The Truth about Seifer

[Viator]

Many people argue is Seifer act on his decesion or Ultimecia possessed/play trick on his mind?The truth is Ultimecia never did that.Seifer act on his decision.If Ultimecia can do that why she dont do that to Squall and Co(i.e when they in D-DIstrict Prison).What Seifer did is not wrong or right.In war there`s no good or bad side just two sides holding different views.He maybe realised that what he did is wrong but he is Sorceress Knight after all,he must protect his sorceress(one of the code of Sorceress Knight).But eventually he realised that he is only a puppet,a helpless puppet.It looks like her sorceress betrayed him.
PS:I have read a wonderfull fanfiction about Seifer by Darren "Edge" Shier here it is:

And that is it, really. From Edea's point of view. To this day, nobody has a clue what went on
in Merris's home that fateful night. Merris had not been depressed about the child. She was just
confused and distressed. There were'nt that many virile men in Alanga. And she had slept with
none of them. Was this a virgin birth? Or could she simply not remember? She should remember
something like that. In any case, the birth passed with a surprising minimum of pain. The midwife
who was named Legatia, was very superstitous. She had lit a fire, but the room became very cold
after the child had been born. Suddenly, the fire went out.
"What is this?" asked Merris.
But Legatia begen to chant in the old language.
"Liberati Mei." she said, feeling a presence fill into the room. "Liberati Mei Infernus."
"Words." a terrifying voice came from nowhere. "Words are just fantasy. This is reality. Words
kannot help you."
At this, a symbol of fire ignited in the floor. Two equilateral triangles that
overlapped, sort of similar to the Star Of David, but this symbol had a goats head inside it. The
kind that that satanists often used. The fire began to burn higher and higher, hotter and hotter,
beginning to take on a human shape, until there was someone standing there, as the flames died
down. She was a Sorceress. Dressed in red, with a pair of dark wings that trailed behind her. The
wings looked like those of a crow, not an Angel. She had long silver hair that came all the way
down to the ground. She was truely the most terrifying sight that Merris or Legatia had ever
seen. Her eyes blazed with the colour of gold, and her eyes had all the seeming of a demon's that
is dreaming. She looked at the humans with utter contempt.
Contempt for humanity.
Contempt for life.
"W-who are you?" asked Merris.
The Sorceress smiled evilly with fangs of diamond. "The wind that howls in the night." she said.
"The monster under your bed that makkes you wet your sheets. Some kall me a witch. Some kall me
a demon. Some say i have made a pact with the devil. Some say i AM the devil. Thay are all
right. My name is Ultimecia."
"What do you want of us?" pleaded Merris.
"My Soothsayers have given me a prophecy." announced Ultimecia. "They klaim that the one who will
destroy me was born in this time. The tell me of dreams. Dreams of a lion. Sure enough, he is
being conceived as I speak. So...i need a knight. A rival for the lion. One who is strong enough
to face him. Strong enough to defeat him."
Merris realised Ultimecia was talking about her baby. "S-Seifer?".
"I won't lie." said Ultimecia "I played a part in his kreation. Bring him here."
The women watched in horror as Seifer levitated off the bed and floated into Ultimecia's arms.
She cackled like a witch, caressing his head with her fingers. Then they realised that she did'nt
have fingers. They were talons, twice as long as a human's fingers and razor-sharp.
Legatia advanced on her, brandishing the symbol of Holy. Ultimecia turned her head and stared at
Legatia, who froze on the spot. Ultimecia did'nt seem to be looking at her. She was looking INTO
her, looking right into her soul. The symbol of Holy crumbled to dust under the might of the
Sorceress's gaze. Her eyes were not just yellow anymore, they were glowing, like halogen lamps,
burning bright, so bright that Merris, who had turned her head away, screamed at the blinding
light. Ultimecia continued to pierce Legatia's soul with her eyes.
"Die." commanded Ultimecia simply. It was not a threat, not a request, not an order. And Legatia
fell to the floor, dead before she hit the ground. "Seifer is going to be my knight." cackled
Ultimecia. "Are'nt you, Seifer? I'm going to make sure you grow up big and strong. The mightiest
soldier there ever was. With my silent guidance, you will be the greatest."
"Seifer will never be a soldier!" defied Merris. "I'm going to raise him as a poet, or a
farmer."
"I am afraid that your part in Seifer's life is over." announced Ultimecia.
She held Seifer in hers arms as Merris ran right at her. Holding Seifer in one hand,
Ultimecia grabbed Merris by the throat with the other. She lifted Merris up into the air.
"You worthless creature" she hissed. "I give you, a pathetic human, the honor of
birthing my knight, and you have the gall to think that you can take him away from me? ME?!!?
He would not even exist without me!!!!!"
Her eyes began to burn again. "Your life is over." she commanded. "You serve no more purpose in
Seifer's life. Go into the bathroom, lock the door, and drown yourself."
Merris complied, without a nerve of resistance. As the door locked and came the sound of running
water, Ultimecia cackled, cradling Seifer, who gurgled innocently.
"Innocent, i see." growled Ultimecia. "That can be remedied. I will see to it that you will love
the sound of battle. You will relish the smell of your enemies blood. You will not acknowledge
other mortals as your equals. And Death will be your travelling companion, following you wherever
you go.
The one of this time. Edea. She has a great many part to play in my plans yet. She will
take you back there. To that place. The place where the lion will be. You and him will grow as
parallells, but you will be stronger. And you will be given his abilities. I shall see to it
that you will have all the training, abilities and knowledge of a SeeD. But, by the Demons,
i will never allow you to join the disease that is SeeD. Never.
You will stand by my throne one day and i will watch as you defeat the lion. It is your destiny."

