America Under Attack thread (read first, please)

[Garland]

I don't see why the entire middle east is getting the blame for this. On the NY Times, there was an article describing the world leaders thoughts on this. Of course all of Europe pledged its support, as did Russia. I think Russia was one of the countries that offered more than sympathy, sort of in the same camp with England. Israel declared a day of mourning. Palestine pledged support, and asked if we wanted help seaking out the terrorists. Iran who has rarely seen eye to eye with the US also offered condolences. Afghanistan condemned the attack, and I believe them. Why, because they're in the midst of a civil war themselves. Things are rough there, and the Taliban, however oppressive they might be, aren't foolish enough to start a second war. Cuba, who we've crippled with an embargo for 50 years, not only offered support and medical assistance, but played on their national tv, programming about the tragedy and how horrible it was. Only Iraq supported the attack, but really, with Saddam in control, did you expect sympathy? I just think it's touching how the whole world, friend or former enemy are coming to our aid. Some may say the're only covering their butts, but I think most if not all of them are pretty sincere.

[Rainecloud]

Posted by Black Mage

LAUGHING??? How can anyone laugh about something like that? That is almost as bad as celebrating! I seriously wanted to kill the boy. He doesn't care about thousands of lives being lost? I'm sure he wouldn't mind one more added to that tally...

People often laugh at inappropriate moments Mage, when they are scared, nervous or upset. I'm sure he didn't mean it...

[Cz]

Didn't seem like it at the time. Although I never liked him, I suppose I was just waiting for an excuse to yell at him.

[Wolfboy]

I don't see why the entire middle east is getting the blame for this.

Personally, I think that it was more than likely that it was done by an internal group, someone FROM the US. I mean, think about it. They'd know that the Middle East would get the blame. As to why, it's human nature to consider threats to be something external.

I just want to go on record right now by saying...
This is NOT the end of the world. This has NOT been prophecised by Nostradamus/the bible/Kreskin/anything else. And there is NOT going to be a war, for goodness sake! I mean, be realistic here for a minute. There's a difference between a military strike and a terrorist attack, mostly that wars are started because of military, not terrorism. If they do respond with voilence, it will not streach out into a war.

[Rainecloud]

Posted by Wolfboy

I just want to go on record right now by saying...This is NOT the end of the world. This has NOT been prophecised by Nostradamus/the bible/Kreskin/anything else. And there is NOT going to be a war, for goodness sake! I mean, be realistic here for a minute. There's a difference between a military strike and a terrorist attack, mostly that wars are started because of military, not terrorism. If they do respond with voilence, it will not streach out into a war.

I second that and agree with you totally.

[Mikztsu]

Originally posted by Wolfboy




I just want to go on record right now by saying...
This is NOT the end of the world. This has NOT been prophecised by Nostradamus/the bible/Kreskin/anything else. And there is NOT going to be a war, for goodness sake! I mean, be realistic here for a minute. There's a difference between a military strike and a terrorist attack, mostly that wars are started because of military, not terrorism. If they do respond with voilence, it will not streach out into a war.

I second that too. This has been my opinion for all the time, although there might be some kind of war between some nation and USA. That's a possibility.

What happened was shocking, and it felt so unrealistic, so many have started to think totally unrealistcally.

End of the World and WW3 talks just piss me off, and they cause panic some sort of.

[Frihet]

The sad thing is, I believe that this is the kind of thing that the US would do. Scorched Earth. And two wrongs certainly do not make a right.
~ Wolfboy

I just hope that the US won't jump the gun, as they are known to do, and that they won't blame the middle-east without any proof. And just think about Oklahoma.

[BlackCapedManX]

!READ THIS!

Bin Ladin is a native of Saudi Arabia. He had a culture he grew up to accept as his own. He had a religion that he grew up to accept as his own. America came to Saudi Arabia and traded for oil. In return they forced thier culture, thier ideas and beliefs upon Bin Ladin and the rest of Saudi Arabia. America had business advertising and ideas that Saudi Arabian grew to accept. Bin Ladin is a wealthy person, he got and education and he knew this. He knew that Saudi Arabia was a tyranical government, and he knew that the Americans didn't care as long they got their oil. He also knew that America was forcing, brutally, its culture and religion and beleifs upon other countries. America is a festering disease, we have businesses that can't be content to saty in their bounds. When McDonalds runs out of people here in America to feed, it pushes outward to force it's way upon other people. Along with that are the American embassies and military bases all around the globe. This is very difficult for close-minded people to understand, because we have had an open culture that can accept just about everything. But if you're living and brought up on one set of rules ans suddenly and violently you have another thrust down upon you, and there's nothing else you can do, you push back. And since Bin Ladin can't force his culture upon ours, he pushes back with pain. If this was because of him, don't think of it as an act of anger or aggresive attack against America, think of it as a scared single person who is doing everything he knows how to keep the swelling black cloud that is America from consuming him. I know this doesn't justify what happened, but I really wish people would keep and open-mind about such things. It pains me to hear a these ignorant screams of anguish from people who don't have the slightest idea why. I just hope people read this.

