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Hawkeye
05-05-2006, 11:45 PM
http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/11279/Mexico_Legalizes_Drugs


MEXICO CITY - The United States reacted cautiously on Saturday to a Mexican measure that would make it legal to carry small amounts of cocaine, heroin and other drugs for personal use.

News of the decriminalization did not make the front pages of any major Mexico City newspaper, nor was it discussed in editorials. It was slightly better publicized in the north of the country, where turf wars between rival drugs gangs have caused hundreds of killings along the Mexico-U.S. border, but was still overshadowed by news about immigration.

President Vicente Fox has yet to sign the bill, which would eliminate penalties for those caught with small amounts of some drugs, but his office has applauded it.

Mexican lawmakers have said the bill will let authorities focus on major drug traffickers and not clutter prisons with small-time offenders.

Easier to prosecute violators?
U.S. Embassy spokeswoman Judith Bryan said Saturday the measure could actually make it easier to prosecute drug crimes because it attempts to “precisely specify the amount of narcotics in possession of a suspect to allow a criminal prosecution.”

“Preliminary information from Mexican legislative sources indicates that the intent of the draft legislation is to clarify the ‘small amounts’ of drugs for personal use as stated in current Mexican law,” she said.

Mexican law already left open the possibility of dropping charges against people caught with drugs if they are considered addicts and if “the amount is the quantity necessary for personal use.” The new bill drops the “addict” requirement — automatically letting any “consumers” have drugs — and sets out specific allowable quantities.

In Mexico City’s stylish Zona Rosa neighborhood, Mexicans and tourists alike were surprised to hear it could soon be legal to carry small amounts of drugs.

Mexicans at odds over law’s impact
Drug violence “will drop because there will be less pressure on the people who consume drugs,” said Francisco Garrido, who was selling orange juice at a sidewalk stall.

But Berta Perez, an antique store owner, worried that drug sales would bring young budget travelers and spook away well-heeled tourists.

If signed by Fox, purchasing drugs “would be like buying a cigarette on the street,” she said.

Washington has long praised the Fox administration for its anti-drug efforts.

Since the president took office in December 2000, several key drug lords have been captured, including Benjamin Arellano Felix, the suspected operations chief of a Tijuana-based drug gang bearing his family’s name, and Osiel Cardenas, the accused head of the Gulf cartel, thought mainly to operate along Mexico’s border with Texas.

Yet drug addiction is growing in Mexico, especially in border cities like Tijuana.

John Morgan, a retired school psychologist visiting Mexico City from Grand Junction, Colo., said it makes sense for the country to decriminalize marijuana — but that harder drugs maybe should not be included.

“We have put people in jails for years for marijuana, something that is probably less harmful than alcohol,” he said. “But the list here is a little too global, there are several classes of drugs which are quite harmful.”

dirkdirden
05-05-2006, 11:50 PM
Good Idea and Bad Idea Mixed into one.....I kind of like it.


If mexico was a smart government they would sell the Margoowana just like tobaco and make a stilling on the proffits, and then maybe mexico wouldn't be such a dump becuase of the Revenues of drugs.

~SapphireStar~
05-05-2006, 11:52 PM
John Morgan, a retired school psychologist visiting Mexico City from Grand Junction, Colo., said it makes sense for the country to decriminalize marijuana — but that harder drugs maybe should not be included.
I agree with this. Ive heard of marijuana been used for personal use, (heck my nana smoked some to stop feeling her leg pains) but harder stuff I havent heard of it being helpful.

Miriel
05-05-2006, 11:57 PM
If signed by Fox, purchasing drugs would be like buying a cigarette on the street, she said.

UCSD students must be rejoicing.

~SapphireStar~
05-05-2006, 11:57 PM
Wouldnt there be a way to abuse this idea? Its like giving in almost.

dirkdirden
05-05-2006, 11:57 PM
yeah it would be very easy to abuse.

but they really don't care. The problem is to bad to control becuase they would have to imprison well over half of mexico. So they don't waste time with the users only the dealers. Cut the problem at the root.

what I think they might do is if they find someone with drugs they will just ask were they got it and let them go. But more than likely this is just going to Backfire into there faces but we will see.

Vincent, Thunder God
05-06-2006, 12:05 AM
Personally I never liked my country (Canada) legalizing pot, so I'm not happy with Mexico legalizing any drugs.

Why? Well, I realize that there are reasons to do it. It's easier for people who are very sick and actually need these forms of drugs, as a health improvement, to get them. Also, it obviously relieves the police from a whole sh*tload of work so they can focus on other issues. And I do realize that some people are addicted to this stuff and can't get off it, so they obviously get a huge break. But my country has legalized pot, and all it's done is let under-age addicts abuse pot and let more people easily start abusing it, just like ciggarettes.

