Starter Pokemon for Pearl and Diamond revealed

[Erdrick Holmes]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v416/ocre3/40.jpg

We got a fire monkey here...

[KentaRawr!]

*sigh*... The designs aren't as classic as before.

[DK]

*sigh*... The designs aren't as classic as before.

These ones are way better than the emerald and sapphire ones, though.

[Tavrobel]

Is it lost to Nintendo the classic quality of Charmander, Squirtle, and Bulbasaur?

All of the ones after the original 150 (151 if you wanna get technical) suck.

[Lilliputian Hitcher]

One day they will run out of colours.

One day.

[Markus. D]

*hugs the chirpy bird thing*

<3

[DK]

Is it lost to Nintendo the classic quality of Charmander, Squirtle, and Bulbasaur?

All of the ones after the original 150 (151 if you wanna get technical) suck.

Nah Gold and Silver had some suave ones, but after that they just started overdoing it.

[Skarr]

Yikes.

[Moon Rabbits]

*sigh*... The designs aren't as classic as before.


IT'S A FUCKING PENGUIN. HOW IS THAT NOT CLASSIC AND AWESOME?

I'm taking the penguin. THE PENGUIN.

[Erdrick Holmes]

Why not the monkey? It flings flaming pieces of poo.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

Hmm...

Yeah, I do miss the originals, because they were pretty awesome ideas. Hopefully these will evolve in a good direction.

[Khaotic]

They need new starting elements! Tired of fire/grass/water - they need like psychic, fighting, _ _ _ _ _ _ for a change! and make the game harder so its not unbalanced!:greenie:

[Dark Paladin]

They need new starting elements! Tired of fire/grass/water - they need like psychic, fighting, _ _ _ _ _ _ for a change! and make the game harder so its not unbalanced!:greenie:

I agree. Or if they are grass/fire/water they should also be like i dunno grass/ice or fire/steel. Those ones still look cool though.

[Erdrick Holmes]

They do have some new type combos in this game that sound pretty nifty. Like they have one that's Steel and Fighting.

Also, the day and night time feature from Pokemon GSC will be back in this.

And also creatures with different genders will have different looks to them. Like a Wooper will have bigger head antenas if it's a male.

[Larahl]

After the Gold and Silver versions, I couldn't choose any of the staters.
None of them are likable like the classic designs.

[Rengori]

They all sorta suck since Gold and Silver.

[Lindy]

Oh boy, just what we needed, ANOTHER pokemon game.

Quick, someone film another Terminator movie!

[AdVenT]

Oh boy, just what we needed, ANOTHER pokemon game.

Quick, someone film another Terminator movie!

[moogle maniac]

The penguin is cute but i must agree with evryone else only the first 150 and the gold and silver pokemon are cool not the rest

[Erdrick Holmes]

Oh boy, just what we needed, ANOTHER pokemon game.

Quick, someone film another Terminator movie!

Oh great, just what we needed, ANOTHER Tales game.

Quick, someone make another Metroid game!

[Lindy]

Oh great, just what we needed, ANOTHER Tales game.

Quick, someone make another Metroid game!
Good thing they vary what goes on in Pokemon games.

Oh no wait.

[KentaRawr!]

Metroid isn't really a good example. We don't see many of those. And tales... well, we don't see many of those either.

=O

[Dynast-Kid]

But we see TONS of Megaman games...

[Rengori]

But we see TONS of Megaman games...
Silly goose, no one plays any of the new Megaman games.

[Dynast-Kid]

Which is why they should stop making them...

It kinda loses it's charm after the 64th game...

[Erdrick Holmes]

I think there's more metroids than Pokemon games. Lets count.

Metroid NES
Metroid 2 GB
Super Metroid
Metroid Prime
Metroid Fusion
Metroid Zero Mission
Metroid Prime 2
Metroid Pinball
Metroid Prime Hunters

Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow
Pokemon Pinball
Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal
Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2
Pokemon Collesium
Pokemon DX (the name escapes me)
And that Pokemon Puzzle game for the DS.

edit: I mainly said that at a crack and Lindz just to mess with him.

[KentaRawr!]

Oh yeah, I know. o.o

But I never knew there were more Metroid games than Pokemon games. My instincts told me otherwise. :(

[Erdrick Holmes]

There are a couple more games I just can't remember.
And I can NOT count Pokemon channel as a game.

[Lindy]

I think there's more metroids than Pokemon games. Lets count.

Metroid NES
Metroid 2 GB
Super Metroid
Metroid Prime
Metroid Fusion
Metroid Zero Mission
Metroid Prime 2
Metroid Pinball
Metroid Prime Hunters

Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow
Pokemon Pinball
Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal
Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2
Pokemon Collesium
Pokemon DX (the name escapes me)
And that Pokemon Puzzle game for the DS.

edit: I mainly said that at a crack and Lindz just to mess with him.
Yeah man, you totally messed with me good, oh boy, I need to get professional help for the messing that you did.

Good thing you missed out Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire and Fire Red/Leaf Green on that list, kinda forgot they existed eh? I know they were THAT bad and y'know, exactly the same as the other games, but you can't block them out forever.

In fact, lets go one step better :
http://www.gamefaqs.com/search/index.html?game=pokemon - 33 games total, 41 if you care to count the e-Reader titles and the GBA Video paks.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/search/index.html?game=Metroid - 9 games total

[Shoden]

I think there's more metroids than Pokemon games. Lets count.

Metroid NES
Metroid 2 GB
Super Metroid
Metroid Prime
Metroid Fusion
Metroid Zero Mission
Metroid Prime 2
Metroid Pinball
Metroid Prime Hunters

Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow
Pokemon Pinball
Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal
Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2
Pokemon Collesium
Pokemon DX (the name escapes me)
And that Pokemon Puzzle game for the DS.

edit: I mainly said that at a crack and Lindz just to mess with him.
Yeah man, you totally messed with me good, oh boy, I need to get professional help for the messing that you did.

Good thing you missed out Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald and Fire Red/Leaf Green which actually brings up the number of Pokemon games equal to the number of Metroid games. I think learning to count should be on your list to things to do, much, much higher up than trying to "mess" with me.


there's more. There was pokemon TCG games for the GBC too, "hey you pikachu" "pokemon snap" and more, there was also another pokemon pinball game

[DK]

I think there's more metroids than Pokemon games. Lets count.

Metroid NES
Metroid 2 GB
Super Metroid
Metroid Prime
Metroid Fusion
Metroid Zero Mission
Metroid Prime 2
Metroid Pinball
Metroid Prime Hunters

Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow
Pokemon Pinball
Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal
Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2
Pokemon Collesium
Pokemon DX (the name escapes me)
And that Pokemon Puzzle game for the DS.

edit: I mainly said that at a crack and Lindz just to mess with him.
Yeah man, you totally messed with me good, oh boy, I need to get professional help for the messing that you did.

