and Zell inside him.That´s why we see two kinds of hair.It couldn´t be an highlight or shining because it would require a smooth transition.

We don't see Zell in Squall, we see a robot scanning Squall's actual position and future destination, it is a laser scan, so the laser start usually in heads position to locate a person, and this laser is white to make the person have a contrast with the next world, it could have started in the middle of the back, but for some strange reason, it started at head.

And for the shining, we see smooth transition in ALL the game, in special in FMV

Such Great Heights

02-22-2006, 06:36 PM

wouldn't he be considered a sorcerer?

Possibly. But what do you want more, gender correctness, or Zell in drag?

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-22-2006, 07:17 PM

I would like some gender correctness pls. :D

Such Great Heights

02-22-2006, 07:51 PM

I would like some gender correctness pls. :D

Oh come on! You know you've dreamed about Zell in Quistis' outfit, whip and all.

Omnislash07

02-22-2006, 07:56 PM

ummm, if someones possessed they can still move. anywho, we have already said multiple times that Zell has already made it to the Ship.

you misunderstood me, i meant that Zell would be unable to move because his mind would be inside of Squall's body leaving Zell's body unable to move because there is no mind in his body to make him move (basically the same thing u said later on). sorry if my posts are confusing

This don´t refute the theory,anyway.

Anyway,we see Zell inside Squall on that picture.What better proof do you wanna,Noj_R?
You are the one using circular logic.You think it is crazy and don´t wanna to believe it so you try to fit what you see to what you think instead of the opposite.
We see Squall there and Zell inside him.That´s why we see two kinds of hair.It couldn´t be an highlight or shining because it would require a smooth transition.
So it didn´t matter the sleeves or any other thing.
Squall is taller than Zell and the hair subject is what matters.
This is becoming a subjective subject.

No u see Zell inside Squall and everyone else sees just Squall so that isnt proof. proof is something undeniable that everyone agrees on and cannot be disproven.

you say the hair is important but the sleeves are not... that makes no sense. if you are going to say that Zell's hair is shown in some scenes than other parts of his apperance would show up like his sleeves. also his height is hard to determine because Squall is running over uneven terrain so it may seem like he is getting taller and shorter as he goes over different land heights.

Future Esthar

02-22-2006, 09:48 PM

Hey, that looks like Zell a little.

Correction-A lot.
And I am sure that I am right.

Guys,let´s stop concentrate on the theory.
Let´s just concentrate in the subject of whether Zell is there or not.

also his height is hard to determine because Squall is running over uneven terrain so it may seem like he is getting taller and shorter as he goes over different land heights.

Zell is shorter than Squall.That´s easy to see on the game.

We don't see Zell in Squall, we see a robot scanning Squall's actual position and future destination, it is a laser scan, so the laser start usually in heads position to locate a person, and this laser is white to make the person have a contrast with the next world, it could have started in the middle of the back, but for some strange reason, it started at head.

Can´t a robot have more than one task at the same time?
For instance,to scan Squall and his destination and to take a radiography of who is inside Squall?

Omnislash07

02-22-2006, 09:55 PM

it is easy to tell who is taller or shorter when they are standing right next to each other but when looking at a blurry picture of one of them running away it is hard to judge exactly how tall the induvidual is so saying that it is one or the other based on height wont work

Future Esthar

02-22-2006, 10:17 PM

I only referred the height thing to show why we see Zell´s hair (White) below Squall´s hair(dark).

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-22-2006, 10:24 PM

It is not below, it stays at the same level. There is no hair lower than Squall's since Squall is the only one there. Also, why would they have a robot do a radiography? and if they did, it wouldn't do a radiography on an organic being, only mechanical ones. It scans to see what or if there is something there. It scans to know what the objects/targets are.

Noj_R

02-22-2006, 10:29 PM

The only way to porve this theory is to give examples of it happening elsewhere in the story. This cannot be a " one time " experience. What do you have to say, FE?

Future Esthar

02-22-2006, 10:30 PM

There is no hair lower than Squall's since Squall is the only one there.

I know what I see.You are using circular logic now.
There is no smooth transition between the hairs so it can´t be just brightness.

Also, why would they have a robot do a radiography?

