In Advent Children, are Tifa and Cloud engaged/married!?

[lovin_life88]

I've been wondering this since I've seen the movie. Tifa has a ring on her finger, for one, and two, her and Cloud have a conversation sorta like this:

Tifa: You have geostigma, don't you?
(Cloud doesn't reply)
Tifa: We can fight it. Together.
Cloud: There's no cure.
Tifa: That's not stopping Denzel, is it?
(Cloud doesn't reply again)
Tifa: Or... do we have to be a REAL family for that to happen?
(Cloud looks at her)
Cloud: Tifa...
(Tifa looks over at Cloud)
Cloud: I'm not fit to help anyone. Not my family, not my friends. No one.

And when she says, "Or do we have to be a real family for that to happen?" I think it means that they're not a REAL family (like related) but they could be engaged or married. Any thoughts?

[Ballistix Man]

No they arent.

[zbonks]

okay the beginning of the title says "In Advent Children" so shouldn't this thread be in the advent children forums?

[Khaotic]

Yes, it should, but thats just spamming and acting like a CK, so, to stay on topic, they aren't married, but they do seem awfully close, more than friends.

[Zeromus_X]

Either

1.) They still remain ambiguous for fans to speculate

2.) It's answered in those novellas (?)

Either way, Tifa/Cloud shippers are thoroughly drooling. :cat:

[LunarWeaver]

If they don't get married soon, they never will... Tifa can only bottle her love for so long before it moves to someone else (Reno, hello!)

[Ryushikaze]

They've adopted a kid, they seem to share a room in CoT (to forestall- the rooms we see in AC are the kid's room and Cloud's office, which is referred to seperately from the room he sleeps in), she's the Cloudy Wolf ring with the inset gem (Denzel has a ring as well, but it does not have the gem inset to my memory), etc. etc. etc.

So, we're not sure, signs are looking up.

[Dreddz]

There not.

[lady yunalesca]

There not.


i am told that this is because he is saving himself for me:cool:

[Sephex]

They aren't engaged or married, but I think if Cloud popped the question Tifa would have zero objections.

[Wrexsoul]

If they don't get married soon, they never will... Tifa can only bottle her love for so long before it moves to someone else (Reno, hello!)
:D Ha ha, seriously.

But anyway, I severely doubt that Tifa and Cloud are engaged, much less a couple. They just don't act like it at all. And while Tifa wears a ring, it's on her RIGHT hand....

There were little things going on in "Case of Tifa," such as Cloud getting all cute and blushing at some point, but I think that even at the time of AC, there's no romance between them. Although I'd like to think that they DO get together. Eventually. Finally.

[Ryushikaze]

Actually, Wrexsoul, you do know that it's a fairly common custom to wear the engagement ring on the right hand and then switch it over at the time of marriage, yes?

[lovin_life88]

Yeah... I was just wondering because a lot of people think they are. I mean, I don't get why they never got together in Final Fantasy VII cause there are alot of little things that lead to a relationship between the two. The date, for one. Tifa ALMOST tells Cloud how she feels and then the ride stops, and the memory part, too. Cloud said he wanted to impress her and things like that. In every Final Fantasy, there is some sort of love story, but in FF7, it seems that there's a love triangle between Cloud, Aeris, and Tifa, but you never really know who Cloud really likes most. Just weird.

[Wrexsoul]

Actually, Wrexsoul, you do know that it's a fairly common custom to wear the engagement ring on the right hand and then switch it over at the time of marriage, yes?
.................it IS??? 0__0 I guess it seemed like the engaged people around me kept the ring on their left hand, so I just assumed everyone did... hmmmm......

As much as I would *like* Tifa and Cloud to be engaged, I just don't get that impression when I watch the movie. It's a nice thought and I would rather it be true. But I think this is the best we can get, considering all hell would break loose if the love triangle were actually resolved...

[Zeromus_X]

But I think this is the best we can get, considering all hell would break loose if the love triangle were actually resolved...

This is pretty much why they remain ambiguous. :cat:

Though I always just assumed they got together in the first place. :cat:

[BatChao]

When I saw the movie I got the impression that they're trying to get together, but Cloud is being haunted by the memories of Aerith, which is holding him back.

[TheAbominatrix]

From Case of Tifa (if you havent read it yet, please do... and if you dont know, yes it is an official SE novella, not a fanfic or anything), it seems like their relationship was on a strong path until Elmyra (that was her name, yeah? It's been a while) employed Strife delivery service to send a bouquet of flowers to Aerith's final resting place. This sent Cloud spiraling into depression and guilt again, not only over Aerith, but over everyone he failed. I think he got to the point where he felt like he would fail Tifa again as well (and does feel like that in AC when he finds her beaten in the church, as evidenced by the wolf showing up again).

As for the ring itself, it could be anything. Supposedly Barret has one as well, but that's not to say that Tifa's couldnt be a promise ring (and promise rings are often worn on the right hand to avoid confusion with engagement rings) or even an actual engagement ring.

Regardless, now that Cloud has been freed from the heavy burden of guilt, I dont see any reason why he and Tifa wouldnt pursue their relationship even further, to the point of marriage.

[Ryushikaze]

The 'Barret has one' line is, as far as I can tell, mindless opposition to the ring as evidence. While Barret does indeed have a ring, it's the same one he was wearing in FF7 (IE- his original wedding band) and looks absolutely nothing like Tifa's. Not only that, Tifa's band is expressedly ID'd as the 'Cloudy wolf ring' which cannot be said of any other ring you happen to see in the movie.