Good thing you missed out Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald and Fire Red/Leaf Green which actually brings up the number of Pokemon games equal to the number of Metroid games. I think learning to count should be on your list to things to do, much, much higher up than trying to "mess" with me.


there's more. There was pokemon TCG games for the GBC too, "hey you pikachu" "pokemon snap" and more, there was also another pokemon pinball game

Not to mention some ghetto pokemon RPG I found a rom for today where you take the role of a pokemon.

[Lindy]

Yeah, that's the weird Mystery Dungeon games.

Joel.justgotowned.com

More at ten!

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Metroid
Metroid II: Return of Samus
Super Metroid
Metroid Fusion
Metroid Prime
Metroid Zero Misison
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Metroid Prime Pinball
Metroid Prime Hunters
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption

Pokemon Red/Green/Blue/Yellow
Pokemon Trading Card
Pokemon Snap
Pokemon Stadium
Pokemon Pinball
Hey You, Pikachu!
Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal
Pokemon Puzzle Challenge
Pokemon Trading Card 2
Pokemon Stadium 2
Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald
Pokemon Pinball: Ruby and Sapphire
Pokemon Colosseum
Pokemon Fire Red/Leaf Green
Pokemon Dash
Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness
Pokemon Mysterious Dungeon: Blue Rescue Team
Pokemon Trozei!
Pokemon Ranger
Pokemon Pearl & Diamond
Pokemon Battle Revolution

[Del Murder]

If there's a demand, they'll keep making them.

It got too complicated for me after Silver though.

Metroid also lost me with Prime.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

There's nothing wrong with the style of the Pokemon games, I think. Usually the new features are more than enough to keep me interested. The wi-fi capabilities will make it pretty good too. After all, it's all about the options.

Estimate what? 450-some pokemon x 6 pokemon to a team x 4 different moves x probably about 100 moves each. That's a good amount of viable team combinations. Getting to fight and trade with others over wi-fi will do much to improve the series.

I'm happy to see the day and night aspect returning, I was severly disappointed when they took it out after Gold and Silver.

[KentaRawr!]

First I'm like "Oh, more Metroid games than Poke'mon". Then Kishi comes in and is like "Lol no. Here's the list" and it's bigger than the Metroid List and I'm all flabergasted. O_O

Anyway, I want the monkey.

[Del Murder]

Yeah man, can't forget about Snap.

[Tavrobel]

Zapdos + Articuno + Mew + Mewtwo + Dewgong + Charizard is winnar.
What team did you used to use?

And as far as new elements for starting Pokemon games, what three elements works in a rock/paper/scissors styles like Fire/Grass/Water? The closest thing you can get is Psychic/Dark/Fighting, but they aren't meant to be started with, because Dark is immune to Psychic, and the stats of the original three were balanced against each other, and all three of their elemental attacks were special, while they started with Normal attacks. Darks gets wrecked by physical attacks, Psychic is too fast, and Fighting would be rigged/severely gimped against the lower level starting Pokemon (of which are mostly Normal/Flying).

EDIT: Pokemon Snap was a pain. Fun, but painful. That 10,000 Mew killed me, and my sister had to get it for me.

[I Took the Red Pill]

What team did you used to use?

Blastoise + Mewtwo + Hypno + Pidgeot + Zapdos + Moltres

This deserves a thread of its own IMHO.

[Skarr]

Too much to handle...quick somebody give me a Tim Shaffer game.

[DK]

What team did you used to use?

Arcanine + Lapras + Raichu + Venusar + Golem + whatever. My last one always usually interchanged to fit whoever I was fighting at the time.

[Del Murder]

Snorlax, Lapras, Alakazam, Gengar, Rhydon, Jolteon.

Using Mewtwo was so cheap, and I never liked the birds because there were better pokemon out there with their element, and without the Icebeam weakness.

Basically, though, nothing beats Snorlax with Amnesia and Icebeam.

[DK]

Articuno was valid out of the birds, Never had much time for Zapdos and Moltres was fail, imho.

[Tavrobel]

Well, now that they added those Steel and Dark Pokemon, Mewtwo is offically stunted from use. My Mewtwo's Fire Punch still does reliable damage enough to pwn Dark Pokemon, though.

As far as teams go, it's quite surprising that most teams have a surprising weakness to Rock Pokemon. If only they had a more reliable move than Rock Slide (95% at 80 Attack Power).

EDIT: I didn't use Zapdos until after I started needing six Pokemon to compete in Pokemon Stadium. Seemed like a reasonable fit, as most of my Pokemon are reasonably fast.

[Spammerman]

And as far as new elements for starting Pokemon games, what three elements works in a rock/paper/scissors styles like Fire/Grass/Water? The closest thing you can get is Psychic/Dark/Fighting, but they aren't meant to be started with, because Dark is immune to Psychic, and the stats of the original three were balanced against each other, and all three of their elemental attacks were special, while they started with Normal attacks. Darks gets wrecked by physical attacks, Psychic is too fast, and Fighting would be rigged/severely gimped against the lower level starting Pokemon (of which are mostly Normal/Flying).

electric/water/rock

[Psychotic]

Three constants were Lapras, Snorlax, and Articuno, and the rest would be Jolteon/surfing Raichu, Slowbro/Starmie, and Mewtwo/Alakazam.

[Tavrobel]

Rock does not do extra damage to Electric as Grass did to Water, nor does Electric become weakened against Rock Pokemon.

[Rengori]

Rock does not do extra damage to Electric as Grass did to Water, nor does Electric become weakened against Rock Pokemon.
Right, but most Rock Pokemon have ground as a second element.

And as for the what team did you use question, it changed throughout each playthrough. Though early on anything with sand-attack works fine.

[DK]

Rock does not do extra damage to Electric as Grass did to Water, nor does Electric become weakened against Rock Pokemon.

Electric moves don't effect rock Pokemon though, do they? at least I remember so, I haven't played it for ages, mind. At any rate they barely effected it.

[Hambone]

Must...have...penguin.

[Tavrobel]

Rock does not do extra damage to Electric as Grass did to Water, nor does Electric become weakened against Rock Pokemon.

Electric moves don't effect rock Pokemon though, do they? at least I remember so, I haven't played it for ages, mind. At any rate they barely effected it.

When you attack a Pokemon that is PURE Rock, then Electric does do regular damage. In the case of Aerodactyl (which is also Flying), Electric attacks only did a multiplier of 2x after Red/Blue (where the elements had incorrect prioritiy ratings: for instance, one could use Ice Beam, and kill Gyrados in one hit, when it should not have).

However, as Rengori pointed out, most Rock Pokemon have Ground as a secondary element. The few that did not have Ground had a weakness to Electric, which also confirms that Electric affects Rock normally.

In the original games, Psychic actually did extra damage to Ghost, even when it was not supposed to. This occured because all of the Ghost Pokemon had the second attribute Poison, so they did the math wrong. Wierd, no?

[Erdrick Holmes]

Feraligatr+Lanturn+Alakazam+Mewtwo+Lugia+Tyranitar=pwned.

