Fran and Balthier?

[scooby]

Are they romantically involved? I've read in several places that they are "partners", but I was wondering what exactly the nature of their partnership is. I do hope they're together; they look good together.

[Crossblades]

I'm sure somewhere in the game they will reveal that they are lovers or something

[scooby]

Originally Posted by Crossblades
I'm sure somewhere in the game they will reveal that they are lovers or something. Cool. I think I'll be shipping them together, anyway.

Is it just me, or can anyone else see something really horrible happening to Fran, and Balthier getting really pissed about it? Just a thought.

[Ouch!]

Personally, I can't see the two being romantically involved.

[Death Penalty]

I see them being a prejudiced romance seeing as how this game seems a lil polical.

[scooby]

Originally Posted by Death Penalty
I see them being a prejudiced romance seeing as how this game seems a lil political. Hmmm.... that would be very interesting, methinks. Thanks for your ideas, guys.

[Death Penalty]

Welcome.

[DLLS]

This reminded me about a picture i found a while ago. I'm not sure if its official art or not but i liked it. I've been wondering about that myself but i think that there is romance between them.

[Death Penalty]

Yeah I see it definately. But I wonder if when he kisses her he feels fur.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Not unless he kisses her ears.

[boys from the dwarf]

i think there just good friends and i doubt there actually lovers.

[scooby]

OMG! OMG! OMFG! Major, major, major, MAJOR SPOILERS!!!!! Look what I just got from Advent Children.Net forums. Again, MAJOR SPOILERS:

During the credits, they show Balthier being, indeed, alive, and is living in the Viera village. He's a father (holding a new born baby). They don't show the mother, but it's most likely Fran. Prior to showing Balthier as a father, they show a picture of Balthier with is arm around Fran (the famous picture where Fran is pinching his hand). The back ground to this picture is of the Viera village. And, even before that, I found the scene where both Balthier and Fran were trying to change the direction of Bahamut kinds touching. Balthier is working hard as the entire fortress is collapsing. Debris is falling everywhere. Fran's near him, doing her thing. Suddenly a bunch of debris falls and it sends a cloud of dust and smoke to engulf them. When it clears, Balthier's alright, continuing his work. After he finishes, he calls out to Fran, but she doesn't answer. He looks over to where she was and sees that she's been crushed by a piece of debris. He lifts it off her and she's unconscious. He picks her up and carries her. As this happens, Bahamut falls. Perhaps his feelings went beyond that of "just partners".

I was right on both counts! I knew it! *gloats*

Man, I'm such a spoiler whore....

[Death Penalty]

Give me a link

[scooby]

The site: http://www.adventchildren.net/

The forums: http://forums.adventchildren.net/

The page: http://forums.adventchildren.net/showthread.php?p=2137108#post2137108

Be warned: the whole page is very spoilerific.

[Death Penalty]

thanks.

[scooby]

So, whaddya think? I wonder if the baby will have bunny ears...?

[Death Penalty]

Well inter-species breeding as far as I know isnt possible between humans and bunnys but you never know

[scooby]

She's a Viera!!! Like, 95% human, or something. It's no worse than Garnet and Zidane (that monkey-boy). He had a tail! Or how about Quina and Vivi getting married?! Way, way weirder!

[Death Penalty]

All things I dont support.

[scooby]

Hey, think of her as, like, a Playboy Bunny. But with real ears!

[Death Penalty]

There is something wrong with that. Extremely wrong.

[scooby]

OMG. This is insane. Because I'm such a spoiler whore, and because I'm in the UK (i.e. unlikely to actually play this game for about a year :grumble:), I decided to check out a couple of the FMVs on YouTube. One of the ones I watched incuded a bit where a piece of debris falls on Fran, crushing her. Balthier rushes over and picks her out of the rubble. They exchange a few affectionate words (but I couldn't understand them, because I don't speak Japanese), before she passes out on his shoulder. He then lifts her into his arms and carries her off.

It's so surreal, because I have had a scenario like this one in my mind for ages - where Fran is injured and Balthier carries her like that. Bizarre. And cool.

I love these two already, and I'm so pleased that the couples are turning out to be so unconventional.

Edited to add: I deleted the link to the FMV on YouTube, because it's been removed due to copyright infringement. Oops....

[Savannah]

Eh. I dislike them. I don't know why. Maybe because he looks like a sleaze and I can't stop thinking "Playboy" when I look at her.

[scooby]

Originally Posted by Savannah
Maybe because he looks like a sleaze and I can't stop thinking "Playboy" when I look at her. Awww, you should see how sweet he is with her in that FMV, though. (I'm assuming you didn't watch it.) It was very touching. I'm sold.

[Jir11]

Eh. I dislike them. I don't know why. Maybe because he looks like a sleaze and I can't stop thinking "Playboy" when I look at her.


What's wrong with Playboy? ;)

[Savannah]

Nothing, unless you're a mostly straight chick who isn't into bestality.

[Ballistix Man]

They get together.

[Mirage]

Yay for inter-species relationships.

[scooby]

Originally Posted by Savannah
Nothing, unless you're a mostly straight chick who isn't into bestiality. That's so insulting. Fran isn't an animal - she's a Viera. She is no more a rabbit than Zidane is a monkey.

Originally Posted by Mirage
Yay for inter-species relationships. "Yay", indeed. Fran and Bal can proudly join the ranks of interspecific couples in fantasy worlds, that include Arwen (elf) and Aragorn (human), Oz (werewolf) and Willow (human) and our very own Zidane (Genome) and Garnet (human). Let's not even go into the multispecies mindf**k that was Yuna (half-human/half-Al Bhed) and Seymour (half-human/half-Guado)....

Oh, and by the way, that picture that DLLS posted earlier in the thread is official. It's from the credits.

[DeathKnight]

The best two FFXII characters. I hope they have something going on, it'll be more interesting than Vaan's adventure with the other two girls.:)

[scooby]

Originally Posted by DeathKnight
The best two FFXII characters. I hope they have something going on, it'll be more interesting than Vaan's adventure with the other two girls.:) Yay! Another Fran/Bal shipper! There seems to be quite a few around and about the internet. 'Tis encouraging.

They're my favourite characters, too.:)

[Savannah]

That's so insulting. Fran isn't an animal - she's a Viera. She is no more a rabbit than Zidane is a monkey.

It still strikes me as kinda gross. *shrugs*

[scooby]

Originally Posted by Savannah
It still strikes me as kinda gross. *shrugs* Why? Do you think Arwen and Aragorn are "kinda gross", too? (Don't know if you're into LOTR....) I think this is a valid comparison - because, in both relationships, there is a human male and an essentially human female with "different" ears.

It's not as though Balthier is in love with his pet rabbit.... Then I'd be worried.... Fran is his equal.

[Ballistix Man]

I'm in love with my pet rabbit.

[Savannah]

Why? Do you think Arwen and Aragorn are "kinda gross", too? (Don't know if you're into LOTR....) I think this is a valid comparison - because, in both relationships, there is a human male and an essentially human female with "different" ears.

It's not as though Balthier is in love with his pet rabbit.... Then I'd be worried.... Fran is his equal.

Bad comparison. An elf is essentially a human with slimmer body frame and slightly longer ears. A person with the traits of an animal is a different story. Elves have traits exclusive to their own species. Fran is human + rabbit.

I know Fran is at least on level with a human in intellect capacity, but it still. . . really doesn't appeal to me. Furry/anthro stuff just isn't my thing. Maybe it's just that she's so sexualized; Freya, Kimahri and Red XIII didn't bother me.

[scooby]

Originally Posted by Savannah
Bad comparison. An elf is essentially a human with slimmer body frame and slightly longer ears. A person with the traits of an animal is a different story. Elves have traits exclusive to their own species. Fran is human + rabbit.

I know Fran is at least on level with a human in intellect capacity, but it still. . . really doesn't appeal to me. Furry/anthro stuff just isn't my thing. Maybe it's just that she's so sexualized; Freya, Kimahri and Red XIII didn't bother me. No - it's a great comparison (and one that has been made by many). Viera are the elves of Ivalice. They are very tall and very wise, with long, lissom bodies that make them well-suited to being rangers and archers - like elves. They are woodland folk - living in tight-knit clans in the forests - like elves. They have great longevity - like elves, and completely unlike rabbits - living for up to three times as long as Humes - on average: about 200 years. They have highly developed senses - superb eyesight and hearing - like rabbits, but also like elves. And, most like elves of all, they lost their ancient homelands centuries ago and have begun to mingle with Humes, though the "pure-blooded" Viera remain deep within the forests. Sounds like a passage from Tolkien, doesn't it?

Viera have far more in common with elves than with rabbits, whom they only share a couple of physical features with - namely: ears and claws.
They are a race with their own history and their own - elf-like - traits.

And I would say that Fran is probably the most intelligent of the group, actually. She is a wonderful character - beyond her physical appearance - which is all you seem to be focusing on.

[Savannah]

No - it's a great comparison (and one that has been made by many). Viera are the elves of Ivalice. They are very tall and very wise, with long, lissom bodies that make them well-suited to being rangers and archers - like elves. They are woodland folk - living in tight-knit clans in the forests - like elves. They have great longevity - like elves, and completely unlike rabbits - living for up to three times as long as Humes - on average: about 200 years. They have highly developed senses - superb eyesight and hearing - like rabbits, but also like elves. And, most like elves of all, they lost their ancient homelands centuries ago and have begun to mingle with Humes, though the "pure-blooded" Viera remain deep within the forests. Sounds like a passage from Tolkien, doesn't it?

Viera have far more in common with elves than with rabbits, whom they only share a couple of physical features with - namely: ears and claws.
They are a race with their own history and their own - elf-like - traits.

And I would say that Fran is probably the most intelligent of the group, actually. She is a wonderful character - beyond her physical appearance - which is all you seem to be focusing on.

Rabbit ears + rabbit tail = rabbit-like. I'm sorry, she's oversexualized and she's PART ANIMAL. Even if she is the most intelligent member of the party, you can't make it sit well with me. No, I'm not going to go out with picket signs and protest the game for its cruelty to animals, but seeing her prance around in skimpy clothes isn't going to do anything for me.

I'm not saying anything negative about her-- I'm not sure why you leapt to her defense just because bunny chicks don't do it for me. As for her being "the most intelligent of the group," I'll judge her by her personality when I actually play the game.

[DeathKnight]

Rabbit ears + rabbit tail = rabbit-like. I'm sorry, she's oversexualized and she's PART ANIMAL. Even if she is the most intelligent member of the party, you can't make it sit well with me. No, I'm not going to go out with picket signs and protest the game for its cruelty to animals, but seeing her prance around in skimpy clothes isn't going to do anything for me.

I'm not saying anything negative about her-- I'm not sure why you leapt to her defense just because bunny chicks don't do it for me. As for her being "the most intelligent of the group," I'll judge her by her personality when I actually play the game.

She's BOTH cute and sexy! :love: what a girl! rrrrr! I think I'm ALWAYS gonna have her on my team hehe.

[scooby]

Originally Posted by Savannah
Rabbit ears + rabbit tail = rabbit-like. She doesn't have a tail. Her ears and claws are her only "rabbit" features. I'd estimate that that makes her about 3% rabbit, 17% Hume and 80% elf = Viera.

And humans are animals, anyway; evolved from apes, and all. You can even see the ape in some men (especially the hairy ones).

Out of interest: how do you feel about Zidane - the Genome - with his tail? In particular - his relationship with Garnet (a human).

[DeathKnight]

She doesn't have a tail. Her ears and claws are her only "rabbit" features. I'd estimate that that makes her about 3% rabbit, 17% Hume and 80% elf = Viera.

And humans are animals, anyway; evolved from apes, and all. You can even see the ape in some men (especially the hairy ones).

Out of interest: how do you feel about Zidane - the Genome - with his tail? In particular - his relationship with Garnet (a human).

You are the man!

Funny thing is, people who don't like or find Fran digusting remind me of the racist BASTARDS who labeled people of color.

[scooby]

Originally Posted by DeathKnight
You are the man! Thanks.... But...I'm a girl.

Funny thing is, people who don't like or find Fran digusting remind me of the racist BASTARDS who labeled people of color.Past tense? Like racism isn't still prevalent...? And racism cuts both ways. Or, should I say - it cuts all ways.

But with Fran, it is more speciesism - which isn't so much of a real-world issue. Let's not get into a debate about racism here.

[DeathKnight]

Thanks.... But...I'm a girl.
Past tense? Like racism isn't still prevalent...? And racism cuts both ways.

Yeah it's still here, which is even sadder.

And it goes both way, but let's turn back the clock. If I remember correctly, the africans were NEVER racist against whites, so who's to blame? the whites! and who are the MAJORITY, the whites! So they should lead by example and stop something THEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY started:irked:

[scooby]

Originally Posted by DeathKnight
And it goes both way, but let's turn back the clock. If I remember correctly, the africans were NEVER racist against whites, so who's to blame? the whites! and who are the MAJORITY, the whites! So they should lead by example and stop something THEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY started:irked: Are you referring to American history? The slave trade, apartheid and such? Because most of the world isn't Caucasian....

But, anyway.... Please read the addition I made to my last post. This thread was not created to discuss racism; it was created to discuss Fran and Balthier's relationship (and it's possible romantic nature). The thread has unfortunately developed into an "is Fran a suitable romantic partner for Balthier, and would a romantic relationship between them be appropriate?" thread, but those questions have more to do with speciesism than anything else, so...let's cut racism out of it.

I predict that this matter will be discussed quite a lot on these forums (and others) after the English release of the game.... But that remains to be seen. There will be those (like Savannah) who think of Fran as little more than an anthropomorphised rabbit... but I think that the majority will respect and support her. I've seen a lot of support for Fran/Balthier, already. The ship wars between Fran/Balthier supporters and Ashe/Balthier supporters have already begun.:D

[Ballistix Man]

You are the man!

Funny thing is, people who don't like or find Fran digusting remind me of the racist BASTARDS who labeled people of color.
Umm there is nothing rascist about it. Its plain and simple beastiality. I like the couple but it is really just plain beastiality

[scooby]

Originally Posted by Ballistix Man
Umm there is nothing rascist about it. Its plain and simple beastiality. I like the couple but it is really just plain beastiality
1. That statement is contradictory. You support bestiality?

2. Have you even bothered to read the rest of the thread?

3. Fran has one body part that is the same as an "animal's" (though humans are animals, technically), but the rest of her is anthro/elf-like. And that body part is an appendage (her ears); from the head down, her body is completely human (apart from her claws....). More importantly - her soul, brain and behaviour are the same as a humans. She is fully intelligent and fully consenting.

[DeathKnight]

1. That statement is contradictory. You support bestiality?

2. Have you even bothered to read the rest of the thread?

3. Fran has one body part that is the same as an "animal's" (though humans are animals, technically), but the rest of her is anthro/elf-like. And that body part is an appendage (her ears); from the head down, her body is completely human (apart from her claws....). More importantly - her soul, brain and behaviour are the same as a humans. She is fully intelligent and fully consenting.

My thoughts exactly. Like I said before, I WILL NOT take her out of my party, she'll always be there :love: :meditate:

[Ballistix Man]

1. That statement is contradictory. You support bestiality?

2. Have you even bothered to read the rest of the thread?

3. Fran has one body part that is the same as an "animal's" (though humans are animals, technically), but the rest of her is anthro/elf-like. And that body part is an appendage (her ears); from the head down, her body is completely human (apart from her claws....). More importantly - her soul, brain and behaviour are the same as a humans. She is fully intelligent and fully consenting.
1. I ahve no problem with beastiality but most people do.
2. I read through this thread quite a few times.
3. Ya have a point but I still see an animal when I look at her. ASnd really its my opinion. There is no analogue from other fictional works that you can come up with that will change my opinion.

[scooby]

Originally Posted by Ballistix Man
1. I have no problem with bestiality, but most people do.:erm: Severe "No. Comment."


2. I read through this thread quite a few times.Yeah...:shifty: you seem to hang around here quite a lot....

3. Ya have a point but I still see an animal when I look at her. And really it's my opinion. There is no analogue from other fictional works that you can come up with that will change my opinion.Fair enough. Whatever.

[Ballistix Man]

Its not that I support beastiality but it has no efect on my life in anyway so if people have sex with a horse or dog it is no business of mine.

[Savannah]

She doesn't have a tail. Her ears and claws are her only "rabbit" features. I'd estimate that that makes her about 3% rabbit, 17% Hume and 80% elf = Viera.

http://ffxii.net/image.php?view=images/art/art10.jpg Looks like a tail to me-- a place in her armor to make way for one, anyway. But I haven't seen a clear shot of her butt so I can't say so with certainty. That's just what it looks like to me.


And humans are animals, anyway; evolved from apes, and all. You can even see the ape in some men (especially the hairy ones).

Sure, humans are animals too. That doesn't make it okay to have sex with them, though.


Out of interest: how do you feel about Zidane - the Genome - with his tail? In particular - his relationship with Garnet (a human).

