For once Pres. Bush made complete sense on an issue, immigration.

[hardboiled]

Anybody catch the Presidential address? Bush actually seemed very level headed during his speech, and his immigration policy seems good.

Are there any valid reasons not to make laws stricter on illegal immigrants?

[Acid Raine]

You DO know that he doesnt write his own speeches, right?

[Flying Mullet]

Are there any valid reasons not to make laws stricter on illegal immigrants?
Cost and Time versus Effectiveness. Economy.

[edczxcvbnm]

His policy is BS. In 2004 they fined 3 companies out of 5 million for hiring Illegal immigrants. He has not funded it and does not care to fund things to reduce illegal immigration. He just wants cheap labor for companies. His national guard move is laughable.

This guy is a joke...well he always has been but it just keeps getting worse. *waits for Rove and Cheney to be indited in the Plame case*

[Acid Raine]

Why do people always pick on Bush? Its not all his fault. His whole administration is screwing us over, but the poor fool gets all the blame.

[fire_of_avalon]

He selected his administration.

[Acid Raine]

so?

[Flying Mullet]

He knew what he was doing when he picked his administration. It was picked purely for business motives.

[Acid Raine]

-.- whatever. Blame who you want.

[edczxcvbnm]

Why do people always pick on Bush? Its not all his fault. His whole administration is screwing us over, but the poor fool gets all the blame.

He gets the blame because he is the one in charge. If he wanted things to change he could fire everyone in an instant and get a whole new administration but he likes what they do and defends them. It is his fault for supporting them and picking them in the first place.

[ZeZipster]

-.- whatever. Blame who you want.

They already are. Who they want to blame just so happens to be who's at fault.

[Hawkeye]

Bush is the boss and his administration is like (or is) his employees. If the employees do bad, so does George's business, and who do you think gets penalized for a bad business? His employees? No, Bush does, and ultimately, he decides what's what anyways (in a more simplistic view).

[Raistlin]

Sending the National Guard to help the border patrol is NOT a smart, level-headed move. And even though Bush promised that the National Guard would not help with the policing of the area around the border, I can easily see the border area turning into martial law.

[eestlinc]

National Guard - bad idea
guest worker program - bad idea

even good ideas like enforcement of immigration employment laws and amnesty for immigrants already here will probably be botched if his administration does it since his administration has proven itself completely incompetent at every single thing they do.

this stupid immigration speech is just some publicity to take the public eye off the corruption investigations and Rove's pending indictment.

if there was real justice in this world Bush would be dragged out into the public square and pelted with fruit.

[edczxcvbnm]

Amnesty for immigrants is a terrible idea eest. That already happened once(NAFTA) and it isn't a solution now. It doesn't solve the problem and only helps to validate the problem by saying we give amnesty every so many years. Can't do it again this close to the last time.

The real solution is charging a hefty fine towards place of employeement who knowingly employee illegals. Those fines would pay for the deportation and border security for a while to come. It would start to drive employeers to fire illegals they might have. If no one gives them a job then they will not come. It isn't a 100% sure fire plan but it is the best chance of massive reduction and reducing illegal immigration.

[hardboiled]

Wow! Everyone really dropped some good knowledge I didn't know, like they have hardly fined any complanies for hiring illegal immigrants because big business supports him and he wants to give them cheap labor in return...

I guess Bush is still up to his old antics of lying, but I guess this is just the 1st time I believed him.

[-N-]

-.- whatever. Blame who you want.http://img98.exs.cx/img98/6589/boxer_owned.jpg

[eestlinc]

Amnesty for immigrants is a terrible idea eest. That already happened once(NAFTA) and it isn't a solution now. It doesn't solve the problem and only helps to validate the problem by saying we give amnesty every so many years. Can't do it again this close to the last time.
you don't just give amnesty to anyone necessarily, but say anyone who has come here and worked for a set number of years (say five) should be able to gain legal residency.

[VorpalCyberWolf]

Well... coming from someone who lives in New Mexico, I think it wouldv'e been more efficient to send the 60 reinforcement regular standard border patrol with updated equipment like he said he was going to do 6 months ago.... Oh and all the protest rallies and stuff get fairly annoying to the people living here after awhile. Oh and please note that I am not an immigrant from the south myself... hell Im not even hispanic and I still think its a little overbearing. Let's just hope he doesn't piss off anyone too much in the process.

[Millia Billia]

I hate Bush. I can't think of a single good thing he's done since being "elected". When he won his second term I was glad I was moving outside the United States again because I kid of lost faith in the American people right at that point. I recall my father saying "That has backfire written all over it" when we were watching the news and they announced Bush's national guard at the border move. I laughed at bit at it.

Don't get me wrong, I am an American (dual citizenship between Brazil and America, actually), and I love my country, which is exactly why I hate Bush. You can literally pick up a rock, throw it, and hit something he's ruined in some way there.

[Acid Raine]

Yes, I am sure he got on his hands and knees and begged them to make these decisions. And there really wasnt much he could do about it.

Dont you all remember back in 7th grade when they told you the way the government works? The president doesnt actually have very much power. Between the Congress, House of Rep., Senate, and all that good stuff, Bush doesnt have too much say in whats going on.

Now, Im not defending Bush, I hate him as much as anyone else, but I just dont think we should foot all of the problems going on to him and him alone.