[Malboro_Menace]

Charizard, Raichu, Mew, Lapras, Pidgeot and Golem was good. Mew would make up for the elements I didn't have so it owned for me.

Whenever they release a new set of games they always put in enough new extra stuff for it to still be enjoyable. I got Emerald yesterday and I'm lookin forward to playing that but this using Wi-Fi... That will be so mad.

[Del Murder]

Three constants were Lapras, Snorlax, and Articuno, and the rest would be Jolteon/surfing Raichu, Slowbro/Starmie, and Mewtwo/Alakazam.
A man after my own (poke)heart.

Articuno was by far the best of them, but Lapras was an institution in my group and I didn't really care for another ice type.

[DK]

I liked it every now and then because I could give it fly, and it was a better bird type than the normal ones, Pidgeot and Spearow etc, but Lapras is indeed a better Ice/Water type.

Arcanine is still my favourite pokemon though. :}

[Skarr]

Arcanine is still my favourite pokemon though. :}

Agreed. *does the watery puppy eyes routine*

[Zeromus_X]

Oh gosh, it's been awhile. I don't know if I can remember what I used to use, but I usually just used the ones I had for the whole game, and never bothered with the 'legendary' ones.

Especially any kitty ones. :cat: Snorlax can count as a kitty, can't he?

Anyway, yeah, the designs do look a bit bland, but you can't really blame them after how many monsters that have been made so far. (Almost 500?)

I haven't played any Pocket Monsters games in a very long time. I think I tried one of the GBA ones, which was fun. I might snag any of these, when they come out.

[Maux]

I haven't played any pocket monsters games since ruby, however the look of the penguin may make me do otherwise. I love penguins, huge fan, and will use them to take over the world... Anyway, I like it, I will probably buy it eventually(after all the FF games and a PS3/and whatever system I'll have to buy to play this). After 500 characters and a large demand still, the designs have gotten worse and yet it is still decent, it will continue for awhile.

[Tavrobel]

Arcanine is still my favourite pokemon though. :}

Winnar!

I feel like an ass for hi-jacking the thread, but I wanna ask.

What moves did you teach your Pokemon?

[Zeromus_X]

(On that topic) I also wanted to add how inconvenient it was in the latest game I played (Sapphire) to teach by monsters all the Hidden Moves, as you can't delete them until you find the Move Tutor, who is usually found relatively late in the game. Or maybe my selection sucked, whatever.

[Shoden]

in Yellow it was Mewtwo, Articuno, Alakazam, Snorlax, Charizard and Venusaur but in G/S/C It was Suicune, Typhlosion, Houndoom, Tyranitar, Sneasel and Charizard. Fr/Lg it was Groudon, Tyranitar, Sceptile, Salamence, Aggron and Flygon. I use similar lineups on netbattle.

[Erdrick Holmes]

Okay here goes

Feraligatr: Hydro Pump, Surf, Cut, and Ice Punch
Tyranitar: Crunch, Rock Slide, Hyper Beam, Strength
Lanturn: Flash, Surf, Waterfall, Thunder
Alakazam: Psychic, Future Sight, Ice Punch, Recover
Lugia: Fly, Aeroblast, Future Sight, Recover
Mewtwo: Psychic, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Recover

[Skarr]

Milotic and Ryechu made a good a team when in a double battle.

[Tavrobel]

Lots of Recoverers, eh?

Dewgong: Ice Beam, Surf, Sleep Talk, Rest
Zapdos: Drill Peck, Thunder Wave, Thunder, Steel Wing
Articuno: Fly, Sky Attack, Ice Beam, Blizzard (I really should get rid of that Sky attack for something not useless)
Mew: Psychic, Blizzard, Ancientpower, Metronome/Softboiled
Mewtwo: Recover, Psychic, Fire Punch, Shadow Ball
Charizard: Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Earthquake, Wing Attack

[Twilight Edge]

What team did you used to use?


Red/
-Mewtwo+the three birds+snorlax+Chrizard/Blastoise/Venusaur

Silver
-Ampharos+Ho-oh+two Snorlax(one for rollout and the other Hyper beam)+Magmar+Kadabra(I didn't bother to trade)

Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald
-Blaziken+Gardevoir+Magneton+Groudon+Kyogre+Rayquaza

[DK]

God this is gonna be hard to remember, but here goes:

Arcanine: Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Take Down and something else, can't remember. Probably Firespin
Raichu: Thundershock, Thunderbolt, Thunder and the one that caused Paralysis. Forget. D:
Venusaur: Sleep Powder, Razor Leaf, Solarbeam and Cut
Golem: Rock Slide, Dig, Earthquake and something else.
Lapras: Surf, Ice Beam, Blizzard and Sing, maybe, although I could have changed it for something else. Probably did, actually, but eh.

Then I use too many sixth pokemon to be arsed to list

[Zeromus_X]

Thunder Wave. I also enjoyed that attack.

Well, not when it was used against me.

[DK]

That's the one, thanks. Yeah a fast Raichu with Thunder Wave and then strong special attacks = Destruction :}

[Tavrobel]

The only thing better than the original Thunder is 100% accuracy Thunder.

[Old Manus]

I always had a tactic where I would have one super powerful pokemon that would never lose and the rest were used for fly, flash etc :cry:

[Shoden]

That's the one, thanks. Yeah a fast Raichu with Thunder Wave and then strong special attacks = Destruction :}

A ground pokemon with earthquake would splat Raichu.

[Del Murder]

You're making me bust out my old Pokemon Yellow for this!

Rhydon: Horn Drill, Rock Slide, Earthquake, Leer
Lapras: Double Team, Body Slam, Surf, Ice Beam
Gengar: Dream Eater, Confuse Ray, Night Shade, Hypnosis
Alakazam: Psychic, Reflect, Recover, Psybeam
Jolteon: Thunder Wave, Pin Missle, Thunderbolt, Thunder
Snorlax: Rest, Amnesia, Ice Beam, Body Slam

I forgot that I would switch out Rhydon for Venusaur when situations demanded it (basically when my opponent had water types over electric types):
Venusaur: Razor Leaf, Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, Solarbeam

[DK]

A ground pokemon with earthquake would splat Raichu.

Yes, that's kind of why you have 6 pokemon with you and why you vary their elements, to counter-act problems such as this. Hence your ground pokemon would be destroyed by my Lapras or Venusaur.

[ShunNakamura]

Arcanine: Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Take Down and something else, can't remember. Probably Firespin
Raichu: Thundershock, Thunderbolt, Thunder and the one that caused Paralysis. Forget. D:
Venusaur: Sleep Powder, Razor Leaf, Solarbeam and Cut
Golem: Rock Slide, Dig, Earthquake and something else.
Lapras: Surf, Ice Beam, Blizzard and Sing, maybe, although I could have changed it for something else. Probably did, actually, but eh.

.......