All Zidane has is a tail, something not specific to any one species of animal. He isn't part-animal, he just has something that a variety of animals usually have. Fran's whole facial structure is different; she just looks too much like a bunny for my liking.

I can't believe what a huge issue this became, especially the racist remarks. Wow. Great way to fish for a character flaw when all there is to my opinion is the fact that I'M NOT TURNED ON BY RABBIT WOMEN.

[DeathKnight]

http://ffxii.net/image.php?view=images/art/art10.jpg Looks like a tail to me-- a place in her armor to make way for one, anyway. But I haven't seen a clear shot of her butt so I can't say so with certainty. That's just what it looks like to me.



Sure, humans are animals too. That doesn't make it okay to have sex with them, though.



All Zidane has is a tail, something not specific to any one species of animal. He isn't part-animal, he just has something that a variety of animals usually have. Fran's whole facial structure is different; she just looks too much like a bunny for my liking.

I can't believe what a huge issue this became, especially the racist remarks. Wow. Great way to fish for a character flaw when all there is to my opinion is the fact that I'M NOT TURNED ON BY RABBIT WOMEN.

*bolds something surprising* REALLY??? So we can't have sex with humans? Oh man!

Let her have bunny ears! Quina looked a frog or something. Kihmari looked like a lion beast or something.

In the end, she's the best FFXII character, that's what matters to me:cool: :up:

[scooby]

Originally Posted by Savannah
But I haven't seen a clear shot of her butt so I can't say so with certainty.Clear shot of Fran's butt (http://www.kikizo.com/viewer/imageview_games.asp?ffxii_rev/03.jpg). She doesn't have a tail. I've seen FMVs which make this fact especially clear, but I can't take screencaps of them.

All Zidane has is a tail, something not specific to any one species of animal. He isn't part-animal, he just has something that a variety of animals usually have.All Fran has is ears - something not specific to any one species of animal. She isn't part-animal - she just has something that a variety of animals have.

And...it looks like a monkey tail to me!:tongue:

...I'M NOT TURNED ON BY RABBIT WOMEN.NEITHER AM I. I just think that she's essentially human, kickass and toooootally cute with Balthier.

What about Kuja? He's another oversexualised :drool:, underdressed :drool: :drool: character with one animal body part.

[DeathKnight]

Clear shot of Fran's butt: http://www.ffxii.net/image.php?view=images/screens/game/49.jpg
She doesn't have a tail. I've seen FMVs which make this fact especially clear, but I can't take screencaps of them.
All Fran has is ears - something not specific to any one species of animal. She isn't part-animal - she just has something that a variety of animals have.

And...it looks like a monkey tail to me!:tongue:
NEITHER AM I. I just think that she's essentially human, kickass and toooootally cute with Balthier.

What about Kuja? He's another oversexualised:drool:, underdressed:drool: :drool: character with one animal body part.

Fo' Shizzle! :up:

[nobuteru]

just wanted to vocally join the (swelling, hopefully) ranks of fran+balthier=swelteringly hot shippers ;) this will be my favorite coupling in ff12, perhaps all ff and maybe even all video games. despite the fact that i'm in dead opposition with all those who either a) support balthier+ashe (turns to the side to regurgitate) or b) refuses to support fran+balthier on any grounds (particularly one that states that fran is not human and therefore....b/c neither is balthier..he is a hume...if he was supposed to be human, his bio would say he is human....this is a fantasy world, people, and in a fantasy world anything goes) all this conflict has me itching even more to play this game...october/november is too far away. i mean, they'd rather let loyal fans suffer in the name of holiday time profit? dubbing a game doesn't take more than a month or so. translation shouldn't take more than a couple of weeks either. this game (which I've been watching since i was in jr high (7yrs ago)) should be released latest by may early june assuming they didn't work on either translation or dubbing pre the japanese release. sorry, just had to rant about that.

[Savannah]

Clear shot of Fran's butt: http://www.ffxii.net/image.php?view=images/screens/game/49.jpg
She doesn't have a tail. I've seen FMVs which make this fact especially clear, but I can't take screencaps of them.

Still looks to me like there could be a place near the small of her back where her armor's making way for a tail.


All Fran has is ears - something not specific to any one species of animal. She isn't part-animal - she just has something that a variety of animals have.

Like I said, Fran's entire facial structure is different, and I can't think of any other animal that has ears like that.


What about Kuja? He's another oversexualised:drool:, underdressed:drool: :drool: character with one animal body part.

Eh. I don't like men who look like women, either.

[scooby]

Originally Posted by Savannah
Still looks to me like there could be a place near the small of her back where her armor's making way for a tail.No - that's one of the many randomly-placed spikes on her armour. She has them at her knees, at her ankles, at her wrists and at her upper thighs (pointing downwards). Her armour is very exaggeratedly serrated and spikey. In this picture (http://www.ffxii.net/image.php?view=images/art/art6.jpg) you can see her rather ridiculous knee-spikes. She has one at the base of her spine, just above her thong (a vulnerable spot, I suppose). But I think the spikes have more to do with decoration, than anything.... After all, nothing about her armour seems to have been designed with practicality in mind....

But I can say with certainty that Fran does not have a tail. Viera do not have tails. A couple of Rava (the dark-skinned variety of Viera) can be glimpsed at the beginning of the opening FMV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yDkNCA4pTQ), and they clearly do not have tails, either.

...and I can't think of any other animal that has ears like that. Hares! :bigbiggri

Originally Posted by nobuteru
just wanted to vocally join the (swelling, hopefully) ranks of fran+balthier=swelteringly hot shippers;) Welcome! And...I think we are the majority, my friend - so take comfort!
...this is a fantasy world, people, and in a fantasy world anything goes...Thank-you! This is a superbly relevant argument that has been made elsewhere, but really needed to be introduced to this thread. Because, in the world of Ivalice, a Hume and a Viera can get together. In fact, as there are apparently no male Viera, this may be a common practice. Hume + Viera could = new Viera (?).

And...speaking of reproduction.... Earlier in the thread, I posted what I had found on the Advent Children.net forums: about the picture of "Balthier" seen during the credits - in which he is holding a baby. Well, I have since watched the credits myself (on YouTube) and read much more about the game; it seems that the man in the picture is commonly believed to be, not Balthier (as was previously thought), but rather his father: Cid - holding Balthier as a young baby. I must say that I concur with the general consensus. The fact that the man is wearing glasses - as Cid notably does, and Balthier does not - is a bit of a giveaway, I feel. However, I don't think that this takes away from the strength of the evidence for Fran/Balthier.

Lastly: the HUGELY SPOILERIFIC FMV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ultjsCoYXlo), from the end of the game, that contains Fran and Bal's "cute" scene (described earlier in the thread), is back up on YouTube (broadcast by someone else, this time) - for those who want to see it.

[nobuteru]

thanx...my biggest concern is that in the english translation, they'll water down the relationship between fran and bal (and perhaps even shift it towards bal and ashe)...if so, i suppose i'll just have to buy the japanese version as well...

[Ballistix Man]

They cant shift anything with translation. I've seen all the games FMV's.

[Nick Schovitz]

Aww man wish I could look at the spoilers, but maybe I'll forget about them once the game comes out in August, I think that Fran and Blthier the guy with the gun probably aren't lovers, well now you mention it, there might be a chance but it's just strange, rabbit ears? it's not like Lulu chose Khimari!

[Ballistix Man]

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
BELOW



Its a couple. Its official.

[Sashi]

No it's not. Nothing has been officially confirmed one way or the other, at this point it's all speculation.

[Ballistix Man]

I have seen the ending FMV.

[Sashi]

Yes, but it is still open to interpretation.

SPOILER




As far as I know, from the game translation, the only couple that was explicitly stated is Ashe/Rasler. Fran and Balthier [I]could[I] be together, but it is not confirmed one way or the other.

[Ballistix Man]

It can clearly be seen

[scooby]

I'm going to have to side with Sashi on this one. Fran and Balthier are not an official couple - no matter how much I might want them to be. There is strong evidence that the two have feelings for each other that go beyond friendship, but nothing concrete. The English translation may add to, or detract from, the strength of that evidence.... We'll have to wait and see.

The penultimate FMV shows them bickering amiably, not having sex among the wreckage. Yes, Balthier lifted and carried Fran with great care - he is undoubtedly devoted to her - but that does not prove that they are in a romantic relationship. Better evidence would be that they live and work together, understand one another extremely well (to the point where Balthier is able to finish Fran's sentences), Fran apparently sacrificed some of her innate Viera abilities (such as the ability to understand the forests?) in order to travel with him - she ran away with him, basically (which sounds awfully romantic....:heart:), the forest now hates "the one who took her away", or something, they seem to be quite physically intimate > http://forums.eyesonff.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20934&d=1142660580 (just look at his groping hand! and that smirk!), and some people have translated that after Fran is tied up and breaks loose and goes berserk, Balthier remarks that he "always thought she liked being tied up"...or something along those lines.

N.B.: I got most of this information from fan-made translations of the game, which are unofficial and not entirely trustworthy. I wouldn't swear by the validity of any of the evidence I have listed.

However, I get the general impression that Fran and Balthier behave like a married couple, even if they aren't officially together. She is yin to his yang, and all that. :lovers:

[nobuteru]

the translation, i feel, could really sway this one way or the other...for example if there is a scene where Fran yells "Balthier!" If the translators feel like emphasizing the romantic qualities of their relationship, they would have the voice actor say it with maybe concern, longing, fear, etc...if they wanted to detract from this possibility, they could have the voice actor say it nonchalantly (it's like the vw commercial (i think it's vw, here at uni, i live in a vacuum) where the only word they say in the commercial is "dude" but each time it has an entirely different meaning

[boys from the dwarf]

another reason i dont think fran and balthier will be together because vieras live for around 300 years unless im mistaken.

[scooby]

Originally Posted by boys from the dwarf
another reason i dont think fran and balthier will be together is because viera live for around 300 years unless im mistaken.No - you're quite correct. (Although, 200 years would be closer to the mark - but that's quibbling.) But, to quote Lord Alfred Tennyson, "It is better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all." Balthier would of course die, eventually, and Fran would live on for a while longer (unless something happened to her first). Balthier is only 22 though, so his death is quite far off yet.

But, to return to my favourite comparison: Arwen knew that she would outlive Aragorn when she pledged her love to him, but she accepted this harsh reality as part and parcel of a relationship with him. Fran, like Arwen, would just have to live with the knowledge that, sooner or later, she would have to watch her lover die.

There is always the risk of somebody dying. Fear of losing shouldn't stop us from acting.

[Sashi]

scooby, where did you get that Fran/Balthier picture from? I have seen that picture before, but not at that size.

[nobuteru]

i couldn't have thought of a better example...but now i'm imagining an inconsolable fran, pining to death after the death of bal...so sad...

[scooby]

scooby, where did you get that Fran/Balthier picture from? I have seen that picture before, but not at that size.DLLS posted it on the first page of the thread, so you'd have to ask him/her. It's from the credits. Gorgeous, isn't it? They look so...coupley, in it.

[Ballistix Man]

Fran in heat :laugh:

[scooby]

Fran in heat :laugh:Er.... The point of this post? Other than to try to further dehumanize Fran...?
Originally Posted by nobuteru
the translation, i feel, could really sway this one way or the other...for example if there is a scene where Fran yells "Balthier!" If the translators feel like emphasizing the romantic qualities of their relationship, they would have the voice actor say it with maybe concern, longing, fear, etc...if they wanted to detract from this possibility, they could have the voice actor say it nonchalantly (it's like the vw commercial (i think it's vw, here at uni, i live in a vacuum) where the only word they say in the commercial is "dude" but each time it has an entirely different meaningI'm not familiar with your example. But an often cited example of discrepancy between the Japanese and English versions of the FF games can be found in FFX: in the Japanese game, Yuna says "thank you" to Tidus at the end - but this was changed to "I love you" in the English game. Now...that's a pretty big change! There's quite a difference between thanking someone and telling them that you love them!

[Fynn]

Coming back to you comparing Fran to arwen, scooby, didn't Arwen give up her immortality for Aragorn? I mean, she was a half-elf, so she could do that.... At least that's what my mom told me, and she's a HUGE fan of LotR.

[scooby]

Coming back to you comparing Fran to Arwen, scooby, didn't Arwen give up her immortality for Aragorn? I mean, she was a half-elf, so she could do that.... At least that's what my mom told me, and she's a HUGE fan of LotR.Just so you know, I dusted off my old and battered copy of LOTR just to answer your question. :)

Okay, it's kind of complicated.... *sigh* Arwen did forsake her immortality to be with Aragorn; that fact is reiterated many times throughout the book. But she still outlived Aragorn - as was her fate. To quote from the book (Appendix A, 'The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen'), "But Arwen became as a mortal woman, and yet it was not her lot to die until all that she had gained was lost." Arwen knew this would be her fate, because her father, Elrond, who had the gift of foresight, had long foretold it. Yet, despite her foreknowledge, she found it a bitter pill to swallow at the coming.

'Then Aragorn said to Arwen:
"At last, Lady Evenstar, fairest in this world, and most beloved,
my world is fading. Lo! we have gathered, and we have spent, and now the time of payment draws near."
Arwen knew what he intended, and long had foreseen it; nonetheless she was overborne by her grief.'

And:

'"Lady Undomiel," said Aragorn, "the hour is indeed hard, yet it was made even in that day when we met under the white birches in the garden of Elrond where none now walk. And on the hill of Cerin Amroth when we forsook both the Shadow and the Twilight this doom we accepted."'

After Aragorn's death, Arwen bade farewell to the rest of her family and her loved ones, and left the city of Minas Tirith, where she had reigned with Aragorn for 120 years, forever. She returned to Lorien - the elven kingdom - which was now deserted, for all of the elves had departed overseas, and "dwelt there alone under the fading trees until winter came". The following spring, she laid herself to rest upon the hill of Cerin Amroth (where she and Aragorn had pledged their troth), and died.

....Cheery tale, really.... He was a fun-lovin' guy, that Tolkien!

So, to summarize: Arwen did become a mortal, but she did not die of old age; she died of a broken heart. :cry: The deal was that she could live happily with Aragorn until his death (he was long-lived anyway, being one of the Dunedain), at which point her own slow demise would begin. Thereafter, she was destined to wander the world alone until she perished from grief....:whimper:.... :crying:

Rather different from Fran, I suppose - but similar in many ways.

[ekinserge]

for those who don't understand japanese, just wait for the english version...after you have finish it, then you will know their relationship...

[nobuteru]

Coming back to you comparing Fran to arwen, scooby, didn't Arwen give up her immortality for Aragorn? I mean, she was a half-elf, so she could do that.... At least that's what my mom told me, and she's a HUGE fan of LotR.

scooby did a good job of covering this, but i have one more thing to add...arwen is not half elf, she is 3/4 elf...her father was elrond and her mother was celebrian, daughter of galadriel and celeborn...but the elf vs human thing is really tricky...elrond had a brother, elros (also half human/half elf) and they were both given the choice to pick with which side they would identify. Elrond chose to be elven and elros chose to be man. It is from elros's side that the dunedain of numenor began and that is why aragorn has a longer life b/c he has elf blood in his lineage...i say that the matter is tricky b/c "being" elf seems to require more than just lineage. It seems like a bit of a choice is involved...anywho, being the lotr dork that i am, i just had to throw that in there... ;)

[The Soup Nazi]

I think they get together.


[TOTALLY OFF TOPIC PART OF POST]
And I dunno why,every time I see either Balthier or Fran,I think of Pulp Fiction:

Fran:"I love you,Balthie!"

Balthier: "And I love you,Franny Bunny!"

Balthier: "Everybody be cool this is a robbery!

Fran:"ANY OF YOU ******* *****S MOVE AND I'LL EXECUTE EVERY MOTHER******* LAST ONE OF YOU!!!"

*cue in the pulp fiction theme*

Crazy,huh?

[END TOTALLY OFF TOPIC PART OF POST]

[scooby]

[TOTALLY OFF TOPIC PART OF POST]
And I dunno why,every time I see either Balthier or Fran,I think of Pulp Fiction:

Fran:"I love you, Balthie!"

Balthier: "And I love you, Franny Bunny!"

Balthier: "Everybody be cool this is a robbery!

Fran:"ANY OF YOU ******* *****S MOVE AND I'LL EXECUTE EVERY MOTHER******* LAST ONE OF YOU!!!"

*cue in the pulp fiction theme*

Crazy, huh?

[END TOTALLY OFF TOPIC PART OF POST]:laugh:

Not as crazy as it sounds, actually.... Fran and Balthier are "partners in crime", after all. Sort of like the Bonnie and Clyde of Final Fantasy....

Here's a Fran/Balthier (and Vaan) cutscene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fbmYp5Vztc) from the game (minor SPOILERS, EDIT: and now in English!!!). You'll notice that their approach to thievery is not quite as...violent as Yolanda and Ringo's, or Bonnie and Clyde's - but it still gets the job done (well, not in this case, as Vaan gets away...but still.... *coughs*).

