Shinra...

[loinharte]

Is Shinra the bad people? I think Shinra are good in a way. cause they trin to stop sephiroth. what do you think?

[Emerald weapon]

Shrina are only slightly good when metor is summoned i think because they were sucking up all of the lifestream for energy which would evntually destroy the planet,the burned down barrets hometown corel,they do human experiments on SOLDIER's,they made sephiroth,they took areis,they were looking for the promised land which is full of mako which they would have used for energy which would sped up the process of the world being destoyed,they blew up sector 7 and blamed it on AVALANCHE,theres more reasons why they are bad but i cant remeber the now,but they only did do several good things such as:removing the light barrier around the north crater,killed DIAMOND weapon,killed SAPPHAIRE weapon and attempted to blow up meteor

[Xurts]

The Shinra are bad to the core. They only tried to stop Sephiroth and the Weapons because they posed a threat to the Planet, and to Shinra's profits.

[krayziesaiko]

call me crazy, but I actually think that between Sephiroth and the Shinra, Sephiroth is the more innocent one. When you really think about it. I mean, he found out he was created... How would you feel? Really what he did was not terribly evil considering his circumstances.

Shinra, however, are pure evil. They are motivated by greed and power. Sephiroth is more like an angsty teen.

[G SpOtZ]

Shinra molested my family.






Then they sent me a teddy bear.






But that teddy bear had a bomb in it.

[Crop]

call me crazy, but I actually think that between Sephiroth and the Shinra, Sephiroth is the more innocent one. When you really think about it. I mean, he found out he was created... How would you feel? Really what he did was not terribly evil considering his circumstances.

Shinra, however, are pure evil. They are motivated by greed and power. Sephiroth is more like an angsty teen.


Well I would not summon a meteor to kill everyone. Hes not innocent at all.

I love Shinra, they are the powerful company ruling with an iron fist. Thats what I would want to do.

[Sefie1999AD]

The staff of Shinra are quite greedy and lusting for power, they did human experiments with Mako and Jenova cells and they use any means possible to keep themselves in power, such as destroying the support holding the plate above Sector 7, crushing both the plate and Sector 7, and finally blaming Avalanche for it. The reason why Shinra fought Sephiroth and the Weapons was that it wouldn't do much good to their business if the world was destroyed.

[Lost Number]

Whether Shinra are evil depends on what you define as Shinra. The upper core of Shinra, (the bosses) are bad people, but for most of the rest of the company, little blame can be applied. The turks do help you out on one occasion, are arent really all that willing to fight you, when they realize no more orders are coming. The majority of the shinra soldiers and staff are simply following order. That should not qualify them as evil.

[Zeromus_X]

'Evil' and 'Good' are relative and differ from person to person. But Shinra is the main villain for most of the game, with little Seph-Seph.

Reeve however, is not evil, because he's a good guy looking out for the people of Midgar. And he created my Kitten-Sith, so he must be good.

I don't really like the rest of them though. They're either annoying (Scarlet/Heidegger/Palmer), or not really interesting (Rufus/Turks.) The Turks are still good for a laugh though! :cat:

[loinharte]

Shinra is bad but sephiroth isnt any better. I think sephiroth is worse for one he casts meteor, then in AC he try to use the planet as a ship.

[krayziesaiko]

call me crazy, but I actually think that between Sephiroth and the Shinra, Sephiroth is the more innocent one. When you really think about it. I mean, he found out he was created... How would you feel? Really what he did was not terribly evil considering his circumstances.

Shinra, however, are pure evil. They are motivated by greed and power. Sephiroth is more like an angsty teen.


Well I would not summon a meteor to kill everyone. Hes not innocent at all.

I love Shinra, they are the powerful company ruling with an iron fist. Thats what I would want to do.


yes, but from Sephiroths perspective, he was doing the right thing. I'm sure Shinra knew all along what they were doing was wrong, especially since they openly discussed how they were manipulating people and taking their money.

[DJZen]

I don't really like the rest of them though. They're either annoying (Scarlet/Heidegger/Palmer), or not really interesting (Rufus/Turks.)

:hot:
HEIDEGGER IS THE MOST CREATIVE AND LOVING SOUL IN THE WORLD! HE HAS THE SOUL OF A POET THE HEART OF AN ARTIST AND THE MIND OF A GENIUS! YOU ARE DESECRATING THE CHARACTER OF THE SINGLE GREATEST PERSON IN THE ENTIRE BLAND CAST OF FINAL FANTASY VII! THIS IS COMPLETELY UNFORGIVEABLE!

[Zeromus_X]

Haha, you haven't seen me say my annoyance with Heidegger in other threads? :cat:

Well, he's more tolerable than Scarlet. Scarlet...bleh.