Yes, that's kind of why you have 6 pokemon with you and why you vary their elements, to counter-act problems such as this. Hence your ground pokemon would be destroyed by my Lapras or Venusaur.


Flygon could sweep everyone but Lapras on this team. And even lapras could take more then half damage before Flygon bit the dust.

Something that would cook flygon though would be if you managed to get a hidden power ice on Raichu(Raichu could be faster unlike lapras). Another thing is if Raichu had surf it would at least be able to scare off most ground types(Flygon, Claydol[maybe], Swampert, Quagsire, whiscash, and likely groudon(uber for a reason) being the ground types that don't mind surf all that much). Most ground types could possibly survive and unstabbed surf(as long as they are only 2x weak to it); however, even a little damage to them prior will make them fodder for Raichu with surf.

And anyways, what is cooler then a surfing rat?:tongue:

[DK]

I don't even know what a Flygon is, so I don't really care. :}

[Tavrobel]

It's one of them new ones, kyon. Pay no mind to the "balance" and "de-ubering" that come after the 2nd gen.

[Maxico]

I remember an Umbreon (that's one of those crappy ones from Silver or something that nobody really knows about.

With Toxic, Confusion, Mean Look and Rest was the best thing ever.

It doesn't have any direct attacks, it just mean looks them so they can't change and takes a nap whenever they get an attack through.

Then they just tear themselfs apart.

It was brilliant.


But that's about as far as tactics got with me. I just had things with cool pictures and leveled them to the point at which they could thwap anything that got in their way.

[DK]

Yeah I never played anything after Gold and Silver. I tried to play Emerald and Sapphire but the ROMS either never worked or got some crap about the battery not working with the Emu, and I can't find a copy to buy, so yeah. That's my team from Pokemon Red, and I'm happy enough with it to know I can take anyone one with it on Red/Blue/Yellow and give them a run for their money.

[Toodleena]

I really wish I hadn't made that deal with myself to always choose the water Pokemon....
Now I want the grass one! But I must stay true to loving monkeys.... rats. This is hard.

[Polnareff]

I don't get the MM bashing, especially towards the newer games. The newer games, like Rockman ZX (yes, I have played this, at least the import anyway), Mega Man Battle Network 6, and Megaman X8 (well, okay, MMX8 is not technically new) kick ass. Plus every other game the MM series in question always changes, so you can't say that the series is being milked, now can you?

Now that I've played Mega Man defender once today I can quit.

But anyway, judging from that screenshot, it looks like Nintendo is reaching for old animals to stick new types on, which is kinda weird. Personally I'd like a more open-ended setup where you can pick what type of starter you want. It's not gonna break the game or anything if that's what Nintendo thinks.

How do I know? Well, I bred a bunch of Pokemon in FR, and got all these eggs, let them hatch, and went back to Pallet Town to see if it would in fact be easier to fight with any other type in the beginning but Fire/Water/Grass. It wasn't. In fact, it was harder. If Nintendo can find the balance like they did in a few of the earlier games then they won't have any problem broadening the range of starters.

[Hambone]

Okay...in my team,

I had a Blastoise, Jolteon, Mewtwo, Dragonite, Venusaur, and an Arcanine. All of which were at lvl. 100.

[Evastio]

I like the grass and water starters in Pearl and Diamond. :)

In Silver I used Nidoking, Houndoom, Tyranitar, Porygon2, Venusaur, and Blastoise.

In Leafgreen I used Nidoking, Tyranitar, Flygon, Aggron, Blastoise, and Venusaur.


I don't even know what a Flygon is, so I don't really care. :}
Click this link (http://www.psypokes.com/dex/pokedex.php?id=330&view=all) to see why Flygon is one of my favorite Pokemon. :)

[Kuzotz]

Why can't they just change the starting types..

Like have Ghost,Dragon,Rock.

[Tavrobel]

I'm not explainging it AGAIN; please refer to one of my previous posts. First off, Ghosts doesn't have any resistance or advantage over Dragon/Rock, Rock would wreck Dragon, and Dragon would have so high stats, that the game would be completely thrown off balance.

There's nothing else that they can change the starting types to without throwing off the beginning balance; why don't people understand this?

[Elite Lord Sigma]

I'll probably get the turtle. This may change if I don't like its evolutionary chain, though.

[ShunNakamura]

There's nothing else that they can change the starting types to without throwing off the beginning balance; why don't people understand this?

Because it doesn't? The common one being said of course is dark/fighting/psychic. Rock/paper/scisor setup. And starting as fighting could make the begining real fun if the early pokemon types were flying. You would have to work around it.

You mentioned early on types. First psychics don't have to be fast. For slow psychics you have Slowbro, Slowking, Wobbufet, Exeggcutor, Chimecho, Hypno, Lunatone, Solrock, Metagross, Claydol, Gardevoir, Medicham, and Grumpig who all below or at average speed(list is in order of slowest to fastest). Just for referance The unevolved Abra is 20 points faster then the fastest of the ones listed(and 120 faster then the slowest). Therefore the psychic would not have to be fast or even flimsy defensive wise.

Dark gets recked by physical attacks? True thier only weaknesses are on the physical side(bug and fighting). However, that doesn't mean physical attacks beat the crap out of dark. Take a look at Umbreon. That thing is a real pain to kill if it is set up right. Massive defense on both ends and good hp. You also got Tyranitar with the same physical defense and a bit more hp(though added weaknesses). It is just they don't give many dark types defenses, focusing them more on offense(sharpedo and cacturne being examples).

Other triangles are(in rock/paper/scisor(they all beat the other))- Ice/Rock/Ground(Ice is weak to rock and not strong vs it, rock is weak vs ground both ways, ground is weak to ice and not strong vs it), Steel/Ground/Ice(steel is weak vs ground, Ground is weak to ice, Ice is weak to steel).

Those are just two off the top of my head for the most part. Don't feel like studying a chart for ages.

[Old Manus]

POKEMON IS SERIOUS BUSINESS.

[Tavrobel]

Because it doesn't? The common one being said of course is dark/fighting/psychic. Rock/paper/scisor setup. And starting as fighting could make the begining real fun if the early pokemon types were flying. You would have to work around it.

You mentioned early on types. First psychics don't have to be fast. For slow psychics you have Slowbro, Slowking, Wobbufet, Exeggcutor, Chimecho, Hypno, Lunatone, Solrock, Metagross, Claydol, Gardevoir, Medicham, and Grumpig who all below or at average speed(list is in order of slowest to fastest). Just for referance The unevolved Abra is 20 points faster then the fastest of the ones listed(and 120 faster then the slowest). Therefore the psychic would not have to be fast or even flimsy defensive wise.

Dark gets recked by physical attacks? True thier only weaknesses are on the physical side(bug and fighting). However, that doesn't mean physical attacks beat the crap out of dark. Take a look at Umbreon. That thing is a real pain to kill if it is set up right. Massive defense on both ends and good hp. You also got Tyranitar with the same physical defense and a bit more hp(though added weaknesses). It is just they don't give many dark types defenses, focusing them more on offense(sharpedo and cacturne being examples).