[PontiusPilate]

no

[TheAbominatrix]

Which is why I said supposedly, because I, personally, have not seen the ring on Barret's finger and have no clue what it is. Thanks for clearing it up for me <3

[lovin_life88]

Where do I find this Case of Tifa or whatever?

[Shiny]

They don't seem to want to sleep in the same bed. Now, either they have serious relationship issues, or they aren't together like that.

[TheAbominatrix]

Where's evidence of that? As has been said, the only bedroom we see is Denzel and Marlene's. And also, they are in the middle of serious relationship issues in the course of AC, thanks to the guilt and what Cloud sees as his impending death.

http://www.ff7ac.net/?s=pages/shorts/1 Case of Tifa can be read here, along with the other novellas.

[Shiny]

I can't find the pictures of it right now. But if you watch a video called Cloud's Dream Part II(on youtube) it has the scene taken directly from Advent Children of them sleeping in different beds. Although Cloud lives in the church there is no evidence of him sleeping inside of it.

[Zeromus_X]

Well, I guess in older Japan, that wasn't too uncommon. In like, arranged marriages. Or I could be wrong. Meh. :cat:

[TheAbominatrix]

In one scene they are in seperate beds, yes. Its stated, however, that they're in Denzel and Marlene's room.

[Kain424]

It always seemed, to me at least, that Tifa wanted the relationship more than Cloud, who was always off thinking of his own problems.

There was a scene in FF7 where the two sat together beneath the Highwind... of this we only get part of their conversation as the night turned to early morning, but Tifa wants him to stay "a little longer" and he seems uneasy.

In Advent Children, Cloud looks to have taken this even further. Perhaps there is a possibility of a relationship, but during the film, Cloud seems to use his guilty feelings and insecurities to shield himself from others. He doesn't want others to even know he's sick, let alone how he feels about Tifa. So he speaks in broad generalizations, covering the scope of his fears (losing family, friends, and everyone else) without having to admit the details.

Also, at the end of FF7, Tifa sort of embraces Cloud as they hang onto the cliff's edge, as she get's close to him, Cloud brings up Aerith, and it almost looks like Tifa kinda resigns herself a bit to the situation. Then, when they are sitting together, they are again interrupted wondering where the others are, who are on another ledge waving. Just more stuff to think about.

[lovin_life88]

Yeah I know what you mean! There are a ton of signs that the two MAY be together, but I mean you never really know... Oh and thanks TheAbominatrix. I'll have to read it!! ;)

[Ryushikaze]

It always seemed, to me at least, that Tifa wanted the relationship more than Cloud, who was always off thinking of his own problems.

There was a scene in FF7 where the two sat together beneath the Highwind... of this we only get part of their conversation as the night turned to early morning, but Tifa wants him to stay "a little longer" and he seems uneasy.

Uneasy? Elaborate on what gives you this impression.


In Advent Children, Cloud looks to have taken this even further. Perhaps there is a possibility of a relationship, but during the film, Cloud seems to use his guilty feelings and insecurities to shield himself from others. He doesn't want others to even know he's sick, let alone how he feels about Tifa. So he speaks in broad generalizations, covering the scope of his fears (losing family, friends, and everyone else) without having to admit the details.

He feels like an utter failure for letting Zack, Aerith, and his entire hometown die, is suffering from an incurable and eventually fatal wasting disease, and doesn't want to be a burden on anyone.


Also, at the end of FF7, Tifa sort of embraces Cloud as they hang onto the cliff's edge, as she get's close to him, Cloud brings up Aerith, and it almost looks like Tifa kinda resigns herself a bit to the situation. Then, when they are sitting together, they are again interrupted wondering where the others are, who are on another ledge waving. Just more stuff to think about.

I hate it when people try and bring the crater into the LTD when it requires divorcing the entire scene from context to make it work.

[lovin_life88]

Yeah I suppose. That one part in "The Case Of Tifa" though...
Tifa: Cloud you're smiling
Cloud: Am I?
Tifa:Yeah
Cloud: Everything starts now. A new... A new life... I'm going to live. I think that's the only way I can be forgiven. We've been through... All sorts of things.
Tifa: I guess you're right
Cloud: But when I think about how many times I've thought about starting a new life, it's funny
Tifa: Why?
Cloud: I've always failed to do it
Tifa: That's not funny
Cloud:...I think it'll be all right this time
(he becomes silent for a moment)
Cloud: Because you're always with me
Tifa: I wasn't always with you...
Cloud: From now on, that's how things are gonna be.

Just something about that part. I dunno, it may sound stupid, but is there some sort of connection there at all??

[TheAbominatrix]

Of course there is. It's all open to interpretation, but what I see it as is this.

Cloud is telling Tifa that he wants her by his side always (from now on). That's saying a lot, especially since he seperated easily from the rest of the party. He's also telling her that, by having her at his side he feels strong enough to start a new life, to move on and to live on.

[~SapphireStar~]

In Advent Children, are Tifa and Cloud engaged/married!?
IMO no, I dont recall any rings on their fingers. I think they are just very close friends like before. But if you want to believe otherwise, do so.