And you know what? Substance abuse is already costing a lot out of our health budget. In Canada we have free health care, and yes that's a good thing, but it still comes out of our taxes. A lot of our tax money goes straight into dealing with all this substance abuse (as a recent study will attest to).

So frankly Mexico's goverment is making a pretty foolish move! Do they want huge substance abuse costs? It's just going to go higher with legalizing!

Shoden
05-06-2006, 12:23 AM
GTA San Andreas anyone?

THis is going to turn out bad but it's a fun idea.

Elite Lord Sigma
05-06-2006, 12:26 AM
Marijuana...perhaps. Cocaine and heroin...no.

~SapphireStar~
05-06-2006, 01:11 AM
Indeed, I do having a feeling that this idea will be so abused and it will cause so many problems for them.

Rengori
05-06-2006, 01:13 AM
I thought the bill was vetoed. An article from the 29th about politics can very easily not apply anymore.

Raistlin
05-06-2006, 01:25 AM
I thought the bill was vetoed. An article from the 29th about politics can very easily not apply anymore.
Yeah, the bill passed the Mexican legislature, but Fox didn't sign it. He sent it back to the legislature for changes, saying that the drugs will never be legalized.

Vincent, Thunder God
05-06-2006, 01:35 AM
I thought the bill was vetoed. An article from the 29th about politics can very easily not apply anymore.
Yeah, the bill passed the Mexican legislature, but Fox didn't sign it. He sent it back to the legislature for changes, saying that the drugs will never be legalized.

That's a good sign.

Raistlin
05-06-2006, 01:46 AM
I thought the bill was vetoed. An article from the 29th about politics can very easily not apply anymore.
Yeah, the bill passed the Mexican legislature, but Fox didn't sign it. He sent it back to the legislature for changes, saying that the drugs will never be legalized.

That's a good sign.
<a href="http://hammeroftruth.com/2006/05/03/vincente-fox-denied-use-of-his-own-cojones-by-the-us/">Not really.</a>

Zell's Fists of Fury
05-06-2006, 02:02 AM
The marijuana part I applaud. I'm a little hesitant on the rest.

If they really want something like this, I say they push for Marijuana only. There's alot of middle ground with weed and it is possible for it to be legalized, still. But adding herion and cocaine to the bill is like asking for an automatic veto.

I hope marijuana get legalized there. It might change some minds here if it works out, and I think it will.

And again, I'd like to state that I don't really smoke weed. I just think it's retarded that it's illegal.

Rengori
05-06-2006, 02:03 AM
Imagine how many people would go back to/to Mexico if Marijauna was legalized there.

Vincent, Thunder God
05-06-2006, 02:24 AM
I thought the bill was vetoed. An article from the 29th about politics can very easily not apply anymore.
Yeah, the bill passed the Mexican legislature, but Fox didn't sign it. He sent it back to the legislature for changes, saying that the drugs will never be legalized.

That's a good sign.
<a href="http://hammeroftruth.com/2006/05/03/vincente-fox-denied-use-of-his-own-cojones-by-the-us/">Not really.</a>

Well it depends which side of the argument one is on. Personally I don't want legalization of any drugs, as one can see from my first post.

black orb
05-06-2006, 02:34 AM
>>> Viva mexico ?!..:D

Itsunari 2000
05-06-2006, 02:38 AM
Mexico can burn for all I care - it's a /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gifty, rundown cabal of irredeemably corrupt politicians, sleazy lowlifes and greedy sluts that inhabit a soul destroying prelude to the hell of drugs and violent insurgency of South America. A miserable country.

Zell's Fists of Fury
05-06-2006, 02:39 AM
]

Well it depends which side of the argument one is on. Personally I don't want legalization of any drugs, as one can see from my first post.


And you didn't really offer any valid point as to why it should be kept illegal. So that people don't abuse it? Hello, people already do. It's not hard to obtain at all. I know about five people I could get weed from, GOOD weed, and I don't even 'hang' with that crowd.

Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean you have to go and ruin everyone else's fun.

And on the health care topic, if you don't like people mooching off the system, you should start banning homeless people too. Marijuana doesn't affect your health THAT much. You can't overdose on it. So yeah.

And to the guy above me, you've never been to Rocky Point, I take it.

Vincent, Thunder God
05-06-2006, 02:48 AM
And you didn't really offer any valid point as to why it should be kept illegal. So that people don't abuse it? Hello, people already do. It's not hard to obtain at all. I know about five people I could get weed from, GOOD weed, and I don't even 'hang' with that crowd.

Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean you have to go and ruin everyone else's fun.

And on the health care topic, if you don't like people mooching off the system, you should start banning homeless people too. Marijuana doesn't affect your health THAT much. You can't overdose on it. So yeah.

Well yes, people already abuse it. Obviously. But why bother to make it legal? That will definetly increase usage of it. And new users will have easier access to it.

And it is possible to overdose, but it takes an astronomically large amount.

Rengori
05-06-2006, 02:55 AM
And it is possible to overdose, but it takes an astronomically large amount.
I doubt in an hour, let alone the proposed 15 minutes, you'd be able to smoke the overdose amount of weed. And even if you could, within about 5 minutes you'd be too doped to smoke that fast anyway.

Vincent, Thunder God
05-06-2006, 02:58 AM
And it is possible to overdose, but it takes an astronomically large amount.
I doubt in an hour, let alone the proposed 15 minutes, you'd be able to smoke the overdose amount of weed. And even if you could, within about 5 minutes you'd be too doped to smoke that fast anyway.

Well yes, that was my point. I was just specifying that it is techncially possible, though ridiculously unlikely.

But on the other hand, Spaceman Spiff, if you think there aren't many negative effects of marijuana, read this. Yes, overdosing is impossible, but there are a whole lot of other effects. Nobody can discount the facts, though people have tried for a long time. http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html

Go straight to effects if you are skimming.

Zeromus_X
05-06-2006, 04:17 AM
Cool, I guess. :cat:

Ramza Beoulve
05-06-2006, 05:07 AM
Hey, i'm the mexican guy here n.nU, remember? but actually, the goberment tries to destroy the low drugs market, because here the narcs try to sell you low amounts of it, and actually, the low market is around the half the money the narcs get from the people here, but the wrong point are the amounts that will be legal. they aren't in the "addiction level", but the amounts can take the person to want more, taking them to the greater markets, making it dangerous. Actually, I disagree with our goverment in nearly everything, because everything they do is to take money from us (we pay for having a car, and we pay for having a property)

Yamaneko
05-06-2006, 06:57 AM
People don't need cocaine, heroin or other "hard" narcotics. Those are lifestyle-changing drugs, whether you want to or not.

Ramza Beoulve
05-06-2006, 07:34 AM
People don't need cocaine, heroin or other "hard" narcotics. Those are lifestyle-changing drugs, whether you want to or not.

Gramps Yams knows best

nik0tine
05-06-2006, 08:48 AM
This is the best thing to happen to North America in a long time.

Zell's Fists of Fury
05-06-2006, 09:27 AM
But on the other hand, Spaceman Spiff, if you think there aren't many negative effects of marijuana, read this. Yes, overdosing is impossible, but there are a whole lot of other effects. Nobody can discount the facts, though people have tried for a long time. http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html

Go straight to effects if you are skimming.
Oh no it makes you sick. Stop the presses.

Smoking and alcohol affect you negatively too. Why aren't you picketing to get those banned if you're so concerned with people's health?

escobert
05-06-2006, 09:27 AM
Well yes, people already abuse it. Obviously. But why bother to make it legal? That will definetly increase usage of it. And new users will have easier access to it.[/QUOTE]
how will there be easyier access!? It's EVERYWHERE! there already IS easy aaccess to it. It would lessin the amouth of people getting arrested and free up jail space. Also frre up cops from arresting stoners. Alcohol and taboco both have just as worse or worse side effects and are legal :p

Zell's Fists of Fury
05-06-2006, 09:32 AM
Yes, like I said, I don't regularly smoke, and don't hang out with that crowd, but I know of many people who could get me weed. If I wanted to, I could go smoke out right now. It just ignorant to think that people aren't already using it as if it's legal anyway.

Alive-Cat
05-06-2006, 11:40 AM
Well, I believe that people should have freedom, and if they want to abuse those drugs, they'll eventually die, and if they want to be sensible with those drugs, they can, and they'll probably be fine. I think people should be able to make their own decisions.
Thankyou and goodnight! :sing:

Raistlin
05-06-2006, 03:14 PM
Well yes, people already abuse it. Obviously. But why bother to make it legal? That will definetly increase usage of it. And new users will have easier access to it.
So what? Why should the government be able to say "you can't do this to yourself?"

Vincent, Thunder God
05-06-2006, 10:10 PM
Well yes, people already abuse it. Obviously. But why bother to make it legal? That will definetly increase usage of it. And new users will have easier access to it.
So what? Why should the government be able to say "you can't do this to yourself?"