Other triangles are(in rock/paper/scisor(they all beat the other))- Ice/Rock/Ground(Ice is weak to rock and not strong vs it, rock is weak vs ground both ways, ground is weak to ice and not strong vs it), Steel/Ground/Ice(steel is weak vs ground, Ground is weak to ice, Ice is weak to steel).

Those are just two off the top of my head for the most part. Don't feel like studying a chart for ages.

What you forget, is the concept of immunity. Darks are immune to Psychic. I don't see fire being x0 against water, nor do I see water x0 against grass. Being immune from Psychic and Ghost, while being effective against both is not rigged in their favor? Let's not even mention Daytime/Nighttime (which I will admit could be used in balancing, but Nighttime is ftw, unless you don't play Pokemon that often). They don't have to defend against ANYTHING because they have taken out the best (maybe not best, but rather, the most popular one) element. Unlike Ghost and Normal, both were mutually nullified, but it takes a Normal Pokemon an entire turn to allow them to damage Ghosts with Normal attacks; and that is not even all Normals.

Slow Psychics. Out of the lists I see so far, how many Slow Psychics have there been? Two? Less? I don't bring in defense, because it varies (wildly, sometimes) from each Psychic to Psychic (in the case of Slowbro, a very TIGHT defense, while Alakazam isn't quite the fan).

You mention a weakness against Bugs, but how many Bug attacks that do damage and are not Pokemon unique are there? Two? Three (the last time I checked). None of them do significant damage (or if you want to talk about the beginning, insignificant damage).

Ice does extra damage to Rock, Rock does extra damage to Ice
Rock is halved by Ground, Ground does extra to Rock
Ground does normal damage to Ice, Ice does extra damage to Ground

Steel does extra damage to Ice, Steel is halved by Ground
Ground does extra damage to Steel, Ground does normal damage to Ice
Ice does extra damage to Ground, Ice is halved by Steel


Fire does extra damage to Grass, Fire is halved by Water
Water does extra damage to Fire, Water is halved by Grass
Grass does extra damage to Water, Grass is halved by Fire

All in favor of Ice?
Yay.

Unfortunately, most Steels have high defense ratings. GG Ground.

See the difference? And unlike the other lements, the stats of the brginning three Pokemon (from Red/Blue/Green) are very similar, despite variations. They are also all special elements.

Let's not even bring Physical/Special attack type differentiations into this, Ground/Rock being physical, Ice being Special. I could also bring colors that represent each element, but that would be childish (but totally a factor to weigh in). Everyone likes staring at a screen for long periods of time. Those screens just happen to comprised of Red, Blue, and Green, not LightBlue, Brown, and DarkBrown.

[Skyblade]

Espeon, Umbreon, Alakazam, My Starter, Gengar, and Lapras.

Sableye's Dark/Ghost combination is one of the most powerful in the game, giving it immunities to Psychic, Fighting, and Normal attacks, and no true weaknesses (granted, Foresight can make it weak against fighting, but it wastes a turn). It's a shame its stats aren't that good.

I'm still hoping they'll come out with a Pokemon: Black version, where you can actually join Team Rocket/Aqua/Magma/Snag'em/Cipher and put your ultra powered Pokemon to good use (ie: gaining control of the organization, terrorizing people, and taking over the world). I've wanted a game like that since I first beat the original Nugget bridge and I wasn't allowed to say "yes" to the Team Rocket member.

[JKTrix]

Neither of these starters particularly jump out at me, but i'm not too worried. This game will have access to the entire Pokemon line (just like all the other Pokemon games have 'backwards compatible' monsters), so I'm guaranteed to have at least 150 Pokemon I'll like.

[Maxico]

Wait, people still care about this stuff?

I thought we were just being nostalgic.

[ShunNakamura]

What you forget, is the concept of immunity. Darks are immune to Psychic. I don't see fire being x0 against water, nor do I see water x0 against grass. Being immune from Psychic and Ghost, while being effective against both is not rigged in their favor?


What is the goal of the triangle? It is the goal for one to be able to beat one of the other three but able to be beaten by the remaining on. Doesn't matter how it is done. The concept remains the same. Not like you would use grass attacks on a fire type afterall unless you ran out of pp in other moves. So the fact that dark is immune to psychic is moot. The only point that matters is that dark beats psychic, fighting beats dark, and psychic beats figthing(though if you really want to get into it I use Machamp as my psychic killer on netbattle.... Machamp is a beast if played right. Alakazam at max power can't one hit him, and he can one hit alakazam with Hidden Power ghost fairly easily. Hariyama is another fighting type that if you need can be fielded against psychics).



Slow Psychics. Out of the lists I see so far, how many Slow Psychics have there been? Two? Less? I don't bring in defense, because it varies (wildly, sometimes) from each Psychic to Psychic (in the case of Slowbro, a very TIGHT defense, while Alakazam isn't quite the fan).


Err... that list was the SLOW pokemon. 80 base is average. Just average. If I have a pokemon with 80 base I don't even bother trying to get it to outrun other(unless that is all it gots).... it is too dratted slow. However, if you want to be technical, anyone that appeared on the list before Metagross is a slow psychic(below average speed).



You mention a weakness against Bugs, but how many Bug attacks that do damage and are not Pokemon unique are there? Two? Three (the last time I checked). None of them do significant damage (or if you want to talk about the beginning, insignificant damage).


Hmm... Well lets see Ninjask with silverwind or Hidden Power Bug can wipe the floor with psychics(trust me, Ninjask being my fav is almost always fielded on my teams, and if played right is a heck of a sweaper... even with *weak* bug moves).

You have anyone who can learn megahorn. Anyone who can learn hidden power and gets stab for the bug typing(Armaldo can easily kill psychics).

Early on while the attacks are weaker so is the psychic's defense. So it should balance out. Plus hopefully the bug moves will become more prominent.



Ice does extra damage to Rock, Rock does extra damage to Ice
Rock is halved by Ground, Ground does extra to Rock
Ground does normal damage to Ice, Ice does extra damage to Ground

Perhaps you should study your charts? Ice is not super effective vs rock. At least not in the latest generation(I just double checked even).
The triangle here is this. Ice beats ground, Rock beats ice, Ground beats rock. The big problem here is dual typing could VERY easily break it.


Steel does extra damage to Ice, Steel is halved by Ground
Ground does extra damage to Steel, Ground does normal damage to Ice
Ice does extra damage to Ground, Ice is halved by Steel

Here it is once again fairly obvious. Steel beats Ice, Ground Beats Steel(Unless it is skarmory), and Ice beats ground.



Fire does extra damage to Grass, Fire is halved by Water
Water does extra damage to Fire, Water is halved by Grass
Grass does extra damage to Water, Grass is halved by Fire

The current one, Fire Beats grass, Water Beats fire, and Grass beats water(maybe, so many waters are part ice that that isn't guaranteed).