The baby gurgled with glee. Indeed, the future was bright for Seifer Almasy....

[Qurange]

I'm not going to comment on the fanfic, but in the Ultimania, at least--Selphie's final diary entry--it implied that Seifer was not in his right mind during the course of the game fairly heavily, so I'd tend to go with that.

[~SapphireStar~]

I'm not going to comment on the fanfic, but in the Ultimania, at least--Selphie's final diary entry--it implied that Seifer was not in his right mind during the course of the game fairly heavily, so I'd tend to go with that.
Same here.

[Arrianna]

I'm not going to comment on the fanfic, but in the Ultimania, at least--Selphie's final diary entry--it implied that Seifer was not in his right mind during the course of the game fairly heavily, so I'd tend to go with that.
Raijin and Fujin say as much in the game as well.

[MJN SEIFER]

Seifer was not "Eviled" by Ultimecia in the magic sense - Only Sorcerers and Sorceresses can (Usally) be controlled this way.

She simply exploited Seifer's "dreams" - Which were most likely childish fantasys. And made it look like it was a destiny cause,

Seifer BELIVED he was doing the right thing. This is evidenced in the prison scenes, of course his pride and strength where also used in this case.

But He wasn't Eviled in the propper sense.


(Will read the FF later)

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

Seifer had no idea what he was doing...and I'm gonna go with this.


I'm not going to comment on the fanfic, but in the Ultimania, at least--Selphie's final diary entry--it implied that Seifer was not in his right mind during the course of the game fairly heavily, so I'd tend to go with that.

[Fantasy Fan]

lets just say "Seifer was high"

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

Although he doesn't smoke or drink...hmmm...btw, did you know that a tired person has the same behavior as a drunk person? He could've been extremely tired at the time.

[Fantasy Fan]

Although he doesn't smoke or drink...hmmm...btw, did you know that a tired person has the same behavior as a drunk person? He could've been extremely tired at the time.
that was a joke. Although, he doesn't sleep very much does he?

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

Exactly. That fact is true cuz when you're tired your inhibitors are pretty much as bad as they are when you are drunk but they aren't being harmed by the alcohol. His tiredness could be the cause of why he makes so many stupid decisions...but I bet he's just like that anyways.