[La Boomsikashod]

Yeah, Fran and Balflear does seems more like working partners in the game. The way they talk to each other doesn't indicate much deeper relationship. But then Balflear always would talk like that. There are hints at Ashe/Balflear though, especially in the ending.

[Shiny]

I think there will obviously be love interests in the game, but the oversized rabbit and that guy ain't it. That's just sick. If Square wanted a mixed race relationship then they could atleast make both characters humes.

[~SapphireStar~]

I think there will obviously be love interests in the game, but the oversized rabbit and that guy ain't it. That's just sick. If Square wanted a mixed race relationship then they could atleast make both characters humes.
Well what about Zidane and Garnet? Zidane wasnt human with his monkey tail, but still love blossomed. Its not sick because Fran's people are a race in the game living amongst the humes. Its a bizzare world that Square has created. The game is called Final Fantasy, so anything can happen.

[Shiny]

I disliked the Zidane and Garnet relationship as well, but it made more sense for them to be together. They were both pretty un-human like. Zidane with his Dragon Ball Z tail and Garnet with her oversized head. They made the perfect weird pair.

[TurkSlayer]

Of course they get together. Square can be fairly predictable with these things, and they obviously intend for Balthier and Fran to get together.

Personally, I don't see why their relationship is so controversial. Who cares if its a mixed species relationship? Its done all the time in fantasies, particularly D&D. There are half elfs, half humans all the time, among other things.

[scooby]

Yeah, Fran and Balflear does seems more like working partners in the game. The way they talk to each other doesn't indicate much deeper relationship. But then Balflear always would talk like that. There are hints at Ashe/Balflear though, especially in the ending.Have you played the game?

There are hints that Ashe - a lonely bereaved queen - has developed a crush on Balthier by the end of the game, but there are no hints that he reciprocates her feelings at all. In fact, he acts rather blasé about her perceived crush - as though having women, including queens, fall for him is nothing new. I expect it isn't; Balthier is good-looking, charming and charismatic - it's natural that women should fall for him.

Fran made a HUGE sacrifice to be with Balthier; the choice she made - to leave her village to be with him - has had irrevocable consequences for her: she will never be accepted back into her village, or see her family and friends again. She is now an outcast; all she has is Balthier.

Of course, Fran longed for freedom and adventure - but the dialogue in the scenes in Fran's village/Golmore Jungle suggest that Balthier himself was the main reason that Fran abandoned her past (which is NOT something you do for just anyone):

FRAN WALKS WITH BALTHIER.

Balthier: Taking the shortcut?

Fran: Yes.

Balthier: Didn't you abandon your past?

Fran: There's no other way. I'm doing this for you, too.

Balthier: Hmm?

Fran: You're anxious, aren't you? The Nethicite's making you that way. It shows on your face more than you think.



YUTO LISTENS TO THE VOICE OF THE FOREST.

Yuto: It only feels nostalgia for you who left the village.

Fran: I'm happy even for the lie.

Yuto: Be careful. What the forest hates is the Hume who took you away.

Fran: I'm the same as a Hume now. Isn't that right? Goodbye, sister.


There is also a scene that I found to be very shippy.... It was up on YouTube, but it's been taken down.

Here is a description of said scene:

Fran is lying on her back, talking to Balthier, who bends over her. Her words are slow, pained (is she wounded?), and one of her hands is cupping his cheek. She smiles weakly up at him. The camera cuts to Balthier, who gazes down at her lovingly. He gently pulls her hand from his face and clasps it with his own. He smiles sadly and closes his eyes - looking both deathly afraid and "blissed out".


This is the dialogue from that scene:

Penelo: Fran!?

Fran: The mist is burning... the cocoon...throbbing... burst!

Fran: The cocoon will explode... get out of here... as fast as you can.

Balthier: Hey, Fran....

Fran: Show me how fast you can run... You're Balthier, the quickest sky pirate of all... aren't you?

Balthier: Don't leave me now.


The look in Balthier's eyes in this scene cannot be said to be anything but deep, burning love.

In addition to this, Balthier is rather possessive of Fran at times. He tells Vaan off for gawping at her when they first meet.

How could the small amount of physical chemistry between Ashe and Balthier possibly compete with the long history and deep love and trust that Fran and Balthier share?

Most everyone who's played the game thinks that there is something "more" between Fran and Bal.

[Shiny]

Wow. Well there you go. Square is really predictable. Am I the only one who thinks that it seems like Beastilly?

[nobuteru]

the last time i checked beastilly wasn't a word...

[FallenAngel411]

Wow. Well there you go. Square is really predictable. Am I the only one who thinks that it seems like Beastilly?


I'm sure you're not. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who looks at them like any other couple.

[Shiny]

the last time i checked beastilly wasn't a word...
It's a term used to describe humans who have sex with animals or atleast that's what I checked.

EDIT: Bestiality that's it!

[scooby]

the last time i checked beastilly wasn't a word...
It's a term used to describe humans who have sex with animals or at least that's what I checked."Beastilly" is not a word. I think you meant to write "bestiality", which is a word used to describe sexual relations between a human and an animal. But as neither Fran nor Balthier is an "animal" (at least not one more than the other), I don't see why you're bringing the subject of bestiality into this topic.

[nobuteru]

the last time i checked beastilly wasn't a word...
It's a term used to describe humans who have sex with animals or atleast that's what I checked.

EDIT: Bestiality that's it!

i'm not quite sure why a relationship between a hume and a viera should bother anyone. think about it; it would only be "bestiality" if a human had sex with a hume, or if a human had sex with a viera, etc..., right? But, since ff12 takes place in a fictional universe w/o humans (as far as we know) there's no such thing as bestiality by the definition you came up with. in fact, since it is a fictional universe, couldn't you (mis)construe "bestiality" as vieras sleeping with humes, rather than humes sleeping with vieras? the point is, i think, that there is no defense on the grounds of bestiality for protesting a relationship between fran and balthier.

[Shiny]

i'm not quite sure why a relationship between a hume and a viera should bother anyone. think about it; it would only be "bestiality" if a human had sex with a hume, or if a human had sex with a viera, etc..., right? But, since ff12 takes place in a fictional universe w/o humans (as far as we know) there's no such thing as bestiality by the definition you came up with. in fact, since it is a fictional universe, couldn't you (mis)construe "bestiality" as vieras sleeping with humes, rather than humes sleeping with vieras? the point is, i think, that there is no defense on the grounds of bestiality for protesting a relationship between fran and balthier.
I thought humes were equivalent to humans. And viera were some type of half hume, half animalistic race.

[nobuteru]

if we were going to get technical we'd have to take a look at their genetic make up, right? ;) but, i think the fact still remains that ivalice is a fictitious world without humans...if squenix wanted humes to be humans then they would have called them that. so, in short, i think that since humes aren't humans there is no case for bestiality. for it to be bestiality humes and humans would have to be the same thing.

[scooby]

I think you're both missing the point, here. Humes are the same as humans. But for the Fran/Balthier coupling to involve bestiality, Fran would have to be an animal - instead of the elf-like human woman with rabbit ears (i.e. Viera) that she is. Really, are a creature's ears such a big part of them? If Fran was a rabbit with human ears (hard to picture, I know), would people be calling her a human/half-human?

[FallenAngel411]

Oh my. They are a VIDEOGAME COUPLE. Why are people so up in arms like this is some kind of gay marriage issue? o.O It makes no sense to me. If you're offended by them, don't let them into your heart. Or uh, don't buy the game.

[a nirvana fan]

Well every FF has some romance(Cloud & Tifa, Zidane & Dagger etc) so this one shouldnt be no different.

[scooby]

Well every FF has some romance (Cloud & Tifa, Zidane & Dagger etc.), so this one shouldn't be any different.I don't think that FFs I, II, III and XI have any (significant) romance, but I'm not sure - I have yet to play them. And neither does FFVII, as far as I'm concerned.

[nobuteru]

I think you're both missing the point, here. Humes are the same as humans. But for the Fran/Balthier coupling to involve bestiality, Fran would have to be an animal - instead of the elf-like human woman with rabbit ears (i.e. Viera) that she is. Really, are a creature's ears such a big part of them? If Fran was a rabbit with human ears (hard to picture, I know), would people be calling her a human/half-human?

i think you've missed the point. do explain to me how humes and humans are the same? then, you can explain to me how fran is half human half whatever (rabbit, i would presume you'd say). and if fran was shaped like a bunny but with human ears, then we would call her whatever the authors of that fictitious universe named her. balthier is not human. the people at squenix seem like a relatively smart and logical bunch to me. it isn't that hard to spell the word human. not much harder than the word hume. i like to think people make choices like that for a reason. my case is simple. there is no argument for bestiality on the grounds of balthier being human and fran being something else. i also don't think it's nearly the big deal with massive moral implications that people are making it into. it's a video game. i thought this thread would discuss the possiblity of the relationship on other grounds. the way you'd discuss the possiblity of a relationship between say vaan and penelo.

[scooby]

I think you're both missing the point, here. Humes are the same as humans. But for the Fran/Balthier coupling to involve bestiality, Fran would have to be an animal - instead of the elf-like human woman with rabbit ears (i.e. Viera) that she is. Really, are a creature's ears such a big part of them? If Fran was a rabbit with human ears (hard to picture, I know), would people be calling her a human/half-human?i think you've missed the point. do explain to me how humes and humans are the same? then, you can explain to me how fran is half human half whatever (rabbit, i would presume you'd say). and if fran was shaped like a bunny but with human ears, then we would call her whatever the authors of that fictitious universe named her. balthier is not human. the people at squenix seem like a relatively smart and logical bunch to me. it isn't that hard to spell the word human. not much harder than the word hume. i like to think people make choices like that for a reason. my case is simple. there is no argument for bestiality on the grounds of balthier being human and fran being something else. i also don't think it's nearly the big deal with massive moral implications that people are making it into. it's a video game. i thought this thread would discuss the possibility of the relationship on other grounds. the way you'd discuss the possibility of a relationship between say vaan and penelo.WHAT?!?! :confused: You've completely misunderstood me!!! We're in agreement, here! Please read what I wrote again! I agree that there are no grounds on which to claim that Fran/Balthier is bestiality! The only reason I'm discussing this at all is because people keep bringing it up; I'm defending the couple! I was saying that I DO NOT think that Fran is "half-rabbit" or "half-animal", as I don't think that ears make up half of a creature. She's more like...2% rabbit. I put forth the "rabbit with human ears" scenario as an inverse example - to try to illustrate how ears are a very minor body part.

I do think that "Humes" are pretty much humans under a different name.... But it wouldn't matter even if they were - because Fran is not an animal or a "half-animal", anyway!

That is what I was saying.

And believe me, I would happily move on to discussing something else in this thread!

[atlanteay]

ok then, so baltheir was shown in teh end with a baby right? does anyone have a video showing that part? i've only seen teh parts when penelo was explaining how everyone got their good endings and nothing about the credits and after the credits.

oya...about bestiality, it's is a Final Fantasy so it might be possible for a human and viera to go together. After all, Hojo from ff7 wanted to try something with aeris and red xiii if i remember correctly. i'm pretty sure red xiii is an animal. So if full animals and a human can be experimented why not a part 2% bunny (according to scooby) and a human like race called Hume?

[scooby]

ok then, so balthier was shown in teh end with a baby right? does anyone have a video showing that part? i've only seen teh parts when penelo was explaining how everyone got their good endings and nothing about the credits and after the credits. :eek: Mark your post with SPOILER tags, please! I want this thread to remain relatively spoiler-free.

I hope the bottom of this post answers your question (spoiler-tagged): http://forums.eyesonff.com/showpost.php?p=1652242&postcount=56

[atlanteay]

im so sorry:(
oops. must've missed that link in that long post of yours:p

it says on this site (http://www.ffcompilation.co.uk/)that they're planning a ffxii-2. Maybe a sequal would clear up about balthier and fran affairs

[nobuteru]

I think you're both missing the point, here. Humes are the same as humans. But for the Fran/Balthier coupling to involve bestiality, Fran would have to be an animal - instead of the elf-like human woman with rabbit ears (i.e. Viera) that she is. Really, are a creature's ears such a big part of them? If Fran was a rabbit with human ears (hard to picture, I know), would people be calling her a human/half-human?i think you've missed the point. do explain to me how humes and humans are the same? then, you can explain to me how fran is half human half whatever (rabbit, i would presume you'd say). and if fran was shaped like a bunny but with human ears, then we would call her whatever the authors of that fictitious universe named her. balthier is not human. the people at squenix seem like a relatively smart and logical bunch to me. it isn't that hard to spell the word human. not much harder than the word hume. i like to think people make choices like that for a reason. my case is simple. there is no argument for bestiality on the grounds of balthier being human and fran being something else. i also don't think it's nearly the big deal with massive moral implications that people are making it into. it's a video game. i thought this thread would discuss the possibility of the relationship on other grounds. the way you'd discuss the possibility of a relationship between say vaan and penelo.WHAT?!?! :confused: You've completely misunderstood me!!! We're in agreement, here! Please read what I wrote again! I agree that there are no grounds on which to claim that Fran/Balthier is bestiality! The only reason I'm discussing this at all is because people keep bringing it up; I'm defending the couple! I was saying that I DO NOT think that Fran is "half-rabbit" or "half-animal", as I don't think that ears make up half of a creature. She's more like...2% rabbit. I put forth the "rabbit with human ears" scenario as an inverse example - to try to illustrate how ears are a very minor body part.

I do think that "Humes" are pretty much humans under a different name.... But it wouldn't matter even if they were - because Fran is not an animal or a "half-animal", anyway!

That is what I was saying.

And believe me, I would happily move on to discussing something else in this thread!

sorry about that. my misunderstanding. i'm glad someone agrees with me, though ;)

[atlanteay]

ok then, so balthier was shown in teh end with a baby right? does anyone have a video showing that part? i've only seen teh parts when penelo was explaining how everyone got their good endings and nothing about the credits and after the credits. :eek: Mark your post with SPOILER tags, please! I want this thread to remain relatively spoiler-free.

I hope the bottom of this post answers your question (spoiler-tagged): http://forums.eyesonff.com/showpost.php?p=1652242&postcount=56

do you have a video of that scene with the baby?? i've heard people talk about the scene but i want to see it myself and that post only has teh ending without credits. Not how balthier and fran were trapped inside the thing and balthier holding fran because she got hit by a falling object

[scooby]

do you have a video of that scene with the baby?? i've heard people talk about the scene but i want to see it myself and that post only has teh ending without credits. Not how balthier and fran were trapped inside the thing and balthier holding fran because she got hit by a falling objectIt was briefly up on YouTube for a short time after the game was released in Japan - that's how I got to see it - but it's been down for a while now. Sorry. I guess you'll either have to see if someone else puts it on YouTube, or just wait until the English game is released in October - to see it for yourself.

The picture of Fran and Bal that DLLS posted on the first page of the thread is a coloured version of the one from the credits. All of the pictures seen during the credits are sepia-toned - probably to illustrate that they are from the past. Other images seen include: one of Vaan and Penelo hanging out on the streets with some other orphans, one of Ashe (but I can't remember what she was doing), one of the young man with glasses (believed to be Cid) cradling a baby in his arms, and a couple of a trio of young Viera (likely Fran and her two sisters) - putting their heads together in one, and peering through a window in the other.

Because I'm feeling generous :D, I'm going to attach a few nice pictures of Fran and Bal to this post :cool:. I love them sooooo much. :heart:



Edited to add: You're in luck! I found a video of the credits! Download it at this URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRMM9_9t7D4

I also found a few more pictures from the credits (in their original sepia tone):

Ashe (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/themasterll/FF12/FFXII_Sketch01.jpg)
Lord Rasler (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/themasterll/FF12/FFXII_Sketch03.jpg)
Vayne and Larsa (http://www.windy-days.net/larsa/artwork/ffxii_credits.jpg) (courtesy of Fior di Battaglia (http://www.windy-days.net/larsa/index.php))
Cid and baby Balthier (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/themasterll/FF12/FFXII_Sketch02.jpg)

Credit for all of the above pictures goes to Master LL's Videos - except where noted.

[atlanteay]

thank you so much!!:love: those are such cute pictures. I love the artist's drawings.

thanks for the video. Those pictures really show fran and balthier are close friends.:D

[scooby]

Those pictures really show fran and balthier are close friends.:D Yes, they are the best of friends - soulmates even - and more.... Those pictures may appear entirely platonic, but from all that I've seen and read - including the opinions and reviews of people who've finished the game - I get the impression that Fran and Balthier are already together. I think that she fell in love with him years before the game begins, and ran away with him for a life of high-flyin' piratey goodness. Just think: all of that time alone together in that big, empty airship.... I wonder how they pass the time.... *whistles*

"...the Hume who took you away..."
"...I'm the same as that Hume [Balthier] now..."
"...I did it for you [Balthier]..."
....Fran, don't leave me now..." [Balthier knelt beside her, with his eyes closed, gently holding her hand]
"...Fran can tell all there is to know about a man just by looking at him..."
"...hey! thief boy [Vaan] - never seen a Viera before?!..." [Balthier - possessively]
"...is it hard having a second woman [Ashe], Balthier...?..."
"...Viera and Hume partners are quite rare, actually..." [Balthier - proudly]

Besides - they had better be together forever, because Fran gave up everything for him! She has no-one else to turn to, now....