Im sure some obnoxious fool will try to prove me wrong with some snazzy comeback and a LONG explanation with lots of big words to make them sound smart. Well, go ahead. I really dont care

[Alive-Cat]

I don't know any big words.
And I'm NOT snazzy. :mad2:
The Presidential election was fixed, it's not a conspiracy, it just was. And so Bush got elected.
Now, I don't give a damn about how somebody gets themselves into a powerfull position, as long as they can handle it. It apears to me like Bush is doing absolutely nothing right, and everything wrong. (That's usually what happens if somebody gets nothing right.)
If a smart person had fixed the election and gotten into power, that would be fine. The whole world would have 99% less problems. Now I'm not being as naive as to say that 9/11 wouldn't have happened, it certainly would have, but if the President was smart it wouldn't have ended in a war in Iraq, and a load of bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif about weapons of mass destruction that didn't actually exist! (Acid Raine, you began by insulting the President and then gradually throughout this thread you have become his knight in shining armour :confused: )

But more on the ACTUAL subject, Bush's immigration policy.
He's ignored the immigration problem for the past five years, and is deciding to do something about now. He's sending thousands (6000 or more) of National Guard troops out to the borders. And these are alongside the National Guard troops that are already at the borders.
What happens when another natural disaster occurs, like hurricane Katrina? With Katrina the National Guard was already spread too thin, what about the next big disaster? It seems that they will be spread even thinner.
Even though I live in England, I still want Bush out, because his stupidity is still effecting the whole of mankind, and that's the REAL issue, I think.

[Acid Raine]

I don't know any big words.
And I'm NOT snazzy. :mad2:
The Presidential election was fixed, it's not a conspiracy, it just was. And so Bush got elected.
Now, I don't give a damn about how somebody gets themselves into a powerfull position, as long as they can handle it. It apears to me like Bush is doing absolutely nothing right, and everything wrong. (That's usually what happens if somebody gets nothing right.)
If a smart person had fixed the election and gotten into power, that would be fine. The whole world would have 99% less problems. Now I'm not being as naive as to say that 9/11 wouldn't have happened, it certainly would have, but if the President was smart it wouldn't have ended in a war in Iraq, and a load of bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif about weapons of mass destruction that didn't actually exist! (Acid Raine, you began by insulting the President and then gradually throughout this thread you have become his knight in shining armour :confused: )


How was it fixed? And would you RATHER have Kerry in office?

And what do you suggest he should have done about 9/11? I dont think war was the right answer, but I have no idea what wouldve been the right answer, so I have no right to criticize.

And I'm not defending him. I'm saying we shouldnt blame JUST him. Blame him AND the congress, and all that other crap that is too numerous to name.

My main point from the beginning has been: Bush does not make many of his own decisions.

[nik0tine]

My main point from the beginning has been: Bush does not make many of his own decisions.



so?

[Erdrick Holmes]

You DO know that he doesnt write his own speeches, right?


Nor does he read them.

[Yamaneko]

you don't just give amnesty to anyone necessarily, but say anyone who has come here and worked for a set number of years (say five) should be able to gain legal residency.
Get away living here illegally for five years and you too can become a citizen.

Doesn't sound right.

[Hawkeye]

Neither does any other of the conservative actions proposed, but something has to be done.

[nik0tine]

I don't think Bush is doing enough to persecute Mexicans. He needs to do more, and the rest of Arizona agrees with me.

[War Angel]

You DO know that he doesnt write his own speeches, right?
Oh, right.

So, when his speeches are dumb and you don't agree with them, it's his fault.

When his speeches ring true and make sense, you remind us all he doesn't write his own speeches.

Give the guy at least SOME credit. He's the president of the USA.

[Alive-Cat]

I think the whole immigration policy sucks. I think President Bush sucks. I already pointed out all the obvious faults in his policy, how the National Guard is going to be spread too thin. And it's not even gonna stop immigration, so it's all in vain.
Most of the National Guard are gonna be unarmed. They're barred from patrolling the border itself, as well as confronting, apprehending or even guarding the undocumented.
The troops will be in low profile, and doing crap like pushing paper, driving vans and operating computers. Bush could have saved the taxpayers a load and not bothered at all.

[Shoden]

If Bush made all his own choices, speeches and policies we'd all be nuclear mutants living the sewers.

[DarkLadyNyara]

Dont you all remember back in 7th grade when they told you the way the government works? The president doesnt actually have very much power. Between the Congress, House of Rep., Senate, and all that good stuff, Bush doesnt have too much say in whats going on.

Yeah, one problem with that. We have a republican controlled congress, which means that if Bush wants something to go through, it generally will. And he does have the veto power.:mad: There are only two branches that have real power in setting policy, and that's the president and congress, and they are actually pretty balanced.


I don't think Bush is doing enough to persecute Mexicans. He needs to do more, and the rest of Arizona agrees with me.
As do many Californians.:D


And would you RATHER have Kerry in office?

Um... YES!

[Alive-Cat]

And would you RATHER have Kerry in office?

Um... YES!

I gotta agree and say a new born baby would handle America better than Bush.

[Peegee]

Any url?

[edczxcvbnm]

Any url?

URL to the the President's Speech? I would check google video or you tube.