Heaven and Hell - Promised Land and...?

[Aralith]

So, I think all of us can agree on the fact that the Promised Land was, at least for the Cetra, an end to their journey. A place where they could finally stop travelling and have all the things that they enjoyed in their lifetime. Well, this would pretty much make it akin to what we know as heaven. So, my question is, would there be a hell like place in FFVII? If so, how would one get there? Perhaps there is already evidence stating such a thing. If anyone has something of the sort, please bring it forwards.

Now... discuss.

[Flying Mullet]

Midgar was pretty hellish for most of its inhabitants.

[sephirothishere]

life is hell......
like you said,the ancients are in an awful place of death and despair until they die and are in the land of supreme happiness.....their journey was through life,their destination....death....
sad.......

[Xurts]

When people die in FF7, their consciousnesses return to the Lifestream, and their Spirit Energy is recycled to create new life.

[Toodleena]

Maybe when all the mako is taken from the world it becomes Hell...

[cap]

The lifestream is the promised land/heaven. And its also their equivalant of hell. Depends on how you've lived your life. When Tifa fell into it in Mideel she was surrounded by the memories of all the people she'd killed as a member of AVALANCHE. Something which she deeply regreted I guess. For the Cetra who were peaceful and in tune with the planet it is a place of rest and happiness.
Well at least that's what I took from the game anyway.

[sephirothishere]

The lifestream is the promised land/heaven. And its also their equivalant of hell. Depends on how you've lived your life. When Tifa fell into it in Mideel she was surrounded by the memories of all the people she'd killed as a member of AVALANCHE. Something which she deeply regreted I guess. For the Cetra who were peaceful and in tune with the planet it is a place of rest and happiness.
Well at least that's what I took from the game anyway.



well said.....

[Dragon Mage]

A lifeless barren rock. That would be Cetra hell. (No planet to talk to...) And if the lifestream was the heaven, then why didn't the Cetra just stay on the first inhabitable planet? Because every 'living' or life-supporting planet would have a lifestream right? But we know that the Cetra kept moving from planet to planet, which means that those planets have a lifestream in order to support/give life. So why didn't they just settle the first inhabitable planet they came across instead of going to many such planets? I don't believe that the lifestream is the heaven/hell. There's got to be some other explanation.

[Aralith]

The Lifestream isn't. The Lifestream is where someone goes when they die. They return to the Planet. The Promised Land is something else. In the game, the Cetra are described to travel from planet to planet until they find the Promised Land. Basically, it is very similar to Buddhism. They travel until they become enlightened and reach Nirvana. So, at that point, is there any such thing as an anti-Promised Land? Perhaps what happened to President Shinra in "Maiden Who Travels the Planet" (http://www.ff7ac.net/pages/maiden.html) is what hell is.

[Xurts]

The Cetra's Promised Land was the Lifestream. The Promised Land is not any one particular place. It varies for each person.

The Cetra were not capable of space travel. They stayed on Gaia and never left it. I am absolutely positive that there is no in-game dialogue stating, or even hinting, to the concept that the Cetra were capable of colonizing other planets.

There are no heaven or hell realms in FF7. There is only the Lifestream. It's made even clearer in The Maiden Who Travels the Planet, since both "bad" and "good" consciousnesses are present there.

[Dragon Mage]

I thought Sephiroth said that the Cetra kept traveling from planet to planet, never settling on one. Then some wanted to stop traveling and settle down. This happend in the flashback at Kalm, in the basement of the mansion. I don't know, I'm confused now.

[Xurts]

I thought Sephiroth said that the Cetra kept traveling from planet to planet, never settling on one. Then some wanted to stop traveling and settle down. This happend in the flashback at Kalm, in the basement of the mansion. I don't know, I'm confused now.
Sephiroth discovered that the Cetra were a nomadic people, so they never stayed at one certain place for too long. You're thinking that they traveled from planet to planet, but they really just traveled around the world.

Eventually, the Cetra quit being nomads and they made permanent settlements. Sephiroth mentions this inside the Nibelheim Mansion.