Unfortunately, most Steels have high defense ratings. GG Ground.

Hmm... Odd cause on NB I always can fry the enemy Steel fairly easily with ground(skarmory the is the exception). Of course if the ground is also part rock..... end of story. And if it really bugs ya, lets just have the steel evolve as part rock or electric later(like Aggron and Magneton.... 4x weakness for the win). Or even Steel/Poison or Steel/Fire for new typings.



See the difference?
Only minor inconsequential differences that don't amount to much.

[Tavrobel]

though if you really want to get into it I use Machamp as my psychic killer on netbattle.... Machamp is a beast if played right. Alakazam at max power can't one hit him, and he can one hit alakazam with Hidden Power ghost fairly easily. Hariyama is another fighting type that if you need can be fielded against psychics).

That's the point. There are so many moves now, that you could find a way to counter ANYTHING.

The point of the Triangle can be easily accomplished. My concern is whether or not it can be as best as it should be.


Err... that list was the SLOW pokemon. 80 base is average. Just average. If I have a pokemon with 80 base I don't even bother trying to get it to outrun other(unless that is all it gots).... it is too dratted slow. However, if you want to be technical, anyone that appeared on the list before Metagross is a slow psychic(below average speed).

Yes, they are slow. What I was referring to was "how many people do you see using slow Psychics in this group of people?" Sorry for being unclear. I can see how that could be construed in the way you took it.


Hmm... Well lets see Ninjask with silverwind or Hidden Power Bug can wipe the floor with psychics(trust me, Ninjask being my fav is almost always fielded on my teams, and if played right is a heck of a sweaper... even with *weak* bug moves).

You have anyone who can learn megahorn. Anyone who can learn hidden power and gets stab for the bug typing(Armaldo can easily kill psychics).

Early on while the attacks are weaker so is the psychic's defense. So it should balance out. Plus hopefully the bug moves will become more prominent.

So you admit that they are not yet prominent. Of course, we shall have to see whether or not this new game will change that. Not that I'll be around (I stopped after Silver).

Weak meaning Leech Life (atk 20).


Perhaps you should study your charts? Ice is not super effective vs rock. At least not in the latest generation(I just double checked even).
The triangle here is this. Ice beats ground, Rock beats ice, Ground beats rock. The big problem here is dual typing could VERY easily break it.

In old school, Ice attack > Rock defense. Articuno using an Ice Beam 4x hits an Aerodactyl. Of course, Ice defense < Rock attack.

The problem is that there are an endless array of dual types in the newest generation. If Grass/Fire/Water worked so far, then it'll keep working. There's no need to rebalance to add in new types.

How many Ice alone Pokemon can you think of? (I'll check later, I'm coming up blank, but the closest I can think of is Jynx, which is Psychic, which should habve no bearing against Rock or Ground).

Rock alone? (actually there might be quire a few, Sudowoodo is one prominent one).

Ground alone (ok, this one is easy, Dugtrio, amongst many others).

If you can't think of at least six (total), then Nintendo is going to have a VERY hard time to think of new designs to fit them.


Here it is once again fairly obvious. Steel beats Ice, Ground Beats Steel(Unless it is skarmory), and Ice beats ground.

This is fairly obvious, but I find it skeptical at best to be usable.


The current one, Fire Beats grass, Water Beats fire, and Grass beats water(maybe, so many waters are part ice that that isn't guaranteed).

Blastoise was not Ice, but Bulbasaur was part Poison. However, this had little bearing, as all three of the Pokemon were Special users.


Hmm... Odd cause on NB I always can fry the enemy Steel fairly easily with ground(skarmory the is the exception). Of course if the ground is also part rock..... end of story. And if it really bugs ya, lets just have the steel evolve as part rock or electric later(like Aggron and Magneton.... 4x weakness for the win). Or even Steel/Poison or Steel/Fire for new typings.

Okay, I need to stop making my Charizard Earthquake everyone. Because it works so well...


Only minor inconsequential differences that if taken advantage of don't amount to much would ruin the new generation of starters.

[Mo-Nercy]

Torchic's blue now?

[ShunNakamura]

Before I get into this something I forgot to mention. Since I was naming possible triangles off my head Ice was involved alot cause I know its strengths and weaknesses very well(I accepted to do a mono-ice team challenge on netbattle). Therefor, I am more aware of how it would fit in a triangle. Also I would like to see more *good* ice types(I say it that way cause many of them are more then usable even competatively.... but it takes some work).



That's the point. There are so many moves now, that you could find a way to counter ANYTHING.

Well that is the point. You should be able to counter anything as long as you try. In Crystal I always used the grass starter to kill the fire starter. And I have made many a mono-grass team on NB capable of standing against fire types fairly well, though a whole team of fires would be a pain in the *bleep*. Though the one time it happened I managed to pull a 1-0 victory.



The point of the Triangle can be easily accomplished. My concern is whether or not it can be as best as it should be.

Which I don't think is being done currently. The problem is most water types(even if not part ice) learn ice-beam. Which hurts nearly as much as a firetypes fire attack. Of course water holds the advantage thanks to stab, but most grass types moves are weaker then ice beam(even afterstab if memory serves).



Yes, they are slow. What I was referring to was "how many people do you see using slow Psychics in this group of people?" Sorry for being unclear. I can see how that could be construed in the way you took it.

Ah I see now. Anyways I do. Gardy is by far my favorite psychic type. I wouldn't dream of trying to kill her with Machamp(same with slowbro and a few others..... too high of defense). Gardy is a beast with Psychic/Thunderbolt/Calm Mind/Willowisp[swapable for reflect so that guts doesn't get ya].

Another popular is Exeggcutor. This guy is another monster. Also fairly popular on NB(back when I regularly got on).

The slow duo(slowbro/slowking) are good, though I don't care for thier appearance. I see slowbro at least fairly common on NB(at least back when I regularly got on).

Wobbufet is an uber. So annoyingly strong that he is not allowed in standard competitive play on some NB servers.

Grumpig, Hypno, Solrock, and Lunatone I I see from time to time though there stat total is low enough that they have a hard time against the common mainstream like Salamence and all them.

Chimecho just has such awful stats that it is mostly unusable as a whole(I think healbealing in the lower groupings is all it realy does; though my memory may be far off here. Never used the guy myself).

Metagross is likely one of the most(if not most) common psychics to see out there. Though he is used as a physical sweaper. Nasty little guy he is. My brother thinks he is so strong as to be cheap and refuses to touch him even for mono-psychic teams.

Medicham. Even worse then Metagross when used right. Thanks to its trait its attack is even HIGHER than Slaking's! If this guy(choice banded) hits you it WILL leave a dent. Funny when Hi-Jump Kick misses. I just about OHKO'ed myself with it before :p(I believe if he misses Blissey it is an instant KO for Medicham :D).

Anyways many of them are used(even competitively) to answer your question.