[atlanteay]

aww that's so cute. I;m starting to like Balthier more and more. He always reminded me of a player sort of person like Irvine:rolleyes2

so now i'm just concerned about whether balthier and fran died or not

[Dynast-Kid]

So Fran and Balthier end up together.I thought that Balthier was gonna end up being gay.I mean,haven't you guys seen his rainbow colored rings and bracelets!Not that homosexuality is a bad thing(I mean if I was in Fran's position I'd leave my life to be with Balthier anyday:)That was just my 1st conclusion.I was kinda expecting a Balthier-Vaan relationship!But I really like this Fran-Balthier thing!Inter-species relationships are hot!:D

[scooby]

So Fran and Balthier end up together.I wouldn't say that they "end up together", but I'm 99% sure that they're in love. The only official romantic relationship in this game is between Ashe and Lord Rasler (who is two years dead when the game begins). But Fran/Balthier and Vaan/Penelo are both heavily implied.
I thought that Balthier was gonna end up being gay.Hardly! Balthier loves women! And wine! And fashion! He's a textbook dandy. ;)

I don't think that Square-Enix has the gall to include a genuinely "gay" character in one of their games. Not in a significant role, anyway. That'll be the day! I think that Mukki - a rather ludicrous NPC - is the best we're gonna get.... It's sad. Gay/bisexual/pansexual/transgendered people are seriously underrepresented in video games. I wish the wide spectrum of human sexuality was explored more in the medium.... But, alas, the first gay main character in FF (if there ever is one) ain't gonna be Balthier!
I mean, haven't you guys seen his rainbow colored rings and bracelets!Yes - I love his jewellery.
(I mean if I was in Fran's position I'd leave my life to be with Balthier any day :)).Tell me about it! I wish a dashing and debonair pirate would come and steal me away from my family! Then I could live with him on his airship forever more.... Sounds like a dream.... *sigh*

[Shiny]

That is cute. I guess this is going to be more like a mixed race relationship rather then mixed speicies then. Thanks, scooby for the pics and dialogue bit. I hope he isn't one of those playboy types or it will ruin the whole romance thing they seem to have.

[Dynast-Kid]

So Ashe was really in love with Rasler?I thought that since they had a forced marriage(supposedly) that she really didn't care for him that much.And isn't Rasler the prince of Nalbadia? Because I saw the opening curscene on some site(You Tube I think)and I saw thatDalmasca and Nalbadia were fighting on the Dalmasca/Nalbadia border and then Rasler died yada yada.The impression I got was that Dalmasca was in a conflict with Nalbadia,but I guess thats not the case.I just thought it was weird that the Emperor would marry his daughter off to a rival nation's prince.But wait...Ashe's dad,Emperor Dalmasca, is dead right?!!?It's actually the Archadian Emperor,right?...

*ughh*You know what,I am really confusing myself!I know this has little to do with Fran and Balthier, but would someone clarify the plot for me?

[scooby]

So Ashe was really in love with Rasler? I thought that since they had a forced marriage (supposedly) that she really didn't care for him that much. And isn't Rasler the prince of Nalbadia? Because I saw the opening cutscene on some site (YouTube I think) and I saw that Dalmasca and Nalbadia were fighting on the Dalmasca/Nalbadia border and then Rasler died yada yada. The impression I got was that Dalmasca was in a conflict with Nalbadia, but I guess that’s not the case. I just thought it was weird that the Emperor would marry his daughter off to a rival nation's prince. But wait... Ashe's dad, Emperor Dalmasca, is dead right?!!? It's actually the Archadian Emperor, right?...

*ughh* You know what, I am really confusing myself! I know this has little to do with Fran and Balthier, but would someone clarify the plot for me?Okay. Ashe and Rasler were in an arranged marriage - to establish a political alliance between the neighbouring kingdoms of Nabradia (Rasler's kingdom) and Dalmasca (Ashe's kingdom). These two kingdoms were not at war with one another prior to their marriage.

I believe that Ashe truly loved Rasler, though (and vice versa) - despite the fact that her marriage to him was arranged. Sometimes people can be happy within an arranged marriage; sometimes they can work out well for both spouses. Ashe seemed very happy and content on her wedding day. And when Rasler died she was distraught: she wept at his funeral, and even fell to her knees with grief beside his coffin.

Two years later, she is still mourning him. Her heart is heavy with grief over the deaths of both Rasler and her father. Ashe has flashbacks of Rasler throughout the game. In one, we see them share this exchange:


RASLER IS STOOD ON THE BALCONY OF THE PALACE, OVERLOOKING THE CITY OF DALMASCA. ASHE COMES THROUGH THE DOOR BEHIND HIM, AND APPROACHS HIM TENTATIVELY.

Rasler: Our marriage is a symbol of the union between Nabradia and Dalmasca. That's what everyone is saying.

Ashe: A symbol?

Rasler: My duty as part of the royal family. It's tiring playing a part.

ASHE LAYS A HAND OVER RASLER'S HAND. HE LOOKS AT HER.

Ashe: I'll honor it.

Rasler: I'm glad it was you.

RASLER SMILES AT ASHE VERY WARMLY INDEED. A WHITE LIGHT BEGINS TO ENVELOP HIM AS THE FLASHBACK ENDS.


So...you can see that Ashe remembers Rasler very fondly. She also still wears her wedding ring - and treasures it. There is a whole subplot involving the wedding ring, but I won't divulge it (unless you want me to! :p).

Lastly, Ashe sees Rasler's "ghost" many times throughout the game. (The "ghost" is actually an apparition created by an enemy force, using Rasler's image in an attempt to play with Ashe's emotions and manipulate her.)

[Dynast-Kid]

thanks scooby that really cleared things up for me

[scooby]

You're very welcome. :bigsmile:

I think it's time for some more Fran/Balthier media! :D

The incredibly shippy Fran/Balthier scene that I described earlier in the thread: ("Fran is lying on her back, talking to Balthier, who bends over her. Her words are slow, pained (is she wounded?), and one of her hands is cupping his cheek. She smiles weakly up at him. The camera cuts to Balthier, who gazes down at her lovingly. He gently pulls her hand from his face and clasps it with his own. He smiles sadly and closes his eyes - looking both deathly afraid and "blissed out") can now be downloaded here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP6osZD6bQM).

Video details: MAJOR SPOILERS!, vid is 09:52 mins long (includes battle with Cid), (poorly) subtitled in English, "the scene" begins at 07:13 mins into the video.

I'm playing FFVI for the first time at the moment (and enjoying it immensely :)), and I took serious note of the interspecies relationship between Terra's parents - Madonna (a human woman) and Maduin (a male Esper). So, the whole "interspecific couple" thing has been done before in a FF! People aren't prejudiced against Terra for being a half-breed! And I've never seen Madonna and Maduin condemned for their love! Why can't people be as tolerant of Fran/Balthier!?

[vegiesatan]

hmm. is there a trick to the link for the video? every time i click on it i just go to the filefront home page. what do i need to do in order to see the video (besides waiting till fall and buying the game)? i've become too addicted to fran and balthier *sigh*. ha. in fact i was about to pass up on ffxii entirely until i saw the renders of fran and balthier (first impression was - :O_O: omg. they're the hottest ff characters ever! XD).

[Dynast-Kid]

yeah they totally are the hottest!

[scooby]

hmm. is there a trick to the link for the video? every time i click on it i just go to the filefront home page. what do i need to do in order to see the video (besides waiting till fall and buying the game)? i've become too addicted to fran and balthier *sigh*. ha. in fact i was about to pass up on ffxii entirely until i saw the renders of fran and balthier (first impression was - :O_O: omg. they're the hottest ff characters ever! XD).I've recently been doing some thread maintenance - fixing dead links, etc. - and I noticed that there are problems with the FileFront links. For some reason, they are all redirecting to the FileFront homepage.... :confused:

I'm working on fixing this. I'll update if I make any progress.

In the meantime, you can drool over the scrumptious Fran/Balthier pictures that I've attached to this post. Yes! More pictures!!! :D Don't I just spoil you guys rotten?! :p

[Dynast-Kid]

yay!more pics.Is it just me or are the FF12 cast more...attractive than the other FF characters...which is interesting since FF12 has a lower polygonal count than the last few

[vegiesatan]

Yea... they are ridiculously more attractive than previous FF characters. Maybe it's just Akihiko Yoshida's aesthetics (to make them all look like pretty girls with the only differentiating factor being the body). I mean that pic with Vaan, Fran, and Ashe - who'll agree with me when I say that if Vaan had a female body, he'd be the prettiest in the game? But I still love Yoshida's artwork! even his Tactics people who don't have noses XD He makes me want to devote endless hours drawing Fran and Balthier. *hmmm slightly off-topic - sorry*

[Dynast-Kid]

these guys are way attractive...(have you seen Vaan's bro Reks-he totally looks like a chick!)...but alas...they are nothing more than groups and mounds of pixels...*sheds tear*

[scooby]

I'm posting to say that while I haven't been able to fix the FileFront links (grrrr! :mad:), somebody has uploaded the ending credits (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRMM9_9t7D4) onto YouTube - so y'all can view them there, now. It's something, at least....

al-bhed_kid0827: I LOVE your sig!!! :hyper:

I should really think about getting a Fran/Balthier-related sig....

[Aria28]

I agree with Scooby here, al-bhed_kid0827, your sig is wonderful!

Been catching up on the thread some: I am personally more of a Balthier/Ashe fan, but Fran/Balthier works for me too :) In the end, I think what's great in that FF is that possible relationships are mostly hinted at, which in a way makes them more interesting, at least to me. And it's perfect for fanfic writing, LOL So many possibilities!

[Dynast-Kid]

Thanks!I got Owen Macwere to make it for me since I don't have the right tools to make my own sigs.

I can't wait for this game to come out!Just like,2 and a half monthes...

['Gilgamesh']

I think they are just really close partners. It kind of reminds me of a Mal and Zoe partnership for those that have seen Firefly.

[Dynast-Kid]

I am personally more of a Balthier/Ashe fan, but Fran/Balthier works for me too :) In the end, I think what's great in that FF is that possible relationships are mostly hinted at, which in a way makes them more interesting, at least to me. And it's perfect for fanfic writing, LOL So many possibilities!

Hmmm...I never really liked the idea of Ashe/Balthier.Just doesn't work for me.

And you're not alone in your view of relationships.I love hinted at relationships.Especially Paine/Rikku...O_o.So many hints,yet no one else really noticed them.

[Aria28]

I am personally more of a Balthier/Ashe fan, but Fran/Balthier works for me too :) In the end, I think what's great in that FF is that possible relationships are mostly hinted at, which in a way makes them more interesting, at least to me. And it's perfect for fanfic writing, LOL So many possibilities!

Hmmm...I never really liked the idea of Ashe/Balthier.Just doesn't work for me.

And you're not alone in your view of relationships.I love hinted at relationships.Especially Paine/Rikku...O_o.So many hints,yet no one else really noticed them.

Ooooh, interesting! I'd ask you to develop if we weren't on a FF XII thread, but on a FF X-2 one ;) I'm not usually into f/f or m/m pairings, but getting away from the usual is always nice

[Dynast-Kid]

If you don't like f/f m/m pairings,stay away from www.fanfiction.net.
It's filled to the brim with Sora/Riku yaoi.I stay away from that place now...

Anyway,you've played the game right?Is there really a Fran/Balthier/Ashe love triangle?

[Aria28]

If you don't like f/f m/m pairings,stay away from www.fanfiction.net.
It's filled to the brim with Sora/Riku yaoi.I stay away from that place now...

Anyway,you've played the game right?Is there really a Fran/Balthier/Ashe love triangle?

LOL Well, I don't mind reading them, I've just never been able to write them ;)

Hmmm, well, one thing for sure is that there is no sense of competition at any point between Fran and Ashe, so it's not formally a love triangle. I imagine that this notion comes from the long and great friendship, as well as the complicity that's so obvious between Fran and Balflear (here I'm sure Scooby would say it's love that's obvious, LOL): there sure is tenderness there, but whether it is love or a beautiful friendship is never clear. I know there are tender gestures between them, but then it's nothing I haven't seen between true friends either

Then there's what's developing between Ashe and Balflear, although I don't think it could possibly be love, at least not until the very end, but even that is very debatable. Balflear sure goes to great lengths to help her "cut her ties from the past" that prevent her from taking the right decision. You understand at one point that at first it was for personal reasons as well, but not only, and he feels very comfortable with her towards the last third of the story: to say she's her love interest in the game would be too much of a stretch though. Ashe sure cares for him a lot in the end, and my interpretation is that she's at least a little infatuated with him. Whether he does reprociate the feeling at this point is impossible to tell - there's no clear sign that could be interpreted in that way. Unless you give a certain meaning to the whole ring subplot - I have a friend who's got a wonderful theory about it, LOL

Also, something interesting is that when the whole party stands together in a given situation, Balflear either stands by Fran or by Ashe, and that's pretty much 50/50, at least in the last third.

In the end, I think the writers of the story deliberately left things open for interpretation, and that you see what you want to see between Fran and Balflear on one hand, and Balflear and Ashe on the other, interprete the various signals the way you want. But if you're 100% objective, there's no clear hint one way or the other. The only thing that's clear is that they greatly care for each other

Now, like I've said here and elsewhere, I certainly am more of a Balflear/Ashe shipper, but that's in terms of potential and because that's the relationship I'd be most interested in writing about, but I doesn't mean I think that, in the game, they are an item. I rather like the way things are



Now of course, I cannot possible say if that will apply to the translation. Change a few words or tone of voice used, and things can take a whole other meaning :D

[Dynast-Kid]

Hmmm...

Maybe the NA version will feature a love triangle...

[scooby]

Is there really a Fran/Balthier/Ashe love triangle?Hmmm, well, one thing for sure is that there is no sense of competition at any point between Fran and Ashe, so it's not formally a love triangle....Except for when Fran asks Balthier what it's like to have a "second woman" (which implicitly implies that she is his woman, to begin with) - an obvious reference to Ashe. This elicits an irritable "baka!" ("fool", if you don't know) from Balthier, as though the mere suggestion that he could love any woman other than Fran is preposterous.

I also detected some hostility towards Ashe, coming from Fran, in several scenes.


I imagine that this notion comes from the long and great friendship, as well as the complicity that's so obvious between Fran and Balflear (here I'm sure Scooby would say it's love...And you would argue that it's *not* love...?! What else could it be...?

Balthier and Fran are both completely estranged from their families. They are both outcasts. All they have is each other. They have become each other's family; each other's home; each other's everything. How can what is between them *not* be described as love...?

And let me ask you this: who does Balthier love *more* than Fran...? Is there anyone *else* whom he loves...? I don't think so.... I think that Fran is both the person whom he loves the *most* - and the *only* person whom he loves. To say that he loves Ashe would be preposterous! He is attracted to her, at most.
...there sure is tenderness there, but whether it is love or a beautiful friendship is never clear. ...It can't be both...?
I know there are tender gestures between them, but then it's nothing I haven't seen between true friends, either.Riiight.... Because what's a little breast-grabbing (http://www.ffxii.net/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=412) between friends!? :riiight:
Then there's what's developing between Ashe and Balflear, although I don't think it could possibly be love, at least not until the very end, but even that is very debatable. Balflear sure goes to great lengths to help her "cut her ties to the past", that prevent her from taking the right decision. You understand at one point that at first it was for personal reasons as well, but not only, and he feels very comfortable with her towards the last third of the story...I'd say that's an enormous exaggeration. Vaan shows far more concern for Ashe, and has a better understanding of what she's going through. Balthier is often extremely insensitive to her, e.g., when the group were addressing the Marquis, and he was prattling on about "fresh clothing", blithely oblivious to Ashe's distress - which Vaan (and Penelo) had picked up on. Vaan and Ashe have several soul-searching conversations - while she and Balthier only have one. Their talk on the bridge, under the stars (forgotten the name of the location), is particularly poignant - and an important scene for both characters. In fact, if I didn't find it so implausible (but no more implausible than I find Ashe/Balthier), I would probably ship Ashe/Vaan.
...to say she's her love interest in the game would be too much of a stretch though.Huh?! :confused: "She's her love interest"...?!


Ashe sure cares for him a lot in the end, and my interpretation is that she's at least a little infatuated with him.Ashe fancies him. So does Penelo, IMO. So do I. He's hot stuff. End of.