They're not saying "you can't do this to yourself," they're saying you can do it but it's illegal and it goes against common sense. You get a short period of highness for a whole other sh*tload of side effects. The government isn't trying to be some imaginary thought control government like Orwell's 1984. It's trying to protect health.

Furtheremore, Spaceman Spiff, yes I realize that other drugs are out there and that they're free. I dislike them just as much, but at least pot can be a little less acessable if it's illegal. At least there is a consequence to taking it. Like I said before, this substance abuse doesn't just affect those who take it, in my country it wastes a lot of money while us Canadians pay for health care out of our taxes. Money that could be going to cancer research is being poured into health care for abusers of drugs. Other countries are wasting just as much on it.

And besides, if you don't smoke regularly why go to all the trouble to defend pot? It has bad side effects, costs the government money (and then consequently lets less money go to more important things), and legalizing it does make it significantly easier to access (despite that you continue to try to feebly discount that fact.)

Dreddz
05-06-2006, 10:15 PM
At least theres now a reason to go to Mexico.

escobert
05-06-2006, 10:19 PM
Well yes, people already abuse it. Obviously. But why bother to make it legal? That will definetly increase usage of it. And new users will have easier access to it.
So what? Why should the government be able to say "you can't do this to yourself?"

They're not saying "you can't do this to yourself," they're saying you can do it but it's illegal and it goes against common sense. You get a short period of highness for a whole other sh*tload of side effects. The government isn't trying to be some imaginary thought control government like Orwell's 1984. It's trying to protect health.

Furtheremore, Spaceman Spiff, yes I realize that other drugs are out there and that they're free. I dislike them just as much, but at least pot can be a little less acessable if it's illegal. At least there is a consequence to taking it. Like I said before, this substance abuse doesn't just affect those who take it, in my country it wastes a lot of money while us Canadians pay for health care out of our taxes. Money that could be going to cancer research is being poured into health care for abusers of drugs. Other countries are wasting just as much on it.

And besides, if you don't smoke regularly why go to all the trouble to defend pot? It has bad side effects, costs the government money (and then consequently lets less money go to more important things), and legalizing it does make it significantly easier to access (despite that you continue to try to feebly discount that fact.)
did you just not read my post or something? Alcohol and tabacco both have side effects but are legal. why are they so much better then pot or shroom? Which are both natrually grown.

nik0tine
05-06-2006, 10:36 PM
The government isn't trying to be some imaginary thought control government like Orwell's 1984. It's trying to protect health.And that's wrong.


Furtheremore, Spaceman Spiff, yes I realize that other drugs are out there and that they're free. I dislike them just as much, but at least pot can be a little less acessable if it's illegal.I don't think it will make a whole lot of difference either way.


Like I said before, this substance abuse doesn't just affect those who take it, in my country it wastes a lot of money while us Canadians pay for health care out of our taxes. Money that could be going to cancer research is being poured into health care for abusers of drugs. Other countries are wasting just as much on it.My country wastes billions of dollars fighting a ridiculously immoral drug war. If money is what you're concerned with then you're on the wrong side of this debate.


And besides, if you don't smoke regularly why go to all the trouble to defend pot? We're not defending pot, we're defending freedom. I can defend pot in a different thread.


It has bad side effectsIt's side effects are no worse than McDonalds' side effects.


costs the government money (and then consequently lets less money go to more important things)But you're wrong. If drugs were legal the government would be spending a whole hell of a lot less money. My government would save billions every year on the drug war, and it would save a ton of money by not throwing people in jail who have done nothing wrong. Plus, the government would be able to tax the drugs and actually make money.


and legalizing it does make it significantly easier to access (despite that you continue to try to feebly discount that fact.)If drugs were legal people would have access to safe drugs. Right now people buy drugs from unsafe, shady people. You don't know what you are getting. If, however, drugs were legal, we could simply buy them at the pharmacy and we'd be 100% certain that we were getting clean, safe drugs. Our marijuana would never be laced, we would never be buying rat poison, etc. etc.

The most important thing, however, is that it will reduce crime. People get murdered because drugs are illegal. If drugs were legal, nobody would buy unsafe drugs from unsafe people (ie, gangs) and they would instead buy them from safe places like pharmacies. Gangs will lose all of their drug related revenue and they will be severely financially handicapped.

There is absolutely no reason not to legalize drugs.

Vincent, Thunder God
05-07-2006, 04:39 AM
The government isn't trying to be some imaginary thought control government like Orwell's 1984. It's trying to protect health.And that's wrong.