So you admit that they are not yet prominent. Of course, we shall have to see whether or not this new game will change that. Not that I'll be around (I stopped after Silver).

No not overly prominent but that has been somthing needed fixed for ages. It is the reason bug types are so weak(a decent stabbed attack would go a long ways for some of those borderline bugs). It would be the same if grass was like that or ice.

Question... could bug be put in a triangle? A quick lookie for me suggests that it wouldn't. Stinks cause if a bug was a starter some decent attacks for them would likely turn up or become slightly more obtainable.



In old school, Ice attack > Rock defense. Articuno using an Ice Beam 4x hits an Aerodactyl. Of course, Ice defense < Rock attack.

I'll admit I didn't use ice types before; However, my charts for G/S/C show that Ice wasn't weak to rock. And in R/B/Y my charts say the same. However, Arti's Ice beam is by far powerful enough to one hit just about anything that is 2x weak to it(particually before the special split[348 special attack.......only 20 points lower then Alakazam, plus stab!]).



The problem is that there are an endless array of dual types in the newest generation. If Grass/Fire/Water worked so far, then it'll keep working. There's no need to rebalance to add in new types.

However it wouldn't be hard for duals to ruin the Grass/Fire/Water triangle. Some people fear it may already be done with the penguin if it evolves to Water/Ice. Water/Ice will likely beat the Grass type unless the grass type becomes grass/steel.

Many fear the turtle will become Grass/Ground. Which will give it much more of the chance to beat the fire type(stabbed EQ HURTS).

etc....



How many Ice alone Pokemon can you think of? (I'll check later, I'm coming up blank, but the closest I can think of is Jynx, which is Psychic, which should habve no bearing against Rock or Ground).

I beleive there are two pure types(so a pure ice starter would be nice). They are Glaile(and his unevolved form snorunt) and Regice. I believe all the others are dual types. Many being dualed with water.


Rock alone? (actually there might be quire a few, Sudowoodo is one prominent one).

Pure rock are-- Sudowoodo, Regirock, and Nosepass off the top of my head. Let me double check. So a pure rock starter would be nice.



Ground alone (ok, this one is easy, Dugtrio, amongst many others).

6 different evolution chains have pure ground in them. 1 of them is only an unevolved form though(this I HAD too look up).



This is fairly obvious, but I find it skeptical at best to be usable.

Why not? If it is cause of ice. Trust me even Piloswine can KO ice weak foes(though even better if they are earth weak). If it cause of earth... Well I wouldn't leave my Metagross in on Marowak unless I knew I would go first and would land a OHKO. However, Marowak is insanely slow so that should be easily. I also wouldn't like my Metagross to go against Donphan one on one. That could equal pain real fast. And Metagross is one of the(if not the) strongest steel type. So no questiong on ground beating steel. Particually if we get a good one(Groudon is beast and pure ground for example).

And Steel can take ice.



Okay, I need to stop making my Charizard Earthquake everyone. Because it works so well...


Pretty much. A team without an EQ resist on NB is pretty much dead.

here is a link (http://www.smogon.com/advance/charizard/strategy) to Charizard's suggested movesets. Notice that 3/4 of them contain EQ, and that the only without it is the pure special sweaping set.



And as a final note. I realize not everyone plays competively or even wants to play that way. However, those of us that do know the current system inside and out. We know how to take advantage of each strength and weakness. Don't think mono-ice is good? Won nearly 80% of my matches with that team. Best win-loss ratio I had. But anyways. I love mono-ice now. I always thought ice was a crap type. But it isn't actually that bad. Just takes a bit of effort to get it to work. However the trio of ice/rock/steel I like becuase all three types could use new average(or better) pokes in it.

[Skyblade]

I admit, I am finding all this balance talk fascinating. I have never played competitively, so my team is focused on decimating the NPCs, which lets me use the ones I like most without having to worry too much about how well they'd face against the insanely talented players out there.

Personally, though, I wouldn't mind if they didn't add any new Pokemon at all. The movesets need to be rebalanced, but we don't need a huge ton of more Pokemon. We need a new plot. More character interaction, a new storyline...

[ShunNakamura]

I admit, I am finding all this balance talk fascinating. I have never played competitively, so my team is focused on decimating the NPCs, which lets me use the ones I like most without having to worry too much about how well they'd face against the insanely talented players out there.


True enough. And I like playing the games purely for that reason. I had a rude awakening that using a team of my favorites competitively didn't work well. Niether did my in game sets(on attackers I would many times have two of thier stabbed attacks just incase I ran out of pp for one of them while in the wild. Makes sense for ingame... but not so much for competitive play).


Personally, though, I wouldn't mind if they didn't add any new Pokemon at all. The movesets need to be rebalanced, but we don't need a huge ton of more Pokemon. We need a new plot. More character interaction, a new storyline...

I agree much with that last sentance. The game is fairly boring as is. If it wasn't for the strategy part I would never play them. So a super storyline and all that would be wicked.

[Tavrobel]

Before I get into this something I forgot to mention. Since I was naming possible triangles off my head Ice was involved alot cause I know its strengths and weaknesses very well(I accepted to do a mono-ice team challenge on netbattle). Therefor, I am more aware of how it would fit in a triangle. Also I would like to see more *good* ice types(I say it that way cause many of them are more then usable even competatively.... but it takes some work).

I want more Ice types, too. In my opinion, it is the best element. Psychic makes number two.


Which I don't think is being done currently. The problem is most water types(even if not part ice) learn ice-beam. Which hurts nearly as much as a firetypes fire attack. Of course water holds the advantage thanks to stab, but most grass types moves are weaker then ice beam(even afterstab if memory serves).

Which is a result that occurs because of needing to add diversity. The current system works now, because the beginning Water types often aren't dual types, so they cannot gain the x1.25 advantage of using Ice Beam, like a Dewgong can.

However, in my opinion, it is working better than anything that could be constructed with this system.


Anyways many of them are used(even competitively) to answer your question.

I'll concede to this one. I'll admit that I'm a bit out of date; partially because of Dark Pokemon.


Question... could bug be put in a triangle? A quick lookie for me suggests that it wouldn't. Stinks cause if a bug was a starter some decent attacks for them would likely turn up or become slightly more obtainable.

Potentially. But as the problem I mentioned before, the triangle would not work that well. Although the current system works (but it is getting worse due to the need to diversify), it is gaining slowly in crap-ness.

You COULD have Bug/Grass/Poison, but I don't know which one would beat the other. I'm actually pretty sure Grass would get wrecked in this situation without Dual-typing. Plus, in the TCG, you have all three of them as usually being classified in GREEN. Yeah, like we need MORE Grass Pokemon. Plus, Poison would rule the both of them.


However, my charts for G/S/C show that Ice wasn't weak to rock. And in R/B/Y my charts say the same. However, Arti's Ice beam is by far powerful enough to one hit just about anything that is 2x weak to it(particually before the special split[348 special attack.......only 20 points lower then Alakazam, plus stab!]).

