An interesting inconsistency.

[Future Esthar]

I am back!
Welcome!
People say that Edea knows about Ulti´s plans because she became aware of her thoughts while possessed.

But that cannot be the case because we know that neither Laguna neither Kyros neither Ward were able to understand what the faeries were saying while sane,let alone on a crazed state.

[Ryushikaze]

Laguna can hear what Squall is thinking.

Of course, Laguna was not under Squall's control. Ulti may have been a much more open book given the greater amount of will she would be investing in Edea.

[G SpOtZ]

I live for these threads.

So FE, what if you're right, and Edea doesn't know what Ulti's plans are? What does it mean?

*anxiously waits*

[LunarWeaver]

:heart:

[nik0tine]

Three cheers for FE's return!

[Zeromus_X]

:heart:

[Bart's Friend Milhouse]

People say that Edea knows about Ulti´s plans because she became aware of her thoughts while possessed.

But that cannot be the case because we know that neither Laguna neither Kyros neither Ward were able to understand what the faeries were saying while sane,let alone on a crazed state.

I'm lost already :confused: :confused:

[Sir Bahamut]

With Viator seemingly gone, I was hoping you'd return ;)

[Jimmy Dark Aeons Slayer]

Viator= FE:eek:

[Zeromus_X]

What will your next alias be?

[Hambone]

Welcome back FE. I missed your crazy theories.

[Christmas]

I am back!
Welcome!
People say that Edea knows about Ulti´s plans because she became aware of her thoughts while possessed.

But that cannot be the case because we know that neither Laguna neither Kyros neither Ward were able to understand what the faeries were saying while sane,let alone on a crazed state.

It is a good thing I dun understand what you are saying either. Cheers.

[Zeromus_X]

On that note...

*Kiros

[Future Esthar]

I am saying that Laguna and company didn´t understood what the faeries speak.

So Edea can´t remember Ulti´s thoughts and therefore cannot know her plans.

[Zeromus_X]

Ultimecia's possession of Sorceresses is different from Ellone's ability to 'send' people into the past.

And you're thinking about it too much anyway. It wasn't meant to be dug into so deeply.

[Ryushikaze]

Except at one point Laguna DOES directly respond to a thought Squall has, and in a way that he could only respond in if he understood the thought.

So your objection falls through even IF Posession and piggybacking are functionally identical, even though they are not.

[G SpOtZ]

That fact is wrong
Oh sorry, wrong person.

Anyway, FE, I'm interested in where you're going with this. Edea acts as if she knows Ulti's plans, so does this mean that Edea has been acting and scheming something this whole time?

Perhaps she's got a deal going on with the Shumis who are possessing people, and Edea is planning on the reign of propagators far into the future.

[boys from the dwarf]

id imagine that edeas knows a lot about what ultimecia might do because of experience in these sorts of matters and she doesn't know all that much about ultimecias plan until esthar where a lot more info is uncovered by odine and people like that so edea doesnt know that much, she just seems experienced in this kind of matter.

[Future Esthar]

Except at one point Laguna DOES directly respond to a thought Squall has, and in a way that he could only respond in if he understood the thought.


Where did that happen?

Possession relates to Ellone´s ability.For instance,at Winhill you can make Laguna take a path different than its usual.And he gets surprised.

Laguna can have control over himself because he has not lost his memory.

[Rantz]

Possession relates to Ellone´s ability.

They do have some similarities, but they're not the same.

[Future Esthar]

Laguna says-"I usually didn´t take this path" or something along these lines.
Would Laguna have lost his memory before this event he wouldn´t remember the path he used to take and would not realize he was doing something abnormal.This way he wouldn´t prevent the forces acting on him.
In fact,a person without memory didn´t have an identity and thus he thinks he IS the person possessing him.He don´t try to act like himself because he didn´t know this "himself".
That is what possession is about on FF8.

[Captain Maxx Power]

Future Esthar is Life. :love:

[Future Esthar]

Jesus is Life,not me.

[Ryushikaze]

Laguna says-"I usually didn´t take this path" or something along these lines.
Would Laguna have lost his memory before this event he wouldn´t remember the path he used to take and would not realize he was doing something abnormal.This way he wouldn´t prevent the forces acting on him.
In fact,a person without memory didn´t have an identity and thus he thinks he IS the person possessing him.He don´t try to act like himself because he didn´t know this "himself".
That is what possession is about on FF8.

What's that Lassie? FE's making ANOTHER wild claim without any supporting evidence? Oi.

