Hmm, so Shuyin is...?

[LunarWeaver]

(This whole thing reeks of Spoilers)

So, who exactly is Shuyin? He has all of Tidus's Overdrives and his likeness soo... Was Lenne one of the trapped Summoners caught in the eternal cycle of summoning, and Tidus is 'based' off her memories of him on some level? Once the summoners were set free in X, does Shuyin crawl out of the farplane or something. But I suppose he only kind of possesses people until he gets to the Farplane... So is he just a bunch of pyreflies that have gone insane. I wonder why he didn't just turn into a fiend though... Oh no, I'm quite confused ^_^ I shouldn't think about it quite so much I guess.

[Old Manus]

He's just a random guy. No more.

[LunarWeaver]

Well, that's no fun at all. Poor Shuyin, just a nobody... Ah well.

[DeathKnight]

I've always wondered if it was Tidus with a DIFFERENT dressphere...and so that's why he acted different and stuff....but that couldn't be. He could also be Tidus' ancestor of way back......and the fayth dreamed Tidus based on Shuyin. *wonders*

[BG-57]

From the gamewriters point of view, he a was a way to motivate Yuna to become a sphere hunter and run all over Spira, looking for clues about him.

From the story's perspective, his role is a little more unclear. As you mentioned his feelings of hatred and despair at his death got trapped in the Den of Woe and were perpetuated by the Pyreflies. That's why anytime he possesses someone, Pyreflies enter their body. In a sense, he's just a ghost.

It's a very Japanese conception of ghosts though. His traumatic death imprinted his negative feelings onto a place, where they have been perpetuated for a millenium by the Pyreflies. That's the sort of idea we see in movies like Dark Water or The Grudge.

As for his connection to Tidus, I agree he might have been dreamed up by the Fayth with Shuyin in mind. Surely many of the entombed Fayth knew him personally. It may partly explain how Tidus became smitten with Yuna. But I doubt he had any of Shuyin's memories.

[Renmiri]

From Ultimania guide by Square Enix: (translated by Ryu Kaze at Wikipedia Final Fantasy Project)


I had some time today to do some translating from the Final Fantasy X-2 Ultimania Omega, and I thought I'd present my translation of the information concerning Tidus and Shuyin, as many have wondered what exactly is up with those two (why they look and sound similar):


[Connection with Tidus?]
The appearance and voice of Shuyin resemble Tidus, but the two are completely different in actuality. Shuyin is a man of the past; he lived 1000 years ago in Zanarkand, the metropolis city of summoners. Tidus, a pyreform, was a resident of its summoned replica, Dream Zanarkand.

Be that as it may, Dream Zanarkand was in fact created with the idea in mind that it be the ideal [representation] of Zanarkand's existance, a wish given form. Since its existance was the model for everything in Dream Zanarkand, this extends to its inhabitants also. When thinking about this with regard to Tidus, one cannot deny the possibility that this [was the case] with his personage and Shuyin. However, most inhabitants of Dream Zanarkand would marry one another and have children, continuing the cycle of life. For this reason, the genes of the dream's inhabitants began to blend in a complicated way, and with these impurities, the duplication of [Shuyin's] personage cannot be certain. Even if it is true that Shuyin was the model for Tidus, this would not mean that their connection is close.

Basically, it doesn't tell us for sure. Personally, I doubt that Dream Zanarkand would have gone 1000 years without a Shuyin being added previously (most logically at the time it was created). With this in mind, I'd guess Tidus was probably a descendant of Dream Zanarkand's Shuyin.


That's all for the moment. I'm going to be translating the rest about Shuyin later, and I'll add it in here.

[LunarWeaver]

That's sort of the direction I was leaning. I guess they never straight up say, but one can assume he was either based off of or descended from or copy of or something like that. Now if only Tidus wore Shuyin's outfit and not just his face :choc2: Then again, suspenders are the best thing ever invented, so maybe not >_>

[Jessweeee♪]

crap...WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!...well at least this isn't the FFVIII forum, then we'd be in serious trouble.

[Venom]

Shuyin is Tidus's evil twin.

In other words He's jealous.

[FallenAngel411]

I like the idea of Tidus being based off Shuyin. Its logical, and makes X-2 seem like it has a point.