[Amaru]

I'm with the majority on this. I don't believe that they are engaged to marry, but there are signs that they are in some sort of relationship, until things triggered before AC starts. With Aeris and his guilt finally put to rest, there's nothing stopping them now.

[Reeno the Alchemist]

they better not be i hate tifa and shes not aloud to have him Xb

[TheAbominatrix]

In Advent Children, are Tifa and Cloud engaged/married!?
IMO no, I dont recall any rings on their fingers. I think they are just very close friends like before. But if you want to believe otherwise, do so.
Tifa's wearing Cloud's Fenrir ring in the film. It's of course up to intepretation, but there is a ring involved.

[~SapphireStar~]

Tifa's wearing Cloud's Fenrir ring in the film. It's of course up to intepretation, but there is a ring involved.
Really I dont recall seeing one. Hmm, maybe.

[TheAbominatrix]

For those curious as to the ring, here's a screenshot.

[Ryushikaze]

There's a much better shot of the ring in the final scene when she holds Denzel's shoulders. Or in the prologue book.

[PontiusPilate]

This thread is lame. They aren't engaged. Period! Maybe something will happen later? who knows? but i am a 110% im sure right

[TheAbominatrix]

There's a much better shot of the ring in the final scene when she holds Denzel's shoulders. Or in the prologue book.
Feel free to cap it then.

[Ryushikaze]

Will do. May be a day or so before I get around to it, but Can do.

[Duncan]

Doesn't Tifa say something in the movie about their relationship being on hold because of a memory? I don't remember the exact quote but I believe that she was meaning that she wants to be with Cloud but Cloud was keeping to him self as a result of the guilty feelings for Aerith (and everything else).

[~SapphireStar~]

Yeah I seen that screeshot when I rewatched it. But I dont recall Cloud having a ring, so its it a random ring he gave her? It is her engagment finger isnt it?



This thread is lame. They aren't engaged. Period! Maybe something will happen later? who knows? but i am a 110% im sure right
Dont like it? Then dont post. You may be 110% wrong.

[Hayabusa]

When I saw the movie I got the impression that they're trying to get together, but Cloud is being haunted by the memories of Aerith, which is holding him back.

Ok - here's what I think - I really think Cloud and Tifa really have feelings for each other - But Cloud will always have a love for Aries - That's why he has visions and the memory of her - but in the GAME - They spent the night together on the Highwind....I thought that was pretty special - and in Advent Children - IT took me awile to understand but Denzel is their adopted kid and Tifa and Cloud are in Item but Cloud is/was a drifter- until the very end when he realizes he's not alone- He'll be with Tifa, but he will still always love Aries. I know I'm spelling her name wrong too sorry :(

[~SapphireStar~]

IT took me awile to understand but Denzel is their adopted kid
What? Wheres the proof? They are living with the orphens cause Rufus mentions it. Barret mentions protecting your mother, but I think it meant to protect your carer, but the translation was muddled up. I havent seen the dubbed version, so he may say something different that makes you believe that.

[Rin.]

Where's evidence of that? As has been said, the only bedroom we see is Denzel and Marlene's. And also, they are in the middle of serious relationship issues in the course of AC, thanks to the guilt and what Cloud sees as his impending death.

http://www.ff7ac.net/?s=pages/shorts/1 Case of Tifa can be read here, along with the other novellas.
Awesome, i read case of Denzel, but couldnt for the life of me find Case Of tifa even though i'd heard of it.
Thanks!

[PontiusPilate]

This thread is lame. They aren't engaged. Period! Maybe something will happen later? who knows? but i am a 110% im sure right
Dont like it? Then dont post. You may be 110% wrong.

No and No. I dont like it but I am posting to settle the arguement. And no, sorry but its defintaely 110% right

[~SapphireStar~]

You will never settle this "arguement", last time I checked it was a simply question. We chose what they want to believe. You claiming you are 110% right isnt going to change our minds.

[PontiusPilate]

i know, i just felt like stating the facts

[Ryushikaze]

IT took me awile to understand but Denzel is their adopted kid
What? Wheres the proof? They are living with the orphens cause Rufus mentions it. Barret mentions protecting your mother, but I think it meant to protect your carer, but the translation was muddled up. I havent seen the dubbed version, so he may say something different that makes you believe that.
Read on the way to a Smile, which was linked to earlier in this thread for more info. And yes, Barret does say 'protect your mom' in both versions.

And Denzel and Marlene are the only orphans Cloud and Tifa are taking care of.


Ok - here's what I think - I really think Cloud and Tifa really have feelings for each other - But Cloud will always have a love for Aries - That's why he has visions and the memory of her - but in the GAME - They spent the night together on the Highwind....I thought that was pretty special - and in Advent Children - IT took me awile to understand but Denzel is their adopted kid and Tifa and Cloud are in Item but Cloud is/was a drifter- until the very end when he realizes he's not alone- He'll be with Tifa, but he will still always love Aries. I know I'm spelling her name wrong too sorry
Cloud has visions of Aerith because she is actually contacting him.
As for always loving Aerith, that's nothing special. The entire party loves Aerith (I know you mean Romantic Love, but there's actually rather little to suggest Cloud is romantically inclined towards her and a decent bit of evidence against that idea). Cloud feels guilt over letting her, Zack, his Hometown, etc. die, which added to his contraction of Geostigma caused him to believe he could never gain redemption, that he was useless, etc, which caused his self imposed exile.


i know, i just felt like stating the facts
What Facts?

