Explorer Destroyer

[Dr Unne]

http://explorerdestroyer.com/

This is a bit of Javascript that will nag Internet Explorer users into using Firefox. You can either use it to nag people, or use it to completely block access of your site for IE users. Of course the latter is better, but the former is better than nothing. What's more, you get money from Google each time someone clicks the button and downloads Firefox.

I think EoFF should use this. If we're running ads anyways, why not run ads that also serve a useful and beneficial purpose not only for Sean and EoFF, but for EoFF's users and for the internet in general? I'm sure EoFF runs some kind of templating system for the main site, and I know the MB uses templates where you could ad this code to a single place and probably have it display on every page, so it would be quite easy to implement.

I'm posting this in General Chat rather than in the "talk to staff forum" so that the roar of public approval for this idea will leave the staff NO CHOICE but to implement it. Thank you for your time and attention.

[Erdrick Holmes]

Hmm, how much money we talking here, Unne?

[rubah]

b0b is going to try and keep us in the dark ages 'til Kingdom Come :(

[Raistlin]

EoFF should use this and put it on Level 3.

[Captain Maxx Power]

Although I'm all for Firefox, what you're suggesting sounds like borderline fascism. That might just be me though.

[Tavrobel]

Before and After is hilarious. And the thing is that there IS a small difference.

The good thing about it is, that it infuriates Microsoft. Sweet.

[Rye]

Even though I don't entirely approve of it, I think it's hilarious. :)

[crono_logical]

Next step is someone writes software which exploits IE's bugs to forcefully install Firefox onto user's PCs :monster:

[ZeZipster]

I'd use it to install Firefox on my friend's and school's computers if it'd help EoFF. I usually install Firefox on whatever computer I use because I flat out can't use IE. I have to have the ability to middle click stuff to open a new tab. Although, IE6 is coming out soon and malignant flaws of IE might not be so horrible when it does.

[Tavrobel]

Next step is someone writes software which exploits IE's bugs to forcefully install Firefox onto user's PCs :monster:

That wouldn't be a bug exploit, that would be a vaccine.

[Levian]

It's about time you made another Anti IE thread. It's been 25 days since last time.

[Raistlin]

25 days? It felt like 25 years. We need anti-IE threads once a day.

[Big D]

It sounds a little like hassling and pestering members of the forum, or even general public, who have inferior taste in software.

It puts me in mind of the AA (or AAA, if you prefer) driving around to every internet user's house and slapping "my other car SHOULD BE a Nissan" bumper stickers onto their Hondas - or better yet, removing their distributor - because of a difference of opinion over what's better. Most hard-core internet types probably wouldn't care or understand about the relative positives and negatives of each manufacturer's vehicle, and would probably get pretty irked at being nagged by a bunch of 'car nerds'.

All well and good on someone's own website, but on a place that actually tries to cater to the general surfing game-playing public, it just seems pointlessly uppity and exclusionary.

[Raistlin]

EoFF has ads anyway. Why not just another ad, but this time one that's simple, free, and beneficial for people that click on it?

[Big D]

If it was just another ad, then sure. Just not something that's trying to pester or block users.

[Madonna]

It's a fancy and lovely way of being an assholic bigot. It's just as bad as writing a program that notes that you're using a PC and should instead be using a Mac, that you're using Linux and that Windows is the better OS, or writing the inverse of both of those opinions.

I much prefer not to tell people what they should be doing and definitely not in such an annoying way.

That said, IE sucks and I do not understand why people would use it, ever.

[starseeker]

I'm against it if it's annoying or pestering, I only use IE because I have no choice. My parents own this computer and I cannot persuade them to let me install Firefox because 'we already have an internet browser and it works fine so why do we need another one'. Yuffie the Dragon Ninja will agree with me on this, she uses the same computer.

[Zante]

Bad idea. Firefox rocks, but forcing people to use it is stupid.

[Old Manus]

It looks too much like the scam popups 'Looks like you need a bigger penis. Click here to find out how.'

[Cz]

Bloody fanboys.

[Madame Adequate]

And I view movies how if I can't use IE for them?

[bipper]

The same script can be rewritten to block firefox, opera, or whatever and the last thing I want to see is the open net being blocked to anyone. The very reason for the net's existance is to allow people to openly surf, and access the plethora of knowlage (and lack there of ;)) out there. I would never want to hinder such a thing in anyway.

