World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade

[Skyblade]

Well, I must say, I am looking forward to this expansion. So far, the majority of their additions are looking good. Their expanded talents, new abilities, flying mounts, new monsters, and Outland itself are all hunky dory. I do, however, have a problem with the Dranei. Specifically, the history of the Dranei recently released by Blizzard contradicts the information that we have been given in Warcraft III and World of Warcraft.


To combat the demonic entities that made their way into the Titans' worlds from the Twisting Nether, the Pantheon elected their greatest warrior, Sargeras, to act as their first line of defense. Sargeras, a noble giant of molten bronze, carried out his duties for countless millennia, seeking out and destroying the demons wherever he could find them. Over the eons, Sargeras encountered two powerful demonic races, both of which were bent on gaining power and dominance over the physical universe.

The Eredar, an insidious race of devilish sorcerers, used their warlock magics to enslave a number of worlds that they had invaded. The indigenous races of those worlds were mutated by the Eredar's chaotic powers and turned into demons themselves. Though Sargeras' nearly limitless powers were more than enough to defeat the vile Eredar, he was greatly troubled by the creatures' corruption and all-consuming evil. Unable to fathom such depravity and spite, the great Titan slipped into a brooding depression. Despite his growing unease, Sargeras sought to rid the universe of the warlocks for all time, by trapping them within a vacuous corner of the Twisting Nether.

And then we have this information, from the history of the Dranei that Blizzard has recently released:


Nearly twenty-five thousand years ago, the eredar race arose on the world of Argus. They were extremely intelligent and had a natural affinity for magic in all its myriad forms. Using their gifts, they developed a vast and wondrous society.
Unfortunately the eredar's accomplishments caught the attention of Sargeras, the Destroyer of Worlds. He had already begun his Burning Crusade to eradicate all life from the cosmos, and he believed that the brilliant eredar would be pivotal in leading the vast demonic army he was gathering. Thus, he contacted the eredar's three most prominent leaders: Kil'jaeden, Archimonde, and Velen. In exchange for the loyalty of the eredar race, Sargeras offered untold power and knowledge.

Now, according to the original information, the evil of the Eredar was part of the cause of Sargeras' corruption and transformation into the Dark Titan who was the bane of all life. But the recent info says that the Burning Crusade had already started by the time Sargeras encountered the Eredar.

How hard could it be for a company as rich as Blizzard to fact check information they've distributed a few dozen times? I've put up with a lot (I didn't even complain that much when the basic plot of Warcraft III turned out to be nearly identical to that of Starcraft), but come on, Blizzard, pay some attention to what you say every once in a while!

[stuffing]

Yes yes, we all know that Metzen screwed up. He wrote the story a long time ago so give him a break.

[Tavrobel]

Yes yes, we all know that Metzen screwed up is the only person who actually writes anything that has anything to do with the game's plots whatsoever, so it's not surprising that no one else caught him in his faux pas. He wrote the story a long time ago is endlessly awesome and should be worshipped like a freaking god, so give him a break, because he's not Sargeras.

[stuffing]

thanks for the fix :0

[Madame Adequate]

I have a bigger problem with Elves being on the same side as the Undead and Trolls.

[Tavrobel]

Blood Elves. All things red are obviously evil. Especially those who rely on large mounts.

Not that Orcs or Trolls are evil. That's just foolish.

[Endless]

I'm glad that they're putting Blood Elves in the Horde for two reasons:
1) Kids will play Horde and maybe the overall level of the Alliance will rise.
2) The idea that the Alliance is good and the Horde is evil needs a swift kick to the face. TBC contributes to the kicking.

[Markus. D]

muahaha,

yay for the horde! maybe finally they will overdominate the Alliance.

yahh... weehh.... >_>

[Madame Adequate]

I'm glad that they're putting Blood Elves in the Horde for two reasons:
1) Kids will play Horde and maybe the overall level of the Alliance will rise.
2) The idea that the Alliance is good and the Horde is evil needs a swift kick to the face. TBC contributes to the kicking.

Err... no it doesn't, it does the exact opposite. It reduces the Blood Elves to being a bunch of mercenary murderers, shows that the Draenei (One of the few races it seems are really good, like the Alliance equivalent of the Tauren) joined the Alliance pretty much by default, and generally reinforces going back to Horde evil, Alliance good.