But, Fran loves him. She loves him enough to plead with him to leave her behind, and to save himself, when she is stricken by the Mist.... She loves him enough to sever ties with her family and friends, and to willingly give up some of her innate Viera abilities to be with him....
Whether he does reciprocate the feeling at this point is impossible to tell - there's no clear sign that could be interpreted in that way.I'm sure he finds her attractive; he's got eyes, after all. But there are two things that make Balthier who he is, two things that are of the utmost importance to him: Fran, and sky piracy - both of which he would have to forsake in order to be with Ashe. He has made it clear that he is not willing to forsake either thing - EVER! He is sky pirate to the bone, and Fran is his everything.

But, even if, hypothetically speaking, he were to make these enormous sacrifices, he still couldn't be with Ashe - because, relative to her, he is a commoner. Ashe must marry a member of the nobility. And Ashe would never abdicate her throne; she has made it clear that, the most important thing to her is to be a good queen to her people. So...Ashe/Balthier just ain't gonna happen.

By the end of the game, the party members have all gone their separate ways: Fran and Balthier are together, Vaan and Penelo are together, Basch is together with Larsa, and Ashe is all alone - removed from the rest - a lonely queen, looking out from her balcony....

People become attracted to other people; it happens all the time.... But, not all attractions develop into relationships.... Not every attraction has to go somewhere.... That's all there is between Ashe and Balthier: an unfulfilled attraction.
Unless you give a certain meaning to the whole ring subplot - I have a friend who's got a wonderful theory about it, LOL...Theory?

Balthier demanded that Ashe pawn her wedding ring, until she could find something else to offer him and Fran, as payment for their services. When Balthier posted the ring back to her, Ashe was delighted - because it was all she had left of her dead husband (whom she did love).

I don't see what else there is to it....
Also, something interesting is that when the whole party stands together in a given situation, Balflear either stands by Fran or by Ashe, and that's pretty much 50/50, at least in the last third.Uh, no. He almost always stands beside Fran. I noticed that, during group scenes, they always stand off to one side. Even when Balthier goes to check the body of a dead Judge, Fran accompanies him. They're, like, inseparable. :lovers:

[Dynast-Kid]

Hmmm...Interesting stuff.

Uhhh,scooby.Did you get your hands on a copy of FFXII?

[Aria28]

Is there really a Fran/Balthier/Ashe love triangle?Hmmm, well, one thing for sure is that there is no sense of competition at any point between Fran and Ashe, so it's not formally a love triangle. ...Except for when Fran asks Balthier what it's like to have a "second woman" (which implicitly implies that she is his woman, to begin with) - an obvious reference to Ashe. This elicits an irritable "baka!" ("fool", if you don't know) from Balthier, as though the mere suggestion that he could love any woman other than Fran is preposterous.

I also detected some hostility towards Ashe, coming from Fran, in several scenes.

Well, like I said, I think that it is more about what we want to read into their relationships than about what there is clearly there. It will be interesting to see what the translation will be like (i.e. if there is something clearer in that respect) and what people who haven't played it yet will make of it.....

Oh, and could you give me the sentence in japanese re: what Fran says? Because I don't ever remember her telling quite that (although I remember the one from Balflear - hard to forget *g*) - now of course, my japanese isn't perfect and I may have missunderstood it- would be easier to understand if I have it written :)

EDIT: Found that sentence again! You mean once they both are back in the Bahamut Fortress to repair it and after debris have fallen, right? She says "Nimaime wa taihen ne, Barafurea" - which you could translate into: "It's hard to be a playboy, isn't it, Balflear?" (she doesn't say "second woman", if that's the sentence you were refering to - I imagine it's the "ni" of "nimaime", which alone reads as "two", that could make think that. "Nimaime" is a term used for an actor who plays love interest in a story, i.e. a handsome man, if I'm not mistaking). To which he replies "Baka" - "Idiot". Btw, baka can be an endearing term to say "idiot" (Penelo uses it with Vaan a lot), especially the way he says it: he's not revolted by what she says, LOL To me, she sounds everything but jealous, actually, she's clearly teasing him, and he's not irritated, but amused. Just watch the scene again - maybe you hadn't seen it in a long time? I know I needed to refresh my memory as well, LOL

Now of course, you could certainly interpret things in your way, with her hitting at the fact that Ashe fancies/loves/is infatuated with/whatever him, to which he replies Baka to say "Idiot, it's only you I love". But you'll have to admit, it's only one possibility, i.e. he doesn't actually say that, it just may be implied. The first time I saw this scene, I was more under the impression he was saying "baka" because she's saying such a thing in the difficult position they are in, which is pretty funny. But then that's also only an interpretation

Hence my opinion that things are only hinted at in this game, and that room is left for interpretation. It's not about being right or wrong, but about perceiving things a certain way



I imagine that this notion comes from the long and great friendship, as well as the complicity that's so obvious between Fran and Balflear (here I'm sure Scooby would say it's love...And you would argue that it's *not* love...?! What else could it be...?

Balthier and Fran are both completely estranged from their families. They are both outcasts. All they have is each other. They have become each other's family; each other's home; each other's everything. How can what is between them *not* be described as love...?

Yes, it may not: all this doesn't always leads to something romantic between people in real life People can have great complicity, great friendship, know each other by heart, better than anybody else; it's most probably the case between Balflear and Fran; yet those people don't always fall in love. In fact, you may or not have experienced that but, sometimes, by becoming too good friends, nothing romantic can develop anymore. Now I'm not saying this is necessarily the case here, but again, not all this is the surest way to romance


And let me ask you this: who does Balthier love *more* than Fran...? Is there anyone *else* whom he loves...? I don't think so.... I think that Fran is both the person whom he loves the *most* - and the *only* person whom he loves. To say that he loves Ashe would be preposterous! He is attracted to her, at most.

LOL Read my previous post again, and you'll see that I clearly wrote that "Then there's what's developing between Ashe and Balflear, although I don't think it could possibly be love, at least not until the very end, but even that is very debatable. Balflear sure goes to great lengths to help her "cut her ties from the past" that prevent her from taking the right decision. You understand at one point that at first it was for personal reasons as well, but not only, and he feels very comfortable with her towards the last third of the story: to say she's her love interest in the game would be too much of a stretch though

I think I was being clear enough on the Balflear/Ashe issue, don't you think?:D Again, and I repeat, my interest in their pairing to me is mostly from a writing/creating point of view. I'm not threatening your point of view here in any way, so you can relax, LOL

Also.....friendship is another form of love. What we're debatting here is a love with a romantic undercurrent. I can definitely agree with you that he loves her dearly. But then I love my best friend dearly too, and there's little I wouldn't do for him; yet I am not in love with my him. That's the line.

My whole point is that I honestly cannot tell on which side of the line they are. I am not questionning how much they care for each other, but the nature of that feeling. You see them on one side, and I can definitely live with it, but personally, I don't, not from what I saw within the game

And yes, it can be both. But maybe it isn't :) And as for the pic you're referring to, that's more playful than anything else, really, LOL



Then there's what's developing between Ashe and Balflear, although I don't think it could possibly be love, at least not until the very end, but even that is very debatable. Balflear sure goes to great lengths to help her "cut her ties to the past", that prevent her from taking the right decision. You understand at one point that at first it was for personal reasons as well, but not only, and he feels very comfortable with her towards the last third of the story...I'd say that's an enormous exaggeration. Vaan shows far more concern for Ashe, and has a better understanding of what she's going through. Balthier is often extremely insensitive to her, e.g., when the group were addressing the Marquis, and he was prattling on about "fresh clothing", blithely oblivious to Ashe's distress - which Vaan (and Penelo) had picked up on. Vaan and Ashe have several soul-searching conversations - while she and Balthier only have one. Their talk on the bridge, under the stars (forgotten the name of the location), is particularly poignant - and an important scene for both characters. In fact, if I didn't find it so implausible (but no more implausible than I find Ashe/Balthier), I would probably ship Ashe/Vaan.

Ok, we obviously haven't played the same game..........Vaan and Balflear, as well as Basch, all play their role in Ashe's evolution throughout the game. I don't want to quote the whole game here, but maybe you should think again next time you play it the reasons that motivate what Balflear does, the decisions he takes. If you follow the story carefully, you understand in the end that nothing he does is gratuitous - ever, and that's precisely what makes him stand out as a character, not just in this game, but in the realm of video games in general.

If Balflear had been so insensitive and wouldn't have given her any second thought, how would he have guessed what her next move would be (since Vaan is surprised to see her there, himself hadn't known, and couldn't possibly have told Balflear)? And do you really believe he took her ring just as a payment? Do I have to spell out the reason why, which is the same reason that motivates most of what he does around Ashe? He's hyper aware of her. I'm not saying that in a romantic way, but he understands better than anybody else what really is going on, and where Ashe's feelings are leading her if she keeps being "tied to her past". He does understand that, she has to "see the light" before it's too late and all hell break loose, not just for herself, but for everyone involved. Because of the whole Nethecite affair, he's actually also motivated by his own past experience - hence the urgency. I don't think it's a "knight in shining armor" thing at all, but he understands where are the risks for her, for him, and for everyone involved if she cannot overcome her desires for power and vengeance, and he tries to help her with that

I also firmly believe that they all are true friends when comes the last part of the story, and that's also true for Ashe and Balflear, like it is with the rest of them. You don't win the kind of battles they face in the end if you can't trust the others implicitely



...to say she's her love interest in the game would be too much of a stretch though.Huh?! :confused: "She's her love interest"...?!

*sigh* read me again, you'll see that I'm saying that you definitely cannot say that she is his love interest during the game. To spell things more clearly, I don't think he romantically loves her. I do think there's material, and I'm eager to use it, to develop my own storylines in that sense, but no, I don't think they are in love in the game either, although probably one of the rare things I am pretty sure of is that Ashe has feelings for him of a romantic to a certain degree, but I wouldn't call that "love" at this point. Like you said he is hot stuff, but she also recognizes what he's done for her once she's literally gotten rid of the ghosts of her past - I refer here to the scene in the Bahamut Fortress where she almost quotes him from their conversation of Phon Coast to reply to him.

I'm not covering the rest as I would only repeat myself ad nauseam. You have chosen to interpret things a certain way, which is cool, it's great, and it is possible. I have never, ever said the contrary. And you are right, in a way. My point is precisely that the storyline allows you to interpret things. But we don't have another Tidus-Yuna or Squall-Rinoa, where things are spelled out for you. Also, what happens to them all after the closing scene of the game is not known - it's up to us to decide, if we choose to write, or to the game's writers, if they decide to do a sequel.

I hope now what I tried to express is more understandable :)

[Guardians]

the only and the only that contain love relationships is Fran/Balfier, in the end of the game, the FMV show that the relationship between they 2 not only parnet.

about Ashe/Fran/Balfier, tjere not such thing about triangle love.... lol


Ashe just want to recover her kingdoms and fight for freedom

if talk about relationship, Vaan and Panelo 's relationships is closer then other

[nobuteru]

Is there really a Fran/Balthier/Ashe love triangle?Hmmm, well, one thing for sure is that there is no sense of competition at any point between Fran and Ashe, so it's not formally a love triangle....Except for when Fran asks Balthier what it's like to have a "second woman" (which implicitly implies that she is his woman, to begin with) - an obvious reference to Ashe. This elicits an irritable "baka!" ("fool", if you don't know) from Balthier, as though the mere suggestion that he could love any woman other than Fran is preposterous.

I also detected some hostility towards Ashe, coming from Fran, in several scenes.


I imagine that this notion comes from the long and great friendship, as well as the complicity that's so obvious between Fran and Balflear (here I'm sure Scooby would say it's love...And you would argue that it's *not* love...?! What else could it be...?

Balthier and Fran are both completely estranged from their families. They are both outcasts. All they have is each other. They have become each other's family; each other's home; each other's everything. How can what is between them *not* be described as love...?

And let me ask you this: who does Balthier love *more* than Fran...? Is there anyone *else* whom he loves...? I don't think so.... I think that Fran is both the person whom he loves the *most* - and the *only* person whom he loves. To say that he loves Ashe would be preposterous! He is attracted to her, at most.
...there sure is tenderness there, but whether it is love or a beautiful friendship is never clear. ...It can't be both...?
I know there are tender gestures between them, but then it's nothing I haven't seen between true friends, either.Riiight.... Because what's a little breast-grabbing (http://www.ffxii.net/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=412) between friends!? :riiight:
Then there's what's developing between Ashe and Balflear, although I don't think it could possibly be love, at least not until the very end, but even that is very debatable. Balflear sure goes to great lengths to help her "cut her ties to the past", that prevent her from taking the right decision. You understand at one point that at first it was for personal reasons as well, but not only, and he feels very comfortable with her towards the last third of the story...I'd say that's an enormous exaggeration. Vaan shows far more concern for Ashe, and has a better understanding of what she's going through. Balthier is often extremely insensitive to her, e.g., when the group were addressing the Marquis, and he was prattling on about "fresh clothing", blithely oblivious to Ashe's distress - which Vaan (and Penelo) had picked up on. Vaan and Ashe have several soul-searching conversations - while she and Balthier only have one. Their talk on the bridge, under the stars (forgotten the name of the location), is particularly poignant - and an important scene for both characters. In fact, if I didn't find it so implausible (but no more implausible than I find Ashe/Balthier), I would probably ship Ashe/Vaan.
...to say she's her love interest in the game would be too much of a stretch though.Huh?! :confused: "She's her love interest"...?!


Ashe sure cares for him a lot in the end, and my interpretation is that she's at least a little infatuated with him.Ashe fancies him. So does Penelo, IMO. So do I. He's hot stuff. End of.

But, Fran loves him. She loves him enough to plead with him to leave her behind, and to save himself, when she is stricken by the Mist.... She loves him enough to sever ties with her family and friends, and to willingly give up some of her innate Viera abilities to be with him....
Whether he does reciprocate the feeling at this point is impossible to tell - there's no clear sign that could be interpreted in that way.I'm sure he finds her attractive; he's got eyes, after all. But there are two things that make Balthier who he is, two things that are of the utmost importance to him: Fran, and sky piracy - both of which he would have to forsake in order to be with Ashe. He has made it clear that he is not willing to forsake either thing - EVER! He is sky pirate to the bone, and Fran is his everything.

But, even if, hypothetically speaking, he were to make these enormous sacrifices, he still couldn't be with Ashe - because, relative to her, he is a commoner. Ashe must marry a member of the nobility. And Ashe would never abdicate her throne; she has made it clear that, the most important thing to her is to be a good queen to her people. So...Ashe/Balthier just ain't gonna happen.

By the end of the game, the party members have all gone their separate ways: Fran and Balthier are together, Vaan and Penelo are together, Basch is together with Larsa, and Ashe is all alone - removed from the rest - a lonely queen, looking out from her balcony....

People become attracted to other people; it happens all the time.... But, not all attractions develop into relationships.... Not every attraction has to go somewhere.... That's all there is between Ashe and Balthier: an unfulfilled attraction.
Unless you give a certain meaning to the whole ring subplot - I have a friend who's got a wonderful theory about it, LOL...Theory?

Balthier demanded that Ashe pawn her wedding ring, until she could find something else to offer him and Fran, as payment for their services. When Balthier posted the ring back to her, Ashe was delighted - because it was all she had left of her dead husband (whom she did love).

I don't see what else there is to it....
Also, something interesting is that when the whole party stands together in a given situation, Balflear either stands by Fran or by Ashe, and that's pretty much 50/50, at least in the last third.Uh, no. He almost always stands beside Fran. I noticed that, during group scenes, they always stand off to one side. Even when Balthier goes to check the body of a dead Judge, Fran accompanies him. They're, like, inseparable. :lovers:



it's been awhile since i've checked up on this thread...but as usual scooby seems to be doing a marvelous job of manning things...

[Guardians]

Are they romantically involved? I've read in several places that they are "partners", but I was wondering what exactly the nature of their partnership is. I do hope they're together; they look good together.

after play the game, from the FMV in the end that Fran protect Balflier from the piller( i think that is piller) when Balflier repair the Bahamut fortress(after that still got some dialog), we can know that their relationship not only is partners....

[Dell]

Vaan/Basch/Rex. Gay Triangle. Larsa and that Banga girl in Nalbina seems to have a relationship. All of this is fact, Sakaguchi claimed it.

Oh no, this can't be true!

[Aria28]

Vaan/Basch/Rex. Gay Triangle. Larsa and that Banga girl in Nalbina seems to have a relationship. All of this is fact, Sakaguchi claimed it.

Oh no, this can't be true!

*rolling on the floor laughing*

Hey, that's not nice to joke about it. We had a seriously serious and importantly important debate here :p

vivi_ultima, Larsa and that Bangaa girl? I don't think I'll ever recover from the shock :D

[Chocobo_Knight]

Haahaahaa, all the spoilers' been removed. Whaddya know...

Hmmm regarding the A-B-F love triangle, do you actually think Ashe will be attracted to Balthier? I dunno, Balthier looks a lil metrosexual-like and Ashe looks the type who prefers a more manly character.

I think a Ashe-Vaan-Penelo triangle is more probable.