As I said,let´s just concentrate on the scene and not on the theory.We will be back to the theory later.Partiality is necessary.

The only way to porve this theory is to give examples of it happening elsewhere in the story. This cannot be a " one time " experience. What do you have to say, FE?

Odine is researching certain phenomena.But he only need to research it a few times.

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-22-2006, 10:31 PM

Dude, this whole thing is about the theory. You can't just push it aside, that's bull. I see smooth transition in the scene and I can see clearly the objects that are there. You do not see any other hair in Squall's area but his own.

I will not be able to reply to anything until several hours after this post due to a b-ball practice I must attend and dinner. See you all in a few hours. :D

Noj_R

02-22-2006, 10:33 PM

See ya Heero. Well FE, about my point...

Future Esthar

02-22-2006, 10:36 PM

The earlier post was edited with the answer.

Noj_R

02-22-2006, 10:37 PM

So...No one else possesses anybody else the whole rest of the game ( excluding sorceresses, of course )?

Future Esthar

02-22-2006, 10:48 PM

Noj_R

02-22-2006, 10:56 PM

Of course they possess.But it isn´t scanned.
And Zell is not a sorceress.He is a knight.
Quistis knight.
Ellone´s ability is a property only a Propagator has.

You said the robot sees Zell possessing Squall because the robot used radiography to see him ( post #613 ).
Did you read what I wrote?
I said the machine is taking a radiography of Zell inside Squall.
But radiography is X-Ray...Which would show their skeletons, so why
do we see them normally? The robot is targetting Squall and his destination, and is simply calculating robotic things. Zell cannot be in Squall, because propogators cannot possess things and the above contradiction.

Future Esthar

02-22-2006, 11:06 PM

I used the word "radiography" to describe the mechanism the robot is using to detect Zell inside Squall.
It´s probably not the best word .

You had been misunderstood me.I have not been talking about the sudden light that appears around Squall and the ship.
I am saying that the robot detected Zell inside Squall ALL THE TIME.

Noj_R

02-22-2006, 11:30 PM

How do you know this when it shows Squall part of the time? And how do you know it isnt Irvine possessing Squall since he has blond hair too?

Future Esthar

02-22-2006, 11:44 PM

Irvine hasn´t blonde hair.

Omnislash07

02-22-2006, 11:49 PM

FE u are the one using circular logic, this theory only works if your propogator theory works and that only works if all of your other theories about the WOTC are right and none of them provide compete proof provided from ingame reference. All of your proof is just more theories to back up your old ones

edit: FE is right about that Irvine has brown hair similar to Squall's

Noj_R

02-23-2006, 12:05 AM

All of your proof is just more theories to back up your old ones

Ive been sayin that since the beginning, but Im glad you noticed this pattern too. Your both right, he has brown hair.

FE, how do you know that it isnt Seifer, who is in fact possessing Squall, and not Zell ( Seifer has blonde hair ;))...

Such Great Heights

02-23-2006, 12:38 AM

Of course they possess.But it isn´t scanned.
And Zell is not a sorceress.He is a knight.
Quistis knight.
Ellone´s ability is a property only a Propagator has.
A sorceress can sent the consciousness of her knight inside his father (or mother,it depends on the dominant gene).
But remember that a Propagator´s consciousness can only be sent inside another with the same color.

Okay, now you're turning a sarcastic comment into a theory. Wow.

So. Zell is Quistis' knight. And a sorceress can send her knight's mind into a parental figure. Zell is possesing Squall, then Quistis must be behind it. So Squall is Zell's mother? Am I right here?

Noj_R

02-23-2006, 12:39 AM

Ive been sayin that since the beginning, but Im glad you noticed this pattern too. Your both right, he has brown hair.

FE, how do you know that it isnt Seifer, who is in fact possessing Squall, and not Zell ( Seifer has blonde hair ;))...

Such Great Heights

02-23-2006, 12:43 AM

Oh, great, now Squall is Seifer's mother? HA! Take that, slash fangirls! SQUALL AND IRVINE WILL LIVE ON!

Ramza Beoulve

02-23-2006, 01:53 AM

Well, FE told this:

I only referred the height thing to show why we see Zell´s hair (White) below Squall´s hair(dark).

and

There is no smooth transition between the hairs so it can´t be just brightness.