[Xurts]

call me crazy, but I actually think that between Sephiroth and the Shinra, Sephiroth is the more innocent one. When you really think about it. I mean, he found out he was created... How would you feel? Really what he did was not terribly evil considering his circumstances.

Shinra, however, are pure evil. They are motivated by greed and power. Sephiroth is more like an angsty teen.
The hell it wasn't. He burned down an entire village and killed many innocent people. Not only that, but he is just as greedy and power hungry as Shinra, probably even more. His plan was to summon Meteor so he could wound the Planet, and then absorb all of the energy that was sent to heal the wound.

Shinra are rotten. Nothing about them is good in any way. All they want is more money and they will do whatever it takes to get it, like sucking the life from the Planet for instance.

[LunarWeaver]

Shinra is just Wal-Mart, evil but convenient.

[blackmage_nuke]

Shinra drain the planets life force for energy, its peoples fault that they choose to use the energy

[Ryth]

Shinra was being immoral, giving into greed at the cost of the health of their planet. They were not doing the right thing to do. They weren't "good" in any regard. When they tried to stop Meteor it was only because they'd rather suck up the life's energy themselves which would assumedly (I haven't played the game in a couple years, so my memory may be off) be gradual and would cause problems for future generations and not themselves, so it wouldn't be their problem. However, Meteor would've crushed them and killed them immediately, and it'd suck for them. So, something that could be misinterpreted as noble and heroic is actually just a selfish way to save themselves and their corporation. Sephiroth is insane, he's not innocent or "good," but he wasn't consciously being immoral for himself. He thought that was what "mother" wanted or some other silly motivation, hormones or something.

[loinharte]

Shinra Just likes money
Shinra=Government
Shinra is like those people in office just after money

[krayziesaiko]

Sephiroth is insane, he's not innocent or "good," but he wasn't consciously being immoral for himself. He thought that was what "mother" wanted or some other silly motivation, hormones or something.

ah thats exactly what I meant. Not completely innocent, but definitely more innocent than the Shinra. Also, from Sephiroths perspective, humans are "evil"...

But the Shinra are just pure pure evil.

[loinharte]

But sephiroths human hes just got Jenova in him. So he hates himself to?

[spunkytofu]

But sephiroths human hes just got Jenova in him. So he hates himself to?

I meant he hates non-ancients.

EDIT: sorry, I meant to post as Krayziesaiko but my bf computer is auto-logged.

[Xurts]

Sephiroth is insane, he's not innocent or "good," but he wasn't consciously being immoral for himself. He thought that was what "mother" wanted or some other silly motivation, hormones or something.

ah thats exactly what I meant. Not completely innocent, but definitely more innocent than the Shinra. Also, from Sephiroths perspective, humans are "evil"...

But the Shinra are just pure pure evil.


The hell it wasn't. He burned down an entire village and killed many innocent people. Not only that, but he is just as greedy and power hungry as Shinra, probably even more. His plan was to summon Meteor so he could wound the Planet, and then absorb all of the energy that was sent to heal the wound.
^^^

[krayziesaiko]

Sephiroth is insane, he's not innocent or "good," but he wasn't consciously being immoral for himself. He thought that was what "mother" wanted or some other silly motivation, hormones or something.

ah thats exactly what I meant. Not completely innocent, but definitely more innocent than the Shinra. Also, from Sephiroths perspective, humans are "evil"...

But the Shinra are just pure pure evil.


The hell it wasn't. He burned down an entire village and killed many innocent people. Not only that, but he is just as greedy and power hungry as Shinra, probably even more. His plan was to summon Meteor so he could wound the Planet, and then absorb all of the energy that was sent to heal the wound.
^^^


from Sephiroths perspective though, the people he killed weren't innocent. Remember, right before he burned down the village he gave that speech about how (humans) ruined and stole the planet from the Cetra, and how he was going to take it back. I'm just saying, he wasn't doing what he did merely out of greed... He wasn't saying "I am going to go kill these innocents" he really thought they were bad. The Shinra thought people were innocent and knew they were taking advantage of them. The Shinra KNEW they were doing the wrong thing. I'm not trying to say Sephiroth is completely innocent, I'm just trying to say he's not as bad as the Shinra.

[loinharte]

if he hates non-ancients why he kill Areis/Areith

[Xurts]

Sephiroth is insane, he's not innocent or "good," but he wasn't consciously being immoral for himself. He thought that was what "mother" wanted or some other silly motivation, hormones or something.

ah thats exactly what I meant. Not completely innocent, but definitely more innocent than the Shinra. Also, from Sephiroths perspective, humans are "evil"...

