is Sephiroth the best bad guy in the series?

[chrisfffan]

i think Sephiroth is the best bad guy in the Final Fantasy series everything thing about him the way he looks the way he talks and the way he fights who eles agrees?

[YTDN]

That's your opinion. In my opinion, Sephiroth is the one of the worst FF villains. He's, well, a mamas boy. I personally think Kuja is the best villain.

[Raebus]

I personally think Kuja is the best villain.

Seconded.

[Kefka_Almighty]

Sephiroth wasn't necessarily a bad villain, but to me, he was nowhere near being the best villain in the series.

As for my favorite........gee, I dunno. I guess I don't have a favorite villain. :D

[aerithsloveslave]

I would have to vote for Kefka. He was truly psychotic and didn't go crying on about his mommy or dressing up as a harlot.

[~SapphireStar~]

I personally think Kuja is the best villain.

[Anniexo]

I think he's an okay baddi but that's about it

(does any one know where i can download one-winged angel?)

[aerithsloveslave]

(does any one know where i can download one-winged angel?)


here (http://www.vgmusic.com/)

[Anniexo]

cool thanks

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

i think seifer and jecht were good enemies

i guess i think its good if theres a link with the protagonist

[Ryushikaze]

Pfffftt... Garland's the best villian. He WILL knock you all down.

[NyQuil]

Since the only games I have played from start to finish are VII and VIII I would have to vote for Sephiroth. Seifer looks like an emo kid compared to him.

[~SapphireStar~]

Siefer isnt the main FF8 villian though. Of course he doesnt compare to Sephy. Plus I'd say Sephy is more emo. The black outfit screams emo kid at me.

[My name is...something..?]

Pfffftt... Garland's the best villian. He WILL knock you all down.

Spoken for truth.:)

[LunarWeaver]

Oh no this thread is gonna end about as well as a "Aeris is better than Tifa" thread :shifty:

I personally like Sephiroth a lot :jess: I just like him... He functions the same as every other villain, so I don't see what's wrong with him. But I also played VII back before there was hype about VII.

[chrisfffan]

no its not! im surprised nobody has agreed with me I think he’s the worst because what he done to Aeris
I cant think of any other character brutally killing someone like that in the series but hes one of my favourite characters.

[LunarWeaver]

no its not! im surprised nobody has agreed with me I think he’s the worst because what he done to Aeris
I cant think of any other character brutally killing someone like that in the series but hes one of my favourite characters.

I think Kefka brutally killed more people than Sephy, what with destroying the world and such.

[Shadow Masamune]

So Sephiroth was truly a kick ass character. Deep, Dark, Deceptive, Angry, he had all the picture perfect traits of a villian.

Kefka...PLEASE, I have said this many times, he is the most retarded villian ever, when he is taking over the world all I could do was laugh and ask how such a moron took over the world.

Kuja, Valid argument, however, I have yet to finish FF IX.

Seifer, He can't be, he was a puppet of Ultimecia.

Now Ultimecia, thats a villian that took many forms throughout space and time. Because she wanted to take over the world, in ALL time periods, she is a candidate for a good villian, but not the best.

I think its between Kuja and Sephiroth

[RiseToFall]

http://media.g4tv.com/images/imagedb2/321/32187_L.jpg
Kefka-craziest FF villian ever, thats why I love him.

[Decessus]

Sephiroth is a mama's boy.


Kefka...PLEASE, I have said this many times, he is the most retarded villian ever, when he is taking over the world all I could do was laugh and ask how such a moron took over the world.

Come now, Sephiroth had the ability to summon a super nova that could wipe out the universe in 3 minutes, yet he settled on a big rock that would hit in 7 days.
Besides, you don't even need to go and defeat him to 'save the world'. It only hits if you go to him. Why bother?

[The Crystal]

Sephiroth is a good villain, but in my opinion, not the best.
He have the looks, the music, cool powers, and the mystic(he was misteryous) going for him.
But he was not the best one, because he don't have everything that make a villain be a good villain.
He don't have almost any personality(he is evil, arrogant, and that's all), don't have ANY reason to do what he did(after gaining the knowledge of the Lifestream, he knew that he was not a Cetra. But he want to become a God anyway, just because he want more power), and don't have any cool, memorable quotes.
I think that his look, the music, the mistery, and the fear that everyone feel for him in the game, create an atmosphere around him, that make him cool. And this is why me and many other people like him. But if you remove all of this, and only look to the character itself, you will see that he is not that great.
Ah, and he have the nostalgic feeling going for him too(he was the first RPG villain for MANY people).

This is my opinion.

[Slicksword45]

Kuja was the best. He distroyed a whole world with one spell. yay!

Plus, He has reasons behind everything he did and kills more people then seph.

Seph killed: 1 Backwater village worth (And some pain in the butt little girl)

Kuja killed: 1 city and a whole world :)

yay kuja :)

[Dragon Mage]

Just what is so friggn' cool about the man? He isn't, ok? Just deal with it.

1) He never fought the chars directly until the very end. Before that he always made Jenova fight you. What kind of man sicks his mother on his enemys?

2)He's insane. We all know this, so lets not pussy-foot around it. He's cunningly insane, yes, but the point is he's not mentally stable. And you can't take an insane man seriously.:nonono:

3)Yeah, sword was nice. But that's the extent of his coolness. He's just another long-haired pretty boy. It seems to me that saving the world means finding the right long-haired pretty boy and beating him up. I mean, what kind of 'cool' man walks around with waist-length hair? Certainly not a secure one.

4)He has major ego problems. He runs around with a shiny sharp piece of metal, clinging to mommy and out to destroy the world. He must be so depressed that he feels he has to destroy the world as well as him self in his suicide attempt.

5)Becoming a god thing is nothing new. (if you've ever read Dragonlance, you know what I'm talking about.)
(:hourglas: this ring a bell?)

And this is the man that people claim is so cool? Crap, I must be missing something, because he sure doesn't seem that awesome to me. He made gave the bad guy image a twist, sure. But he doesn't deserve even an eighth of the credit that people give him. Sheesh.

(and for crying out loud, somebody oppose me.)

[Zeromus_X]

He was pretty neat. He was an okay villain.

Gotta love that sword...:cat:


1) He never fought the chars directly until the very end. Before that he always made Jenova fight you. What kind of man sicks his mother on his enemys?

2)He's insane. We all know this, so lets not pussy-foot around it. He's cunningly insane, yes, but the point is he's not mentally stable. And you can't take an insane man seriously.

3)Yeah, sword was nice. But that's the extent of his coolness. He's just another long-haired pretty boy. It seems to me that saving the world means finding the right long-haired pretty boy and beating him up. I mean, what kind of 'cool' man walks around with waist-length hair? Certainly not a secure one.

4)He has major ego problems. He runs around with a shiny sharp piece of metal, clinging to mommy and out to destroy the world. He must be so depressed that he feels he has to destroy the world as well as him self in his suicide attempt.

5)Becoming a god thing is nothing new. (if you've ever read Dragonlance, you know what I'm talking about.)
( this ring a bell?)

This is just as bad as the people who like him too much, you know.

[Dragon Mage]

I'm just getting REALLY tired of people going on about how awesome he is. I made that post to try to get people to shut up about how much they like him before they even got the chance to say it. Because this thread isn't about that and doesn't need that.

[LunarWeaver]

Here's what I find tiring: Everybody parading their opinion around like a law. He likes Sephy and wants to say so, he has the right to that just like you have the right to say you don't. There's no reason to look at each other and say "Nobody cares! Keep it to yourself." It's a forum for discussion about Final Fantasy, and you are in the Final Fantasy VII section of the forum in a topic dedicated to liking Sephiroth. What did you expect? "IX is great"?

This is exactly why half the members here don't even bother coming into the lower half of the forum anymore. It's just full of people arguing and saying "This FF is the best, this character is the best, this song is the best, and everybody who thinks otherwise is ignorant of all things and should burn to death." Nobody wants to put up with it.

And that goes for anti-people and pro-people. You like Sephiroth, and that's fine, but he isn't your husband and you don't have to show loyalty to him and hate everything else. Sephy won't feel cheated on if you also like the other villains for what they are.

If you like Kuja, that's fine. But it's the same. Why the obligated loyalty? Do you think Kuja will be pissed if you don't compare other villains to him and find them inferior by default? The characters and villains are different because that makes it interesting. Kefka isn't supposed to be Sephiroth, Sephiroth isn't supposed to be Kuja, and Kuja isn't supposed to be Seymour. I'm not saying you can't have a favorite; it's natural to have a favorite. I'm saying don't pick a favorite and feel obligated to bash all the others.

Just relax...They're games... They are meant to be enjoyed, not studied and picked apart and viewed with a Roger Ebert eye of criticism.

Sephiroth is fine as a villain. So is Edea or Seifer, so is Kuja, so is Seymour... Pick your favorite, but why hate the others?

And the same goes for the flip side. Sure, pick your favorite, but don't pretend like he's the best thing since pickles either. "SEPHY > ALL" is just as annoying as "SEPHY IS EMO and suxx LolLolololol". If you like Sephiroth as a villain that's fine but don't hate Kuja because he's "not Sephiroth" for crying out loud.

In short, let's all just get along :jess: It's Final Fantasy not politics. People who justify their opinions by bashing others look just as ridiculous as people who are so wrapped up in fanboy they refuse to hear other's opinions at all. It's all ridiculous. Now look at the kitty and feel at peace and play the games, don't study them. :cat: Aww, kitty makes it all better.

[RiseToFall]

Here's what I find tiring: Everybody parading their opinion around like a law. He likes Sephy and wants to say so, he has the right to that just like you have the right to say you don't. There's no reason to look at each other and say "Nobody cares! Keep it to yourself." It's a forum for discussion about Final Fantasy, and you are in the Final Fantasy VII section of the forum in a topic dedicated to liking Sephiroth. What did you expect? "IX is great"?

This is exactly why half the members here don't even bother coming into the lower half of the forum anymore. It's just full of people arguing and saying "This FF is the best, this character is the best, this song is the best, and everybody who thinks otherwise is ignorant of all things and should burn to death." Nobody wants to put up with it.

And that goes for anti-people and pro-people. You like Sephiroth, and that's fine, but he isn't your husband and you don't have to show loyalty to him and hate everything else. Sephy won't feel cheated on if you also like the other villains for what they are.

If you like Kuja, that's fine. But it's the same. Why the obligated loyalty? Do you think Kuja will be pissed if you don't compare other villains to him and find them inferior by default? The characters and villains are different because that makes it interesting. Kefka isn't supposed to be Sephiroth, Sephiroth isn't supposed to be Kuja, and Kuja isn't supposed to be Seymour. I'm not saying you can't have a favorite; it's natural to have a favorite. I'm saying don't pick a favorite and feel obligated to bash all the others.

Just relax...They're games... They are meant to be enjoyed, not studied and picked apart and viewed with a Roger Ebert eye of criticism.

Sephiroth is fine as a villain. So is Edea or Seifer, so is Kuja, so is Seymour... Pick your favorite, but why hate the others?

And the same goes for the flip side. Sure, pick your favorite, but don't pretend like he's the best thing since pickles either. "SEPHY > ALL" is just as annoying as "SEPHY IS EMO and suxx LolLolololol". If you like Sephiroth as a villain that's fine but don't hate Kuja because he's "not Sephiroth" for crying out loud.

In short, let's all just get along :jess: It's Final Fantasy not politics. People who justify their opinions by bashing others look just as ridiculous as people who are so wrapped up in fanboy they refuse to hear other's opinions at all. It's all ridiculous. Now look at the kitty and feel at peace and play the games, don't study them. :cat: Aww, kitty makes it all better.

:beer: well said Lunar.

[boys from the dwarf]

I personally think Kuja is the best villain.

Seconded.

thirdified.

sephiroth is a good villain but its all about his backstory and past and he really doesn't do much or have personalities and schemes that make him better than the other villains. a great villain but not the best.

[The Crystal]

Sephiroth is a good character but its all about his backstory and past, and when he become a villain, he really doesn't do much or have personalities and schemes that make him better than the other villains. A great character but not the best villain.

Fixed for you.

And LunarWeaver, very well said.

[Dragon Mage]

Very nice LunarWeaver.

[Bolivar]

IMO he's one of the best.

He did more evil things than almost any other villain I can think of. Torching a village, wiping out the Shinra building, and leaving the President dead on his chair was crazy. And then he killed Aeris. Sure, X-Death did this before him, but he actually jumped down and impaled her.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

We have come to terms.

[aquatius]

I much prefered Kuja to Sephiroth.

[G3ORGE]

Sephiroth had one of the best battle music things ive ever heard and at least he didnt look like a clown and yes he is stupid using a meteor that takes a few days to drop when he has a spell that destroys a whole universe (apart from him somehow) and him normaly with his sword looks cool but the final form of him with the 1 wing looks a bit odd and hes a b*tch to defeat but to me hes my fave coz he was the 1st baddie in an FF game coz VII was my 1st.

[Christmas]

:oscar:LET'S US ANALYSIS SEPHIROTH AND KUJA TOGETHER. :oscar:

SEPHIROTH

Sephiroth is a very fillal son as shown:



Sephiroth found his Mama in a run down reactor a few years ago but However, Cloud and his buddies were jealous and killed his Mama.. :cry:

http://rpgoblivion.gamingsource.net/Animated%20gifs/FF%207/medium/sephiroth.gif: MAMA DIED!!!! WAAAAHHH!!!! MAMA!!! GIVE MY MAMA BACK TO ME!!!

http://rpgoblivion.gamingsource.net/Animated%20gifs/FF%207/diff%20chibi%202/shiva.gif: Dun cry, little Sephy.

http://rpgoblivion.gamingsource.net/Animated%20gifs/FF%207/medium/sephiroth.gif:Who the smurf are you, bitch?

http://rpgoblivion.gamingsource.net/Animated%20gifs/FF%207/diff%20chibi%202/shiva.gif:I am your fairy god mother, little Sephy and if you call me bitch again I swear I will rip your lungs out.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/Cloud1.jpg: SHUDDA BITCH!!! It's not over between him and me, and you are in the way!!!


*SLASH!!!!*


http://rpgoblivion.gamingsource.net/Animated%20gifs/FF%207/tall/shiva.gif:save::save::save::save::save:http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/Cloud2.jpg

http://rpgoblivion.gamingsource.net/Animated%20gifs/FF%207/diff%20chibi%202/shiva.gif:Remember...Sephy...you must alway...be..be..a good..boy...


*9999*

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/Sephy1.jpg: Your chocobo brother killed my Mama and you killed my fairy god mama???? NOW I HAVE NO MORE MAMA!!!!!!NOOO!!!!

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/Cloud3.jpg: And I am going to kill you too!!!!


*I HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!*


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/Sephy2.jpg:save::save::save::save::save::save:


*DIIIIEEEE SEPHIROTH!!!!!!AND I HATTTTTEEEEEE YOUU TOOO!!*


:save::save::save::save::save::save:http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/Cloud4.jpg

Now we can see how terrible life had treated Sephiroth but he overcome all the odds!!! :mad2:

http://rpgoblivion.gamingsource.net/Animated%20gifs/FF%207/char%20renders/sephiroth.gif: MAMA.....I want MAMA....

http://rpgoblivion.gamingsource.net/Animated%20gifs/FF%207/char%20renders/cloud%203.gif:Ughhh.....Puff..Puff...Forget it Mama's Boy. All your MAMA IS DEAD!!! AND IF SOMEMORE APPEAR, I WILL KILL THEM ALL!!!! I WILL KILL EVERY SINGLE MAMA OF YOURS!!!!!



*SEPHIROTH GATHER ENERGIES!!!!*

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/Sephy3.jpg: You are sick!!!!!

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/Cloud5.jpg: I just live in the ASYLUM that's all!!! I am not sick!!!!


*SEPHIROTH GATHER EVEN MORE ENERGIES!!!!*

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/Sephy4.jpg: GIVE MY MAMAS BACK TO ME!!! YOU SICKO!!!


*SEPHIROTH UNLEASHES HIS ENERGIES!!!!*




WHAT THE SMURF??http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/Cloud6.jpghttp://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/fireball.jpg:save::save::save::save::save:http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/savepoint.gif:save::save::save::save::save:http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/savepoint.gif:save::save::save::save::save:http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/savepoint.gif:save::save::save::save::save:http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/sephy5.jpg


*FOR MY MAMAS!!!!!*


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/cloud7.jpghttp://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/explosion.jpg:save::save::save::save::save:http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/savepoint.gif:save::save::save::save::save:http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/savepoint.gif:save::save::save::save::save::save:http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/savepoint.gif:save::save::save::save:http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/Sephy6.jpg


*65535*

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/Cloud8.jpg:...........

http://rpgoblivion.gamingsource.net/Animated%20gifs/FF%207/tiny/sephiroth%202.gif: Stay there for me, forever trapped in memories....

In short, Sephiroth is teh 1337 teh haxxor. :bigsmile:

[Araciel]

good villain? yes...best villain?

GARLAND forever

[jammi567]

Please don't bash me, because it's only my first time through, and i'm only near the beginning of disk two, but Sephiroth is soooooo boring. he never battles you, he tells you his plans, and he sends his mom to do his dirty work. what kind of person does that? i much prefer Garland, where theirs some sort of mystery to him, even at the end of the game.

[Carl the Llama]

Just what is so friggn' cool about the man? He isn't, ok? Just deal with it.

1) He never fought the chars directly until the very end. Before that he always made Jenova fight you. What kind of man sticks his mother on his enemys?
erm.... no, he didnt, he was in the northern crater the whole time in that place where Cloud goes to when he gives him the Black Materia, the person you saw all those times was Jenova...



2)He's insane. We all know this, so lets not pussy-foot around it. He's cunningly insane, yes, but the point is he's not mentally stable. And you can't take an insane man seriously.:nonono:
name on antagonist that isnt insane...



3)Yeah, sword was nice. But that's the extent of his coolness. He's just another long-haired pretty boy. It seems to me that saving the world means finding the right long-haired pretty boy and beating him up. I mean, what kind of 'cool' man walks around with waist-length hair? Certainly not a secure one.
sorry I may have misinterprated this but are you saying that people that have long hair cant be cool? dont forget that they most likely designed him to be like a goth and admitidly most goths have long hair... I dont have any problem with his image.



4)He has major ego problems. He runs around with a shiny sharp piece of metal, clinging to mommy and out to destroy the world. He must be so depressed that he feels he has to destroy the world as well as him self in his suicide attempt.
He never 'clinged' to his 'mummy' his plan was to become a god by bringing in a Meteor which would threaten the life of the planet and when the planets life is threatened the lifestream wells up at that wound, and in order to do that he needed Jenova's help. With Jenova he had the ability to exert some control over those who have Jenova cell's inside them (like for instance when Cloud hands over the Black Materia to Jenova at the Temple.) And TBH I think its better to kill people with the skill of a sword then just to blast the away with magic/summons/statues in the game he was a living legend, like Cloud said: Sephiroth's strength is unreal. He is far stronger in reality then any story you might have heard about him.



5)Becoming a god thing is nothing new. (if you've ever read Dragonlance, you know what I'm talking about.)
(:hourglas: this ring a bell?)
Not that I want to be picky but dont you mean Dragonlance Legends



And this is the man that people claim is so cool? Crap, I must be missing something, because he sure doesn't seem that awesome to me. He made gave the bad guy image a twist, sure. But he doesn't deserve even an eighth of the credit that people give him. Sheesh.
I personally think people give him credit because he actully killed a main character, again I may be wrong but thats just my personal opinion



(and for crying out loud, somebody oppose me.)
You got it :D

[Bolivar]

Sephiroth had one of the best battle music things ive ever heard and at least he didnt look like a clown and yes he is stupid using a meteor that takes a few days to drop when he has a spell that destroys a whole universe (apart from him somehow) and him normaly with his sword looks cool but the final form of him with the 1 wing looks a bit odd and hes a b*tch to defeat but to me hes my fave coz he was the 1st baddie in an FF game coz VII was my 1st.

Sephiroth's plan wasn't to destroy the world.

It was to have an impending threat so harsh that the planet's energy would gather at one point, where he would be waiting.

Which, as he said, did happen. Except it was at Midgar, not the northern crater.

[G3ORGE]

Sephiroth had one of the best battle music things ive ever heard and at least he didnt look like a clown and yes he is stupid using a meteor that takes a few days to drop when he has a spell that destroys a whole universe (apart from him somehow) and him normaly with his sword looks cool but the final form of him with the 1 wing looks a bit odd and hes a b*tch to defeat but to me hes my fave coz he was the 1st baddie in an FF game coz VII was my 1st.

Sephiroth's plan wasn't to destroy the world.

It was to have an impending threat so harsh that the planet's energy would gather at one point, where he would be waiting.

Which, as he said, did happen. Except it was at Midgar, not the northern crater.
But when he takes all the energy the planet dies Buenhagen said lol pretty funny he missed tho lol.

[cloud21zidane16]

Please don't bash me, because it's only my first time through, and i'm only near the beginning of disk two, but Sephiroth is soooooo boring. he never battles you, he tells you his plans, and he sends his mom to do his dirty work. what kind of person does that? i much prefer Garland, where theirs some sort of mystery to him, even at the end of the game.

he cant really battle you anyway because he isnt actually around till after the whirlwind maze and after that i think it makes it better to wait until the final showdown:fencing:

[The Crystal]

Please don't bash me, because it's only my first time through, and i'm only near the beginning of disk two, but Sephiroth is soooooo boring. he never battles you, he tells you his plans, and he sends his mom to do his dirty work. what kind of person does that? i much prefer Garland, where theirs some sort of mystery to him, even at the end of the game.

he cant really battle you anyway because he isnt actually around till after the whirlwind maze and after that i think it makes it better to wait until the final showdown:fencing:

Yeah, but you have to admit that this was a little disapointing. I mean, everything that you hear about Sephiroth in the begin of the game, is about his power and strenght. Everyone say how powerfull and invincible he was. And then, when you finally meet him, the guy run away during half of the game?! And in the second half he is hiding behind a barrier?!
Okay, he has good motives to do this, but i think that Square could have made something in the story, to show a little more of Sephiroth's power.