[finalfantasyguy4ever]

i think there is a good and badf lifestream like when seph summunded the dark lifestream in ac. aries is able to control the good lifestream and seph with jenova is able to control ythe dark. all those of darkness go to the bad lifestream and those of good go to the good likestream with aries;)

[boys from the dwarf]

yay! 10 points to me for noticing the references to black sabbaths amazing song "heaven and hell." in the title of the thread!

anyway. the "bad lifestream" isnt full of criminals and evil people. it is full of the people who died of geostigma. this corruption has nothing to do with people living their lives like criminals. id always imagined that when people die they return to the lifestream but when cetra die they dont truly die. they have more of an impact on the planet when they die and can manipulate the lifestream in some ways.

[Dragon Mage]

Sephiroth discovered that the Cetra were a nomadic people, so they never stayed at one certain place for too long. You're thinking that they traveled from planet to planet, but they really just traveled around the world.
Eventually, the Cetra quit being nomads and they made permanent settlements. Sephiroth mentions this inside the Nibelheim Mansion.

Okay, I get it. Sorry for the confusion. Thank you Xurts, that really cleared things up for me.

Maybe the lifestream is neutral itself but reflects the thoughts/feelings of others a person encountered or affected when they were alive. So if a person lives a life of crime, when they're in the lifestream, they feel all the things they've done to people, none of which are good. Likewise, a good person would only feel/know of all the good things they've done for people , which are good. It's an idea.

[Aralith]

This was an itinerant race. They would migrate in, settle the Planet, then move on… At the end of their harsh, hard journey, they would find the Promised Land and supreme happiness.
Xurts, I'm afraid you're wrong. This is exactly, word for word, what Sephiroth said in FFVII. Though he never specifically says "travel from planet to planet" he does say settle the Planet then move on. This pretty much says that they had some means of traveling from planet to planet. Perhaps not space travel, but some deep magic that they could use. Not really sure.

But basically, they did inhabit several planets and continued their journey until they found their own Promised Land. Since this is different for everyone, I'm sure that there are lots of people who stopped along the way and said, "this is it for me. My journey is over." This is supported by what Sephiroth says next.

But, those who stopped their migrations built shelters and elected to lead an easier life. They took that which the Cetra and the planet had made without giving back one whit in return!
Now, of course at this point he is bastardizing what it was that they really did to make himself seem more justified in his actions, but basically this means that there were some who stopped at Gaia and decided that this was there Promised Land and thus ended their journey.

In fact, the game also makes mention of a "small group" of them fighting Jenova. Well, I'd imagine that it was a small group because quite a few of the Cetra continued their journey, leaving those who wanted to stay behind. So, the Promised Land is obviously something besides the Lifestream. It can be a way to the it, but it is not neccessarily the Promised Land.

[Xurts]

Sephiroth discovered that the Cetra were a nomadic people, so they never stayed at one certain place for too long. You're thinking that they traveled from planet to planet, but they really just traveled around the world.
Eventually, the Cetra quit being nomads and they made permanent settlements. Sephiroth mentions this inside the Nibelheim Mansion.

Okay, I get it. Sorry for the confusion. Thank you Xurts, that really cleared things up for me.

Maybe the lifestream is neutral itself but reflects the thoughts/feelings of others a person encountered or affected when they were alive. So if a person lives a life of crime, when they're in the lifestream, they feel all the things they've done to people, none of which are good. Likewise, a good person would only feel/know of all the good things they've done for people , which are good. It's an idea.
Sure, no problem.

[MJN SEIFER]

Who says there has to be a Hell? In my religion, there is no hell only heavn/

[Aralith]

Hey Xurts, I'm waiting for your reply. And I mean that seriously, not like a mocking, "oh you ignored it which means you concede" kind of thing. I'd really like to hear what you have to say, because you were the one that said you were certain there was not a single piece of dialogue in the game that even hinted at the Cetra being able to space travel. Well, what do you think of my above post?

[Ryushikaze]

Actually, Aralith, Sephy's words there are rather vague, and are honestly only definitive on the point that the Cetra are migratory.

