Forsaken Lover
09-15-2006, 04:27 AM
Kuja vs. Sephiroth - the confrontation of the silver-haired Playstation sensation...s. Kuja, the poetic yet nearly unknown antagonist of Final Fantasy IX against Sephiroth, the universally-known and giant sword-wielding villain of Final Fantasy VII. There have been two threads like this in the past on this forum but both lacked a nice thorough evaluation of each character. I will provide this as the start for this topic.
SEPHIROTH
Motives- The key to any true good villain is their motivation. Why are they evil? Sephiroth was a noble soldier and war hero, admired by young men. One day, he goes on a mission and reads some books in a secret government laboratory.
Sephiroth: (reading a book) …an organism that was apparently dead, was found in 2000 year old geological stratum. Professor Gast named that organism, Jenova… Year, X Month, X Day. Jenova confirmed to be an Ancient …X Year, X Month, X
Day. Jenova Project approved. The use of Mako Reactor I approved for use… My other's name is Jenova… Jenova Project… Is this just a coincidence? Professor Ga st… Why didn't you tell me anything? …Why did you die?
Short time later...
Sephiroth: Don't you get it? An Ancient named Jenova was found in the geological stratum of 2000 years ago. The Jenova Project. The Jenova Project
wanted to produce people with the powers of the Ancients……no, the Cetra! …I am the one that was produced.
From the lies told him and his own bizarre logic, Sephiroth deduced he was “created” and a test-tube baby. This conveniently severed any ties he had with humanity which he seems to have also fabricated a story for.
Sephiroth: Long ago, disaster struck this planet. Your ancestors escaped… They survived because they hid. The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After that, your ancestors continued to increase. Now all that's left of the Cetra is in these reports.
So, Sephiroth’s motives are a righteous hate for humanity. To avenge his “ancestors” and mother, he must kill and “take back” the Planet from humans. He then proceeds to perform his infamous rampage in Nibelheim.
But, isn’t this knowledge invalid? He wasn’t created. He wasn’t a Cetra. The “mother” of his was the real thing that wiped out the Cetra. This is fact. Yet, Sephiroth...
Sephiroth: ...Ah, but I have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.
That is Sephiroth at the Temple of the Ancients. Examine these quotes well. He has gained the knowledge of the Ancients which would include his righteous hate for humanity being non-existent. Thus, his motivation and reasons for going evil are moot.
Power- Now, Sephiroth’s power..what is it? He went into the Lifestream and is now at Northern Crater. He’s stuck there, trapped in materia. His power (never even explained) was the ability to control Jenova’s body and the other Sephiroth clones. In this way, Aeris and the workers at Shinra HQ were killed. Sephiroth himself does absolutely nothing throughout the game except stay stuck in the Crater. His main goal and use of power to attain his goal was Meteor. However, Meteor can be used by anyone.
Aerith: Nope, we can't use it right now. You need great spiritual power to use it.
Cloud: You mean lots of Spiritual energy?
Aerith: That's right. One person's power alone won't do it. Somewhere special. Where there's plenty of the Planet's energy... Oh yeah! The Promised Land!
So, even the “great Sephiroth” to use the terminology of the Sephiroth clones and fans (who have a remarkable likeness in the extent of their brainpower) was incapable of wielding such magic. No one could unless they were at a place of immense power that gave them a big power boost. So, there goes Sephiroth’s amazing power right down the drain.
But, I suppose I should examine Advent Children. He then keeps his consciousness from being assimilated into the Lifestream thanks more to the Jenova cells he was born with than anything else and the three Silver-Haired Men are born. In the end, Kadaj gains Jenova’s head and here is Sephiroth again. His goal now - to traverse the stars using the Jenova cells to contaminate and control the Planet. Again, not his power. Jenova’s. He’s piggybacking on it.
Appearance- Now we al know we are shallow and how a character looks can sway our opinion. Sephiroth is very stereotypical for a villain. Dressed all in black, rather tall and armed with a massive blade, he represents what most villains should look like and what you expect them to look like.
Accomplishments-
Burned down and kill some people in Nibelheim
Used Jenova’s body to kill people in Shinra HQ.
Killed Aeris
Summoned Meteor - failed to achieve goal of this accomplishment
Held off Holy
Came back after being defeated and was defeated again.
KUJA
Motives- Kuja was born a Genome, a specially-designed creature named for a seed used to create them. He was defective, however, and was planned to be disposed of after he had served his purpose of being a placeholder Angel of Death.
Garland: His ambition was unbecoming of a Genome, but it was perfect for the mission I gave him. To bring war and chaos to Gaia...