[sephirothishere]

sephiroth pwns.............jus sayin....its true....

[Malboro_Menace]

Even though I've never played FF7 I do have a general knowledge of the story and I've seen AC.

He's alright as a villian.

[cloud21zidane16]

Please don't bash me, because it's only my first time through, and i'm only near the beginning of disk two, but Sephiroth is soooooo boring. he never battles you, he tells you his plans, and he sends his mom to do his dirty work. what kind of person does that? i much prefer Garland, where theirs some sort of mystery to him, even at the end of the game.

he cant really battle you anyway because he isnt actually around till after the whirlwind maze and after that i think it makes it better to wait until the final showdown:fencing:

Yeah, but you have to admit that this was a little disapointing. I mean, everything that you hear about Sephiroth in the begin of the game, is about his power and strenght. Everyone say how powerfull and invincible he was. And then, when you finally meet him, the guy run away during half of the game?! And in the second half he is hiding behind a barrier?!
Okay, he has good motives to do this, but i think that Square could have made something in the story, to show a little more of Sephiroth's power.

he wasnt running away he was heading to his ultimate goal, your team just happened to be chasing him and second if you had the whole world against you and you could eve fight them or sit and relax behind a safe barrier what would you choose:)
but yes i do agree that we couldve of seen more of him, i think the game focused far too much on his past than what his actually like when youre chasing him around the world

[chrisfffan]

I think Sephiroth is the best villain because of the way he wasn’t to begin with, he was a great soldier who people respected and looked up to and he was so sure of himself but when he found out the truth about what doctor Odin had done it destroyed him he turned to the dark side when he burned down Clouds hometown. But in some ways you can understand him, not him burning down the town but the way he turned and became a villain that’s why I think he’s the best bad guy.

[G3ORGE]

I think Sephiroth is the best villain because of the way he wasn’t to begin with, he was a great soldier who people respected and looked up to and he was so sure of himself but when he found out the truth about what doctor Odin had done it destroyed him he turned to the dark side when he burned down Clouds hometown. But in some ways you can understand him, not him burning down the town but the way he turned and became a villain that’s why I think he’s the best bad guy.
Dr.Odin? I thought it was hojo?

[Diddy21]

even i dont think sephy was the best! hes a cool character and everything.......i like him, but not as being the best villian

[chrisfffan]

What do u think the game would of been like without Sephiroth? i dont think FF7 would work without him. Your right it was HOJO i got him mixed up with doctor Odin out of Final Fantasy 8 hes another mad scientist!

[Goldenboko]

http://drumlinheights.ednet.ns.ca/cmt12/sarahc/kuja.gif
He is the only FF to sucessfully destroy a world!

Also he's got the best freaking rants!

[chrisfffan]

he looks like a girl

[Goldenboko]

Yeah so? You got a point there? He had great rants, his Trance was awesome, and I destroyed a planet, and killed the ENTIRE party!

[Dell]

I think Sephiroth is the best villain because of the way he wasn’t to begin with, he was a great soldier who people respected and looked up to and he was so sure of himself but when he found out the truth about what doctor Odin had done it destroyed him he turned to the dark side when he burned down Clouds hometown. But in some ways you can understand him, not him burning down the town but the way he turned and became a villain that’s why I think he’s the best bad guy.

The best baddies is still Kuja or Kefka.

[Dragon Mage]

erm.... no, he didnt, he was in the northern crater the whole time in that place where Cloud goes to when he gives him the Black Materia, the person you saw all those times was Jenova...


That is exactly what I said. He made is mother fight you! Coolness? I think not.


name on antagonist that isnt insane...
Any movie/book/game(including FF7) with an evil scientist in it. They're actually very smart and twistedly evil. Not insane, because their ideas are works of geinus.


sorry I may have misinterprated this but are you saying that people that have long hair cant be cool? dont forget that they most likely designed him to be like a goth and admitidly most goths have long hair... I dont have any problem with his image.
No,no...that's just a steroytype. Long haired people can be cool; my own hair is 2 feet long! (remember, I'm a girl) And not all goths have long hair; just black hair. All of the goths at my school have black hair. Not really long. Spiked, mowhawk, or a bad fight with some scissors, the hair isn't long. I'm just saying that the pretty-boy bad guy's nearly always have long hair and I find that a guy with long, flowing hair does much to make them seem less badas*. (does he brush it everyday!? What shampoo does he use to get that wonderful shine?!) See what I mean?


He never 'clinged' to his 'mummy' his plan was to become a god by bringing in a Meteor which would threaten the life of the planet and when the planets life is threatened the lifestream wells up at that wound, and in order to do that he needed Jenova's help. With Jenova he had the ability to exert some control over those who have Jenova cell's inside them (like for instance when Cloud hands over the Black Materia to Jenova at the Temple.) And TBH I think its better to kill people with the skill of a sword then just to blast the away with magic/summons/statues in the game he was a living legend, like Cloud said: Sephiroth's strength is unreal. He is far stronger in reality then any story you might have heard about him.

Never clinged to his mommy? What the heck are you saying? He went off to destroy the world to give it back to his mother!!!
(Wait....destroy...to give back....You see this is where the insanity is coming in and really making things weird!!!)
A rock that big won't simply wound the planet, it'll kill every living thing on the earth. And by doing that, the planet itself. So it wasn't a very good plan now was it? An asteroid is about the size of a building-the Black Materia finds small drifting planets! If an asteroid wiped dinosuars on this earth, a small planet would, unfailingly, destroy the earth.


With Jenova he had the ability to exert some control over those who have Jenova cell's inside them (like for instance when Cloud hands over the Black Materia to Jenova at the Temple.)

Reliying on mommy again...Besides he killed all the other 'clones'. Not that he could really use them for anything; they were just about useless. And he could've just killed cloud and co. to get the materia; he didn't have to control cloud to hand it to him.


And TBH I think its better to kill people with the skill of a sword then just to blast the away with magic/summons/statues in the game he was a living legend, like Cloud said: Sephiroth's strength is unreal. He is far stronger in reality then any story you might have heard about him.

Now there's something I've noticed in all my long years of playing D&D. The wizards really kick as*. In one session, we stumbled upon about 25 ogres. My fighter was having a heck of a time with them. My brother, who has a wizard, flew into the air on the back of a summoned dragon and placed about 8 expanded, enlarged and empowered fireballs on the whole field where the ogres were and all of the fireballs overlapped at a point. The ogres were completley exterminated. One other time, we ran into 14 centaurs. One fireball fried them all, before I even got a chance to draw my sword!! That is pretty amazing. So just because someone has a sword and an evil plan, doesn't make them ulitimately badas* and powerful. Being a wizard/magic-user takes at least as much, if not, far more skill than a fighter/swordsman. Never underestimate the wizard. For that is true strength beyond all the boundries of reality.

And yes, I was talking about the Dragonlance Legends, but it's all Dragonlance nonetheless..

And thank you for opposing me!! Now it's starting to be fun!

[The Mad Dragons]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but for your brother Wizard, would he not have to spend atleast 1 round preparing the spells? A fighter with quick draw could easily interupt the spell if he successfully hit him. Sorry for going off topic.

[Dragon Mage]

No. You see the spells are prepared before time and only a little bit, the very end of an otherwise long and complicated spell, need to be said to activate the spell. Thus, with only a few words, a wizard can cast a spell 8 pages long. And if a fighter does manage to hit the wizard, the wizard has to make a concentration check, which failing is very small, since any good wizard invests a lot of ranks into concentration and takes the Combat Magic feat.

[Ryushikaze]

erm.... no, he didnt, he was in the northern crater the whole time in that place where Cloud goes to when he gives him the Black Materia, the person you saw all those times was Jenova...


That is exactly what I said. He made is mother fight you! Coolness? I think not.

That's not his mother. It's not even an entity separate from Sephiroth mentally. It's an extension of himself, sent to do his bidding while he gathered power.




name on antagonist that isnt insane...
Any movie/book/game(including FF7) with an evil scientist in it. They're actually very smart and twistedly evil. Not insane, because their ideas are works of geinus.

Genius and insanity are NOT mutually exclusive. Not to say that you are incorrent, but Hojo, for example, was bat/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif loco.



sorry I may have misinterprated this but are you saying that people that have long hair cant be cool? dont forget that they most likely designed him to be like a goth and admitidly most goths have long hair... I dont have any problem with his image.
No,no...that's just a steroytype. Long haired people can be cool; my own hair is 2 feet long! (remember, I'm a girl) And not all goths have long hair; just black hair. All of the goths at my school have black hair. Not really long. Spiked, mowhawk, or a bad fight with some scissors, the hair isn't long. I'm just saying that the pretty-boy bad guy's nearly always have long hair and I find that a guy with long, flowing hair does much to make them seem less badas*. (does he brush it everyday!? What shampoo does he use to get that wonderful shine?!) See what I mean?

The man can kill you without mussing his do. That's decently badass.



He never 'clinged' to his 'mummy' his plan was to become a god by bringing in a Meteor which would threaten the life of the planet and when the planets life is threatened the lifestream wells up at that wound, and in order to do that he needed Jenova's help. With Jenova he had the ability to exert some control over those who have Jenova cell's inside them (like for instance when Cloud hands over the Black Materia to Jenova at the Temple.) And TBH I think its better to kill people with the skill of a sword then just to blast the away with magic/summons/statues in the game he was a living legend, like Cloud said: Sephiroth's strength is unreal. He is far stronger in reality then any story you might have heard about him.

Never clinged to his mommy? What the heck are you saying? He went off to destroy the world to give it back to his mother!!!
(Wait....destroy...to give back....You see this is where the insanity is coming in and really making things weird!!!)
A rock that big won't simply wound the planet, it'll kill every living thing on the earth. And by doing that, the planet itself. So it wasn't a very good plan now was it? An asteroid is about the size of a building-the Black Materia finds small drifting planets! If an asteroid wiped dinosuars on this earth, a small planet would, unfailingly, destroy the earth.

The Dino Killer was larger than Meteor. Meteor was also moving at slower speeds.
And no, Sephiroth was NOT destroying the world to give it back to his mother. He was doing it for himself. At one point when he thought he was an ancient, he was doing it to revenge the atrocities done to himself and what he thought was his mother, but by the time the game starts, it's all about the Sephy.



With Jenova he had the ability to exert some control over those who have Jenova cell's inside them (like for instance when Cloud hands over the Black Materia to Jenova at the Temple.)

Reliying on mommy again...Besides he killed all the other 'clones'. Not that he could really use them for anything; they were just about useless. And he could've just killed cloud and co. to get the materia; he didn't have to control cloud to hand it to him.

HE WAS JENOVA'S MIND. JENOVA WAS HIS PUPPET, HIS MINION, HIS TOOL.


And TBH I think its better to kill people with the skill of a sword then just to blast the away with magic/summons/statues in the game he was a living legend, like Cloud said: Sephiroth's strength is unreal. He is far stronger in reality then any story you might have heard about him.


Now there's something I've noticed in all my long years of playing D&D. The wizards really kick as*. In one session, we stumbled upon about 25 ogres. My fighter was having a heck of a time with them. My brother, who has a wizard, flew into the air on the back of a summoned dragon and placed about 8 expanded, enlarged and empowered fireballs on the whole field where the ogres were and all of the fireballs overlapped at a point. The ogres were completley exterminated. One other time, we ran into 14 centaurs. One fireball fried them all, before I even got a chance to draw my sword!! That is pretty amazing. So just because someone has a sword and an evil plan, doesn't make them ulitimately badas* and powerful. Being a wizard/magic-user takes at least as much, if not, far more skill than a fighter/swordsman. Never underestimate the wizard. For that is true strength beyond all the boundries of reality.

Never underestimate the rogue or the monk.
And Wizards are only as good as the person playing them. I've known MANY a horrible wizard in my day.
By the by, what about spellblades, eh? Y'know, sword AND sorcery?
Of course, any mage is only good so long as their spells hold out, and they have a nasty tendency to run out.



And yes, I was talking about the Dragonlance Legends, but it's all Dragonlance nonetheless..

Yes, one of the lowest powered setting in D&D...


And thank you for opposing me!! Now it's starting to be fun!

Just getting started. You WILL be knocked down.


No. You see the spells are prepared before time and only a little bit, the very end of an otherwise long and complicated spell, need to be said to activate the spell. Thus, with only a few words, a wizard can cast a spell 8 pages long.

Requiring at least a standard action (a large chunk of any turn), unless they waste spell slots in order to reduce that casting time.


And if a fighter does manage to hit the wizard, the wizard has to make a concentration check, which failing is very small, since any good wizard invests a lot of ranks into concentration and takes the Combat Magic feat.

And any good fighter should be able to hit the Wizard enough that the CUMULATIVE concentration check will be an issue.
Of course, I much prefer the silencing strike. Unless you silented all your spells, a damn waste of spell slots, you have none.

[Kefka_Almighty]

IMO he's one of the best.

He did more evil things than almost any other villain I can think of. Torching a village, wiping out the Shinra building, and leaving the President dead on his chair was crazy. And then he killed Aeris. Sure, X-Death did this before him, but he actually jumped down and impaled her.

In all honesty, most of the other FF villains carried out more evil acts (and usually eviller acts) then Sephiroth did, the two ones coming immediately to mind being Kefka and Kuja. Now, while I think Sephiroth was one of the best villains because of personality, goals, or power (again, I think Kefka and Kuja beat him), I DO think he was one of the best villains merely for the sake that I thought he was a fairly cool villain.


What do u think the game would of been like without Sephiroth? i dont think FF7 would work without him. Your right it was HOJO i got him mixed up with doctor Odin out of Final Fantasy 8 hes another mad scientist!

Actually, if memory serves right, Sephiroth wasn't upset with Hojo but Dr. Gast, as it was Gast's writings that he read that allowed Sephiroth an initial idea of what he was.



He is the only FF to Spoiler: sucessfully destroy a world!

Also he's got the best freaking rants!

Technically, Kefka DID destroy the world; he didn't completely annihilate it like Kuja did, but he sent it spiralling into such disarray and had destroyed so much of the planet it that he practically had destroyed it. Still, Kuja easily ties with Kefka for my favorite FF villains, and I agree whole-heartedly that Kuja has the best rants of every villain in the series. After about seven years, I still have that rhyme he says at the beginning of disk three stuck in my head.

[Rinion]

Pfffftt... Garland's the best villian. He WILL knock you all down.


Apart from being the first villan I killed (at the grand age of two, thanks to my dearly beloved game-playing father), he was also the very essence of badass. It's too bad he was extremely easy to beat. :(

[chrisfffan]

I think sephiroth was the hardest to beat aswell Kuja was easy i beat him first time as for garland you dont even fight him!

[Jowy]

Garland is the first boss in FF1. He also turns into Chaos, the final boss.

Neo Ex-Death was the hardest Final Fantasy endboss, in my opinion. Kefka was the best villian.

[Ryushikaze]

I think sephiroth was the hardest to beat aswell Kuja was easy i beat him first time as for garland you dont even fight him!

You fight two garlands for a total of three battles (Garland, Chaos, G9)

[chrisfffan]

thanks for filling me in i thought everyone was on about that old guy Garland out of 9 with zidane and vivi

[Dragon Mage]

That's not his mother. It's not even an entity separate from Sephiroth mentally. It's an extension of himself, sent to do his bidding while he gathered power.

Oh boy, not this again. Yes we know that Jenova wasn't his actual biological mother. We got that. But I'm using 'mother' (Jenova) because that's what he constantly reffered to her as. I'm just going with the flow, in this case. Besides, it has been agreed upon that the sephiroth you see throughout the game is just Jenova, controlled by sephiroth, in a different form.


Genius and insanity are NOT mutually exclusive. Not to say that you are incorrent, but Hojo, for example, was bat loco.

Oh, yes he was insane. Cunningly insane, but still insane. And, of all things, insanity does not make one cool. (a red cape does!) but not insanity.


The man can kill you without mussing his do. That's decently badass.

Considering that he didn't really have any hair style to mess up...it still does not make him cool.


The Dino Killer was larger than Meteor. Meteor was also moving at slower speeds.
And no, Sephiroth was NOT destroying the world to give it back to his mother. He was doing it for himself. At one point when he thought he was an ancient, he was doing it to revenge the atrocities done to himself and what he thought was his mother, but by the time the game starts, it's all about the Sephy.

If the 'dino killer' was bigger than meteor then please, do explain how an asteroid is bigger than a small planet!
And sephiroth said that he was going to give the planet back to his mother. I believe it was in the flashback. So it was all about him destroying the world for his mother.


HE WAS JENOVA'S MIND. JENOVA WAS HIS PUPPET, HIS MINION, HIS TOOL.
Please reread the quote you were replying too.


Never underestimate the rogue or the monk.
And Wizards are only as good as the person playing them. I've known MANY a horrible wizard in my day.
By the by, what about spellblades, eh? Y'know, sword AND sorcery?
Of course, any mage is only good so long as their spells hold out, and they have a nasty tendency to run out.

When you look at the potential each class has, they're all very badas*. Each deserves respect.
If what you say about wizards and the player is true, then I'm afraid you have yet to meet an actual experienced wizard class player.
Spellblades are very nice no doubt. But they're that nice because they combine magic with the sword. Not the other way around.
And as for your slam at the spells, wizards have a good number of spells, esp., if you take the time to scribe some scrolls, have a high intelligance score, and know how to manipulate the given amount of spells well. It all takes some careful planning and calculations, but it is well worth it. And wizards are not useless without any spells if they have a natural strength score of 17. I don't even use spells half the time. I tend to use more spells in areas other than battle.


Yes, one of the lowest powered setting in D&D...

Do explain. A dragon orb, grimoire, epic weapons, artifacts...seems pretty powerful to me.


Just getting started. You WILL be knocked down.

Let the games begin.



Requiring at least a standard action (a large chunk of any turn), unless they waste spell slots in order to reduce that casting time.

That's because you have to take a metamagic feat which use up an insane amount of slots. And please remember that if you're going to cast a spell, you shouldn't be in a position where you have to move in the same turn. And once that spell is cast, you shouldn't have any problems to require moving in the same turn.


And any good fighter should be able to hit the Wizard enough that the CUMULATIVE concentration check will be an issue.
Of course, I much prefer the silencing strike. Unless you silented all your spells, a damn waste of spell slots, you have none.

My good sir, you have been using the wizard incorrectly. A wizard stays away, preferably, from the main concentration of battle, letting opponents come to him and pick them off as they charge at him. And any good wizard has already prepared and protected himself against any attacks and any good wizard kills the fighters before he lets them reach him.
And the Silent spell feat takes up only a spell slot one level higher. Rather cheap considering that Explosive Spell takes up a slot 3 or 4 spell levels up.

[MJN SEIFER]

I am still deciding who my favourite villain of FF is.

But Sephy will still be high on my list as he was my first.

[My_car_is_faster_than_you]

in my opinion. Kefka was the best villian.

Kefka was the best villian, in my books anyway. He was the only one that was a complete psycho from start to finish. There was no questioning his good side, because there was none.

Kuja, FFIX Spoiler: Seemed like he finally changed at the end, but it was too late by then.

Sephiroth: His loyalty to Jenova bugged me, just like as if he were a puppet such as Cloud. Also, Sephiroth was too mellow for a villian. He just killed people and moved on.

Then, I don't know about Garland, Zeromus was just a blob so it was hard to determine whether or not I hated or liked him. Um...Yu Yevon, same thing, except with 8 legs. ANd then, mm, that's it.

Kefka wins! He was undoubtedly the bad guy, and was not going back.

[feioncastor]

While Sephiroth was an excellent, well-developed villian, I don't think he was the best in the series. He was probably second best to Kefka.

You see, Sephy was noble, in a sense. He was doing what he thought was right. He wasn't trying to do evil. He was doing "justice" and all that.

Kefka was just purely insane. He was evil for the sake of evil. He killed people just to hear their screams. His reason for being was to prolong hatred and suffering, not some noble cause.

As far as the gameplay bit goes, I do like Sephy more. I thought it was a better fight. Plus, it's all packed up with the sweet mondo Omnislash at the end of the whole thing, which was awesome. But you get the phases of the fight, and the trading off between parties, and the showdown with Savior Sephiroth, complete with Supernova, which is awesome looking. And it's really not as devastating as I once thought it was.

But music, I'd go with Kefka. Dancing Mad is WAYYYYYYY cooler than One Winged Angel. I'm not saying that OWA isn't a good song; it is. But Dancing Mad is WAYYYYYYYY better.

[Dragon Mage]

Sephiroth: His loyalty to Jenova bugged me, just like as if he were a puppet such as Cloud. Also, Sephiroth was too mellow for a villian. He just killed people and moved on.
When a person just loses it, there is no true rhyme or reason to what they do. But I agree; he killed things then moved on. whoopee. *yawns*

[Raebus]

You see, Sephy was noble, in a sense. He was doing what he thought was right. He wasn't trying to do evil. He was doing "justice" and all that.


Yeah, killing a whole town and burning it to the ground is the definition of "justice". :)

[Ryushikaze]

Oh boy, not this again. Yes we know that Jenova wasn't his actual biological mother. We got that. But I'm using 'mother' (Jenova) because that's what he constantly reffered to her as. I'm just going with the flow, in this case. Besides, it has been agreed upon that the sephiroth you see throughout the game is just Jenova, controlled by sephiroth, in a different form.

