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Chris
05-28-2006, 02:39 PM
I'm never eating at KFC again. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5O6tgk8GTI) I knew that is was out of hand, but not to this extend. ><

blackmage_nuke
05-28-2006, 02:49 PM
Im just glad chickens havent evolved to exact thier revenge

Epiphany
05-28-2006, 02:50 PM
I had KFC for dinner last night. ^_^

Rye
05-28-2006, 02:53 PM
...

I am never eating there again. I couldn't even watch after the debeaking part, I started crying. Thank you for posting that, Chris. Never eating there again.

Craig
05-28-2006, 02:54 PM
:(

Dixie
05-28-2006, 03:02 PM
That was awful. I couldn't get through the end because how awful this was, and I just started crying(kinda like what Rye said). I saw this on the news once and thought "Oh, oh well. It can't be that bad." Well, now I know, and I'm never going to KFC again.

Venom
05-28-2006, 03:03 PM
KFC already sucked ass as it is, I guess now they kinda hit a rock bottom.

Rusty
05-28-2006, 03:08 PM
I'm pretty sure if it's that awful here where I am the RSPCA would be onto them by now. I don't know if that goes on here or not though.

Spiffing Cheese
05-28-2006, 03:11 PM
Seeing stuff like this makes me so happy that I haven't eaten KFC (or any other meat product) in nearly two years. :( That was horrible.

Dreddz
05-28-2006, 03:11 PM
This has been going on for ages, Ive seen loads of this videos, all the same. Nothing is going to change, even if we stop eating at KFC. And its not just KFC, what Bernard matthews do to there Turkeys is pretty much the same, but all of there Turkeys are awake. In a video I saw in an RS lesson, the machine that stunned the Turkeys had broke, and no one was doing anything about it, so the Turkeys died by bleeding to death. Not very nice.

Although this is all very wrong, the people fighting against animal cruelty are far from good, they are horrid people too, and I'd rather be working for KFC than work for them. They go very far, even resorting to attacking peoples familys etc.

Its something I turn a blind eye too, just pretend like this dosent happen, I know it may be childish, but its all we can do.

Zante
05-28-2006, 03:27 PM
That sucks... :mad:

Captain VooDoo
05-28-2006, 03:36 PM
now im glad ive never eaten there before and now i never will.
i hope kfc burns in hell.

Levian
05-28-2006, 03:38 PM
So you all thought chicken meat grew on trees, eh?

KoShiatar
05-28-2006, 03:41 PM
I'm glad there's no KFC in Italy.

Kappy
05-28-2006, 03:48 PM
I've seen that before, it's disgusting. Luckily I don't eat fast food at all, anyway.

Faris
05-28-2006, 03:49 PM
Glad I'm not a chicken.

I rarely eat there, the stuff is really fatty anyway.

Kappy
05-28-2006, 03:51 PM
There's nothing like the feeling of pure grease pouring out of your face, eh?

Zante
05-28-2006, 03:55 PM
So you all thought chicken meat grew on trees, eh?

Nothing wrong with killing chickens for food, but the cruelity shown on the video is unnecesary.

Jess
05-28-2006, 04:02 PM
I didn't eat at KFC to begin with. It's yucky.

Freya
05-28-2006, 04:20 PM
Yeah the debeaking is sad but..... Have you ever tried catching a freaking chicken? If you miss you're peaked to death by the rest of them. NOT kidding. The only way to catch a chicken and keep them from hurting you is, to hold them up side down. Those "Rough" handlers weren't roughly handling them that's chickens trying to escape. I know it's sad to see something like that but thats how the world goes, get over it.

Live on a ranch with chickens you might pick up a couple things.

Cruise Control
05-28-2006, 04:31 PM
They're chichkens, who cares.

theundeadhero
05-28-2006, 04:34 PM
Yeah, because that's so much worse than fucking eating the chicken.

Captain Maxx Power
05-28-2006, 04:43 PM
This is intensive farming guys. This is very much a part of the modern world. If it wasn't for this cruelty then we wouldn't have a fraction of the food necessary to feed everyone currently alive in the Western World. If we were to revert to "standard" farming methods we would be looking at global starvation within ten years. It's the price we pay for the lifestyle we have. Unless you all stop buying food from supermarkets and start growing your own you're a part of this. So unless you're self-sufficient or a veggie, you don't have much say in the matter quite frankly.

Old Manus
05-28-2006, 05:08 PM
How else are they going to do it?

Spiffing Cheese
05-28-2006, 05:14 PM
Yeah, because that's so much worse than smurfing eating the chicken.

I kind of agree with this. In the end, the chickens die and you eat their corpses. Sure, it's horrible to keep them in such conditions, but it isn't all that much of a big deal, considering that in the end they die to feed you, is it?


This is intensive farming guys. This is very much a part of the modern world. If it wasn't for this cruelty then we wouldn't have a fraction of the food necessary to feed everyone currently alive in the Western World. If we were to revert to "standard" farming methods we would be looking at global starvation within ten years. It's the price we pay for the lifestyle we have. Unless you all stop buying food from supermarkets and start growing your own you're a part of this. So unless you're self-sufficient or a veggie, you don't have much say in the matter quite frankly.

That pretty much sums up my feelings on this matter.

Hawkeye
05-28-2006, 05:20 PM
These kinds of videos piss me off. You got these liberals complaining about what goes on in factories but you got countless of even more excruciating problems in the world and all you're thinking is a goddamn chicken. Give me a fucking break.

smittenkitten
05-28-2006, 05:39 PM
I seen about 10 seconds into that documentry, and had to switch it off. :whimper:

Brian The Pink Shark
05-28-2006, 05:41 PM
As a vegeterian i am pleased with your progress. I myself didnt watch the video, i read these comemnts first and have decided against it, poor chickinses :choc:

Anaisa
05-28-2006, 05:42 PM
These kinds of videos piss me off. You got these liberals complaining about what goes on in factories but you got countless of even more excruciating problems in the world and all you're thinking is a goddamn chicken. Give me a smurfing break.
So we should ignore every problem there is unless it's considered to be the worst problem in the world? The job of an animal protection society is to protect animals, so yeah, their going to care about Chickens. Sorting out other problems that aren't related to Animal protection is not their job. Animal charities should not stop working because somebody considers other problems to be more important.

Shoeberto
05-28-2006, 05:43 PM
These kinds of videos piss me off. You got these liberals complaining about what goes on in factories but you got countless of even more excruciating problems in the world and all you're thinking is a goddamn chicken. Give me a smurfing break.
:<3:

Seriously, there's bigger problems than chickens in the world. And it's not like this is exclusive to KFC. Get chicken from the store? Chances are its head was put through a hole cut in the bottom of a bucket and cut off by a butcher's knife. And not by some big, ugly corporate farmer. It happens. Get over it.

Markus. D
05-28-2006, 05:44 PM
:(

those poor darling chickens.

edit: McDonalds all the way.

escobert
05-28-2006, 05:46 PM
KFC already sucked ass as it is, I guess now they kinda hit a rock bottom.

RPJesus
05-28-2006, 06:11 PM
What's strange is that she looks like the babysitter from Malcolm in the Middle.

But not minding that, that's disturbing. I've heard this stuff before, but never actually watched it. It's really... disturbing. I'm vegetarian anyway, though, so it hasn't made me feel any different than before.

It isn't just KFC, though. A lot of places. McDonalds and stuff, except with cows as well. Even Asda (so you have to watch which chickens you buy from there. Not the ones with marks). People really can be bastards. They do it to other humans if they get a profit.

Roto13
05-28-2006, 06:47 PM
What's strange is that she looks like the babysitter from Malcolm in the Middle.
That's because she was the baby sitter on Malcom in the Middle. Actresses act. It's really not all that strange. ;)

rubah
05-28-2006, 06:54 PM
If it wasn't for this cruelty then we wouldn't have a fraction of the food necessary to feed everyone currently alive in the Western World. If we were to revert to "standard" farming methods we would be looking at global starvation within ten years.
Then how come a huge fraction of the food in the western world is wasted and the eastern world has huge numbers of starving people?

Nick Schovitz
05-28-2006, 07:10 PM
I'm never eating at KFC again. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5O6tgk8GTI) I knew that is was out of hand, but not to this extend. ><
whgat's the point of this thread, can you even give reason behind it?

ff7+ff10 gurl 100
05-28-2006, 07:33 PM
...

I am never eating there again. I couldn't even watch after the debeaking part, I started crying. Thank you for posting that, Chris. Never eating there again.

StarChild
05-28-2006, 07:34 PM
ew...I feel...dirty.

Madonna
05-28-2006, 08:51 PM
So you all thought chicken meat grew on trees, eh?

RPJesus
05-28-2006, 08:56 PM
Yeah, but that doesn't mean you have to treat the animals liek that first. They do that to save money and effort, not because it's the only way.

I went to a Safari place in france. They had all the different animals living in something like their natural habitats. You could see and goggle at them all. And then, afterwards, you could buy their meat in the giftshop.
And people think it's worse, but that's really quite a good thing. I'd might not mind eating them if they were treated that well.

It's just eating them and ignoring the horrible ways they're kept that's bad.

KoShiatar
05-28-2006, 09:03 PM
So you all thought chicken meat grew on trees, eh?


You know, I've got chickens at home, but they've got plenty of space to run around, they still have their beak and legs and when they die to give me something to eat, they don't do it like that.

Madame Adequate
05-28-2006, 09:06 PM
This is intensive farming guys. This is very much a part of the modern world. If it wasn't for this cruelty then we wouldn't have a fraction of the food necessary to feed everyone currently alive in the Western World. If we were to revert to "standard" farming methods we would be looking at global starvation within ten years.

Clearly untrue, given that farming crops is far more effective than farming meat is. Meat isn't remotely necessary anymore, given our current vitamin supplements and ability to transport crops and suchlike.

I enjoy the taste of suffering, though, so I've no problem with eating the stuff.

Yamaneko
05-28-2006, 09:08 PM
Chickens ranks somewhere between cruelty towards dogs and cruelty towards frogs. I don't lose any sleep over it.

Madame Adequate
05-28-2006, 09:12 PM
Chickens ranks somewhere between cruelty towards dogs and cruelty towards frogs. I don't lose any sleep over it.

But dogs are one of our most beloved pets and frogs are just plain awesome; chickens are much lower than either of those.

Anaisa
05-28-2006, 09:12 PM
This is intensive farming guys. This is very much a part of the modern world. If it wasn't for this cruelty then we wouldn't have a fraction of the food necessary to feed everyone currently alive in the Western World. If we were to revert to "standard" farming methods we would be looking at global starvation within ten years.

Clearly untrue, given that farming crops is far more effective than farming meat is. Meat isn't remotely necessary anymore, given our current vitamin supplements and ability to transport crops and suchlike.

I enjoy the taste of suffering, though, so I've no problem with eating the stuff.
Vegetarians don't need to take supplements. There is no required nutrient in meat that you can't obtain from a vegetarian diet.

Yamaneko
05-28-2006, 09:14 PM
No, but you have to consume larger amounts to absorb the daily proteins you need. Most people couldn't eat that much so they take supplements.

Zeromus_X
05-28-2006, 09:15 PM
I really don't understand the logic in this. If it's going to die and be eaten anyway, why does it matter how it dies? (If it's even being tortured in the first place.) If something has a lower intelligence then humans, then I really don't see the point.

Besides, I like Twisters.

Anaisa
05-28-2006, 09:25 PM
No, but you have to consume larger amounts to absorb the daily proteins you need. Most people couldn't eat that much so they take supplements.
That's not true. Vegetarian meat substitutes are not lacking in protein. Soya beans in particular are a very good source of protein.

Tifa's Real Lover(really
05-28-2006, 09:36 PM
that was very hard to watch

ZeZipster
05-28-2006, 09:38 PM
These kinds of videos piss me off. You got these liberals complaining about what goes on in factories but you got countless of even more excruciating problems in the world and all you're thinking is a goddamn chicken. Give me a smurfing break.
:<3:

Seriously, there's bigger problems than chickens in the world. And it's not like this is exclusive to KFC. Get chicken from the store? Chances are its head was put through a hole cut in the bottom of a bucket and cut off by a butcher's knife. And not by some big, ugly corporate farmer. It happens. Get over it.

I know! I mean, it's not the worst of your problems. Why, people are dying in Iraq and those damn liberals are complaining about how I brutally rape 10 year olds, what idiots! Well I'm off to go senselessly slaughter some Jews, but don't worry, I'm not the worst of your problems! Do me a favor though, when some one is alienated by senseless slaughter and rape, do whine about other problems. Even if you aren't alienated I'm sure empathy for what's obviously disturbed them isn't necessary.

Chris
05-28-2006, 09:56 PM
I'm never eating at KFC again. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5O6tgk8GTI) I knew that is was out of hand, but not to this extend. ><
whgat's the point of this thread, can you even give reason behind it?
Oh, I thought it was pretty obvious? Everybody else seem to grasp the idea behind it. Awareness! Yeah, that's a pretty good reason don't you think so?

Anyways, yes the actress/ narrator is Broadway legend, Bea Arthur.

fantasyjunkie
05-28-2006, 10:02 PM
I never liked KFC anyway. But I LOVE Popeyes! :)

Fire_Emblem776
05-28-2006, 10:05 PM
Horrible! Glad i havent gone their in forever.

Epiphany
05-28-2006, 10:38 PM
Besides, I like Twisters.

That's what I had for dinner last night. :love: @ Twisters.

Brian The Pink Shark
05-28-2006, 10:43 PM
This is intensive farming guys. This is very much a part of the modern world. If it wasn't for this cruelty then we wouldn't have a fraction of the food necessary to feed everyone currently alive in the Western World. If we were to revert to "standard" farming methods we would be looking at global starvation within ten years.

Clearly untrue, given that farming crops is far more effective than farming meat is. Meat isn't remotely necessary anymore, given our current vitamin supplements and ability to transport crops and suchlike.