This is why I do my pages with w3c compliance. IE shoots itself in the foot half the time ;)

Bipper

[Dr Unne]

Clearly reading is beyond most people here, as this script doesn't BLOCK people from seeing the site unless you specifically tell it to. It can instead display a small banner at the top of each page, which doesn't "force" anyone to use Firefox, nor does it stop anyone from seeing the web page as normal in IE.

And I view movies how if I can't use IE for them?

Download them. Interestingly, media players are made to play media, and web browsers are made to let you view web sites.

Or install the plugins which let Firefox play movies, of which there are plenty. Even Windows Media Player plugin works in Firefox, in OS X and Windows. As does Flash, which lets you view Goolge video and Youtube etc. As does Quicktime and Real player. Or use VLC (in Windows, OS X or Linux) which plays nearly all movie formats. Linux also has mplayer plug-in.

Bloody fanboys.

A fanboy is someone who is singlemindedly devoted to a product regardless of its merits. A fanboy is not someone who is devoted to a product because of its merits. I am a fanboy insofar as people who only like cars that don't explode when you drive them are fanboys of non-exploding cars. Your comment is a very effective use of <em>ad hominem</em> though. Congratulations.

All well and good on someone's own website, but on a place that actually tries to cater to the general surfing game-playing public, it just seems pointlessly uppity and exclusionary.

The banner does not prevent anyone from seeing the site. It displays a banner and then displays the site normally.

Everyone has the capacity to download Firefox for free and use it. If we were to require IE, THAT would be exlusionary, because you have to PAY for IE.

It puts me in mind of the AA (or AAA, if you prefer) driving around to every internet user's house and slapping "my other car SHOULD BE a Nissan" bumper stickers onto their Hondas - or better yet, removing their distributor - because of a difference of opinion over what's better.

Your analogy holds only if both opinions are valid, which they are not.

More like everyone driving down the street in cars with one flat tire, ripping up pavement as they go, and road-workers telling these people that there are FREE cars that actually work properly, because they're tired of having to design roads that cater to 3-wheeled cars.

If it was just another ad, then sure. Just not something that's trying to pester or block users.

It doesn't block users unless you want it to. It does pester them, but many ads pester people, including the Google ads we have right now. That's partly how they work. But in all other ways, it is just another ad.

It looks too much like the scam popups 'Looks like you need a bigger penis. Click here to find out how.'

Except that Firefox is not a scam.

Bad idea. Firefox rocks, but forcing people to use it is stupid.

It doesn't force anyone unless you want it to.

I'm against it if it's annoying or pestering, I only use IE because I have no choice. My parents own this computer and I cannot persuade them to let me install Firefox because 'we already have an internet browser and it works fine so why do we need another one'. Yuffie the Dragon Ninja will agree with me on this, she uses the same computer.

My sympathies, but I question whether the irrationality of your parents should influence anyone else's decision.

The same script can be rewritten to block firefox, opera, or whatever and the last thing I want to see is the open net being blocked to anyone.

The script does not block anyone unless you tell it to.

But yeah, I'd really hate if there were a bunch of sites out there that only work in Internet Explorer. Oh wait. There are. The difference of course is that if a site works in Firefox, it likely works in EVERYTHING ELSE other than IE. Getting people to use Firefox IS the way to standardize and open the internet. Catering to the whims of people who use broken non-standard software is what closes the internet. I know that you know this, from a web design perspective. The more MS makes IE non-standard (and they do, and will continue it) and the more people ignorantly continue to use it, the more the rest of us suffer.

[bipper]

But yeah, I'd really hate if there were a bunch of sites out there that only work in Internet Explorer. Oh wait. There are. The difference of course is that if a site works in Firefox, it likely works in EVERYTHING ELSE other than IE. Getting people to use Firefox IS the way to standardize and open the internet. Catering to the whims of people who use broken non-standard software is what closes the internet. I know that you know this, from a web design perspective. The more MS makes IE non-standard (and they do, and will continue it) and the more people ignorantly continue to use it, the more the rest of us suffer.