[Peegee]

Hope this isn't too "evil minded", but.....

The WTC apparently is supported mostly by its walls. All the walls were load bearing, and to destroy one would cause much problems.

However the airplanes couldn't have flown too close to the ground because of surrounding buildings, so they hit the WTC at about 80 (first) and 60th (2nd) floor. I didn't see the footage for the first crash, but the 2nd one smashed right through the middle, so all the floors above the 60th started to fall onto the 59th......domino effect.

I don't suggest they rebuild the buildings. Technology hasn't advanced enough to make structural modifications to prevent such a thing from happening again.

[Linus]

Hey, whoever thinks it was a few psycho Americans, read this:

Today, an abandoned car in New York City was found with the Qu'ran(Think Arabic Bible...), several explosives, and long plastic weapons(Think resin knives...). At a Boston airport, a suitcase was found with another Qu'ran, a metal butcher-style knife, a manual on FLYING AIRPLANES, and A FUEL CALCULATOR...

Yep, saw it all on CNN today around 8 AM EST.

[Cz]

If you ask me, any subsequent attacks will be of a totally different nature. No terrorist organization intelligent enough to conduct a plan like that is dumb enough to try the same thing twice. Expect the unexpected, because they'll try to find another way, believe me. The explosives etc. Linus mentioned were presumably back up, in case anything went wrong. But I heard a story of a man that jumped off the WTC, and landed safely on a shop awning cover. I don't know whether he survived the subsequent events. But I just think it is amazing that that happened.

[Funkmonkey Deluxe]

I heard about those things in the car, too. One good thing is that they're already busting people for being associated and responsible for the attack. One of the terrorists that flew the second plane came to America legally a while back, he worked here, he lived here, he went to PILOT SCHOOL here, he claimed to be German even though his name was very Islamic sounding. The other terrorists were trained here too. They graduated from Pilot school in Florida, and each one paid off their certification and licensing and schooling for pilot school. This cost 25,000 dollars for each one of them, yet they paid it very easily. This of course would require a lot of money (Osama Bin-laden). One of the associates of the attack was caught during a raid of a Chicago hotel. When they looked up his profile, he was found to be one of the top followers of Bib-laden. Despite Bin-laden's denials to this, they are now 95% sure it's him who's responsible.

Also, if there is a war, you don't have to worry about being drafted. There's already an enormous amount of severely ticked-off Americans joining. Plus, we have massive support from major countries who have also suffered financially from the attack. So, I'm pretty sure everything's gonna be hunkey-dorey. (For those of you who don't know, hunkey-dorey is a good thing).

[Dr Unne]

<i>But if you're living and brought up on one set of rules ans suddenly and violently you have another thrust down upon you, and there's nothing else you can do, you push back. And since Bin Ladin can't force his culture upon ours, he pushes back with pain. If this was because of him, don't think of it as an act of anger or aggresive attack against America, think of it as a scared single person who is doing everything he knows how to keep the swelling black cloud that is America from consuming him. I know this doesn't justify what happened, but I really wish people would keep and open-mind about such things. It pains me to hear a these ignorant screams of anguish from people who don't have the slightest idea why. I just hope people read this.</i> --BlackCapedManX

When it comes to killing innocent people, there is no "open mind". Murder is wrong. Period.

Of course this is all assuming he actually did it, which we don't know yet. But let's assume he did. You say that bin-Ladin attacked us because "America was hurting his culture". Tough crap. At least he's STILL ALIVE, and able to complain about his culture. 10,000+ people aren't. Nothing America has supposedly done to his supposedly wonderful culture justifies killing anyone. It doesn't justify it in the least.

I don't see how you can call the screams of anguish "ignorant". Let someone come to your house and blow up your family, and see if you don't scream too. And remember to keep an "open mind" if someone comes to your town and levels a couple buildings. After all, the killer might be "scared".

I'd like someone to explain exactly what horrible things America is doing to other countries to make them hate us so much. Could someone explain?

[SubmoDuck]

I work at a video store, and last night at work there were two seperate instances of really bad jokes.
One person asked if we had Air Force One, then laughed, and another person asked if we had Under Seige. I nearly jumped over the counter and decked the shit out of them...instead...I went outside and had a cigarette.