Which does not refute, and actually supports my assertion that Jenova is merely an extension of Sephiroth himself.


Oh, yes he was insane. Cunningly insane, but still insane. And, of all things, insanity does not make one cool. (a red cape does!) but not insanity.

Red Herring much? The point was about genius and insanity not being mutually exclusive, not coolness.
Though again, Insanity is also not mutually exclusive with coolness.


Considering that he didn't really have any hair style to mess up...it still does not make him cool.

You just keep on telling yourself that.


If the 'dino killer' was bigger than meteor then please, do explain how an asteroid is bigger than a small planet!

Meteor was not the size of a small planet. In fact, It's not signifigantly larger than Midgar. And, as mentioned, it's not moving as fast. In fact, it actually was just sitting around, casually destroying Midgar. Unless it's got a death star inside, it's not going to planetbust.


And sephiroth said that he was going to give the planet back to his mother. I believe it was in the flashback. So it was all about him destroying the world for his mother.

And then he decided to do it for himself once he learned the truth.


Please reread the quote you were replying too.

And?
Oh, you want I should address the rest of it? He didn't kill the clones, they fell by the wayside- and as for why he wanted Cloud alive- he says it himself- he wants the boy to suffer.


When you look at the potential each class has, they're all very badas*. Each deserves respect.
If what you say about wizards and the player is true, then I'm afraid you have yet to meet an actual experienced wizard class player.

I never said that. I said that a wizard is only as good as the player. Same as a fighter. If you know the rules, you can easily make a melee character no spellcaster can hope to contest.


Spellblades are very nice no doubt. But they're that nice because they combine magic with the sword. Not the other way around.




And as for your slam at the spells, wizards have a good number of spells, esp., if you take the time to scribe some scrolls, have a high intelligance score, and know how to manipulate the given amount of spells well. It all takes some careful planning and calculations, but it is well worth it.

Exactly. It is the player, not the spells, that makes the spells tactically worthwhile.


And wizards are not useless without any spells if they have a natural strength score of 17.

And how often does this happen? And yes, even with 17 str, the Wizard devoid of all its spells will be horrendously hosed.


I don't even use spells half the time. I tend to use more spells in areas other than battle.

So you don't wizard in battle. What do you do in battle, then?


Do explain. A dragon orb, grimoire, epic weapons, artifacts...seems pretty powerful to me.

Oh pish tosh. You've said nothing that's not common to most premade settings, and damn near omnipresent once modules, homebuilds, etc. get brought in. Heck, basic greyhawk has all that stuff, and then some.


Let the games begin.

First up, dodge the falling rocks competition. See you once it's complete.


That's because you have to take a metamagic feat which use up an insane amount of slots. And please remember that if you're going to cast a spell, you shouldn't be in a position where you have to move in the same turn. And once that spell is cast, you shouldn't have any problems to require moving in the same turn.

Under perfect circumstances, this may be true. Guess how often perfect circumstances come up?


My good sir, you have been using the wizard incorrectly. A wizard stays away, preferably, from the main concentration of battle, letting opponents come to him and pick them off as they charge at him. And any good wizard has already prepared and protected himself against any attacks and any good wizard kills the fighters before he lets them reach him.
And the Silent spell feat takes up only a spell slot one level higher. Rather cheap considering that Explosive Spell takes up a slot 3 or 4 spell levels up.

If you assume perfect conditions, it's no wonder you don't see the issue. Battle rarely starts with the wizard in such a priveliged position. Needless to say, one can, and has often, snuck up on a wizard in the middle of pitched battle.

[Dragon Mage]

Which does not refute, and actually supports my assertion that Jenova is merely an extension of Sephiroth himself.

I didn't mean to refute. It's common knowledge who and what Jenova is and her connection to Sephiroth. But then the debate is over the whole biological mother and psychological mother relationships. And that will never end. I was just trying to end a perpetual argument it before it started.


Red Herring much? The point was about genius and insanity not being mutually exclusive, not coolness.
Though again, Insanity is also not mutually exclusive with coolness.

Nope, Vincent. And any other baddy with a red cape in a movie or game. ( a surprising amount.) It seems that if one has a red cape, they are automatically elevated to a state of ultimate coolness.
I never called Sephiroth genius-he certainly isn't if he's going to destroy the world with him on it. I just called him clever.


You just keep on telling yourself that.

But it's true.


Meteor was not the size of a small planet. In fact, It's not signifigantly larger than Midgar. And, as mentioned, it's not moving as fast. In fact, it actually was just sitting around, casually destroying Midgar. Unless it's got a death star inside, it's not going to planetbust.


Aeris says otherwise. (lol) It's not moving as fast because they had to have a big dramatic ending scene in where all your efforts may have gone to waste. And then of course the drop-off ending. It's all about the suspense! Called director's license.


And?
Oh, you want I should address the rest of it? He didn't kill the clones, they fell by the wayside- and as for why he wanted Cloud alive- he says it himself- he wants the boy to suffer.

refer to first quote and response on this post. That was what I was trying to get through, with less words.


I never said that. I said that a wizard is only as good as the player. Same as a fighter. If you know the rules, you can easily make a melee character no spellcaster can hope to contest.

Exactly. And judging from what you've said, you've yet to meet an experienced player.


Exactly. It is the player, not the spells, that makes the spells tactically worthwhile.

I'm glad we agree.:)


And how often does this happen?

My wizard has has a str of 17. (very useful) You'd be surprised at how often this does happen.


And yes, even with 17 str, the Wizard devoid of all its spells will be horrendously hosed.

Not if you know what you're doing. This is where that str and dex come in, and the Ambidexterity feat. (Start whallopin' with that staff!:twak:) as well as any magical items. You're given the Scribe Scroll feat for a reason; why not use it for times like these, when you're out of spells? And don't forget Spell Mastery. This will bail you out of many situations.


So you don't wizard in battle. What do you do in battle, then?

Oh, I use spells. But not exclusively spells as my only weapon. My spell storing staff, and, believe it or not, potions. Not 'spell' potions, just acid and nitroglycerin. Lovely stuff. In a serious battle (dragon, hello!) That's when I whip out the higher spells, not neccessarily attack, but more often than not, something that seriously handicapps the monster. That way all the other party members can benefit as well. Once this is done, let the lighning bolts fly.


Oh pish tosh. You've said nothing that's not common to most premade settings, and damn near omnipresent once modules, homebuilds, etc. get brought in. Heck, basic greyhawk has all that stuff, and then some.

*shrugs* whatever; it all depends on what level you start at. (a good amount don't start at 1, surprisingly enough.) But keep in mind a lot of those were made for players that are twinks. If it didn't have that stuff in it, it wouldn't be 'awesome' enought to bother playing. (in the majority opinion) It doesn't really matter here though. Let's end the Dragonlance bit, shall we? I'm afraid we may be getting a bit off topic.


First up, dodge the falling rocks competition. See you once it's complete.
:exdee:


Under perfect circumstances, this may be true. Guess how often perfect circumstances come up?

Factor in the other player whaling on the same monster, pretty often. Besides, you can only take a 5-foot step in the same round you cast a spell. That doesn't do you much, unless you cas Expiditious Retreat. And you have to cast the spell that will lever you into such an ideal situation. Don't wait for these circumstance to come up: make them happen.


If you assume perfect conditions, it's no wonder you don't see the issue. Battle rarely starts with the wizard in such a priveliged position. Needless to say, one can, and has often, snuck up on a wizard in the middle of pitched battle.

Unless 1-you are going to the battle, not ambushed, and 2-if you are ambushed that's what the skills and feats other than magic ones are for, and 3-stay in the middle of the group, chances are better you'll end up in such a position.
Like I said, make your conditions the way you want them. Manipulate the monsters-it's not about how much damage you can do; it's about what you can do without dealing damage or using attack spells. Spider Climb will become a very useful spell in nearly any situation, as well as invisibility, charm monster, hold person/monster, blindness/deafness, etc.

As for the part about sneaking up on a wizard-that's what familiars are for!

[Ryushikaze]

I didn't mean to refute. It's common knowledge who and what Jenova is and her connection to Sephiroth. But then the debate is over the whole biological mother and psychological mother relationships. And that will never end. I was just trying to end a perpetual argument it before it started.

Alright. I misunderstood. People misconstruing the Jenova/Sephy dynamic irks me too.



Nope, Vincent. And any other baddy with a red cape in a movie or game. ( a surprising amount.) It seems that if one has a red cape, they are automatically elevated to a state of ultimate coolness.
I never called Sephiroth genius-he certainly isn't if he's going to destroy the world with him on it. I just called him clever.

I'm not saying that red capes don't make you cool, just that such a statement is rather irrelevant. I also don't recall ever trying to make the claim that Sephy's a genius. I personally don't think many FF villians are geniuses, excepting Yu Yevon, the Garlands, and maybe Zeromus. And sephy wasn't planning on destroying the world, he was planning on wounding it to such a degree that it would shunt all available energy to healing, energy which he planned to absorb and become unto a god.


But it's true.

long hair, especially bishy style hair, is hard to make do what you want with it. Killing you without mussing himself at all, especially given his style, is decently impressive.


Aeris says otherwise. (lol) It's not moving as fast because they had to have a big dramatic ending scene in where all your efforts may have gone to waste. And then of course the drop-off ending. It's all about the suspense! Called director's license.

Dialogue Uber Alles! Aerith can be wrong, or speaking in a different sense, such as "Kill everything on the surface", instead of "make planet explode".
Also, there's director's license, but I prefer suspension of disbelief when analyzing fiction.


refer to first quote and response on this post. That was what I was trying to get through, with less words.

Fair enough.


Exactly. And judging from what you've said, you've yet to meet an experienced player.

No, I've met plenty of good players, who can utilize the mage well. This does not, however, mean that the mage is teh uber. It means they can utilize the mage classes well. Similarly, they can utilize the fighter classes well. At the high end, they tend to cancel each other out. It's Monk and Psion that tend to get broken at high end, once they start getting real esoteric stuff people can't counter that well.


I'm glad we agree.:)

Which has kind of been the point all along.


My wizard has has a str of 17. (very useful) You'd be surprised at how often this does happen.

To you, it might happen a lot. I personally have rolled near all 18's for character creation before, and made a Scoundrel who could kill a much ubered Emperor Palapatine with his bare hands twice in as many turns (don't ask). The thing is


Not if you know what you're doing. This is where that str and dex come in, and the Ambidexterity feat. (Start whallopin' with that staff!:twak:) as well as any magical items. You're given the Scribe Scroll feat for a reason; why not use it for times like these, when you're out of spells? And don't forget Spell Mastery. This will bail you out of many situations.

Scribe takes time, money, and Xp to do. Anyone can use magical items (and thanks to the artificer, the mage has become slightly redundant in their creation). Now, the mage can try for melee, but he will be very very bad at it compared to any other class out there.


Oh, I use spells. But not exclusively spells as my only weapon. My spell storing staff, and, believe it or not, potions. Not 'spell' potions, just acid and nitroglycerin. Lovely stuff. In a serious battle (dragon, hello!) That's when I whip out the higher spells, not neccessarily attack, but more often than not, something that seriously handicapps the monster. That way all the other party members can benefit as well. Once this is done, let the lighning bolts fly.

I hope you take precautions against that nitro. But I can understand the sentiment. Even though I like taking my characters down certain paths, I do prepare backups, like the Unarmed specialist scoundrel whose primary form of assault was a gun that could only be called a pistol by the slimmest of margins (he had also made it even more destructive than it usually was, but nevermind that).


*shrugs* whatever; it all depends on what level you start at. (a good amount don't start at 1, surprisingly enough.) But keep in mind a lot of those were made for players that are twinks. If it didn't have that stuff in it, it wouldn't be 'awesome' enought to bother playing. (in the majority opinion) It doesn't really matter here though. Let's end the Dragonlance bit, shall we? I'm afraid we may be getting a bit off topic.

Fair enough, though I wouldn't call greyhawk made for twinks. It's just kind of the rome for all D&D. Eventually everything winds up there.



Factor in the other player whaling on the same monster, pretty often. Besides, you can only take a 5-foot step in the same round you cast a spell. That doesn't do you much, unless you cas Expiditious Retreat. And you have to cast the spell that will lever you into such an ideal situation. Don't wait for these circumstance to come up: make them happen.

Yeah, if there's only one monster. Most DMs I've found like peppering the party with other monsters at the same time.


Unless 1-you are going to the battle, not ambushed, and 2-if you are ambushed that's what the skills and feats other than magic ones are for, and 3-stay in the middle of the group, chances are better you'll end up in such a position.

Even going into battle, you can start at seriously reduced ranges, such as any interior battle, or when circumstances


Like I said, make your conditions the way you want them. Manipulate the monsters-it's not about how much damage you can do; it's about what you can do without dealing damage or using attack spells. Spider Climb will become a very useful spell in nearly any situation, as well as invisibility, charm monster, hold person/monster, blindness/deafness, etc.

As for the part about sneaking up on a wizard-that's what familiars are for!

Oh right, Familiars. They can also be snuck up on. And if you kill them, bad things happen to that wizard.
Spider Climb is useful, both as a spell and ability, invisibility quickly becomes underpowered as everything gets to detect you somehow other than sight at later levels, charm monster has a built in limit that the monsters you really want to charm generally exceed (to say nothing of the ones that are smegging immune). Hold can be quite useful, and so can blindness/deafness, but none of those have a particularly difficult save, so hope they roll low.

[XandrewX]

His appearance can make him the best bad guy in the series...but the part he played in the series I doubt that he is the best bad guy...I felt that Sephiroth...was defeated too easily...even in FF7 AC...

[Goldenboko]

I think sephiroth was the hardest to beat aswell Kuja was easy i beat him first time as for garland you dont even fight him!

Are you saying the hardest final boss? If so I don't know what your talking about!

Zeromus was incredibly tough (Big Bang 2000 damage all that kills 2 of my party members and leaves the rest low health I'm lucky I was playing easy type!)

Necron had much better attacks and was more difficult (Grand Cross and Neutron Ring where better then Super Nova)
Even BFA was harder then Seph.

[Dragon Mage]

I'm not saying that red capes don't make you cool, just that such a statement is rather irrelevant. I also don't recall ever trying to make the claim that Sephy's a genius. I personally don't think many FF villians are geniuses, excepting Yu Yevon, the Garlands, and maybe Zeromus. And sephy wasn't planning on destroying the world, he was planning on wounding it to such a degree that it would shunt all available energy to healing, energy which he planned to absorb and become unto a god.

Well, the red cape thing was kind of an attempt at humor. And I was saying that whole thing with sephiroth and being smart ect, because I was saying that being insane doesn't make you cool. ~Reno~ said to name one evil guy that isn't insane, and I said 'mad' (supposedly) scientists aren't because their ideas could actually work in some cases. (unless it's got some magic in it then, no it wouldn't work and yes, they are insane. But that's the exception.
As for sephiroth's plan...let's just say that there was too much room for error to work exactly the way he wanted it too. So much more or much less damage would have been wrought, more likely the former.


ong hair, especially bishy style hair, is hard to make do what you want with it. Killing you without mussing himself at all, especially given his style, is decently impressive.

Bishy? I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the term. Or did you mean bushy? Hmm. It always seemed to me that he didn't have a hair style, he just wore it 'freestyle' if you will. Thus my claim that he didn't have a hair style to mess up.


To you, it might happen a lot. I personally have rolled near all 18's for character creation before, and made a Scoundrel who could kill a much ubered Emperor Palapatine with his bare hands twice in as many turns (don't ask). The thing is

Well just rub it in, getting 18's all the time. I have yet to roll an 18, I'll have you know! (lol).


Scribe takes time, money, and Xp to do. Anyone can use magical items (and thanks to the artificer, the mage has become slightly redundant in their creation). Now, the mage can try for melee, but he will be very very bad at it compared to any other class out there.

What version do you play? In my book, it doesn't take XP, just money and time. As too the artificer, I'm afraid I don't know that one. btw, do you play just d20 or classical as well?


I hope you take precautions against that nitro. But I can understand the sentiment. Even though I like taking my characters down certain paths, I do prepare backups, like the Unarmed specialist scoundrel whose primary form of assault was a gun that could only be called a pistol by the slimmest of margins (he had also made it even more destructive than it usually was, but nevermind that).

Yeah, that nitro is some serious stuff to be carrying into battle. I keep it in a darkwood case, lined with velvet and padded with the softest wool I could fined. Cost me a bit to get the case made but at least I don't fall down and get blown up wit my own potion! :eek:


Yeah, if there's only one monster. Most DMs I've found like peppering the party with other monsters at the same time.

Hmm, true. Then you attack the monster nearest to you. (and I know about the multiple monsters; 3 rust monsters are not fun to deal with, especially when your just about the only one that can fight them)


Even going into battle, you can start at seriously reduced ranges, such as any interior battle, or when circumstances

er...I think you got cut off for some reason. As for the seriously reduced ranges, mage armor can be your best friend here, as well as shield, blur and displacement.


Oh right, Familiars. They can also be snuck up on. And if you kill them, bad things happen to that wizard.
Spider Climb is useful, both as a spell and ability, invisibility quickly becomes underpowered as everything gets to detect you somehow other than sight at later levels, charm monster has a built in limit that the monsters you really want to charm generally exceed (to say nothing of the ones that are smegging immune). Hold can be quite useful, and so can blindness/deafness, but none of those have a particularly difficult save, so hope they roll low.

Yeah, but then the monster has to make 2 rolls if you have your familiar looking out for you. (psedodragons are very nice; a little stuck up, but nice.)
Sorry, I meant to type see invisiblity. Charm monster isn't that good for higher level monsters, true, but it may be enought to stop them from dealing a killing blow. And considering my brother (the DM) is rolling for the monsters, and his rolls are notoriously bad (I believe there's something wrong with his dice or he's very unlucky) the monsters usually roll low. But that's just my group.
What about darkvision, suggestion, chill touch, and daze and it's kindred spells? Those are very useful.

[- - - TAURUS - - -]

Seph was one of my personal favorites mainly because he was psychotic yet at the same time highly intelligent.

Far from the best though.

[BarelySeeAtAll]

awwww,i-love-Sephi,he's-the-BEST!!!!!!!!!*my-opinion,please-dont-kill-me

i-dont-think-he's-toooo-psychotic,he's-cool,so-o-well

[FFIX Choco Boy]

I liked Sephy the best, plus him and Braska's Final Aeon have the best Songs.

[Ryushikaze]

Well, the red cape thing was kind of an attempt at humor. And I was saying that whole thing with sephiroth and being smart ect, because I was saying that being insane doesn't make you cool. ~Reno~ said to name one evil guy that isn't insane, and I said 'mad' (supposedly) scientists aren't because their ideas could actually work in some cases. (unless it's got some magic in it then, no it wouldn't work and yes, they are insane. But that's the exception.
As for sephiroth's plan...let's just say that there was too much room for error to work exactly the way he wanted it too. So much more or much less damage would have been wrought, more likely the former.

I'm presuming he knew how Meteor would work from his trips both through lifestream and the temple, and knew it would leave the world intact enough and blow'd up enough for his purposes.


Bishy? I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the term. Or did you mean bushy? Hmm. It always seemed to me that he didn't have a hair style, he just wore it 'freestyle' if you will. Thus my claim that he didn't have a hair style to mess up.

Bishy, as in Bishounen. Usually defined by being incredibly long yet incredibly in control.


Well just rub it in, getting 18's all the time. I have yet to roll an 18, I'll have you know! (lol).

I don't get them all the time. Just often. For example, in a recent session, I nearly killed my party with a band of first level commoners simply because they rolled well enough.


What version do you play? In my book, it doesn't take XP, just money and time. As too the artificer, I'm afraid I don't know that one. btw, do you play just d20 or classical as well?

Mostly 3 and 3.5, with hedging between the two. I also play non d20 as well.


Yeah, that nitro is some serious stuff to be carrying into battle. I keep it in a darkwood case, lined with velvet and padded with the softest wool I could fined. Cost me a bit to get the case made but at least I don't fall down and get blown up wit my own potion! :eek:

Not entirely sure the case would help that much, but ::shrug::


Hmm, true. Then you attack the monster nearest to you. (and I know about the multiple monsters; 3 rust monsters are not fun to deal with, especially when your just about the only one that can fight them)

I know exactly what you mean, since I as a monk had to deal with several once.


er...I think you got cut off for some reason. As for the seriously reduced ranges, mage armor can be your best friend here, as well as shield, blur and displacement.

Mage Armor and shield are good, yes, but they actually go to waste on you compared to most of your party unless you really need them. I've always thought displacement lasted too shortly to be useful, and anytime you get high enough where it lasts long enough, you can pick up magic item for it instead.


Yeah, but then the monster has to make 2 rolls if you have your familiar looking out for you. (psedodragons are very nice; a little stuck up, but nice.)

Actually, it still only makes the one. You just get another chance to try and beat his sneaky.


Sorry, I meant to type see invisiblity.

When the hell was the last time I ran into an invisible enemy? I can't say it's a bad spell, but it's only useful when the foe vanishes.


Charm monster isn't that good for higher level monsters, true, but it may be enought to stop them from dealing a killing blow. And considering my brother (the DM) is rolling for the monsters, and his rolls are notoriously bad (I believe there's something wrong with his dice or he's very unlucky) the monsters usually roll low. But that's just my group.
What about darkvision, suggestion, chill touch, and daze and it's kindred spells? Those are very useful.