But the Shinra are just pure pure evil.


The hell it wasn't. He burned down an entire village and killed many innocent people. Not only that, but he is just as greedy and power hungry as Shinra, probably even more. His plan was to summon Meteor so he could wound the Planet, and then absorb all of the energy that was sent to heal the wound.
^^^


from Sephiroths perspective though, the people he killed weren't innocent. Remember, right before he burned down the village he gave that speech about how (humans) ruined and stole the planet from the Cetra, and how he was going to take it back. I'm just saying, he wasn't doing what he did merely out of greed... He wasn't saying "I am going to go kill these innocents" he really thought they were bad. The Shinra thought people were innocent and knew they were taking advantage of them. The Shinra KNEW they were doing the wrong thing. I'm not trying to say Sephiroth is completely innocent, I'm just trying to say he's not as bad as the Shinra.
You are forgetting that Sephiroth summoned Meteor. That act right there was much worse than anything Shinra had ever done, even their experiments. He was planning on causing a huge wound to the Planet so he could absorb the energy that was sent to heal it. If that isn't greed, then I don't know what is.

[Ryth]

I think Sephiroth's actions were more a thing of ignorance than it was a thing of sheer innocence or immorality.

[Xurts]

I think Sephiroth's actions were more a thing of ignorance than it was a thing of sheer innocence or immorality.
Lol. If it was anything, it surely was not ignorance. He knew full well what he was doing.

[Christmas]

http://www.kekkai.org/andrea/stupid/hacks/shindows.jpg

http://www.kekkai.org/andrea/stupid/hacks/thetruth.jpg

[Sefie1999AD]

Christmas: ROFL! That would explain why the support and the plate above Sector 7 crashed and collapsed.

(At the top of Pillar Station.)
RENO: "I wonder what this button does... oh snap, Blue Screen of Death!"
(The plate goes down.)

[Ryth]

I think Sephiroth's actions were more a thing of ignorance than it was a thing of sheer innocence or immorality.
Lol. If it was anything, it surely was not ignorance. He knew full well what he was doing.

But he didn't understand his actions were wrong and immoral, right? He thought he was doing the right thing, but he was wrong, sounds a bit ignorant of the facts to me. I'm sure I'm wrong though...

[Xurts]

I think Sephiroth's actions were more a thing of ignorance than it was a thing of sheer innocence or immorality.
Lol. If it was anything, it surely was not ignorance. He knew full well what he was doing.

But he didn't understand his actions were wrong and immoral, right? He thought he was doing the right thing, but he was wrong, sounds a bit ignorant of the facts to me. I'm sure I'm wrong though...
When does he say that he believes the things he is doing are morally right and justified?

Lol, nice Christmas.

[loinharte]

im pretty sure he new he was doing the wrong thing

[Kefka_Almighty]

Whether Shinra are evil depends on what you define as Shinra. The upper core of Shinra, (the bosses) are bad people, but for most of the rest of the company, little blame can be applied. The turks do help you out on one occasion, are arent really all that willing to fight you, when they realize no more orders are coming. The majority of the shinra soldiers and staff are simply following order. That should not qualify them as evil

I agree to a point. The heads of the divisions, and mainly Rufus, are definantily what most would define as evil. I think the Turks run more towards a stance of neutrality. In a way, there almost more like somewhat more stable mercenaries: they pledge allegiance to Shinra because Shinra pays them; if Shinra went down, it's unlikely they'd have trouble finding new work.


'Evil' and 'Good' are relative and differ from person to person. But Shinra is the main villain for most of the game, with little Seph-Seph.

Again, I agree on the idea of "evil" and "good" being rational, though only to a point.

However, I disagree about the analysis of Sephiroth. Shinra is definantily a major player throughout the entirety of the game, but Sephiroth has more than an ample presence as the main villain of the game. He consistantly appears to mock you and harass you, as well as (though indirectly) confronting you. While Shinra tends to be a bigger 'presence', for the most part, I think Sephiroth has more than ample appearance in the game.


rom Sephiroths perspective though, the people he killed weren't innocent. Remember, right before he burned down the village he gave that speech about how (humans) ruined and stole the planet from the Cetra, and how he was going to take it back. I'm just saying, he wasn't doing what he did merely out of greed... He wasn't saying "I am going to go kill these innocents" he really thought they were bad. The Shinra thought people were innocent and knew they were taking advantage of them. The Shinra KNEW they were doing the wrong thing. I'm not trying to say Sephiroth is completely innocent, I'm just trying to say he's not as bad as the Shinra.