And so, Kuja’s desires and lust born from his own ideas and egoism were not in accordance with the mission Genomes should hold dear. However, this destructive nature was perfect for Garland.
That was Kuja’s initial motivations, showing he was a natural-born tool of destruction but had ideas of using that destructive might for his own ends. His plan to achieve the power he longed for was thus.
Kuja: You two just don't get it! I need an eidolon more powerful than Alexander! An eidolon with the power to bury Garland! His powers are so incredible; I cannot even come close. I must destroy him before Terra's plan is activated, or my soul will no longer be my own! Who cares if she lives? I want that eidolon!
His goal was to gain the most powerful summon, a summon which could destroy Garland which would both destroy his most powerful and hated nemesis as well as removing the chance his soul would be taken from him. He first used the benevolent Queen of Alexandria, Queen Brahne, to summon Bahamut. Taking control fo Bahamut, he destroyed Queen Brahne and her entire fleet. He then attacked Alexandria with the out-of-control Bahamut but it was destroyed by THE most powerful eidolon, Alexander. When Kuja attempted to seize Alexander however, he was thwarted by Garland. When the new attempt at taking an eidolon from Eiko failed, he concocted a new scheme after witnessing her moogle going into Trance.
Kuja: So...an eruption of anger against one's surroundings induces a complete Trance! It's not the will to live, nor is it the desire to protect another!
Kuja: That means...I simply need a powerful soul, even if that soul is not my own! No, wait... And it can be found there!
Time goes by and the party reaches Terra. Kuja expresses very well how stupid they all are.
Kuja: I must say... I truly love you all. You not only broke the seal to Terra, but did me the favor of defeating Garland!
He then fights the party and they help him even more! They help him go into Trance.
Kuja: It's Trance! You know how it works. But a normal Trance won't be enough to defeat you... You're all as resilient as oglops. Even tiny
moogles possess the power of Trance... When I saw that in Gulug Volcano, I came up with a plan. It was easy. I just needed to borrow the power
from wretched souls that can't die... Where did I acquire it? It was the Invincible, or should I say, that large eyeball in the sky?
So, his plan shifted a good portion through the game and his own brilliance and cunning led to this new plan being a complete success. Well, almost...
Kuja: A mortal...? ...I'm finished? I don't believe you! Why would I believe such a silly story! You're telling me that I'll die soon, now that I'm more powerful than anyone? I'm gonna...die!? Lose my soul...?
Kuja: ...I won't let it happen. I won't... I won't let this world exist without me!
Kuja, who had lived for power, finally had the unrivaled might he sought. However, his life was at an end. He summed it up pretty bluntly later on in the Crystal World
Kuja: Why should the world exist without me? That wouldn't be fair. If I die, we all die!
To an egocentric narcissist, the world should end if they die. If their time has come, then all others have absolutely no right to live.
He then engages in a battle with the party. You could say he was beaten but he then unleashed Ultima which, depending on your own speculation, may have killed the entire party.It’s not known how they got before Necron in such a place resembling a spiritual door or afterlife as well as members of the party having to give their power to the others so they may battle.
Power- Kuja’s power is truly immense. A mage of immense proportions, he was able to create the entire Black Mage race and the Mistodons to be used against his opponents. His power was so great, he let himself be openly targeted and hit by a straight blast from Bahamut and merely laughed at it. He then survived a blast from the Invincible, the most powerful weapon in Final Fantasy IX, and survived. His main noticeable power is his incredible intellect which allowed him to manipulate a continental war that cost thousands of deaths by using a kind queen. Not mind control but actual manipulation which is a bit more difficult as you must use your brain to make the person act in accordance with your objective. This power also allowed him also to conceive of the plan of using the Invincible to achieve his full power. He thus became a demi-god, a being nearly more powerful than any other in an RPG short of Id and Lavos.
Appearance- Kuja’s appearance is said to be “feminine.” Not only is his face not feminine in the least but nice hips and a thong makes him a great villain. Why, you may ask. Well, do you see the guy in the thong with make-up as the ultimate villain who brings about mass death and chaos? No? Well then, that works perfectly. Besides, a lot of guys wear thongs. It’s nothing that special. Any number of characters may wear thongs under their pants but you can’t see it. Kuja is in love with his own idea of his superiority which would translate into his gladly displaying his body. A narcissist is in love with his appearance.
Accomplishments-
Used Queen Brahne to devastate Burmecia, killing dozens there. Used Brahne to destroy Cleyra, killing everyone there. Used Brahne to attack Lindblum and kill many there.
Created the Black Mages, a race born for warfare and death.
Anticipated and used Queen Brahne one final time to summon Bahamut. Then corrupted Bahamut and destroyed Brahne and her fleet.