It could go either way, though. Them having migrated onto Gaia- from Spira, most likely- would explain why they and the Spirans are capable of interbreeding (The chances of two seperate planets growing lifeforms so genetically similar as to be capable of interbreeding is so ridiculous it only happens on Star Trek and other fantasy shows), though that would only account for one instance of interplanetary travel, and it would mean the Cetra philosophy would have to have developed on Spira, or that the majority of Spirans were themselves also falen Cetra.

[Aralith]

Wait, Gaianas and Spirans can breed? I wasn't aware of that. I'm guessing that that's some kind of development that was shown in Kingdom Hearts, since that's the only place I can think of where Gaians and Spirans would have met.

[sephirothishere]

i thought that cetra travelled from planet to planet seeking the promised land...some people decided to stay in gaia these are regular peoples ancestors....

[HolyMackeral]

I was under the impression that the promised land was the Northern Crater, something in the game gave me that impression though I cant remember what it was. Maybe something to do with when Sephiroth fell into the lifestream at Nibleheim, he followed the paths of the stream till he wound up at the promised land in the crater.

This could just have been HIS promised land as it was where he could gather enough energy to summon Meteor. (that would kinda make it consistent with what others say about each individuals promised land)

[Xurts]

Hey Xurts, I'm waiting for your reply. And I mean that seriously, not like a mocking, "oh you ignored it which means you concede" kind of thing. I'd really like to hear what you have to say, because you were the one that said you were certain there was not a single piece of dialogue in the game that even hinted at the Cetra being able to space travel. Well, what do you think of my above post?
I never saw your above post until you mentioned it now, actually. You posted your reply slightly after Dragon Mage posted his, and I was replying to his post at the time you posted yours. Just look at the times.



This was an itinerant race. They would migrate in, settle the Planet, then move on… At the end of their harsh, hard journey, they would find the Promised Land and supreme happiness.
Xurts, I'm afraid you're wrong. This is exactly, word for word, what Sephiroth said in FFVII. Though he never specifically says "travel from planet to planet" he does say settle the Planet then move on. This pretty much says that they had some means of traveling from planet to planet. Perhaps not space travel, but some deep magic that they could use. Not really sure.
The phrase "then move on" could mean a number of different things. I doubt Sephiroth actually means space travel. He said that they would settle the Planet and then move on....to what, exactly? To another continent? To a new task like planting crops? He could've meant space travel, yes, but don't you think that if that's what it really was, then he would've said something else about it? Like the technology used, for instance? He doesn't, he just goes on to talk about how they eventually stopped practicing a nomadic lifestyle.

Speaking of technology, if the Cetra really were capable of space travel, what happened to the technology that they used to do it? Surely they would've had extremely advanced spaceships and whatnot, right? And while time passed on their new home they would've advanced even further, developing better methods. That was not the case though. Because instead of having insanely advanced space travel technology, the Shinra were just discovering and investigating space travel in the game when they built the rocket at Rocket Town.

It's possible that the Cetra took the "beem me down, Scotty" route when they supposedly "migrated to a new planet", but why abandon all of their advanced technology and start from scratch in a totally new, alien environment that they weren't familiar with? Yes, it's possible, but I find it highly unlikely.



But, those who stopped their migrations built shelters and elected to lead an easier life. They took that which the Cetra and the planet had made without giving back one whit in return!
Now, of course at this point he is bastardizing what it was that they really did to make himself seem more justified in his actions, but basically this means that there were some who stopped at Gaia and decided that this was there Promised Land and thus ended their journey.
All that Sephiroth is saying is that the Cetra got tired of always having to move around the planet from place to place, so they built permanent settlements and stopped being nomadic.


In fact, the game also makes mention of a "small group" of them fighting Jenova. Well, I'd imagine that it was a small group because quite a few of the Cetra continued their journey, leaving those who wanted to stay behind. So, the Promised Land is obviously something besides the Lifestream. It can be a way to the it, but it is not neccessarily the Promised Land.
That's because, at the time, Jenova was wreaking havoc on the Planet and the Cetra didn't quite know what was going on. A "small band" of Cetra got wise and realized that they had to find and get rid of this creature that was causing chaos, or at least contain it.