[Shaun_lawless]

naw shuyin is just an idiot who loves his hot chick lenne (who smokes) and tries to do anything to end his hatred MUWHAHAHA!!! end of the world

[Markus. D]

Shuyin and Lenne were both involved in the Summoning war.

Shuyin tried to end it by infiltrating Bevelle and Manipulating Vegnagun into being used by him, as an attempt to end it.

Lenne and Shuyin's life ended at a very solemn moment when they failed in attempt and began fleeing the Bevelle undergrounds, when Shuyin showed up at the Farplane, he showed up alone, his feeling and want to find Lenne so powerful, he Avatared himself in his original form, being problemed with his inability to not find Lenne, he decides to take it out on Spira, failing (or succeeding ;)) thanks to the Gullwings, he is United by his one and only (thanks to there plan of trying to talk to Shuyin while having Yuna wear Lenne's Songstres outfit, because Lenne's feelings were stored in it when she died).

they accept death and send eachother to the Farplane.



;\ Shaun_lawless...

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

Jesse1, don't make posts just to criticize a thread. They're welcome to make discussions such as this if they want.

[Mirage]

From the gamewriters point of view, he a was a way to motivate Yuna to become a sphere hunter and run all over Spira, looking for clues about him.

From the story's perspective, his role is a little more unclear. As you mentioned his feelings of hatred and despair at his death got trapped in the Den of Woe and were perpetuated by the Pyreflies. That's why anytime he possesses someone, Pyreflies enter their body. In a sense, he's just a ghost.

It's a very Japanese conception of ghosts though. His traumatic death imprinted his negative feelings onto a place, where they have been perpetuated for a millenium by the Pyreflies. That's the sort of idea we see in movies like Dark Water or The Grudge.

As for his connection to Tidus, I agree he might have been dreamed up by the Fayth with Shuyin in mind. Surely many of the entombed Fayth knew him personally. It may partly explain how Tidus became smitten with Yuna. But I doubt he had any of Shuyin's memories.
I like your take at this.

[Cruise Control]

Finally a chance to link to the essays I wiki'd.

http://www.eyesonff.com/members/wiki/Main/TidusAndShuyinAnAnalysis

[BG-57]

I like your take at this.

Thanks. :)

I'm actually working on a fancfiction about Tidus' experiences during FFX-2, and I'm using that as part of the premise.


Finally a chance to link to the essays I wiki'd.

http://www.eyesonff.com/members/wiki...uyinAnAnalysis

As always, Masamune∙1600's analysis is very authoritative.

[Shiny]

I always though that Shuyin was part of Tidus. Tidus is a recarnation of Shuyin. Tidus never really existed, instead he was just a dream of the fayth, because they remembered Shuyin. Shuyin, however did not die peacfully. That's why we see him in X-2. He thinks he sees Lenne, because of the dress. Lenne and Yuna also look very similar. Which leads me to believe that maybe Yuna is a recarnation. But that probably wouldn't be true considering Yuna was never in the fayth's dream world according to the two games. Tidus was in Zanarkand (the dream world) so that proves this.

[Dark Paladin]

In the game it says he's a shadow, whether that has any significance or not.

[Jessweeee♪]

Well, actually, that was a rude criticization of everyone else but the poster.

Anyways, he's just like a ghost made of pyreflies.

[Shaun_lawless]

no he's just a guy who looks like tidus mabye a sibling of tidus his mum could of had an affair with someone else thats why he looks simmalar (poor jecht) lol:p my theory anyway after tidus went to spira 1000years into the future his mum got lonely and needed a sex puppet

[LunarWeaver]

no he's just a guy who looks like tidus mabye a sibling of tidus his mum could of had an affair with someone else thats why he looks simmalar (poor jecht) lol:p my theory anyway after tidus went to spira 1000years into the future his mum got lonely and needed a sex puppet

O_O... I think I'm speechless. Except for these two sentences I just said. And these after.

BG-57's point of the Japanese idea of hatred and ghosts and haunting n' such... It's all really good, I should have made that connection before. I like his take on the situation.