Darkvision is the village bike, and can be gotten permanently with a feat or class. The other spells are nifty, yes, but remember, my position is "Mages are not teh ubar" not "Mages are teh suck". Bards are generally teh suck.

[Dragon Mage]

I'm presuming he knew how Meteor would work from his trips both through lifestream and the temple, and knew it would leave the world intact enough and blow'd up enough for his purposes.

Just depends on how well you think an insane person will intepret information when he wants it to work out the way he wants it.


Bishy, as in Bishounen. Usually defined by being incredibly long yet incredibly in control.

And only a fantasy character would have hair like that.


Not entirely sure the case would help that much, but ::shrug::


It's saved my butt 3 times already. And the fact that it's wizard locked so that the thieves can't stel it and use it against you is helpful too.


Mage Armor and shield are good, yes, but they actually go to waste on you compared to most of your party unless you really need them. I've always thought displacement lasted too shortly to be useful, and anytime you get high enough where it lasts long enough, you can pick up magic item for it instead.

Man, you must have a great DM to get magic stuff like that. The only magic item I've got without me making it (scrolls) is a staff of spell storing.


When the hell was the last time I ran into an invisible enemy? I can't say it's a bad spell, but it's only useful when the foe vanishes.

In the Underdark, they're everywhere. First you can't see them in the dark, then you can't see them in the light. Annoying I tell you. And I've run into an invisable drow that summons invisible fiendish wolves, and an invisible gibbering mouther. (weird)


Darkvision is the village bike, and can be gotten permanently with a feat or class. The other spells are nifty, yes, but remember, my position is "Mages are not teh ubar" not "Mages are teh suck". Bards are generally teh suck.

Very true. Bards do suck. That's the one class that doesn't really do anything good or that makes sense, with the whole song thing. (sonic mage? what the heck?)

[chrisfffan]

Are you saying the hardest final boss? If so I don't know what your talking about!

Zeromus was incredibly tough (Big Bang 2000 damage all that kills 2 of my party members and leaves the rest low health I'm lucky I was playing easy type!)

Necron had much better attacks and was more difficult (Grand Cross and Neutron Ring where better then Super Nova)
Even BFA was harder then Seph.


i dont know about that boss u know i havent played the really old games i was saying about all the games on the playstation i found him defently the hardest to beat!

[BarelySeeAtAll]

its likely that im speaking out of my love for him, but he is by far the best, there is no better,im in love with the way he talks, moves, fights, acts, just about everything about him, in my opinion

[Dell]

I think sephiroth was the hardest to beat aswell Kuja was easy i beat him first time as for garland you dont even fight him!

Are you saying the hardest final boss? If so I don't know what your talking about!

Zeromus was incredibly tough (Big Bang 2000 damage all that kills 2 of my party members and leaves the rest low health I'm lucky I was playing easy type!)

Necron had much better attacks and was more difficult (Grand Cross and Neutron Ring where better then Super Nova)
Even BFA was harder then Seph.

BFA is a lot easier than Sephy.
BFA - 3 hit and it dies.....
Sephy - According to Endless. calculation (if memory serve right), for the very least, you need 7 hit. But, usually, 15 hit.

[Sylvie]

I think Sephiroth is far from the best villain in the series. He's a cliche. White hair? Black cloak? Big sword? Yeah. Old. Not to mention that his fanbase is 99% retarded. Like sometimes I talk to sephyboi98877masamune.

[Omni-Odin]

I know this debate will go on forever, but here's my listing on the bad guys in the games I've played.

1 (Garland) - classic baddie role. Deserves to be the first and last boss battles in the game.

2 (Emperor) - Ehhh.... not so much-a
6 (Kefka) - Don't find him to be that crazy. Kind of funny actually. Just no real story behind him and him taking over the world is not that crazy. Just liked power and he was used in experiments as mentioned in one line from some random point at some random point in the game. I just didn't enjoy him as much as some people do.

7 (Sephiroth) - I personally like him. I think I would go crazy too if I found out about that fucked up childhood. And I do find him to be the best. He's ridiculous with that outfit and sword. (Not a VII fanboy by the way. Just love the game)

8 (Ultimecia) - Awful, we find out nothing about her.
8 (Seifer) - Good ties with the main character. The redeeming factor to continue this game to the end.

9 (Kuja) - So good. Just good story really. Nothing more that I can say.

X (Seymour) - Ehhh. Kind of wierd sounding, but he always sounded like a child rapist to me. Just creepy, which I guess is good.

[Ashley Schovitz]

I personally think Kuja is the best villain.

Seconded.

I agree too along with the Elephant lady.

[Goldenboko]

I think sephiroth was the hardest to beat aswell Kuja was easy i beat him first time as for garland you dont even fight him!

Are you saying the hardest final boss? If so I don't know what your talking about!

Zeromus was incredibly tough (Big Bang 2000 damage all that kills 2 of my party members and leaves the rest low health I'm lucky I was playing easy type!)

Necron had much better attacks and was more difficult (Grand Cross and Neutron Ring where better then Super Nova)
Even BFA was harder then Seph.

BFA is a lot easier than Sephy.
BFA - 3 hit and it dies.....
Sephy - According to Endless. calculation (if memory serve right), for the very least, you need 7 hit. But, usually, 15 hit.
For the normal gamer BFA is harder. Most people who play FFX don't do 99,999 with each hit the first time they fight BFA. That's like saying Seph is too easy because of KOTR and Final-Attack Phenoix.



i dont know about that boss u know i havent played the really old games i was saying about all the games on the playstation i found him defently the hardest to beat!

No, Necron is harder (unless your level 99 when facing Seph). Necron has Nuetron Ring which does +4000 damage to the party in a game where at level 50 not many characters have 4000 HP (At least mine didn't). Also Grand Cross which lowwers your HP to 1-10 and inflicts random status effects, even instant death, and doom which are unblockable.



X (Seymour) - Ehhh. Kind of wierd sounding, but he always sounded like a child rapist to me. :laugh:

[Northcrest]

I think so because in FFV X-Death is a no emotion kind of boss. Kefka was a kocky person and acted like he was all tough. Ultimecia was boring and basically didn't cause much to happen in the story line. Kuja was all like he was all so powerful and is better then everyone. Sin basically didn't do anything major or rational. Shepiroth on the other hand is basically a mixture.

[feioncastor]

In answer to the thread's question, no, Sephiroth is not the best bad guy in the series.

If you listen to how he talks, he's not really that evil. He's just out of control. His goal isn't necessarily to destroy the world, but his plan to reach his goal does involve destroying the world. He word choice suggests that he's actually doing something noble. Protecting the Promised Land from Shin Ra, and whenever he kills someone, he talks about how they go back to the planet, implying that he did it out of kindness.

Kefka (FF6) is a good bad guy. He loves the suffering of others. He has no greater goal for happiness. He loves to hear people screaming in pain and terror. He loves to watch people die, even people who have been like family to him. His plan isn't to destroy the world. His plan seems to center around slowly and painfully killing off everything living thing on the world, for his own pleasure.

[Avarice-ness]

See: My signature. Note the barrier stopping Sephiroth from Destroying the world. Now, Note the lack of barrier on the other side, and the fire and explosions, originally that peice of land was connected! AND THAT'S BEFORE THE STORY GETS BACK IN FULL SWING. =OOOO

Sephiroth was crazy and failed, and when killed, the world would basically be the same from when it started. :(
Kefka was crazy and won, because regardless if you kill him, The worlds still going to suck really bad because he blew up 78% and most the population is gone. FFVI is a wonderful loose loose situation. :)

That Nekron(sp) dude from FFIX only because I had forgot he even had a story, which blindsided me. xD

And I'll just go with Zeromus too 'cause he scares me. .-.

Oh and to Feion. Remember when Kefka killed Ghestal, and was yelling at the statues because they wouldn't kill him quick enough, then when he died, proceeded to kick his dead body off the floating continent while laughing?
Yeah Sephiroth would have just let him go to the lifestream. =[

[feioncastor]

No, because Sephiroth had a strong attatchment to parental figures, so he wouldn't have killed Gestahl because Gestahl had been like a father to Kefka. He would've given him a planet or something, or like, tried to reunite him with a bunch of hooded guys with tatoos, at which point, Gestahl would have just been all like, "Dude, knock it off.", and Sephiroth would've been all like, "Father, don't be angry at me or they might make a straight to DVD feature film involving some guy who turns into me and I'll have a brother who cries all the time despite being a fully grown man."

The way I see it, Sephiroth was insane, but still wanted to do what was right. He was doing what he genuinely believed in his messed up head. He was trying to fix things and make everything right.

Kefka was doing what he thought was wrong. He was killing just to kill. He suceeded in drowing the planet in a sea of explosions, killing most of the people and even sinking the item shop in Mobliz about 73.8% underwater, cutting off all access to the local Dried Meat market. Kefka's wraith unleashed like 10 legendary beasts that are all mega-powerful (unless you've mastered Shoat and Phantom). Kefka made it so that traveling by Chocobo is really impractical because instead of having two main continents, the world was now made up of like 47 continents.

Dancing Mad > One Winged Angel

But you already knew that.

[Avarice-ness]

No, because Sephiroth had a strong attatchment to parental figures, so he wouldn't have killed Gestahl because Gestahl had been like a father to Kefka. He would've given him a planet or something, or like, tried to reunite him with a bunch of hooded guys with tatoos, at which point, Gestahl would have just been all like, "Dude, knock it off.", and Sephiroth would've been all like, "Father, don't be angry at me or they might make a straight to DVD feature film involving some guy who turns into me and I'll have a brother who cries all the time despite being a fully grown man."

The way I see it, Sephiroth was insane, but still wanted to do what was right. He was doing what he genuinely believed in his messed up head. He was trying to fix things and make everything right.

Kefka was doing what he thought was wrong. He was killing just to kill. He suceeded in drowing the planet in a sea of explosions, killing most of the people and even sinking the item shop in Mobliz about 73.8% underwater, cutting off all access to the local Dried Meat market. Kefka's wraith unleashed like 10 legendary beasts that are all mega-powerful (unless you've mastered Shoat and Phantom). Kefka made it so that traveling by Chocobo is really impractical because instead of having two main continents, the world was now made up of like 47 continents.

Dancing Mad > One Winged Angel

But you already knew that.

Oh so it was an item shop! I was trying to figure out what that was.

Yes I did already know that. And I don't think Kefka did it because he thought it was wrong, Blowing up the planet seemed to be entertaining at the time, because we all know, if Kekfa's not entertained he kills people for entertainment. See: THE DOMA MASSACRE.

Sephiroth killed who got in his way, Kefka likes to kill anything that lives, even grass. :razz:

[Zeromus_X]

Yes, and he also made the ocean purple.

[feioncastor]

Yeah, and he made the world map music all lame and with too much organ. It's a good thing that Setzer knew where we could get an airship with the power to change the world map theme to the funky bass driven hotness that it becomes.

In all honesty, I would've accepted the Narshe music as being the new world map music. When I first heard it, I thought, "Wow, this music suits the landscape perfectly. And that Peeper died before I hit him."

I think, and I'll bet Mr. Uematsu thinks too, that his work on FF6 was his best work. I've heard that the Jidoor theme was supposed to be in FF2 or FF3 on the NES, but they didn't need it or something, so it was shelved and put in Jidoor, the westernmost city on the map... NOT!










...


Yeah, so I don't think Sephiroth is the best bad guy in the series.

[Zeromus_X]

'The Magic House' was indeed an unused track from Final Fantasy II. It still sounded pretty hot on the Famicom too. I think they extended the melody for FFVI, though.

[Avarice-ness]

Yeah, and he made the world map music all lame and with too much organ. It's a good thing that Setzer knew where we could get an airship with the power to change the world map theme to the funky bass driven hotness that it becomes.

In all honesty, I would've accepted the Narshe music as being the new world map music. When I first heard it, I thought, "Wow, this music suits the landscape perfectly. And that Peeper died before I hit him."

I think, and I'll bet Mr. Uematsu thinks too, that his work on FF6 was his best work. I've heard that the Jidoor theme was supposed to be in FF2 or FF3 on the NES, but they didn't need it or something, so it was shelved and put in Jidoor, the westernmost city on the map... NOT!










...


Yeah, so I don't think Sephiroth is the best bad guy in the series.

Yeah Jidoor is fail, it had to get old unused music. =O

Oh and yeah Back on Topic.

ACTUALLY I was thinking now that Chaos is pretty lame, and I don't even remember who the bad guy was in FFVIII..

[Goldenboko]

and I don't even remember who the bad guy was in FFVIII..

Ultimecia... but noone liked her.

[Fatal Impurity]

i personally loved Sephiroth! i thought he was the best villain with Kuja not far behind (mainly because Kuja was a more regal, sophisticated version of Sephy with a cooler plan {instead of a big rock he chose to take over the world with eidolons} but sephy wins it for craziness and originality) i rather liked the screw loose seymour because he freaks me out big time..............as for kefka he seemed a bit too much like a corny bond villian especially with the evil laughing......plus looking like a clown acadamy reject doesnt help either.....

[MastrProject]

seems as If Spheroth was good guy then badguy I think that makes him cool but thats just me and he was killed once before by Cloud. I think because he came back that makes him cool even if it was just to get owned again the momas boy, and I think a big sword like so would be impracticle.(the game still is fun)

[The Crystal]

and I don't even remember who the bad guy was in FFVIII..

Ultimecia... but noone liked her.

Yeah, because no one noted that Evil Edea and Ultimecia are the same person. How ridiculous.

[chrisfffan]

its seems to be between Kafka and Sephiroth so here is the ultimate question who would win in a straight fight???

[Goldenboko]

its seems to be between Kafka and Sephiroth so here is the ultimate question who would win in a straight fight???

In all honesty Kefka. He has the power of the Statues which absorb all magic. He then proceded to absorb the power of the statues which are the source of all magic in FFVI. He downs 6 espers(summons) with 6 attacks. Sephiroth does little to compare to that.

[chrisfffan]

anyone eles?

[Carl the Llama]

name one antagonist that isnt insane...
Any movie/book/game(including FF7) with an evil scientist in it. They're actually very smart and twistedly evil. Not insane, because their ideas are works of geinus.
and so trying to destroy a planet to become a god isnt the work of an insane genius?



sorry I may have misinterprated this but are you saying that people that have long hair cant be cool? dont forget that they most likely designed him to be like a goth and admitidly most goths have long hair... I dont have any problem with his image.
No,no...that's just a steroytype. Long haired people can be cool; my own hair is 2 feet long! (remember, I'm a girl) And not all goths have long hair; just black hair. All of the goths at my school have black hair. Not really long. Spiked, mowhawk, or a bad fight with some scissors, the hair isn't long. I'm just saying that the pretty-boy bad guy's nearly always have long hair and I find that a guy with long, flowing hair does much to make them seem less badas*. (does he brush it everyday!? What shampoo does he use to get that wonderful shine?!) See what I mean?
Well not being a goth myself I wouldnt know much about tgoths but IMO Sephiroth has a very gothic aperance



He never 'clinged' to his 'mummy' his plan was to become a god by bringing in a Meteor which would threaten the life of the planet and when the planets life is threatened the lifestream wells up at that wound, and in order to do that he needed Jenova's help. With Jenova he had the ability to exert some control over those who have Jenova cell's inside them (like for instance when Cloud hands over the Black Materia to Jenova at the Temple.) And TBH I think its better to kill people with the skill of a sword then just to blast the away with magic/summons/statues in the game he was a living legend, like Cloud said: Sephiroth's strength is unreal. He is far stronger in reality then any story you might have heard about him.

Never clinged to his mommy? What the heck are you saying? He went off to destroy the world to give it back to his mother!!!
(Wait....destroy...to give back....You see this is where the insanity is coming in and really making things weird!!!)
A rock that big won't simply wound the planet, it'll kill every living thing on the earth. And by doing that, the planet itself. So it wasn't a very good plan now was it? An asteroid is about the size of a building-the Black Materia finds small drifting planets! If an asteroid wiped dinosuars on this earth, a small planet would, unfailingly, destroy the earth.
No I distinctly remember Jenova/Sephiroth saying that it would Threaten the life of the planet no matter what would happen in the real world... this is Final Fantasy after all



With Jenova he had the ability to exert some control over those who have Jenova cell's inside them (like for instance when Cloud hands over the Black Materia to Jenova at the Temple.)

Reliying on mommy again...Besides he killed all the other 'clones'. Not that he could really use them for anything; they were just about useless. And he could've just killed cloud and co. to get the materia; he didn't have to control cloud to hand it to him.
like Ryushikaze said... Sephiroth wanted to make him suffer.



And TBH I think its better to kill people with the skill of a sword then just to blast the away with magic/summons/statues in the game he was a living legend, like Cloud said: Sephiroth's strength is unreal. He is far stronger in reality then any story you might have heard about him.

Now there's something I've noticed in all my long years of playing D&D. The wizards really kick as*. In one session, we stumbled upon about 25 ogres. My fighter was having a heck of a time with them. My brother, who has a wizard, flew into the air on the back of a summoned dragon and placed about 8 expanded, enlarged and empowered fireballs on the whole field where the ogres were and all of the fireballs overlapped at a point. The ogres were completley exterminated. One other time, we ran into 14 centaurs. One fireball fried them all, before I even got a chance to draw my sword!! That is pretty amazing. So just because someone has a sword and an evil plan, doesn't make them ulitimately badas* and powerful. Being a wizard/magic-user takes at least as much, if not, far more skill than a fighter/swordsman. Never underestimate the wizard. For that is true strength beyond all the boundries of reality.
erm did I miss the point where he used SuperNova on your team... or where he summoned a massive meteor to destroy the planet now lets think about that a second one fireball = 14 centaurs, one meteor = one planet aka a shed load of people, its the fact that he doesnt need to use his awesom magical powers to own, he is very versatile.

[Dragon Mage]

and so trying to destroy a planet to become a god isnt the work of an insane genius?

No. It's the work of an insane person. I mean really-becoming a god? That's not even scientific, it's religious. At least in science they have a plausible way to acheive something real...


Well not being a goth myself I wouldnt know much about tgoths but IMO Sephiroth has a very gothic aperance

*pish*, black clothes, white makeup. Easy. Anyone will look gothic. But Sephiroth actually enjoys what he's doing. Goths don't. It would be insulting him too much to call him a goth.


No I distinctly remember Jenova/Sephiroth saying that it would Threaten the life of the planet no matter what would happen in the real world... this is Final Fantasy after all

One can be injured, live a while, then eventually die from the wound. And in the time the planet was dying from the wound, Sephiroth could do whatever evil deed he had in mind. I'm not saying that planet destruction would be immiediate-just fatal.


like Ryushikaze said... Sephiroth wanted to make him suffer.

Include the fact that you couldn't play a game without any characters....that tends to explain why the bad guys never do what would be quick and easy. They always have to go the hard way.


erm did I miss the point where he used SuperNova on your team... or where he summoned a massive meteor to destroy the planet now lets think about that a second one fireball = 14 centaurs, one meteor = one planet aka a shed load of people, its the fact that he doesnt need to use his awesom magical powers to own, he is very versatile.

To destroy the planet...so you're agreeing with me?

As for the rest of the quote, thank you for proving my point.

For the last line...
Are you quite sure? If you remember in the flashback, all he did was cast lightning when ever there was a random encounter. The only time you actually saw him use his sword was 1)against the dragon, and 2)on Tifa.
It seems to me he relied on magic a lot. I could kill a dragon with one short spell, far superior to using a sword, however D&D does not mesh well with the Final Fantasy battle system. The damage counts are way off.

[Carl the Llama]

and so trying to destroy a planet to become a god isnt the work of an insane genius?

No. It's the work of an insane person. I mean really-becoming a god? That's not even scientific, it's religious. At least in science they have a plausible way to acheive something real...
Yes really becoming a god... not in the sence of religon but in the omnipotnt side and like I said before while it may seem far fetched to you or me, I distinctly remember someone tell me this was a fantasy game...:rolleyes2



Well not being a goth myself I wouldnt know much about goths but IMO Sephiroth has a very gothic aperance

*pish*, black clothes, white makeup. Easy. Anyone will look gothic. But Sephiroth actually enjoys what he's doing, Goths don't. It would be insulting him too much to call him a goth.
not that im saying your wrong or anything but there have been quite a number of goths that have enjoyed being evil like so:

The gothic fascination with the macabre has occasionally raised public concerns regarding the well-being of goths. Popular media has occasionally made reports that have reinforced the controversial conceptions that all goths are evil, or have a connection with Satanism, as exemplified by the fallout of the Columbine High School massacre, (which was carried out by two students labeling themselves as the 'Trenchcoat Mafia') linked to the goth subculture. Other such reports of killers having goth affiliation have been the Red Lake High School massacre, the Scott Dyleski killing, the Dawson College Shooting, and others, all of which were accused to have had a link to the goth subculture.
again while not all goths are as such of the above there are some that DO enjoy doing what they do.



No I distinctly remember Jenova/Sephiroth saying that it would Threaten the life of the planet no matter what would happen in the real world... this is Final Fantasy after all

One can be injured, live a while, then eventually die from the wound. And in the time the planet was dying from the wound, Sephiroth could do whatever evil deed he had in mind. I'm not saying that planet destruction would be immiediate-just fatal.
but on the flip side the planet could also heal itself, but lets no go down that path for the moment, say the planet did die, Sephiroth would be so powerful then that he could move from planet to planet without the need for air or anything.



erm did I miss the point where he used SuperNova on your team... or where he summoned a massive meteor to become a god now lets think about that a second one fireball = 14 centaurs, one meteor = possabillity of one planet aka a shed load of people, its the fact that he doesnt need to use his awesom magical powers to own, he is very versatile.