[Leeza]

PontiusPilate: Do NOT state your opinions as facts.

~SapphireStar~: Stay out of it.

[PontiusPilate]

Ok this is why i state what i say as a fact...

1. No where do they state that Cloud and Tifa are engaged.
2. Square would have went out and said it if they were.
3. Saying Cloud and Tifa are engaged is as trivial as saying that Cloud is actually Hitler dressed up in a custume. They never said he wasnt, but that doesnt mean he is.

Thats why its my opinion to say that what think is a fact. And by you telling me that i cant have an opinion to say what i think is a fact is contradicting yourself

[Leeza]

Thats why its my opinion to say that what think is a fact. And by you telling me that i cant have an opinion to say what i think is a fact is contradicting yourself

Yes, it is a fact that you have an opinion, but your opinion is not fact so post accordingly.

Opinion
1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: “The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion” (Elizabeth Drew).
2. A judgment based on special knowledge and given by an expert: a medical opinion.
3. A judgment or estimation of the merit of a person or thing: has a low opinion of braggarts.
4. The prevailing view: public opinion.

Fact
1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.
2. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
3. A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.
4. Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.

[Hayabusa]

Barret mentions protecting your mother, but I think it meant to protect your carer, but the translation was muddled up. I havent seen the dubbed version, so he may say something different that makes you believe that.

Yes I was using that quote to provide the theory but I haven't seen the "Official" translation yet.



[Cloud has visions of Aerith because she is actually contacting him.
As for always loving Aerith, that's nothing special. The entire party loves Aerith (I know you mean Romantic Love, but there's actually rather little to suggest Cloud is romantically inclined towards her and a decent bit of evidence against that idea). Cloud feels guilt over letting her, Zack, his Hometown, etc. die, which added to his contraction of Geostigma caused him to believe he could never gain redemption, that he was useless, etc, which caused his self imposed exile.

I know she was contacting him, but look at his face man - He loved it, yet was sad just like when he was on the way to save the kids he turns around and BLAM back in the world dodging bullets. Kind of depressing.

[Ryushikaze]

I know she was contacting him, but look at his face man - He loved it, yet was sad just like when he was on the way to save the kids he turns around and BLAM back in the world dodging bullets. Kind of depressing.

I do look at his face. He ISN'T loving it. He's confused as all get out, then he starts kicking himself when Aerith appears, then he's confused again when she punts him back to reality.

Now if you mean in the end when they're leaving, yes, he's happy. It's because two of his best friends are making a special appearance to give him their best wishes and drive home the message that he has nothing to kick himself for.

[Mika]

Actually, Wrexsoul, you do know that it's a fairly common custom to wear the engagement ring on the right hand and then switch it over at the time of marriage, yes?

Yes, you're right. I think it's obvious something is between them. Also, during the scene where it's just Cloud and Tifa, Tifa slams her hand on the bed and the camera focused a lot on the ring on her finger. Kinda...emphasizing it.

[PontiusPilate]

I really don't want to get bogged down in semantics since it effectively stops any creative discussion. I think i might open a thread about how Cloud is really Adolf Hitler in disguise. No one can prove I'm wrong, but I can take random lines from the movie and somehow relate them to why Cloud is really Hitler.
Just like everyone here is doing now. It makes just about as much sense as my claiming that the following statements relating hitler to cloud.

Rufus: "Listen..."

Cloud: "Don't wanna hear it!"

Hitler can be related to Cloud in this scene because he is refusing to listen to what rufus has to say just like Hitler refused to listen to what America had to say about invading Poland.

Have fun with your opinions though :)

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

PontiusPilate, don't make me say it again. Knock it off.

[PontiusPilate]

Fine. I'll stop. I was having so much fun too:p

[smurph]

Cloud and tifa are just friends...with benefits

[PontiusPilate]

Cloud and tifa are just friends...with benefits

Damn right, Clouds a pimp

[FaTaLfURy]

I've been wondering this since I've seen the movie. Tifa has a ring on her finger, for one, and two, her and Cloud have a conversation sorta like this:

Tifa: You have geostigma, don't you?
(Cloud doesn't reply)
Tifa: We can fight it. Together.
Cloud: There's no cure.
Tifa: That's not stopping Denzel, is it?
(Cloud doesn't reply again)
Tifa: Or... do we have to be a REAL family for that to happen?
(Cloud looks at her)
Cloud: Tifa...
(Tifa looks over at Cloud)
Cloud: I'm not fit to help anyone. Not my family, not my friends. No one.

And when she says, "Or do we have to be a real family for that to happen?" I think it means that they're not a REAL family (like related) but they could be engaged or married. Any thoughts?

INFO: Here's what's really been said in Nihonggo:

TIFA: It's called 'geostigma', isn't it?
(Cloud is silent)
TIFA: Do you think it's okay for you to just die like this?
(Cloud's still silent)
TIFA: So I'm right.
CLOUD: There is no cure.
TIFA: But Denzel's doing his best, isn't he? Don't run away, don't you want to fight this together with us? Let's do our best and help each other out.
(Cloud is silent again)
TIFA: We aren't your true family, so I guess it's hopeless.
CLOUD: I think I'm not going to be able to save anyone. Not family, not friends. No one.