The first, if the robot is making a scan of Zell in Squall, it would be all the body and not only the hair, also, it would be in more time than that just image

And for the second, I have to say it over and over again? there's EVER a brightness effect, specially in FMV, and it has Smooth transition, just take a quality image

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-23-2006, 02:23 AM

Omnislash, guess what? We have said that since like page 1 or 2 of this thread. :p

Ryushikaze

02-23-2006, 05:44 AM

So, uh... Time Cube (http://www.timecube.com/), anyone?

Ramza Beoulve

02-23-2006, 06:12 AM

Wow, just a neverending theme, it seems (including the Time Cube hehe)

Noj_R

02-23-2006, 07:12 AM

So, uh... Time Cube (http://www.timecube.com/), anyone?

wow...Theres a mouth full...:rolleyes2

Future Esthar

02-23-2006, 02:05 PM

No,that is not the case here.
I am using a physical evidence to support my theory.
Although it seems subjective at all I think it is still objective.
It was people themselves who don´t wanna to recognize Zell inside Squall because that seems too crazy and contradicts what they think about the game.
Now,that IS circular logic.
Every open minded person and good observer will be impartial and recognize Zell was saw inside Squall.
I see I need to put a screenshot showing Zell´s back somewhere on the game.
It is not just the blonde hair.We can see lines and shapes on this hair which were from Zell.

Ryushikaze

02-23-2006, 03:40 PM

No,that is not the case here.
I am using a physical evidence to support my theory.
Although it seems subjective at all I think it is still objective.

Your 'evidence' consists of scraps of scenes analyzed in isolation, jumping to bizarre conclusion which assume only a single alternate possibility from the norm. Oh, and most of your 'evidence' is other badly supported postulates.

It was people themselves who don´t wanna to recognize Zell inside Squall because that seems too crazy and contradicts what they think about the game.

People don't want to recognize 'Zell inside Squall' BECAUSE HE ISN'T.

Now,that IS circular logic.

Learn what circular logic is before accusing people of it.

Every open minded person and good observer will be impartial and recognize Zell was saw inside Squall.

Yes they will, and no they won't.

I see I need to put a screenshot showing Zell´s back somewhere on the game.
It is not just the blonde hair.We can see lines and shapes on this hair which were from Zell.

Which will show, at best, that under certain lighting conditions, and while being observed by excessively lo res greyscale cameras, Squall and Zell's hair look kinda alike from the back. THIS PROVES NOTHING, and you STILL have the problem of the obviously missing headcrest, which should be visible, but is not.

Noj_R

02-23-2006, 10:13 PM

No,that is not the case here.
I am using a physical evidence to support my theory.
A blurry 2 sec video hardly counts as evidence, especially when Squall doesnt change appearnce and you dont believe in LIGHTING EFFECTS...

Although it seems subjective at all I think it is still objective.
It was people themselves who don´t wanna to recognize Zell inside Squall because that seems too crazy and contradicts what they think about the game.
Yes, because it DOES contradict the game and it IS Squall that is running. I cannot believe you think it even remotely resembles someone else...

Now,that IS circular logic.
You are right, believing Zell is possessing Squall is circular logic because this whole concept depends on the TP ( They are Propogators ) theory.

Every open minded person and good observer will be impartial and recognize Zell was saw inside Squall.
I see I need to put a screenshot showing Zell´s back somewhere on the game.
It is not just the blonde hair.We can see lines and shapes on this hair which were from Zell.
First off, I cannot believe anyone knows Zell's back well enough he can see it through another person. Squall and Zell are both wearing indistinguishable SEED uniforms ( except the sleeves, which you completely ignore ), NOBODY can tell their backs apart. That is simply ridiculous. And no, we cannot see Zell's hair shape either.

And after all that, it hasnt even occured to you that if this thing was remotely able to happen...It might be Seifer possessing Squall :eek:

Future Esthar

02-23-2006, 10:34 PM

I think there weres situations on the game in which we see Zell´s back but no headcrest.

Noj_R

02-23-2006, 10:39 PM

I think there weres situations on the game in which we see Zell´s back but no headcrest.