To destroy the planet...so you're agreeing with me?

As for the rest of the quote, thank you for proving my point.
sorry I didnt realise you was so padantic... iv changed it to say what I really meant...


For the last line...
Are you quite sure? If you remember in the flashback, all he did was cast lightning when ever there was a random encounter. The only time you actually saw him use his sword was 1)against the dragon, and 2)on Tifa.
It seems to me he relied on magic a lot. I could kill a dragon with one short spell, far superior to using a sword, however D&D does not mesh well with the Final Fantasy battle system. The damage counts are way off.
so you missed the part in FFVII:AC where he and Cloud had a massive battle with Swords. and about the D&D... I never played the game and besides, are we not disscussing Sephiroth, D&D has nothing to do with him.

[chrisfffan]

I think a lot of people have got Sephiroth mixed up with somebody else he turned to the dark side when he found out the truth! he isn’t a mummys boy! Haha he wants to make it up to her because she should have been the ruler of the planet! that’s natural you can understand his point of view he’s mad and a genius it depends from what way you look at it!

[Dragon Mage]

es really becoming a god... not in the sence of religon but in the omnipotnt side and like I said before while it may seem far fetched to you or me, I distinctly remember someone tell me this was a fantasy game...

I clearly remember him saying that he would cease to be of this world and would become a god. Not the ultimate badass-a god.


again while not all goths are as such of the above there are some that DO enjoy doing what they do.

I see what you're getting at but what I meant is that Sephiroth is happy doing what he does. As a general rule, Goths aren't happy. Ever.


but on the flip side the planet could also heal itself, but lets no go down that path for the moment, say the planet did die, Sephiroth would be so powerful then that he could move from planet to planet without the need for air or anything.

Yeah. So? What's your point?


sorry I didnt realise you was so padantic... iv changed it to say what I really meant...

Is 'anal retentive' spelt with a hyphen? :lol:
sorry bad joke.

okay, that clears up that one point. But the rest of it still proves my point. His awesome magical powers is what makes him so formidible. (SuperNova, Meteor). And it's the reason why the planet is about to be destroyed.


so you missed the part in FFVII:AC where he and Cloud had a massive battle with Swords. and about the D&D... I never played the game and besides, are we not disscussing Sephiroth, D&D has nothing to do with him.

But you never saw the damage Sephiroth inflicted in the movie, in the absence of damage #'s. The whole fight was each one blocking the others' attack, and Sephiroth got in a hit only once. With no #'s.
As for D&D; Well, you quoted what I said and that was said in D&D terms. If D&D damage counts were raised up to those in FF, than one fireball could easily kill a wing of dragons. The two are far unbalanced, and so direct comparison is not fair.

btw, you really should play D&D. You'll like it.

[Goldenboko]

I think a lot of people have got Sephiroth mixed up with somebody else he turned to the dark side when he found out the truth! he isn’t a mummys boy! Haha he wants to make it up to her because she should have been the ruler of the planet! that’s natural you can understand his point of view he’s mad and a genius it depends from what way you look at it!

You overestimate Sephiroth's power. The only thing that really showed that Sephiroth had pretty good power was the fact he could surpress Holy.

And where are you getting this genius thing from? His plan is barely thought through. If he was a genius he would've counted on his barriar being broken through. He had no secondary plan, he counted on his barriar and when it fell he had no backup plan. Nothing to fall back on.

[Timerk]

Kefka.

He 'won.'

[Ryushikaze]

I clearly remember him saying that he would cease to be of this world and would become a god. Not the ultimate badass-a god.

To be frank, the concept of a god is so badly defined as to be worthless. Kefka also defined himself as a god, and he was 'merely' incredibly powerful. If I recall the entirety of Sephy's plan, he wanted to become so powerful as to become nigh invulnerable, immortal, etc, in the classic, grecian understanding of what a god was.


I see what you're getting at but what I meant is that Sephiroth is happy doing what he does. As a general rule, Goths aren't happy. Ever.

As a general rule, they're also not particularly physically active, but I've known some exceptions. However, Sephiroth isn't a goth (as ill defined as the concept is), but a sadistic egomaniac of the grandest design.


Yeah. So? What's your point?

Well, the entire point was that his plan, were it successful, didn't need a living planet to stay around.


okay, that clears up that one point. But the rest of it still proves my point. His awesome magical powers is what makes him so formidible. (SuperNova, Meteor). And it's the reason why the planet is about to be destroyed.

Agreed, though I hesitate to attribute any in battle spell to reality. Though relating this back, always be hesitant to attribute magic> over things as a blanket, because its terribly inconsistent across worlds.
Though he was supposedly death in a trenchcoat on the battlefield without the materia as well.


so you missed the part in FFVII:AC where he and Cloud had a massive battle with Swords. and about the D&D... I never played the game and besides, are we not disscussing Sephiroth, D&D has nothing to do with him.


But you never saw the damage Sephiroth inflicted in the movie, in the absence of damage #'s. The whole fight was each one blocking the others' attack, and Sephiroth got in a hit only once. With no #'s.
As for D&D; Well, you quoted what I said and that was said in D&D terms. If D&D damage counts were raised up to those in FF, than one fireball could easily kill a wing of dragons. The two are far unbalanced, and so direct comparison is not fair.

One Meteor Swarm perhaps, but definitely not one fireball.


btw, you really should play D&D. You'll like it.

I agree. Depending on your DM, though, your mileage may vary.

[Dragon Mage]

To be frank, the concept of a god is so badly defined as to be worthless. Kefka also defined himself as a god, and he was 'merely' incredibly powerful. If I recall the entirety of Sephy's plan, he wanted to become so powerful as to become nigh invulnerable, immortal, etc, in the classic, grecian understanding of what a god was.

There's a huge difference there. A god has complete power over life and death, and can understand the concept of infinity, as well as being invulnerable and immortal. Sephiroth may be able to get the power, but he's still got stats, and if it's got stats, it can be killed, which wouldn't make him a god.


As a general rule, they're also not particularly physically active, but I've known some exceptions. However, Sephiroth isn't a goth (as ill defined as the concept is), but a sadistic egomaniac of the grandest design.

Truth.


Well, the entire point was that his plan, were it successful, didn't need a living planet to stay around.

Exactly. The argument was if Meteor would destroy the world or not. Then the sudden change of topic. Hmmmmm.....is someone DODGING!!!!!!!


One Meteor Swarm perhaps, but definitely not one fireball.

True. I did exaggerate a little too much...

[Ryushikaze]

There's a huge difference there. A god has complete power over life and death, and can understand the concept of infinity, as well as being invulnerable and immortal. Sephiroth may be able to get the power, but he's still got stats, and if it's got stats, it can be killed, which wouldn't make him a god.

Even the grecian gods could be killed. As I said, the concept of what entails a god has wildly fluctuated over the years. None of what you said universally applies to gods (even immortality doesn't always come up).
Of course, in D&D, even gods have stats. And I do agree, if it has stats, it can be killed (with the exception of Cthulu, and they literally cheated for that result), but being killable doesn't make one not a god.


Exactly. The argument was if Meteor would destroy the world or not. Then the sudden change of topic. Hmmmmm.....is someone DODGING!!!!!!!

No, more stating that the planet living and dying is slightly irrelevant. I still maintain that Meteor was not based around raw Kinetic Impact, and even if it were, it wouldn't obliterate the planet. At worst, it would cause a nuclear winter effect and leave another massive crater where Sephypoo could situate himself and soak up all the energy willy nilly.


True. I did exaggerate a little too much...

Eh, no prob.

[chrisfffan]

where is this coming from Sephiroth is a Goth haha don’t make me laugh they don’t hurt anyone! haha you could say Vincent is a Goth too with his dark clothes and cold personality but he’s not!

[Dragon Mage]

Even the grecian gods could be killed. As I said, the concept of what entails a god has wildly fluctuated over the years. None of what you said universally applies to gods (even immortality doesn't always come up).
Of course, in D&D, even gods have stats. And I do agree, if it has stats, it can be killed (with the exception of Cthulu, and they literally cheated for that result), but being killable doesn't make one not a god.

Heh, it just goes to prove that gods are as unconstant as the humans that believe in them. I agree, 'god' is just too broad a subject to debated over in this form.
And though being invulnerable doesn't make one a god, I'm sure it would help. Though Sephiroth didn't actually seek to make himself literally invulnerable; rather he just sought to gain so much power it would be nigh impossible to kill him.


No, more stating that the planet living and dying is slightly irrelevant. I still maintain that Meteor was not based around raw Kinetic Impact, and even if it were, it wouldn't obliterate the planet. At worst, it would cause a nuclear winter effect and leave another massive crater where Sephypoo could situate himself and soak up all the energy willy nilly.

Irrelevant? If it happened to Earth it would sure seem pretty darn relevant I think.
And just how do you think the dinosuars were wiped out? A massive asteroid impact that covered the planet in a cloud of dust and ash for many years. Water condesned around all the particals and fell in the form of percipitation. However, this cloud effectively blocked out virtually all sunlight, so the percipitation was snow. Plants died, they would be the first to go, and after that, everything else.
The lakes, seas, oceans are all dead, with the exception of life that survives at the lowest point of the ocean. Even then, there's a small chance that those animals down there would survive, since there would be an enourmus disruption of the Earth's tetonic plates, causing heat to rise or vanish altogether. There's no fish in the upper waters whatsoever. The planet would be as lively and warm as Sedna. And it will last for thousands, or millions of years.
Nuclear winter is the most deadly thing that could possibly happen. That's no small matter to be tossed out as something 'causing another crater'. It wouldn't be 'just' another crater-it'd be the whole world that would become the crater. If Meteor did hit and cause a nuclear winter, that's the death knoll for the whole planet. And in this case the planet wouldn't ever be able to heal itself, ever-it would die from the wound and any remaing life on the planet would soon follow.

[Goldenboko]

Even the grecian gods could be killed. As I said, the concept of what entails a god has wildly fluctuated over the years. None of what you said universally applies to gods (even immortality doesn't always come up).
Of course, in D&D, even gods have stats. And I do agree, if it has stats, it can be killed (with the exception of Cthulu, and they literally cheated for that result), but being killable doesn't make one not a god.

Thats because god is a far overused word. And personally I can't think of a Greek God that died. They usually just have some eternal punishment (i.e. Prometheus having his kidney or whatever it was ripped out everyday)

[pantsofpower]

Sephiroth ain't the best. Just like everything else in 7, he is WAY overrated. I mean, that's not to say he's a bad villain, or that VII is a bad game, they're awesome, but so are pretty much all the other games Square has ever made. I prefer not to pick favorites and get into these petty and divisive agruments over which game is the best, which villain is the best, which music is the best. When someone asks me what the best role playing game is, I tell them Final Fantasy. If they ask which one, I say all of them. Everyone, I'm sure, has their own preferences and therefore their own favorites. However, I do not believe that any Final Fantasy game is truly "better" than the others. This consistency is one of the reasons I think Final Fantasy is the best role-playing game series of all time. Damn, that was long-winded.:tongue:

[The Crystal]

You overestimate Sephiroth's power. The only thing that really showed that Sephiroth had pretty good power was the fact he could surpress Holy.

He could controll Jenova, was absorbing part of the Lifestream in the Crater, AND in AC, he became a God.


If he was a genius he would've counted on his barriar being broken through. He had no secondary plan, he counted on his barriar and when it fell he had no backup plan. Nothing to fall back on

He had Jenova Synthesis to protect him. And he have a "barrier" that protected him(when the heros reach the core of the world, Sephiroth's "barrier" made them float in the air, and they couldn't move their bodies, and when they tried to aproach him, they are threw back by a green energy).

[Goldenboko]

You overestimate Sephiroth's power. The only thing that really showed that Sephiroth had pretty good power was the fact he could surpress Holy.

He could controll Jenova, was absorbing part of the Lifestream in the Crater, AND in AC, he became a God.

First off when in AC is he ever called a god? Secondly Controling Jenova wasn't much power, that just gave him someone to do his bidding when he was stuck in the northern crater.

[The Crystal]

You overestimate Sephiroth's power. The only thing that really showed that Sephiroth had pretty good power was the fact he could surpress Holy.

He could controll Jenova, was absorbing part of the Lifestream in the Crater, AND in AC, he became a God.

First off when in AC is he ever called a god? Secondly Controling Jenova wasn't much power, that just gave him someone to do his bidding when he was stuck in the northern crater.

You said that holding Holly was an example of Sephiroth's power. But you have to remember that Sephiroth's power is his will. He was holding Holly with the power of his will, and he was controlling Jenova with the power of his will too. Controlling Jenova is an example of Sephiroth's power.

He is never called a god in AC, but if i remember well, he is called a god in the Reunion Files.
In FFVII, Sephiroth wanted to have controll over all the Lifestream, becoming a god. In AC he has his own version of Lifestream that he could completelly controll. And his tainted Lifestream was more powerfull than the pure Lifestream, because he could corrupt the pure one, transforming it in his own version of Lifestream.
The Reunion Files say too, that in AC, Sephiroth is in his most powerfull form ever, and that he is the most powerfull character of the FFVII series.
In AC, Sephiroth is a god.

[YTDN]

He may be the most powerful in the FF7 series, but not in the entire series. I believe Kefka and Kuja are better. Kefka has eight dragons, a beam of light that can kill you from any point in the world, and when he's in the area of the Goddess statues, he can't be hurt. When Kuja achieved Trance, he destroyed an entire world, and he controls the Mist, and can conjure up strong Mist monsters.

Beat that, mama's boy!

[Goldenboko]

You overestimate Sephiroth's power. The only thing that really showed that Sephiroth had pretty good power was the fact he could surpress Holy.

He could controll Jenova, was absorbing part of the Lifestream in the Crater, AND in AC, he became a God.

First off when in AC is he ever called a god? Secondly Controling Jenova wasn't much power, that just gave him someone to do his bidding when he was stuck in the northern crater.

You said that holding Holly was an example of Sephiroth's power. But you have to remember that Sephiroth's power is his will. He was holding Holly with the power of his will, and he was controlling Jenova with the power of his will too. Controlling Jenova is an example of Sephiroth's power.

He is never called a god in AC, but if i remember well, he is called a god in the Reunion Files.
In FFVII, Sephiroth wanted to have controll over all the Lifestream, becoming a god. In AC he has his own version of Lifestream that he could completelly controll. And his tainted Lifestream was more powerfull than the pure Lifestream, because he could corrupt the pure one, transforming it in his own version of Lifestream.
The Reunion Files say too, that in AC, Sephiroth is in his most powerfull form ever, and that he is the most powerfull character of the FFVII series.
In AC, Sephiroth is a god.
He is far from a god. A god would be Kefka, or Kuja, who clearly have more power then Sephiroth.

[The Crystal]

He is far from a god. A god would be Kefka, or Kuja, who clearly have more power then Sephiroth.

How you know that they are more powerfull than Sephiroth? Sephiroth can destroy an entire world if he want(he was using the tainted Lifestream to do it, in the end of AC), and is important to note that Sephiroth could have killed Cloud any time. He wasn't using half of his true power in that fight. The problem is that, in AC, we never saw the true power of Sephiroth in a fight, because he was only playing with Cloud.

And Sephiroth said(in FFVII) that when he could controll the Lifestream, he would be a god. And this is exactly what he was doing in AC. And when SE say that he is the most powerfull being in FFVII universe, that means that he is more powerfull than beings like Omega Weiss and Omega Weapon itself.
The Lifestream is the source of life and magic in FFVII. Sephiroth could corrupt it, and controll it. He could controll the source of life and magic in the planet. He is a god.


Just to you guys understand, i'm not saying that AC Sephiroth is more powerfull than Kuja and Kefka, i'm only saying that we never saw Sephiroth fight with all his power in AC, meaning that we don't know if he is more powerfull than Kuja or Kefka.

[Darkja]

his name wins.

/

[YTDN]

He is far from a god. A god would be Kefka, or Kuja, who clearly have more power then Sephiroth.

How you know that they are more powerfull than Sephiroth? Sephiroth can destroy an entire world if he want(he was using the tainted Lifestream to do it, in the end of AC), and is important to note that Sephiroth could have killed Cloud any time. He wasn't using half of his true power in that fight. The problem is that, in AC, we never saw the true power of Sephiroth in a fight, because he was only playing with Cloud.

And Sephiroth said(in FFVII) that when he could controll the Lifestream, he would be a god. And this is exactly what he was doing in AC. And when SE say that he is the most powerfull being in FFVII universe, that means that he is more powerfull than beings like Omega Weiss and Omega Weapon itself.
The Lifestream is the source of life and magic in FFVII. Sephiroth could corrupt it, and controll it. He could controll the source of life and magic in the planet. He is a god.


Just to you guys understand, i'm not saying that AC Sephiroth is more powerfull than Kuja and Kefka, i'm only saying that we never saw Sephiroth fight with all his power in AC, meaning that we don't know if he is more powerfull than Kuja or Kefka.

Personally, I don't think he was that powerful if he didn't use that power. After all, with great power comes the ability to abuse that power, and Sephiroth did not. Which means he is a weaker villain than Kuja and Kefka.

[The Crystal]

Personally, I don't think he was that powerful if he didn't use that power. After all, with great power comes the ability to abuse that power, and Sephiroth did not. Which means he is a weaker villain than Kuja and Kefka.

He did not use his full power, because he knew that he could kill Cloud with his first attack. But he didn't want to do this. He wanted to humiliate Cloud, to make him suffer. This is why he decided to have a "simple" sword fight with Cloud.
You already played DoC? If you played, think about Omega Weiss. Think about Omega Weapon. Sephiroth is more powerfull than them.

[Muse]

Sephiroth was nothing more than a victim of his own self-conciousness, and tremendous ego. He practically thrived on his own visions of grandeur, and that is what finally destroyed him in the end when Cloud fought him in the Lifestream. Cloud didn't kill or vanquish him, his own ego did.

[chrisfffan]

Kuja was nothing!

[Goldenboko]

Kuja was nothing!

WHAT!!! ARE YOU EVEN THINKING?!? He blew up a freakin' world! Boom, gone! How can you call that nothing? What did Sephiroth do... summon a meteor and get it stopped?

Watch this and there will be no way you can call him nothing. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=v1Sn2rRQutU)

[The Crystal]

Kuja was nothing!

He have more development than Sephiroth, have a better personality than Sephiroth, have a better reason than Sephiroth, have better quotes than Sephiroth, is more intelligent than Sephiroth, and did more damage to his world than Sephiroth.
Yeah, he is nothing. :rolleyes2


What did Sephiroth do... summon a meteor and get it stopped?

Burned Nibelheim, killed everyone in Shinra, killed the Midgar Zolom with great style, killed Aerith, hold Holly, "manipulated" Cloud and his friends to the Reunion, summoned Meteor, was the responsible for the release of the Weapons(even if this wasn't his original plan), made Cloud belive that he(Cloud) "didn't exist", created a very powerfull body(Safer Sephiroth) to absorb the Lifestream, was the responsible for the destruction of Midgar(his Meteor destroyed it), corrupted the world with Geostigma, and created his own Lifestream becoming a god.


Hell, both of them are great! I love both of them.

[Reks]

i think sepiroth is an okay villian, but like dragon mage said a man who sicks his mommy on you and has waist length hair can NOT be taken serouisly.

[bleda]

I can't believe people are voting for KUJA! He has no class whatsoever. He was basically just some random idiot and then some big bad guy, and he looked like a panzy the whole way through. We were able to watch Kefka rise to the top, instead of just being some powerful gunt mouth. Sephiroth started out good, which is a huge plus in my books. Sephiroth had so much story, so much background. Main bad guys need story, or they need to at least be underestimated.

Kefka was underestimated, and we actually got to know Sephiroth. Kuja? Who the heck is Kuja? He's some idiot that you all of the sudden find standing on a giant plant with you, taunting you. Maybe I was to concerned with cards



MOST IMPORTANTLY: For the people who are saying Sephiroth was a mommas boy so Kuja wins: I can feel comfortable saying papa didn't buy Kuja his evening dress

[YTDN]

I can't believe people are voting for KUJA! He has no class whatsoever. He was basically just some random idiot and then some big bad guy, and he looked like a panzy the whole way through. We were able to watch Kefka rise to the top, instead of just being some powerful gunt mouth. Sephiroth started out good, which is a huge plus in my books. Sephiroth had so much story, so much background. Main bad guys need story, or they need to at least be underestimated.

Kefka was underestimated, and we actually got to know Sephiroth. Kuja? Who the heck is Kuja? He's some idiot that you all of the sudden find standing on a giant plant with you, taunting you. Maybe I was to concerned with cards



MOST IMPORTANTLY: For the people who are saying Sephiroth was a mommas boy so Kuja wins: I can feel comfortable saying papa didn't buy Kuja his evening dress

Kuja was a genome created by Garland to destroy the souls on Gaia, so then Terra's souls could fill the void. Then Garland created Zidane, and Kuja got jealous, thinking he was gonna get replaced, so he threw Zidane down to Gaia. He then proceeded to wreak havoc on gaia, he destroyed Alexandria, Burmecia, Cleyra, Lindblum, and Madain Sari directly or indirectly. Then he went to get revenge on his creator for 'replacing' him, which was his goal all along, he was just looking for a strong power to destroy Garland. He found Trance, absorbed all the angry souls on the Invincible, then completely kicked Zidane's butt, and Tranced. He then killed Garland, but before he died, he told Kuja that he had a time limit on his life, and was gonna die soon, 'without ever leaving his mark on the world'. Kuja then snapped, because he believed himself to be better than everyone else, so he decided that if he, the best person in thw world, was gonna die, the rest of the world would die too. Cue large scale destruction. You calling Kuja 'just some random guy?'