Wait, Gaianas and Spirans can breed? I wasn't aware of that. I'm guessing that that's some kind of development that was shown in Kingdom Hearts, since that's the only place I can think of where Gaians and Spirans would have met.
You do know that FF7 and KH are two totally different games, and in their own continuities, right? Their storylines are not related.

[Ryushikaze]

To answer the question- Shinra's descendants, and assumedly other Spirans, migrated to Gaia at some point in 10's future and 7's past, though it seems they lost the technology to do so when they landed (possibly crashing), and were stuck on Gaia. Just to survive, they'd have to be able to breed with the gaians.

[Aralith]

I was under the impression that the promised land was the Northern Crater, something in the game gave me that impression though I cant remember what it was. Maybe something to do with when Sephiroth fell into the lifestream at Nibleheim, he followed the paths of the stream till he wound up at the promised land in the crater.
Actually, part of that is correct. Most of the Lifestream of the Planet was headed for the North Cave, but not because it was the Promised Land. It was all headed there to heal the wound that had been caused. You see, North Cave is actually the landing site of Jenova on the Planet, which left a tremendous scar on the land (just look at the size of the Crater). All the Lifestream was gathered there to heal the wound, which is also why the land immediately surrounding the crash site is barren and snowy. Anyways, the Lifestream took Sephiroth to North Cave for this reason, not because it was the Promised Land.


It's possible that the Cetra took the "beem me down, Scotty" route when they supposedly "migrated to a new planet", but why abandon all of their advanced technology and start from scratch in a totally new, alien environment that they weren't familiar with? Yes, it's possible, but I find it highly unlikely.

Well, perhaps not beaming, but maybe a method similar to the way Jenova came onto the Planet. They mention a few times throughout the game that Jenova came on a large meteor. This would explain how she was able to travel from planet to planet.

The link I'm providing below links to a thread in here about the origins of the Black Materia and the mechanics thereof.

http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=86600

While it is just a theory, it's a rather good one that I believe to be true as well. It describes in great length how the Black Materia might have allowed Jenova to travel from planet to planet. I contend that the Cetra could have done a similar thing, perhaps utilizing the White Materia in some way. My point is, there are lots of other ways to get around in space in the FFVII world. Ships and beaming (obviously a facetious remark) are only a few ways.

[Lena]

I guess hell would be that your soul, which was happily running through the lifestream was suddenly sucked by a Mako Reactor, procesed and then used to light up Hojo´s lab...

[Xurts]

I find the whole idea of 10 being related to 7 to be utterly ridiculous. It's an insult to both games' storylines (or more like a compliment to 10's because it sucked to begin with). Thinking up theories to make the 10-7 relation seem more sensible is stupid (I'm not trying to attack anyone here), at least I think so.


Well, perhaps not beaming, but maybe a method similar to the way Jenova came onto the Planet. They mention a few times throughout the game that Jenova came on a large meteor. This would explain how she was able to travel from planet to planet.
If the Cetra were capable of traveling through space, then they had to have done it in some sort of spaceship where there was air present. I like the idea of them crashing there better than them "beaming down". The only problem I have with that is that it is hard for me to believe that if they were indeed capable of traveling through space, that they wouldn't have mastered the landing part of it. Especially if they were nomadic and traveled from planet to planet as you suggest.


The link I'm providing below links to a thread in here about the origins of the Black Materia and the mechanics thereof.

http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=86600

While it is just a theory, it's a rather good one that I believe to be true as well. It describes in great length how the Black Materia might have allowed Jenova to travel from planet to planet. I contend that the Cetra could have done a similar thing, perhaps utilizing the White Materia in some way. My point is, there are lots of other ways to get around in space in the FFVII world. Ships and beaming (obviously a facetious remark) are only a few ways.
The problem I see immediately with that theory is that he says that the Black Materia was created by some sort of "Black Lifestream". The Black/Negative Lifestream did not exist until someone died from Geostigma, and Geostigma did not exist until Jenova was destroyed in the game and the Lifestream sprouted up from the planet at the end.