My thoughts on this whole thing:
I'm deeply upset by it, and extremely angry. I feel I am showing extreme self control at the moment. This wasn't just an attack against our country, this was an attack on our rights as human beings, and if these sick fucks act like inhuman monsters, then they shall be treated as such and eradicated by whatever mean neccesary.

-Submo Duck

[SubmoDuck]

P.S. What did America supposedly do to have terrorists attack it????

[Funkmonkey Deluxe]

One theory I heard on the reasons for this attack was that it wasn't against America but against our and many contries way of life, like stocks and gasoline. Since America is a very big financial partner with many countries, they attacked us, and lowered stock prices everywhere. i.e. overnight, Japan's stocks went down 17%. Also, because of this, gasoline prices have risen all over the country. i.e. $5.00 a gallon in michigan.

Personally, I don't know why they did it, much less how the whole stock market thing works.

[BlackCapedManX]

Think of the targets, the world trade center and the pentagon. A symbol of global unification and military oppresion. I'd tend to think these people obviously want us to stop forcing ourselves upon other contries. I know you don't like metaphors but this one might be good for you:
I'd hate it if someone came to my niegborhood and killed my family. But I'd hate it much more if a man walked into my house and covered the walls with posters of beleifs and culturistic ideas that literally pry my eyelids open and force me to look at them. And then this man builds and outpost outside my house and watches my every move. Then every day this man comes and fills my house with boxes. Boxes full of stuff, stuff i don't want or need, but stuff he's going to give me anyway. This stuff cluteres my house. And my family accepts this because they can't think of anything else to do. So they accept the stuff and the religion and the ideas. But i won't have it. Instead, I go, and I shoot this man in the head. He stops bringing things we don't need and stops clutering our house and lets us going back to the way we were.
I'd be scared if I were part of a small country and was forced into religion and ideas and cultures I didn't want. America promotes "freedom" but forcing their "freedom" upon other cultures ruins their status quo. That can be worse than being free, that is oppresion, and being oppresed is worse than watching loved ones die in my oppinion. Maybe it's just me, i'm betting you'll say it probably is, but I don't want someone coming into my house and changing my life, do you?

[ew2x4]

I'm from America, so I don't know what other countries are like.

Can someone from other countries say how you feel about it? Like have you come to the realization of it yet? If there was a big enough threat and we had to go to war, do people in other countries feel that they would go to war over something like this?

I know that if a country was to blame for this, I would go to war. I would give my life if it meant a safer world for my family and children of others.

But on the subject of what the USA have done, the USA has alot of bad things. But nowhere, absolutley nowhere the extremes, the effects or intentions this had.

One problem I have is that with all of the Middle East people celebrating, there is many Middle East people sad over this. People want the USA "satan" to go down. Us and Isreal and others.

I just wish I knew what would happen 5 moths from now.

[Dr. Disco]

Originally posted by BlackCapedManX
Think of the targets, the world trade center and the pentagon. A symbol of global unification and military oppresion. I'd tend to think these people obviously want us to stop forcing ourselves upon other contries. I know you don't like metaphors but this one might be good for you:
I'd hate it if someone came to my niegborhood and killed my family. But I'd hate it much more if a man walked into my house and covered the walls with posters of beleifs and culturistic ideas that literally pry my eyelids open and force me to look at them. And then this man builds and outpost outside my house and watches my every move. Then every day this man comes and fills my house with boxes. Boxes full of stuff, stuff i don't want or need, but stuff he's going to give me anyway. This stuff cluteres my house. And my family accepts this because they can't think of anything else to do. So they accept the stuff and the religion and the ideas. But i won't have it. Instead, I go, and I shoot this man in the head. He stops bringing things we don't need and stops clutering our house and lets us going back to the way we were.
I'd be scared if I were part of a small country and was forced into religion and ideas and cultures I didn't want. America promotes "freedom" but forcing their "freedom" upon other cultures ruins their status quo. That can be worse than being free, that is oppresion, and being oppresed is worse than watching loved ones die in my oppinion. Maybe it's just me, i'm betting you'll say it probably is, but I don't want someone coming into my house and changing my life, do you?

Don't assume I'm right about this, but I bet Bin-laden is smarter than you. "Shooting him in the head", as you say, will bring his powerful, powerful friends there to mess you up.
Bin-laden, if he did it, KNEW this would get him screwed. And, I didn't "plaster his walls with my posters", the government did. He KNEW those were innocent civilians. So, basically, if you don't know what you're talking about, stop talking.

[BlackCapedManX]

Can't you people see that their are at least two sides to this, and that none of them are right? We gave isreal to the jews from the palistinians, we gave weapons to the isrealians. The isrealians are warring with palistine. Palistinians are throwing rocks and using kamakazie bombers to attack the isrealians. Isrealians are hitting back with tanks. So obviously the palistians are joyous about the "attack on america." You people are blindly defending the cause of the americans to strike back at who ever did this, even if it is only in having them aprehended with as little violence as possible.