Furtheremore, Spaceman Spiff, yes I realize that other drugs are out there and that they're free. I dislike them just as much, but at least pot can be a little less acessable if it's illegal.I don't think it will make a whole lot of difference either way.


Like I said before, this substance abuse doesn't just affect those who take it, in my country it wastes a lot of money while us Canadians pay for health care out of our taxes. Money that could be going to cancer research is being poured into health care for abusers of drugs. Other countries are wasting just as much on it.My country wastes billions of dollars fighting a ridiculously immoral drug war. If money is what you're concerned with then you're on the wrong side of this debate.


And besides, if you don't smoke regularly why go to all the trouble to defend pot? We're not defending pot, we're defending freedom. I can defend pot in a different thread.


It has bad side effectsIt's side effects are no worse than McDonalds' side effects.


costs the government money (and then consequently lets less money go to more important things)But you're wrong. If drugs were legal the government would be spending a whole hell of a lot less money. My government would save billions every year on the drug war, and it would save a ton of money by not throwing people in jail who have done nothing wrong. Plus, the government would be able to tax the drugs and actually make money.


and legalizing it does make it significantly easier to access (despite that you continue to try to feebly discount that fact.)If drugs were legal people would have access to safe drugs. Right now people buy drugs from unsafe, shady people. You don't know what you are getting. If, however, drugs were legal, we could simply buy them at the pharmacy and we'd be 100% certain that we were getting clean, safe drugs. Our marijuana would never be laced, we would never be buying rat poison, etc. etc.

The most important thing, however, is that it will reduce crime. People get murdered because drugs are illegal. If drugs were legal, nobody would buy unsafe drugs from unsafe people (ie, gangs) and they would instead buy them from safe places like pharmacies. Gangs will lose all of their drug related revenue and they will be severely financially handicapped.

There is absolutely no reason not to legalize drugs.

I suppose you have made some good points here. Some of that information I had not yet fully thought of.

But you're first repsonse... how is it wrong to protect health? And don't you give me that "freedom" bull, you and I both know that sometimes people with the actual knowlege, like a government, can make better decisions then people with a death wish, abusing drugs.

And as for your second reponse, just because I'm concerned about my government being able to use my tax dollars effectively doesn't mean I'm in the wrong debate. We're debating about whether or not drugs should be legalized. I thought that was obvious.

And with your third point, yes, freedom is extremely important. But if humanity has no commen sense restrictions placed on it it will be over-run with corruption. We already know that from observing our history.

In your fourth point, you state that McDonald's health risks are no worse than pot's. I will not argue that McDonald's is highly caustic and a large health risk. But I would rather (in theory) eat high-calorie food than lose my brain cells to pot!

Otherwise your other points have given me a different perspective, and I appreciate that.

But to say that there are no bad effects to legalizing drugs... that is far from the truth.

nik0tine
05-07-2006, 02:29 PM
But you're first repsonse... how is it wrong to protect health? And don't you give me that "freedom" bull, you and I both know that sometimes people with the actual knowlege, like a government, can make better decisions then people with a death wish, abusing drugs.Sorry, but I'm going to give you that "freedom bull" because it's the truth. A government may be able to make a better decision, but it's my decision, not theirs. Besides, 'better' is subjective and it isn't right to force your subjective views on someone else.


Otherwise your other points have given me a different perspective, and I appreciate that. Thanks.

fire_of_avalon
05-07-2006, 02:58 PM
You can't make sweeping statements suggesting it's wrong for governments to protect public health. If governments had no laws concerning public health... I mean do I really need to give examples? But this is just me nitpicking.

I think it's really stupid to legalize highly addictive drugs that druglords are still going to produce anyway, and kill people over anyway. It's stupid to legalize marijuana too, because it doesn't make economic sense. If marijuana was legal, nobody would go to a pharmacy and buy it at outrageously inflated prices. They'd grow it and smoke it. It isn't like tobacco, which is hard to produce on one's own and necessitates a manufactural intermediary.

Outside of that regard, however, I'm actually pretty pro-legalizing marijuana. I think, however, it should be on legal par with alcohol and tobacco, being legal only for adults, and I feel that doing stupid things while stoned, like driving, should come under the same consequences as drunk driving.

And before anyone says anything, don't try to tell me that it's safer to drive while stoned as opposed as to driving while drunk, because that is complete crap.

NeoCracker
05-07-2006, 03:13 PM
The government isn't trying to be some imaginary thought control government like Orwell's 1984. It's trying to protect health.And that's wrong.


Furtheremore, Spaceman Spiff, yes I realize that other drugs are out there and that they're free. I dislike them just as much, but at least pot can be a little less acessable if it's illegal.I don't think it will make a whole lot of difference either way.


