Is Ultemicha Rinoa's great grandaughter or were her powerz passed on to some1 else?

[The Last Oath]

For people who have clogged the games and know lots about it, heres something for you to think about. Ultimechia is from the future. Squall and co go and kill Ultimehcia in the past and then come back to there own time and live happily ever after. But if its true about sorceress passing on there powers before they die then Rinoa must have had to pass them on. Now just say Squall and Rinoa had a daughter, perhaps RInoa passed her powers onot her or perhaps she passed them onto someone else. Just say she passed them onto her daughter as she did to hers and it kept going on until Ultemchia was born became a syco and honed her power. So her Great Realation Grandmother in Rinoa. One more thing all the sorceress are human, edea, adel and rinoa but the final form of ultemichia is like a monster my only theory on this is that she transformed after absorbing all the other witches you fight before going to her castle.

[~SapphireStar~]

The theory in which I believe is Squall dies at the end of the game and the ending is Rinoas ideal perfect world (the party scene). So I dont believe they had family,etc. But thats what Ive always believed, so dont anyone start the bashing cause I'll just inform one of the Knights. This is my opinion on the matter. You dont like it, tough.

[Sir Bahamut]

While it is possible that Ultimecia is Rinoas great-great-great-grand daughter or something, there isn't anything which indicates that this is in fact true, so we can only assume Ultimecia is not related to anyone in the main party. Further, I highly doubt that Rinoa would want to give her powers to her daughter, as she clearly does not desire being a sorceress herself....

As for Ultimecias final form, what you say is correct, and it actually says if you scan her final form: "Transformed to absorb time and space....."

Sapphire: I don't know if you want to start a discussion here, but I was wondering what exactly is in the game which makes you believe that theory? Because as far as I can tell, there is nothing indicating that the ending is anything but reality...

[boys from the dwarf]

its possible but there is no evidence in the game ot back it up so it more than likely to be false.

[The Last Oath]

I just thought of this. In disc 4 on the ragnarok when you talk to Rinoa she says her powers will eventually reach ultemicha. And perhpas Sir Bahamut is right, Rinoa wouldnt have passed her powers onto her ddaughter but perhaps somelse. which eventually reached ultimechia.

[Masamune·1600]

Sir B. has already pointed out that, while not impossible, there is nothing in the game to suggest that Ultimecia is a descendent of Squall and Rinoa. What's notable, however, is that FF games have a tendency to make "mysterious relationships" fairly obvious (Laguna and Squall, for example, or Shadow and Relm). As such, it's unlikely that Ultimecia was intended as a descendent, given that there is no hint of this.

[Ryushikaze]

SapphireStar, not to be an obdurate ass, but you can't call it both a theory and just an opinion. Of course, it would have to simply be your opinion, since it's a grand deciever argument, and fails by default.

[Lychon]

SapphireStar, not to be an obdurate ass, but you can't call it both a theory and just an opinion. Of course, it would have to simply be your opinion, since it's a grand deciever argument, and fails by default.

Wow.



Regarding the title of this thread, I would recommend that next time it is not so revealing or possibly spoiling, if you know what I mean.

-LYCHON

[~SapphireStar~]

SapphireStar, not to be an obdurate ass, but you can't call it both a theory and just an opinion. Of course, it would have to simply be your opinion, since it's a grand deciever argument, and fails by default.
It is a theory because it is on the Internet and others believe it also. And in my opinion, I believe that theory to be correct. Im reporting you to Leeza cause as I said thats my opinion and the theory I believe.

[Leeza]

~SapphireStar~ I don't quite understand why you needed to report this. It's your opinion/theory, but he also has a right to his own and I didn't see anyone bashing you. Unless I'm totally missing something as I have never played this game.

[Ryushikaze]

Theory implies evidence- IE objective.
Just an opinion means purely subjective- IE totally nonobjective.


And if we do treat it as a theory it requires what we are shown in the end of the game to be a lie- IE: a grand deception- it is incredibly disadvantaged. Oh, and just because other people believe it does not make it true. Appeal to popularity is a logical fallacy. Evidence is all that matters in theories.

I'm not saying you can't believe it, but understand that as a theory it is INCREDIBLY weak.

[Rinoa_Heartillly]

I'm confused! >_<

[Winter Nights]

Actually, you don't have to have any proof to have a theory. Proof would turn a theory into fact.

[Ryushikaze]

No, you don't have to have any proof to have a hypothesis. Evidence is required for theory, and LOTS of evidence is required for 'fact'

Granted, people use the term 'theory' loosely quite often, but the point remains, Opinion and Theory are seperate.

[Winter Nights]

Actually, while opinion and theory are seperate, you are still not completely correct. All you need is something that hints at a possibility to have a theory. A hypothesis doesn't even require that much. Once you gather enough evidence to prove said theory, then it becomes fact. Evidence and proof are not completely the same thing.