And just to answer your question, nope they are not engaged/married. At least nothing in AC shows that they are. But they ARE romantically involved/have been romantically involved. After watching the movie about 10 times now and mulling things over, that's one of the things I discovered. After all, Cloud DID live together with Tifa and the kids before he went on his own and he even made his office at the 7th Heaven right? And from the look of the place, there isn't much room in there. If memory serves right, I saw just 3 (or was it 2?) doors at the corridor. Meaning, one is for kids, the other for the office and another room for Cloud and Tifa (or the office/bedroom for them both). And if you're thinking for even a second that nothing's happening between them, think again. ^_^ And I've been here in Japan long enough to know how these people's minds work. ;) And if the look Tifa was giving Cloud near the ending was an indication, then things are definitely on the works for them. ^_^

If you have other questions, please feel free to ask. hehehe.

Ja ne! ^_^

[Kadaaju]

I'm just going to do my best to HOPE that Cloud and Tifa AREN'T engaged or married.

[Kadaaju]

-twitch-

[PontiusPilate]

Cloud cant get engaged with tifa. Even though she's dead, cloud will never stop loving aeris

[Ryushikaze]

Cloud cant get engaged with tifa. Even though she's dead, cloud will never stop loving aeris

I DESPISE people who make claims like this and never provide a scrap of evidence for their claims, as I've said several times already. You, my friend, are the proverbial straw. As such, I'm throwing the guantlet.

What this entails? You are expected to PROVE IT.

Prove Cloud ever considered Aerith romantically, especially in light of his recalling, and then later declaring in her presence (His meeting with his mother during the Nibleheim events) that he was not interested in Older girls who were the mothering type, and that his dearest memories were of Tifa, not of Aerith. And in light of his words to Tifa immediately post FF7 (in Case of Tifa), their living together, the cloudy wolf ring, their adopting of a child, etc. In short, PONY UP and provide evidence, taken IN context, to support your claim that Cloud was romantically interested in Aerith, much less that Cloud and Tifa will never get hitched because the Chocobo headed fool will pine eternally for the flower girl.

Feel free to make a seperate thread on it, as it might be somewhat off topic for this one, but definitely adress the challenge, or consider your claim conceeded.

[Lildude]

Tifa and Cloud arent married... and they almost never will...:eek: but maybe in the future SquareCnix might make another movie with Tifa and Cloud getting married... but for now, they arent married... In the movie when the children are getting a dip in the holy water, Tifa smiles sooo cutely and then Cloud gets a imagination... He sees Zack and Aeris behind Tifa or himself... i dont remember cuz its been a long time since i watched the movie... :love:

[ThaJinx]

I DESPISE people who make claims like this and never provide a scrap of evidence for their claims, as I've said several times already. You, my friend, are the proverbial straw. As such, I'm throwing the guantlet.I may very well love you.

[LunarWeaver]

I like Tifa better, so yes Cloud and Tifa are married. You want evidence? Tifa said "zuruzuru" to him...that obviously means they are married.

On a serious note...Similar to how Link will never talk because Nintendo fears their fan-base, Cloud will never choose one of his ladies because Square fears being burned alive by their fan-base.

Cloud is too busy saving the Planet and wearing black for girls anyway.

[ThaJinx]

I like Tifa better, so yes Cloud and Tifa are married. You want evidence? Tifa said "zuruzuru" to him...that obviously means they are married.

On a serious note...Similar to how Link will never talk because Nintendo fears their fan-base, Cloud will never choose one of his ladies because Square fears being burned alive by their fan-base.

Cloud is too busy saving the Planet and wearing black for girls anyway.Cloud is traditionally too conflicted to pick either of them anyway. If you look at the Character Map in the Ultimania Omega guide, there are "Romantic" arrows going from Aeris, Tifa, and Jessie to Cloud, but he doesn't have any pointing back at any of the three. In a lot of ways, Cloud's not able to let himself hit that level because he's got a lot of things to get through on his own, first.

[PontiusPilate]

Cloud cant get engaged with tifa. Even though she's dead, cloud will never stop loving aeris

I DESPISE people who make claims like this and never provide a scrap of evidence for their claims, as I've said several times already. You, my friend, are the proverbial straw. As such, I'm throwing the guantlet.

What this entails? You are expected to PROVE IT.

Prove Cloud ever considered Aerith romantically, especially in light of his recalling, and then later declaring in her presence (His meeting with his mother during the Nibleheim events) that he was not interested in Older girls who were the mothering type, and that his dearest memories were of Tifa, not of Aerith. And in light of his words to Tifa immediately post FF7 (in Case of Tifa), their living together, the cloudy wolf ring, their adopting of a child, etc. In short, PONY UP and provide evidence, taken IN context, to support your claim that Cloud was romantically interested in Aerith, much less that Cloud and Tifa will never get hitched because the Chocobo headed fool will pine eternally for the flower girl.

Feel free to make a seperate thread on it, as it might be somewhat off topic for this one, but definitely adress the challenge, or consider your claim conceeded.

Quit whining. I was just saying it as a suggestion. I actually want to change my statement. Theirs about as much proof that cloud loves tifa as there is that she loves aeris and that is none.

If you want honest opinion. I think Tifa and cloud are NOT engaged. Their is no substantial proof that they are and the vague little snippets information, that if people tried really hard, could be twisted into making it look like Cloud and Tifa have "something" between each other.