Oooo I wonder what love triangles lead to in the story.

p.s. I didn't get to read the spoilers so hope you don't mind if I seem to be saying that contradicts the fact.

[Aria28]

Haahaahaa, all the spoilers' been removed. Whaddya know...

Hmmm regarding the A-B-F love triangle, do you actually think Ashe will be attracted to Balthier? I dunno, Balthier looks a lil metrosexual-like and Ashe looks the type who prefers a more manly character.

I think a Ashe-Vaan-Penelo triangle is more probable.

Oooo I wonder what love triangles lead to in the story.

p.s. I didn't get to read the spoilers so hope you don't mind if I seem to be saying that contradicts the fact.

Right.....Balflear looks a little metrosexual, so you'd see Ashe more in a triangle with Vaan......who looks oh so much more manly :D :riiight:

[marysonnie]

Is it just me, or do Balflear and Fran remind you of Urahara Kisuke and Shihouin Yoruichi of Bleach? The way that they've been established before you're introduced to the story, the strong friendship, even the look and behavior of them.

[scooby]

Hello! :) Following a brief hiatus from my posting activities on the EoFF forums, I have returned!!! Woot!

Okay, before I begin, a couple of disclaimers:


1. I don't speak/read Japanese. My knowledge of the dialogue in FFXII comes from (reliable and respectable) fan translations. The translations I have consulted can be found here (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/game/459841.html) - the FXII section of GameFAQs. So, in this respect, Aria28 has the upper hand in our debates.


2. I HAVEN'T PLAYED FFXII. However, I have viewed all of the cutscenes in the game. Details here (http://www.ffxii.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=6249&st=140&p=161711&#entry161711).



Is there really a Fran/Balthier/Ashe love triangle?Hmmm, well, one thing for sure is that there is no sense of competition at any point between Fran and Ashe, so it's not formally a love triangle.
...Except for when Fran asks Balthier what it's like to have a "second woman" (which implicitly implies that she is his woman, to begin with) - an obvious reference to Ashe. This elicits an irritable "baka!" ("fool", if you don't know) from Balthier, as though the mere suggestion that he could love any woman other than Fran is preposterous.

I also detected some hostility towards Ashe, coming from Fran, in several scenes.

Well, like I said, I think that it is more about what we want to read into their relationships than about what there is clearly there. It will be interesting to see what the translation will be like (i.e. if there is something clearer in that respect) and what people who haven't played it yet will make of it.....

Oh, and could you give me the sentence in Japanese re: what Fran says? Because I don't ever remember her telling quite that (although I remember the one from Balflear - hard to forget *g*) - now of course, my Japanese isn't perfect and I may have misunderstood it - would be easier to understand if I have it written. :)

EDIT: Found that sentence again! You mean once they both are back in the Bahamut Fortress to repair it and after debris have fallen, right? She says "Nimaime wa taihen ne, Barafurea" - which you could translate into: "It's hard to be a playboy, isn't it, Balflear?" (she doesn't say "second woman", if that's the sentence you were referring to - I imagine it's the "ni" of "nimaime", which alone reads as "two", that could make think that. "Nimaime" is a term used for an actor who plays love interest in a story, i.e. a handsome man, if I'm not mistaking). To which he replies "Baka" - "Idiot". Btw, baka can be an endearing term to say "idiot" (Penelo uses it with Vaan a lot), especially the way he says it: he's not revolted by what she says, LOL To me, she sounds everything but jealous, actually, she's clearly teasing him, and he's not irritated, but amused. Just watch the scene again - maybe you hadn't seen it in a long time? I know I needed to refresh my memory as well, LOL

Now of course, you could certainly interpret things in your way, with her hitting at the fact that Ashe fancies/loves/is infatuated with/whatever him, to which he replies Baka to say "Idiot, it's only you I love". But you'll have to admit, it's only one possibility, i.e. he doesn't actually say that, it just may be implied. The first time I saw this scene, I was more under the impression he was saying "baka" because she's saying such a thing in the difficult position they are in, which is pretty funny. But then that's also only an interpretation.

Hence my opinion that things are only hinted at in this game, and that room is left for interpretation. It's not about being right or wrong, but about perceiving things a certain way.
See Disclaimer #1. I'm not going to dispute what you have said, and am not qualified to argue this further. The "second woman" line came from one of the aforementioned fan transcripts. Either you or the translator may be right.... *shrugs* How would I know? We'll just have to wait and see what the official English translation of Fran's line will be.... Either way, I feel sure that she was referring to Ashe...and in, what I perceived as, a jealous (though well-disguised) tone of voice....


...but he [Balthier] understands better than anybody else what really is going on, and where Ashe's feelings are leading her if she keeps being "tied to her past". He does understand that, she has to "see the light" before it's too late and all hell breaks loose, not just for herself, but for everyone involved....I think that Vaan displays an equally good, if not better, understanding of what Ashe is going through. He always notices, and points out to the others, when Ashe is seeing "him" (Rasler). Vaan, of course, also suffered a bereavement in the recent past; his grief enables him to empathize with Ashe. I do not think that Balthier's understanding of Ashe is any greater than Vaan's is. But, whatever....


...to say she's her love interest in the game would be too much of a stretch though.
Huh?! :confused: "She's her love interest"...?!

*sigh* Read me again, you'll see that I'm saying that you definitely cannot say that she is his love interest during the game. My confusion was owing to your use of the word "her", where, I now realize, you meant to write "his".

...English isn't your native language, is it?

Perhaps the sequel to FFXII - Revenant Wings - which stars both Balthier and Fran, will give us further insight into their relationship.... *prays*

[Aria28]

Welcome back Scooby!:kiss:

Hey, Revenant Wings may just. At any rate, it will be interesting to see where the authors of the game want to take all the characters, and especially those two;)

And no, English isn't my native language, but I usually don't leave such stupid mistakes - sorry about that, urgh :rolleyes2 . I can only say to my defense that I was writing those at around 2 AM, and that at that hour, my attention span is greatly shortened.

Oh, and I just meant also to say - there are hints in favor of Balflear and Fran, definitely. It's just that I don't think you can tell for sure, but that's just an opinion and yours is perfectly valid as well. It's more that I didn't agree with some of the arguments you pointed out, but I don't disagree with your opinion necessarily (whew, I hope I said that one right! LOL :D )

For the Japanese bit - I've asked a japanese friend to confirm the translation I've posted (Japanese isn't my native language either, and, even if I understand my way around, I certainly had to look up in a dictionary for that one!), and the fan transcripts I've checked mentioned something similar, but like you said, we'll know more when we get the English version (barely two more weeks to wait, yeah!), and they may actually decide to make relations clearer between characters as well by using different words and/or tone of voice

I can't wait for us to get the English version so that we can talk about this further - but whatever the outcome, I must warn you I may remain a Balflear/Ashe shipper in my fanfics please don't hit me :p

[yojimbosoul]

Sadly, I don't see why some people dislike Fran... Today there are too many people uptight and walk around like they know everything and everything should be perfect...

My friend is Racist..... (even in games)................( which is sad )

sup
don't double post
use the edit button
live long and prosper

kikimm

[Dell]

Sadly, I don't see why some people dislike Fran... Today there are too many people uptight and walk around like they know everything and everything should be perfect...

My friend is Racist..... (even in games)................( which is sad )

sup
don't double post
use the edit button
live long and prosper

kikimm

No one dislike Fran.

[Dynast-Kid]

Sadly, I don't see why some people dislike Fran... Today there are too many people uptight and walk around like they know everything and everything should be perfect...

My friend is Racist..... (even in games)................( which is sad )

sup
don't double post
use the edit button
live long and prosper

kikimm

Well,your "friend" is the only person i've ever seen who hates Fran (or any other character) because of their skin.

Besides,Fran is considered very light-skinned by Viera standards.

[yojimbosoul]

I know qute alot of people that hate Fran

[marysonnie]

Huh. I knew a couple people weren't too keen on Fran, but hate is a bit strong. I heard the designer actually wanted her cuteness emphasized. I think she's fabulous; from the very beginning, her and Balflear's designs impressed me the most.

[Dell]

I know qute alot of people that hate Fran

Maybe because of Fran is the only non-hume in the main party (What about Larsa's lover, you know....that bangaa girl?).

Fran is perfect, 'wonderfuller' than any of the main character (Yes, even Ashe). It's just that I never use her in battle (You must use her at the beginning). My Fran, Balthier and Penelo level is 13!!!! While the others have gone to 50.

Fran's story was the most touching. :kaocry2:

[yojimbosoul]

I haven't played the game, so I wouldn't know

[scooby]

...Moving on from "hating Fran"...which is the kind of topic that could potentially get the thread closed....

If you want to continue this discussion of Fran's supposed lack of popularity, and its possible causes - kindly take it elsewhere, guys. Thanks. :) This is a thread for discussion of Fran and Balthier's relationship. Let's try and stay on-topic.

Okaaay.... I've fixed all of the dead links in the thread (and replaced a few with some surprises). Additionally, "the scene" is now available on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP6osZD6bQM). Video details: MAJOR SPOILERS!, vid is 09:52 mins long (includes battle with Cid), (poorly) subtitled in English, "the scene" begins at 07:13 mins into the video. I suggest you all catch it now, because videos on YouTube are always liable to being taken down (as regular viewers of this thread should know by now...).

Balthier has such an "in love" look, in this scene; it's plain to see. The way he closes his eyes.... <3 *sigh* :lovers:

And no, English isn't my native language, but I usually don't leave such stupid mistakes - sorry about that, urgh :rolleyes2 . I can only say to my defense that I was writing those at around 2 AM, and that at that hour, my attention span is greatly shortened.Btw, I didn't mean for my question, about English not being your native language, to sound insulting or snotty (and now fear that it did).... Your English is superb. :up: In fact, had I not already know that you're from Switzerland (as I read in your profile), I would have thought you a native English speaker.

So, you're trilingual, huh? Impressive. Multilingualism is a great asset.


...but whatever the outcome, I must warn you I may remain a Balflear/Ashe shipper in my fanfics please don't hit me :pHey - it's cool. You're at perfect liberty to ship whomever you like. :cool:

[marysonnie]

I wish there were some more English scenes on youtube so I could get a better feel for Fran's voice...the trailer doesn't do it a lot of justice. I guess I just have to wait a few months for someone to post all the English Fran/Balflear scenes ^^

[scooby]

I wish there were some more English scenes on youtube so I could get a better feel for Fran's voice...the trailer doesn't do it a lot of justice. I guess I just have to wait a few months for someone to post all the English Fran/Balflear scenes ^^A YouTube user has been uploading tons of cutscenes from the English game (many of which feature Fran), onto this page (http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=AmazingKenchan). He updates it regularly - so keep checking back.



Edited to add: :( So...the videos have been removed from YouTube. I hope that some of you managed to catch a few, before they were taken down.

But - on the plus side: only 9 more days' wait, for the Americans!!! Then, hopefully, a flood of new Fran/Balthier shippers will pour in here and revitalise the thread!

[marysonnie]

Thank you, scooby ^^ Good on you!

[yojimbosoul]

so.........

DO NOT SPAM. ~ Leeza

[Dynast-Kid]

Well, I got my copy of the game yesterday!

So now i'll be able to contribute to the discussion instead of agreeing with Aria and scooby!

On a side note, Fran's voice is AMAZING! Whoever voiced her should win like, an Oscar or something. Balthier's voice is pretty good too, he's got a British accent.

I haven't really sensed any of the romance aspects of the game yet (i'm only about six hours in) but i'm sure i'll see some later.

[marysonnie]

From what I could hear, Fran's got an adorable voice. She and Balthier have very compatible voices.

[Dynast-Kid]

From what I could hear, Fran's got an adorable voice.

Yes, she does.

Anyways, I did kinda sense a little 'love' in the Nalbina Dungeons after you defeat Daguza and his Seeq thugs. Well not really love. Anyways, when Vaan questions Fran's power to sense Mist, Balthier is very quick to put him in his place. I thought that display kinda signalled a closer relationship.

[Aria28]

From what I could hear, Fran's got an adorable voice.

Yes, she does.

ANyways, I did kinda sense a little 'love' in the Nalbina Dungeons after you defeat Daguza and his Seeq thugs. Well not really love. Anyways, when Vaan questions Fran's power to sense Mist, Balthier is very quick to put him in his place. I thought that display kinda signalled a closer relationship.

Whoohoo! Congrats on getting the game al-bhed_kid, looking forward to read your comments here ;)
If you liked that scene, wait until you get to Eruyt village(about mid-game). There's a scene....nah, I won't spoil it for you, but it's maybe the funniest one in the whole game (and I'm sure one that scooby must have watched over and over....well, me too to be honest :p )

[Dell]

^That how old are you scene? :p That scene is funny. However, the scene before you fight Gilgamesh is still the funniest....for me

*Try to beat Aria* Ashe is married and she actually love her husband so much. And she refused to take Balthier as her new husband.

The scene in Pharos at Ridorana - Third Ascent ~Mete of Dynasty~, the one when they're trying to destroy the Nethicite. kinda show the relationship between Balthier and Fran.

[scooby]

Just gonna comment quickly on the last few posts in the thread:


1. Balthier doesn't have a "British accent"; there's no such thing. The UK (United Kingdom) comprises four countries: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. In each of these countries, there exists a multitude of different regional accents. E.g., in England, there is (to name a few) Scouse (from Liverpool), Geordie (Newcastle), Cockney (East London), Janner (Plymouth - where I'm from - but, thankfully, I DON'T have the accent!!!), etc. Balthier sounds like he comes from somewhere in the South East of England; one of the Home Counties. It drives me mad when I hear/see ignorant people saying things like "...from Britain and Scotland..." Er...hello!!! Scotland is a part of Britain!!!


2. Don't like Balthier's plummy, CAMP!, posh-boy accent.... More on that, later....


3. Getting tired of all the crude jokes about Fran, that I've been seeing on other message boards. Don't like her accent, either.

I found a MUCH bigger version of the gorgeous Yoshida drawing of Fran and Balthier; think it's a scan from the art book. I've attached it to this post.

[Dynast-Kid]

Just gonna comment quickly on the last few posts in the thread:


1. Balthier doesn't have a "British accent"; there's no such thing. The UK (United Kingdom) comprises four countries: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. In each of these countries, there exists a multitude of different regional accents. E.g., in England, there is (to name a few) Scouse (from Liverpool), Geordie (Newcastle), Cockney (East London), Janner (Plymouth - where I'm from - but, thankfully, I DON'T have the accent!!!), etc. Balthier sounds like he comes from somewhere in the South East of England; one of the Home Counties. It drives me mad when I hear/see ignorant people saying things like "...from Britain and Scotland..." Er...hello!!! Scotland is a part of Britain!!!


Sorry, I didn't intend to offend or anything.




2. Don't like Balthier's plummy, CAMP!, posh-boy accent.... More on that, later....

I'm actually quite fond of his accent...




3. Getting tired of all the crude jokes about Fran, that I've been seeing on other message boards. Don't like her accent, either.

What are these mysterious message boards? Fran is probably my favorite Final Fantasy character to date!

And I am in love with her voice.


I found a MUCH bigger version of the gorgeous Yoshida drawing of Fran and Balthier; think it's a scan from the art book. I've attached it to this post.

Yeah, that's in the art book. I love it as well. And thanks Aria!

Anyways...
On the Dreadnought Leviathan I also sensed a (more crude) Fran/Balthier vibe.

When Fran goes into her Mist-induced Super Ultra Crazy Hyper Homocidal Mode, Balthier and Penelo have a quick exchange something like this:

Penelo: What's wrong with her?

Balthier: Well, I always knew Fran wasn't very fond to being tied up.

I know that there is a myriad of things that comment could be alluding to, but I took that as a sort of double entendre. Just think about it...; )
I don't know if i'm just reading to deep into that statement (or if I was just really dirty-minded that particular day) but that's what I took from it.

Yeah, nothing major or definite.

[scooby]

Just gonna comment quickly on the last few posts in the thread:


1. Balthier doesn't have a "British accent"; there's no such thing. The UK (United Kingdom) comprises four countries: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. In each of these countries, there exists a multitude of different regional accents. E.g., in England, there is (to name a few) Scouse (from Liverpool), Geordie (Newcastle), Cockney (East London), Janner (Plymouth - where I'm from - but, thankfully, I DON'T have the accent!!!), etc. Balthier sounds like he comes from somewhere in the South East of England; one of the Home Counties. It drives me mad when I hear/see ignorant people saying things like "...from Britain and Scotland..." Er...hello!!! Scotland is a part of Britain!!!


Sorry, I didn't intend to offend or anything.

...And I didn't mean to sound so rude. I apologize. It just gets to one...when one constantly hears the misnomer: "British accent".