I enjoy the taste of suffering, though, so I've no problem with eating the stuff.
Vegetarians don't need to take supplements. There is no required nutrient in meat that you can't obtain from a vegetarian diet.


too true i dont take any additional vitamen suppliments, i just eat a balanced diet and make sure i get the vitamins i need through that :choc:

Yuna-Lenne
05-28-2006, 11:33 PM
I became a strict vegetarian 5 years ago after seeing a program much like that. I never knew about de-beaking though. O_O I knew about the rest, how they live in a crowded pen, on top of each other, their legs eroded away cause their made to live in their own flith. It's awful. :(

Skarr
05-29-2006, 12:18 AM
I'm not moved by it all. I suppose worse things can happen, like if that happened to dogs or something. :/

Mirage
05-29-2006, 12:35 AM
Can't say i was too moved by it either.
Sure, if it was up to me, I'd fix a few things, like having a lighter chichen-density, and avoid that debeaking. I'd also be sure to kill them off in a matter of seconds. And I've never been a fan of growth-inducing hormones. Sure, the food would become twice as expensive because of this, but I'm sure us healthy westerners could afford that, right?
I just have too much else on my mind to be caught up in this, and there's far worse things going on when it comes to unethical treatment of animals. Like people torturing them just for fun and recreation. I'm generally against killing animals for other reasons than food and self defence.

nik0tine
05-29-2006, 12:39 AM
These kinds of videos piss me off. You got these liberals complaining about what goes on in factories but you got countless of even more excruciating problems in the world and all you're thinking is a goddamn chicken. Give me a smurfing break.
Injustice is injustice. Just because there are worse things going on doesn't mean you get to ignore stuff like this.

Hawkeye
05-29-2006, 12:59 AM
It's a chicken for christssakes. It means nothing to me other than humans are on top of the food chain than a chicken. If you want to be an egotistical little bitch by going on strike against KFC because of how they process chicken food, that's your problem. It does nothing to me.

nik0tine
05-29-2006, 01:07 AM
Steps could be taken to minimize the suffering of the chicken, but those steps aren't being taken. Yeah, it is just a chicken, but it doesn't have to suffer the way that it is. The only reason it does suffer is because KFC is more concerned with money than they are morality. I don't care if they kill a few chickens, but seriously, what reason is there to torture chickens? None.

Mr. Graves
05-29-2006, 01:13 AM
The funny thing is, people who are saying they'll never eat at KFC again are probably only saying this because they are seeing what is happening behind the scenes, and probably never thought that the chicken they ate was alive at one point (maybe I'm wrong on that last part). Also, it's PETA's video, right? That should say something right there.

ZeZipster
05-29-2006, 01:18 AM
It's a chicken for christssakes. It means nothing to me other than humans are on top of the food chain than a chicken. If you want to be an egotistical little bitch by going on strike against KFC because of how they process chicken food, that's your problem. It does nothing to me.

"an egotistical little bitch"? Care to explain how protesting chicken makes anyone egotistical? I like your argument, because by your logic I could eat my brother and it'd mean nothing but I am "on top of the food chain than" my brother.

Hawkeye
05-29-2006, 01:23 AM
Egotistical little bitch because the people in my mind who are protesting and striking against KFC for the 'goodness and moralities of the chicken' are self-proclaiming that they are better people by NOT eating KFC and protecting the chickens than the people who continue to eat there. You could pull the argument by "well how do you know that?" Because history repeats itself; ever see a vegetarian who is against all meat slaughter and tries to force their moralities against others? They are egotistical little bitches.

Actually, my arguement still stands, because unlike you and your brother, the same species, a chicken and a human are in no ways relevent.

ZeZipster
05-29-2006, 01:36 AM
Egotistical little bitch because the people in my mind who are protesting and striking against KFC for the 'goodness and moralities of the chicken' are self-proclaiming that they are better people by NOT eating KFC and protecting the chickens than the people who continue to eat there. You could pull the argument by "well how do you know that?" Because history repeats itself; ever see a vegetarian who is against all meat slaughter and tries to force their moralities against others? They are egotistical little bitches.

Actually, my arguement still stands, because unlike you and your brother, the same species, a chicken and a human are in no ways relevent.

No one in this thread has said they were better than you (but the guilty dog does bark). You're just being defensive. In your mind is right, you have this all played out don't you? No one is forcing their moralities on you, they're expressing their personal disgust for this. It's obvious they care about chickens and you don't. But why the name-calling? Let's just recap what everyone in this thread who has said they weren't eating KFC is in your head:

1. Liberal
2. Egotistical
3. Bitches
4. Self-proclaiming they are better than you
5. Doomed to becoming vegeterians who will of course try to make you become vegeterian also.

Personally, I know a lot of vegeterians who I honestly don't think haven't tried to make you become vegeterian. But your true fear of being prosecuted for eating meat is out in the open now, isn't it?

Madame Adequate
05-29-2006, 01:44 AM
Egotistical little bitch because the people in my mind who are protesting and striking against KFC for the 'goodness and moralities of the chicken' are self-proclaiming that they are better people by NOT eating KFC and protecting the chickens than the people who continue to eat there. You could pull the argument by "well how do you know that?" Because history repeats itself; ever see a vegetarian who is against all meat slaughter and tries to force their moralities against others? They are egotistical little bitches.

Of course they're proclaiming that. I don't see how saying "I don't eat meat and I don't support a company which needlessly tortures animals to save a few bucks." isn't a moral statement. I also don't see how anybody can deny that someone stating as much is, if they adhere to it, a better person than someone like me who just plain doesn't care.


Vegetarians don't need to take supplements. There is no required nutrient in meat that you can't obtain from a vegetarian diet.


Meat isn't remotely necessary anymore, given our current vitamin supplements and ability to transport crops and suchlike.

By this, I meant that with the ability to get things to where they are needed (Rather than each geographical area being limited to whatever grows there.) AND vitamin supplements to pick up the slack/step in if crops fail/be used if someone doesn't like a food, meat is unnecessary. If we couldn't move food around, and if we didn't have vitamin supplements instead of that, vegetarianism would be a more difficult proposition.

Fonzie
05-29-2006, 03:44 AM
I don't know what happens to the chickens, but its delicious.:D God put animals on earth to feed man(and women) so i can live with it.

Mirage
05-29-2006, 03:58 AM
Let's discuss chickens and KFC without pulling religion into it...

Hawkeye
05-29-2006, 04:18 AM
But your true fear of being prosecuted for eating meat is out in the open now, isn't it?
Yes.

Fonzie
05-29-2006, 04:49 AM
I don't get it why people get uncomfortable when i talk about God lol. Also KFC was never that great etiher. Churchs chicken is like 10 times better.

ZeZipster
05-29-2006, 05:10 AM
I don't get it why people get uncomfortable when i talk about God I cried aloud with mirth and merriment. Also KFC was never that great etiher. Churchs chicken is like 10 times better.

No one is getting uncomfortable. Quit flattering yourself. I personally just don't like you speaking for God, and you should be happy Mirage asked you nicely to keep your faith out of this. I don't remember Jesus ever saying anything about putting chickens on this planet for an assembly-line slaughterhouse.

Madame Adequate
05-29-2006, 05:18 AM
No one is getting uncomfortable. Quit flattering yourself. I personally just don't like you speaking for God, and you should be happy Mirage asked you nicely to keep your faith out of this. I don't remember Jesus ever saying anything about putting chickens on this planet for an assembly-line slaughterhouse.

“Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any questions on the ground of conscience. For ‘the earth is the Lord’s and everything in it.’”

(1 Corinthians 10:25-26)

And he is perfectly within his rights to base his considerations on the matter on his religious views. What the hell is someone going to base their ethics on, a viewpoint they don't agree with?

Fonzie
05-29-2006, 05:20 AM
A chicken is an animal, also many other animals are killed like this cows,fish, and others. Here's a statement from some website i looked at.

Perhaps even worse are those who twist biblical truths to support manmade philosophies. Yet, that is exactly what PETA has done with it’s new campaign promoting: "Jesus was a Vegetarian, Show respect for God’s creatures - follow Him." The group has erected billboards with that message, and it has created an entire Internet web site dedicated to perverting Jesus and biblical doctrine in the name of animal rights. This web site"proves" that Jesus ate no meat (including fish), that he disapproved of killing animals, that God did not give man dominion over animals, and that man must live at peace with animals.

If someone said, "Look, I don’t believe in God or the Bible. I’ve just decided for myself that killing animals is wrong," I could accept that. Even though it’s dead wrong, at least it’s an honest statement. But to twist the Bible to brainwash people and promote a twisted agenda? That’s the ultimate perversion - one that demands a response.

Millia Billia
05-29-2006, 06:59 AM
That's mean.

Cloud_omnislash_Strife
05-29-2006, 07:18 AM
Im eating there again and you whats worse than seeing a chicken die is a pig die I saw them slauhter them its okay its a cycle.......
the weak is food for the strong and the weaker are food for the weak.
Humans-->Chickens--->worms

the only problem is that people dont care about endangered animals they kill em and they killing animals just like how thay killed all the buffalo and yes I love all animals.

Sylvie
05-29-2006, 07:26 AM
They're chichkens, who cares.

Yeah, thats real pure-hearted... :rolleyes2

Chickens feel pain. What if some other greater race than us were to inhabit the world? They would say "They're just Humans." Yeah, we feel pain just like chickens do. There are other things that live other than us, Mr. Nosebleed.

Cloud_omnislash_Strife
05-29-2006, 07:30 AM
If it wasn't for this cruelty then we wouldn't have a fraction of the food necessary to feed everyone currently alive in the Western World. If we were to revert to "standard" farming methods we would be looking at global starvation within ten years.
Then how come a huge fraction of the food in the western world is wasted and the eastern world has huge numbers of starving people?

that is true cause where I am there are a hell lotta beggars and poor starving people

Jojee
05-29-2006, 07:40 AM
What's with the "I cried out loud with mirth and merriment" everyone is saying o_O;; Doesn't seem like it'd be a common sentence... XD first Perola, now Jackpot... cracked me up when I first heard it xD

Anyway about chickens... ;P I didn't watch the video after reading some comments, I totally freak out over this pain-filled stuff. I don't think of myself as an egotistical little bitch, but I do support not torturing animals needlessly, even if they are going to be used for food. I really don't see what people are trying to say when they say, "It's just a chicken, it's sub-human so it doesn't matter." So a question to them: Do you feel the same way about torturing puppies and kittens?

DynasticJam
05-29-2006, 07:50 AM
I have no guilt, I never eat at KFC and I am proud to say that, especially after seeing this video. I am not a vegetarien, I just HATE KFC, not just the food but also the asylem seekers who work there who cant speak a damned word of English!!! I think the workers should be punnished!

Rase
05-29-2006, 08:13 AM
What's with the "I cried out loud with mirth and merriment" everyone is saying o_O;; Doesn't seem like it'd be a common sentence... XD first Perola, now Jackpot... cracked me up when I first heard it xD

Try typing lol with a period after it. :p lol.

Anyway, as for this thing, well, that is pretty bad. Doesn't mean I won't eat at KFC, but it does suck for the chickens.

As a side note, Bea Arthur scares me.

Freya
05-29-2006, 08:27 AM
*sigh*

I can't believe you are still ranting about this people...

When they said "pushing your morals" they mean when you protest and say people shouldn't do something, someone is going to assume you mean that they shouldn't do it and you're talking directly to them. It's human nature to jump to conclusions. Same as it's a chickens nature to be eaten.
Now don't go "OMG it is not thier nature to be eaten" think about it. If we weren't here what would eat a chicken? Nearly everything. I know my dogs love to chase chickens about and if i wasn't there we'd have some dead chickens lying around.
I agree that some of the way they treat the chickens is cruel but how would you do it differently besides fixing the cruel parts? Inject them with something to kill them without hurting them but risk feeding everyone contminated meat? Not eating them? That would be "pushing your morals".
Tell me how could you go about it?

Jojee
05-29-2006, 08:49 AM
It is not a chicken's nature to be eaten. You can't have a "nature" to be eaten, and definitely not in the same way as it is "human nature to jump to conclusions." :| It is every living creature's "nature" to live.

Mirage
05-29-2006, 10:26 AM
They're chichkens, who cares.

Yeah, thats real pure-hearted... :rolleyes2

Chickens feel pain. What if some other greater race than us were to inhabit the world? They would say "They're just Humans." Yeah, we feel pain just like chickens do. There are other things that live other than us, Mr. Nosebleed.
Survival of the fittest, you know. Sure, I would hate it if such a thing happened, but I don't think they would be to blame, they're just trying to survive anyway :p. And I'm sure they would find that cows are much easier to farm than humans.

Old Manus
05-29-2006, 10:36 AM
I'm still not 100% sure that this isn't in EoEO

Anaisa
05-29-2006, 01:02 PM
It's a chicken for christssakes. It means nothing to me other than humans are on top of the food chain than a chicken. If you want to be an egotistical little bitch by going on strike against KFC because of how they process chicken food, that's your problem. It does nothing to me.
It's far more egotistical to think that because your able to kill an animal an eat it, then it's ok to do so. There is nothing egotistical about thinking that animals deserve to be treated with respect, quite the opposite. What's egotistical is thinking that every other life form is below your own species.

nik0tine
05-29-2006, 01:09 PM
And he is perfectly within his rights to base his considerations on the matter on his religious views. What the hell is someone going to base their ethics on, a viewpoint they don't agree with?His right to free speech has nothing to do with this. Just because he has 'the right' does not mean that he is in 'the right'.

Fantasy Fan
05-29-2006, 01:30 PM
That's cruel, there's just one thing, why would KFC do that? Are they really that dumb as to torture chickens, and then not try and stop PETA (the dumbest organisation ever) to show a video about what they're doing? That just doesn't make sense. Yes, that was cruel, but why would they do that? Why would KFC debeak chickens? And boil them to remove feathers, and slit their throats? It just doesn't make sense. And how come I've only heard of that now, you'd think if it was that bad it would of been stopped right away by other animal protection agencies, right? That video was shown on 22/02/06. 3 months later, still KFC! No-one listens to PETA. They're fucked in the head. And KFC does NOT do that. It doesn't make sense.