The FF7 Ultimania states that the Black Materia was "given" to the Cetra, not that they took it or found it after Jenova crashed there. It also does not mention anything about it being in Jenova's possesion or it (Jenova) using the Black Materia to crash into the planet.

As for the White Materia:

**The White Materia: Holy** (005.3B)
The only means of opposing Meteor, the Ultimate White Magic was passed down
amongst the Ancients. It is said that when an Ancient learns of Holy in the
Forgotten Capital, prays at the water altar and their mind then links to the
Planet, Holy is thereby put into operation. Passed down through the Ancients'
generations, the White Materia came to Aerith from her mother, Ifalna, and she
kept it hidden in a ribbon in her hair.

How exactly Holy applies its power once invoked and in operation is not
definite. It is simply known that "all that is bad for the Planet will
disappear."

(Accompanying screenshot caption)
As evidence of the Planet accepting Aerith's prayer, the White Materia laying
on the water bed shines a pale green color. However, Holy's movement was being
held back by the wicked will of Sephiroth, who had called Meteor.

No where in that quote does it mention anything about the Cetra using it to travel through space and collonize other planets. It simply says it exists to counter the Black Materia, and that it destroys "all that is bad for the Planet".

[HolyMackeral]

I find the whole idea of 10 being related to 7 to be utterly ridiculous. It's an insult to both games' storylines (or more like a compliment to 10's because it sucked to begin with). Thinking up theories to make the 10-7 relation seem more sensible is stupid (I'm not trying to attack anyone here), at least I think so.

Well I believe this may sway those thoughts


As some fans of Final Fantasy VII, X and X-2 may or may not know, the worlds
of the two games share a plot-related connection. The connection's existance
was established during an interview with Yoshinori Kitase (lead developer of
the Final Fantasy series) and Kazushige Nojima (the scenario writer of Final
Fantasy VII, Before Crisis, Advent Children, Final Fantasy VIII, Final Fantasy
X, Final Fantasy X-2 and the Kingdom Hearts series) in 2002, as featured in
the Final Fantasy X Ultimania Omega guidebook, an official Square-Enix
publication.

This interview established that there would be a connection between the two
worlds, though it didn't detail it. However, based on what was later revealed
to be the connection, it's clear that it had already been conceived, as
Kitase hints at it with his final word on the subject. In 2003, the exact
nature of the concept was finally revealed in the Final Fantasy X-2 Ultimania,
having been hinted toward by a few elements of the game.

Nojima revealed that Shinra of the Gullwings, an Al Bhed child prodigy and
inventor of various machinery, would attempt using the remains of Vegnagun --
the behemoth machina Shuyin tried to destroy Spira with -- to extract life
energy from the Farplane and use it to power machines. Shinra would attempt
doing this as a result of his analysis of the Farplane late in the game.
During this diagnostic, Shinra concluded that there was a great deal of energy
floating around inside the Farplane, and that it was most likely the life
force of Spira, which could be extracted and used as a power source; however,
he concluded that it would take generations to properly implement the idea.

Further of note is that Nojima explained that the Al Bhed entrepeneur Rin also
was interested in extracting mako from the Farplane, and that he provided
Shinra with the funding to make the attempt. For his part, Rin's desire to do
this is revealed during the game should he be uncovered as the culprit behind
covering up the malfunctioning machina disaster on the Mi'hen Highroad.

Nojima went on to say that Shinra's attempts to use Vegnagun's remains failed
and that he was unable to complete the concept of mako-extraction, just as
Shinra had predicted. However, some 1000 years later, once space travel became
possible, Shinra's descendants would go on a voyage to the world of Final
Fantasy VII. There, at some point in the future, they would be successful in
utilizing the concept, and would provide electricity from the Planet for a
price; these descendants would found the Shin-Ra Company of Final Fantasy VII.