And if you just make fun of him for his clothes, well, he looks good in them. And you should wear what loks good on you.

[duck king]

sephiroth is a good villain the best in my opinion, but their all good( I've only played ff 7-9) each has its flaws kuja looks like a fag I mean look at him. ultimecia is a chick who only uses magic and no weapons. sephiroth is a big mama's boy in so many ways I cant repeat them all this century. they should make a game containg all three now that would be a chalenging game.

[chrisfffan]

KUJA is a girl how can he be the best bad guy? he’s a cross dresser

[Goldenboko]

KUJA is a girl how can he be the best bad guy? he’s a cross dresser

You are being a 4 year old. "Oh my god he likes a girl he must be gay! AHHHHHHHH!"

I could go on about how Sephiorth looks emo, but I don't. Kuja had far better rants, was stronger, and did more villianous deeds.

[Nasarian Altimeros]

KUJA is a girl how can he be the best bad guy? he’s a cross dresser
I love it when people completely ignore everything that's been said, come up with something that's not only irrelevant but also factually inaccurate and generally waste the time of everyone who bothered to read their post.

[YTDN]

KUJA is a girl how can he be the best bad guy? he’s a cross dresser

He's not a cross dresser. He just happens to like dressing the way he does, since it suits him. And do you think Sephiroth is any better? He loks like any other black leather evil villain.

[The Crystal]

I can't believe people are voting for KUJA! He has no class whatsoever. He was basically just some random idiot and then some big bad guy, and he looked like a panzy the whole way through. We were able to watch Kefka rise to the top, instead of just being some powerful gunt mouth. Sephiroth started out good, which is a huge plus in my books. Sephiroth had so much story, so much background. Main bad guys need story, or they need to at least be underestimated.

Kefka was underestimated, and we actually got to know Sephiroth. Kuja? Who the heck is Kuja? He's some idiot that you all of the sudden find standing on a giant plant with you, taunting you. Maybe I was to concerned with cards



MOST IMPORTANTLY: For the people who are saying Sephiroth was a mommas boy so Kuja wins: I can feel comfortable saying papa didn't buy Kuja his evening dress

Kuja was a genome created by Garland to destroy the souls on Gaia, so then Terra's souls could fill the void. Then Garland created Zidane, and Kuja got jealous, thinking he was gonna get replaced, so he threw Zidane down to Gaia. He then proceeded to wreak havoc on gaia, he destroyed Alexandria, Burmecia, Cleyra, Lindblum, and Madain Sari directly or indirectly. Then he went to get revenge on his creator for 'replacing' him, which was his goal all along, he was just looking for a strong power to destroy Garland. He found Trance, absorbed all the angry souls on the Invincible, then completely kicked Zidane's butt, and Tranced. He then killed Garland, but before he died, he told Kuja that he had a time limit on his life, and was gonna die soon, 'without ever leaving his mark on the world'. Kuja then snapped, because he believed himself to be better than everyone else, so he decided that if he, the best person in thw world, was gonna die, the rest of the world would die too. Cue large scale destruction. You calling Kuja 'just some random guy?'

And if you just make fun of him for his clothes, well, he looks good in them. And you should wear what loks good on you.

YTDN, you are answering to him?! Is obvious that the guy didn't even play the game. Just ignore him.


I could go on about how Sephiorth looks emo, but I don't. Kuja had far better rants, was stronger, and did more villianous deeds.

If you are talking about AC Sephiroth, this is debatable.

[bleda]

Actually I beat the game, but I must admit I should have paid more attention if I wanted to bash Kuja. The thing about it for me I guess, is I had no prior relationship to the fellow (that is, I met him, and he was completely evil). As you've shown my dumbass, there is more to the guy, but (and I may be completely wrong on this) it all kinda stacks near the end of the game? I don't like when a super villain comes into the game evil. That being said, I didn't pay enough attention to the story to argue, I just pimped my party members.

Sephiroth, Kuja, and Kefka can all blow up the world. They all have femenine traits. The differences between them is their story. I enjoyed Kefka, but maybe that's because he was so crazy. I have to admit, story wize, he wasn't anything special. Sephiroth had an amazing story, amazing background through the whole game. Unless i'm completely missing something, Kuja kind of came in with his story late.

Thanks for the info on Kuja, I appreciate it.

[YTDN]

Actually I beat the game, but I must admit I should have paid more attention if I wanted to bash Kuja. The thing about it for me I guess, is I had no prior relationship to the fellow (that is, I met him, and he was completely evil). As you've shown my dumbass, there is more to the guy, but (and I may be completely wrong on this) it all kinda stacks near the end of the game? I don't like when a super villain comes into the game evil. That being said, I didn't pay enough attention to the story to argue, I just pimped my party members.

Sephiroth, Kuja, and Kefka can all blow up the world. They all have femenine traits. The differences between them is their story. I enjoyed Kefka, but maybe that's because he was so crazy. I have to admit, story wize, he wasn't anything special. Sephiroth had an amazing story, amazing background through the whole game. Unless i'm completely missing something, Kuja kind of came in with his story late.

Thanks for the info on Kuja, I appreciate it.

Thanks. But you find out that he was there rather earlier. Garnet says at one point that he turned up at the castle on her 16th birthday, working for Queen Brahne. He also creates the black mages that go destroying places. He's shown in Burmecia in disc one, with Brahne and Beatrix, he's shown in the Treno auction talking about trying to capture Garnet, and when Garnet is captured, he puts her to sleep with his powers. So he actually comes in rather early. And he comes in evil straight away because he's doing his job to cause destruction of Gaia.

[chrisfffan]

I said he was a girl because I knew it would get a rise out of you! he’s a good bad guy too.

[Crop]

Personally, I don't think he was that powerful if he didn't use that power. After all, with great power comes the ability to abuse that power, and Sephiroth did not. Which means he is a weaker villain than Kuja and Kefka.

He did not use his full power, because he knew that he could kill Cloud with his first attack. But he didn't want to do this. He wanted to humiliate Cloud, to make him suffer. This is why he decided to have a "simple" sword fight with Cloud.


Yea and he lost, what an asshole.

Rufus was the best bad guy ever. All the rest thaught they were too cool for school.

[chrisfffan]

i dont think Rufus can be on the list as one of the best bad guys he gives orders to others he never dose anything himself.

[Crop]

i dont think Rufus can be on the list as one of the best bad guys he gives orders to others he never dose anything himself.

Exactly, he has lots of power and he uses it to his advantage.

[duck king]

sephiroth rules hes got all the pluses, looking cool, starting of good but going bad when he sees he is just like the monsters in the reactor he turns evil. when does kuja turn evil, who the hell is he anyway, Ithink he looks as gay as is humanly or alienly possible. sephiroth has plans to rule the earth after he anhialates all living people and absorbs the lifestream to recreate everything how he wants it, what does kuja do destroy the world and then what? someone tell me because it looks like squaresoft just ran out of Ideas for a villain so they made the first gay one.

[bleda]

sephiroth rules hes got all the pluses, looking cool, starting of good but going bad when he sees he is just like the monsters in the reactor he turns evil. when does kuja turn evil, who the hell is he anyway, Ithink he looks as gay as is humanly or alienly possible. sephiroth has plans to rule the earth after he anhialates all living people and absorbs the lifestream to recreate everything how he wants it, what does kuja do destroy the world and then what? someone tell me because it looks like squaresoft just ran out of Ideas for a villain so they made the first gay one.

i'm glad i'm not the only one.

[Enjolras]

In my opinion, Sephiroth is the best villian of the series. He looks awesome, is amazingly powerful, and has a great backround story. I only played FFVI a little bit, so I can't comment on Kefka. As for Kuja, I'm not gonna make childish comments about the way he dresses, but I don't think he compares with Sephi in power, story, difficulty to beat (not that Sephi's very hard), and especially not in looks.

[duck king]

thanks bleda, I may have spoken wrong when i said first gay villain I have just recently seen a picture of kefka and he to looks gay.

[Sn4tcH]

All right, I know I'm a noob, but I need to get this point across. I bought all the FF games after playing FFX way back when it came out. I then went ahead and played them in order. (of course back then, 3 wasn't available...)

And after all was said and done, the only villains who stuck out to me were Sephiroth and Kuja. That's right, the all mighty Kefka was hardly a speck in my mind. The reason for that is because Kefka played the cackling crazy bad guy well. But I never liked the crazy old clown routine no matter how powerful he got. No matter how many people he killed or how much damage he caused, he's still a crazy man in make-up.

Kuja on the other hand, now he was evil, but as others said... well... here:

Guy 1: OH NOES! IT'S KUJA!
Guy 2: Who dat beez? We almost at the end of game, and I never seen him!
Guy 1: Well, he done bad things. Like, BOOM and BAM and CRUNCH! Blow up lots of people and planets.
Guy 2: WOW! I should be scared of him, despite his utter lack of back story.
Guy 1: OH! He was built in lab, and so on... he's just pissed.
Guy 2: I guess that's a better twist than the orphanage in FF8.
Guy 1: Ha ha ha! Good one!
*Large explosion*
Guy 2: What was that noise!?
Guy 1: Kuja just blew up a whole world!
Guy 2: That makes him the best Final Fantasy villain ever right?
Guy 1: Yes, but only because we hate Sephiroth.
Guy 2: That makes sense.

But, to be fair, Kuja had some kick butt dialogue, and that gives him major points in my book.

But finally there is Sephiroth. This is the man I feared before I ever even saw him. Just a trail of blood and a sword in a mans back, that was Sephiroth. Soon, it all started leaking out. The man was an unstoppable soldier, he went mad after he found out he was an experiment, he killed the main characters loved ones. Then he goes and creates one of the most famous twists in video game history by killing Aerith. He went on to nearly destroy the world and there ya go.

So what makes a good villain? The deeds he does or me being able to hate him. See, I could care less about Kefka, and Kuja I thought was cool. But Sephiroth, I hated and feared Sephiroth, and it wasn't about beating the game anymore, it was about killing him.

If I don't hate you, then you fail as a true villain, no matter how big your body count is.

[duck king]

good, good, very good, I sort of agree. Although I personaly like sephiroth because he is so evil and hate able. your right though kuja is not as good as sephiroth at being evil ( I think kuja might be a huge fag) hes still a good villain.

[Omni-Odin]

i think sepiroth is an okay villian, but like dragon mage said a man who sicks his mommy on you and has waist length hair can NOT be taken serouisly.

That's it. For all the people out there who say Sephitroth was a moma's boy, I think you need to get your story straight. "Mother" is just a term he used for Jenova. His actual mother and fatherwas Lucrecia and Hojo. Go ahead and tell me you know this. Then I'll tell you that you should know Sephiroth was just relying on Jenova for her power. Oh, and by the way:

Mama's Boy: a boy excessively attached to his MOTHER; lacking normal masculine interests

[YTDN]

Yes, but Sephiroth believed Jenova to be his mother, therefore he still has a close attachment to his mother-figure. It's like if you had an adoptive mother, you could still be a mama's boy, because the 'mother' you have a close attachment to is a mother to you.

[chrisfffan]

But finally there is Sephiroth. This is the man I feared before I ever even saw him. Just a trail of blood and a sword in a mans back, that was Sephiroth. Soon, it all started leaking out. The man was an unstoppable soldier, he went mad after he found out he was an experiment, he killed the main characters loved ones. Then he goes and creates one of the most famous twists in video game history by killing Aerith. He went on to nearly destroy the world and there ya go.

So what makes a good villain? The deeds he does or me being able to hate him. See, I could care less about Kefka, and Kuja I thought was cool. But Sephiroth, I hated and feared Sephiroth, and it wasn't about beating the game anymore, it was about killing him.

If I don't hate you, then you fail as a true villain, no matter how big your body count is.

[chrisfffan]

i agree with that larst post!

[Avarice-ness]

good, good, very good, I sort of agree. Although I personaly like sephiroth because he is so evil and hate able. your right though kuja is not as good as sephiroth at being evil ( I think kuja might be a huge fag) hes still a good villain.

I don't think Sephiroths intentions were evil, more so a skewed good. *just said this in a thread in General FF*

He wanted to PROTECT the holy land, Anyone with evil intentions only want to protect themselves and honestly he was never selfish in his mission other than the fact he wanted to smash a meteor into the planet destroying everything and himself to PROTECT something he felt was being threatened.

In his mind, killing everything was a way to save what he believed in, therefore it was rational. It's as if *repeating self..* cops put criminals in jail because they killed someone, because good wins. But then the idea of good gets skewed to the point of, if someone as much as litters on the street they get shot, beaten down, then thrown in jail to the point of anything veiwed as bad is a threat. I consider Sephiroth as more of a skewed protector of what he thought was right than an evil villain killing people for his own entertainment instead of reasons.

[chrisfffan]

yea he thought what he was doing was right and in a twisted kind of way you can see his point of view!

[PuPu]

i agree with that larst post!


You're agreeing with your own post?

Urg...besides, Kefka's obviously the best, even though he might look like a clown. Kefka ruthlessly poisons Doma River, killing innocent people and even his own soldiers that were imprisoned in there, drinking the water. He also waited patiently for Gestahl to take over the Floating Continent just so he could betray him and take all the magic in the world of FFVI (besides the Espers). He terrorized people on top of his tower with "Light of Judgement." In the end, he also just got bored and decided to destroy all humans.

Kefka and Kuja are much alike in many ways, villany and power and are almost equals.

Most people just like Sephiroth because he can win a pretty boy contest.

[Forsaken Lover]

No way he has a chance of winning against Kuja... Kuja was gorgeous.

[Firo Volondé]

i agree with that larst post!

Good for you. If you disagree with your own post, you're obviously crazy.


Kefka and Kuja are much alike in many ways, villany and power and are almost equals.

Most people just like Sephiroth because he can win a pretty boy contest.

Kefka and Kuja are both good villains, but for different reasons. Kefka was vicious and ugly, Kuja was egotistic and self-obsessed. Kuja would win that pretty-boy contest, he was far more effeminate.

[shadow12912]

i have beaten ff 1-10 and by far sephiroth is the best bad guy i have seen hands down

[Carl the Llama]

I will never see why people like Kefka, I really cant stand him, I mean for instance when your fighting him and he runs away I was shouting at the screen "WHY THE HELL ARE YOU STANDING THERE YOU IDIOTS!" and he was iritateing to no end, how anyone could actully like him is beyond me. IMHO badguys should look cool and be fearsom not just a random run of the mill guy who goes insane and moves a couple of statues and destoys the world as the know it, lets face it, anyone could have done what Kefka did: he was just some guy who move some statues Kuja and Sephiroth on the other hand used there own abilitys to do what they did what insanely powerful skills did Kefka have? was Kefka feared by people?

[chrisfffan]

ha ha it wasn’t my post its somebody else who had a say on this before I couldn’t find his name so I left it blank!

[Goldenboko]

what insanely powerful skills did Kefka have?

Light of Judgement could obliterate towns anywhere in the world.


was Kefka feared by people?
Absolutely! He had a reign of fear for a year! Destroying anyone who opposed him with his Light of Judgement.

[duck king]

that does sound alittle more evil than sephiroth, but still kefka looks gay.

[Goldenboko]

*Sigh* That was listed for Kefka. And if your saying that Kefka looks gay then your saying clowns=Gay which isn't true. Besides appearence is just about the only thing Seph does win. Beuty is only skin deep... Evil pierces skin ;)

[VitalChance]

I believe Rufus is more cynical. He wanted to rule with fear. Sephy want to rule with honor.

[PuPu]

If I don't hate you, then you fail as a true villain, no matter how big your body count is.

What exactly do you even mean by this? People hate Shuyin because he didn't exactly do much and only wanted destroy Spira because his girlfriend died. People hate Kefka as well because he always taunted you and outsmarts you all the time. Besides, if someone you knew in real life does stuff to make you hate him all the time, would you say he's a great villain? Or that he was evil? Your post is totally opinionated and judging by your posts, you are like many blind Sephy fans I see all the time.

And somehow, I doubt you even played FFVI and didn't know who Kefka was until his name got mentioned.

[chrisfffan]

ha ha that wasn’t my post to begin with! look their are lots of good bad guys out there from the final fantasy series but I think Sephy comes out on top he’s the coolest and in the end the most evilest and understandable character in the series for me.

[The Crystal]

I believe Rufus is more cynical. He wanted to rule with fear. Sephy want to rule with honor.

Sephiroth want to rule with honor?! Sephiroth want to destroy the planet!

And why many people say that he is not powerfull like the other villains? In the end of AC he is a god!

[Carl the Llama]

IMO evil is suposed to be seductive: thats how people become evil as it is somthing desireable: if you wanted to be an evil bloke would you want to be A. a little man that has snide comments about him even by people under his own command throughout the game or a man who arguably has the biggest group of followers in the history of Final Fantasy: obviously 9 out of 10 people will choose the latter oh and BTW the light of judgement was a magical ability given to him from the statues which means yes any old joe could have done what he did.

[Enjolras]

Hey Pupu, just because people like Sephiroth, doesn't mean they are all just 'blind Sephy fan's'. Many people have very good reasons for liking Kefka, Kuja etc, and I respect that, and think they're both great villians, but I still like Sephiroth the most. You don't have to accuse people of being ignorant just because their opinion doesn't match yours.

[Goldenboko]

Hey Pupu, just because people like Sephiroth, doesn't mean they are all just 'blind Sephy fan's'. Many people have very good reasons for liking Kefka, Kuja etc, and I respect that, and think they're both great villians, but I still like Sephiroth the most. You don't have to accuse people of being ignorant just because their opinion doesn't match yours.

PuPu is trying to say that most of the Seph post have been opinionated and haven't had reasons, which he is say is ignorant. Which I agree with. I think you should read the

and judging by your posts
He isn't just saying "You like Seph your dumb!" He's saying "Support your answer or I'm going to think your a Blind Sephy fan".

[Avarice-ness]

I will never see why people like Kefka, I really cant stand him, I mean for instance when your fighting him and he runs away I was shouting at the screen "WHY THE HELL ARE YOU STANDING THERE YOU IDIOTS!" and he was iritateing to no end, how anyone could actully like him is beyond me. IMHO badguys should look cool and be fearsom not just a random run of the mill guy who goes insane and moves a couple of statues and destoys the world as the know it, lets face it, anyone could have done what Kefka did: he was just some guy who move some statues Kuja and Sephiroth on the other hand used there own abilitys to do what they did what insanely powerful skills did Kefka have? was Kefka feared by people?

*skips in laughing*
You obviously never got past the Doma part. xDD Kefka played 'captain weakness' until he killed the emperor then pushes him off a flying island, gained god like status, destroyed 85% of the planet, and gained himself a cult.

Kefka basically has all the skills any one of the main characters in FFVI can get, if not more. People seem to forget that Celes and Kefka were raised the same with magic infused in them when they were children. Kefka had the light of Judgement, he would use it at any time for any lack of reason. Kefka was feared by the entire planet, It could possibly be because he had a cult and a tower that could basically see everything happening so no one was safe, or maybe it's because HE DID DESTROY 85% OF THE WORLD, GET A CULT, AND YOU COULD NEVER GET AWAY FROM HIM. Kefka was smart, He worked from the inside up, were as Sephiroth killed people on the inside then went on his own, Kefka used the Empire to his own benefit until he was able to gain ultimate power. The statues didn't give him power by the way, He moved them just to get the world off balance, then took some of their power, If you would have thrown Celes in the middle of those statues she would have been able to take their power as well.

And before anyone says "Oh well Sephiroth has a cult" Actually no, Sephiroth has a cult of experiments like him that really couldn't do much other than mumble incoherent words. Kefka on the other hand got a cult with people who figured it would be better to join him then die, since they've seen what he did to prolly everyone the people in the cult prolly knew.

:)

[Dragon Mage]

Sephiroth want to rule with honor?! Sephiroth want to destroy the planet!

And why many people say that he is not powerfull like the other villains? In the end of AC he is a god!

I would have to agree with you there. Sephiroth wasn't honorable. He stabbed people in the back for crying out loud! Honorable? I think not.

However, if you really look at it, nearly all the villans could be considered 'gods' from the criteria set up here. So in that case, Sephiroth isn't a pioneer.

[Avarice-ness]

Sephiroth want to rule with honor?! Sephiroth want to destroy the planet!

And why many people say that he is not powerfull like the other villains? In the end of AC he is a god!

I would have to agree with you there. Sephiroth wasn't honorable. He stabbed people in the back for crying out loud! Honorable? I think not.

However, if you really look at it, nearly all the villans could be considered 'gods' from the criteria set up here. So in that case, Sephiroth isn't a pioneer.

Sephiroth didn't want to rule, He wanted to protect the promised land. As I said earlier, his veiws on good and evil were skewed, in his mind, him destroying the planet saves the Promised land because it's something he felt worth saving. His intentions were noble on another level of nobility. And yeah, The idea of 'becoming a god' has become something else at this point of the thread.

But back stabbing or not, Sephiroth did what he was doing to protect something, it's not like he was going around killing because he thought it was fun to kill, he was killing the things he veiwed as a threat to the promised land which happened to be everything in existance. He had no intentions as ruling as a god, and even if he did, he was smart which should have made him realize if you destroy existance (not to mention himself) there's nothing to rule.

[Enjolras]

You make a very good point Goldenboco, I won't deny that there are a lot of opinionated Sephy posts. The piece Pupu quoted was from chrisfffan, whose post wasn't entirely clear. However, chrisfffan had copied that from an earlier post by Sn4tch, who did have a reasoned post. I originally thought Pupu had quoted Sn4tch, and not chrisfffan. I now understand his point of view.