And, think PETA's A LOT WORSE than KFC.

Anaisa
05-29-2006, 02:08 PM
That's cruel, there's just one thing, why would KFC do that? Are they really that dumb as to torture chickens, and then not try and stop PETA (the dumbest organisation ever) to show a video about what they're doing? That just doesn't make sense. Yes, that was cruel, but why would they do that? Why would KFC debeak chickens? And boil them to remove feathers, and slit their throats? It just doesn't make sense. And how come I've only heard of that now, you'd think if it was that bad it would of been stopped right away by other animal protection agencies, right? That video was shown on 22/02/06. 3 months later, still KFC! No-one listens to PETA. They're smurfed in the head. And KFC does NOT do that. It doesn't make sense.

And, think PETA's A LOT WORSE than KFC.
PETA is not "the dumbest organization ever". They do the job their supposed to be doing well. KFC obviously didn't make the video. Have you ever heard of undercover footage? That's what that is. KFC doesn't do that? An how do you know? People do listen to PETA, you might want to do some research on what PETA has acheived before you comment that nobody listens to them. It doesn't make sense that a corporation that's business is based on the killing and eating of Chickens, doesn't care for their welfare? Shutting a business down based on Animal cruelty isn't an easy task, because the majority of people don't give a damn about how Chickens are treated in a slaughter house.

Fantasy Fan
05-29-2006, 02:37 PM
oh come on. You really don't get PETA do you. Well this is the things PETA hates:

All meat restaurants
Animal testing
Farms
Pets
Animal Pounds
Zoos
And anything else to do with animals.

If you look at PETA's bill for rescuing animals, you'd see that they spend nearly $10,000 on a walk-in freezer. Now think about it, a freezer that big would have to be 10ft by 15ft. Why would PETA want a freezer that big? One of two reasons.

1. Meat which no-one in PETA would be caught dead with.
2. Cadavres. And guess what, from Ingrid Newkirke herself "Sometimes the only kind treatments for animals, is putting them to sleep forever." PETA kills more than 2/3 of the animals they save.

And what about animal testing? Animal testing saves millions of other animals through technology and they're trying to stop it??? Some people of PETA even use medicines FROM animal testing. Suprised?

for more information on PETA, watch /xxx.gif[/img]/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif]this video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1913999390200944075&q=bull[img)

Tifa's Real Lover(really
05-29-2006, 02:58 PM
does it matter if their tortured? there gonna die anyways

bipper
05-29-2006, 03:10 PM
Well at the end of June, I will be grabbing chickents and hacking off their heads, defeathering them, and gutting them. My inlaws have done this for years, and its somthing I rolled into. Luckily chickens are very distant to pain, and thier not so pick with thier living conditions.

Also, think of the crap chickens go through in the wild - they rarely make it. Domesticated chickens have been dumbed down to the point where they can die by looking up when it rains, and they get water in thier mouth then drown. Its sad.

Bipper

Madame Adequate
05-29-2006, 03:27 PM
And he is perfectly within his rights to base his considerations on the matter on his religious views. What the hell is someone going to base their ethics on, a viewpoint they don't agree with?His right to free speech has nothing to do with this. Just because he has 'the right' does not mean that he is in 'the right'.

Whether he's right about this particular issue or not is neither here nor there. What's wrong is telling him he can't bring religion into it, when it's clearly the basis for his morality, at least when it comes to this issue. That's basically saying you can't base your morality on anything, because if you discard an opinion on the basis of nothing except that it has a religious source, someone can equally turn around and tell us our opinions are invalid because they come from ourselves/Mill/Kant/whoever.


Same as it's a chickens nature to be eaten.
Now don't go "OMG it is not thier nature to be eaten" think about it. If we weren't here what would eat a chicken? Nearly everything. I know my dogs love to chase chickens about and if i wasn't there we'd have some dead chickens lying around.

There are plenty of creatures out there who would readily kill Humans, would you contend that it is our nature to be killed by grizzlies, for instance? No. Just because a creature commonly meets a certain end, or fulfills a certain role, does not mean it is 'in their nature'. A part of nature, yes. But in their nature suggests it is something they actively seek out, conciously or otherwise. Clearly the only things which actively try to get eaten are plant seeds and (I think) some parasites. Chickens do not gain from being eaten, therefore it cannot be said that they are designed to be eaten.

Anaisa
05-29-2006, 03:36 PM
oh come on. You really don't get PETA do you. Well this is the things PETA hates:

All meat restaurants
Animal testing
Farms
Pets
Animal Pounds
Zoos
And anything else to do with animals.

If you look at PETA's bill for rescuing animals, you'd see that they spend nearly $10,000 on a walk-in freezer. Now think about it, a freezer that big would have to be 10ft by 15ft. Why would PETA want a freezer that big? One of two reasons.

1. Meat which no-one in PETA would be caught dead with.
2. Cadavres. And guess what, from Ingrid Newkirke herself "Sometimes the only kind treatments for animals, is putting them to sleep forever." PETA kills more than 2/3 of the animals they save.

And what about animal testing? Animal testing saves millions of other animals through technology and they're trying to stop it??? Some people of PETA even use medicines FROM animal testing. Suprised?

for more information on PETA, watch /xxx.gif[/img]/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif]this video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1913999390200944075&q=bull[img)
My internet connection is messed up at the moment, so I can't watch that video. PETA does not kill more than two thirds of the Animals they save. The majority of Animals they save or are trying to save aren't even in the care of PETA, so it's not even possible for them to kill the Animals. PETA disagrees with meat eating, so obviously they don't condone restaurants serving meat. PETA don't disagree with all farming, just animal farming. PETA does not disagree with the keeping of pets, or Animal pounds. The statistics on how many Animals are killed by PETA, is based on the number of Animals that PETA has euthanised, that are sick. PETA does not run an Animal shelter, the Animals that PETA keeps are sick Animals only. Which is where those statistics come from. They are only receiving Animals that are suffering and need to be euthanised. So there not killing the majority of Animals they save. They euthanize Animals that are suffering. They have tried to receive financial backing to open up their own shelters, but have not been able to do so. As far as zoos go, I agree that keeping Animals in a zoo is not a good idea purely for people to come and look at them. But as long as a zoo is aiding conservation with breeding programmes, and helping to raise money for Animals, and their enclosures are of a certain standard, then I don't think they are a bad thing. It's not surprising that Peta would need a fridge of that size, which is most likely used for storing Animal bodies before they can be removed. Just because you disagree with Animal testing, doesn't mean you're are wrong for using medication that has been tested on Animals. If their was an option to take medication that was tested on humans only, then I'm sure that's what they would take. Whether people have been helped by Animal testing is irrelevent. Because we would have benefitted alot more by testing on Humans alone for medication that is intended for Human use. We have rapists, murderers, etc, that we could use to test on. We don't need to test on Animals, unless we're developing medication that is intended for an Animal.

Freya
05-29-2006, 03:39 PM
Well at the end of June, I will be grabbing chickents and hacking off their heads, defeathering them, and gutting them. My inlaws have done this for years, and its somthing I rolled into. Luckily chickens are very distant to pain, and thier not so pick with thier living conditions.

Also, think of the crap chickens go through in the wild - they rarely make it. Domesticated chickens have been dumbed down to the point where they can die by looking up when it rains, and they get water in thier mouth then drown. Its sad.

Bipper
Yeah,




and they eat thier own poo you know.

ff7+ff10 gurl 100
05-29-2006, 04:08 PM
does it matter if their tortured? there gonna die anyways
:eep:

Zante
05-29-2006, 04:08 PM
If their was an option to take medication that was tested on humans only, then I'm sure that's what they would take.

Shows where their priorities lie, I would say.

Fantasy Fan
05-29-2006, 04:20 PM
oh come on. You really don't get PETA do you. Well this is the things PETA hates:

All meat restaurants
Animal testing
Farms
Pets
Animal Pounds
Zoos
And anything else to do with animals.

If you look at PETA's bill for rescuing animals, you'd see that they spend nearly $10,000 on a walk-in freezer. Now think about it, a freezer that big would have to be 10ft by 15ft. Why would PETA want a freezer that big? One of two reasons.

1. Meat which no-one in PETA would be caught dead with.
2. Cadavres. And guess what, from Ingrid Newkirke herself "Sometimes the only kind treatments for animals, is putting them to sleep forever." PETA kills more than 2/3 of the animals they save.

And what about animal testing? Animal testing saves millions of other animals through technology and they're trying to stop it??? Some people of PETA even use medicines FROM animal testing. Suprised?

for more information on PETA, watch /xxx.gif[/img]/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif]this video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1913999390200944075&q=bull[img)
My internet connection is messed up at the moment, so I can't watch that video. PETA does not kill more than two thirds of the Animals they save. The majority of Animals they save or are trying to save aren't even in the care of PETA, so it's not even possible for them to kill the Animals. PETA disagrees with meat eating, so obviously they don't condone restaurants serving meat. PETA don't disagree with all farming, just animal farming. PETA does not disagree with the keeping of pets, or Animal pounds. The statistics on how many Animals are killed by PETA, is based on the number of Animals that PETA has euthanised, that are sick. PETA does not run an Animal shelter, the Animals that PETA keeps are sick Animals only. Which is where those statistics come from. They are only receiving Animals that are suffering and need to be euthanised. So there not killing the majority of Animals they save. They euthanize Animals that are suffering. They have tried to receive financial backing to open up their own shelters, but have not been able to do so. As far as zoos go, I agree that keeping Animals in a zoo is not a good idea purely for people to come and look at them. But as long as a zoo is aiding conservation with breeding programmes, and helping to raise money for Animals, and their enclosures are of a certain standard, then I don't think they are a bad thing. It's not surprising that Peta would need a fridge of that size, which is most likely used for storing Animal bodies before they can be removed. Just because you disagree with Animal testing, doesn't mean you're are wrong for using medication that has been tested on Animals. If their was an option to take medication that was tested on humans only, then I'm sure that's what they would take. Whether people have been helped by Animal testing is irrelevent. Because we would have benefitted alot more by testing on Humans alone for medication that is intended for Human use. We have rapists, murderers, etc, that we could use to test on. We don't need to test on Animals, unless we're developing medication that is intended for an Animal.
well can someone else watch the video and see I'm right.

Anaisa
05-29-2006, 04:30 PM
If their was an option to take medication that was tested on humans only, then I'm sure that's what they would take.

Shows where their priorities lie, I would say.
There priority is stopping cruelty to Animals. Them not taking the medication would not do that.
well can someone else watch the video and see I'm right.Can you not just tell me what the video contains?

theundeadhero
05-29-2006, 05:14 PM
Did anyone else notice that the chick de-beaking was the same video played in a loop?

Every other food place does the same thing. PETA just hasn't made a video about it.

nik0tine
05-29-2006, 05:26 PM
does it matter if their tortured? there gonna die anyways
Did it matter that the jews were tortured in the Spanish inquisition? Most of them were going to die anyway.

Tifa's Real Lover(really
05-29-2006, 05:39 PM
does it matter if their tortured? there gonna die anyways
Did it matter that the jews were tortured in the Spanish inquisition? Most of them were going to die anyway.
doesnt matter, but it wouldnt be good to be those that survived

Roto13
05-29-2006, 05:51 PM
does it matter if their tortured? there gonna die anyways
Did it matter that the jews were tortured in the Spanish inquisition? Most of them were going to die anyway.
doesnt matter, but it wouldnt be good to be those that survived
By your logic, you'd just as soon die a slow, painful death as die peacefully in your sleep.

Fantasy Fan
05-29-2006, 05:59 PM
If their was an option to take medication that was tested on humans only, then I'm sure that's what they would take.

Shows where their priorities lie, I would say.
There priority is stopping cruelty to Animals. Them not taking the medication would not do that.
well can someone else watch the video and see I'm right.Can you not just tell me what the video contains?
Yeah, it's half an episode of Penn and Teller Bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif. Penn and Teller are entertainers and this series is about, well Bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif. they tell you things you might already believe to be true, and they say it's not with evidence and facts. Some of their episodes are: ESP, Circumcision, Alternative medicines, Self help classes, Alien abductions, and a lot of other stuff that aren't what they seem. PETA is one of them. It's like a "behind the scenes" series. here's another link (http://media.putfile.com/petaBS) in a different media.

and here's (http://maddox.xmission.com/hatemail.cgi) an article.

Roto13
05-29-2006, 06:03 PM
That link isn't working because the filter is replacing the second half of one word with the HTML tags for the skulls. Bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif. Just copy the link and replace the tags with the letters. I'm surprised nobody said anything until now.

nik0tine
05-29-2006, 06:05 PM
does it matter if their tortured? there gonna die anyways
Did it matter that the jews were tortured in the Spanish inquisition? Most of them were going to die anyway.
doesnt matter, but it wouldnt be good to be those that survived
Jesus.

Spiffing Cheese
05-29-2006, 06:06 PM
does it matter if their tortured? there gonna die anyways
Did it matter that the jews were tortured in the Spanish inquisition? Most of them were going to die anyway.
doesnt matter, but it wouldnt be good to be those that survived
Jesus.

Yes. Seriously, what?

Sylvie
05-29-2006, 06:06 PM
does it matter if their tortured? there gonna die anyways
:eep:

My feelings exactly, ff7+ff10 gurl... :eep:

bipper
05-29-2006, 06:08 PM
Well at the end of June, I will be grabbing chickents and hacking off their heads, defeathering them, and gutting them. My inlaws have done this for years, and its somthing I rolled into. Luckily chickens are very distant to pain, and thier not so pick with thier living conditions.

Also, think of the crap chickens go through in the wild - they rarely make it. Domesticated chickens have been dumbed down to the point where they can die by looking up when it rains, and they get water in thier mouth then drown. Its sad.

Bipper
Yeah,




and they eat thier own poo you know.

If you look at the world and the way that molecules rearange and one object fuses and breaks over time to become another, you will realize we all eat /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif. And who says God has no sense of humor - Good one, God.