The connection would again be hinted toward in the Final Fantasy X-2:
International+Last Mission (released in 2004) game's Last Mission scenario, in
which Rikku revealed that Rin and Shinra had begun working together. Next,
the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega guidebook (released in September, 2005)
also brings forth mention of the concept, and, finally, the connection may
have received further indication through Dirge of Cerberus (released in
January, 2006) and the Advent Children Reunion Files book (released in May,
2006), in which it is established that the Shera airship seen in Advent
Children and Dirge of Cerberus runs on ancient, lost non-mako technology that
Cid discovered. This technology very well may have originally belonged to
Shinra's descendants, as they are the only previous inhabitants of VII's world
indicated to have been in possession of advanced technology, and because the
interior of the Shera bears some aesthetic resemblances to those of the
Fahrenheit and Celsius airships that figure prominently into FFX and FFX-2
(though the Shera's interior bears more of a resemblance to the Celsius').

I will here present the dialogue from Final Fantasy X-2 that hints at the
connection, as well as the interviews and other translations that establish
its existance as part of official Final Fantasy continuity.

***Dialogue with Rin from Final Fantasy X-2***
Rin
"You are suggesting that my decision to upgrade the machina resulted in a
number of casualties... ... and that I tried to cover it up?"

Yuna
"You put the investigation in our hands because we were amateurs. You hoped we
would botch the case."

Yuna
"And then, I kept calling you even though I didn't have any leads."

Yuna
"You would have objected to the meaningless interruptions, if you really
wanted to solve the case."

Rin
"I see. It appears that I have underestimated you, Yuna."

Rikku
"Why, Rin?"

Rin
"If word got out that machina pose a danger, people would fear them and stop
using them."

Paine
"So Yevon's not alone in sweeping things under the rug."

Rin
"I firmly believe that machina are an indispensable part of Spira's
development."

Rin
"Even if there is another incident, I intend to conceal the evidence."

Yuna
"You really think people will follow you that way?"

Rin
"I am not alone in my thinking."

Rin
"We are researching ways to extract the vast energy that sleeps in Spira, and
use it to power machina."

Paine
"You're a jackass."

Rin
"I will take that as a compliment."



***Dialogue with Shinra from Final Fantasy X-2***
Shinra
"Aha..."

Yuna
"What are you looking at?"

Shinra
"Farplane data."

Shinra
"The more I study it, the more fascinating it gets. There's limitless energy
swirling around in there."

Yuna
"Limitless energy?"

Shinra
"The life force that flows through our planet...I think."

Shinra
"With a little work, we could probably extract the energy in a useable form."

Brother
"Sweet!"

Shinra
"Of course, that'd take generations."

Brother
"That's no fun!"

Buddy
"Well, still, it is something worth shooting for."

Yuna
"Think how much Spira would change if we ever got it to work!"

Yuna
"Maybe one day we could build a city full of light, one that never sleeps!"

Shinra
"No doubt about it."



***Dialogue with Rikku from Final Fantasy X-2: International+Last Mission***
Paine
"These days, people are always looking for sunken machina."

Rikku
"Yup-yup!"

Yuna
"Oh? Has Shinra been helping you with that?"

Rikku
"Ahh, now that you bring it up..."

Rikku
"Well, he left the ship and got together with Rin, and what do you think all
that research they've been doing is about?"



***Interview with Yoshinori Kitase and Kazushige Nojima in the Final Fantasy X
Ultimania Omega*** (Page 191)
**FFVII and FFX are connected?!**
--"Previously, with a conversation in the FFX Scenario Ultimania, you made
certain inferences, and since it's been about half a year since then, is there
anything new you'd like to clarify about FFX?"

Kitase
"That's true...... Now that FFX International is out and we're in the future,
I'm in a predicament; it really isn't that hard to think of another story
[set] in that world; room for expansion was left possible there without too
much difficulty, don't you think? Speaking conversely, FFX received a splendid
reception and made us think of adding to it."

Nojima
"After FFVII was finished, we were easily able to add Zack's open[-ended role]
into the International version. But, with X, there was an older story with a
partly-finished world and an opening that this new one could be added to and
[, in doing] so[,] complete it."