Now tell me, did cloud flirt with tifa at any point in the movie? Didn't think so. I'd hope that when you have a girlfriend that you would flirt or something to show you like her. Flirting is a much bigger sign then random wolf rings or other such items that could suggest something between tifa and cloud. And if i do turn out to be wrong. Judging by how much they dont flirt, i'll give them about a year till they divorce.

And when u say "evidence" or "proof" to back things up im assuming u meant cold hard evidence, which neither you or anyone else here can seem to give. For example. Cloud and Tifa holding hands or kissing would be cold hard proof. Their is more cold hard evidence that they arent engaged. The fact that they dont flirt, touch or do anything romantic IMO already outweighs any other evidence they are together given. IMO they are not officially together until you can prove that they are (i mean real proof), not the other way around

[Ryushikaze]

Quit whining. I was just saying it as a suggestion.

THIS is a suggestion?
Cloud cant get engaged with tifa. Even though she's dead, cloud will never stop loving aeris
Is a rather solid declarative


I actually want to change my statement. Theirs about as much proof that cloud loves tifa as there is that she loves aeris and that is none.

Except for first hand testimonial- such as his words to her right after Holy's success- notable courses of actions- abandoning a just hired to position as a bodyguard to go chase after her- his dearest memories are of her, he left town and changed his entire life in order to become someone good enough for Tifa, he friggin decided to adopt a child with her, for crying out loud. Nope. Not a scrap of proof. ::rolls eyes::


If you want honest opinion. I think Tifa and cloud are NOT engaged. Their is no substantial proof that they are and the vague little snippets information, that if people tried really hard, could be twisted into making it look like Cloud and Tifa have "something" between each other.

That's because romance is honestly NOT important to the plot of either FF7 or AC. It's a side element- a fun one, but it takes secondary precedence to the main stories (Cloud's mental issues and that whole world saving thing).


Now tell me, did cloud flirt with tifa at any point in the movie? Didn't think so. I'd hope that when you have a girlfriend that you would flirt or something to show you like her. Flirting is a much bigger sign then random wolf rings or other such items that could suggest something between tifa and cloud. And if i do turn out to be wrong. Judging by how much they dont flirt, i'll give them about a year till they divorce.

Tell me, was Cloud suffering from a wasting, fatal, incurable disease during this movie? Had he not sent himself into an exile from his family in order to protect them from this and to find his penance? Yes. He did. Not quite the best mood or circumstance for flirting.
On the other hand, shortly after, in Reminiscence, in a not more than minute long phone call, Cloud and Tifa are back to actually talking and laughing with each other.


And when u say "evidence" or "proof" to back things up im assuming u meant cold hard evidence, which neither you or anyone else here can seem to give. For example. Cloud and Tifa holding hands or kissing would be cold hard proof. Their is more cold hard evidence that they arent engaged. The fact that they dont flirt, touch or do anything romantic IMO already outweighs any other evidence they are together given. IMO they are not officially together until you can prove that they are (i mean real proof), not the other way around

Do not attempt to twist the burden of proof onto me, child. I'm not the one who made a declarative statement with neither backing nor hedging.
As for evidence, try Cloud's own words. He flat out said that he intended to spend his life with Tifa by his side at the start of CoT. Not evidence that they are engaged, but worthwhile declaration of intent. Corroborated with Tifa wearing a unique and named ring which follows a naming scheme that refers to Cloud, and allowing for the idea that the creators intend for something the actually focus on a couple times in this movie to have some signifigance (plus it being on the ring finger where an engagement ring would go), and you can make a case that Cloud proposed sometime before the disease got to him.

Of course, there is also the fact that the concept of Cloud being engaged to the girl he decided to change his entire life to impress and has plainly said he wishes to spend his life with is orders of magnitude more parsimonious than the concept of Cloud eternally pining for the dead Aerith.

[Yliette]

It's also mentioned in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII) that Square's afraid to put a verdict on the Cloud-Tifa-Aeris love triangle for it might cause a massive uproar among the fans. I remember years ago that Tifa and Aeris fans had an epichal online war.

But then again, put Aeris aside in Advent Children!
1. She's dead.
2. She already has Zack (her former boyfriend) in the Lifestream to live happily ever after with!

@Ryushikaze: What's CoT again?! XD I sort of forgot.

[Ryushikaze]

Case of Tifa. A Novella written by Nojima which deals, from Tifa's point of view, about some of two year period between FF7 and AC. A link to it exists further back in this thread.

It also contains a scene which seems to imply that Cloud and Tifa share a room.

Addendum: Just for future reference- Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Never cite it. Ever.

[Kadaaju]

Tifa's a whore! x.o;;; i dislike her. that UGLY B****. -twitch- X333 im going to get hurt. -stares at all the Tifa fans then looks at the small amount of Tifa haters to support him- D: -gonna die-

[Ryushikaze]

Let's look at this piece by piece, shall we?


Tifa's a whore!

She's a bartender, an adoptive mother, and commited to a single man. What about this says whore to you? Unless, of course, you were attempting to judge her by her physical assets, which is just plain prejudiced discrimination, good sir.

Besides, a much stronger case can be made for the concept that Aerith was a prostitute (She walks the street late at night propositioning men to buy 'flowers' at what are usually exorbitant prices). I mean, that's so blatant it's GOTTA be a front for somebody.