[Avarice-ness]

You make a very good point Goldenboco, I won't deny that there are a lot of opinionated Sephy posts. The piece Pupu quoted was from chrisfffan, whose post wasn't entirely clear. However, chrisfffan had copied that from an earlier post by Sn4tch, who did have a reasoned post. I originally thought Pupu had quoted Sn4tch, and not chrisfffan. I now understand his point of view.

I honestly think every post that says "Sephiroth looks the coolest" or anything to the extent of 'looking cool' should be erased.

[Dragon Mage]

Sephiroth didn't want to rule, He wanted to protect the promised land. As I said earlier, his veiws on good and evil were skewed, in his mind, him destroying the planet saves the Promised land because it's something he felt worth saving. His intentions were noble on another level of nobility. And yeah, The idea of 'becoming a god' has become something else at this point of the thread.

But back stabbing or not, Sephiroth did what he was doing to protect something, it's not like he was going around killing because he thought it was fun to kill, he was killing the things he veiwed as a threat to the promised land which happened to be everything in existance. He had no intentions as ruling as a god, and even if he did, he was smart which should have made him realize if you destroy existance (not to mention himself) there's nothing to rule.

Good God man can you hear yourself? He didn't want to protect the Promised Land he wanted to get it. And when he couldn't get it, he decided that no one could have it. He is the most unoble jackass in the game. Killing flower girls by sabbing them in the back, trying to destroy the world because he couldn't get what he wanted, burning down towns.....must I go on? THAT is not noble. It's like killing the person you're guarding kind make the whole point moot, no? According to you, he's destroying what he wants to save, becuase it's in danger. IT'S IN DANGER BECUASE HE'S GOING TO DESTROY IT!!!!!! Mull over that a little and I'll get back to you.

And by 'god' I mean, becoming so powerful it's nigh impossible to kill him.


I honestly think every post that says "Sephiroth looks the coolest" or anything to the extent of 'looking cool' should be erased.

But I do agree with you here. If one is going to argue, argue on reasonable facts, not personal opinion.

[VeloZer0]

I don't think you can write of looking cool that trivially. When you define 'best' villain what are you describing? Are you looking for most successful, most well developed? Then appearance is somewhat trivial.

However, I take 'best' to mean the villain that most enhanced your game playing experience. And to deny that appearance is a part of this is just plain ludicrous.

(Personally I think Kuja and Kefka were far better villain’s development wise; however neither of them I felt increased my enjoyment of the game as much as Sephiroth did.)

[Avarice-ness]

Sephiroth didn't want to rule, He wanted to protect the promised land. As I said earlier, his veiws on good and evil were skewed, in his mind, him destroying the planet saves the Promised land because it's something he felt worth saving. His intentions were noble on another level of nobility. And yeah, The idea of 'becoming a god' has become something else at this point of the thread.

But back stabbing or not, Sephiroth did what he was doing to protect something, it's not like he was going around killing because he thought it was fun to kill, he was killing the things he veiwed as a threat to the promised land which happened to be everything in existance. He had no intentions as ruling as a god, and even if he did, he was smart which should have made him realize if you destroy existance (not to mention himself) there's nothing to rule.

Good God man can you hear yourself? He didn't want to protect the Promised Land he wanted to get it. And when he couldn't get it, he decided that no one could have it. He is the most unoble jackass in the game. Killing flower girls by sabbing them in the back, trying to destroy the world because he couldn't get what he wanted, burning down towns.....must I go on? THAT is not noble. It's like killing the person you're guarding kind make the whole point moot, no? According to you, he's destroying what he wants to save, becuase it's in danger. IT'S IN DANGER BECUASE HE'S GOING TO DESTROY IT!!!!!! Mull over that a little and I'll get back to you.

And by 'god' I mean, becoming so powerful it's nigh impossible to kill him.


I honestly think every post that says "Sephiroth looks the coolest" or anything to the extent of 'looking cool' should be erased.

But I do agree with you here. If one is going to argue, argue on reasonable facts, not personal opinion.

Yes, I do hear myself, and I am a MIGHTY GOD. Not just good. He didn't want it all for himself, if you remember his insane rantings about how the not pure people (basically everyone other than the ancients which is.. basically everyone 'cept Aeris) would destroy the promised land because of their impurities, He wanted all of them to die because they didn't deserve to go to the promised land. Kill all the impurities, in his head, You'd only have him by default. The reason he killed Aeris is because she posed as a threat to him, he wanted to smash a meteor into the planet because he knew the planet would gush with the lifestream and if he could get all that power he -could- become a god, and with his thinkings, Gods can get into the promised land because they're as holy and pure as the ancients once were.

He wanted to destroy the planet, not the promised land, In his head these are two different things. Go back to the game, disc one perferably and read his ramblings in depth about how "Clouds ancestors ran and hid in shelters while the ancients fought" and what not, He hates the 'impurities' living because they are not good enough to make it into the Promised Land, only the ancients. And no one can say "Well he killed Aeris and she was an ancient" yeah she was, but Sephiroth -was- human, so she posed as a threat, he killed her as simple as that.

The idea of 'promised Land' can be interperted by the gamer, it's not like you could look on the world map for 'promised land' and find it, it's obviously not the lifestream because as we saw with cloud, that doesn't really help to much. My idea of the 'Promised Land' is much like Heaven should be, the purest get in. Ironically in FF7 the lifestream was as pure as you get, and if Sephiroth could use that he could get in the promised land. I don't believe the planet itself was the promised land by anymeans.

[Dragon Mage]

Yes, I do hear myself, and I am a MIGHTY GOD. Not just good. He didn't want it all for himself, if you remember his insane rantings about how the not pure people (basically everyone other than the ancients which is.. basically everyone 'cept Aeris) would destroy the promised land because of their impurities, He wanted all of them to die because they didn't deserve to go to the promised land. Kill all the impurities, in his head, You'd only have him by default. The reason he killed Aeris is because she posed as a threat to him, he wanted to smash a meteor into the planet because he knew the planet would gush with the lifestream and if he could get all that power he -could- become a god, and with his thinkings, Gods can get into the promised land because they're as holy and pure as the ancients once were.

He wanted to destroy the planet, not the promised land, In his head these are two different things. Go back to the game, disc one perferably and read his ramblings in depth about how "Clouds ancestors ran and hid in shelters while the ancients fought" and what not, He hates the 'impurities' living because they are not good enough to make it into the Promised Land, only the ancients. And no one can say "Well he killed Aeris and she was an ancient" yeah she was, but Sephiroth -was- human, so she posed as a threat, he killed her as simple as that.

The idea of 'promised Land' can be interperted by the gamer, it's not like you could look on the world map for 'promised land' and find it, it's obviously not the lifestream because as we saw with cloud, that doesn't really help to much. My idea of the 'Promised Land' is much like Heaven should be, the purest get in. Ironically in FF7 the lifestream was as pure as you get, and if Sephiroth could use that he could get in the promised land. I don't believe the planet itself was the promised land by anymeans.

And since all the Ancients are dead, that would mean everyone on the planet is unpure and must be destroyed. The frapping planet is the promised land, or it's lifestream at any rate. He's a prime example of misanthropy, so anything he says should include that fact. SEPHIROTH WAS NEVER WHOLLY HUMAN!!!!!! He was a half-alien, thus, he wan't human! There is no 'anceints' and 'non-anceints'-technically they're all the same. The Cetra however were telepathically gifted and were able to communicate with the planet because of this. If you destroy the planet then you destroy it's lifestream=destroying the promised land. You can't have one with out the other. Whoope sephiroth, real good move on your part!!!-_-. Give me a break.
And following your idea of heaven, that should mean all children and unborn babies should get in. They don't. They go in Limbo. Your vision is flawed.

[Avarice-ness]

Yes, I do hear myself, and I am a MIGHTY GOD. Not just good. He didn't want it all for himself, if you remember his insane rantings about how the not pure people (basically everyone other than the ancients which is.. basically everyone 'cept Aeris) would destroy the promised land because of their impurities, He wanted all of them to die because they didn't deserve to go to the promised land. Kill all the impurities, in his head, You'd only have him by default. The reason he killed Aeris is because she posed as a threat to him, he wanted to smash a meteor into the planet because he knew the planet would gush with the lifestream and if he could get all that power he -could- become a god, and with his thinkings, Gods can get into the promised land because they're as holy and pure as the ancients once were.

He wanted to destroy the planet, not the promised land, In his head these are two different things. Go back to the game, disc one perferably and read his ramblings in depth about how "Clouds ancestors ran and hid in shelters while the ancients fought" and what not, He hates the 'impurities' living because they are not good enough to make it into the Promised Land, only the ancients. And no one can say "Well he killed Aeris and she was an ancient" yeah she was, but Sephiroth -was- human, so she posed as a threat, he killed her as simple as that.

The idea of 'promised Land' can be interperted by the gamer, it's not like you could look on the world map for 'promised land' and find it, it's obviously not the lifestream because as we saw with cloud, that doesn't really help to much. My idea of the 'Promised Land' is much like Heaven should be, the purest get in. Ironically in FF7 the lifestream was as pure as you get, and if Sephiroth could use that he could get in the promised land. I don't believe the planet itself was the promised land by anymeans.

And since all the Ancients are dead, that would mean everyone on the planet is unpure and must be destroyed. The frapping planet is the promised land, or it's lifestream at any rate. He's a prime example of misanthropy, so anything he says should include that fact. SEPHIROTH WAS NEVER WHOLLY HUMAN!!!!!! He was a half-alien, thus, he wan't human! There is no 'anceints' and 'non-anceints'-technically they're all the same. The Cetra however were telepathically gifted and were able to communicate with the planet because of this. If you destroy the planet then you destroy it's lifestream=destroying the promised land. You can't have one with out the other. Whoope sephiroth, real good move on your part!!!-_-. Give me a break.
And following your idea of heaven, that should mean all children and unborn babies should get in. They don't. They go in Limbo. Your vision is flawed.

I stopped reading once I read the thing that almost 99% of people know, and apparently you didn't.

o o;


Sephiroth is Hojo and Luceria(sp)'sKid.
You just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth right there. Thanks for playing! :razz:

[Jessweeee♪]

He's a good villain, but if you think about it, he's also a big mamma's boy.

[Sn4tcH]

Ouch, poor Chrisfffan getting pounced on for quoting my lil post at the bottom of page 5. But here's a summary of my thoughts in case you don't wish to go back and read the whole thing.

1. Sephiroth is my favorite FF villain
2. Kuja is pretty darned close.
3. Kefka didn't scare me.

Near the end of my post I mentioned that no matter how high your body count is, it won't make you the best villain. Now am I saying that Sephiroth could take Kuja or Kefka in a fight? No, not at all. I am perfectly capable of acknowledging that Kefka became a god, and that Kujas trance was really destructive.

But destructive ability does not make you a good villain. It's what you say and what you do and how you do. The style of it and the ability to just be a bastard. The fact that I keep on killing you and you keep on coming back. And one of the scariest things is being insane enough to think that causing the death of millions is the right thing to do.

These are all the reasons why I think Sephiroth is the best villain. He had the villainous qualities that both Kefka and Kuja had. He had the mysterious side and amazing speeches of Kuja, and the ability to pull off truly evil things like Kefka.

And just as a side note, someone made a comment that perhaps I haven't even played Final Fantasy VI (I know the post was directed towards Chrisfffan, but it was still my words that were commented on.) Let me give you some background. I am reasonably new FF player. I had played Final Fantasy for NES when I was a kid, but I wasn't a Final Fantasy fan until I played FFX. After playing that, I went out and bought Origins, Chronicles, Anthology, VII, VIII, IX, and even Tactics.

Seeing as that is how it is, I couldn't be a "blind Sephiroth fan." I know a lot of people love Kefka and Sephiroth because it reminds them of the first time they played VI and VII. Well, I'm not in that group, and I played them in order. And as a completely unbiased individual who has no nostalgic reasons for liking Sephiroth, Kuja, or Kefka I think my opinion is pretty rare one.

And one last thing, and I really feel like I need to repeat this. I am not judging a villain on how many people he killed and what kind of power he had. I am judging them by how much I hated them in game. Kefka was a god-clown. Kuja I felt bad for, and actually kind of liked. But I hated Sephiroth... that makes him the best villain in my opinion.

[The Crystal]

Yes, I do hear myself, and I am a MIGHTY GOD. Not just good. He didn't want it all for himself, if you remember his insane rantings about how the not pure people (basically everyone other than the ancients which is.. basically everyone 'cept Aeris) would destroy the promised land because of their impurities, He wanted all of them to die because they didn't deserve to go to the promised land. Kill all the impurities, in his head, You'd only have him by default. The reason he killed Aeris is because she posed as a threat to him, he wanted to smash a meteor into the planet because he knew the planet would gush with the lifestream and if he could get all that power he -could- become a god, and with his thinkings, Gods can get into the promised land because they're as holy and pure as the ancients once were.

He wanted to destroy the planet, not the promised land, In his head these are two different things. Go back to the game, disc one perferably and read his ramblings in depth about how "Clouds ancestors ran and hid in shelters while the ancients fought" and what not, He hates the 'impurities' living because they are not good enough to make it into the Promised Land, only the ancients. And no one can say "Well he killed Aeris and she was an ancient" yeah she was, but Sephiroth -was- human, so she posed as a threat, he killed her as simple as that.

The idea of 'promised Land' can be interperted by the gamer, it's not like you could look on the world map for 'promised land' and find it, it's obviously not the lifestream because as we saw with cloud, that doesn't really help to much. My idea of the 'Promised Land' is much like Heaven should be, the purest get in. Ironically in FF7 the lifestream was as pure as you get, and if Sephiroth could use that he could get in the promised land. I don't believe the planet itself was the promised land by anymeans.

And since all the Ancients are dead, that would mean everyone on the planet is unpure and must be destroyed. The frapping planet is the promised land, or it's lifestream at any rate. He's a prime example of misanthropy, so anything he says should include that fact. SEPHIROTH WAS NEVER WHOLLY HUMAN!!!!!! He was a half-alien, thus, he wan't human! There is no 'anceints' and 'non-anceints'-technically they're all the same. The Cetra however were telepathically gifted and were able to communicate with the planet because of this. If you destroy the planet then you destroy it's lifestream=destroying the promised land. You can't have one with out the other. Whoope sephiroth, real good move on your part!!!-_-. Give me a break.
And following your idea of heaven, that should mean all children and unborn babies should get in. They don't. They go in Limbo. Your vision is flawed.

I agree with you about Sephiroth, but about the Promised Land, the Omega Guide say that the Promised Land is a mistery. The Cetra think that is the Lifestream, but Shinra and Sephiroth think that is the Northern Crater. Each person have their own interpretation of what is the PL, but no one know what trully is.
Resuming, the UOG don't guive us an answer about it, meaning that any interpretation is valid.

And Avarice-ness, this is a quote from the game:

Temple of the Ancients

Sephiroth:... Ah, but i have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.


Do you know what that means Avarice-ness? That means that he have the knowledge of the Cetra, the knowledge about Jenova's true nature. He is not a Cetra and he don't want to reach the Promised Land, because the UOG said that to Sephiroth, the Promised Land was the Northern Crater(that he already reached).

Do you know what that means, Avarice-ness?
That means that you just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth right there. Thanks for playing!

[Avarice-ness]

Yes, I do hear myself, and I am a MIGHTY GOD. Not just good. He didn't want it all for himself, if you remember his insane rantings about how the not pure people (basically everyone other than the ancients which is.. basically everyone 'cept Aeris) would destroy the promised land because of their impurities, He wanted all of them to die because they didn't deserve to go to the promised land. Kill all the impurities, in his head, You'd only have him by default. The reason he killed Aeris is because she posed as a threat to him, he wanted to smash a meteor into the planet because he knew the planet would gush with the lifestream and if he could get all that power he -could- become a god, and with his thinkings, Gods can get into the promised land because they're as holy and pure as the ancients once were.

He wanted to destroy the planet, not the promised land, In his head these are two different things. Go back to the game, disc one perferably and read his ramblings in depth about how "Clouds ancestors ran and hid in shelters while the ancients fought" and what not, He hates the 'impurities' living because they are not good enough to make it into the Promised Land, only the ancients. And no one can say "Well he killed Aeris and she was an ancient" yeah she was, but Sephiroth -was- human, so she posed as a threat, he killed her as simple as that.

The idea of 'promised Land' can be interperted by the gamer, it's not like you could look on the world map for 'promised land' and find it, it's obviously not the lifestream because as we saw with cloud, that doesn't really help to much. My idea of the 'Promised Land' is much like Heaven should be, the purest get in. Ironically in FF7 the lifestream was as pure as you get, and if Sephiroth could use that he could get in the promised land. I don't believe the planet itself was the promised land by anymeans.

And since all the Ancients are dead, that would mean everyone on the planet is unpure and must be destroyed. The frapping planet is the promised land, or it's lifestream at any rate. He's a prime example of misanthropy, so anything he says should include that fact. SEPHIROTH WAS NEVER WHOLLY HUMAN!!!!!! He was a half-alien, thus, he wan't human! There is no 'anceints' and 'non-anceints'-technically they're all the same. The Cetra however were telepathically gifted and were able to communicate with the planet because of this. If you destroy the planet then you destroy it's lifestream=destroying the promised land. You can't have one with out the other. Whoope sephiroth, real good move on your part!!!-_-. Give me a break.
And following your idea of heaven, that should mean all children and unborn babies should get in. They don't. They go in Limbo. Your vision is flawed.

I agree with you about Sephiroth, but about the Promised Land, the Omega Guide say that the Promised Land is a mistery. The Cetra think that is the Lifestream, but Shinra and Sephiroth think that is the Northern Crater. Each person have their own interpretation of what is the PL, but no one know what trully is.
Resuming, the UOG don't guive us an answer about it, meaning that any interpretation is valid.

And Avarice-ness, this is a quote from the game:

Temple of the Ancients

Sephiroth:... Ah, but i have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.


Do you know what that means Avarice-ness? That means that he have the knowledge of the Cetra, the knowledge about Jenova's true nature. He is not a Cetra and he don't want to reach the Promised Land, because the UOG said that to Sephiroth, the Promised Land was the Northern Crater(that he already reached).

Do you know what that means, Avarice-ness?
That means that you just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth right there. Thanks for playing!

Maybe it's because when I see the fact Sephiroth is 'one' with Jenova is all based off the cells he has in him, It tends to make me wonder if I get a liver implant from someone, get their blood and what not, am I then their sister? Do I get another way awesome parent because we share the same, now unatural blood? No, I'm still pretty sure the one's who birthed me are my parents regardless if I had a liver and blood of another. Sephiroth -says- he's superior, last time I checked 98% of these people say he's insane, and last time I checked, you don't believe insane people.
Testing made him crazy, testing with jenova cells, but he isn't from another planet, or half of anything. He was born human and tested on.
I don't consider failed test subjects to be anything higher than what they are, even if they -know- as much as a dead race. (I say failed, because regardless, Cloud was seen as a failed experiment and.. Omg! Destroys him!)
Try to look at this with as much normal logic as you can, instead of what video games tell you, and remember, Don't believe the crazy guy or we're all screwed.

[Firo Volondé]

And since all the Ancients are dead, that would mean everyone on the planet is unpure and must be destroyed. The frapping planet is the promised land, or it's lifestream at any rate. He's a prime example of misanthropy, so anything he says should include that fact. SEPHIROTH WAS NEVER WHOLLY HUMAN!!!!!! He was a half-alien, thus, he wan't human! There is no 'anceints' and 'non-anceints'-technically they're all the same. The Cetra however were telepathically gifted and were able to communicate with the planet because of this. If you destroy the planet then you destroy it's lifestream=destroying the promised land. You can't have one with out the other. Whoope sephiroth, real good move on your part!!!-_-. Give me a break.
And following your idea of heaven, that should mean all children and unborn babies should get in. They don't. They go in Limbo. Your vision is flawed.

I agree with you about Sephiroth, but about the Promised Land, the Omega Guide say that the Promised Land is a mistery. The Cetra think that is the Lifestream, but Shinra and Sephiroth think that is the Northern Crater. Each person have their own interpretation of what is the PL, but no one know what trully is.
Resuming, the UOG don't guive us an answer about it, meaning that any interpretation is valid.

And Avarice-ness, this is a quote from the game:

Temple of the Ancients

Sephiroth:... Ah, but i have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.


Do you know what that means Avarice-ness? That means that he have the knowledge of the Cetra, the knowledge about Jenova's true nature. He is not a Cetra and he don't want to reach the Promised Land, because the UOG said that to Sephiroth, the Promised Land was the Northern Crater(that he already reached).

Do you know what that means, Avarice-ness?
That means that you just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth right there. Thanks for playing!

Dragon Mage, you said:
A) that Sephiroth was never wholly human, when he was the son of Hojo and Lucrecia
B) That there are no 'ancients' and 'non-ancients'. Regular humans were the Cetra who stopped listening to the Planet, which makes a clear distinction between Cetra and non-Cetra.
C) implied that Sephiroth was trying to destroy the Planet, which would destroy the Lifestream and so destroy the Promised Land, which was his other aim. The Omega Guide states that the Promised Land is a mystery (as opposed to a 'mistery'), and so it was entirely possible to destroy the Lifestream and not the Promised Land.
D) that children and unborn babies go to Limbo. How do you know how the universe works?
It looks like you've just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth (and the nature of the universe) right there. Thanks for playing!

The Crystal, you quoted and agreed with A) and C). You, too, have just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth right there. Thanks for playing!

