No Love for the Samurai?

[Silvercry]

Hello all.

I played FF XI religiously back in the day, just before CoP was released. But a combination of frequent military deployments, a total PC hard drive crash, and an upset wife forced me to give up and cancel my account.

Now I may have a chance to begin again, since I’m out of he military, will be playing on the PS2 and my wife has better things to worry about. Before I quit I had two characters, one WAR aiming to be a SAM, and one WHM, with the SMN class change in her future. I'll most likely repeat this career path, because, uh, I dig katanas and the ability to summon a monster to do all the work for me, I guess.

Anyway the point is this: I've been keeping tabs on the game in the interim, and I've noticed that SAM's aren’t well liked, being one of classes that have the hardest time getting into parties. Is this accurate? And if so, why? On paper the SAM sounds baddass, but in the last Vana'diel census, they barely register as a choosen job at all.

Thoughts? Interpretations? Should I not waste my time with the SAM class (especially as a tank)?

[Markus. D]

I find them to ughhh... miss alot.

but that could just be bad luck for them at times I was with them.

[chionos]

All of the basic melee have hard times getting into xp just because there's so many to choose from. There's really no reason to overlook SAM; it's awesome for spike-damage BC's like a lot of the CoP missions, it can save a pt from wiping, and it can deliver skillchains like no other job. Endgame mobs especially can be obliterated by well timed SC's and the corresponding MBs. Nevertheless when people are making XP pts none of the benefits of having a SAM around come into play, so most of them give up and play another job that's easier to level. Most of the melee play out this way.

[Lionx]

I find them to ughhh... miss alot.

but that could just be bad luck for them at times I was with them.

Theres no inherent Acc down trait for SAMs like for any job >_>;

[Nakor TheBlue Rider]

chionos has a point. think about it like this:
theres only 6 spots in a party right.

-you know you NEED a healer, so a Whm is essential.
-you know you NEED a tank, the only 3 options are PLD, NiN, or Warrior (SAM cannot tank, they just are not made for it.)
-your gonna want someone with some kind of magic, usually a BLM, but SMN, RDM, even BRD is possible.

-your gonna want the remaining 3 spots to balance out whatever you have so far. if you have a BLM then you might want a RDM or BRD to refresh your WHM & BLM. if you have a BRD already you might be able to get 3 Melee.

Either Way you have a lot to choose from at this point: THF, MNK, SAM, DRK, DRG

so what happens is there is just SOOO many Melee to chose from and theres usually only 2-3 spots in a party for melee, that many melee find it hard to get groups.

SAM isnt any harder to get a group than anything else, in fact its probably much easier than being a high lvl DRG or WAR.

[Lionx]

What Nakor said is true until level 74, everyone will sub NIN,and there is no tank,just spam WS and mass kill things. By that time its :

Melee x4, BRD/NIN, and possibly a healer of some sort. Its not uncommon to see SAM/NIN, DRK/NIN MNK/NIN, THF/NIN , BRD/NIN and RDM/WHM parties at that level. Typically though, most people prefer WAR, MNK, NIN as melees, the rest are invited after those are all invited...

[Khaotic]

This may be true, but I never found it to make any sense, look at it like this.


Yes, you need one healer, however, you only need 1 healer, so if you were a healer, your chance at receiving an invite is 0 since the role is taken.

Yes, you need a tank, however, you only need 1 tank, so if you were a tank, your chance at receiving an invite is 0 since the role is taken.

Now, DD, you have MORE of a chance to receive the invite since 3 are needed, or more, per party, whereas if you were a healer/tank, you only have the chance if its for a replacement.

Then theres your refreshers, BRD and RDM, however, RDM is almost always accepted since it can both main heal, and refresh, as is BRD except it gives your partys extreme buffs instead of main healing.


In theory, I think everyone has the same chance at getting a party, though it might not seem that way, it basically comes down to what people think about each class, and what the leader thinks of you. Will a guy chose a DRG over a SAM? Technically, it is possible, the person could be a main job DRG and know the pain, and instead invite him due to pity. BRD and RDM are just more accepted because for one, there isn't many BRD's, so any party will take them the second they pop up, and RDM because they can refresh, debuff, main heal, and lots of other things.