Like I said before, this substance abuse doesn't just affect those who take it, in my country it wastes a lot of money while us Canadians pay for health care out of our taxes. Money that could be going to cancer research is being poured into health care for abusers of drugs. Other countries are wasting just as much on it.My country wastes billions of dollars fighting a ridiculously immoral drug war. If money is what you're concerned with then you're on the wrong side of this debate.


And besides, if you don't smoke regularly why go to all the trouble to defend pot? We're not defending pot, we're defending freedom. I can defend pot in a different thread.


It has bad side effectsIt's side effects are no worse than McDonalds' side effects.


costs the government money (and then consequently lets less money go to more important things)But you're wrong. If drugs were legal the government would be spending a whole hell of a lot less money. My government would save billions every year on the drug war, and it would save a ton of money by not throwing people in jail who have done nothing wrong. Plus, the government would be able to tax the drugs and actually make money.


and legalizing it does make it significantly easier to access (despite that you continue to try to feebly discount that fact.)If drugs were legal people would have access to safe drugs. Right now people buy drugs from unsafe, shady people. You don't know what you are getting. If, however, drugs were legal, we could simply buy them at the pharmacy and we'd be 100% certain that we were getting clean, safe drugs. Our marijuana would never be laced, we would never be buying rat poison, etc. etc.

The most important thing, however, is that it will reduce crime. People get murdered because drugs are illegal. If drugs were legal, nobody would buy unsafe drugs from unsafe people (ie, gangs) and they would instead buy them from safe places like pharmacies. Gangs will lose all of their drug related revenue and they will be severely financially handicapped.

There is absolutely no reason not to legalize drugs.
Aside from the Mcdonalds comment being an exageration, this sounds right.

Raistlin
05-07-2006, 03:38 PM
You can't make sweeping statements suggesting it's wrong for governments to protect public health. If governments had no laws concerning public health... I mean do I really need to give examples? But this is just me nitpicking.
It's not "public health." "Public health" is am imaginary concept that doesn't actually exist. The only question is: should the government be allowed to dictate to an individual person what he can and cannot do with his own body, when it directly harms no one but himself?


I think it's really stupid to legalize highly addictive drugs that druglords are still going to produce anyway, and kill people over anyway.
There will be less killing if it wasn't stuck in the black market.


It's stupid to legalize marijuana too, because it doesn't make economic sense. If marijuana was legal, nobody would go to a pharmacy and buy it at outrageously inflated prices. They'd grow it and smoke it. It isn't like tobacco, which is hard to produce on one's own and necessitates a manufactural intermediary.
So, in order for things to be legal... it has to help the government? Whatever happened to individual rights?

I see you're pro-legalization, but I disagree with the age restrictions. The government shouldn't raise kids for the parents. If the parents say a kid can have some alcohol when he's 17 or 18, why should the government be able to say "that's illegal because the kid's too young?" Again, why should the government be able to say what an individual (young or old) does with his own body is wrong?

Loony BoB
05-07-2006, 03:59 PM
Drugs disgust me, so I think this is a bad idea. You should never take mind-altering drugs without a good medical reason.

EDIT: In reply to Raist's post above, there are a lot of parents that are just plain stupid and frankly unworthy of being parents, and as far as I'm concerned I'd rather the government make that kind of decision for them. Alcohol, drugs, sex, etc. should be controlled where possible for the sake of those without intelligent parents who know what's best for their children.

fire_of_avalon
05-07-2006, 04:32 PM
There will not be less of a black market just because something is legalized. If heroin were legalized and made pharmaceutically available, people wouldn't go to the pharmacy to get it because it would be expensive. Drug dealers would minimally lower their prices, or obtain cheaper, deadlier heroin, and the same junkies would go to the same dealers for their fix. As a result there would be remain no regulation of it.

Besides, another important aspect of legalization of anything is putting it into the control of the government, letting them regulate who, what, how much, when and why. They do that already, just to a much stricter degree.

And that commentary about economic reasons behind keeping it illegal wasn't an argument on whether or not it should be legal, it was just a reason why it isn't legal.

And I said that if it were legalized, it should be made available only to adults. If said adults chose to give their older teen a hit, it would be akin to adults giving their older teen a glass of wine with a fancy meal. Also, I'm speaking in the context of what should define an adult; 18+ not 21+. The drinking age should be lowered, imo, but that is another debate.

Also, I agree with BoB on the whole parent thing. Yeah uh huh!