And to respond to when- Several times Laguna directly responds to Squall. First when he says "Huh? Excuse me?", and it confuses Laguna. Another time, Squall says "where am I", and Laguna knows it's 'the faeries' immediately. That's with only a minimal connection and no real time together. Imagine the possibility with a total connection over months, if not years.

[Xaven]

*hugs FE*

You have an interesting point! So, what do you think this could mean?

[G SpOtZ]

*hugs FE*

You have an interesting point! So, what do you think this could mean?
That's what I've been asking him, but he wouldn't answer.

\`,

[Kain_Highwind]

Good God. Future Esthar. The legendary Future Esthar. Let me just start by saying I'm a huge fan and it's an honor to finally get the chance to respond to your outrageous (but wonderful) theories.


But that cannot be the case because we know that neither Laguna neither Kyros neither Ward were able to understand what the faeries were saying while sane,let alone on a crazed state.

I know she was possessed, but when was Edea crazy? Just curious. Not challenging you or anything. Not yet, anyway.

[Moon Rabbits]

:heart:

Yep.



I am back!
Welcome!
People say that Edea knows about Ulti´s plans because she became aware of her thoughts while possessed.

But that cannot be the case because we know that neither Laguna neither Kyros neither Ward were able to understand what the faeries were saying while sane,let alone on a crazed state.

It is a good thing I dun understand what you are saying either. Cheers.

Yep.

What crazed state? :S What faeries :(?

Edea knows Ultimecia's plans because she was possessed; Ultimecia's thoughts were controlling Edea's body (as well as Edea's thoughts, I assume).

I have no idea what Faeries you're talking about, or when Kiros and Laguna and Ward are ever in a crazed state, but if what you're saying is that Laguna and co. cannot sense Squall's presence therefore Edea could not do the same for Ultimecia you are wrong. Squall was watching through Laguna's eyes, while Ultimecia was CONTROLLING Edea's body. There is a difference between Edea's possession and what Squall and Co. deal with when they're sent to the past. Hrm. I'm clear as mud, eh?

[Goldenboko]

I don't see anything strange like that in the game...
The only strange thing I see is this thread!

[Go powerful women]

Here we go friends. This is what the game tells us depending on where you are in it. Spoiler warining maybe. Anywho Ultimecia used a machine created by Odine that replicates Ellone's power to send people into the past. A machine that imitates Ellone's power coupled with the fact that Ultimecia is a sorceress could give her the power to possess and not just watch. Btw Faeries is what Laguna and the others called it when they felt Squall and the others presences. (Hoped that helped.) Also, Squall and the others never tried to take over or control Laguna and the others. They simply observed. As for Edea knowing about Ultimecia's plan it is at the ending of the game that you find that out. Spoiler During time compression Ultimecia traveled to the past and as she was dying she gave her powers to Edea. Squall went along and told Edea about the Garden and SeeD. Hope that helped ya all.

[boys from the dwarf]

when ultimecia possessed edea, ultimecia was in full control which would explian why they shared thoughts. squall and c.o's consciousness being projected into laguna, kiros and wards past bodies only meant they were aware of something weird and it also somehow made them stronger ( i think faeries is supposed to mean the strange feeling the 3 get that helps them through battles and thats something to do with squall and his teammates strength.) seems as ultimecia has full control where squall is just watching and sharing thoughts slightly id think ultimecia's control would have bigger effects.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

Here we go friends. This is what the game tells us depending on where you are in it. Spoiler warining maybe. Anywho Ultimecia used a machine created by Odine that replicates Ellone's power to send people into the past. A machine that imitates Ellone's power coupled with the fact that Ultimecia is a sorceress could give her the power to possess and not just watch. Btw Faeries is what Laguna and the others called it when they felt Squall and the others presences. (Hoped that helped.) Also, Squall and the others never tried to take over or control Laguna and the others. They simply observed. As for Edea knowing about Ultimecia's plan it is at the ending of the game that you find that out. Spoiler During time compression Ultimecia traveled to the past and as she was dying she gave her powers to Edea. Squall went along and told Edea about the Garden and SeeD. Hope that helped ya all.

It could also be that either when Edea succeeded Ultimecia that she became aware of Ultimeica's life or failed dying mission. OR, it could be that when possessed, one can hear her thoughts, like when Rinoa 'was young Adel'...

[abrojtm]

I can't believe people still respond to these threads.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

I can't believe people still respond to these threads.

And yet, here you are responding as well... :p

[Rocket Edge]

I can't believe people still respond to these threads.

And yet, here you are responding as well... :p
He's right.

Let's ponder over another one of FE's theories...