Ok, but you cant tell Zell's back from Squall's when they wear the same clothes.

Also, tell my why Seifer couldnt be possessing Squall, Im dying to know...

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-23-2006, 10:39 PM

Not reallt FE. Theres is alwasy a hint of it no matter what angle it's at(except for if you were look ing at his back from the floor but there is no shot of that anywhere in the game).

Future Esthar

02-23-2006, 10:51 PM

I had yet to research that.

Ok, but you cant tell Zell's back from Squall's when they wear the same clothes.

The back of the head,I mean.

Also, tell my why Seifer couldnt be possessing Squall, Im dying to know...
__________________

They weren´t propagators with the same color.

Squall is the orange Propagator on the air lock room.
Zell is the orange Propagator on the passenger room.
Seifer is the green Propagator standing on the elevator to the bridge.

Noj_R

02-23-2006, 10:54 PM

Squall is the orange Propagator on the air lock room.
Zell is the orange Propagator on the passenger room.
Seifer is the green Propagator standing on the elevator to the bridge.

I think you should prove this theory before making new ones up...

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-23-2006, 10:55 PM

WHAT THE FUCK?! Noone is a propogator! They don't send their consciousness to the other anyways! They send brain signals to the other to communicate, but they do not control!

Noj_R

02-23-2006, 11:02 PM

WHAT THE smurf?! Noone is a propogator! They don't send their consciousness to the other anyways! They send brain signals to the other to communicate, but they do not control!

Whoa! Where in the game does it say they send brain signals?

Future Esthar

02-23-2006, 11:07 PM

It´s quite simple to identify them.
Squall-Squall is someone who don´t like to express his feeling too much.
He likes his privacity a lot.
He is a lone wolf and a "Whatever" person who don´t like to carry others burdens.It´s no surprise he stays at the air lock quietly with his back turned to the rest of the world.
Zell-Very energic,he acts before thinking.
A good example is when he tries to attack the robot on the Pandora without thinking.A very impulsive person.
Seifer-Seifer like to be the center of attention.He would stay at the elevator since people needs to use it to access the bridge.This propagator kinda resembles a product in a stand of a supermarket.

Noj_R

02-23-2006, 11:16 PM

Future Esthar

02-23-2006, 11:43 PM

It´s not symbolism.It´s behaviour.

Now that I think about this,when we consider my proposed Centra King´s dinasty and my Character/Propagator relations we have:

Green+Grey=Grey.
Grey+Orange=Orange
Orange+red=red
red+green.

Which means Squall can send Rinoa´s consciousness inside Edea,Rinoa can send Squall´s consciousness inside Laguna,Quistis can send Zell´s consciousness inside Squall,Irvine can send Selphie´s consciousness inside Quistis and Selphie can send Irvine´s consciousness inside Seifer even though he is not Irvine´s father but grandgrandfather.But it didn´t matter.What matter is that the color is the same.

Noj_R

02-24-2006, 01:05 AM

What matters is that all of this is pure speculation and none of it is proven fact. I suggest you prove one thing before moving on to something else...

Omnislash07

02-24-2006, 02:19 AM

Omnislash, guess what? We have said that since like page 1 or 2 of this thread. :p

i know that but FE often forgets things (like the obvious proof we provide to disclaim his theories) and so i figured i would point it out 1 more time... in fact someone will probably say it again before this thread is eventually closed.

also Nojr is right FE you have yet to prove with specific in game evidence that the propogators are the main characters so if you are using that theory to prove your Zell/Squall theory then your Z/S theory is automatically false

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-24-2006, 05:46 AM

Noj_R, didn't that message in that one room in the ragnarok say that the propogators with the same color can communicate with each other? Well, if not, that is my thinking on the matter.

Future Esthar

02-24-2006, 01:14 PM

Exactly.If you think to relive needs communication of course.

i know that but FE often forgets things (like the obvious proof we provide to disclaim his theories) and so i figured i would point it out 1 more time... in fact someone will probably say it again before this thread is eventually closed.

No.I just think it is bull.
You are the one who forgot.