Our friend Doctor Unne claims that all killing is wrong. Take that outlook and America would still be under british rule. We'd not have won a single war and someone who realized that strength is power would be in charge. Who ever did this did so TO MAKE A POINT and we're CLEARLY not seeing it. Maybe destroying the WTC was not the best way of doing it, but would the U.S.A. have listened if a point had been made any other way? I doubt that. U.S.A. rules with power and only listens when someone else shows power back. We obviously don't know what the point trying to made is yet, but I'm thinking we will soon, and we should LISTEN to it, instead of striking back this time. We should consider it instead of thinking that our way is right and theirs is wrong.

And If you don't think you "plastered thier walls," if you think you can blame it on the government, remember, who does the government represent? YOU! DUH!! How can you sit back and say "oh, i'm not responisble, the government is." Or "what can i do," I don't know, you're only a CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY! So if you're not going to do something about it, someone who doesn't have influence the way we do will. And they are going to do it in a way that works for them. And if you say, "i didn't know about it" thses people are intending to reduce your ignorance on the situation. I can accept the anger that people who have lost loved ones feel right now, but I am SEETHING WITH ANGER at everyone else who ABSOLUTELY REFUSES to look at this from another view than their own! Pleeeeease excuse my intrudence on your limited vision on the situation but you probably know less than I do about what these people feel. I've felt it myself, I've felt oppresion, i've felt trapped and i've felt the need to strike back against those who wish to view me only through their eyes. So I feel I can sympathize with anyone else who has felt oppresed, in any way, shape, or form.

[Garland]

It's amazing how some can try and justify this attack. America, a festering disease? Pushing our culture violently? McDonalds? The reason our culture sticks is that people like it. When a McDonalds moves in, it's successful because people like the food, and convenience. No force will make you eat a Big Mac if you don't want to. They can't compete with what we offer? That's not our fault. Our companies spread around the world offering them something new. If they don't want to see our culture, make something better. Our movies are too pervasive, well they're successful because they're good. Don't like it, do better. We're not pervasive or pushy, we're successful. If people don't like something they won't use it. We plaster their walls with stuff they don't want? Most of them like it, especially the youth.
So one discontent rich guy (Bin Laden) wants to keep things the way they were, that makes it ok. If Bin Laden had came to America and promoted Islamic culture, we'd have welcomed it. Same with any culture. They all have something good to offer. Last I knew, being close minded was a BAD thing, not a justification to commit atrocities. There's nothing to understand about the motives. There's no need to discuss moral issues with a terrorist. If you dedicate your life to bombing innocent people (what a goal...), you've given up any claim to a "higher moral standing" and being considered human. Americans, and the rest of the civilized world are above sympathizing with the likes of whoever did this (terrorists that is). No, there's no justifying this.

[Asorie]

I'm <i>not</i> responsible. I have no say in my <i>free</i> government. Those men do not represent me. So be careful where you point the finger, my friend.

I can understand what you are saying, though I disagree. I will allow, however, that America is <i>far</i> too involved in foreign conflicts. I have believed that for a long time.

I just got to listen to mom go on a tangent about how Afghanistani life is worth less than American life, and how if she could drop a bomb on the crowds of children in the streets of Palestine, she would. This is a popular opinion right now. Yet, she gets worked up about the life lost at the WTC? It's hypocrisy like this that makes me ill. I can't stand it.

<b>Incidentally, in light of complaints about this thread's being too long, I'm closing it and starting a new one. Thank you.</b>

[Britt]

<I>DUH!! How can you sit back and say "oh, i'm not responisble, the government is." Or "what can i do," I don't know, you're only a CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY! So if you're not going to do something about it, someone who doesn't have influence the way we do will. And they are going to do it in a way that works for them. And if you say, "i didn't know about it" thses people are intending to reduce your ignorance on the situation. I can accept the anger that people who have lost loved ones feel right now, but I am SEETHING WITH ANGER at everyone else who ABSOLUTELY REFUSES to look at this from another view than their own! Pleeeeease excuse my intrudence on your limited vision on the situation but you probably know less than I do about what these people feel. I've felt it myself, I've felt oppresion, i've felt trapped and i've felt the need to strike back against those who wish to view me only through their eyes.</i>

Please, about all else, don't be insulting. To insult another's intelligence or comprehension is unecessary. I see your point, as well, but do you see ours? At any rate, please calm down. We really, really don't need any huge arguments, right now.

This thread is now closed- a new one has been created.