The way to standardize the web is to enforce cross platform standatds (IE: W3C standards). I will NEVER cater to IE, and I put the w3c compliant links on anysite I make. In FAQ's, I always add a question "Why is _____ happeneing. I am using IE" Then I will explain that IE is written with little regaurds to the w3c standards. If IE would succesfully obey and ENFORCE these external standards, I would accept it as ployable. I don't see that happening anytime soon though. I am very anti-IE, but I do not think that disclosing a webpage via script is the best way to go about converting people :p It would go over about as good as the Crusades did for Chrstianity:D Using it to pester IE - sure! :)

Bipper

[Del Murder]

Hasn't this browser war stuff gotten kind of old by now?

[rubah]

It was old back when netscape was winning.

It'll continue until browsers are equal; as of right now, they are not equal, so it can't stop~

i guess this is sort of our form of protest. There is a majority of people who uses a web browser that correctly displays all sorts of code, and this goes against the idea that there should be one uniform way that a website is displayed. When someone can't write a website and have it look like they want to because a programmer five years ago thought 'Hmm, people are stupid, let's add an extra hidden padding value because they'll inevitably forget to do it themselves' and you have to use hax or mentally account for that value and be driven to design two separate sites because it's irreconcilable, that is a problem.

If eventually enough people start using a browser that does display a website correctly, at least far more often than the opposition does, that sends a small but subtle message to the people who wrote that browser that people won't stand for these errors.

And when that happens, people will stop catering to the one in the wrong more often, just because more often than not it'll appear to be in the right.

And what a day that'll be~

[boris no no]

But I like IE

[Psychotic]

I'm going to make a site that only works in AOL Browser, and then you'll all be very sorry.

[Captain Maxx Power]

Hasn't this browser war stuff gotten kind of old by now?

My thoughts exactly. I'm slightly worried about the conviction/effort Dr Unne is going for all of this...

[XxSephirothxX]

I read about this a couple weeks ago, and I have no problem with the non-intrusive form of the program, which simply places Firefox banners on a page. Setting it not to display the page for anyone who uses IE, though, is definitely not cool.

[Dr Unne]

If IE would succesfully obey and ENFORCE these external standards, I would accept it as ployable. I don't see that happening anytime soon though. I am very anti-IE, but I do not think that disclosing a webpage via script is the best way to go about converting people

The benefits of the script are that it educates people who may not know of the existence of alternatives, and it provides a very convenient way to install the browser (two clicks) for those who are for whatever reason too lazy to visit the website directly.

If IE supported standards I'd be happy too. Might even use it myself. But it's never going to support standards so long as it can get away with being broken and no one gives a crap.

Hasn't this browser war stuff gotten kind of old by now?

Problems don't go away by ignoring them. This banner ad has the benefit that no one can possibly ignore it.


My thoughts exactly. I'm slightly worried about the conviction/effort Dr Unne is going for all of this...

Try programming for a living and see how long you last. It's like being a construction worker and every day you go to work a big group of people run over and break your shovel. I also sometimes have a problem tolerating ignorance in general. It's a failing of mine.

The effort of posting a single thread does not appear to me to be excessive in any way. Are you similarly worried about the effort people are putting into <a href="http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=83683">soda</a>? I do appreciate the condescension though. The implication that I have mental problems is not as good an attempt at <em>ad hominem</em> as some others in this thread, however.

[Madame Adequate]

And I view movies how if I can't use IE for them?

Download them. Interestingly, media players are made to play media, and web browsers are made to let you view web sites.

Or install the plugins which let Firefox play movies, of which there are plenty. Even Windows Media Player plugin works in Firefox, in OS X and Windows. As does Flash, which lets you view Goolge video and Youtube etc. As does Quicktime and Real player. Or use VLC (in Windows, OS X or Linux) which plays nearly all movie formats. Linux also has mplayer plug-in.

I would have liked to thought you had a high enough opinion of me to at least think that I had, in fact, tried downloading pretty much everything I could find with the aims of making vidoes viewable in firefox. :(

[Old Manus]

He's going to keep arguing till it gets done. Take note, feedbackers, this is how you do it.

[Raistlin]

I would have liked to thought you had a high enough opinion of me to at least think that I had, in fact, tried downloading pretty much everything I could find with the aims of making vidoes viewable in firefox. :(
Almost all movies I find online I can view in Firefox.