Sweet Beloved
05-29-2006, 06:09 PM
Kentucky Chicken...Boy...and I live in Kentucky. XDDDD
Chicken isn't the greatest food, better a pet.
^_^

Anaisa
05-29-2006, 06:42 PM
If their was an option to take medication that was tested on humans only, then I'm sure that's what they would take.

Shows where their priorities lie, I would say.
There priority is stopping cruelty to Animals. Them not taking the medication would not do that.
well can someone else watch the video and see I'm right.Can you not just tell me what the video contains?
Yeah, it's half an episode of Penn and Teller Bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif. Penn and Teller are entertainers and this series is about, well Bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif. they tell you things you might already believe to be true, and they say it's not with evidence and facts. Some of their episodes are: ESP, Circumcision, Alternative medicines, Self help classes, Alien abductions, and a lot of other stuff that aren't what they seem. PETA is one of them. It's like a "behind the scenes" series. here's another link (http://media.putfile.com/petaBS) in a different media.

and here's (http://maddox.xmission.com/hatemail.cgi) an article.
That "article" is just some guys opinion on vegetarianism. In short he thinks there's no point to it. In short, that's exactly how I feel about his amateur deducing, an website.

Fonzie
05-29-2006, 06:53 PM
PETA actually makes me laugh sometimes. They throw pies at people and yell," FUR PIMP".

Fantasy Fan
05-29-2006, 06:55 PM
the fact is PETA sucks.

ZeZipster
05-29-2006, 08:21 PM
Why the hell is PETA being dragged into this? Everyone is making sweeping generalizations. Not liking KFC doesn't = being vegeterian which doesn't = being part of PETA.

Rye
05-29-2006, 08:24 PM
Why the hell is PETA being dragged into this? Everyone is making sweeping generalizations. Not liking KFC doesn't = being vegeterian which doesn't = being part of PETA.

Win.

Fantasy Fan
05-29-2006, 08:48 PM
Why the hell is PETA being dragged into this? Everyone is making sweeping generalizations. Not liking KFC doesn't = being vegeterian which doesn't = being part of PETA.
last time I checked, the video was by PETA. That's why I brought it up ;)


That link isn't working because the filter is replacing the second half of one word with the HTML tags for the skulls. Bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif. Just copy the link and replace the tags with the letters. I'm surprised nobody said anything until now.
try this (http://media.putfile.com/petaBS)

GhandiOwnsYou
05-29-2006, 08:53 PM
I love KFC. It is juicy and delicious. It's my firm belief that the more pain that is inflicted onto an animal the tastier it becomes for my human consumption. That's why i'm at the top of the freaking food chain, because i have the power and desire to destroy lesser beings for my own delicious consumption, in horribly painful and cruel ways.

How do you make a steak tastier? you beat it. With a mallet. it's called "tenderizing." More abuse = more flavor.

Then you take it, and you throw it on a grill and ritualistically burn and scar it over and over again, for 15 or 20 minutes at a time. MMMMMMMMMMMM juicy.

then you hack at it with a knife and fork, drag it through sauces and munch on it.

All KFC is doing is making sure i don't have to take the time to beat the hell out of my food before i can enjoy all of those juicy flavorful beak free chicken bites. They do the abusing, so you don't have to.

EAT CHICKEN. TASTES GOOD.

RPJesus
05-29-2006, 09:37 PM
It's a chicken for christssakes. It means nothing to me other than humans are on top of the food chain than a chicken. If you want to be an egotistical little bitch by going on strike against KFC because of how they process chicken food, that's your problem. It does nothing to me.
Yeah, I heard something like that once... it was some guy from quite a long time ago, 30s or 40s or something, had similar ideas- he thought some things were "better" than others, top of the food chain, as you said. Germans, I think he called them... and some other things were lower... wahat were they called? Tubes? No, Jews, that's it... I think so, yeah. He built some places, sort of like battery-farms, to, well,
"process" them. Similar operation, really- transported them there in crampt conditions- cattle trains, actually- then "processed" them in a rather painful manner. Of course, they were only Jews, not real people like the Germans, they didn't feel anything. They didn't eat them afterwards, of course- that's just gross. Burnt them, processed them for oils and stuff, actually put them in soapn and leather and stuff.

Not sure if that works as an analogy, but, to me, it really just seems like a matter of scale- you kill a chicken, you can kill a person. You're already killing for profit, so morality obviously doesn't eneter into it- if you can get away with it, and gain a profit, why not? Particularly if you, in your Superior Human Wisdom, deem that person to be less than you, "sub-human" as they called it.
Just something to think about.

Rye
05-29-2006, 09:38 PM
This thread depresses me beyond belief. :)

Roto13
05-29-2006, 10:01 PM
This thread depresses me beyond belief. :)
But you're smiling. :D

Brian The Pink Shark
05-29-2006, 10:15 PM
do we call that Rye humour then ? :choc:

Old Manus
05-29-2006, 10:20 PM
Comparing chicken farming to the holocaust is bad

Brian The Pink Shark
05-29-2006, 10:22 PM
Comparing chicken farming to the holocaust is bad

well its like a chicken holocaust :choc:

Shlup
05-29-2006, 11:02 PM
These are standard practices for factory farming chickens pretty much anywhere, not just for KFC.

I'm pretty sure if it's that awful here where I am the RSPCA would be onto them by now. I don't know if that goes on here or not though.
The laws for treatment of livestock only deals with their treatments effect on humans.

Peegee
05-30-2006, 12:00 AM
Law != morality though.

On topic, I couldn't care less what happens to the chickens. I've long held the opinion that the only way to be truly morally good is to starve to death or live off of water and plants that you've witnessed die (like apples falling off trees naturally).

I could be far more insensitive but there's no reason to be. I like KFC chicken :)

Shlup
05-30-2006, 12:04 AM
So the only options are to embrace cruelty for the sake of your crispy strips or starve. No middle ground, eh? Interesting.

Dignified Pauper
05-30-2006, 12:08 AM
my mouth is watering.

*insert stereo-typical comment about southern african americans and fried chicken here*

Wuggly Blight
05-30-2006, 12:32 AM
I wonder if some of these people have ever sat down by a pig and watched it, actually WATCH it in person being horribly mutliated. With thus "superior" race, if you are superior, why have you the need the make the "lesser" races suffer, Belive it or not, these races actually FEEL pain, shock! They may not go around driving cars but they actually do have lives, They didnt all evolve on this earth from tiny microbes to stuff peoples fat faces who think its hilarious animals went threw days of suffering so they can gorge on high fat food they shouldnt really be eating anyway.

KFC, I can say I dont eat there. And glad, Great company they are, even driving some of there own staff to suicide.

Roto13
05-30-2006, 12:36 AM
I wonder if some of these people have ever sat down by a pig and watched it, actually WATCH it in person being horribly mutliated. With thus "superior" race, if you are superior, why have you the need the make the "lesser" races suffer, Belive it or not, these races actually FEEL pain, shock! They may not go around driving cars but they actually do have lives, They didnt all evolve on this earth from tiny microbes to stuff peoples fat faces who think its hilarious animals went threw days of suffering so they can gorge on high fat food they shouldnt really be eating anyway.

KFC, I can say I dont eat there. And glad, Great company they are, even driving some of there own staff to suicide.
Actually, as far as fast-food chains go, KFC employees are pretty well-off. Decent pay, I think there's even a health plan.

Wuggly Blight
05-30-2006, 12:43 AM
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=2367312005

Roto13
05-30-2006, 12:45 AM
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=2367312005

Yes, and that's obviously indicative of all Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurants. :rolleyes2

Wuggly Blight
05-30-2006, 12:46 AM
There not as fantastic as you make them to be, beside the fact KFC protected those who drove her to death, It would seem the abuse doesnt end with Chickens.

Roto13
05-30-2006, 12:48 AM
There not as fantastic as you make them to be,
I never said they were fantastic, but, for the most part, the employees are better off working there than at McDonalds or some other fast food place.


beside the fact KFC protected those who drove her to death,

Proof. Now.

Wuggly Blight
05-30-2006, 12:50 AM
Read the papers. KFC refused to give names, sack the staff, or take action of ANY kind. They took a damn bullet to cover there asses.

Roto13
05-30-2006, 12:52 AM
Read the papers. KFC refused to give names, sack the staff, or take action of ANY kind. They took a damn bullet to cover there asses.

Proof. Now.

Dignified Pauper
05-30-2006, 12:53 AM
I wonder if some of these people have ever sat down by a pig and watched it, actually WATCH it in person being horribly mutliated. With thus "superior" race, if you are superior, why have you the need the make the "lesser" races suffer, Belive it or not, these races actually FEEL pain, shock! They may not go around driving cars but they actually do have lives, They didnt all evolve on this earth from tiny microbes to stuff peoples fat faces who think its hilarious animals went threw days of suffering so they can gorge on high fat food they shouldnt really be eating anyway.

KFC, I can say I dont eat there. And glad, Great company they are, even driving some of there own staff to suicide.


I watched my grandfather slaughter rabbits that we raised. It's gruesome and they are usually just 8-10 weeks old. Smacks them on the head with his hand a couple times, puts them into shock or breaks their neck, some are still alive when opened up. It's not terrible, and it doesn't matter. it's a rabbit.

Further, there's a difference between race (or breed) and species. A jack russel terrier and a boxer are different breeds (or races) of dogs... but not really. because there is only the species of human... and there are different species of animals like dogs... so really, it doesn't matter, they aren't a race is what i wanted to say.

Wuggly Blight
05-30-2006, 12:54 AM
Oh yeah, They really did give the infomation but the public secretly delted all tarces of it, and the high courts lied to save KFC. Dont take it out on me, KFC isnt as fantastic as you say.

Edit: Yeah there is only one bread of Human, the Homosapian, Obviously there used to be more breeds of human, e.g the Homoerectus.

Dignified Pauper
05-30-2006, 12:56 AM
there's no proof in your claim, and further, who cares, it's a chicken, which is a smart animals, but it's just a bird. we have tons, it's not like it's extinct. If we thought about how the chickens were being handled, and changed it to make it better, the price of food would go way up. I assure you, the chicken you buy in the store wrapped in celephane is prepared the same way.

Roto13
05-30-2006, 12:56 AM
Oh yeah, They really did give the infomation but the public secretly delted all tarces of it, and the high courts lied to save KFC. Dont take it out on me, KFC isnt as fantastic as you say

I never said they were fantastic, but, for the most part, the employees are better off working there than at McDonalds or some other fast food place.It's obvious to me that you can't back up what you say. You might want to work on that. Otherwise, you're just talking out of your ass.

Shlup
05-30-2006, 12:59 AM
The issue here is so diluted with other issues I wonder how many people here even know what the point of this thread was.

Wuggly Blight
05-30-2006, 01:04 AM
People laughing at the misery of animals to feed there fat face with high fat garbage as there is no other source of nurishment? Seems the KFC fans cant even handle the dark side of business.
Its all happy and dandy dispite the police enquiry and court findings with evidence and witnesses.

Think about this, if they could talk (I mean some form of human speach, they probably can to each other, this being they had the biological voice pattens we have to be capable of making speech) How many more bleeding heart groups would there be?

Dignified Pauper
05-30-2006, 01:06 AM
what is dark about eating. Animals kill animals in horrific ways all the time. Look at pirahnas that devour things within minutes.

look at a cat, it toys with its prey before killing it...

stop crying about it, it's not going to change if you like cheap chicken. and besides, chicken is good for you, it doesn't make you fat (well, KFC does, but its fried)

Roto13
05-30-2006, 01:07 AM
Think about this, if they could talk (I mean some form of human speach, they probably can to each other, this being they had the biological voice pattens we have to be capable of making speech)
Did you fail Biology in high school? Because most animals are only capable of sending very basic, instinctive messages to each other. Such as "I'm angry" or "let's smurf".

Elite Lord Sigma
05-30-2006, 01:09 AM
I started watching it, but I switched it off 40 seconds into it. I am NOT watching another second of that. It seems like this woman is making up random stuff. Ammonia fumes? What sane person would let ammonia fumes accumulate anywhere? Since it forms ammonia chloride (which can be fatal to humans) when combined with bleach, I fail to see why anybody would be shortsighted enough to let that in.

In short, I feel the video is total and utter rubbish.

Wuggly Blight
05-30-2006, 01:09 AM
Chicken doesnt make you fat KFC does. Its not healthy in ANY way. Do animals put each other in cages for 3 months and slowly debeak them and stuff them full of steriods? No they dont, its rather quick. Anyway unlike popular belief Pirhanas are not evil killer fish. They only eat pray when there driven by extreme hunger, and only if its very week and bleeding, its actually safe to swim with them.

Venom
05-30-2006, 01:13 AM
Chicken doesnt make you fat KFC does. Its not healthy in ANY way. Do animals put each other in cages for 3 months and slowly debeak them and stuff them full of steriods? No they dont, its rather quick. Anyway unlike popular belief Pirhanas are not evil killer fish. They only eat pray when there driven by extreme hunger, and only if its very week and bleeding, its actually safe to swim with them.

I fail miserably at seeing what Piranhas have to do with Chickens.

Elite Lord Sigma
05-30-2006, 01:13 AM
Chicken doesnt make you fat KFC does. Its not healthy in ANY way. Do animals put each other in cages for 3 months and slowly debeak them and stuff them full of steriods? No they dont, its rather quick. Anyway unlike popular belief Pirhanas are not evil killer fish. They only eat pray when there driven by extreme hunger, and only if its very week and bleeding, its actually safe to swim with them.

1. What do pirhanas have to do with this subject?

2. Most animals kill other animals for food. It's called the food cycle, also known as life in the wild.

3. No other animals have the mental and/or physical functions needed to do any of what you just said (except for debeaking, but the chicken would probably be long dead before then).

Wuggly Blight
05-30-2006, 01:14 AM
Because I was merely stating something about a point digified came up with, see, not all people see Igorance as bliss.

Anyway, we base animal intelligence on our own persons, they maywell have there own levels. We cant say with 100% accuracy how animals mindsets are. Maybe uri Geller. And because someone isnt smart they deserve to die in conditions I can't describe?