[~SapphireStar~]

I like the idea of evil elves. Finally the Horde gets a sexy race!

[Endless]

How are the Blood Elves evil? They're no more evil than Orcs are, or the Forsakens. How are they even "mercenary murderers"?

[Madame Adequate]

Primarily because they've captured a Naaru and, basically, tortured it until they learnt its secrets. Their use of the light is a defilement and an affont (Although to be fair the only Alliance race which actually comes close to being good enough to use the Light in the first place are the Dwarves.), and every time a Blood Knight throws a spell around it will be profane.

And the Forsaken are pretty fucking evil too, so yeah, they're about on a level. I'm not saying neither of them have a good reason to be evil, but that doesn't change the fact that they are pretty /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gifty.

It was before TBC that the Horde could easily be argued to be more good than the Alliance. Now, the at least hugely questionable race of the Blood Elves joined the Horde (Okay, nowhere else for them to go, but the Horde didn't have to let them in.), whilst the completely unblemished and blameless race of the Draenei joined the Alliance, pretty much without looking at the situation at all.

It is pretty clear that Blizz's idea is that the Horde are the bad guys and the Alliance are the good guys, despite the several years they've just spent trying to be more nuanced.

Edit: They are mercenary because they will do anything for a hit of magic and they are murderers because of pretty much the same reason.

[stuffing]

I, for one, am rolling a Draenei Shaman.

And by the way, if you know your Warcraft lore, you'll know that the Nightelves hate the Highelves ( aka Bloodelves ) for using magic and whatnot.

[Endless]

Primarily because they've captured a Naaru and, basically, tortured it until they learnt its secrets. Their use of the light is a defilement and an affont (Although to be fair the only Alliance race which actually comes close to being good enough to use the Light in the first place are the Dwarves.), and every time a Blood Knight throws a spell around it will be profane.

Sure it's bent, but in the end, they're fighting the Scourge and the Burning Legion. There are warlocks in the alliance who rely on fel energy, but it doesn't make the Humans & Gnomes as a whole "evil". Same goes for the Orcs and Undead.


And the Forsaken are pretty smurfing evil too, so yeah, they're about on a level. I'm not saying neither of them have a good reason to be evil, but that doesn't change the fact that they are pretty /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gifty.

But they are doing their hardest to get rid of the Scourge, and help the Orcs/Taurens/Trolls in their fights. There are even priests. :p


It was before TBC that the Horde could easily be argued to be more good than the Alliance. Now, the at least hugely questionable race of the Blood Elves joined the Horde (Okay, nowhere else for them to go, but the Horde didn't have to let them in.), whilst the completely unblemished and blameless race of the Naaru joined the Alliance, pretty much without looking at the situation at all.

I suppose you mean Draenei, since the Naruu =/= Draenei. Anyway, why the Horde? Well, the Night Elves can't stand them (to say the least), and some might see their past alliance with the Naga as not great. However, they are also trying to get rid/put under control their addiction to magic, much like the Orcs had to do to get rid of the cursed blood of Mannoroth. that's why the Tauren and the Orcs can accept them, because they see the similarities with what the Orcs went through. The BE/Forsaken link is more complicated because of the hatred of the BE for everything undead, but at the same time the knowledge that many of their dead friends/families are now part of the Forsaken. Sylvanas, for example.


It is pretty clear that Blizz's idea is that the Horde are the bad guys and the Alliance are the good guys, despite the several years they've just spent trying to be more nuanced.

I think it's pretty clear that it's not black & white like you think it is.


Edit: They are mercenary because they will do anything for a hit of magic and they are murderers because of pretty much the same reason.

The BE joining the Horde are the ones who can keep in check their lust for magic energy. those who don't go mad. :p

[Madame Adequate]

But they are doing their hardest to get rid of the Scourge, and help the Orcs/Taurens/Trolls in their fights. There are even priests. :p

And when you roll a Forsaken priest, and talk to Shadow Priest Sarvis, you'll see where I'm coming from :p


I suppose you mean Draenei, since the Naruu =/= Draenei. Anyway, why the Horde? Well, the Night Elves can't stand them (to say the least), and some might see their past alliance with the Naga as not great. However, they are also trying to get rid/put under control their addiction to magic, much like the Orcs had to do to get rid of the cursed blood of Mannoroth. that's why the Tauren and the Orcs can accept them, because they see the similarities with what the Orcs went through. The BE/Forsaken link is more complicated because of the hatred of the BE for everything undead, but at the same time the knowledge that many of their dead friends/families are now part of the Forsaken. Sylvanas, for example.