[Anaisa]

btw, did you know that a tired person has the same behavior as a drunk person? He could've been extremely tired at the time.
I don't know where you got that from, but it's not true.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

I learned it in driver's ed. Another warning sign to pull over and take fucking nap when you're driving at night. I you really disbelieve it, disprove it then. As for me, I took the class and actually read those stupid panphlets(sp) and they have said it in there.

[LunarWeaver]

I thought Seifer's truth was that he's in love with Squall? *Sets himself on fire and saves everybody the trouble*

I think he started off needing attention...Then when he went to school, he wasn't the best. He was shown up by Squall, hell he was shown up by Selphie.

That triggered the need to be special, and the sorceress provided that, not to mention it was his big dream, so perfect for him!

Then after that is where he starts to get trippy. I think he became obsessed with being a lot of things, and that messed with his mind to a point of tired/delusional/insanity, but luckily out of nowhere fishing solved all his problems.

[Anaisa]

I learned it in driver's ed. Another warning sign to pull over and take smurfing nap when you're driving at night. I you really disbelieve it, disprove it then. As for me, I took the class and actually read those stupid panphlets(sp) and they have said it in there.That is related to driving ability, and behavioural patterns of a drunk person driving and a tired person driving. That is in no way a reference to tired people and drunk people sharing behavioural traits in any other situation except driving.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

Ummm, I've seen it myself as well Anaisa. Do not underestimate the randomness of a tired person.

[*~Angel Wing~*]

I'm not going to comment on the fanfic, but in the Ultimania, at least--Selphie's final diary entry--it implied that Seifer was not in his right mind during the course of the game fairly heavily, so I'd tend to go with that.
Raijin and Fujin say as much in the game as well.
Yeah.

[_yeojina_]

Really?! I always thought Griever was Seifer. Look, it rhymes, they're both ugly (in my opinion) and they have the exact same cross.

[Xaven]

Seifer was not "Eviled" by Ultimecia in the magic sense - Only Sorcerers and Sorceresses can (Usally) be controlled this way.

She simply exploited Seifer's "dreams" - Which were most likely childish fantasys. And made it look like it was a destiny cause,

Seifer BELIVED he was doing the right thing. This is evidenced in the prison scenes, of course his pride and strength where also used in this case.

But He wasn't Eviled in the propper sense.
I feel along these lines.

[MJN SEIFER]

Really?! I always thought Griever was Seifer. Look, it rhymes, they're both ugly (in my opinion) and they have the exact same cross.

Is this a serious theory or a joke? At least the Squall treory had a BIT of evidense (I still dissagree though).


GF is just a verison of Squalls Depression given form. This is represented in it dieing and again in the ending.

[Viator]

Seifer name is Seifer Almasy.
If I remember Almasy is Jesus`s name for Mouslim(sorry I dont know how to spell it).
Seifer have Cross or Sword symbol or something like that.
Jesus have Cross symbol right?
Correct me if I'm wrong ok.

[Ryushikaze]

Jesus had no name for muslims. They didn't exist until 500 years after he supposedly lived.

You need to prove that Almasy= Jesus before going any further though.

BTW, where do you think you're going with this line of thought?

[Viator]

If I`m right, God of Muslims is Allah and Muslims believes that Jesus is Son of Allah But they call Jesus by Almasy

[Ryushikaze]

NO. Muslims believe that ole Jesus is merely another prophet, but not son of Allah, Messiah, or anything of the sort.

[Viator]

Do you already read the book of Muslim or do you know anything about Muslim?If not you must just guessing.

And I dont sure too about what I'm talking about because it`s been along time ago since I remember.

PS:Relax,dont mad at me OK.we just trying to figure out something right?
I could be wrong.