No,that is not the case here.
I am using a physical evidence to support my theory.
Although it seems subjective at all I think it is still objective.
It was people themselves who don´t wanna to recognize Zell inside Squall because that seems too crazy and contradicts what they think about the game.
Now,that IS circular logic.
Every open minded person and good observer will be impartial and recognize Zell was saw inside Squall.
I see I need to put a screenshot showing Zell´s back somewhere on the game.
It is not just the blonde hair.We can see lines and shapes on this hair which were from Zell.
__________________

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-24-2006, 04:12 PM

How can you say that there were lines and shapes that were from Zell's hair? If you didn't know, they both have smooth hair in the back. The only shape that Zell has on his hair is the headcrest. Lines have nothing to do with it since they represent strands of hair.

Such Great Heights

02-24-2006, 05:11 PM

FE, I'm just curious; does this change the plot of the game any? What does it add to the plot? Just trying to see where you're coming from!

Skyblade

02-24-2006, 07:34 PM

Future Esthar, on your Propagator theory. Where the frell did you get that cracked up idea from anyway? You have absolutely no in game evidence supporting it. Furthermore, you aren't basing the copmparisons on the behaviors, you're basing them solely on the placement of the Propagators in the ship. And you know what? I could give an explanation that makes a whole lot more sense than the one you did.

How about this: The Propagators were standing there because there isn't that much room on the damned ship. They spread out because they don't want to make it easier for them to get killed. That's all. There is absolutely nothing that indicates that they are related in any way to the main characters of the game, and even if they were, there is nothing that indicates that they have possessive powers of any sort.

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-24-2006, 10:24 PM

That theory does makes sense because it is logical. I would agree with it.

Ryushikaze

02-25-2006, 06:27 AM

Future Esthar

02-25-2006, 12:11 PM

Indeed. It takes the available evidence- and rather a lot of it, too- and attempts to explain it without invoking any extraneous qualifiers to make it work.

BTW, Esthar. If you want your theories to be taken seriously, you should pony up your overtheory. No holding stuff back, no occasionally pulling out new stuff to cover your mistakes, no vague claims. All the evidence you've got, the theories you are deriving from it, all arranged together for everyone to see, test, and falsify.
__________________

You are right.
But since this is a unique thread I choose to post all my theories,sometimes I post others.
But the challenge to show that was Zell still remains.

FE, I'm just curious; does this change the plot of the game any? What does it add to the plot? Just trying to see where you're coming from!

Of course it changes.The very way the world of FF8 appears.

Furthermore, you aren't basing the copmparisons on the behaviors, you're basing them solely on the placement of the Propagators in the ship.

Yes,it´s on behaviours.
I just base it on locations,the one at the entrance and the one at the aisle.

Note something interesting:

1)
Propagator at air lock room-Squall
Propagator at passenger room-Zell
Propagator at bridge´s elevator-Seifer
Propagator at hangar-Rinoa
Propagator at little room near hangar-Irvine
Propagator near locked door-Selphie
Propagator near entrance-Edea.
Propagator on aisle-Quistis.

I base this SOLELY on behaviour and physical details.

2)
Edea+Seifer=Rinoa.
Rinoa+Squall=Zell.
Zell+Quistis=Selphie.
Selphie+Irvine.

I base this solely on behaviour and feelings.

Now,I didn´t base 1 nor 2 on my "Propagator dominant gene" theory.I am telling the thruth.Believe-me.

But two days ago I made everything together and was amazed how everything fits together.

3)
Green+Grey=Grey
Grey+Orange=Orange
Orange+Red=Red
Red+Green.

Which means two Propagators always give birth to one whose color is similar to the one from one of the parents.
This is the "Propagator dominant gene" theory.
I developed this independently of 1 and 2 so it cames as an interesting coincidence which shows how everything fits toguether.

That theory does makes sense because it is logical. I would agree with it.

The Propagator theory?

Ezer

02-25-2006, 05:51 PM

Hm...Interesting and logical. I think I will agree with Future Esthar's theories.
But the Propagator near the entrance is red, so it may be Quistis.

Ryushikaze

02-25-2006, 06:51 PM

Heero was referring to Skyblade's theory, Esthar.

And Ezer, have you read all of his claims? Make sure you do before agreeing with him out of hand.

Future Esthar

02-25-2006, 07:29 PM

I think Ezer already spot the behaviour character relation.