Opinion, requires no proof or even any logic. I can say that cheese tastes like dog/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif. I will never have to taste dog/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif to hold this opinion. Hell, i can eat dog/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif and know for a fact that I'm wrong and still hold that opinion.

[Ryushikaze]

Eh. Basically what I was saying. Mayhaps I should sleep, so as to avoid further errant wordsteps.

[Lychon]

SapphireStar, not to be an obdurate ass, but you can't call it both a theory and just an opinion. Of course, it would have to simply be your opinion, since it's a grand deciever argument, and fails by default.


Hmmm...I could have sworn that the above quote said something slightly different when it was originally posted...maybe it's just my imagination...

EDIT:A theory and an opinion can be the same thing, and at times they are the same thing. A theory is below the level of a "natural law," therefore it is not accepted as a cold fact and can have variations and opinions attached to its main bodily premise.

EXAMPLE: Theory of evolution. Not proven and there has been contradicting scientific evidence which puts the entire idea of human evolution in serious doubt. Based on these established facts, evolution can be regarded as an opinion amongst scientists, but it is also still a theory. Therefore, a theory and an opinion are not mutually exclusive and often can be labled as the same thing. In the scientific community, a theory progresses to the level of "natural law" only when it is overwhelming confirmed as fact through factual evidence.

[Leeza]

This thread is not about discussing the differences between theory/opinion/hypothesis/whatever. Stay on topic please.

[The Last Oath]

ok ok, but perhaps the reason ultemchia's face appears on rinaos is because her powers eventually reached ultemicha in the future. So a part of rinoa is in ultemchia

[Sir Bahamut]

All discussion on theory vs opinion aside, as Leeza said, the fact remains that there is not actually anything which 'hints' at the whole ending being simply a glimpse inside Rinoas now insane mind, or anything along those lines. Not only does it go completely against everything the game has built up to, it also goes completely against what Square tend to do with their endings. Of course, they might have decided to do something crazy for this FF ending, but as there's been no clues about any such thing, I highly doubt it.

That being said, you can of course believe whatever you want, but logically/rationally speaking, the theory is no more plausible than, say, theories that Ellone = Ultimecia or so on (ie. not plausible at all).

Now to get back on topic:


ok ok, but perhaps the reason ultemchia's face appears on rinaos is because her powers eventually reached ultemicha in the future. So a part of rinoa is in ultemchia

Definitely. Rinoa says in the Ragnarok that her powers will eventually reach Ultimecia, and since, according to Odine, Rinoa is the last sorceress of her era, Ultimecias powers MUST come from Rinoa. This is why Rinoa and Ultimecia are linked through things like their wings (Rinoas being white, representing the good that can come from her powers; Ultimecias being black, representing the evil that can come from them) and so on. These facts are often mistinterpreted as hinting that Rinoa is Ultimecia, but that is unfounded. Rinoa and Ultimecia are deliberately set against eachother as opposites, but nothing more.

[~SapphireStar~]

Can I just quickly say, I thought he was calling me an arse hence the reason I reported it. Sorry bout that, but I still stick by that theory.

[The Last Oath]

Alright, they are not descendents, but from the R U theory i dont see how that can work either since Rinoas parents are julia and genral carlway. I think i would agree with Sir Bahamut on syaing that rinoa and ultemchia are set against each other with the wing theory.

Also i think we could find more answers with a link i was wondering about before. The link consists of the following.

1: The starting FMV
2: The Ending FMV

In the starting it shows a feather falling from the sky, And im not sure but during the end it shows squall grabing the feather and then the whole screen changes. This feather is also in Squalls gunblade i beileve. THERE IS A CONNECTION. The feather starts the game thus ends it. When you die and it says game over the feather is on the floor, When Squall almost dies at the end of the game the feather appears again but squall was in his depression at the time, it was the only thing keeping him alive along with Rinoas thoughts. But that was what almost killed him after the glass shattered. Rinoa goes to the 'place they will meet' at the start of the game but squall isnt there, but they hadnt actually made that promise yet. Thus rinoa didnt know who squall was, but squall had the feather in his gunblade which supposly flew in to the sky from the 'place they would meet'. There is something about this feather. I got ot go now but ill be investigating this now.

[Kamrusepas]

Ultemicha. Wow, someone found a new way to misspell Ultimecia...

And this applies to the topic how? ~ Leeza

[rubah]

I don't think that ultimecia is rinoa's relative. In the duration of the game, none of the witches we see give their powers to a relative or even have children.

[Lychon]

I don't think that ultimecia is rinoa's relative. In the duration of the game, none of the witches we see give their powers to a relative or even have children.

But they do transder their powers to somebody, and there's nothing that says they cannot transfer their powers to a relative.

-LYCHON

[Sir Bahamut]

True, but considering Rinoa's feelings about being a sorceress, I doubt she'd want her children to go through the same thing.