WTFAKU!?!?!?!?!?!


However it wouldn't be hard for duals to ruin the Grass/Fire/Water triangle. Some people fear it may already be done with the penguin if it evolves to Water/Ice. Water/Ice will likely beat the Grass type unless the grass type becomes grass/steel.

The original system is there. Not that it's working as well as it should. But Duals would destroy the Ice/Steel/Ground more than the original set.


Pretty much. A team without an EQ resist on NB is pretty much dead.

here is a link to Charizard's suggested movesets. Notice that 3/4 of them contain EQ, and that the only without it is the pure special sweaping set.

O WTF LOL ROFLBLASTAR TEH COPTAR! POOLESE! I forgot to wrap my reply in sarcasm tags. I usually use my Dewgong/Mewtwo to finish what my Charizard doesn't bother to finish. But my Charizard does know EQ, but I reserve it for fighting opposing Fire types. I'll have to teach my Charizard that Swords Dance instead of Wing Attack, now.


And as a final note. I realize not everyone plays competively or even wants to play that way. However, those of us that do know the current system inside and out. We know how to take advantage of each strength and weakness. Don't think mono-ice is good? Won nearly 80% of my matches with that team. Best win-loss ratio I had. But anyways. I love mono-ice now. I always thought ice was a crap type. But it isn't actually that bad. Just takes a bit of effort to get it to work. However the trio of ice/rock/steel I like becuase all three types could use new average(or better) pokes in it.

I still find it incredibly difficult to work with, despite the possibilities given thus far, but remember that most people don't evolve to level 100 (especially without the Rare Candy Code, those stupid nutfaces at Nintendo, you ruined my favorite glitch). So, perhaps this could (potentially) work at 100. What about 45 or 25? I do admit that it COULD work, but until Nintendo becomes competent enough to use it, I'll reserve my discussion side's ass when I see it happen.

Ise roxxas mai boxxas! TI R TEH UBARL33T EL3M3NT IN TEH P0KEWURLD! RIEK ZOMAIGAWD ROK AND GRWOUND TOT4LLY N33D BETTAR POKEMON MUVZ! WINNED!

[ShunNakamura]

You COULD have Bug/Grass/Poison, but I don't know which one would beat the other. I'm actually pretty sure Grass would get wrecked in this situation without Dual-typing. Plus, in the TCG, you have all three of them as usually being classified in GREEN. Yeah, like we need MORE Grass Pokemon. Plus, Poison would rule the both of them.

Actually I'll chart it real quick with the current system, cause now I am curious.



|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|-------------------------------------------BUG------------------------------------------|
|-------------------Offense-----------------||------------------Defense------------------|
|--Normal-|---1/2x---|----2x----|--Immune-||--Normal--|---1/2x---|----2x----|--Immune-|
|--Normal-|--Fire-----|--Grass---|----X-----||--Normal--|--Grass---|--Fire-----|----X-----|
|--Water--|--Fighting-|--Psychic-|----X-----||--Water--|--Fighting-|--Flying---|----X-----|
|--Electric-|--Poison--|--Dark----|----X-----||--Electric-|--Ground--|--Rock----|----X-----|
|--Ice-----|--Flying---|----X-----|----X----||--Ice-----|----X-----|----X-----|----X-----|
|--Ground-|--Ghost---|----X-----|----X-----||--Poison--|----X-----|----X-----|----X-----|
|--Bug----|--Steel---|----X-----|----X-----||--Psychic-|----X-----|----X-----|----X-----|
|--Rock---|----X-----|----X-----|----X-----||--Bug----|----X-----|----X-----|----X-----|
|--Dragon-|----X-----|----X-----|----X-----||--Dragon-|----X-----|----X-----|----X-----|
|----X----|----X-----|----X-----|----X-----||--Dark----|----X-----|----X-----|----X-----|
|----X----|----X-----|----X-----|----X-----||--Steel---|----X-----|----X-----|----X-----|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|



Grass is the only thing it is both supereffective against offensively and defensively. Though the typing can still trash dark and psychic fairly well thanks to offensive stab and defensive neutrality.

So I guess Bug/Grass/Rock could work. Rock beats bug, grass beats rock, and bug beats grass. And I think that may be the only viable one for them.... ouch.

Chart is for current generation. In R/B/Y bug and poison were strong vs. each other. But I don't think that changes the possible triangles by much.


Also even if you don't play it, downloading NB is nice for referance. It has charts of supereffectiveness/etc for all the generations currently available.


out of curiousity have you heard of some of the new moves?

Such as trouble seed. It " Changes Foe's Ability to Insomnia temporarily".

You have the elemental fangs. Which are all based off physical attack.
Fire Fang- "May Cause Burn & Flinch"
Ice Fang- "May Cause Freezing & Flinch"
Thunder Fang- "May Cause Paralysis & Flinch"

All with 65 base power and 95% accuracy.

Which brings up the new split they are doing. where the attack decides whether or not it is phsyical or special rather then the type.

[Tavrobel]

Chart is for current generation. In R/B/Y bug and poison were strong vs. each other. But I don't think that changes the possible triangles by much.

It wouldn't change too much. Poison is pretty much a staple of most attacks early on, but fails as you progress. In the first generation, all Bug had was Leech Life. Quite the improvement, thus far.


out of curiousity have you heard of some of the new moves?

Such as trouble seed. It " Changes Foe's Ability to Insomnia temporarily".

You have the elemental fangs. Which are all based off physical attack.
Fire Fang- "May Cause Burn & Flinch"
Ice Fang- "May Cause Freezing & Flinch"
Thunder Fang- "May Cause Paralysis & Flinch"

All with 65 base power and 95% accuracy.

Which brings up the new split they are doing. where the attack decides whether or not it is phsyical or special rather then the type.

Ohh, good God. I wonder how THOSE will be stopped.

Of course, everything looks good on paper. It's just about how you apply it.

[Shoden]

Depending on the EV tweaks Steelix can withstand up to 5 earthquakes, it can be a fricking pain in the arse to beat. A single Rock Slide can destroy charizard in one hit, 4x weakness. Steeelix has over 510 maximum def on netbattle.

[ShunNakamura]

True Shoden, but shuckle is the only Pokemon that has more Defense to Steelix. So Steelix had better be able to take multiple supereffective hits.

Cloyster who has less hp and def can take multiple supereffective physical hits as well. (I love killing rock types with cloyster, particually aerodactly :p).

[Shoden]

I can knock out Aerodactyl with a thunderbolt or rock slide. wtf is shuckle anyway, type wise.

[Tavrobel]

Bug/Rock, it's got somewhat sub-decent HP, but its Defense/Special Defense is the highest of ALL of the Pokemon.

It's got no major attack capability, but it rocks a mean Toxic-er.

[ShunNakamura]

Shuckle Rocks :P.

Sandstorm, Attract, toxic and rest is a fun set :P. Steel trashes it though.