I'm just rambling on because I'm bored, take this post as you will. Bottom line is, SAM's can get partys quite often, it just depends on your level, between 65 they can't open or close light skillchains, yet other jobs can, so that is frowned upon, but they still make great SATA partners and they can perform SATAWS very good with their 1 hit weaponskills.

[Del Murder]

The problem with that logic is that the ratio of melees to healers is quite large. Partly due to the fact that there are alot more DD jobs, partly due to the fact that people just like being attackers. Healers go quite quickly as far as I've noticed. Tanks not as much because there are more of them.

I like playing with SAMs. I like a variety, it makes the game more fun. I have yet to play with a COR and that is disappointing. Having the same old jobs in your party can get quite boring. I'm only level 30ish, but I'll certainly welcome a SAM whenever I see one out there.

[Silvercry]

The general consensus of these replies seem to be that SAM is a decent job (perhaps even as badass as I think it is as longs as the player knows what they're doing), yet don’t truly fit in in the exp party scheme. Seems like a bit of an inequity to me, I mean, how can a SAM achieve ultimate badass-ary in the end game if no one wants to party with them before that point?

On a slightly different, yet sort of related track, I was always curious about the notion of the 'exp party' in this game in the first place. Before I quit, I played with a group of friends (not yet a LS just because we had all stared about the same time had not yet gotten around to buying a link pearl yet), and I don’t think we ever just fought for the sake of getting exp. Instead, wet set up other goals (one day I might need some crystals for whatever I’m trying to synth, another day some one else might want to try out one of the easier missions/quests and needs some back up, etc) and exp and levels were just a natural consequence of these endeavors.

So, is level grinding (fighting for the sake of exp alone) truly the only way to advance?

[Miriel]

Honestly, I've leveled 3 jobs so far and of all the exp parties I've had, I've only partied with SAM a handful of times.

So I'm very unfamiliar with the job. And when forming parties, I don't see many SAMs seeking at all. If they were seeking, I'd have absolutely no problem inviting, even if I don't know the specifics of what that job will bring to the party.

And as far as I've experienced, my white mage picked up invites like lightening. Granted, I haven't hit that point where RDM starts to grab the invites away from WHMs, but still. My BLM got plenty of invites too. My SMN hardly ever gets invites which leads me to form parties instead of waiting to be invited. No one really wants or needs a SMN except when they can't get a RDM or a WHM. :o

[Garland]

The problem with samurai is they aren't growing with the times. SE is helping every other melee gain TP faster, and samurai is remaining stagnant. Sams used to be hailed for their ability to gain insane TP. Now every melee gains insane TP. Where's Samurai's niche? SE is killing samurai with neglect.

[Kuzotz]

WEll for XPing as more and more techniques and combos are found to make XPing more easier..Well the more the old stuff gets blottedout.

Bah I remember when you either had two choices in a PT. You can camp or you can roam. The funnest way to PT was to roam, but it takes a long time to level if the party doesn't know what it's doing. So camping becomes the main use and no one tries to roam their party anymore.

Once the Camping becomes big and huge.

Spots that are beneficial are forgotten at low levels(bubu) and more people use the spot they think is more reliable(dunes)..Anyway I've notice that game changes for better or worse and most of the time it goes both ways.

As better techniques are found and better ways are found. Less parts of the maps are used to level. People tell me you jsut can't PT in some spots, but you see you cna PT in some areas.You just can't set up a camp. No one roams anymore thus they think you can't PT or XP because Roaming has been forgotten...

Anyway the more we find better ways to XP. The less of the map gets used. I say this because mos tMMORPG's follow the same fate. Less areas are used, and more gets concentrated on XPing. There i smore to the game than that, and people do quest. But they do a lot of XPing befor ethat

I remember when you can do some missions at lower levels because players didn't put much in XPing, but as XPing became beter. Players started setting standards for each other on quest and missions. They get higher and higher as XPing gets better and better. Anyway it stops at a reasonable level eventually.. Then the game becomes rahter or not you like the dullness of XPing before you can truly have any fun.