[Shaun_lawless]

lol it is abit hard to understand and you might not believe but thats my theory

[Owen Macwere]

wait i got something here that'll explain it all better let's see i'll attache it if u don't mind........ i got it from ff site don't remember the name LoL
:D it is not mine but it'll help u understand more if i found anything else i'll send it to u stright away ;) promise

[Renmiri]

wait i got something here that'll explain it all better let's see i'll attache it if u don't mind........ i got it from ff site don't remember the name LoL
:D it is not mine but it'll help u understand more if i found anything else i'll send it to u stright away ;) promise
Pretty good compilation of what the FFX and FFX2 Ultimania guides and the game have. Do you know who is the author ?

[Owen Macwere]

no sorry i don't remeber where i got it from... hehe.. i travel through the internet and just save and read whatever i find
but i think it is wait... i think i remember go to
www.ffcompendium.com/h/story.shtml
then choose the ff you like and you'll see it's complete story... this site is also full of funfictions

[Renmiri]

Great link, thanks!

[Owen Macwere]

you are welcome buddy ^_^

[HolyMackeral]

The version I like goes like this. Although his emotions live on in the real world, there is a Shuyin in Dream Zanarkand, and Tidus is his descendent 1000 years later. (Perhaps Shuyin and Lenne were able to be together in Dream Zanarkand?)

[BG-57]

Except that Shuyin and Lenne were from the Real Zanarkand, which got destroyed 1000 years ago. Since the the Fayth that dreamed up Dream Zanarkand were originally the citizens of Real Zanarkand, no doubt many of them knew Lenne and Shuyin personally.

So perhaps it was inevitable that the unconscious collective memories of the Fayth created Tidus 1000 years later. Although it may have been a case of the monkeys with typewriters.

Tidus seems to have none of Shuyin's memories though, even if he is a close physical copy of him.

[Mirage]

I always though that Shuyin was part of Tidus. Tidus is a recarnation of Shuyin. Tidus never really existed, instead he was just a dream of the fayth, because they remembered Shuyin. Shuyin, however did not die peacfully. That's why we see him in X-2. He thinks he sees Lenne, because of the dress. Lenne and Yuna also look very similar. Which leads me to believe that maybe Yuna is a recarnation. But that probably wouldn't be true considering Yuna was never in the fayth's dream world according to the two games. Tidus was in Zanarkand (the dream world) so that proves this.
Tidus did exist though, in the same way as summoned Aeons exist. You could say Tidus actually is the same as an aeon, just not as powerful, and not aware of it himself (not until the end anyway). Also, Yuna didn't look similiar to Lenne. Shuyin was fooled by the dressphere, which projected Lenne's personality onto Yuna. I think that makes sense, as Shuyin was basically a ghost. I don't think ghosts are fooled by appearances, that's why he instead saw Lenne's 'spirit'.

[Renmiri]

Tidus did exist though, in the same way as summoned Aeons exist. You could say Tidus actually is the same as an aeon, just not as powerful, and not aware of it himself (not until the end anyway). Also, Yuna didn't look similiar to Lenne. Shuyin was fooled by the dressphere, which projected Lenne's personality onto Yuna. I think that makes sense, as Shuyin was basically a ghost. I don't think ghosts are fooled by appearances, that's why he instead saw Lenne's 'spirit'.

Good catch! Shuyin's being fooled by the ressemblance never really sounded too credible to me.

Agree 100%, Tidus and DZ are basically Aeons

[~SapphireStar~]

From the gamewriters point of view, he a was a way to motivate Yuna to become a sphere hunter and run all over Spira, looking for clues about him.

From the story's perspective, his role is a little more unclear. As you mentioned his feelings of hatred and despair at his death got trapped in the Den of Woe and were perpetuated by the Pyreflies. That's why anytime he possesses someone, Pyreflies enter their body. In a sense, he's just a ghost.

It's a very Japanese conception of ghosts though. His traumatic death imprinted his negative feelings onto a place, where they have been perpetuated for a millenium by the Pyreflies. That's the sort of idea we see in movies like Dark Water or The Grudge.
As for his connection to Tidus, I agree he might have been dreamed up by the Fayth with Shuyin in mind. Surely many of the entombed Fayth knew him personally. It may partly explain how Tidus became smitten with Yuna. But I doubt he had any of Shuyin's memories.

I like this also, I agree.