2. Don't like Balthier's plummy, CAMP!, posh-boy accent.... More on that, later....

I'm actually quite fond of his accent...It's not that I think his voice is bad, per se.... Indeed, I think that Gideon Emery put in a decent performance.... It's just that, it rather pales in comparison with the Japanese voice - courtesy of one of my favourite seiyuus: Hiroaki Hirata. Balthier's Japanese voice is sooooo sexy :love:, and his English voice...well...isn't. :-\ To me, camp = NOT sexy. I find it to be a major disappointment. Laughably camp.




3. Getting tired of all the crude jokes about Fran, that I've been seeing on other message boards. Don't like her accent, either.

What are these mysterious message boards? Fran is probably my favorite Final Fantasy character to date!

And I am in love with her voice.Again, I was speaking comparatively. If I hadn't already been so in love with Fran's Japanese voice, perhaps I would've found her English voice more tolerable. As it is, it grates on me.

I was mostly referring to the (extremely active) FFXII message board on GameFAQs. "You know what rabbits like doing..." etc. :mad:

Anyways...
On the Dreadnought Leviathan I also sensed a (more crude) Fran/Balthier vibe.

When Fran goes into her Mist-induced Super Ultra Crazy Hyper Homicidal Mode, Balthier and Penelo have a quick exchange something like this:

Penelo: What's wrong with her?

Balthier: Well, I always knew Fran wasn't very fond to being tied up.

I know that there is a myriad of things that comment could be alluding to, but I took that as a sort of double entendre. Just think about it...; )
I don't know if I’m just reading to deep into that statement (or if I was just really dirty-minded that particular day) but that's what I took from it.

Yeah, nothing major or definite.It could be interpreted that way...or, he could've just meant that Fran likes freedom.... Balthier's pretty cheeky - so, like you said, probably a deliberate double entendre.

[Zeromus_X]

I'd like it better if they just stayed partners. I'm happy that this game is absent of any romantic subplots.

But that Yoshida drawing is so adorable.

[Tainted Angel]

This reminded me about a picture i found a while ago. I'm not sure if its official art or not but i liked it. I've been wondering about that myself but i think that there is romance between them.

Page three of the artbook. It's a color sketch.


She's a Viera!!! Like, 95% human, or something. It's no worse than Garnet and Zidane (that monkey-boy). He had a tail! Or how about Quina and Vivi getting married?! Way, way weirder!

There is one known case of Minbari and Human having a childe,. and for all we know Vorlon genetics was involved. (The whole 'losing souls to the humans' thing. The minbari genome had traces of human in part of it.)

Please don't double post; use the Edit button to add information to a recently made post. Thanks! :) :cat: ~ Zeromus

[Zeromus_X]

Quina and Vivi are not canonically a couple. >_> Qus don't even have genders anyway.

[Tainted Angel]

another reason i dont think fran and balthier will be together because vieras live for around 300 years unless im mistaken.
She could be 190-220 and we'd never know. It's the nature of the fantasy/scifi species that live long. (That or pulling a Amanda style 'she got longevity enhancements' type of thing in a ultamania book. Hehe...)

Either is a possibility.

[Aria28]

I'm actually quite fond of his accent...It's not that I think his voice is bad, per se.... Indeed, I think that Gideon Emery put in a decent performance.... It's just that, it rather pales in comparison with the Japanese voice - courtesy of one of my favourite seiyuus: Hiroaki Hirata. Balthier's Japanese voice is sooooo sexy :love:, and his English voice...well...isn't. :-\ To me, camp = NOT sexy. I find it to be a major disappointment. Laughably camp.

Scooby, I am SO glad to read that, because I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who thinks that, while the English VA does a good job, it's nothing compared to his japanese one. There's just a whole level of nuances he brings to the character that aren't there in English (it must also be said that the the translation misses a few things, at least during the first hours after he first appears - I haven't been too far with the English version though, so I don't know how the text turns out beyond Lhusu Mines). But yeah, he doesn't sound nowhere near as sexy as in japanese, but then, it would have been hard to do :D

Besides, Hiroaki Hirata also provides the japanese voice for KH2' Captain Jack Sparrow. I don't think it can get cooler than that :p


Again, I was speaking comparatively. If I hadn't already been so in love with Fran's Japanese voice, perhaps I would've found her English voice more tolerable. As it is, it grates on me.

I was mostly referring to the (extremely active) FFXII message board on GameFAQs. "You know what rabbits like doing..." etc. :mad:

Actually, Fran's voice is the only true departure from the japanese ones, and the only true disappointment to me. I loved her deep, slightly smocky voice that gave her something of an ethereal aura at times, an ocean of calm in the middle of all the agitation (like when they decide to head for Raithwall's tomb: she's just mezmerizing then). It made her stand out. Now she sounds like a 16 y.o., which is cute, but doesn't fit the character and her history, imo.



It could be interpreted that way...or, he could've just meant that Fran likes freedom.... Balthier's pretty cheeky - so, like you said, probably a deliberate double entendre.

I agree. I think he would respect her too much to say something like that seriously, he's rather playful there (which he tends to do a lot at times of crisis :rolleyes2 )

[Tainted Angel]

I'm actually quite fond of his accent...It's not that I think his voice is bad, per se.... Indeed, I think that Gideon Emery put in a decent performance.... It's just that, it rather pales in comparison with the Japanese voice - courtesy of one of my favourite seiyuus: Hiroaki Hirata. Balthier's Japanese voice is sooooo sexy :love:, and his English voice...well...isn't. :-\ To me, camp = NOT sexy. I find it to be a major disappointment. Laughably camp.

Scooby, I am SO glad to read that, because I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who thinks that, while the English VA does a good job, it's nothing compared to his japanese one. There's just a whole level of nuances he brings to the character that aren't there in English (it must also be said that the the translation misses a few things, at least during the first hours after he first appears - I haven't been too far with the English version though, so I don't know how the text turns out beyond Lhusu Mines). But yeah, he doesn't sound nowhere near as sexy as in japanese, but then, it would have been hard to do :D

Besides, Hiroaki Hirata also provides the japanese voice for KH2' Captain Jack Sparrow. I don't think it can get cooler than that :p )

Fucking wow... a sky pirate being voices by the japanese voice for Sparrow. I don't think sparrow is the right image to have in yoru head when hearing Balthier. I liked the british VA.. (I do HOPE they keep the english VA for the brit PAL version...)

However he is no Bond. Too standoffish. Bu tthen, he's not impressing anybody. (Hell.. he's already got a Vare at his side.. what's next? Nothing compatible with humes I'm sure.)

I do love his VA. It's just so neat.... but I also think he's a bit of a willow flower, a bit standoffish whenas Connery's Bond would do it differently. (not thathe's wrong but... he's not Bond.)

[Miriel]

Balthier reminds me of a squash between Jack Sparrow and V. This is a good thing.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Actually, Fran's voice is the only true departure from the japanese ones, and the only true disappointment to me. I loved her deep, slightly smocky voice that gave her something of an ethereal aura at times, an ocean of calm in the middle of all the agitation (like when they decide to head for Raithwall's tomb: she's just mezmerizing then). It made her stand out. Now she sounds like a 16 y.o., which is cute, but doesn't fit the character and her history, imo.On the contrary, there are few things more wonderful to behold than a six-foot-tall no-nonsense bunny girl who sounds exactly like Björk.

[Aria28]

Actually, Fran's voice is the only true departure from the japanese ones, and the only true disappointment to me. I loved her deep, slightly smocky voice that gave her something of an ethereal aura at times, an ocean of calm in the middle of all the agitation (like when they decide to head for Raithwall's tomb: she's just mezmerizing then). It made her stand out. Now she sounds like a 16 y.o., which is cute, but doesn't fit the character and her history, imo.On the contrary, there are few things more wonderful to behold than a six-foot-tall no-nonsense bunny girl who sounds exactly like Björk.

:lol: :D

ROFLMAO I'm laughing so hard it hurts

[scooby]

I'm sorry...but if none of you have played (or, at the very least, seen extensive sections of) the Japanese version of FFXII, I don't think you're in a position to compare Balthier's voice actors.

His Japanese VA is just far better: less affected, less foreigners'-stereotypical-idea-of-what-an-English "cool guy"-sounds-like, more natural, more nuanced, and, most importantly, MUCH sexier.

It's sad, because, by and large, I think they've done a decent job on the English localization. The lip sync is, of course, much worse; the general sound, as many others have pointed out, has a peculiarly tinny quality - as though it was recorded inside a phone box; Basch, Vaan, Penelo and Ashe have VAs that are about as good as their Japanese counterparts (though the latter three are considerably less emotional); so does Larsa; Vayne is poor - his speech to the people of Rabanastre was painfully lacking in charisma; rest of the cast is patchy; dialogue is overwritten - at times amusing, at others embarrassingly pretentious - and misses some of the subtleties present in the Japanese game, e.g. Vaan and Ashe's "don't call me you" conflict.

All in all, it's okay. The only two real sore spots for me are Fran and Balthier's voices. Fran sounds less like a centuries-old spirit-of-the-woods, and more like a poor imitation of Bjork - her every pause calculated. Balthier sounds like an errant public school boy; like Prince Charles, trying to be hip. Every time he speaks I want to knock his pompous, toffee-nosed lights out...instead of swooning, as I do when I hear his Japanese voice.

...Those are just my opinions. *shrugs*

[marysonnie]

I don't suppose we'd be fortunate enough to have a Japanese voice option? </sarcasm>

I wish that were the case, as I like giving my anime dubs a listen, then switching to Japanese voices. I love having a "true" comparison to listen to. I still think the English VAs have compatible voices, but that doesn't make them true to the characters themselves. I did listen to the English clip of Vayne's speech (pre-removal) and was really unimpressed by it.


I still have some in-game Japanese clips of the game, and I plan on holding onto them :)

[Miriel]

I'm sorry...but if none of you have played (or, at the very least, seen extensive sections of) the Japanese version of FFXII, I don't think you're in a position to compare Balthier's voice actors.

His Japanese VA is just far better: less affected, less foreigners'-stereotypical-idea-of-what-an-English "cool guy"-sounds-like, more natural, more nuanced, and, most importantly, MUCH sexier.

It's sad, because, by and large, I think they've done a decent job on the English localization. The lip sync is, of course, much worse; the general sound, as many others have pointed out, has a peculiarly tinny quality - as though it was recorded inside a phone box; Basch, Vaan, Penelo and Ashe have VAs that are about as good as their Japanese counterparts (though the latter three are considerably less emotional); so does Larsa; Vayne is poor - his speech to the people of Rabanastre was painfully lacking in charisma; rest of the cast is patchy; dialogue is overwritten - at times amusing, at others embarrassingly pretentious - and misses some of the subtleties present in the Japanese game, e.g. Vaan and Ashe's "don't call me you" conflict.

All in all, it's okay. The only two real sore spots for me are Fran and Balthier's voices. Fran sounds less like a centuries-old spirit-of-the-woods, and more like a poor imitation of Bjork - her every pause calculated. Balthier sounds like an errant public school boy; like Prince Charles, trying to be hip. Every time he speaks I want to knock his pompous, toffee-nosed lights out...instead of swooning, as I do when I hear his Japanese voice.

...Those are just my opinions. *shrugs*

I guess I'm just gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you completely.

I've heard Balthier's Japanese voice acting via clips on YouTube. I found his voice to be deeper and more monotone. Lacking the sly charm and humor that's in the NA version of the game. Balthier's voice shouldn't be so grave and deep as it is in the JP version. The more casual, "hip" accent as you call it, fits his personality much better in my opinion.

As for Fran, a poor imitation of björk? What are you talking about? She sounds EXACTLY like björk and it's so awesome. The accent is not one you hear everyday and it's different but it works. I find myself wishing that Fran would speak more because I love hearing her voice.

[XxSephirothxX]

I agree. When I first heard Fran's voice, I was a bit put off. But after a few minutes I was over the surprise, and now I really dig it. Balthier's great, too. He sounds EXACTLY like a European Han Solo. :p I want more dialogue from both of them.

[Aria28]

I'm sorry...but if none of you have played (or, at the very least, seen extensive sections of) the Japanese version of FFXII, I don't think you're in a position to compare Balthier's voice actors.

His Japanese VA is just far better: less affected, less foreigners'-stereotypical-idea-of-what-an-English "cool guy"-sounds-like, more natural, more nuanced, and, most importantly, MUCH sexier.

It's sad, because, by and large, I think they've done a decent job on the English localization. The lip sync is, of course, much worse; the general sound, as many others have pointed out, has a peculiarly tinny quality - as though it was recorded inside a phone box; Basch, Vaan, Penelo and Ashe have VAs that are about as good as their Japanese counterparts (though the latter three are considerably less emotional); so does Larsa; Vayne is poor - his speech to the people of Rabanastre was painfully lacking in charisma; rest of the cast is patchy; dialogue is overwritten - at times amusing, at others embarrassingly pretentious - and misses some of the subtleties present in the Japanese game, e.g. Vaan and Ashe's "don't call me you" conflict.

All in all, it's okay. The only two real sore spots for me are Fran and Balthier's voices. Fran sounds less like a centuries-old spirit-of-the-woods, and more like a poor imitation of Bjork - her every pause calculated. Balthier sounds like an errant public school boy; like Prince Charles, trying to be hip. Every time he speaks I want to knock his pompous, toffee-nosed lights out...instead of swooning, as I do when I hear his Japanese voice.

...Those are just my opinions. *shrugs*

I guess I'm just gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you completely.

I've heard Balthier's Japanese voice acting via clips on YouTube. I found his voice to be deeper and more monotone. Lacking the sly charm and humor that's in the NA version of the game. Balthier's voice shouldn't be so grave and deep as it is in the JP version. The more casual, "hip" accent as you call it, fits his personality much better in my opinion.

As for Fran, a poor imitation of björk? What are you talking about? She sounds EXACTLY like björk and it's so awesome. The accent is not one you hear everyday and it's different but it works. I find myself wishing that Fran would speak more because I love hearing her voice.

Having completed the game twice in Japanese (well, ok, not really twice, I have yet to finish the game for the second time, but I'm getting closer:p ), I must agree with Scooby, although I wouldn't go as far as she does in her assertion of both Balflear and Fran's English VA. I am disappointed with Fran, because even prior to hearing her for the first time in a japanese trailer, I had always imagined her with a deep, rather mature voice, and not with a teenager one. But I can live with it, it's just that since the japanese version seemed to go exactly the way I had thought was the most appropriate given the character's history, I find it weird that they'd do a 180° and give Fran a voice that's the opposite.

Balflear is another story because I like his English voice very much (but then maybe I don't react as strongly as Scooby because English isn't my language, so some nuances may be lost on me, or I just don't hear them the same), it's just that his Japanese VA does such an outstanding job that you're better off not comparing maybe (but you just can't help anyway:D ).

Maybe the reason why some people feel his Japanese voice lacks humour (you're not the only one to think that Miriel, I've read other similar comments on other boards ;) ) is that first, you need to hear the whole thing - every single person I know who's said that had only seen clips. Based on that, I can understand the feeling, but the performance is outstanding because Hirata provides so many nuances throughout the game that I've lost count. In English so far (I'm past Lhusu Mines now in English), I think he pretty much always has the same way of speaking, a little pedantic and tongue-in-cheek at the same time. Don't get me wrong, it does work in a good way, imo! It's just that there aren't all the variations in voice and language depending on who he's addressing that you could originally find (also maybe due to the fact that you don't use levels of speach in English the way you do in Japanese?)

I think the other reason is language. Unless you're really used to listen to japanese VAs in games or animes at least (or better, that you understand somewhat the language), I guess it's normal not to enjoy the japanese VAs, not just because of the language barrier (duh!) but also because Japanese have a whole different way of speaking when acting, traditionally, which comes from their wildely different theater traditions. Of course, those differences have been erased slightly with the influence of western cinema, but they're still there, and even more so in voice acting. Maybe one of the reasons why Balflear, and Hirata in most of his VA perfomances, stands out, is because the voice acting sounds different from most you can hear in Japan (at least, that's my opinion).

And I agree: his performance sounds definitely more natural than the English one. There's a whole notion of "cool" that has been lost in the translation somehow, unless you automatically consider English accents as "cool", no matter what. He never sounds affected, unless he's joking. And yeah, his voice is sexy :D :love: But apart from the sexiness, I imagine nuances are hard to tell unless you're used to hear japanese, as I tried to explain above

So, I'd say, apart from Fran where, for me, it's more than a question of language or quality of voice acting, but rather the voice that doesn't fit, I'd say all the English VAs did a great job in their own rights. Sure, a few things are missing from the original text (like the famous "you" running joke) but that was to be expected and, for a video game, I think there's been a lot more effort put into the translation than for most "text-intensive" games (as far as I can judge - I'm not perfectly fluent in Japanese either ;) ). So don't feel bad for not having heard the wonder that Balflear's jap VA is :D :p Especially since there are chances you'll throw tomatoes at us because you'll go "What's so special about it in the first place?". But if you've got a chance to catch the story in Japanese for some reason, and that you're curious, give it a try ;)

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

I am disappointed with Fran, because even prior to hearing her for the first time in a japanese trailer, I had always imagined her with a deep, rather mature voice, and not with a teenager one.It's not a teenager voice. Björk is a grown woman.