Elite Lord Sigma
05-30-2006, 01:22 AM
Because I was merely stating something about a point digified came up with, see, not all people see Igorance as bliss.

Anyway, we base animal intelligence on our own persons, they maywell have there own levels. We cant say with 100% accuracy how animals mindsets are. Maybe uri Geller. And because someone isnt smart they deserve to die in conditions I can't describe?

Let's pose a little rhetorical question. Suppose you were in the wilderness, and the only things you had were the clothes on your back and a hatchet. If you saw a rabbit, would you kill it and eat it? I know I would. It's called survival.

But anyway, it seems to me that some of what that woman said has no source for truth.

Wuggly Blight
05-30-2006, 01:24 AM
Your going of subject, this has NEVER been about eating meat and killing animals, this is the conditions they kill them in. She probably wasn't accurate on everything, but be fair, can all of us be right all the time?

Elite Lord Sigma
05-30-2006, 01:28 AM
Your going of subject, this has NEVER been about eating meat and killing animals, this is the conditions they kill them in. She probably wasn't accurate on everything, but be fair, can all of us be right all the time?

It's true that as living beings, we all have flaws. However, is there any point to this conversation seeing how the chickens will be all killed sooner or later? If there was any written proof to back up her claims (most of which I find to sound exaggerative), I may see some more credibility in your argument.

Roto13
05-30-2006, 01:29 AM
She probably wasn't accurate on everything, but be fair, can all of us be right all the time?When you're making a slanderous video like that one, you'd better be damn sure that you're celebrity spokesperson is "right".

Wuggly Blight
05-30-2006, 01:32 AM
I eat meat sure, Animal right protesters outside labs actually pee mee of royalty, Im against it sure, but they really bug me. Im not to bothered about them being killed, for food, we are Omivores, we eat meat. Its how its done, thats what this is about really. Im not going to research everything she says, she may be reading reports from other people, but the point she was trying to bring across is does it matter how we get our food? Painfull or painless?



She probably wasn't accurate on everything, but be fair, can all of us be right all the time?When you're making a slanderous video like that one, you'd better be damn sure that you're celebrity spokesperson is "right".

Ill qoute you next thread scince everything you say is right, and nothing you every say is wrong.

Roto13
05-30-2006, 01:36 AM
She probably wasn't accurate on everything, but be fair, can all of us be right all the time?When you're making a slanderous video like that one, you'd better be damn sure that you're celebrity spokesperson is "right".

Ill qoute you next threat scince everything you say is right, and nothing you every say is wrong.
I don't even have a view here, you know. Just that KFC employees are well off. You're the one who's talking without backing anything up.

Wuggly Blight
05-30-2006, 01:38 AM
Im NOT downloading court minutes for your pleasure. It happened. It was in court, there was witnesses, evidence and drugs. Its offical and in records.
For someone with no view your getting awfully protective and in your delelted posts abusive.

Edit: Bloody typos.

Roto13
05-30-2006, 01:40 AM
Im NOT downloading court minutes for your pleasure. It happened. It was in court, there was witnesses, evidence and drugs. Its offical and in records.

Proof. Now.Don't bring it up if you're not prepared to back it up.

Elite Lord Sigma
05-30-2006, 01:40 AM
Im NOT downloading court minutes for your pleasure. It happened. It was in court, there was witnesses, evidence and drugs. Its offical and in records.
For someone with no view your getting awfully protective and in your delelted posts abusive.

Edit: Bloody typos.

I think roto made it painfully clear what his view is. Also, do you have a source for that court trial?

Wuggly Blight
05-30-2006, 01:41 AM
Talking to a wall... Im not driving up to Manchester to get court minutes it happened. Deal with it.

Edit... again...: A girl DID commit sucide, she has a grave and everything, and KFC WAS a significant factor in its ruling, it happened, you can evidence of the ruling by this wonderful thing called Google. Getting side tracked here arn't we?

Elite Lord Sigma
05-30-2006, 01:42 AM
Talking to a wall... Im not driving up to Manchester to get court minutes it happened. Deal with it.

Would there be a reason why you can't defend your own argument? Can't you simply find an article about it on the Internet?

Wuggly Blight
05-30-2006, 01:45 AM
There... is tonnes... listen... for the love of GOD listen...
You can deny this girl died all you want if helps you keep the image of KFC as a saintly business.

Google.... is your friend...

Roto13
05-30-2006, 01:47 AM
There... is tonnes... listen... for the love of GOD listen...
You can deny this girl died all you want if helps you keep the image of KFC as a saintly business.

Google.... is your friend...
Why should I do research to support your arguments?

Fonzie
05-30-2006, 01:49 AM
I had KFC today... don't hate me because i'm human(and i like to eat things bad for me).

Elite Lord Sigma
05-30-2006, 01:50 AM
There... is tonnes... listen... for the love of GOD listen...
You can deny this girl died all you want if helps you keep the image of KFC as a saintly business.

Google.... is your friend...
Why should I do research to support your arguments?

Seconded. Wuggly, if you want me to take you seriously, you'd link me to that article.

Wuggly Blight
05-30-2006, 01:51 AM
Because your denying a fact. It happened. Deal with it. Its not even a argument, its a statement. I really cant be bothered, really, its late, and all I get "There was no girl! the court lied! the registers lied! her parents lied!" From someone who cant even kepe to the orignal fact, chickens ARE abused at KFC, we even went back to topic and you went off with abusive posts you susqeuntly deleted.

Its in every uk newspapers, under history. Most even keep records, there that nice. See, Igorance isnt bliss.

Roto13
05-30-2006, 01:54 AM
Because your denying a fact. It happened. Deal with it. Its not even a argument, its a statement. I really cant be bothered, really, its late, and all I get "There was no girl! the court lied! the registers lied! her parents lied!" From someone who cant even kepe to the orignal fact, chickens ARE abused at KFC, we even went back to topic and you went off with abusive posts you susqeuntly deleted.

Its in very uk newspapers, under history.
That's not what I'm saying at all. Pay attention. I'm saying that I'm skeptical that KFC as a corporation protected these people and "took a damn bullet to cover their asses" and you're not doing anything to prove it.

Elite Lord Sigma
05-30-2006, 01:54 AM
Because your denying a fact. It happened. Deal with it. Its not even a argument, its a statement. I really cant be bothered, really, its late, and all I get "There was no girl! the court lied! the registers lied! her parents lied!" From someone who cant even kepe to the orignal fact, chickens ARE abused at KFC, we even went back to topic and you went off with abusive posts you susqeuntly deleted.

Its in every uk newspapers, under history. Most even keep records, there that nice. See, Igorance isnt bliss.

I never said that I thought what you are saying is false. It's just that you're giving no evidence to back up what you're saying. And I never said the court case never happened. I'm starting to think you're not even reading my or roto's posts, and that you're being completely unreasonable.

Miriel
05-30-2006, 02:29 AM
I stopped eating at KFC long ago along with most fast food places.












But I can't deny that their new mashed potato bowl thingys make me want to start eating there again. *shame* :(

Markus. D
05-30-2006, 02:38 AM
Mashies = tasty.


still... Maccas all the way.

Sylvie
05-30-2006, 02:53 AM
Jeez... you guys are still talking about this?

Its not that big of deal, Dorothy just explains it in a harsh, sick, and taunting way. I feel for the chickens, but hey, thats the food chain.

Mirage
05-30-2006, 02:58 AM
OdinDragon scores 5 points.

Sylvie
05-30-2006, 03:14 AM
Seriously, Dorothy is great and all on the Golden Girls, but she elaborates it to a sickening degree... it wouldn't be so bad if you turned your volume down.

41-Inches-Wide
05-30-2006, 04:59 AM
*converts to veganism OMG*

Dignified Pauper
05-30-2006, 05:08 AM
For the record, pirahnas are very territorial and go into a frenzy at the scent of blood. It is vicious and much worse than what they do to those chickens.


Further, the ammonia fumes is from bird droppings.


even further, what about animals, especially felines, that play with their pray, torturing it before killing it?

Your argument doesn't matter because chickens don't matter when there are millions of them.

As far as I can see it, I'm perfectly fine with cannabalism and would like some salt to eat you with!

hardboiled
05-30-2006, 05:49 AM
The mashed potatoes are still good


or are the potatoes inhumanely treated?

Shlup
05-30-2006, 06:09 AM
Piranhas and cats have nothing to do with factory farming practices. The amount of chickens there are in the world has nothing to do with factory farming practices. The food chain has nothing to do with factory farming practices.

If you think eating meat is fine, then that's fine with me. But if you think treating chickens like that is okay because "it's the food chain," because "other animals are mean to other animals," because "there are bigger problems than chickens so lets just not do anything," or because we can, then you just plain suck fat choad.

farplaner
05-30-2006, 06:18 AM
I am somewhat of an empathic kind of guy; I feel bad for the chickens. I wouldn't want to endure what they do. I am sure efforts could be taken to "reduce their suffering..."

On the other hand suffering is a part of life- a part of nature, as others have pointed out. Too bad for the chickens, and cows, and pigs, and all the other (tasty) life on the planet who can't defend themselves against us...

To quote M. J. Keenan: "life feeds on life, feeds on life, feeds on life..."
no explanations, no apologies.

Dignified Pauper
05-30-2006, 06:21 AM
if turkey tasted as good as chickens, i would promote KFT.

Turkeys are stupid... Turkeys can drown themselves in rain... by staring at the sky. LAME

Zell's Fists of Fury
05-30-2006, 06:54 AM
They're going to keep killing chickens no matter if I eat there or not. So, it's chow time.

Shlup
05-30-2006, 06:55 AM
I don't think they're going to keep killing chickens if people aren't eating them, Spiff.

Zell's Fists of Fury
05-30-2006, 06:56 AM
People are going to eat there regardless if I eat there or not. So, it's chow time.

Shlup
05-30-2006, 06:58 AM
That's just... so stupid I don't even have a response.

Zell's Fists of Fury
05-30-2006, 07:01 AM
But it's true.
I'm just saying that my decision to not eat there isn'tgoing to do /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif, because there are 45 million other people out there who don't give a rat's ass about chickens, no matter what Bea Arthuer says.

And they all watch NASCAR.

NeoCracker
05-30-2006, 07:03 AM
Its very tempting to make a joke with a sweeping generalization of black people and fried chicken right now, but I know someone would get offended and jump down my throat.

Anyway, they should do something to reduce the suffering. I wouldn't go as far as to boycott them, even if I did like there food, too greasy tasting for me. Make sure the Voltage will kill off their senses for one. And make sure they are less cramped in living spaces.

Also, I don't like the Extremists of PETA, a lot of them are okay, but some of these extremists are worse than the people doing things to the Chickens. Like throwing animal blood on people to express there points, though it doesn't happen often, only a few cases and not as bad as southpark portrayed it to be, as funny as that episode was.

Also, while i don't think animal suffering should be ignored, less money and effort should be put towards that to fix starving people and reduce human suffering.

Zell's Fists of Fury
05-30-2006, 07:09 AM
Also, KFC is disgusting and gives me diarreah.
Why anyone would eat there in the first place is beyond me.
And Shlup is terrible at giving me reactions I want. :mad2:

Anaisa
05-30-2006, 08:00 AM
For the record, pirahnas are very territorial and go into a frenzy at the scent of blood. It is vicious and much worse than what they do to those chickens. It's not much worse than what is done to Chickens. Chickens can be left suffering in those places for a long period of time. A bleeding Animal that ends up in the water with Piranhas, is going to die within a short space of time.



even further, what about animals, especially felines, that play with their pray, torturing it before killing it?

Your argument doesn't matter because chickens don't matter when there are millions of them.

As far as I can see it, I'm perfectly fine with cannabalism and would like some salt to eat you with!
It's funny how the argument for eating Animals is that we are above them so we have the right. But as soon as the question of cruelly torturing them comes up, suddenly people want to compare themselves to Animals. There are billions of people, does that mean that you don't think we shouldn't prosecute murderers because it doesn't matter, there are billions of us?

Dignified Pauper
05-30-2006, 08:38 AM
yes

boris no no
05-30-2006, 10:16 AM
I'm not going to read all this thread as I'm sure its full of a lot of self rightous poo from many people. Plus anyone with an onze of brain must know that to maintain the high stock they have to have many animals living together. Also you have your food cheap, they keep the animals cheaply.
If you have a problem with it you should not eat ANY fast food as they treat the animals the same anywhere.

Malboro_Menace
05-30-2006, 11:22 AM
I'm not going to read all of these pages because it's too much. But here's what I've got to say.


For the record, pirahnas are very territorial and go into a frenzy at the scent of blood. It is vicious and much worse than what they do to those chickens.

Thats a natural event though. An animal being hunted by a predator is supposed to happen. 5+ chickens all stuck in a little cage causing the legs to decompose is not right. No matter what arguement you may raise its not natural or right.


even further, what about animals, especially felines, that play with their pray, torturing it before killing it? Your argument doesn't matter because chickens don't matter when there are millions of them. As far as I can see it, I'm perfectly fine with cannabalism and would like some salt to eat you with!

Mate are you stupid? There are billions of us. But do we farm humans like that? No. We could. And that would solve world hunger now wouldn't it? And don't give me some crap like "but they're humans" . We are not above animals. Just like I'm not above you. We have bigger brains. That's all.

Just thought I'd have my say. Oh BTW I'm studying to become a veteranarian :p

Crop
05-30-2006, 12:38 PM
Sad yeah but not eating it isnt going to help. I love KFC, in fact im eating some tonight. Finger licking good!

Madame Adequate
05-30-2006, 01:15 PM
Thats a natural event though. An animal being hunted by a predator is supposed to happen. 5+ chickens all stuck in a little cage causing the legs to decompose is not right. No matter what arguement you may raise its not natural or right.

But the internet, that is natural, yes?

Roto13
05-30-2006, 01:18 PM
Thats a natural event though. An animal being hunted by a predator is supposed to happen. 5+ chickens all stuck in a little cage causing the legs to decompose is not right. No matter what arguement you may raise its not natural or right.

But the internet, that is natural, yes?
You're going to compare suffering to a information medium? Are you ok?