Shaun
05-07-2006, 05:07 PM
Very stupid.

themagicroundabout
05-07-2006, 06:40 PM
People will smoke weed whether it is legal or not, but if it was legalised people wouldn't get in trouble for it. So it's a good thing. :bgl::up:

I am basically of the same opinion as Spiff, nik and and El Bertio.

:bgl::up:

Yamaneko
05-07-2006, 06:55 PM
Apparently the government is only good for taxing and starting wars. The government does (theoretically) what the citizens want it to do. So if we vote government officials into office because they will look after public health by not legalizing narcotics, then the government can do that. Sorry, but there are a lot of people in this country who do not wish for hard drugs to become legal, and I'm one of those people, to a certain extent. Read my previous post.

Itsunari 2000
05-07-2006, 07:00 PM
How many of you actually give a damn about this ? Seriously. How is this relevant to your everyday lives AT ALL ?

NeoCracker
05-07-2006, 07:01 PM
Well, really most things on this site are completely irrelevant to our everyday lives, but that doesn't stop us from posting.

Vincent, Thunder God
05-07-2006, 08:15 PM
How many of you actually give a damn about this ? Seriously. How is this relevant to your everyday lives AT ALL ?

I find it very important. Whether or not it directly effects me is besides the point. It's actually quite a major issue for Mexico, and perhaps for the world, in moral terms. So the fact that people want to debate it is actually not very suprising, because it does indirectly involve us due to our opinions on the issue.

Roto13
05-07-2006, 08:30 PM
Drugs disgust me, so I think this is a bad idea. You should never take mind-altering drugs without a good medical reason.

EDIT: In reply to Raist's post above, there are a lot of parents that are just plain stupid and frankly unworthy of being parents, and as far as I'm concerned I'd rather the government make that kind of decision for them. Alcohol, drugs, sex, etc. should be controlled where possible for the sake of those without intelligent parents who know what's best for their children.

Yeah, I'm with BoB. Except the sex thing. That's more of an education thing than a control thing.

Anyway, that doesn't have anything to do with drug legalization, so there's no need to discuss it.

Ramza Beoulve
05-07-2006, 10:23 PM
How many of you actually give a damn about this ? Seriously. How is this relevant to your everyday lives AT ALL ?
. ME!!!! I'M MEXICAN!!!! :mad2: AND THIS PROBLEM IS A DIARY CONFLICT HERE YOU KNOW

Zell's Fists of Fury
05-08-2006, 12:36 AM
A dairy conflict?

nik0tine
05-08-2006, 12:57 AM
There will not be less of a black market just because something is legalized. If heroin were legalized and made pharmaceutically available, people wouldn't go to the pharmacy to get it because it would be expensive. Drug dealers would minimally lower their prices, or obtain cheaper, deadlier heroin, and the same junkies would go to the same dealers for their fix. As a result there would be remain no regulation of it.If this is true then at least the government will provide people with an option to use their safe drugs. Right now a drug user cannot be safe or responsible when it comes to buying drugs even if they want to. If it was sold at the pharmacy at least people would have the option to be responsible.

But if the government was really smart it would subsidize the pharmacies so they could sell the drugs at a loss, ensuring that drug lords will go out of business. Once they are, then they stop subsidizing the pharmacies and drugs can be sold for a profit.


How many of you actually give a damn about this ? Seriously. How is this relevant to your everyday lives AT ALL ?Why does it have to be relevant to our every day lives? Back in the 40's millions of jews were getting gassed and it wasn't a part of any americans every day life, but they still cared, and for damn good reason. The point I'm trying to make is that you can care about something even if it doesn't immediately effect you.


. ME!!!! I'M MEXICAN!!!! AND THIS PROBLEM IS A DIARY CONFLICT HERE YOU KNOWwtf?

GhandiOwnsYou
05-08-2006, 01:09 AM
I'm assuming he meant Dire. Or, maybe Milk is an adjective meaning "really important" in mexico... *shrug*

Anyway, The Governement being allowed to protect health is comeplete crap. If the Government were trying to protect our health, there would be no smoking, no drinking, mandatory physicals and/or excercise regimes, fast food places would be shut down and chocolate would have a national cap at 1 bar per week per person. it's horse crap.

The reason the Govt. wants to keep drugs illegal is not because of health benefits, it's because they are worried about support for the illegal endeavors in other countries. If we legalized marijuana right now, they major source would not be Phillip Morris. It would be some guy that has a nice little forest growing that has been selling illegally for years anyway. same with cocaine, heroin, meth, ecstacy, anything else. nobody is going to pay the high prices that phillip morris or budweiser would charge for their stock, they'd go to the same dealer they go to now, get his cheap /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif, and assuming there was some licensed dealer law in effect, tell the cops they got it from rite-Aid if they were asked.