Skyblade

02-25-2006, 08:12 PM

Yes,it´s on behaviours.
I just base it on locations,the one at the entrance and the one at the aisle.

I base this SOLELY on behaviour and physical details.

I base this solely on behaviour and feelings.

WRONG! Because the Propagators (except the one stuck on the lift) all behave exactly the same. They see you, they chase after you, they attack. That's it as far as Propagator behavior goes. They don't "behave" like the characters, they are just mindless killing machines. *Shock and alarm* That's amazing, isn't it, they are monsters and they act like every other monster in the game!

Which means two Propagators always give birth to one whose color is similar to the one from one of the parents.
This is the "Propagator dominant gene" theory.
I developed this independently of 1 and 2 so it cames as an interesting coincidence which shows how everything fits toguether.

And where the hell did this come from?

Ezer

02-25-2006, 08:40 PM

They are different.
And not only in behaviours. I mean the one near the locked door is much smaller than the others.

Ramza Beoulve

02-25-2006, 08:46 PM

... The size,... it's just distance effect, you know... I also think they are all the same, how to say it?... JUST ANOTHER MONSTER

Ezer

02-25-2006, 09:29 PM

Not distance effect.
20398

20399

Ryushikaze

02-25-2006, 09:40 PM

This entire 'theory' is reliant upon taking their placement and ascribing a deeper symbolic meaning to it, and calling that the propagator's 'behaviour', ignoring their actual, identical behaviours.

In short, it has ABOUT as much validity as a Cid= Omega Weapon theory.

Maybe less.

Noj_R

02-25-2006, 10:24 PM

Has it occured to you guys that Future Esthar probably doesnt believe his own theories and he simply does it so he can laugh when people take it seriously. Because I dont think anyone could take this crap seriously, especiallu if they have played the game through.

Ryushikaze

02-25-2006, 10:27 PM

Only about every other time I read his stuff.

But then again, as a decently long time participant in SW/ST versus debates and other such things, I've come to realize that a lot of people actually believe the ubelievable things they spout.

Leeza

02-25-2006, 11:07 PM

As has been stated previously in this thread by more than one Mod, if you are going to post only to complain about FE and his theories, then don't bother posting. No one is twisting your arm to come into this thread.

Future Esthar

02-25-2006, 11:10 PM

They didn´t behave the same.They change on things like attack willing and basic attitude.And yes,I believe my theories.
You had yet to explain the coincidence I came into.
I can show you that Edea is a Propagator.

I think you never note the special Propagator head changing into a human head when Edea undergone this transformation on Deling City.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/Futuresthar/EdeaisPropagator.jpg

Note the Propagator´s head there.

Ryushikaze

02-26-2006, 12:14 AM

Firstly, please trim your screenshots.

Secondly, that's her headdress. Even if it were a propagator head, which it really isn't, it's not any more an actual part of her than the rest of the clothing she is wearing.

As for your coincidence- I assume you mean your propagator genetics postulate? I don't have to. It's completely and totally unsubstantiated. YOU have to substantiate it before we have to do anything.

Besides, like you said, it's only a coincidence.

Skyblade

02-26-2006, 12:30 AM

I trimmed it, but don't have a place to upload it, so I just included it. Seriously, it's not that hard, Future Esthar, and it makes it much easier to look at.

Anyway, where the heck do you get the idea that that's a propagator head?! It looks nothing like a propagator head. The shape's wrong, the horns aren't there on a Propagator, and a Propagator's head has eyes. Seriously, what are you smoking?!

Heero Yuy NWZC

02-26-2006, 04:55 AM

All of Skyblade's arguements on the headress are true, especially for the fact that the part that FE says is a propogator head has no eyes. Also if you look at it, it is transparent. Are propogator heads transparent? I think not.

Fonzie

02-26-2006, 06:11 AM

Settle down children this isn't the Debate forum. Also, Future for all your theories make it into one big page.

Leeza

02-26-2006, 06:34 AM

I don't see a mod title under your name Jackpot so please don't moderate.

Fonzie

02-26-2006, 06:40 AM

lol don't be so hasty to judge a person just trying make peace.