[Sir Bahamut]

Muslims believe that God (or, in Arabic, Allāh; also in Aramaic Alaha) revealed his direct word for humanity to Muhammad (c. 570–632) and earlier prophets, including Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam

[Jimmy Dark Aeons Slayer]

Seifer= Jesus Christ

i don´t think so...:rolleyes2

That´s just a guys imagination working it´s the same thing to say that Edea is the Virgin Mary or something like that:rolleyes2

[Viator]

I remember now Jesus name in Muslim is Isa Al-Masih
Al-Masih pronounce Almasy like Seifer Almasy.
Here is the explanation:

After Jesus slays al-Masīh al-Dajjāl (literally "the Deceiving Messiah," loosely the Antichrist; often referred to simply as "Dajjāl") at the Gate of Ludd in Palestine, Muslims believe he will marry, die, and be buried in the Masjid al Nabawi. During his life, he will have revealed that Islam is the true word of God.

I find that explaination at wikipedia Sir B recommended

Come on people say something.

Don't double post, especially to bump a thread.

~Void

[CloudDragon]

I'm pretty sure Seifer just wanted to shine. By the way, double posts are a no no here Viator. Edit your last post man.

[~SapphireStar~]

Come on people say something.
Everytime someone does say something and question you, you go off the rails or claim they are guessing. I dont know where that Sefier = JC came from, but I doubt Square would go religious like that. They havent done it before as far as I can rememeber. Well the GF Cerberus is the guardian to the underworld isnt he? But I guess thats Greek myth, not religion.

[Christmas]

So, what has Seifer's name now had to do with whether he is acting on his own free will throughout the game?

And you can't really define your own personal views or deductions with no backings or whatsoever of a game as the "TRUTH".

[Viator]

By the way, double posts are a no no here Viator. Edit your last post man.

Sorry.


Everytime someone does say something and question you, you go off the rails or claim they are guessing. I dont know where that Sefier = JC came from, but I doubt Square would go religious like that. They havent done it before as far as I can rememeber. Well the GF Cerberus is the guardian to the underworld isnt he? But I guess thats Greek myth, not religion.

At that time I am talking to Ryushikaze that he must guessing,that's all.


Seifer name is Seifer Almasy.
If I remember Almasy is Jesus`s name for Mouslim(sorry I dont know how to spell it).
Seifer have Cross or Sword symbol or something like that.
Jesus have Cross symbol right?

You see there similiarity with Seifer and Jesus.
they have Cross symbol.

[Ryushikaze]

I'm 'just guessing' at what constitutes a major difference between the core beliefs of Christianity and Islam? Riiiight.

In any case, while the Almasy/ Al Messih is an interesting co-inkydink (though you stress them quite differently), it is, at best, name theory. Considering that his first name means a particle which prevents full closure of an organ valve thus causing noise, and that he acts absolutely nothing like jesus, nor is there really any other islamic imagery in FF8 (excluding such things as Ifrit which are actually holdovers of previous mythologies), your argument falls flat.

And Sapphire, Myth and Religion are practically synonymous (well, to be anal, Myth is the stories and beliefs of a religion, separate from its practices and tenets), so yes, Cerebus is from the Greek Religion. Similarly, the Moses story, or Mohammed's ascension of the mountain to recieve god's word from Gibreel or his later full ascension to heaven are myth, despite being in currently practiced religions.

[~SapphireStar~]

You see there similiarity with Seifer and Jesus.
they have Cross symbol.
Alot of people have cross symbols on say clothes for example. Doesnt mean there is a JC connection.

[MJN SEIFER]

That's not a Christian Cross!

It's meant to be the Cross of a German Knight, I can't remember what knight yet but i'll find out later - needless to say it's an ilusion to Seifer being a "Knight" (Or at least he thinks he is one)

[Christmas]

That's not a Christian Cross!

It's meant to be the Cross of a German Knight, I can't remember what knight yet but i'll find out later - needless to say it's an ilusion to Seifer being a "Knight" (Or at least he thinks he is one)


For once I agree and I vaguely remember that it is suppose to represent knighthood.

By the way, the "PLUS" sign is a cross too, does it have similiarity with Jesus too?

[Demon Lancer]

In my opinion the whole first post of this thread should have had the spoiler tags around it :eep:

[Christmas]

Especially it is declared as the "TRUTH".

[Viator]

Truth is something what we believe true.

[Serapy]

Truth is something what we believe true.

Yeah but then we need proof or something similar to base on the truth accurately. In fact, we don't have proof regarding the JC theory.