Kitase
"So, you could say [in terms of] time, Nojima-san decided to designate it to
act as a sequel to VII, if you follow me."


--"It's a sequel to VII!!"

Kitase
"Well, there was a joke right there. Simply put, in VII's ending, Holy came,
and the next thing you knew, it was over without closing things up, and then
it was the "500 years later" [scene] in the future. There's a large margin
buried there. A margin for the imagination. Nojima-san and Toriyama are going
to be filling something of that with VII, though, while they're at their best
and can do it."


--"So, will it become a sequel to VII's story?"

Nojima
"I have a strong feeling that they're going to be connected."


--"Huh, so VII and X ARE connected?"

Nojima
"Well, there's not many specifics to it. I know that what becomes of people
when they die is among them; you could say that it's basically the same. Both
[concepts came to] function along the same line of thought as I wrote the
stories. Sometimes my thoughts just flow out like that, even though pyreflies
distinctly aren't green."


--"When you speak of the dead becoming [something] green, do you perhaps
[mean]......?"

Nojima
"Yes. In my mind, pyreflies and VII's Lifestream are the same substance."

Kitase
"Nojima-san's even considering making use of an idea like this -- [with] an
addition to the idea of life origin -- in a sequel to FFX International.
That's just a little bit of the thought that's been going into what to do with
VII."

Nojima
"That's right. There's something like the Lifestream [in X's world
also]......."


--"'An addition to the idea of life origin'......does that mean you're going
to revise life origin concepts or something?"

Nojima
"I can't say......it's a secret (laughs)."

Kitase
"It's a surprise with how someone from the story conducts theirself with
regards to the Farplane."



***Interview with FFX-2 creators from the Final Fantasy X-2 Ultimania***
(Page 723)
**"So, what of this child, Shinra......"**
--"Among these latest stories, 'connected' is one of the key words becoming
applicable, isn't it?"

[Daisuke] Watanabe
"I personally like the word 'connected,' but there's one aspect where that
applies well."

Nojima
"During the game's progression, various vague things will be tied together to
reveal it."


--"For example, the name 'Shinra' suggests a connection with VII? There's
[what's said] in the 'Graduation Mission' scenario [ -- 'graduation'
referring to Shinra being soon to leave the Gullwings -- ], and the 'I am not
alone in my thinking' line from the 'Rin's Detective Work' scenario seems to
have some particular significance."

Nojima
"Actually, it does. After quitting the Gullwings, Shinra received enormous
financial support from Rin, and began trying to use Vegnagun to siphon Mako
Energy from the Farplane. But, he is unable to complete the system for
utilizing this energy in his generation, and in the future, when traveling to
distant planets becomes possible, the Shin-Ra Company is founded on another
world, or something like that....... That would happen about 1000 years after
this story, I think."


--"So VII's story is after that?"

Nojima
"Well, you could say the feelings I have are like that. When I think about the
characters, those are the kinds of feelings I already have. Shinra is a good
child, but his descendants are going to end up becoming like the president [of
Shin-Ra] (laughs)."

Watanabe
"With you said about VII, after seeing your episodes with Shinra, one of the
people on the [development] staff said that the first shot of the Bevelle
Underground 'gives the impression of somewhere else.'"

[Motomu] Toriyama
"Certainly; it looks like the opening shot of Midgar in VII."



***Information on Shinra of the Gullwings in the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania
Omega*** (Page 563)
Shinra is a boy who supports the Gullwings, the group which the main
protagonist, Yuna, belongs to. He carries a name that gives him an association
to the Shin-Ra Company, and he is researching a method that could utilize the
energy of "the life force that flows through our planet." The results of this
cannot be seen in FFX-2, but maybe one day his descendants will establish a
"company that supplies the energy of the planet"?

(Accompanying screenshot caption)
The words of Shinra, which can be heard at the end of the story. This world
has something similar to the Lifestream that is worthy of attention.



***Interview with FFVII creators from the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania
Omega*** (Page 571)
--"At E3 (the world's largest game show, which was held in America), as a demo
for the PS3, the opening of FFVII was shown; was its purpose to serve as
something of a preliminary announcement?