Formulated quickly and then put into action his Trance Plan which gave him more power than any other being on the planet.
Created the Chaos Guardians, Memoria and Deathguise.
conclusion
Kuja beats Sephiroth in motivation, appearance, power and accomplishments.
SEPHIROTH
Motives- The key to any true good villain is their motivation. Why are they evil? Sephiroth was a noble soldier and war hero, admired by young men. One day, he goes on a mission and reads some books in a secret government laboratory.
Sephiroth: (reading a book) …an organism that was apparently dead, was found in 2000 year old geological stratum. Professor Gast named that organism, Jenova… Year, X Month, X Day. Jenova confirmed to be an Ancient …X Year, X Month, X
Day. Jenova Project approved. The use of Mako Reactor I approved for use… My other's name is Jenova… Jenova Project… Is this just a coincidence? Professor Ga st… Why didn't you tell me anything? …Why did you die?
Short time later...
Sephiroth: Don't you get it? An Ancient named Jenova was found in the geological stratum of 2000 years ago. The Jenova Project. The Jenova Project
wanted to produce people with the powers of the Ancients……no, the Cetra! …I am the one that was produced.
From the lies told him and his own bizarre logic, Sephiroth deduced he was “created” and a test-tube baby. This conveniently severed any ties he had with humanity which he seems to have also fabricated a story for.
Sephiroth: Long ago, disaster struck this planet. Your ancestors escaped… They survived because they hid. The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After that, your ancestors continued to increase. Now all that's left of the Cetra is in these reports.
So, Sephiroth’s motives are a righteous hate for humanity. To avenge his “ancestors” and mother, he must kill and “take back” the Planet from humans. He then proceeds to perform his infamous rampage in Nibelheim.
But, isn’t this knowledge invalid? He wasn’t created. He wasn’t a Cetra. The “mother” of his was the real thing that wiped out the Cetra. This is fact. Yet, Sephiroth...
Sephiroth: ...Ah, but I have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.
That is Sephiroth at the Temple of the Ancients. Examine these quotes well. He has gained the knowledge of the Ancients which would include his righteous hate for humanity being non-existent. Thus, his motivation and reasons for going evil are moot.
Power- Now, Sephiroth’s power..what is it? He went into the Lifestream and is now at Northern Crater. He’s stuck there, trapped in materia. His power (never even explained) was the ability to control Jenova’s body and the other Sephiroth clones. In this way, Aeris and the workers at Shinra HQ were killed. Sephiroth himself does absolutely nothing throughout the game except stay stuck in the Crater. His main goal and use of power to attain his goal was Meteor. However, Meteor can be used by anyone.
Aerith: Nope, we can't use it right now. You need great spiritual power to use it.
Cloud: You mean lots of Spiritual energy?
Aerith: That's right. One person's power alone won't do it. Somewhere special. Where there's plenty of the Planet's energy... Oh yeah! The Promised Land!
So, even the “great Sephiroth” to use the terminology of the Sephiroth clones and fans (who have a remarkable likeness in the extent of their brainpower) was incapable of wielding such magic. No one could unless they were at a place of immense power that gave them a big power boost. So, there goes Sephiroth’s amazing power right down the drain.
But, I suppose I should examine Advent Children. He then keeps his consciousness from being assimilated into the Lifestream thanks more to the Jenova cells he was born with than anything else and the three Silver-Haired Men are born. In the end, Kadaj gains Jenova’s head and here is Sephiroth again. His goal now - to traverse the stars using the Jenova cells to contaminate and control the Planet. Again, not his power. Jenova’s. He’s piggybacking on it.
Appearance- Now we al know we are shallow and how a character looks can sway our opinion. Sephiroth is very stereotypical for a villain. Dressed all in black, rather tall and armed with a massive blade, he represents what most villains should look like and what you expect them to look like.
Accomplishments-
Burned down and kill some people in Nibelheim
Used Jenova’s body to kill people in Shinra HQ.
Killed Aeris
Summoned Meteor - failed to achieve goal of this accomplishment
Held off Holy
Came back after being defeated and was defeated again.
KUJA
Motives- Kuja was born a Genome, a specially-designed creature named for a seed used to create them. He was defective, however, and was planned to be disposed of after he had served his purpose of being a placeholder Angel of Death.
Garland: His ambition was unbecoming of a Genome, but it was perfect for the mission I gave him. To bring war and chaos to Gaia...
And so, Kuja’s desires and lust born from his own ideas and egoism were not in accordance with the mission Genomes should hold dear. However, this destructive nature was perfect for Garland.
That was Kuja’s initial motivations, showing he was a natural-born tool of destruction but had ideas of using that destructive might for his own ends. His plan to achieve the power he longed for was thus.
