Tidus Question (Major Spoiler!)

[SuperNatural]

I likedthe ending for Final Fantasy X. It was so emotional and sad, yet, I felt it was imcomplete and it raises more questions. Anyways, Tidus lived in Dream Zanarkand which which was composed pyreflies. If the city and people were composed of pyreflies, does that mean that Tidus never truely existed? Or does it mean that he was real and died 1000 years ago?


Sorry for the questions, but some things in FFX still don't make sense to me. These questions are forcing me to play the game through all over again (which isn't bad at all, but I want answers).

[Tavrobel]

Yes, it was composed of pyreflies. While Tidus existed, it was not a technical existence, since being real is not defined to the people of Spira as "existing at some faraway point in the ocean where your destiny is to live and die and disappear and not to at any point interact with the people of Spira."

Tidus did NOT EXIST 1000 years ago, as a misconception of the game will lead you to believe. He lived concurrently with the rest of Spira in Dream Zanarkand, except far removed.

[SuperNatural]

So, Tidus never truely existed?

[bipper]

What looses me, is he watches yuna send souls a few times through out the game, yet never is affected untill the end. He can also enter the farplane as Aruon could not.

This confuses me deeply.

Bipper

[SuperNatural]

What looses me, is he watches yuna send souls a few times through out the game, yet never is affected untill the end. He can also enter the farplane as Aruon could not.

This confuses me deeply.

Bipper
Yeah, that is what's really getting me. Plot holes?

[Tavrobel]

What looses me, is he watches yuna send souls a few times through out the game, yet never is affected untill the end. He can also enter the farplane as Aruon could not.

This confuses me deeply.

Bipper


Yeah, that is what's really getting me. Plot holes?

It's because you don't know what is going on. This is very much subtext, and VERY difficult to pick out in FFX. Confusion abroad is for everyone, except for those who have heard it correctly from elsewhere.

Tidus is not dead. Unlike Auron (who is an unsent), he is maintained by the fayth at Gagazet. As such, his "existence" is not tied to the pyreflies of the dead, he is contained by other powers. Consider him an Aeon, a small tiny Aeon from a family of Aeons that is essentially one gigantic Aeon.

When at last he disappears, Yuna does not send him. He is disappearing because the fayth are no longer dreaming, allowing them rest. He is also present at Auron's sending without effect. Auron IS an unsent, and would be affected by Yuna's sending.

This brings into discussion, the ability of Summoners to affect pyreflies. It is possible that the pyreflies that constitue an Aeon are somewhat different from the pyreflies of the unsent, that perhaps when they form a material existence, their bonds are stronger (think of it as the difference between a covalent's and an ionic's atomic bond, except without the properties of electron sharing or transfer).

It is also possible that Summoners can only directly manipulate the pyreflies of the unsent, which Summoner school most likely teaches them. While they can manipulate pyreflies of Aeons, they have no direct control over them. In the Temples, one must pray before the pyreflies of the Aeons will even constitute. Also, in FFX, Yuna is seen giving vocal commands (and some battle quotes regarding her Aeons), and this is especially highlighted by her use of the Magus sisters.

However, her bond with Valefor contradicts this (an innate understanding as can be seen in Bevelle), but Valefor is also her first Aeon.

[SuperNatural]

That makes sense. So the Fayth dreamed up Tidus because he was the only one who could defeat Sin, but he needed a true form so Sin brought him to Spira. Would that make Jecht like Tidus? Not human, but more like an aeon in a human form?

[Tavrobel]

That makes sense. So the Fayth dreamed up Tidus because he was the only one who could defeat Sin, but he needed a true form so Sin brought him to Spira. Would that make Jecht like Tidus? Not human, but more like an aeon in a human form?

The fayth did not dream him up because he was the only one who could defeat Sin. This is most certainly a serious misunderstanding. Tidus is dreamt up because he is Jecht's son. No other reason. It just HAPPENED to occur that Jecht would become Sin, and that Tidus was his son.