Kitase
"Well, in regard to that, please think of it as a mere demonstration. Because
the production period for its imagery was [going to be] so short, we made the
opening of FFVII, as it was easy to represent. Beyond that, there is no
particular deeper meaning.


--"In that case, it's not a remake; when might you be making something to
serve as the direct continuation of FFX-2?"

Kitase
"Producing something like that holds the same problem as a remake [of FFVII],
as our schedule just isn't open for it [right now]."



***Information concerning the Shera and fuel in the Advent Children Reunion
Files book*** (Page 87)
What do they use for fuel in this time period?
"Cloud and the gang certainly aren't using mako anymore, because it drains the
life of the planet. That means they don't use Materia, either. Yuffie collects
them, but that's just because she lives to collect things (laughs). I guess
the airship must be running on some mysterious ancient power source." (Nomura)


Also I discovered this last night while playing


Cloud picked up the Black Materia.

Cloud: Mmm? Can you guys use it?

Aerith: Nope, we can't use it right now. You need great spiritual power to use
it.

Cloud: You mean lots of Spiritual energy?

Aerith: That's right. One person's power alone won't do it. Somewhere special.
Where there's plenty of the Planet's energy... Oh yeah! The Promised Land!!

Cloud: The Promised Land!! No, but...

Aerith: Sephiroth is different. He's not an Ancient.

Cloud: He shouldn't be able to find the Promised Land.

Sephiroth: ...Ah, but I have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a
traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.
And soon, I will create the future.


When Jenova landed at the North Cave, the energy gathered to heal the wound in a way created the promised land. This is the great spiritual energy Aeris meantions above, and as Sephiroth travelled the stream he found it. Just reinforcing what I said earlier.

[Dragon Mage]

Erm...I don't want to get involved in this argument but I feel I should make a small suggestion to Xurts.

The Ancients were more 'magical' than scientific. I mean this as in they were more spiritual (talking with the planet, studying the lifestream, ect.) and thus leaned to a spiritual lifestyle instead of scientific, such as ours is today. Think of planet/lifestream equals magic, since the planet and lifestream produce materia, which enable people to use magic. So they would know of powers that science could possibly never duplicate. Science today has revealed evidence of other dimensions (not to be confused with a 'plane of existence'. That's entirely different.) The Cetra could have used their extensive use of magic to open portals to other worlds while traveling in these other dimensions/ extra dimensional space. They could literally travel through time and space using magic and using these dimensions as a medium to travel through.
Magic can do a lot of things, such as instantaneous transportation. So when they opened a 'portal' they would step through and be instantly transported to another world. Thus the needs for air and spaceships wouldn't be needed. And if they did use spaceships they would have had you master faster-than-light speed, which is impossible.
Also the dimensions may have a completely different set of laws of physics and such, so that instantaneous transportation could be possible, or the ability to travel faster than light. But even than you would need to use magic to open portals into these other dimensions, and what would be the point of developing and making spaceships if you can just instantly teleport yourself? I believe this is what Aralith is referring to when he says "deep magic".

Again, this is just a suggestion as to what Aralith may be talking about and I'm just trying to solidify the grounds of this argument. Just trying to help both sides here.

[Xurts]

HolyMackeral, sorry, but I'm not reading that. Nothing is going to make me think otherwise.


When Jenova landed at the North Cave, the energy gathered to heal the wound in a way created the promised land. This is the great spiritual energy Aeris meantions above, and as Sephiroth travelled the stream he found it. Just reinforcing what I said earlier.
The Promised Land is not one certain place. It varies from person to person.

Dragon Mage, when you get into matters like dimensions and portals and things like that, they become incredibly complicated, so I am not getting in to it. I doubt that Square intended the Cetra to be so complicated.

[Dragon Mage]

Sorry. But I couldn't resist trying to make a logical explaination for it. And your right, Square wouldn't get that complicated about the Cetra. "It's an excuse for the plot. That's why." That's probably what they would say. But anyway, I just had to throw in my reasoning.