Leeza

02-26-2006, 06:42 AM

It's not your job to do so, I'm afraid. That's why we have the Warn button.

Fonzie

02-26-2006, 06:45 AM

lol right after i said you were the awesomest mod. ever.

The Devourer Of Worlds

02-26-2006, 07:11 AM

So, just because you complimented her it makes you think your immune to her tongue-lashings?

Ha

Skyblade

02-26-2006, 07:48 AM

So, just because you complimented her it makes you think your immune to her tongue-lashings?

Ha

I wish. Unfortunately it's not that easy to manipulate mods like that.

Besides, because she is a good mod, she has to do her job and that includes fussing at people who take moderating into their own hands. (I just hope that I won't get fussed at for these comments).

That theory does makes sense because it is logical. I would agree with it.

All of Skyblade's arguements on the headress are true

Thanks for all the support, Heero. I just wish Future Esthar could see the logic in my ideas. Or at least attempt to give a somewhat logical reason as to why these ideas are invalid.

Ramza Beoulve

02-26-2006, 07:49 AM

umm, now the fight is for who moderates? this gonna be funny :D

EDIT:

I just wish Future Esthar could see the logic in my ideas. Or at least attempt to give a somewhat logical reason as to why these ideas are invalid. I agree with Skyblade and Heero

Also FE, try to successfully prove us a Plothole before to take us to another one, please?

Skyblade

02-26-2006, 07:53 AM

umm, now the fight is for who moderates? this gonna be funny :D

Nah. Leeza has everything well in hand.

Right now the only thing I can see us arguing over is what...odd...idea Future Esthar will present next.

Ramza Beoulve

02-26-2006, 08:08 AM

For what I have been reading last week, it could be anything, he could even say that the one behind all this plot is a chocobo... (ow, monkeys, I give him an idea)

Ryushikaze

02-26-2006, 11:47 AM

MMM.... Choconspiracies.

Yes. The Chocobo kid has been manipulating Ultimecia the ENTIRE TIME? WHY? Because he's HYNE! And he wants ALL THE POWER BACK! None of you can disprove this theory so it MUST BE TRUE!

Aqua Heart

02-26-2006, 02:24 PM

1 word "Ridiculous"

Future Esthar

02-26-2006, 03:01 PM

You are wrong.Propagator´s head are transparent and Edea´s "head" has eyes.This is just the wrong screenshot to see them.

This is the right one.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/Futuresthar/Edeaspropeyes.jpg

See the three eyes?
The third is difficult to see but not impossible.

Yes. The Chocobo kid has been manipulating Ultimecia the ENTIRE TIME? WHY? Because he's HYNE! And he wants ALL THE POWER BACK! None of you can disprove this theory so it MUST BE TRUE!

You are right even though you are being sarcastic.
Chocoboy is a Shumi possessed by Doc Odine (no kidding).

Waveth

02-26-2006, 03:44 PM

MOLV , the O in Roman Numerals was a useless number, used to represent a space between a skipped Digit, and therefore was eliminated, and squaresoft keeps things old fashioned

MOLV = 1055 period ~

Omnislash07

02-26-2006, 05:39 PM

Ramza Beoulve

02-26-2006, 07:19 PM

*sigh* I'm getting sick of this, but it's funny, so I'll be here to see what else FE gets in his dreams and take a good laugh :)

Skyblade

02-26-2006, 07:25 PM

No FE u are wrong, Edea's headress does not have any eyes on it and the propagator heads are not transparent. when you fight them on the ragnarok you cannot see through their heads so i dont know where u get the idea that their heads are transparent.

Also this was mentioned before and you never even noticed it but what about all the horns Edea's headress has? The propagators do not have any horns on their heads. Their heads are pretty flat too while Edea's headress is more curved and rounded.

Thank you, you put that very well. I was going to say the same thing, only I wasn't going to be nearly so polite about it.

Future Esthar, that is not a Propagator head. It looks nothing like a Propagator head. It is a visor on her headress. Even in the first pic, you can see her face beneath it, since it doesn't even cover her entire head. Also, Propagators don't have hair, so if you argue that it is a Propagator head bacoming Edea's head, how come the long hair is there on the Propagator version, but it disappears when the rest of the headress?