[Dr Unne]

I would have liked to thought you had a high enough opinion of me to at least think that I had, in fact, tried downloading pretty much everything I could find with the aims of making vidoes viewable in firefox. :(

I don't associate computer expertise with intelligence. I know many very intelligent people who aren't at all computer experts. I meant no insult to your intelligence. My apologies.

There are many reasons why Firefox may be having problems displaying movies, many of which are indeed Firefox problems but many of which aren't. I have also experienced such problems myself in Firefox, and in other browsers including IE. My only point is that Firefox does have some level of capability to display movies via plugins.

He's going to keep arguing till it gets done. Take note, feedbackers, this is how you do it.

Or until someone proves me wrong. Which shouldn't be hard, if I am wrong.

[Old Manus]

But I think you know that you are right, so how can you know that you can be proved wrong?

[Dr Unne]

But I think you know that you are right, so how can you know that you can be proved wrong?

I think I'm right, but I'm open to the possibility of being shown to be wrong. Anything less is intellectually dishonest.

[Old Manus]

Then I await the result.

[bipper]

I like opera, but I HATE the way the way it treats #body and #HTML as the same damn thing.

I hate the forum Nazi forms that safari uses. I am so full of hate. Really, Firefox is the answer.

As I was saying, people just don't know these design [flaws]. The same goes for any industry though. Prehapse I am a moron for driving my station wagon, and drinking Coke. At least us ignorant computer bastards are nice enough to let people know the fact s by polluting web forums with our tangeble propaganda. !! Rawr

[Rase]

That's a pretty sweet graph on that site.

Anyway, I couldn't care less about having some banner tell me what to do, as I'll probably just ignore it. As long as I can access EoFF with whatever browser I want, I don't see a problem with it.

Basically, as long as it stays on Level 1, I'm fine.

[Captain Maxx Power]

Try programming for a living and see how long you last. It's like being a construction worker and every day you go to work a big group of people run over and break your shovel. I also sometimes have a problem tolerating ignorance in general. It's a failing of mine.

The effort of posting a single thread does not appear to me to be excessive in any way. Are you similarly worried about the effort people are putting into <a href="http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=83683">soda</a>? I do appreciate the condescension though. The implication that I have mental problems is not as good an attempt at <em>ad hominem</em> as some others in this thread, however.

Who said I was attempting ad hominen? I'm insulted that you'd think I'd even pull tactics such as this. If you go look at some of the posts I've made in the past you'll see I try my best to bring attention to the person's post rather than their character. My point is that, whatever reasons you may have, however valid, for suggesting such action, the response to others in the thread seems quite extensive. A lot of people have place a few lines or a paragraph tops. Your posts are quite long winded (I even seem to remember you responded to almost every poster above you with a thorough response or thereabouts). How in the name of sweet jimmeny you'd think I was suggesting mental problems I can't quite get my head around. Perhaps it was an involuntary reaction to something you percieved to be an attack on your conviction, and if that's the case then I'm sorry.

But my original comment still stands. You are putting in quite some effort into convincing whomever posts on this topic to your way of thinking, and to me that constitutes as noticeable effort on your part. I do not mean this as a bad thing, it's merely an observation. In all honesty you can climb the highest mountain and shout "I hate IE and so should you!" if you want. I use Firefox so I'm on your side. Plus I understand your reasons for doing this. All I did was comment on the matter.

[Dr Unne]

Who said I was attempting ad hominen?

<em>Ad hominem</em> is bringing attention to the person making an argument rather than addressing the argument itself. I interpreted your comment as sarcasm, and if I was wrong I apologize, but your comment is still irrelevant. This is becoming off-topic though.

[Raistlin]

Maxx - it's called a debate. Is any debating excessive? This one actually has the chance to bring practical results, which is different than any of those huge debates in EoEO and formerly EotW.

[Madame Adequate]

I would have liked to thought you had a high enough opinion of me to at least think that I had, in fact, tried downloading pretty much everything I could find with the aims of making vidoes viewable in firefox. :(

I don't associate computer expertise with intelligence. I know many very intelligent people who aren't at all computer experts. I meant no insult to your intelligence. My apologies.