I completely disagree. Though he thought humans were evil and deserving of death, that didn't stop the fact that his entire ideas and plans for what he intended to do centered around things that would prove beneficial only truly to himself and his goal of destroying the human race because of the crime he perceives has been committed against the planet. That being the case, the main factors of his desire came from wrath and greed. He was also hypocritical, as he talked about how they had hurt the planet yet he INTENDED to summon the Meteor to wound the planet and then absorb the energy sent to heal the wound. Thus, he basically intended to right things by merely continuing on with the wrong that was already being perpetrated, merely to a much grander scale.

Not that Shinra was any better, but I think it's a stretch to say Sephiroth was better than they were, as Sephiroth's mere view of a people cannot justify his actions.

[loinharte]

Not that Shinra was any better, but I think it's a stretch to say Sephiroth was better than they were, as Sephiroth's mere view of a people cannot justify his actions

i agree to the sephiroth part

[finalfantasyguy4ever]

s=selfish
h= hatred
i=irogant
n=neglectful
r=raty
a=arogant


imagine ur mom was taken from u and u really wanted her back seph wanted to do anything to get his mom back what he did was wrong but he wanted his mothers warmth and wish and wanted to be a great son so what he did was wrong and evil but all he wanted was his mom


shinra was 2 faced in there actions but they were like a banana when u take out all the bad parts u have a good piece of fruit so once all the bad parts of shinra was taken away they saw how they were wrong in ffac so shinra was bad but then started to see what they did was wrong in the end

[Kefka_Almighty]

imagine ur mom was taken from u and u really wanted her back seph wanted to do anything to get his mom back what he did was wrong but he wanted his mothers warmth and wish and wanted to be a great son so what he did was wrong and evil but all he wanted was his mom

So merely having wanted his mom was justification for him to attempt to wipe out the human race AND the planet? While I can see how you came to the conclusion you did and Sephiroth's possible reasoning, I still say that his actions are unjustified and that his mere perceptions on things and people do NOT provided justification.

Also, yes, he wanted his mother's warmth perhaps to a degree, but even then the whole thing took on a new form as he basically really just wanted to justify destroying Shinra and the planet in a fit of rage to "avenge" his mom, or who he perceived was his mother, as well as spouting a bunch of racial superiority nonsense.

And, if we want to talk about his mother.......

Jenova was NOT his mother; if I remember correctly, his real mother, Lucrecia, was infused with some of Jenova's DNA to see how the offspring of such a person would turn out, or Jenova DNA was added to him later on (it's been so long since I played the game that I can't fully remember). It's odd that the books he looked through seemingly never mentioned that, and to a degree I believe he really ignored it if they did; he had probably already come to view himself as a member of a superior race, and saying he was avenging his mother was merely a form of justification he could use to help ease his mind, if even that.

[finalfantasyguy4ever]

yea im not saying what he did wasnt wrong but alot was taken from him so that is what made him go insane

[Kefka_Almighty]

True only to a minor extent. Yes, there were things in life that could have been taken from him, if he had had them to begin with. While it must have been harsh, the fact was that he had lived his entire life without any of the things he supposedly believed had been taken from him. He used the idea that he had been deprived something as a rational by which to do what he did.

And if you think about, he didn't seem to have really cared about any of those things anyway, as he talked less and less about avenging his mother and more and more about gaining and wielding power. To me, that always implied that the whole "mother" thing was just a rational, and he knew it was a rational, to give some kind of possible moral justification to the stand he had taken. As far as I'm concerned, he deceived himself, at the very least, and thus never really had concrete ground to go "insane" other than the fact that he became such a supporter of the idea of a superior race and his desire to install that race due to what he had read.

[nik0tine]

If you had the opportunity to run a company worth billions of gil you'd suck up the planets life energy too.

Edit:

s=selfish
h= hatred
i=irogant
n=neglectful
r=raty
a=arogant


imagine ur mom was taken from u and u really wanted her back seph wanted to do anything to get his mom back what he did was wrong but he wanted his mothers warmth and wish and wanted to be a great son so what he did was wrong and evil but all he wanted was his mom


shinra was 2 faced in there actions but they were like a banana when u take out all the bad parts u have a good piece of fruit so once all the bad parts of shinra was taken away they saw how they were wrong in ffac so shinra was bad but then started to see what they did was wrong in the end
Off course!

[cloud20747]

Shinra is just Wal-Mart, evil but convenient.

:lol: Did anyone even see this?

[loinharte]

Shinra is just Wal-Mart, evil but convenient.


Did anyone even see this?

i think we all seen that

[cloudbuster7]

guys.. technically, if shirnia didn't do any expiriments on sephiroth, then none this would have happened. think about it, hojo used jenova's cells and injected it into sephiroth and had pro. gast killed. it's shirnia thats bad