Kuja: You two just don't get it! I need an eidolon more powerful than Alexander! An eidolon with the power to bury Garland! His powers are so incredible; I cannot even come close. I must destroy him before Terra's plan is activated, or my soul will no longer be my own! Who cares if she lives? I want that eidolon!
His goal was to gain the most powerful summon, a summon which could destroy Garland which would both destroy his most powerful and hated nemesis as well as removing the chance his soul would be taken from him. He first used the benevolent Queen of Alexandria, Queen Brahne, to summon Bahamut. Taking control fo Bahamut, he destroyed Queen Brahne and her entire fleet. He then attacked Alexandria with the out-of-control Bahamut but it was destroyed by THE most powerful eidolon, Alexander. When Kuja attempted to seize Alexander however, he was thwarted by Garland. When the new attempt at taking an eidolon from Eiko failed, he concocted a new scheme after witnessing her moogle going into Trance.
Kuja: So...an eruption of anger against one's surroundings induces a complete Trance! It's not the will to live, nor is it the desire to protect another!
Kuja: That means...I simply need a powerful soul, even if that soul is not my own! No, wait... And it can be found there!
Time goes by and the party reaches Terra. Kuja expresses very well how stupid they all are.
Kuja: I must say... I truly love you all. You not only broke the seal to Terra, but did me the favor of defeating Garland!
He then fights the party and they help him even more! They help him go into Trance.
Kuja: It's Trance! You know how it works. But a normal Trance won't be enough to defeat you... You're all as resilient as oglops. Even tiny
moogles possess the power of Trance... When I saw that in Gulug Volcano, I came up with a plan. It was easy. I just needed to borrow the power
from wretched souls that can't die... Where did I acquire it? It was the Invincible, or should I say, that large eyeball in the sky?
So, his plan shifted a good portion through the game and his own brilliance and cunning led to this new plan being a complete success. Well, almost...
Kuja: A mortal...? ...I'm finished? I don't believe you! Why would I believe such a silly story! You're telling me that I'll die soon, now that I'm more powerful than anyone? I'm gonna...die!? Lose my soul...?
Kuja: ...I won't let it happen. I won't... I won't let this world exist without me!
Kuja, who had lived for power, finally had the unrivaled might he sought. However, his life was at an end. He summed it up pretty bluntly later on in the Crystal World
Kuja: Why should the world exist without me? That wouldn't be fair. If I die, we all die!
To an egocentric narcissist, the world should end if they die. If their time has come, then all others have absolutely no right to live.
He then engages in a battle with the party. You could say he was beaten but he then unleashed Ultima which, depending on your own speculation, may have killed the entire party.It’s not known how they got before Necron in such a place resembling a spiritual door or afterlife as well as members of the party having to give their power to the others so they may battle.
Power- Kuja’s power is truly immense. A mage of immense proportions, he was able to create the entire Black Mage race and the Mistodons to be used against his opponents. His power was so great, he let himself be openly targeted and hit by a straight blast from Bahamut and merely laughed at it. He then survived a blast from the Invincible, the most powerful weapon in Final Fantasy IX, and survived. His main noticeable power is his incredible intellect which allowed him to manipulate a continental war that cost thousands of deaths by using a kind queen. Not mind control but actual manipulation which is a bit more difficult as you must use your brain to make the person act in accordance with your objective. This power also allowed him also to conceive of the plan of using the Invincible to achieve his full power. He thus became a demi-god, a being nearly more powerful than any other in an RPG short of Id and Lavos.
Appearance- Kuja’s appearance is said to be “feminine.” Not only is his face not feminine in the least but nice hips and a thong makes him a great villain. Why, you may ask. Well, do you see the guy in the thong with make-up as the ultimate villain who brings about mass death and chaos? No? Well then, that works perfectly. Besides, a lot of guys wear thongs. It’s nothing that special. Any number of characters may wear thongs under their pants but you can’t see it. Kuja is in love with his own idea of his superiority which would translate into his gladly displaying his body. A narcissist is in love with his appearance.
Accomplishments-
Used Queen Brahne to devastate Burmecia, killing dozens there. Used Brahne to destroy Cleyra, killing everyone there. Used Brahne to attack Lindblum and kill many there.
Created the Black Mages, a race born for warfare and death.
Anticipated and used Queen Brahne one final time to summon Bahamut. Then corrupted Bahamut and destroyed Brahne and her fleet.
Formulated quickly and then put into action his Trance Plan which gave him more power than any other being on the planet.
Created the Chaos Guardians, Memoria and Deathguise.
conclusion
Kuja beats Sephiroth in motivation, appearance, power and accomplishments.