In this way, current criminals would become millionares and be able to traffic much more safely, and the govt. would recieve zero tax money from it, because everyone would still buy from Heroin Bob on the corner downtown

and to answer "then why are tobacco and alcohol legal?" it's nice n simple. they are harder to make, especially in large batches. the curing process for tobacco nowadays is far more complicated than for say, marijuana. you can grow some pot in your closet, but the time and effort it would take to grow tobacco would make it pointless. it's cheaper and easier to go to 7-11 and buy some Malboros. same with alcohol. Not so much with weed and certain other drugs. you can krank out your own personal stock in no time to sell and/or use, jipping america out of tax money.

Evastio
05-08-2006, 01:47 AM
So you mean you people are okay if I'm surrounded by druggies? You wouldn't want to be surrounded by druggies would you? So why do you want me to be surrounded by marijuana users?

Roto13
05-08-2006, 01:56 AM
How's about we dump all the stoners on an island somewhere and let them go about their business while the rest of us get on with our lives.

Ramza Beoulve
05-08-2006, 03:53 AM
:mad2: I will need anger control after this...

Here is really a common conflict, a conflict of every day (sorry if I smurf it with diary, english is not my language) every day appears around four or five dead persons because the drugs, and all of them because the low market, thats the reason the drugs conflict is extremely important here, but you know, I don't really agree with this law.

bipper
05-08-2006, 03:56 AM
This makes me uncomfortable. Now we really ne border patrol...:p
Bipper

-N-
05-08-2006, 04:35 AM
How many of you actually give a damn about this ? Seriously. How is this relevant to your everyday lives AT ALL ?Dude, Mexicans use these forums too, man. >_<

nik0tine
05-08-2006, 04:55 AM
How many of you actually give a damn about this ? Seriously. How is this relevant to your everyday lives AT ALL ?Dude, Mexicans use these forums too, man. >_<
Yeah! Don't forget about Perola! :mad2:

Zell's Fists of Fury
05-08-2006, 04:58 AM
So you mean you people are okay if I'm surrounded by druggies? You wouldn't want to be surrounded by druggies would you? So why do you want me to be surrounded by marijuana users?
Hah. I'll bet you would be floored by how many people you know smoke pot.

I think it's great how you people think that America is clean and drug-free.

nik0tine
05-08-2006, 05:04 AM
So you mean you people are okay if I'm surrounded by druggies? You wouldn't want to be surrounded by druggies would you? So why do you want me to be surrounded by marijuana users?
Hah. I'll bet you would be floored by how many people you know smoke pot.

I think it's great how you people think that America is clean and drug-free.
It's really kinda cute, actually.

Hawkeye
05-08-2006, 05:04 AM
How many of you actually give a damn about this ? Seriously. How is this relevant to your everyday lives AT ALL ?Dude, Mexicans use these forums too, man. >_<
Yeah! Don't forget about Perola! :mad2:
I'm your best friend you jackass and you don't know my ethnicity? :mad2:

bipper
05-08-2006, 05:05 AM
Well, it depends on the drug spiff. If everyone I know did meth and acid, then I would be shocked. Pot - whatever. Its a panzie hippy drug. It looks like other drugs are in the consideration, and when I consider how many illegal immagrants we get comming accross the souther border, I would not even want to immagine how many will bring drugs to get a little starting out money.

The drugs are one bad thing, but look at the drug industry. America spent a lot of time under the oppresion of the mob - hell, if the video game industry was run the same way, i would ban games. Its not just the effects off the drugs and what they do to people, it is also the presence of the drug lords that would frighten the /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif outta me.

Bipper

nik0tine
05-08-2006, 05:06 AM
But if drugs were legal the mobs would not sell drugs because they would not profit from drugs. The reason that drugs are such a problem is because drugs are illegal.

bipper
05-08-2006, 05:31 AM
Who knows what would happen if they legalized drugs - either way - they are illegal and I don't want the mexicans running over the border and bringing em here. :)

FallenAngel411
05-08-2006, 05:54 AM
Less people would probably be tempted to mess around with them if they were legal. The idea that its wrong is what's appealing.

Ramza Beoulve
05-08-2006, 06:01 AM
Less people would probably be tempted to mess around with them if they were legal. The idea that its wrong is what's appealing.
Yeah, thats true, but sadly we need to wait to see what happens to us.

bipper
05-08-2006, 06:27 AM
Less people would probably be tempted to mess around with them if they were legal. The idea that its wrong is what's appealing.

works so well with smoking. It was once bad, and now its legal - so that makes it cool and safe.. that is the logic i forsee.

bipper