Madame Adequate
05-30-2006, 01:20 PM
Thats a natural event though. An animal being hunted by a predator is supposed to happen. 5+ chickens all stuck in a little cage causing the legs to decompose is not right. No matter what arguement you may raise its not natural or right.

But the internet, that is natural, yes?
You're going to compare suffering to a information medium? Are you ok?

I'm going to decimate any argument which rests on the precepts of things being 'natural' (And that by being natural, they are right).

Roto13
05-30-2006, 01:27 PM
Alright, let's edit that quote a little bit, then.


5+ chickens all stuck in a little cage causing the legs to decompose is not right. No matter what arguement you may raise its not natural or right.

Now what? Treat those as two seperate thoughts.

Madame Adequate
05-30-2006, 03:19 PM
Mate are you stupid? There are billions of us. But do we farm humans like that? No. We could. And that would solve world hunger now wouldn't it? And don't give me some crap like "but they're humans" . We are not above animals. Just like I'm not above you. We have bigger brains. That's all.

Just thought I'd have my say. Oh BTW I'm studying to become a veteranarian :p

Yes, we are above animals. Good grief. Do you see animals composing epic poems in long form? Do you see animals composing orchestral symphonies? Do you see animals painting masterworks? No, no, and no. We are better than animals, and until they have language, arts, culture, politics, and philosophy*, we will remain better than animals.

*I'm aware that some animals can learn Human languages, and a couple have their own languages - one out of five ain't good enough.


Now what? Treat those as two seperate thoughts.

I agree with that part of it. I don't think it's right to be unecessarily cruel. I just hate the 'natural' card, because 90% of the modern world is unnatural in form, function, or composition. Or all three.

Old Manus
05-30-2006, 05:08 PM
Milf knows the score.

Dignified Pauper
05-30-2006, 06:28 PM
humans are a direct form of nature and life. We just are above the animals on earth because we developed the highest form of sentience. There is nothing un-natural about anything man-made because man is a part of nature itself.

Yamaneko
05-30-2006, 06:44 PM
Would a species of higher intellect than homo sapiens have the right by nature to kill off humanity for their own gains?

Shlup
05-30-2006, 07:27 PM
And Shlup is terrible at giving me reactions I want. :mad2:
If you wanna act a fool that's on you. :choc2:

Anaisa
05-30-2006, 07:54 PM
Yes, we are above animals. Good grief. Do you see animals composing epic poems in long form? Do you see animals composing orchestral symphonies? Do you see animals painting masterworks? No, no, and no. We are better than animals, and until they have language, arts, culture, politics, and philosophy*, we will remain better than animals.
Orchestral symphonies, Animals can also make noises that they find appealing. Politics, Animals that live in groups have politics. Language, they have their own ways of communicating with each other. Philosophy, Animals have their own ethics and conduct that they live by that varys between species. An on the subject of artwork an the like, they have their own forms of art, an things they find visually pleasing.

RPJesus
05-30-2006, 09:08 PM
Comparing chicken farming to the holocaust is bad
Chickens and holocaust victims are/were (confused!) kept in very similar conditions. The holocaust is almost unbearably disgusting, so why not with these chickens?


Piranhas and cats have nothing to do with factory farming practices. The amount of chickens there are in the world has nothing to do with factory farming practices. The food chain has nothing to do with factory farming practices.

If you think eating meat is fine, then that's fine with me. But if you think treating chickens like that is okay because "it's the food chain," because "other animals are mean to other animals," because "there are bigger problems than chickens so lets just not do anything," or because we can, then you just plain suck fat choad.
Right. :)

Also, one argument is that it's cheaper. That's part of the reason it's so bad. They don't treat animals thta way because it's the only way to do it. They do it because it's saves money and effort. They're greedy bastards. People will do anything if it makes them a profit. They really will.
Having them treated better might mean the food is more expensive, but I'd honestly say it's worth it. It's just as greedy to value that little bit extra money over those animals.



Yes, we are above animals. Good grief. Do you see animals composing epic poems in long form? Do you see animals composing orchestral symphonies? Do you see animals painting masterworks? No, no, and no. We are better than animals, and until they have language, arts, culture, politics, and philosophy*, we will remain better than animals.

Can mentally retarded people? Can they do much that we can? No? And what about the ones that can't even manage what animals can? So lets just kill them! They're below us! And, look, we're back to the holocaust.

Jojee
05-30-2006, 10:19 PM
I find it interesting how people keep saying that we are superior to other animals ^^ If so, shouldn't we hold that true to ourselves morally, too? Animals in the wild kill other animals in painful ways to eat them (although it doesn't compare to what some humans do to animals), but aren't we 'superior'? We obviously have the intellectual capacity to realize that animals feel pain, that pain = bad, and most of us feel that torturing others and making them feel pain is morally/ethically wrong as well. We don't only have our teeth and claws to kill animals, either; we are in every way capable of killing quickly so that they will feel minimal pain. So why are we comparing ourselves to animals in the wild, who need to kill and eat to survive and does that in the only way they 'know' how?

If you eat meat, okay. If you torture animals in the process of getting your meat, not okay. I eat meat, and I would be willing to pay more for my chicken. I'm a college student and I don't feel that I would starve and become broke if the price of meat rose. Most Americans/people in developed countries eat much more meat than is healthy for them, anyway. Eating a bit less or not going to fast food restaurants as much really won't hurt you at all; in fact, it will probably do the opposite.


On a different matter, am I missing something here? o_O;; Why can't they just simply behead the chicken? *blinks*

Anaisa
05-30-2006, 10:57 PM
And I'm sure there will be those veggie lovers saying that we shouldn't eat any meat and blah blah blah.....they just don't know what they're missing ;)
I'm sure the majority of vegetarians here haven't been vegetarians since birth, so they will be well aware of what their "missing".

Jojee
05-30-2006, 11:11 PM
1. There are TONS of people on here that simply cannot spell. Maybe due to people being from all over the world, but any english speaking peple should be ashamed of their spelling skills. (BTW the national spelling bee will be on TV soon, some may want to tune in) English should be capitalized, go capitalization rules ;) Also, *people.

And secondly, age is starting to show. Most of the posts I've read saying "poor chickens" are from people like 15 and under. Ironically, these will be the same people working at KFC later in life to pay for college. Are the practices cruel? SURE but these chickens were manufactured for this purpose. You think that the meat in the grocery store comes from some guy who used a velvet covered knife to cut the things head off? Oh please, I'm in college, Shlup is like, <i>ancient</i>, and there's plenty of people over the age of fifteen who think that torturing animals is wrong. ;) And yeah, I'm sure that as people grow older and mature, they lose their sense of sympathy. Don't play that game. :tongue:
It sort of makes me wonder when people say, "Yeah, what we do is cruel, but it's getting me cheaper meat so who cares?"

NeoCracker
05-30-2006, 11:48 PM
Yes, we are above animals. Good grief. Do you see animals composing epic poems in long form? Do you see animals composing orchestral symphonies? Do you see animals painting masterworks? No, no, and no. We are better than animals, and until they have language, arts, culture, politics, and philosophy*, we will remain better than animals.
Orchestral symphonies, Animals can also make noises that they find appealing. Politics, Animals that live in groups have politics. Language, they have their own ways of communicating with each other. Philosophy, Animals have their own ethics and conduct that they live by that varys between species. An on the subject of artwork an the like, they have their own forms of art, an things they find visually pleasing.

One, there is a difference between pleasing noises and music. Rain hitting my tin roof is a pleasing noise, but hardly orcastrated music made with thought.

Two, as far as I know animal polotics arn't as complex as humans. Sometimes its instinct based, some animals its the biggest gnarliest thing in their midst, however there can be exceptions to this. Can't think of any on the top of my head though.

Also, Communication and language are two different things. I could run up to someone, grunt angrily and hit them with a club and that would communicate dislike, but thats hardly the same as Language.

While they do have ethics of sorts, they still act on instinct moreso then humans, meaning their own morals are most likely weaker than humans.

And as for art, see my example on music. what they are cabable of is obviously much more basic than humans, even the most intelligent animals couldn't hope to create well known master pieces like the last supper, the sisteen chapel, or even random paintings by unknown artists in local museums.

While some things need to change, we are in fact above animals.

Dreddz
05-31-2006, 12:13 AM
It dosent matter if we are superior to other animals, we have no right to treat them how we do, we have no right to even kill them...

Evastio
05-31-2006, 12:23 AM
Don't tell me other fast food companies do that. :whaaa:

Anaisa
05-31-2006, 12:28 AM
One, there is a difference between pleasing noises and music. Rain hitting my tin roof is a pleasing noise, but hardly orcastrated music made with thought.Animals can make noise with thought behind it. The concept of an Animal making a noise which pleases it, is the same as us making noise which pleases us, music if you like.


Two, as far as I know animal polotics arn't as complex as humans. Sometimes its instinct based, some animals its the biggest gnarliest thing in their midst, however there can be exceptions to this. Can't think of any on the top of my head though.Their politics are as complex as required.
Communication and language are two different things. I could run up to someone, grunt angrily and hit them with a club and that would communicate dislike, but thats hardly the same as Language.Language is just a form of communication. If you said to somebody that you were angry with them, or made a noise that let them know you were angry with them, it wouldn't really matter which way you did it, you're still making the same feeling known.
While they do have ethics of sorts, they still act on instinct moreso then humans, meaning their own morals are most likely weaker than humans. There are so many different species of Animal with different sets of morals that it would vary. But considering the vast majority of Humans think their so far above Animals yet treat Animals the way they do, this just stands to contradict their whole point.


And as for art, see my example on music. what they are cabable of is obviously much more basic than humans, even the most intelligent animals couldn't hope to create well known master pieces like the last supper, the sisteen chapel, or even random paintings by unknown artists in local museums. It is only a fact that we are above Animals in status. Whether we are above them in worth is a matter of opinion, not a fact. We do the best with our capabilities, an they do the best with theirs. If they were exactly the same as us they wouldn't be Animals, they'd be Humans. Personally if asked what I thought was more striking, the painting of the last supper, or a Tiger, I'd say the Tiger.

DarkLadyNyara
05-31-2006, 12:38 AM
Orchestral symphonies, Animals can also make noises that they find appealing. Politics, Animals that live in groups have politics. Language, they have their own ways of communicating with each other. Philosophy, Animals have their own ethics and conduct that they live by that varys between species. An on the subject of artwork an the like, they have their own forms of art, an things they find visually pleasing.

Riiiight... While I will grant that some animals do have a great deal of intelligence, I have a hard time buying the arguement that chickens have art and philosophy. :rolleyes2 While I do agree with treating animals humanely, I don't agree with elevating them to the status of humans.

Anaisa
05-31-2006, 12:43 AM
Orchestral symphonies, Animals can also make noises that they find appealing. Politics, Animals that live in groups have politics. Language, they have their own ways of communicating with each other. Philosophy, Animals have their own ethics and conduct that they live by that varys between species. An on the subject of artwork an the like, they have their own forms of art, an things they find visually pleasing.

Riiiight... While I will grant that some animals do have a great deal of intelligence, I have a hard time buying the arguement that chickens have art and philosophy. :rolleyes2 While I do agree with treating animals humanely, I don't agree with elevating them to the status of humans.
I never claimed Chickens had art an philosophy. I said Animals. But of course Chickens do have philosophy. Chickens have their own set of ethics. That's all a philosophy is. It's not complex.

Dignified Pauper
05-31-2006, 12:49 AM
It dosent matter if we are superior to other animals, we have no right to treat them how we do, we have no right to even kill them...


then that means animals who are equal to eachother have no right to kill eachother, so therefor, they are guilty and should be punished to death and then their carcasses used for food. mmmm bear meat.

this thread is pointless. Especially since I debated the philosophy of animals and the ethical treatment of back in winter in EoEO.

Animals don't have philosophy because they cannot comprehend ideas. They run on instinct (one could say that humans run on instinct, which is true), where-as humans run by instinct and reason. there is reason to mass produce food, it's cheaper. who cares if its inhumane for chickens. If we notice, humane come from human, so of course it should be inhumane treating because they are not humans. Case in point, you're wrong. if you want to advocate vegatarianism or veganism, then grow your own crops, do not use pesticides, and do everything you can to save every animal because no death, besides old age, is "humane"

Anaisa
05-31-2006, 01:12 AM
then that means animals who are equal to eachother have no right to kill eachother, so therefor, they are guilty and should be punished to death and then their carcasses used for food. mmmm bear meat.No, that's not what it means. Animals don't have the food available to them that we do. There are only certain foods they are capable of eating. That's not the case for us.


this thread is pointless. Especially since I debated the philosophy of animals and the ethical treatment of back in winter in EoEO. If we were to dispose of every thread that contains something that had already been discussed, how many topics would we have left to talk about?


Animals don't have philosophy because they cannot comprehend ideas. They run on instinct (one could say that humans run on instinct, which is true), where-as humans run by instinct and reason. there is reason to mass produce food, it's cheaper. who cares if its inhumane for chickens. If we notice, humane come from human, so of course it should be inhumane treating because they are not humans. Case in point, you're wrong. if you want to advocate vegatarianism or veganism, then grow your own crops, do not use pesticides, and do everything you can to save every animal because no death, besides old age, is "humane"Animals do not just run on instinct. An that's not just an opinion, it's a fact. It's documented in enough Animal books, wildlife programmes, etc that it is blatantly obvious that's not the case. It would be cheaper for us all to be vegetarians than it is for us all to eat meat. The word humane is not only exclusively to be used to refer to humans, you don't need to take my word for it, look in the dictionary. We don't all have the land to grow our own crops.

Sylvie
05-31-2006, 01:32 AM
It dosent matter if we are superior to other animals, we have no right to treat them how we do, we have no right to even kill them...

Uh... YEAH we do... If we didn't kill animals we'd be dead. Its as simple as that. We cannot live off of fruit and veggies, so don't go there.

Peegee
05-31-2006, 01:44 AM
A few random thoughts, with quotes even though nobody actually said them. Just the ideas.

Except for the first one


So either you starve or you eat and are a monster. No middle ground eh?