Now then, onto the next.


x.o;;; i dislike her. that UGLY B****. -twitch-

Ugly? Good sir, you should either have your vision or your reality checked. Tifa is by no means ugly. Calling her Ugly is like calling Yuffie fat. It's not true and everyone can see so.

As for her being a 'bitch' (why censor if you've already called her a whore?), again, there is more to suggest Aerith is a bitch than Tifa (most notably the gold saucer scene where she mercilessly teases Barret, despite his obvious temper and Tifa's misgivings), so unless one is willing to consider Aerith a bitch as well, you should probably not consider Tifa one either.


X333 im going to get hurt. -stares at all the Tifa fans then looks at the small amount of Tifa haters to support him- D: -gonna die-

No, we won't hurt you, merely crush you with actual, y'know, arguments.

[Leeza]

Kadaaju: Watch your language. There is not reason to be so crude.

[PontiusPilate]

Let's look at this piece by piece, shall we?


Tifa's a whore!

She's a bartender, an adoptive mother, and commited to a single man. What about this says whore to you? Unless, of course, you were attempting to judge her by her physical assets, which is just plain prejudiced discrimination, good sir.

Besides, a much stronger case can be made for the concept that Aerith was a prostitute (She walks the street late at night propositioning men to buy 'flowers' at what are usually exorbitant prices). I mean, that's so blatant it's GOTTA be a front for somebody.

Now then, onto the next.


x.o;;; i dislike her. that UGLY B****. -twitch-

Ugly? Good sir, you should either have your vision or your reality checked. Tifa is by no means ugly. Calling her Ugly is like calling Yuffie fat. It's not true and everyone can see so.

As for her being a 'bitch' (why censor if you've already called her a whore?), again, there is more to suggest Aerith is a bitch than Tifa (most notably the gold saucer scene where she mercilessly teases Barret, despite his obvious temper and Tifa's misgivings), so unless one is willing to consider Aerith a bitch as well, you should probably not consider Tifa one either.


X333 im going to get hurt. -stares at all the Tifa fans then looks at the small amount of Tifa haters to support him- D: -gonna die-

No, we won't hurt you, merely crush you with actual, y'know, arguments.

Tifa isn't good looking, shes not effing real. You didn't crush him in anything. No one these days ever uses swear words in their proper context anyway. If i called you a [!]fu**er[/!]*snip*, it doesn't actually mean you are a person who [!]f***s[/!]*snip*. It's just used as an insult.

You don't know Tifa's commited because it hasn't been proven yet.

He's also just being immature, you don't need to go and analyze it

Do NOT go around the filters for any reason. ~ Leeza

[TheAbominatrix]

The game shows, time and time again, Tifa's commitment to Cloud. She sticks by him throughout the game and Advent Children, so her commitment is indeed proven. What's a grey area is whether or not he recpriocates it romanticly, but she clearly remains commited to him regardless. We so no evidence what so ever of her even looking at another man in 'that way', let alone pursuing one.

[PontiusPilate]

The game shows, time and time again, Tifa's commitment to Cloud. She sticks by him throughout the game and Advent Children, so her commitment is indeed proven. What's a grey area is whether or not he recpriocates it romanticly, but she clearly remains commited to him regardless. We so no evidence what so ever of her even looking at another man in 'that way', let alone pursuing one.

Not commited as in engaged. They aren't engaged and no one has proven that yet

[TheAbominatrix]

No one is saying commited as in engaged. Commited does not mean engaged. Ryu clearly wasnt using the word in that context either, as far as I can tell, and I'm pretty sure you were well aware of that to begin with.

[PontiusPilate]

No one is saying commited as in engaged. Commited does not mean engaged. Ryu clearly wasnt using the word in that context either, as far as I can tell, and I'm pretty sure you were well aware of that to begin with.

Since the topic is engagement and people use the word commited when they are engaged, i connected the dots and came to the conclusion it meant engaged.

[TheAbominatrix]

Yes, the topic is engagement. However, the comments Kadaaju made had nothing to do with engagement, so why would Ryu's reply have anything to do with engagement? He also said Tifa's commitment to Cloud, not Cloud and Tifa's commitment to eachother. You cant have an engagement with commitment only on one side. Ryu's post had nothing to do with the engagement issue.

So I think we've got that all cleared up, yeah? So lets move on :)

[Ryushikaze]

Tifa isn't good looking, shes not effing real.
I can't believe you'd actually THINK this was a real argument. You'd like to argue that despite looking exactly like a real person, Tifa cannot be 'good looking' simply because she is fictional? Excuse me while I stand here unimpressed by your words.


You didn't crush him in anything.
Never said I did. It was a promise, not a declarative.


No one these days ever uses swear words in their proper context anyway. If i called you a *snip*, it doesn't actually mean you are a person who *snip*. It's just used as an insult.
If you declare that someone is a whore, and use this as a reason for not liking them, then you must either be using one of the common definitions of whore, or your reasoning is completely and utterly lacking. While this is possible, I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was using the word with actual meaning.


You don't know Tifa's commited because it hasn't been proven yet.
Abom has dealt with this, but I'll say it again. Tifa is committed to Cloud.