Yes, my mistake with Naaru, I fixed it now. And I'm not saying the Blood Elves have much of an alternative to the Horde (Although honestly, WoW should have three factions: Horde, Alliance, Illidan.) but that doesn't necessarily mean the Horde will accept them in return. There's no way Trolls and Elves are going to view each other as anything other than mortal enemies. The Forsaken are only there because Magatha pulled strings for her own ends - the Horde is being extremely unwise in making two alliances of convenience like this. They actually only have three reliable races - and there aren't that many Darkspear Trolls or Orcs left. Which I suppose is the justification for it, now that I think of it. But I still think it's very unwise.


The BE joining the Horde are the ones who can keep in check their lust for magic energy. those who don't go mad. :p

Well yeah, except that the entire species appears to have gone mad in their lust for magic. xD

[Tavrobel]

Well yeah, except that the entire species appears to have gone mad in their lust for magic. xD
Kael retains his sanity throughout the entirety of TFT (speaking for most of the BE).

Doesn't seem like they've gone mad.

Yet.

[NINJA_Ryu]

Give it time my friend, but really, they should of had the 3 factions MILF was talkin about, because at the end of TFT, it was pretty much Horde vs Alliance vs Illidan, but illidan was on outland and everyone else was on azroth.

As for the races, it doesnt matter to me, although im a tad PO that the alliance can shamanize, and vice versa.

But, ive quit a long time ago, id rather keep 12 dollars a month that could be put to better use.

[Skyblade]

To quote the Blood Mage from Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, "Hi, my name is Roy, I'm a magic addict".

Or, of course: "My blood cries out for the vengeance of my people's blood, which can only be repaid by at least twice as much blood. Or maybe three times as much blood. Like if you went to Hell, and it was full of blood, and that blood was on fire, and it was raining blood, and maybe that would be enough blood. But, probably not".

Are those the rantings of a sane race?



Anyway, I agree that they seem to be setting things back to the Horde = Bad, Alliance = Good standard. I mean, since they set the two factions at each others throat, pretty much all the "can't we just all get along" sentiment of the Horde that they built up in the Orc missions in Warcraft III has gone away. Apparently the acts of a single human (one Grand Admiral Daelin Proudmoore) was enough to convince even Thrall that humans and the entire Alliance are evil, and must be shown no mercy. Despite the number of threats that are facing both races (Arthas and the Scourge, the Black Dragonflight, Ragnaros [either of whom would have wiped out both factions by now if they weren't too busy fighting each other], the Qiraji, and now the rest of the Burning Legion in Outland), yet still they refuse to have anything to do with one another? Hell, at least the Alliance has a pretty good reason. The humans are being run by a dragon (Bolvar may be a good fighter, but he's not the brainiest guy in the Keep), the dwarves are fighting both the Dark Irons and the sudden Trogg attacks from all their archaelogical groups, the Gnomes have irradiated their entire city, and the elves are trying to fix their forests while reeling from the loss of Furion (and I still think that the new Arch-Druid was the cause of Furion's disappearance from the Emerald Dream). For the most part, they don't seem too focused on the Horde at all. Yet, when I started a Horde character, I got nothing but a bunch of "the humans cannot be trusted, yada yada yada" stuff (granted, my Horde character is nowhere near as far along as my Alliance guys, so I'm probably being unfair, but still). Personally, I loved the fact that they had to join forces in Warcraft III, and I would like to see it happen again. Except for the Battlegrounds (and, considering that both forces are facing total annihilation at the hands of several enemies, those are really stupid things to be fighting about), there is no real conflict going on between the two, but there hasn't even been an attempt at peace. I want some cross-faction quests. You can gain rep with the other faction, learn their languages, get new recipes, eventually group with them. It'd be a nice alternative for people who don't like PvP. Maybe the leaders can't keep the thousands of idiots beneath them from slaughtering each other without provocation, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't at least try to make peace.