Anyway with SAM. It use to be useful until players ofund a better way.Thus less poeple use SAM.Then they forget what SAM is used for eventually, and then boom SAM becomes some useless job like DRGs are considered.

Anyway none of you guys follow these tangents..Just I'm noticing a large majority of players are.

Anyway I just hope people start making PTs that roam in certain areas instead of camp..If they know what they are doing. In areas said to be impossible to PT if they can roam it then it can be beneficial, and fun for a change.

Anway I stopped playing FF11 about a year ago.So I don't know what new changes have really happened. SO don't rely on me for info lol.

edit-also SE keeps screwing around with the jobs in each update...Changing one job causes other jobs to adapt which some end up being left behind in the dust.

[Lionx]

At higher levels, merit pts are not uncommon to roam tons because they kill just that fast.

[Yeargdribble]

For endgame XP now there are a good deal of roving PTs. 4xWAR/NIN, BRD/NIN, RDM/WHM is probably the optimal setup. As puller (BRD/NIN) I tend to prefer to stay stationary anyway but such PTs can roam though I find it less efficient.

Either way, it doesn't matter because in a PT such as this you are killing a new mob every 10-20 seconds tops. Of course, for jobs like SAM to join one of these groups it's preferable that they use /NIN. What they lose in damage from their WAR sub they make up for in efficiency.

[Markus. D]

well there we go :]


... ummm, has anyone noticed the quote thing? its done in numbers o_o"

[Nakor TheBlue Rider]

SAM really does have a place in Exp partys.

they can help to create skillchains so that a BLM can MB.

Anyone Can skillchain but SAM's can do it a little faster.

SAM is just as useful as any other melee DD really. And SAM will get Just as Many invites as another Melee DD.

I play a DRK and i find SAM will ofter get chosen over me because they can create Skillchains more oftern because of thier faster TP gain.

[Fuego]

I have seen more than not people who really SUCK at the job . That being said alot of people who know nothing about the job or how to play it actually get the invites and create a horrid reputation of the job for future partys . thats not to say they could be having an off night ... i think we have all had those, but on the whole its ignorant people who don't read up on the job so they know what exactly they should be doing and act like war or pld or something. i still love the job and want to lvl mine soon but i think there is now a stygma attached to the job on the whole . i hope soon there will be a recovery period where we have the chance to change the horrible image to a positive one and make the job kick ass once more >.<

[Garland]

I wouldn't worry about job reputation too much. Every job has a bad one. I'll see if I can list them as I've tended to hear them. I don't think anyone pays them much mind anymore. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, and every job has a skeleton in its closet.

Bards, Rdms, Whms and Blms are spoiled primadonnas. Ranger used to be here.

Drgs are gimp immature noobs, and drks are emo immature noobs.

War, Mnk, Nin and blm are just bandwagon freeloaders. Ranger used to be here.

Bsts are antisocial and like to mpk - they ruin pt exp (darn brady guide)

I'm not sure how best to phrase it, but summoners are often tarnished by those who only want to be a DD, even when it's not practical.

Seems my mind draws a blank here. Can't think of anything else.

[Fuego]

I wouldn't worry about job reputation too much. Every job has a bad one. I'll see if I can list them as I've tended to hear them. I don't think anyone pays them much mind anymore. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, and every job has a skeleton in its closet.

Bards, Rdms, Whms and Blms are spoiled primadonnas. Ranger used to be here.

Drgs are gimp immature noobs, and drks are emo immature noobs.

War, Mnk, Nin and blm are just bandwagon freeloaders. Ranger used to be here.

Bsts are antisocial and like to mpk - they ruin pt exp (darn brady guide)

I'm not sure how best to phrase it, but summoners are often tarnished by those who only want to be a DD, even when it's not practical.

Seems my mind draws a blank here. Can't think of anything else.

LMAO i love the part "Drgs are gimp immature noobs, and drks are emo immature noobs." I was ROFL !
But i do agree that every job has a bad rep to some degree. And i hope that if ever i pt with some one i don't come across as one of the aforementioned . :tumble:

[Del Murder]

Pld is spotless! The true divine class!