[Dynast-Kid]

I just heard Balthier's Japanese voice on Youtube and it is very sexy. Fran's voice is good too. I thought that the English and Japanese voices are both very good.

Anyways, I just have to comment on this...
The scene where they leave Eruyt Village was so hilarious there are no words in the English vocabulary that can accurately convey how funny I found that scene. Vaan is such a clueless little nerd!xD And Fran's face was just priceless. I'm glad SE added in a little humor to such a dark and mature story.

Kudos to Square!

[nobuteru]

Yeah, Fran and Balflear does seems more like working partners in the game. The way they talk to each other doesn't indicate much deeper relationship. But then Balflear always would talk like that. There are hints at Ashe/Balflear though, especially in the ending.Have you played the game?

There are hints that Ashe - a lonely bereaved queen - has developed a crush on Balthier by the end of the game, but there are no hints that he reciprocates her feelings at all. In fact, he acts rather blasé about her perceived crush - as though having women, including queens, fall for him is nothing new. I expect it isn't; Balthier is good-looking, charming and charismatic - it's natural that women should fall for him.

Fran made a HUGE sacrifice to be with Balthier; the choice she made - to leave her village to be with him - has had irrevocable consequences for her: she will never be accepted back into her village, or see her family and friends again. She is now an outcast; all she has is Balthier.

Of course, Fran longed for freedom and adventure - but the dialogue in the scenes in Fran's village/Golmore Jungle suggest that Balthier himself was the main reason that Fran abandoned her past (which is NOT something you do for just anyone):

FRAN WALKS WITH BALTHIER.

Balthier: Taking the shortcut?

Fran: Yes.

Balthier: Didn't you abandon your past?

Fran: There's no other way. I'm doing this for you, too.

Balthier: Hmm?

Fran: You're anxious, aren't you? The Nethicite's making you that way. It shows on your face more than you think.



YUTO LISTENS TO THE VOICE OF THE FOREST.

Yuto: It only feels nostalgia for you who left the village.

Fran: I'm happy even for the lie.

Yuto: Be careful. What the forest hates is the Hume who took you away.

Fran: I'm the same as a Hume now. Isn't that right? Goodbye, sister.


There is also a scene that I found to be very shippy.... It was up on YouTube, but it's been taken down.

Here is a description of said scene:

Fran is lying on her back, talking to Balthier, who bends over her. Her words are slow, pained (is she wounded?), and one of her hands is cupping his cheek. She smiles weakly up at him. The camera cuts to Balthier, who gazes down at her lovingly. He gently pulls her hand from his face and clasps it with his own. He smiles sadly and closes his eyes - looking both deathly afraid and "blissed out".


This is the dialogue from that scene:

Penelo: Fran!?

Fran: The mist is burning... the cocoon...throbbing... burst!

Fran: The cocoon will explode... get out of here... as fast as you can.

Balthier: Hey, Fran....

Fran: Show me how fast you can run... You're Balthier, the quickest sky pirate of all... aren't you?

Balthier: Don't leave me now.


The look in Balthier's eyes in this scene cannot be said to be anything but deep, burning love.

In addition to this, Balthier is rather possessive of Fran at times. He tells Vaan off for gawping at her when they first meet.

How could the small amount of physical chemistry between Ashe and Balthier possibly compete with the long history and deep love and trust that Fran and Balthier share?

Most everyone who's played the game thinks that there is something "more" between Fran and Bal.


is the scene detailed at the very end in referance to the happenings on Shiva? if so, this portion is not only woefully translated, visual elements seem to be cut out entirely. i hope that it is not the shiva scene that is being detailed here.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

It's not.

[the_sandman]

fran and balthier is no different from an amarant and lani thing

[Timerk]

Fran and Balthier have an adult relationship which is prolly romantic, but it is something that is kept personal between them and communicated in little comments throughout the game. They are not fighting for their love or anything like that, they are just together, and nothing more needs to be said. You could prolly argue the romantic part, but I think after playing the game, it would be hard for something to think that they were 'just friends.'

[nobuteru]

that's a relief...for me and the translation team ;) on a side note, it's amazing how my productivity has gone down in the past couple of weeks...between analyzing every nuance in the interaction between fran and balthier and the plethora of fan art they've inspired, everything else is getting pushed to the back burner... ;)

[Dewprisms]

... But an often cited example of discrepancy between the Japanese and English versions of the FF games can be found in FFX: in the Japanese game, Yuna says "thank you" to Tidus at the end - but this was changed to "I love you" in the English game. Now...that's a pretty big change! There's quite a difference between thanking someone and telling them that you love them!

Perhaps the Japanese aren't as dumb as us Americans who need to be slapped in the face with everything or else lose the meaning altogther- perhaps the 'thank you' in the original Japanese ending was more than just a 'thank you' but they changed it for fear that the less than intelligent gaming audience of the US would understand.

[Timerk]

Since Yuna was based on a traditional Japanese archetype, a Japanese audience might have been able to make certain inferences about her behavior which a Western audience could not. For example, a Japanese audience would understand the rules of formality which held her back from expressing her true feelings to Tidus, while the general American audience might think she was cold if all she said was 'thank you.'

[marysonnie]

fran and balthier is no different from an amarant and lani thingI get the impression that Fran and Balthier are good friends with a great deal of admiration, respect, and history between them; Amarant and Lani didn't care about each other at all and held each other in contempt. Amarant even turned on her when he disapproved of her tactics.

Fran and Balthier are much different. She leaves her old life behind for him, a bittersweet parting at best. They're partners, and it's both stated and implied that Amarant works alone.

[nobuteru]

... But an often cited example of discrepancy between the Japanese and English versions of the FF games can be found in FFX: in the Japanese game, Yuna says "thank you" to Tidus at the end - but this was changed to "I love you" in the English game. Now...that's a pretty big change! There's quite a difference between thanking someone and telling them that you love them!

Perhaps the Japanese aren't as dumb as us Americans who need to be slapped in the face with everything or else lose the meaning altogther- perhaps the 'thank you' in the original Japanese ending was more than just a 'thank you' but they changed it for fear that the less than intelligent gaming audience of the US would understand.

though it is a matter of cultural perception, i don't think it is a matter of "being slapped in the face." there are several reasons why an american audience would a) be upset with a relationship between fran and balthier (this thread is a testimony to that) b) would immediately discount a possible relationship between fran and balthier (once again, reading through the posts on this thread and else where would confirm that). are the possiblities of a and b happening higher in america than in japan? maybe. if so, it falls to the translation crew to adequately translate this relationship for us. translation is more than just finding the corresponding word, it is finding the corresponding feeling, i think. as i understand, it is typically not acceptable for a woman to eat out at restaurant alone in china. it would apparently have negative implications on her character, so, if i were tranlsating a scene in which a woman was eating alone at a restaurant in a non-chinese movie, i would make efforts to make it obvious that the woman was not, to be blunt, a prostitute or something similar

[scooby]

So, at the time of writing, FFXII has been out in the US for almost two months. But...I still haven't got my hands on it yet! Ah, the pains of being an English gamer.... So far, the only way I've been able to experience FFXII - in both its Japanese and English versions - is through internet download. Well, only a couple of months' more wait....

I'm still a Balthier/Fran shipper...but their inferior (IMO) English voices have made me realise how much of my initial infatuation with the couple was due to the magnificent performances of their Japanese seiyus. (Phew. Long sentence.) My passion for them has cooled a little, I must confess.

I have more to say on this subject...but I'm practically dozing off on the keyboard, so it'll have to wait until another day. So busy lately.... Even FF has had to take a backseat these days.... :cry:

[animegrl357]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY CAN'T!!!!!!!! I WON'T STAND FOR IT!!!!!! I KNEW IT!!!!1 RIGHT AFTER I READ THAT LAST PART AFTER THE CID THING IN THE WALKTHROUGH, I WAS LIKE ****!!!!!!!! i'm gonna cry now.........*sniff* this sucks!!!!!

P.S. after calming myself down from this sudden shock, i think i was a bit too emotional cause there's too many favors of this pairing out there and i don't want to make enemies. O.O but still....him and her? yea, they're partners and all, and there's a big dramatic twist, but still.......

[Sephiroth_Lionhear88]

they're not romantically involvedXD Ashe's got the hots for BalthierXD

[animegrl357]

hrmm...i thought she was still obssesed with her deceased husband. O.O
i just killed the mandagora beasts and i killed the crystalbug. fran helped me a lot!!!!! i guess i don't hate her now......but i might after the cid battle!! X(

[Dynast-Kid]

they're not romantically involvedXD Ashe's got the hots for BalthierXD

That doesn't mean Balthier reciprocates those feelings.


hrmm...i thought she was still obssesed with her deceased husband. O.O
i just killed the mandagora beasts and i killed the crystalbug. fran helped me a lot!!!!! i guess i don't hate her now......but i might after the cid battle!! X(

And if you hate Fran, the we've got a serious problem, bub.

[animegrl357]

hahaha, how can i hate a viera? besides, if i try and kill her or something, the whole entire viera place will come after me. O.O

[Dynast-Kid]

hahaha, how can i hate a viera? besides, if i try and kill her or something, the whole entire viera place will come after me. O.O

Actually, the Viera probably wouldn't care what happened to Fran. Well, maybe Mjrn.

[TRANS_AM409]

idk but if they are it wont be played up this is actually an ff game that doint revolve around love triangles and such these hardly any romance in this game

[isradelia]

Just adding a little bit...

This is my first post here, so I don't know if this needs a spoiler thing, but I'll do it anyway (I think? Not sure...) it really has nothing to do with the plot. In the NA version, after Draklor, when you find that Viera woman and set her up with the guy in the plaza, he makes a comment that he never would have thought to be with a Viera if he hadn't seen "that sky pirate and his Viera partner." Now: he considers romance with a Viera after seeing Balthier and Fran. If you saw two people walking down the street, just side by side, why would that make you consider romance with a Viera? Unless, of course, they were somehow affectionate with each other? Just a thought.
Don't know if that needed the spoiler warning, but it's there just in case.

[Rodney]

Yeah, I knew it'd happen, but I didn't see what was supposed to be at the AdventChildren.net link. Something's very wrong with it.

[atlanteay]

Yeah, I knew it'd happen, but I didn't see what was supposed to be at the AdventChildren.net link. Something's very wrong with it.

it just has a lot of speculations and spoilers about the ending and the credits.

[jessica85r]

I got the Mal / Zoey vibe off Balthier and Fran as well, though I still fell in love with the idea of them together. She says a few things to him that realy touched me (unsure how to Spoiler tag, so I won't list specifics). I keep waiting for Balthier to say somehting meaningful back to her though.

In any case, I think Balthier's blase attitude matches well with how serrious Fran is. They're both sad characters, but they're handling it differently. I like to think he might be "goofing off" to lighten her mood sometimes.

Given their lifestyle, I wonder how important their relative lifespans are to the question. What difference does the potential to outlive him by a 100 yeasr make if you both might be dead next week? Fran at least seems deep enough to have thought about this.

[Dynast-Kid]

I got the Mal / Zoey vibe off Balthier and Fran as well, though I still fell in love with the idea of them together. She says a few things to him that realy touched me (unsure how to Spoiler tag, so I won't list specifics). I keep waiting for Balthier to say somehting meaningful back to her though.

In any case, I think Balthier's blase attitude matches well with how serrious Fran is. They're both sad characters, but they're handling it differently. I like to think he might be "goofing off" to lighten her mood sometimes.

Given their lifestyle, I wonder how important their relative lifespans are to the question. What difference does the potential to outlive him by a 100 yeasr make if you both might be dead next week? Fran at least seems deep enough to have thought about this.

You're smart for a n00b.

[Gabranth]

goddamnit you guys have it all wrong, fran wants to be with balthier but he's not having it. they are strictly f buddies, and he's trying to get in on ashe's goodies too.

[jessica85r]

I can see Fran's feelings being unrequited, but I would expect "f buddies" to be more physically affectionate and less concerned for eachother.

Dynast Kid: Thankyou. I'll confess I lurked for about a week before posting.

[choco_rider]

goddamnit you guys have it all wrong, fran wants to be with balthier but he's not having it. they are strictly f buddies, and he's trying to get in on ashe's goodies too.

hahaha, that was good. you never know...balthier does seem like a player if you ask me.

[Fran]

i think they're is a relationship between them, i mean, you seen them together when u meet them, duh, along with that they work together and they know each other well, well, balthier knows her well,

[jessica85r]

Fran knows him pretty well too.


Not only does she spot his discomfort with the Nethecite, but she knows he can handle her telling him so in Golmore jungle.

I forget the exact wording, but she tells him there that she is going back to her village as much for him as herself. That's when I fell in love with the idea of them together.

[McLovin']

They probably got much closer after the Bahamut incident.

[Anno Domini]

I got the Mal / Zoey vibe off Balthier and Fran as well, though I still fell in love with the idea of them together. She says a few things to him that realy touched me (unsure how to Spoiler tag, so I won't list specifics). I keep waiting for Balthier to say somehting meaningful back to her though.

In any case, I think Balthier's blase attitude matches well with how serrious Fran is. They're both sad characters, but they're handling it differently. I like to think he might be "goofing off" to lighten her mood sometimes.

Given their lifestyle, I wonder how important their relative lifespans are to the question. What difference does the potential to outlive him by a 100 yeasr make if you both might be dead next week? Fran at least seems deep enough to have thought about this.

Wow, this made me very sad. I like Fran and Balthier, and i have thought of them as a couple before, but the whole situation reminds me very much of Tidus and Yuna (post- Macalania). they would probably want to be together-which would make me happy- but they know that they cant because Fran, like you said, would surpass him in life by quite a few years. Also, Fran has that whole situation going on back home, and may feel as though she is unworthy.

Now, unless i missed the point completely, this is a very saddening situation:cry: . I hope they do get together as most of you suggest (i have yet to finish the game).

As for ashe and Baltheir, ashe is still in love with her dead husband (someone said it, i just cant remember who- but props to whoever did b/c they got it right)

[jessica85r]

Wow, this made me very sad. I like Fran and Balthier, and i have thought of them as a couple before, but the whole situation reminds me very much of Tidus and Yuna (post- Macalania). they would probably want to be together-which would make me happy- but they know that they cant because Fran, like you said, would surpass him in life by quite a few years. Also, Fran has that whole situation going on back home, and may feel as though she is unworthy.

I can see that. Fran's subdued manner could also be taken for sadness. If you talk to Fran outside the Viera village after the specific plot with it passes, she speaks of not having had the strength to live as Viera should.
I think that her lack of confidence is a bigger hinderance tha the age thing.

Perhapse part of Balthier's blase attitude is he's waiting for her to get that "trusted partner = I think you're worth it".


As for ashe and Baltheir, ashe is still in love with her dead husband (someone said it, i just cant remember who- but props to whoever did b/c they got it right)

I think the bigger issue with an Ashe / Balthier pairing is that he doesn't seem to want to stay in one place and eventually Ashe is going to be very tied to one place (I haven't played all the way through. If this isn't the case, don't tell me). Of course, this is just another point in Fran's favor as she seems inclined to go wherever he's going. :)

[franluvr]

I was totally wondering if they like each other...they do seem like a really cute couple...I dont know I'm trying to look into this more...but i have seen a few fanarts of them looking romantic with each other lol but those are just fanart

[Garnie]

i recon she fancies him but hes just a slut

[Anaralia]

Oh, are they a couple? Really?

Dammit, I'm maybe halfway through the game, and up this point I had thought that he was her gay best friend. I don't know why they gave me that first impression, but there you go. And of course, Ashe/Balthier hadn't even crossed my mind because duh, he was gay. Sigh. This thread has changed my entire outlook on the different relationships between the characters. Thanks bunches, guys.

You know, I'm going to stick my interpretation of events, overwhelming evidence to the contrary (thanks again, guys!) be damned. It's more interesting.

[balfr06]

i absolutely adore the details of each chara's attire!
anyway, i hope to see more romance btween the couple
fran and balthier are the best!!
love the scene after the cid battle

[jessica85r]

Yeagh, that was a good scene.


The look on Balthier's face when she tells him to fly off made me want to cry.


I think that's part of why I realy want them together. They're both hiding so much pain I want to believe they can be happy.

I've been wondering if Fran left Eryut Village for another lover. Jote refrences the Humes who stole her away and Fran mentions having won her freedome. Obviously the Hume in question isn't Balthier, as this happened 50 years ago.

[Totally_obsessed]

It's never implied, although they do seem joined at the hip. And he did save her...twice. Besides, dont the Vierra mate for life?

[jessica85r]

Hard to say since the traditional Vierra all seem to never leave a village with nothing but girls, and none of those are going to discuss their relationshps with eachother with Vaan.

The only (openly) paired off Viera is the one Vaan hooks up with the guy Rabernaster I think. Her using the phrase Soulmate definately suppports the mate for life thoery though.