Er, sorry, didn't mean to ramble on so much there. Oh, well, that's my thoughts on the subject.

On good thing about the expansion is that with a level cap of 70, a casual player may finally be able to join a PuG and complete a 45 minute Baron run. Those stupid quests are way too hard. >.<

[Endless]

The new level cap and quests/dungeons/instances' rewards will quickly make t0/t0.5 obsolete anyway (remember, t0 starts at level 52/53) xD So no point doing that silly Baron 45 run.


Anyway, back to the BE. Their main motivation is not evilness (regardless of the quote of the BM in TFT, since Metzen has the "Bend Lore" talent, and used it), but rather desperation. This is all the more true that the BE in TBC are not joined with Kael'thas (they seek a way to reach the Outlands and Kael'thas), and meanwhile are trying to deal with their addiction. Also, when/if you'll play the low level BE quests, you'll see there's a fairly clear distinction between the BE junkies and the BE in the Horde. :p

[bipper]

The game already has dwarfs. There is really no room for improvment after they developed this suppiror race.

Bipper

[Markus. D]

this game still needs bards with harps.

[Madame Adequate]

The game already has dwarfs. There is really no room for improvment after they developed this suppiror race.

Bipper

Dwarves and Tauren, I would note. Short of making Murlocs playable, it's hard to see improvement.


This is all the more true that the BE in TBC are not joined with Kael'thas (they seek a way to reach the Outlands and Kael'thas), and meanwhile are trying to deal with their addiction.

So... how/why did Kael'thas send the Naaru to Quel'thalas? What about Rommath? The objective of the Blood Elves is to meet up with their leader, Kael'thas. This might change as they actually learn about him, but if it's intended for them to have any other major objective at the start of the game, Blizz did an even /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.giftier job than usual with the lore.

[Slicksword45]

[QUOTE=Tavrobel;1867179]Blood Elves. All things red are obviously evil. Especially those who rely on large mounts.
[QUOTE]

Dra.... Dria... Draine.... DAMN!

I can't spell the new alliance race....

but anyway, on that logic they are evil. have you seen the video on youtube? It's bigger then a Kodo. BIGGER THEN A FREAKING KODO!!!!!

:)

[Tavrobel]

To quote the Blood Mage from Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, "Hi, my name is Roy, I'm a magic addict".
"My blood cries out for the vengeance of my people's blood, which can only be repaid by at least twice as much blood. Or maybe three times as much blood. Like if you went to Hell, and it was full of blood, and that blood was on fire, and it was raining blood, and maybe that would be enough blood. But, probably not".

Are those the rantings of a sane race?

On good thing about the expansion is that with a level cap of 70, a casual player may finally be able to join a PuG and complete a 45 minute Baron run. Those stupid quests are way too hard. >.<

Depends on the source. If it's from a non-campaign unit, then it can't be taken seriously in regards to the situation of the race, thought it may have some indicative factor on the situation. Mostly, it's sattire. (E.g., Kael speech versus normal Blood Mage Hero unit post-four-clicks speech)

Also, the Blood Elves in the Horde don't show any sign of having been in contact with Kael anytime recently. This game needs more Murlocs, or perhaps, or even better yet, the Pandaren.

However, I love the new level cap. Too bad all those people who did all those runs at MC (or other ones, MC just sticks out because it was mentioned) or on battlefields (or random creep killing) at level 60 will lose all of that experience that they thought they could not get. Too bad. There's this chart on the main WoW community that you can list out all your skills and plan ahead. Assuming they don't throw anything new at us.



Dra.... Dria... Draine.... DAMN!
I can't spell the new alliance race....

but anyway, on that logic they are evil. have you seen the video on youtube? It's bigger then a Kodo. BIGGER THEN A FREAKING KODO!!!!!


Ohh, damn, did I forget to wrap my response in sarcasm tags again?

You do know that we have listed the name of the new Alliance Race MUTLIPLE times over the course of this thread, all over the internet, and was released as public information several months ago? Since you don't understand that a reference to Conservatives is bad and smacking of evil, I will tell you now, that the new Alliance Race are the Wisps. Where did you get "Draenei" from? That's just silly. And sad. Foolish little newbie.