[boys from the dwarf]

fortunately this theory makes a lot more sense than usual and is less based on rumour and suspicion.

[Future Esthar]

Squall in fact Possessed Laguna.
How many times do I have to say that Laguna gets surprised if you change your returning path on Winhill?

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

I am back!
Welcome!
People say that Edea knows about Ulti´s plans because she became aware of her thoughts while possessed.

But that cannot be the case because we know that neither Laguna neither Kyros neither Ward were able to understand what the faeries were saying while sane,let alone on a crazed state.


It may have been a ruse so she could get the Fated Children to fulfill their destiny, but that wouldn't explain how she knew the details of Ultimecia's plans... Hmm... Why do I feel I've been in this thread before...:confused:

[Ryushikaze]

Squall in fact Possessed Laguna.
How many times do I have to say that Laguna gets surprised if you change your returning path on Winhill?

Laguna brain farting is not sufficient evidence of possesion. You are overstating his 'surprise' to support your postulate du jour, as you have done previously.

If Squall could control Laguna, Laguna would acting like Laguna, as Squall was utterly mortified by having to 'be the idiot' in his dreams. Laguna keeps acting himself.

Of course, this won't stop you and your quest for evidence-less falsifiability.

[Future Esthar]

I already explained it:

Laguna says-"I usually didn´t take this path" or something along these lines.
Would Laguna have lost his memory before this event he wouldn´t remember the path he used to take and would not realize he was doing something abnormal.This way he wouldn´t prevent the forces acting on him.
In fact,a person without memory didn´t have an identity and thus he thinks he IS the person possessing him.He don´t try to act like himself because he didn´t know this "himself".
That is what possession is about on FF8.


Full possession like the one of Edea only occur on the assymptotic limit in which ones memory is fully erased.

The very fact that Squall don´t like Laguna means nothing.
It would not prevent Squall to choose a different path.
Maybe he thinks that path is better.

[Skyblade]

Future Esthar, welcome back! Your insanity has been missed. :D

I'm just going to address the first post, since all the responses got a little confusing.

This can be explained simply and easily. You're wrong. Ok, I'll get a little more comlicated than that. Your conclusion seemed reasonable, given the evidence that you presented. However, that evidence was inaccurate, so the conclusion was invalid. Laguna and the gang did know about Squall and company. They may not have understood what the "fairies" were, but they were clearly aware of their thoughts.

Laguna's line "Looks like the fairies are here" was a response to Squall's thoughts, not his actions. Thus, Edea likely knew about Ulti's thoughts, so, the question presented at the beginning does not arise.

[Future Esthar]

Skyblade,they don´t understand WHAT THEY ARE SAYING.They are just aware of the existance of the thoughts.

[Skyblade]

Skyblade,they don´t understand WHAT THEY ARE SAYING.They are just aware of the existance of the thoughts.

I hate to say this, again, but: Prove it.

[Future Esthar]

I already did that.

[Skyblade]

No, you didn't. An explanation of the way things could possibly have worked is not, and has never been, proof.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

No, you didn't. An explanation of the way things could possibly have worked is not, and has never been, proof.

E=MC2 ring a bell? Anyway, c'mon people... That's like trying to prove Time Compression. How does that work? All anyone can start off with is "Well, I suppose..."

I say, give it a fair chance.

[Ryushikaze]

E=MC^2 isn't proof, or more properly said, is not evidence.

And we've been GIVING him a fair chance. He's been wasting that chance for awhile.

And FE, Laguna taking a different path is NOT evidence of possesion of any sort, much less the kind you claim, which, by the way, you HAVE YET TO PROVIDE ANY EVIDENCE FOR.

[Future Esthar]

much less the kind you claim, which, by the way, you HAVE YET TO PROVIDE ANY EVIDENCE FOR.


It makes sense.Note that this is not a game event but the explanation of some mechanics so logic is enough.

Proof that Laguna understand there is someone but don´t understand what it says:

QUOTE-I know there is something here but I don´t know what it says.

[Ryushikaze]

It makes sense.Note that this is not a game event but the explanation of some mechanics so logic is enough.

Except that logic is NOT enough to say "this mechanism applies here", either in the real world or under suspension of disbelief.


Proof that Laguna understand there is someone but don´t understand what it says:

QUOTE-I know there is something here but I don´t know what it says.

Which is completely irrelevant to "Huh, I brainfarted" somehow equalling mind control.

[MJN SEIFER]

Where did that happen?


I can't remember the descusion but it's after the 3rd dream where Laguna and co try a bit of acting. (The dream is a birth of a theory of mine actually)