Well, I mean, if this game was based on religious heaviliy, then I'm sure that will cause problems between other people who are religious. Have you ever heard the movie called 'Da Vinci Code'? That movie is entirely based on religious and has caused a lot of problems because the story in the movie has offended some religious people.

I don't believe in any religion and I have a cross, almost like the one that Seifer has.

I agree with other people, because remember, at that T.V station in the game, there was a scene that Edea has possessed Seifer to start messing around his minds, then Seifer got changed after all (he went silent) then he went to follow Edea through the white curtain and disappeared, Seifer started acting like Edea's knight. Later in the game, Seifer admitted that he always wanted to be Sorceress's Knight, which is weird because he wasn't like that way before Edea possessed him. Anyway, that does seem sense to me. That's the truth and
there's another truth as well:


Selphie's final diary entry--it implied that Seifer was not in his right mind during the course of the game fairly heavily.

[Arrianna]

Truth is something what we believe true.
aaaahhhhh....no.

Truth is truth. Belief is belief. You can believe the moon is made of cheese all you want it won't make it true.


truth
n. pl. truths (trthz, trths)

1. Conformity to fact or actuality.
2. A statement proven to be or accepted as true.
3. Sincerity; integrity.
4. Fidelity to an original or standard.
5.
1. Reality; actuality.
2. often Truth That which is considered to be the supreme reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of existence.

be·lief
n.

1. The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another: My belief in you is as strong as ever.
2. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something: His explanation of what happened defies belief.
3. Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Truth is always true. A belief is somthing you believe to be true but may or may not be. Simply believing in it is not enough to make it true.

Soooo... following that standard does what you believe to be true a)conform to the facts as given in the game or b)has been proven or is accepted as true?

Considering the number of people who have pointed out that your beliefs do not conform to the facts as given in the game and that they are not accepted as true by everyone else that leave your theory as only your belief.

Really, words have meanings for a reason.

[Viator]

I agree with other people, because remember, at that T.V station in the game, there was a scene that Edea has possessed Seifer to start messing around his minds, then Seifer got changed after all (he went silent) then he went to follow Edea through the white curtain and disappeared, Seifer started acting like Edea's knight. Later in the game, Seifer admitted that he always wanted to be Sorceress's Knight, which is weird because he wasn't like that way before Edea possessed him. Anyway, that does seem sense to me. That's the truth and
there's another truth as well

If Ultimecia can possess Seifer why she doesnt possess Squall and Co(i.e when they in D Disatrict prison).
Ultimecia cant possess Seifer.
Seifer act on her decision.

I only said :
Seifer name is Seifer Almasy.
If I remember Isa Al-Masih is Jesus`s name for Muslim.
Seifer have Cross or Sword symbol or something like that.
Jesus have Cross symbol right?

[Qurange]

She didn't possess Seifer--she manipulated him. He had a dream, and she used that, and twisted it. She got him alone, when he had nowhere else to go, and pounced on that. She had no such opportunity with Squall or the Headmaster--and I doubt she'd have wanted Squall, considering.

[Serapy]

If Jesus and Seifer are the same person (or related to each other because of the cross thing), then why did they want to help Ultimecia to rule the whole world? That's very evil, isn't it? Because I thought Jesus was a very moral, helpful and nice person.

If Seifer wanted to be evil, then he could be related to Hitler because Hitler was very evil, you know.

[Viator]

If Jesus and Seifer are the same person (or related to each other because of the cross thing), then why did they want to help Ultimecia to rule the whole world? That's very evil, isn't it? Because I thought Jesus was a very moral, helpful and nice person.

What are you talking about of course Seifer and Jesus is not the same person.

I only said that they have similiarity that's all.

[Christmas]

Truth is something what we believe true.

Seriously.


What are you talking about of course Seifer and Jesus is not the same person.

I only said that they have similiarity that's all.


WAIT, THE RED CROSS SIGN!!! OMFG. IT IS A CROSS LIKE SEIFER'S. DOES THAT MEAN SEIFER HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE RED CROSS?