Apparently not, as far as I'm concerned. The argument goes that causing things to die, whether animal or plants, is bad and could be argued as such and agreed upon by most people. Causing pain being bad is an iffy statement to make because plants can't (as far as we know) feel pain and braindead people can't feel pain either, so you can see the problems that come along.

As I put it: Something has to die in order for humans to eat. That sounds pretty terrible doesn't it? Of course we don't see it as terrible because if we did we'd all be moral monsters and would decide to starve.

So we say 'middle ground', or other terms to make it okay. I simply refuse to see it that way. Call it dualism or whatever. I just can't justify it.

But yes, I can justify 'if you eat you are evil'. It probably doesn't logically work out. I should try to bring it up in an environmental ethics class...assuming I'll ever take one or go back to school.


People are going to eat meat / KFC / plants / humans anyway

And people are going to do crimes and the like too. Doesn't make it okay.


We're better than animals. Ergo we can eat them

Our moral justifications and argumental basis for arguing that humans have x or y moral right are based upon our ability to be sentient. By the same token animals (and plants to lesser and varying degrees) can be argued to have the same faculties and consequently the same rule applies to them. That's simply the basis of my argument and why the above quote doesn't work.

--

Essentially at some point you have to justify killing life in order to eat. How you do that is up to you, but it seems to me that no justification is good enough. Essentially the idea of morality and consistency both work against us in this regard.

So why do I eat animals? I do it because I am immoral and choose to be. You seem to choose to be moral which is fine, but can't get around the idea that life dies so you can live.

So you make it less destructive (I eat animals that aren't tortured) and now it's okay. Fine. I'm not judging you, but I will point out my argument until somebody argues properly against it :)

hardboiled
05-31-2006, 04:25 AM
Buckethead feels bad for the chickens!!!

Stop eating the best tasting protein laden food we can eat, NOW!!! Save the chickens!


Now that is some revolutionary sloganing right there. Civil rights, eat your heart out.

Madame Adequate
05-31-2006, 04:55 AM
Would a species of higher intellect than homo sapiens have the right by nature to kill off humanity for their own gains?

That depends on whether they are merely more scientifically advanced, and have greater intellects as individuals, or whether they actually possess different mental capacities. A species with an average IQ of ten more than Humanity's average IQ? No. A species which possesses telekinesis? Yes.

Alternatively, you could say that once you have the five things I listed, you qualify for equal treatment. I'm still working that idea out, so until I do we'll go with the other one.


Uh... YEAH we do... If we didn't kill animals we'd be dead. Its as simple as that. We cannot live off of fruit and veggies, so don't go there.

Not true. A vegetarian diet is a viable choice. Edit: Many doctors actually consider it healthier than a meat-inclusive diet.



We're better than animals. Ergo we can eat them

Our moral justifications and argumental basis for arguing that humans have x or y moral right are based upon our ability to be sentient. By the same token animals (and plants to lesser and varying degrees) can be argued to have the same faculties and consequently the same rule applies to them. That's simply the basis of my argument and why the above quote doesn't work.

Not sentient. All beings are sentient. Plants are sentient. For that matter we can manufacture sentient beings. Sensory input is sentience. The term you are looking for is sapient, and a lot of creatures exhibit a lot of variability when it comes to sapience. Sapience is actual thought, the ability to act with judgement (as opposed to instinct).

And yes if a 'Human' is so severely disabled that they can't be said to be sapient, they're a lower order of life.

Cloud_omnislash_Strife
05-31-2006, 05:29 AM
Comparing chicken farming to the holocaust is bad

well its like a chicken holocaust :choc:
what if theres chicken over population

Shlup
05-31-2006, 05:57 AM
Most of the posts I've read saying "poor chickens" are from people like 15 and under. Ironically, these will be the same people working at KFC later in life to pay for college. Are the practices cruel? SURE but these chickens were manufactured for this purpose. You think that the meat in the grocery store comes from some guy who used a velvet covered knife to cut the things head off? Oh please, I'm in college, Shlup is like, <i>ancient</i>, and there's plenty of people over the age of fifteen who think that torturing animals is wrong. ;)You're so sweet, Bojojobo. xP

Anyway, this thread is stupid because almost everyone posting in it is retarded. If I didn't have four term papers due in the next two weeks I'd go nuts on all ya'll but suffice it to say that torturing animals because we can or because we want to or because everyone else does it so you may as well too or because cheaper is worth it or because we have to kill something in order to live so may as well torture living animals ro whatever is stupid and lame and makes you all bad people. That's right. I went there. If you think factory farming is justified then you are a bad person. A bad bad person. Fuck shoes.

rubah
05-31-2006, 06:35 AM
We don't all have the land to grow our own crops.
You could make a rooftop garden.

Or get together with a bunch of other people and make victory gardens. or get a pot of water and do some hydroponics in a window sill.

Anaisa
05-31-2006, 12:19 PM
We don't all have the land to grow our own crops.
You could make a rooftop garden.

Or get together with a bunch of other people and make victory gardens. or get a pot of water and do some hydroponics in a window sill.
I really don't have sufficient land to make enough food to feed myself. I don't even have enough time to tend to that sort of thing.

Fantasy Fan
05-31-2006, 12:29 PM
is this thing still going on?

KFC does NOT do that because KFC is fast food restaurant. The production farms they get the chicken from might do that, but you can never be too sure with PETA.

Dreddz
05-31-2006, 12:39 PM
It dosent matter if we are superior to other animals, we have no right to treat them how we do, we have no right to even kill them...

Uh... YEAH we do... If we didn't kill animals we'd be dead. Its as simple as that. We cannot live off of fruit and veggies, so don't go there.
Then how do vegetarians live ?


It dosent matter if we are superior to other animals, we have no right to treat them how we do, we have no right to even kill them...
then that means animals who are equal to eachother have no right to kill eachother, so therefor, they are guilty and should be punished to death and then their carcasses used for food. mmmm bear meat.
But we know better than other animals, we have a decision to not eat meat, animals dont know any better and wont change..

Fantasy Fan
05-31-2006, 12:52 PM
you are what you eat.
Vegetarians become skinny, green, stupid and defensless.
Meat eaters become big, powerful, intelligent and brown (tanned).

what would you be?

Anaisa
05-31-2006, 01:01 PM
is this thing still going on?

KFC does NOT do that because KFC is fast food restaurant. The production farms they get the chicken from might do that, but you can never be too sure with PETA.
There is no fast food restaurant without food. Where does KFC get the "food", the slaughter house. KFC an the slaughter house are in business together. Fantasy Fan


you are what you eat.
Vegetarians become skinny, green, stupid and defensless.
Meat eaters become big, powerful, intelligent and brown (tanned).

what would you be? :laugh: By your theory you'd be a Vegetarian!

Fantasy Fan
05-31-2006, 01:04 PM
and can you prove that? I doubt the slaughter houses do that because they have no reason to. It doesn't make sense.

crazybayman
05-31-2006, 01:07 PM
Humans - top of the food chain
Chickens - not top of the food chain

Therefore we eat chicken. Just like we boil Lobsters live. Just like a bear eats a Salmon, while its still alive.

Granted, treating chickens, or any other animal like was seen in the video is wrong, and considered inhumane. I haven't taken the time to read through this entire thread, but it drives me absolutely insane to hear people say we have no right to kill animals.

Its no one's "right" to kill for food - its just nature, the survival of the fittest. Its the way the ecosystem has evolved. The Shark eats the smaller fish. We eat anything that breathes, basically.

We are omnivores. Not herbivores, nor carnivores. We need both vegetation, and meat to survive.

I don't usually eat KFC, because its absolute crap, too greasy and bad for you. However, I'm not about to stop eating chicken just because they hire a bunch of hooligans to process the poultry. I'm sure the farms KFC gets their chicken from aren't the only ones to treat chickens that way.

I've heard that the local Henery (or chicken farm, whatever you want to call it), had to fire a bunch of workers, because they were kicking around the chickens, basically playing soccer with them. And they process chickens for the products you buy in the super market. This sort of inhumane treatment happens everywhere, all the time. And I'm not about to become a vegetarian *shudder*, or even stop just eating chicken, or even their products because of this. Its pointless.

so if you want to stop eating KFC, just because of Bea Arthur's latest campaign to save the animals, you might as well stop eating all chicken - no, all meat that you didn't kill yourself, including beef, because it comes from a slaughter house, and you can rest assured that those poor ol' cows don't get royal treatment, either.

Anaisa
05-31-2006, 01:09 PM
and can you prove that? I doubt the slaughter houses do that because they have no reason to. It doesn't make sense.
It makes no sense that a slaughter house would treat Animals cruelly?! Can I prove that there is a relation between a slaughter house an a fast food restaurant?! It's self explanatary.

We are omnivores. Not herbivores, nor carnivores. We need both vegetation, and meat to survive. So vegetarians don't exist then? Or are all about to die?

-N-
05-31-2006, 01:12 PM
Man, the way this thread was staying in GC made me think it was a good spam thread.

*sigh*

How disappointing. :\

Dreddz
05-31-2006, 01:16 PM
you are what you eat.
Vegetarians become skinny, green, stupid and defensless.
Meat eaters become big, powerful, intelligent and brown (tanned).

what would you be?
Thats just what you think, its usually the people who dont eat vegetables that turn into fat lazy slobs. Fruit and Veg are more important than meat.
And I believe Popeye ate spinich to gain strength, not chicken wings...

crazybayman
05-31-2006, 01:34 PM
We are omnivores. Not herbivores, nor carnivores. We need both vegetation, and meat to survive. So vegetarians don't exist then? Or are all about to die?
No. I certainly didn't say that. You can get protein and iron from other sources, yes.

What I'm saying is that its perfectly natural for us to eat animals, being at the top of the food chain. And of course, to do that, we must kill animals, and they WILL suffer. Its nature taking its course.


Thats just what you think, its usually the people who dont eat vegetables that turn into fat lazy slobs. Fruit and Veg are more important than meat.
And I believe Popeye ate spinich to gain strength, not chicken wings...
that's a frickin' cartoon!!! Eating spinach doesn't make you strong! Yeah there's a little iron in it, but certainly not the protein necessary to be strong. Sheesh.

To be strong like popeye, you'd definitely need alot of exercise, and a significant source of protein. The natural source, of course is animals. And one of the leanest, and most healthiest is chicken.

~SapphireStar~
05-31-2006, 01:42 PM
I didnt watch the video, I read the first page of this thread instead ... and Im not going near KFC again.

crazybayman
05-31-2006, 01:44 PM
I didnt watch the video, I read the first page of this thread instead ... and Im not going near KFC again.
Well you'd better stop eating all meat, for that matter, unless you humanely kill it yourself. Cruelty like that happens all the time, and not just in KFC farms.

~SapphireStar~
05-31-2006, 01:46 PM
Well you'd better stop eating all meat, for that matter, unless you humanely kill it yourself. Cruelty like that happens all the time, and not just in KFC farms.
Im aware of that, but sometimes I'd rather not think about it. Ive been eating meat all my life and I know cruelty such as that has been going on since before I was born. Its just when you read or watch something on the subject it makes you think.

Spiffing Cheese
05-31-2006, 01:53 PM
Im aware of that, but sometimes I'd rather not think about it. Ive been eating meat all my life and I know cruelty such as that has been going on since before I was born. Its just when you read or watch something on the subject it makes you think.

Yeah, but if the cruelty happens in most places and not just KFC, why only stop eating there? That's utterly pointless. If you honestly don't agree with what they do to the animals, then stop eating at all the places that do it. Stopping eating at KFC because you saw a video showing what they do there and knowing that they do it in other areas yet still eating at those places is stupid. If you don't want to think about it, carry on eating at KFC too.

Anaisa
05-31-2006, 01:57 PM
To be strong like popeye, you'd definitely need alot of exercise, and a significant source of protein. The natural source, of course is animals. And one of the leanest, and most healthiest is chicken.
The protein from soy beans is far better for you than any protein that is in meat, because it is virtually free of fat, an contains no cholesterol.

~SapphireStar~
05-31-2006, 01:58 PM
Yeah, but if the cruelty happens in most places and not just KFC, why only stop eating there? That's utterly pointless. If you honestly don't agree with what they do to the animals, then stop eating at all the places that do it. Stopping eating at KFC because you saw a video showing what they do there and knowing that they do it in other areas yet still eating at those places is stupid. If you don't want to think about it, carry on eating at KFC too.
Its not stupid and pointless. So I should stop going to my local butchers and Tesco then because they sell meat and may be cruel to the animals? No, I wont stop eating meat because I have eaten it my whole life, but I rarely go to fast food resturants. I was saying that I wont go to KFC again because from the sound of the video it sounded harsh. But it wont stop me eating meat all together. I just wont go to fast food resturants.

Spiffing Cheese
05-31-2006, 02:06 PM
Yeah, but if the cruelty happens in most places and not just KFC, why only stop eating there? That's utterly pointless. If you honestly don't agree with what they do to the animals, then stop eating at all the places that do it. Stopping eating at KFC because you saw a video showing what they do there and knowing that they do it in other areas yet still eating at those places is stupid. If you don't want to think about it, carry on eating at KFC too.
Its not stupid and pointless. So I should stop going to my local butchers and Tesco then because they sell meat and may be cruel to the animals? No, I wont stop eating meat because I have eaten it my whole life, but I rarely go to fast food resturants. I was saying that I wont go to KFC again because from the sound of the video it sounded harsh. But it wont stop me eating meat all together. I just wont go to fast food resturants.

From the way you said it, it sounded like you just meant you were going to stop going to KFC and no others, which is pretty stupid.

crazybayman
05-31-2006, 02:15 PM
To be strong like popeye, you'd definitely need alot of exercise, and a significant source of protein. The natural source, of course is animals. And one of the leanest, and most healthiest is chicken.
The protein from soy beans is far better for you than any protein that is in meat, because it is virtually free of fat, an contains no cholesterol.
Yes, free of fat, and no cholesterol.

However, to get the amount of protein found in lean beef or chicken or fish, you'd have to eat ALOT of beans. Then spend the next 24hrs on the can. No thanks.