Eh, it's cool, and you make a fair point. Still, I have tried pretty much everything I can think of (Which I admit, probably falls rather short of everything I could try.) and no dice. IE works no problem. *Shrugs* So yeah :p

[Del Murder]

Of what concern is which browser someone uses to Eyes on Final Fantasy? Or to anyone but he or she who uses it?

[Raistlin]

Of what concern is which browser someone uses to Eyes on Final Fantasy? Or to anyone but he or she who uses it?
Did you read any of Unne's posts? A lot of websites use non-standard code because that's what IE uses.

[ZeZipster]

Of what concern is which browser someone uses to Eyes on Final Fantasy? Or to anyone but he or she who uses it?

Because:


Less work if someone decides to update.
More compatible with various functions of EoFF. An example being the animated favicon.
You'll be making moneys.
More security for EoFF'ers. Even if it doesn't help EoFF directly I'm sure you care about our security, right?
I'm gonna go outside my dominion of knowledge and claim that it'll reduce the server load by speeding up how fast people download.
It'll make you guys cash.
You'd be helping out the entire web altogether and helping to end Microsoft's monopoly.
Google would be paying you.


Pretty pathetic list, I know. But if you dignify that everyone should be using Firefox then getting paid to have people get it is pretty much awesome. All the cool kids are doing it. Even the Google start page in IE has an ad for Firefox.

[Del Murder]

Did you read any of Unne's posts? A lot of websites use non-standard code because that's what IE uses.
Does Eyeson do this? I guess you're not the person to ask.

The reasons listed imply this is probably something only Sean could decide on. Anyway, I don't see it as such a big deal.

[Miriel]

Silly Tony, not using firefox makes the png signatures look all funky. And that's like... a tragedy.

[crono_logical]

For those of you using Windows that have the lame excuse that it's not your computer/you're not allowed to install software because someone else said so/blah blah blah:

Introducing:

<b>Portable Firefox</b> (http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/browsers/portable_firefox)

It doesn't "install" like normal software, just unpacks itself somewhere (probably somewhere you can hide it :p ) and you can run it :D Usually better for portable devices, but I find it's just as great on machines you're not able to install on because you're not admin, such as at work :p

[Madonna]

Because:


You'll be making moneys.
It'll make you guys cash.
Google would be paying you.
Not to be a jackass, but I'm pretty sure that Google already pays El Presidente Cid. :|

Sorry, played Symphonia recently. I still agree that Firefox is the way to go, but I'm not going to tell anyone that in such a heavy-handed way.

P.S. - Opera sucks.

[bipper]

Did you read any of Unne's posts? A lot of websites use non-standard code because that's what IE uses.
Does Eyeson do this?


No. Eyeson and these forums crap in the face of standards. We blame IE and there DAMN FRONTPAGE!

Seriosuly, the people whom make vbulliten have no respect for the standards. I, in turn, have little respect for thier coding aptitude. Its ignorance and stupidity on thier part. Its like the one guy in a project whom wants to do things HIS way, so he ditches and tangeble standards and does so - not caring about anything outside of his narrow little scope.

Why is this? Use XHTML 1.1 Strict with CSS 2.0. The page will look cleaner and will work on any compliant browser, palm pilot, even the handycaped fans of final fantasy would be able to visit these forums without a hitch. There is a reason the languages and specifications for the nets programmers have changed, because the mediums and surfers have changed over the past 6 years. [there are about 5 other benefits I could list off but for sake of time, I will shut up]

There ya have it - not making the page as handicap excessable as it can be alone is the immoral and corupt. Little Timmy smite you all!:tonberry:

[edit] Cough* oh yeah, so I don't see the browsers and playing a part in the war. As long as people obey standards and test thier pages with Firefox or Amaya, IE will shoot itself in the foot, and the peasents will rejoice!

;)
Bipper

[ZeZipster]

Because:


You'll be making moneys.
It'll make you guys cash.
Google would be paying you.
Not to be a jackass, but I'm pretty sure that Google already pays El Presidente Cid. :|

Sorry, played Symphonia recently. I still agree that Firefox is the way to go, but I'm not going to tell anyone that in such a heavy-handed way.

P.S. - Opera sucks.

Oh, sorry. I didn't realize Cid didn't want any more Cash. I guess I'll stop clicking the ads now.