WHAT ABOUT THE PLUS SIGN????? DOES THAT MEAN SEIFER IS GOOD AT MATHS TOO????

SEIFER IS SURE A MYSTERY YET UNSOLVED AND WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO SOLVE.

[Viator]

Seriously.

Whatever.


WAIT, THE RED CROSS SIGN!!! OMFG. IT IS A CROSS LIKE SEIFER'S. DOES THAT MEAN SEIFER HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE RED CROSS?

WHAT ABOUT THE PLUS SIGN????? DOES THAT MEAN SEIFER IS GOOD AT MATHS TOO????

Whatever.
Christmas you are too much.


SEIFER IS SURE A MYSTERY YET UNSOLVED AND WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO SOLVE.

Who is that SOMEONE?

[Serapy]

What's the point in saying that they have the similiarity then? As I recall from your posts, you made them sound like Seifer and Jesus are the same person.

And prove it that Seifer wanted to help Edea and Ultimecia, rather than being possessed by Edea.

[Christmas]

WAIT, THE RED CROSS SIGN!!! OMFG. IT IS A CROSS LIKE SEIFER'S. DOES THAT MEAN SEIFER HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE RED CROSS?

WHAT ABOUT THE PLUS SIGN????? DOES THAT MEAN SEIFER IS GOOD AT MATHS TOO????


Whatever.
Christmas you are too much.

What's wrong with that? You said Seifer had some similarities with Jesus because of the Cross now I just bring up the same point.



Who is that SOMEONE?

Someone that knows the TRUTH.

Lastly, from my previous post:


So, what has Seifer's name now had to do with whether he is acting on his own free will throughout the game?

[Viator]

What's the point in saying that they have the similiarity then? As I recall from your posts, you made them sound like Seifer and Jesus are the same person.

I just give the information that nobody ever knows.
I never said Seifer sound like Jesus
You just make it up.


What's wrong with that? You said Seifer had some similarities with Jesus because of the Cross now I just bring up the same point.


Not really, I said Seifer had some similiarities with Jesus because of the Cross AND the name
(Seifer Almasy) (Jesus = Isa al-Masih)
Your point is TOO MUCH,OK.


So, what has Seifer's name now had to do with whether he is acting on his own free will throughout the game?

I never state anything like that.
You just make a new idea now.


Someone that knows the TRUTH.

And WHO is that?

[Serapy]

I just give the information that nobody ever knows.
I never said Seifer sound like Jesus
You just make it up.

You should look at your posts above very carefully. If you said Jesus and Seifer have the same cross, then that's pointless if you don't have any reason for saying so. That's why your posts are referring to Jesus and Seifer being the same person, think of the outcomes of your posts.



And WHO is that?

You should know that, Square does know the answers and everything. Square is the only one who knows the truths, so pff.

[Viator]

You should know that, Square does know the answers and everything. Square is the only one who knows the truths, so pff.

I am not talking about Square.

[Ryushikaze]

So, are you talking about the OTHER Final Fantasy 8, the one that isn't inextricably linked to Square/Square-Enix? That would explain things.

[Christmas]

Not really, I said Seifer had some similiarities with Jesus because of the Cross AND the name
(Seifer Almasy) (Jesus = Isa al-Masih)
Your point is TOO MUCH,OK.

Not too much or too little, it's just nice without having to add anything extra. I got the plus sign AND the red cross sign.


I never state anything like that.
You just make a new idea now.

Oh, so what we are discussing now doesn't really have anything to do with the original topic of this thread you say?


I am not talking about Square..

I wonder what you are talking about throughout this thread. First, whether he is being control then his name. We should talk about his life as a fisherman later.

[Viator]

I know about Al-masih thing long time ago.
I wonder is that Square's intention or maybe just a coincidence?
I think it's Square's intention.I just a little suprise nobody know about this al-masih thing.

[~SapphireStar~]

You just make it up.
Why would he make up the fact that you have gone on about a Jesus and Seifer connection? You have mentioned similarities in your previous posts.