I do think it is interesting to note that you allow for the word 'whore' to be used with an unfixed meaning, when its definitions are rather specific in their meanings, but insist that 'commited', which means standing by someone (I am committed to this course of action/ to my commander), and insist it means 'commitment' or 'committed to each other', when my wording suggested no such thing. Interesting double standard you've got going.


He's also just being immature, you don't need to go and analyze it
And why shouldn't I reveal mindless immaturity for what it is?

[PontiusPilate]

Tifa isn't good looking, shes not effing real.
I can't believe you'd actually THINK this was a real argument. You'd like to argue that despite looking exactly like a real person, Tifa cannot be 'good looking' simply because she is fictional? Excuse me while I stand here unimpressed by your words.


You didn't crush him in anything.
Never said I did. It was a promise, not a declarative.


He's also just being immature, you don't need to go and analyze it
And why shouldn't I reveal mindless immaturity for what it is?

Not only is she fictional, but she's animated. If i am able to obviously tell that something is animated, i am not attracted to it. I will use Lara Croft as an example.

http://www.tcmagazine.info/images/gc/news/Lara_2.jpg <-- Not attractive because she is clearly not real.

http://www.sciencefictionmuseum.org/Images/Movie%20Posters/Lara%20Croft%20Tomb%20Raider.jpg <--- Attractive because she is real

If you are one of those people who likes hentai and such... good for you and like what you want.

I'm sorry to say that you did not and will not crush him in anything.

You didn't reveal squat, it was already revealed in the first place when he posted. It's called common sense. If someone cannot tell the difference between mature and immature then they probably shouldn't be on a forum in the first place.

[Ryushikaze]

Both of the images are equally real. One happens to be a 2-D representation of someone who does not exist, the other a 2-D representation of someone who does.
Of course I never said 'attractive', I said 'good looking'. Believe it or not, there is an objective set of criteria set up, based on the average human facial recognition patterns to determine if someone is 'good looking', or not. Everyone in AC fits these criteria.

For someone who is trying to excuse someone else's choice of words, you certainly have a hang up with the ones I'm using.

I meant the mindless more than the immaturity, but this is beside the point. The point was to make an example of such posts, because the occur all too often, and to be honest, I am sick of these mindless, untrue character attacks, and people who seem to think them devastating arguments.

[Leeza]

Ryushikaze, please stop nitpicking.

[Summoner]

(I know this is a few days old, but oh well. Some posts here were made between a few days's time. I just feel like saying what I feel.)

This is one of those threads that I read after I post because I feel that I have to throw in my two cents first. Sorry if my post annoys anyone.

I think that, if he really liked Aerith/Aeris (whichever one you prefer), since she is dead, Cloud's path is clear. It's obivous that he likes Tifa, and that she likes him back. But, regardless of whether he really liked her or not, he can't quite let go of Aeris/Aerith because, even if he didn't like her, the guilt of "letting" her die is haunting him, and he feels that marrying Tifa could simply get her killed. He said in AC that he wasn't fit to help anybody, which I'm guessing means that he's not a protector, the key words being "not" and "protector". That's why I'm taking it that he's afraid he wouldn't be able to protect Tifa. So that, combined with his guilt, makes a reason, in his eyes, to not marry her. That's why they act as a family, but they both know that they're not a TRUE family. His feelings for her are shown when he thinks she's dead in his "home". He thinks he's failed again, and that his love is going to die. I haven't seen the Japanese version, but, in the English version, it sounds as if he's choking on her name. And her line "Or does that only work for REAL families" suggests that they WANT to be a family, but Cloud's just too confused to marry her. They live in the same place (even if he's not always there), and they've adopted two kids. And, as someone else here said, at the end of AC, the look that they give each other seems to suggest that, since he's no longer confused, he can do what he's been wanting to do------Start a life with Tifa. I mean, people could go around saying that they're not a couple and that they won't be, but you can't ignore the fact that they live in the same house, they've adopted two kids, and there are references to them being a a family that's lacking one thing to becoming a true family: Marriage. Cloud worries about Tifa, and she worries about him in turn. She tries to pull him through things (the "true family" reference here is her question), Cloud says that he's not fit to help anyone, etc, etc. But that's exactly what it means. He's not fit to help anyone. That's what he feels. That doesn't mean anything about him not wanting to marry her. They show every sign of a family, and every sign of a relationship that they want to have but simply can't take past friendship because Cloud is afraid of what will happen. The looks. the phrases. The living quarters. Everything points towards this.

[Analog]

Here's what I think. Remember how in the game you can choose to be on a date with tifa or areith? I think in AC it was sort of the same, because he clearly has or had feelings for areith, and at the same time there were many clues that he might or is with tifa. I think there is no correct answer to it, but to believe in whatever you feel that is correct.

[Elly]

in the original game you can also hedge the date toward either Yuffie or Barret, does that mean Cloud wants to have romantic relations with either of them?.. the Love Triangle Date Mechanic isn't even a Love Triangle at all it's just a fun little side quest/game that was never explained in any official capacity... it's funny how ppl tend to use this little mechanic to support the existance of a Love Triangle and conveniently forget that Barret and Yuffie are also options... the truth of the matter is the pairings are officialy Cloud/Tifa & Zack/Aerith, there is no Love Triangle... honestly if you play it out true to clouds nature you will end up on a date with Tifa anyway...

[SuperMillionaire]

I wonder who's gonna be at their wedding ceremony...

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Analog, this conversation fizzled over three years ago. This is abuse.