The process in which Jecht became Sin was because he became an Aeon possessed by Yu Yevon. This means that he was in his Aeon form the entire time; the encounter in Sin's heart was still him as an Aeon, except that his powers and form was inhibited.

[Thorn]

What looses me, is he watches yuna send souls a few times through out the game, yet never is affected untill the end. He can also enter the farplane as Aruon could not.

This confuses me deeply.

Bipper

Likewise. I think that ff7/ff10 have to be the most confusing of the lot.

[Quistis_Trepe]

I think it's sad that Tidus never really existed and that he was only a dream...

[Cookie]

I think it would have been funny at the end if Yuna ran to him and fell off the airship.

[Quistis_Trepe]

I think it would have been funny at the end if Yuna ran to him and fell off the airship.

Hey, that would hav been funy...

[SuperNatural]

I think it would have been funny at the end if Yuna ran to him and fell off the airship.
That actually made me laugh out loud for real. Ha ha!

Ok. Mods can close this thread now. Tidus... never existed? God, that sucks!

[Tavrobel]

I think it would have been funny at the end if Yuna ran to him and fell off the airship.
That actually made me laugh out loud for real. Ha ha!

Ok. Mods can close this thread now. Tidus... never existed? God, that sucks!

Not in the sense of traditional existence, anyways. It's hard to explain, but you get the idea.

CKs usually don't close threads that had discussion in them without spam. They usually let it die due to lack of posting.

[vylion]

dunno if u guys noticed but when seymour asks "what are you still doing here?" to auron then he says the guado are keen to the scent of the farplane, wouldn't other guado say things to tidus if he was really pyreflies, as they are the scent of the farplane?

[Tavrobel]

As I said before, Tidus' pyreflies could be different from Auron's. Also it says the Guado are keen to the scent of the Farplane, not of those from Dream Zanarkand. Everyone and almost everything is made of pyreflies, Fiends, people, even the Aeons themselves are Pyreflies.

However, if you'll notice, Yuna never performs a Sending for Fiends.
This is proof that pyrefly constitution varies from object to object.


It is possible that the pyreflies that constitue an Aeon Tidus are somewhat different from the pyreflies of the unsent [Auron], that perhaps when they form a material existence, their bonds are stronger (think of it as the difference between a covalent's and an ionic's atomic bond...)

[bipper]

At the end, doesn't Yuna stop from sending him.. as she shakes her head no? I take it the team didn't know what the hell was going on either then? I do have some more questions, but does FFX2 cover anymore on the nature of tidus and sin? OR is the game pretty worthless?

[Tavrobel]

Yuna does shortly stop for Auron when she realizes he is leaving, but by the point she had stopped, he had already made the decision to enter the Farplane.

As far as Tidus goes, Yuna was sending the Aeons. By the time Tidus began disappearing, the Aeons are already gone, which meant that his link to Spira was disappearing. Yuna is depicted as having already stopped by the time that Tidus began to fade away, which means that she is not able to manipulate DZ pyreflies. She shakes her head "no" because she does not want Tidus to leave.

As far as FFX-2 is concerned, it doesn't really delve deeper into pyreflies mystery, but it does put into solid canon some short definitions (albiet highly oversimplified) of pyreflies and Sin, and the Aeons. However, the relationship with pyreflies is not with Aeons, but the unsent Shuyin and his (for the lack of a better word) replica, Tidus. FFX-2 is mostly useless, and brings up MORE questions that shouldn't need to be asked, and are, if anything, contradictory.

[Iceglow]

The Zanarkand that Tidus is from was a dream. If the dream comes in to contact with Sin then there is a chance that the part of the dream that came in to contact with Sin can become something more than just a dream.

However Tidus and Jehct before him were still only dreams but instead of existing in the flow of the dream they existed outside of the flow in the world of Spira (reality)

This would be akin to you dreaming up your fantasy of the perfect girl and the next day you awake and find her sitting in your room completely real so that everyone can see her, touch her and speak to her but then one day you stop dreaming about her and she disappears.