There's still no natural source of protein and iron that equals what's found in meat. Not to mention the other nutrients.

Tifa's Real Lover(really
05-31-2006, 02:53 PM
well if u dont eat the chicken, it was killed for no reason right?

Dreddz
05-31-2006, 03:12 PM
Thats just what you think, its usually the people who dont eat vegetables that turn into fat lazy slobs. Fruit and Veg are more important than meat.
And I believe Popeye ate spinich to gain strength, not chicken wings...
that's a frickin' cartoon!!! Eating spinach doesn't make you strong! Yeah there's a little iron in it, but certainly not the protein necessary to be strong. Sheesh.

To be strong like popeye, you'd definitely need alot of exercise, and a significant source of protein. The natural source, of course is animals. And one of the leanest, and most healthiest is chicken.
I wasnt taking that Popeye thing seriously!
Anyways, while Vegetables dont contain protein or fat, they contain vitamins like vitamin B and vitamin C, fat soluble vitamins including vitamin A and vitamin D, and also contain carbohydrates and minerals.

Most nutritionists claim that a diet rich in fresh fruit and vegetables but low in animal fat and red meat offers numerous health benefits, including a significantly lower risk of heart disease, cancer, renal failure and stroke. The American Dietetic Association, the largest organization of nutrition professionals, states on its website "Vegetarian diets offer a number of nutritional benefits, including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein as well as higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E and phytochemicals. Vegetarians have been reported to have lower body mass indices than nonvegetarians, as well as lower rates of death from ischemic heart disease; vegetarians also show lower blood cholesterol levels; lower blood pressure; and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer." The American Heart Association's website states "Many studies have shown that vegetarians seem to have a lower risk of obesity, coronary heart disease (which causes heart attack), high blood pressure, diabetes mellitus and some forms of cancer." Studies show that a vegetarian mother's breast milk has significantly lower levels of pesticide residue than a non-vegetarian's.

Some vegetable protein sources lack in one or more essential amino acids. For example, grains and nuts are low in lysine and legumes are low in methionine. Vegetarians get all the protein and amino acids they need from eating a normal variety of whole grains (whole wheat bread, oatmeal, brown rice), beans, nuts, and soy (tofu, veggie burgers/hotdogs, edamame, etc). The intake of such foods has to be larger since the protein percentage in these foods are comparatively lower than in a similar serving of meat. Attaining sufficient protein intake is rarely a problem in developed countries and the lower protein intake of vegetarians has even been suggested as a possible cause of some of the health benefits above. A vegetarian diet does not include fish - a major source of Omega 3, though some plant-based sources of it exist such as soy, walnuts, pumpkin seeds, canola oil and, especially, hempseed and flaxseed.

Studies endorsed by the ADA found that vegetarians had levels of iron or calcium similar to non-vegetarians. Some claim that Vitamin B-12 and zinc from vegetarian sources other than dairy products and eggs are not readily absorbed by the body and a vegan diet usually needs supplements.

blackmage_nuke
05-31-2006, 03:15 PM
I hope those people who think torturing animals is wrong but eating meat is okay dont eat eggs. The only thing worse than being tortured to death would probably be having your offspring taken from you and eaten and far more inhumane and torturing to any parent. Sure the egg might "die" in peace

Im not going on any sides of this argument, just making a point, and I only semi belive my own point so dont go asking me for any back up proof.

Anaisa
05-31-2006, 03:17 PM
To be strong like popeye, you'd definitely need alot of exercise, and a significant source of protein. The natural source, of course is animals. And one of the leanest, and most healthiest is chicken.
The protein from soy beans is far better for you than any protein that is in meat, because it is virtually free of fat, an contains no cholesterol.
Yes, free of fat, and no cholesterol.

However, to get the amount of protein found in lean beef or chicken or fish, you'd have to eat ALOT of beans. Then spend the next 24hrs on the can. No thanks.

There's still no natural source of protein and iron that equals what's found in meat. Not to mention the other nutrients.
We don't just have to eat soy beans to get protein or iron. There are plenty of foods we can eat to obtain more than enough protein. The protein found in meat is more plentiful than the protein in a soy bean. But the protein in soy beans is better for you. Quality over quantity. From Wikipedia:
The American Dietetic Association, the largest organization of nutrition professionals, states on its website "Vegetarian diets offer a number of nutritional benefits, including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein as well as higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E and phytochemicals. Vegetarians have been reported to have lower body mass indices than nonvegetarians, as well as lower rates of death from ischemic heart disease; vegetarians also show lower blood cholesterol levels; lower blood pressure; and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer." The American Heart Association's website states "Many studies have shown that vegetarians seem to have a lower risk of obesity, coronary heart disease (which causes heart attack), high blood pressure, diabetes mellitus and some forms of cancer.
Vegetarians get all the protein and amino acids they need from eating a normal variety of whole grains (whole wheat bread, oatmeal, brown rice), beans, nuts, and soy (tofu, veggie burgers/hotdogs, edamame, etc). The lower protein intake of vegetarians has been suggested as a possible cause of some of the health benefits above.

I hope those people who think torturing animals is wrong but eating meat is okay dont eat eggs. The only thing worse than being tortured to death would probably be having your offspring taken from you and eaten and far more inhumane and torturing to any parent. Sure the egg might "die" in peace

Im not going on any sides of this argument, just making a point, and I only semi belive my own point so dont go asking me for any back up proof. An egg is not the same as a baby. Women lose an egg once a month. Comparing an egg to a baby is like comparing a period to a mis-carriage. A chick is a chickens offspring, not an egg. Just like a baby is a human offspring, not just the egg itself.

teaandmachines
05-31-2006, 05:17 PM
Uh... YEAH we do... If we didn't kill animals we'd be dead. Its as simple as that. We cannot live off of fruit and veggies, so don't go there.


negative. boiled eggs have protein. some cereals have protein. some nuts have protein. how do you think vegatarians and vegans live?

crazybayman
05-31-2006, 05:46 PM
I wasnt taking that Popeye thing seriously!
Anyways, while Vegetables dont contain protein or fat, they contain vitamins like vitamin B and vitamin C, fat soluble vitamins including vitamin A and vitamin D, and also contain carbohydrates and minerals.

Of course. I didn't say eat all meat and no vegetables. You need both for a balanced diet.

We don't just have to eat soy beans to get protein or iron. There are plenty of foods we can eat to obtain more than enough protein. The protein found in meat is more plentiful than the protein in a soy bean. But the protein in soy beans is better for you. Quality over quantity. From Wikipedia:
The American Dietetic Association, the largest organization of nutrition professionals, states on its website "Vegetarian diets offer a number of nutritional benefits, including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein as well as higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E and phytochemicals. Vegetarians have been reported to have lower body mass indices than nonvegetarians, as well as lower rates of death from ischemic heart disease; vegetarians also show lower blood cholesterol levels; lower blood pressure; and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer." The American Heart Association's website states "Many studies have shown that vegetarians seem to have a lower risk of obesity, coronary heart disease (which causes heart attack), high blood pressure, diabetes mellitus and some forms of cancer.
Vegetarians get all the protein and amino acids they need from eating a normal variety of whole grains (whole wheat bread, oatmeal, brown rice), beans, nuts, and soy (tofu, veggie burgers/hotdogs, edamame, etc). The lower protein intake of vegetarians has been suggested as a possible cause of some of the health benefits above.
Not enough for me. As someone who exercises regularly, I require a substantial amount of protein on a daily basis. Much more than I get from eating my fruits, vegetables, wholegrains, etc. Therefore I (and many others) need to eat meat.

Actually, that's a funny thought: I go for approximately 180grams of protein per day. Imagine the amount of beans, nuts, wholegrains, eggs and tofu I'd have to eat to get that :laugh:

And even if I didn't need that much protein, I'd certainly still make meat a part of my daily diet. Heck, I hunt moose and small game in the fall. Its completely natural for humans to eat meat. Certainly more natural than it is for humans to not eat meat.

Plus, it does point out that vegetarians in general are slighter. Meat (with exercise) allows you to put on lean muscle. I certainly wouldn't want to be slighter, due to not eating enough of the right things. If you exercise enough (like anyone should) the fat and cholesterol consumed is burned off by your metabolism anyways. And to be more fit you need some amount of muscle, and meat is necessary for that.

Anyways, the point of this whole thread is animal suffering. And if being a vegetarian is your way of thinking a veggie diet has nothing to do with animal suffereing, then think again. See the link below:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=grill

Yeah, this guy is known for bashing, but he does have valid arguments, in the fact that animals still do suffer, from harvesters, and so on.

That aside, it still completely scientifically natural for humans to kill animals to eat. Hence, they suffer. Its part of the ecosystem, and of all creation. It actually keeps a healthy balance in the food chain, and the earth's ecosystem.

RPJesus
05-31-2006, 06:17 PM
Stop linking to Maddox! It isn't a good arguement! It's not even an arguement!
He's joking. Do people really not get that? It's so obvious! He talks about eating vegetarians, he isn't serious.

All this stuff about whether or not we have the 'right' to kill animals... too many people think those opposing factory farming are just whiny self-righteous vegetarians. Not a lot of people have actually complained about the killing of animals. This isn't just vegetarinas trying to force opinions on you. Not even close (though Anasia's gotten a little too loving of them).
Factory farming is wrong. It's completely unnessecary, and disgustingly cruel. Causing people pointless pain for profit is bad. No matter what you do. And they are doing it for profit. Which is bad.

And too many Fantasy Fan is complaining about PETA. They aren't evil. A few are idiots, yeah, but you get that everywhere. You can't say torture is OK because of stupid steriotypes.

So... there's isn't anything wrong with killing animals for food. That's nature. Keeping them in conditions like that for months, and the growth hormone stuff to make them better, isn't. Animals kill, yes, but they don't do that.



That aside, it still completely scientifically natural for humans to kill animals to eat. Hence, they suffer. Its part of the ecosystem, and of all creation. It actually keeps a healthy balance in the food chain, and the earth's ecosystem.
There's a huge difference between just killing the animals and factory farming. It doesn't do anything for the ecosystem, it's completely taken out of the way of it. It isn't at all healthy.
And there's a difference between just death and torture. Well, that sounds stupid but... killing is one thing. Torture is another. They don't need to suffer like that. No one does, no one should.



There's still no natural source of protein and iron that equals what's found in meat. Not to mention the other nutrients.
Actually, and apparently, the fake vegetarian meats you can get are better for you than actual meat. They contain all the protein, as well as some extra things, and not all of the fat. A vegetarina diet is perfactly healthy, if you do it right.

crazybayman
05-31-2006, 06:29 PM
Stop linking to Maddox! It isn't a good arguement! It's not even an arguement!
Of course he isn't serious, I didn't say he was. But in all fairness, he does have valid points. Such as the amount of animals killed by grain harvesters, for instance.

Actually, and apparently, the fake vegetarian meats you can get are better for you than actual meat. They contain all the protein, as well as some extra things, and not all of the fat. A vegetarina diet is perfactly healthy, if you do it right.
True, it can be. However, my point is that a regularly balanced diet consisting of the necessary meats, fruits & veggies, wholegrains, etc, is perfectly normal, and natural. More natural in fact than refusing to eat meat.


There's a huge difference between just killing the animals and factory farming. It doesn't do anything for the ecosystem, it's completely taken out of the way of it. It isn't at all healthy.
And there's a difference between just death and torture. Well, that sounds stupid but... killing is one thing. Torture is another. They don't need to suffer like that. No one does, no one should.
I know. Factory farming is wrong, I echoed this in a previous post (see post #224). My other point is that its completely pointless to boycott just KFC because of factory farming, as many other food products, even what we buy at the supermarket are processed in the same manner.

boris no no
05-31-2006, 07:04 PM
I went into KFC today
I bought the chicken
Thought about this thread
Thought about my tummy rumbling
Ate the chicken

Cid Vicious
05-31-2006, 07:13 PM
Everytime i see a video like that, I say i'm never going to eat meat again.
But then i forget about it, get hungry and go have a burger.
It's a shame this sort of thing happens, but there's not enough tasty foods for vegetarians.
A steak tastes alot better than a salad sandwich.

~SapphireStar~
05-31-2006, 08:16 PM
Everytime i see a video like that, I say i'm never going to eat meat again.
But then i forget about it, get hungry and go have a burger.
That is what I was driving at, yet some thought it was a stupid and pointless thing to do ...

War Angel
05-31-2006, 10:47 PM
how do you think vegatarians and vegans live?
Terribly, unless they're rich enough to buy all the supplements. My girlfriend was a veggie, and it made her very feeble, her hair fell off, etc... she went to a doctor, and that doctor told her to start eating meat. She reluctantly ate some at first, and learnt to enjoy it as time went by. Her hair looks great now, her skin pigmentation a whole lot better, and she's much more vital all together.

I know that when I lay off meat, for whatever reason, I notice the change in me almost immediatly. I depend on meat.

I think it's easier for women to be veggies... but men would find it a lot harder. We have more muscle-mass to support, plus many of us seem to have this craving for meat. I often crave chocolate or a good steak.

boris no no
05-31-2006, 10:54 PM
Its just natural to eat meat. They don't call us Omivoires for nothing

FallenAngel411
05-31-2006, 11:00 PM
This thread is way too long for me to sit and read the whole thing, so sorry for that. But I finally got around to watching the video attached, and it was definitely disturbing, to say the least. However, there are disturbing things taking place behind the scenes of almost anything you can think of, so when I hear of things like this I can't help but shrug and go, "oh well". I won't stop eating meat because of this, just like I won't stop playing soccer because most of the balls are sewn by starving children in thrid world countries for little to no pay. And if I'm hungry enough and all thats nearby is a KFC, I will have me some chicken. It's sad, its cruel, but its life. Most chicken in the world, thankfully, are treated with a little more respect than that. But in all honesty I would rather put my strength into advocating a cause that affects the world more greatly than harm to chickens. I am not without heart for these animals, but my heart is all I have to give them. Which really doesn't take away the pain.