That is what happened to Tidus and Jehct thanks to Sin. Jecht however complicates it by becoming the fayth for Sin a way that proves that whilst he is in Spira he is as real and more importantly from the way this conversation is going, alive. Tidus follows suit apart from he doesn't want to become Sin (for that was his other choice I think he would have had to have been the fayth for the final summoning for Yuna had that been their choice) The dead however can freely ride Sin to the dream and back or rather they can if Sin allows them to. That is what Auron did to get to Tidus and to make sure that when Jecht (Sin) was ready he would take him back and guide him to his destiny.

It was when the dream ended that Tidus's existence ended when you awake from a dream it is as if the dream never was, but as I said about the fantasy girl, those she spoke to and touched would forever bear the witness to the fact that she was there and real. Hence Yuna and her other guardians (not to mention half of spira from the looks of it in the game) will remember Tidus as being there even though he disappeared along with Sin and the Fayth.

Now as for Tidus's looks and existing 1000 years before the game's events the people here are correct Tidus didn't exist 1000 years ago in Zanarkand. In fact Tidus's appearance and such I believe was based on someone from the real Zanarkand however (as you will see if you play X-2) called Shuyin who like Tidus falls in love with a Summoner and will do anything to protect her and prevent her from dying.

[licence]

Wow, I never knew it was so confusing. All I thought was that Tidus was a dream of a person who had died 1000 years ago.

[Tavrobel]

Wow, I never knew it was so confusing. All I thought was that Tidus was a dream of a person who had died 1000 years ago.

Technically he is. Shuyin's template was used in the designing of Tidus in DZ, but filtered down through many years. Thank you Iceglow, for summing up my words in a coherent format which is more like a lecture, rather than me having to answer each question individually, and therefore, making things complicated and disjointed.

[chocobo rider2]

What of the end, after the credits, where a few pyreflies flit by and Tidus wakes up and swims toward the "surface" and then the FFX logo comes up and then it's THE END ... is this just supposed to be a flashback of some sort, or is it supposed to lead you to believe that he does still exist?

[No.78]

What of the end, after the credits, where a few pyreflies flit by and Tidus wakes up and swims toward the "surface" and then the FFX logo comes up and then it's THE END ... is this just supposed to be a flashback of some sort, or is it supposed to lead you to believe that he does still exist?

They continue that FMV in X-2, that's Tidus coming back. Tidus says in the little cutscene on the perfect ending "I think they put all my memories togethor and made me" (or something like that)... So, I think he has sorta, BECAME real.

[Tavrobel]

What of the end, after the credits, where a few pyreflies flit by and Tidus wakes up and swims toward the "surface" and then the FFX logo comes up and then it's THE END ... is this just supposed to be a flashback of some sort, or is it supposed to lead you to believe that he does still exist?
If you omitte evidence from FFX-2? Then, it was put there as a fanservice, so that people could write fiction or not be forced to feel that Yuna no longer has Tidus as an option. At the time of writing the script of FFX, there was no intention of creating a sequel.


They continue that FMV in X-2, that's Tidus coming back. Tidus says in the little cutscene on the perfect ending "I think they put all my memories togethor and made me" (or something like that)... So, I think he has sorta, BECAME real.
Essentially, this means that no matter how you slice it, Tidus only exists because of the Fayth.

[ama124]

If you omitte evidence from FFX-2? Then, it was put there as a fanservice, so that people could write fiction or not be forced to feel that Yuna no longer has Tidus as an option. At the time of writing the script of FFX, there was no intention of creating a sequel.

Actually i do believe that it was said that during the time they were still making ffx, there were intentions (discussions) of making a sequel. Correct me if i am wrong though.

[Tavrobel]

Not during production...
as far as offical channels go.

But when you write a story, you get to a point where you don't want to leave the world.

[tidus_rox]

Ok but wait... AUron was standing by Yuna (At Djose) while she was sneding and he was not affected... answers?

[Tavrobel]

Auron was present, but he wasn't standing anywhere NEAR Yuna. Since he was out of range, no effect.