[Emerald weapon]

Sephiroth is Hojos and Lecrecias son he was injected with Jenova cells while in the womb,the promised land is the northern cave because of the energy being gatherd because of the''crisies from the sky'',his goal was to repeat the ''crises from the sky'' incident on a larger scale because when the planet suffers a wound it gathers energy and sephiroth would be in the middle of the wound collecting energy and finally becoming a god.Some of you might be wondering''hey wait sephiroth was sleeping in the north crater until metor had crashed but metor was going to crash into Midgar,so how can he collect the energy''but i can only speculate that he would have ''woken up'' and went into the energy and to finish with Sephiroth IS human he is like cloud,a shinra experiment but on a more extreme scale

[The Crystal]

And since all the Ancients are dead, that would mean everyone on the planet is unpure and must be destroyed. The frapping planet is the promised land, or it's lifestream at any rate. He's a prime example of misanthropy, so anything he says should include that fact. SEPHIROTH WAS NEVER WHOLLY HUMAN!!!!!! He was a half-alien, thus, he wan't human! There is no 'anceints' and 'non-anceints'-technically they're all the same. The Cetra however were telepathically gifted and were able to communicate with the planet because of this. If you destroy the planet then you destroy it's lifestream=destroying the promised land. You can't have one with out the other. Whoope sephiroth, real good move on your part!!!-_-. Give me a break.
And following your idea of heaven, that should mean all children and unborn babies should get in. They don't. They go in Limbo. Your vision is flawed.

I agree with you about Sephiroth, but about the Promised Land, the Omega Guide say that the Promised Land is a mistery. The Cetra think that is the Lifestream, but Shinra and Sephiroth think that is the Northern Crater. Each person have their own interpretation of what is the PL, but no one know what trully is.
Resuming, the UOG don't guive us an answer about it, meaning that any interpretation is valid.

And Avarice-ness, this is a quote from the game:

Temple of the Ancients

Sephiroth:... Ah, but i have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.


Do you know what that means Avarice-ness? That means that he have the knowledge of the Cetra, the knowledge about Jenova's true nature. He is not a Cetra and he don't want to reach the Promised Land, because the UOG said that to Sephiroth, the Promised Land was the Northern Crater(that he already reached).

Do you know what that means, Avarice-ness?
That means that you just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth right there. Thanks for playing!

Dragon Mage, you said:
A) that Sephiroth was never wholly human, when he was the son of Hojo and Lucrecia
B) That there are no 'ancients' and 'non-ancients'. Regular humans were the Cetra who stopped listening to the Planet, which makes a clear distinction between Cetra and non-Cetra.
C) implied that Sephiroth was trying to destroy the Planet, which would destroy the Lifestream and so destroy the Promised Land, which was his other aim. The Omega Guide states that the Promised Land is a mystery (as opposed to a 'mistery'), and so it was entirely possible to destroy the Lifestream and not the Promised Land.
D) that children and unborn babies go to Limbo. How do you know how the universe works?
It looks like you've just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth (and the nature of the universe) right there. Thanks for playing!

The Crystal, you quoted and agreed with A) and C). You, too, have just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth right there. Thanks for playing!

A) When i said "I agree with you about Sephiroth" i was talking about, Sephiroth trying to destroy the world and don't wanting to reach the PL. I agree with this. I never talked about Sephiroth's nature, because this is about interpretation. Some people belive that he is a Jenova/human and others don't.

C)

The Shin-Ra interpreted that a land of supreme happiness must be somewhere where they could find abundant mako [as it would make them even more wealthy], and wished to use an Ancient to help them find it, while Sephiroth considered the Promised Land to be a place in which he could draw the power to use the Black Materia in his aim to become a "god." Though both of them had different goals, they both got the idea that the Northern Crater was the place they were looking for.

Sephiroth was not trying to reach the Promised Land, because in his mind, he was in the Promised Land(Northern Crater) during all the game.


Read the UOG, and then talk to me again, okay?

[Goldenboko]

Who are the Ultimania Guides written by? If it is anyone other then Square I'm going to laugh.

[Ryushikaze]

Who are the Ultimania Guides written by? If it is anyone other then Square I'm going to laugh.

Square wrote them.

[Goldenboko]

Who are the Ultimania Guides written by? If it is anyone other then Square I'm going to laugh.

Square wrote them.

Good. With that said I feel the Ultimania Guides ruin the games. It takes away the expirence of you getting to imagine certain things which is why I try and forget they exist.

[Avarice-ness]

Who are the Ultimania Guides written by? If it is anyone other then Square I'm going to laugh.

Square wrote them.

Good. With that said I feel the Ultimania Guides ruin the games. It takes away the expirence of you getting to imagine certain things which is why I try and forget they exist.

I think that just because a game gets popular, that doesn't mean they need to start writing indepth essays about what the game was about, if they wanted to add all this indepth stuff in, put it in the game. I played the game the day it came out, I've had an idea the day it came out and it all came from playing a game, not reading things square added in via book instead of video game. In my opinion, anything outside of things in the gameplay isn't worth it, so if they -EVER- remake it (Hopefully not. e e) then they might as well add in all the things they figured they'd tell you in guides. Adding to a good story doesn't make it better, it can make it worse or it can make it drag on, oddly enough Square did both! :D

[The Crystal]

Who are the Ultimania Guides written by? If it is anyone other then Square I'm going to laugh.

Square wrote them.

Good. With that said I feel the Ultimania Guides ruin the games. It takes away the expirence of you getting to imagine certain things which is why I try and forget they exist.

I think that just because a game gets popular, that doesn't mean they need to start writing indepth essays about what the game was about, if they wanted to add all this indepth stuff in, put it in the game. I played the game the day it came out, I've had an idea the day it came out and it all came from playing a game, not reading things square added in via book instead of video game. In my opinion, anything outside of things in the gameplay isn't worth it, so if they -EVER- remake it (Hopefully not. e e) then they might as well add in all the things they figured they'd tell you in guides. Adding to a good story doesn't make it better, it can make it worse or it can make it drag on, oddly enough Square did both! :D

So, you ignore what SE say about the game, and then you say something like "You just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth right there"?! And what credibility you have?! You are deliberatly ignoring the facts!

[DrthTater]

Kefka also has one unique claim to fame. Unlike any other Final Fantasy villain, such as Sephiroth or Kuja, Kefka succeeded in what he set out to do. In fact, he may be one of the only RPG villains in history that actually manages to succeed in his goals, destroying the world and becoming a god. It is his second, not his first, set of plans that the player ends up foiling.

[The Crystal]

Kefka also has one unique claim to fame. Unlike any other Final Fantasy villain, such as Sephiroth or Kuja, Kefka succeeded in what he set out to do. In fact, he may be one of the only RPG villains in history that actually manages to succeed in his goals, destroying the world and becoming a god. It is his second, not his first, set of plans that the player ends up foiling.

Kuja succeeded in his first set of plans, Sephiroth suceeded in becoming a god in AC and Yu Yevon succeeded even before the adventure started.
And everyone know that, when we are talking about success, Delita wins.

If i want to, i can write in Wikipedia that Kefka is the most weak character in fiction.

[Dragon Mage]

Dragon Mage, you said:
A) that Sephiroth was never wholly human, when he was Spoiler: the son of Hojo and Lucrecia
B) That there are no 'ancients' and 'non-ancients'. Regular humans were the Cetra who stopped listening to the Planet, which makes a clear distinction between Cetra and non-Cetra.
C) implied that Sephiroth was trying to destroy the Planet, which would destroy the Lifestream and so destroy the Promised Land, which was his other aim. The Omega Guide states that the Promised Land is a mystery (as opposed to a 'mistery'), and so it was entirely possible to destroy the Lifestream and not the Promised Land.
D) that children and unborn babies go to Limbo. How do you know how the universe works?
It looks like you've just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth (and the nature of the universe) right there. Thanks for playing!

The Crystal, you quoted and agreed with A) and C). You, too, have just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth right there. Thanks for playing!

1) Yes, he was a human but not wholly human. To be exact, he had alien DNA mixed into his otherwise wholly human DNA. The two mixed about equally. So he isn't human but he isn't alien either. He's a bastard half-breed, if you want to think of it that way.
2) If you're saying that Cetra and humans are two completley different spieces, you are mistaken. They are the same race, but just different in one way. Like black people and non-blacks. Both are human, both are different. The Cetra were not their own seperate race.
3) Well, if he thought the Crater was the PL then that would be destroying the PL, now wouldn't it? Besides, he must have had some idea of what the PL was, and that it was on the Planet, or else he would never have had the need to destroy the humans by destroying their planet so that they couldn't get to it.
4) The bible tells me so. Ha.

Are you an Astrophysicist ? I didn't think so. So how the hell would you know how the frappin' universe works? And unless you have lived with Sephiroth or are a telepath and can read his frappin' mind, you have no credibility either. What we're doing here is plain conjecture with some facts that won't back up half of what we're saying. Now, you try and make yourself the almighty god of this thread and try to convince yourself that you are right, without a doubt, I will sick the flying monkeys on you. Fear the monkeys.

[Goldenboko]

Kefka also has one unique claim to fame. Unlike any other Final Fantasy villain, such as Sephiroth or Kuja, Kefka succeeded in what he set out to do. In fact, he may be one of the only RPG villains in history that actually manages to succeed in his goals, destroying the world and becoming a god. It is his second, not his first, set of plans that the player ends up foiling.

Kuja succeeded in his first set of plans, Sephiroth suceeded in becoming a god in AC and Yu Yevon succeeded even before the adventure started.
And everyone know that, when we are talking about success, Delita wins.

If i want to, i can write in Wikipedia that Kefka is the most weak character in fiction.

And it will be fixed. Wikipedia has a very good moderating team, although not everyone knows that. And don't try and compare Seph's feats to Kefka's they don't compare because Sephiroth wanted to absorb the lifestream, didn't happen did it? Kefka wanted to destroy the world, and that did happen. The World of Ruin was basically a destroyed planet, life was fading rapidly.

[The Crystal]

And it will be fixed. Wikipedia has a very good moderating team, although not everyone knows that.

I didn't know that. Interesting...


And don't try and compare Seph's feats to Kefka's they don't compare because Sephiroth wanted to absorb the lifestream, didn't happen did it? Kefka wanted to destroy the world, and that did happen. The World of Ruin was basically a destroyed planet, life was fading rapidly.

Sephiroth wanted to controll the Lifestream. In FFVII he thought that the best way to do it, was absorbing it, but he failed. BUT in AC he thought that the best way to do it, was corrupting it, and he succeeded.
If we are only talking about the original games, i agree wit you. But if we are talking about the entire story of the two universes, than Sephiroth succeeded.

But in the end both of them losed.
Kefka didn't succeeded, the only successfull villain in FF history, is Delita.

[Goldenboko]

And it will be fixed. Wikipedia has a very good moderating team, although not everyone knows that.

I didn't know that. Interesting...


And don't try and compare Seph's feats to Kefka's they don't compare because Sephiroth wanted to absorb the lifestream, didn't happen did it? Kefka wanted to destroy the world, and that did happen. The World of Ruin was basically a destroyed planet, life was fading rapidly.

Sephiroth wanted to controll the Lifestream. In FFVII he thought that the best way to do it, was absorbing it, but he failed. BUT in AC he thought that the best way to do it, was corrupting it, and he succeeded.
If we are only talking about the original games, i agree wit you. But if we are talking about the entire story of the two universes, than Sephiroth succeeded.

But in the end both of them losed.
Kefka didn't succeeded, the only successfull villain in FF history, is Delita.

Prepare for a couple seconds of off-topicness.

Isn't a bit clear that Kefka should've won though? He didn't spot them coming for him? He could oblitorate towns but can crush a few mortals? It makes no sense.

Kefka's original plan was to become a god, and have a reign of fear. He got that. When he decided to exteriminate all life he was stopped.

[Forsaken Lover]

For all his powers, Sephiroth was horribly weak. For "accomplishing" becoming a god, Kefka and Kuja would destroy him.

[Firo Volondé]

For all his powers, Sephiroth was horribly weak. For "accomplishing" becoming a god, Kefka and Kuja would destroy him.

Sephiroth could summon Meteor, though, which kind of evens things out.

[Ryushikaze]

For all his powers, Sephiroth was horribly weak. For "accomplishing" becoming a god, Kefka and Kuja would destroy him.

Sephiroth could summon Meteor, though, which kind of evens things out.

And Kuja could Zot it out of the sky, greatly imbalancing things in Kuja's favor again.

[The Crystal]

Kuja's powers are because of the souls of the Invincible. Sephiroth can corrupt these souls and kill Kuja.


For all his powers, Sephiroth was horribly weak.

Considering the fact that we didn't see what is the true power of AC Sephiroth, and that he was destroying the entire world with his tainted Lifestream(the dark clouds) in the end of the movie, how you can say that he was weak? Sorry dude, but Kefka and Kuja aren't anymore the only two in FF series that can destroy a world. Sephiroth can too.


Isn't a bit clear that Kefka should've won though? He didn't spot them coming for him? He could oblitorate towns but can crush a few mortals? It makes no sense.

They deffeated him, in the same way that Zidane and his friends could deffeat a planet buster, or Bartz and his friends could deffeat the Void. They have powerfull attacks, and the super powerfull gods have a limited number of HP. In story-wise this don't make sense, but this is the way that things work in RPGs.

[Dragon Mage]

You guys, corrupting the Lifestream wasn't his idea. It was Jenovas idea, and like a proper momma's boy, he did exactly as his 'mother' did before him. Sheesh. The idiot can't even come up with something original. And when he does, it doesn't even work. Wow. Now isn't that something to be proud of!


I stopped reading once I read the thing that almost 99% of people know, and apparently you didn't.
A shame since you obviously don't know what the hell your blathering on about at all. In the frappin' game Cloud said "Protect the Promised Land?! No way!! I know him. That's not what he's like." Or something to that affect, I pretty sure I messed up on the last 2 lines. So just what the hell are you saying, 'He wanted to protect the PL'. Bullcrap. Go get your facts straight, then get into an argument. Until then don't waste my time.

To sum it all up Sephiroth is not the best villian in the series. Admittadly, I could take him more seriously than I could a giant, flying, telekinetic whale.

[Avarice-ness]

You guys, corrupting the Lifestream wasn't his idea. It was Jenovas idea, and like a proper momma's boy, he did exactly as his 'mother' did before him. Sheesh. The idiot can't even come up with something original. And when he does, it doesn't even work. Wow. Now isn't that something to be proud of!


I stopped reading once I read the thing that almost 99% of people know, and apparently you didn't.
A shame since you obviously don't know what the hell your blathering on about at all. In the frappin' game Cloud said "Protect the Promised Land?! No way!! I know him. That's not what he's like." Or something to that affect, I pretty sure I messed up on the last 2 lines. So just what the hell are you saying, 'He wanted to protect the PL'. Bullcrap. Go get your facts straight, then get into an argument. Until then don't waste my time.

To sum it all up Sephiroth is not the best villian in the series. Admittadly, I could take him more seriously than I could a giant, flying, telekinetic whale.

The comment you quoted was about you saying Sephiroth was half-alien, not anything to do with the promised land argument, Hence I said I was going to stop reading.

Plus I'm having a wonderful time watching you people bicker, because even the ones that 'know' so much end up arguing with the other ones who 'know' so much. *eats popcorn* :D

[Tg.cid]

Sephiroth is an okay villan but not the best he is a F*** mama's boy.




gohttp://www.battleon.com/Images/banners/Ad-120x600-Galanoth-v2.gifod
www.battleon.com
:tonberry: :beer: :trout:

[Forsaken Lover]

Kuja's powers are because of the souls of the Invincible. Sephiroth can corrupt these souls and kill Kuja.

Not even remotely true. Not by a long shot. The Lifestream is a collection of Spirit Energy. Which is different from souls because every “soul” joins it. That is what Sephiroth can control. Individual souls in other people he showed absolutely no power over.


Considering the fact that we didn't see what is the true power of AC Sephiroth, and that he was destroying the entire world with his tainted Lifestream(the dark clouds) in the end of the movie, how you can say that he was weak? Sorry dude, but Kefka and Kuja aren't anymore the only two in FF series that can destroy a world. Sephiroth can too.

Oh no! DARK CLOUDS!! Are the clouds spitting lightning that destroys cities? No? Well, are they causing torrential raint hat will drown everything in existence? No? Well....they look good. Which is what Sephiroth is all about; looks.


They deffeated him, in the same way that Zidane and his friends could deffeat a planet buster, or Bartz and his friends could deffeat the Void. They have powerfull attacks, and the super powerfull gods have a limited number of HP. In story-wise this don't make sense, but this is the way that things work in RPGs.
Last edited by The Crystal : 11-25-2006 at 11:15 AM.

Definitely right here. RPGS heroes are constantly overcoming beings they should have no chance of beating. It’s what makes an RPG, an RPG. ::)

[chrisfffan]

This thread has been going for some time now and I think the top 3 not in any order are Sephiroth, Kefka and Kuja nobody’s going to argue about that are they???

[YTDN]

This thread has been going for some time now and I think the top 3 not in any order are Sephiroth, Kefka and Kuja nobody’s going to argue about that are they???

The point is, though, we're all gonna keep arguing about which of the three are THE BEST. That's what we're like.

[Crop]

This thread has been going for some time now and I think the top 3 not in any order are Sephiroth, Kefka and Kuja nobody’s going to argue about that are they???

I am. Im a Rufus man "fo lyf!"

[chrisfffan]

Rufus was a side villain he wasn’t the main bad guy so I don’t think he can be compared to the others

[The Crystal]

Not even remotely true. Not by a long shot. The Lifestream is a collection of Spirit Energy. Which is different from souls because every “soul” joins it. That is what Sephiroth can control. Individual souls in other people he showed absolutely no power over.

What i understanded, was that people were infected by Jenova, and then the body tryed to destroy it, creating Geostigma in the process. The soul was corrupted by Jenova and than the person die. When the soul return to the Lifestream, the soul is already corrupted. Than another corrupted soul join in, and another, and another, etc. In the end(after two years) this many corrupted souls formed the corrupted Lifestream.
Sephiroth needed two years to do it, because he could only corrupt each soul one by one. But in the end of the movie he don't have this limitation anymore(but he can corrupt just one soul if he want).


Oh no! DARK CLOUDS!! Are the clouds spitting lightning that destroys cities? No? Well, are they causing torrential raint hat will drown everything in existence? No? Well....they look good. Which is what Sephiroth is all about; looks.

This is a joke right? You understanded that they really aren't dark clouds right? They are corrupted Lifestream. The same corrupted Lifestream that Sephiroth would use to destroy all life in the world, and transform the planet in a "space ship" to travel the universe.
In the begin of the fight, you can see the "clouds" descending(like "tentacles"). What do you think that it would do? Destroy the planet, of course!

[Avarice-ness]

This thread has been going for some time now and I think the top 3 not in any order are Sephiroth, Kefka and Kuja nobody’s going to argue about that are they???

It'll just keep going like that. For Every valid reason someone has for Kefka or Kuja being the best bad guy in the VIDEO GAME, someone will prolly -always- have a reason why Sephiroth could kill them, be it in the video game or not.

[Crop]

Rufus was a side villain he wasn’t the main bad guy so I don’t think he can be compared to the others

Yes he can. Rufus Pwns all.

[Forsaken Lover]

What i understanded, was that people were infected by Jenova, and then the body tryed to destroy it, creating Geostigma in the process. The soul was corrupted by Jenova and than the person die. When the soul return to the Lifestream, the soul is already corrupted. Than another corrupted soul join in, and another, and another, etc. In the end(after two years) this many corrupted souls formed the corrupted Lifestream.
Sephiroth needed two years to do it, because he could only corrupt each soul one by one. But in the end of the movie he don't have this limitation anymore(but he can corrupt just one soul if he want).


But that’s different. Jenova cells infect the Lifestream that is in our body. Every person in the FFVII world has some tiny bit of the Lifestream in their body and they get Geostigma when that Lifestream in their body tries to fight off the foreign Jenova cells. So, Jenova cells do not directly infect a person’s soul because the soul of a person in the FFVII world is not like a soul of a person in another game or universe.


This is a joke right? You understanded that they really aren't dark clouds right? They are corrupted Lifestream. The same corrupted Lifestream that Sephiroth would use to destroy all life in the world, and transform the planet in a "space ship" to travel the universe.

Okay? So it’s corrupted Lifestream. What does it do? Absolutely nothing. What it COULD do is somewhat impressive but as it did nothing, it is nothing but a backdrop in the fight.


n the begin of the fight, you can see the "clouds" descending(like "tentacles"). What do you think that it would do? Destroy the planet, of course!

Would’ve, should’ve, could’ve. Didn’t. Villains boast. For all we know his plans would have fallen apart miserably and everything would die pointlessly. What actual evidence is there to support what he said was true?

Honestly. He had goals...didn’t come close to achieving them or doing half of what Kuja and Kefka did. For being a “god” in AC, he did nothing and yes, he may have been holding back but he still was defeated. So was Kefka and Kuja but they needed the entire party to defeat them and Kuja actually “killed” the party before losing. It took Cloud and his flashy swords to beat “god” Sephiroth.

[The Crystal]

Okay? So it’s corrupted Lifestream. What does it do? Absolutely nothing. What it COULD do is somewhat impressive but as it did nothing, it is nothing but a backdrop in the fight.
Would’ve, should’ve, could’ve. Didn’t. Villains boast. For all we know his plans would have fallen apart miserably and everything would die pointlessly. What actual evidence is there to support what he said was true?

To understand Sephiroth's true power in AC, you have to understand what is the Lifestream. It is the source of all magic and life in the FFVII universe. Sephiroth could corrupt AND controll it. If he isn't a god, i don't know what he is.
And the Lifestream have a great power of destruction(like was showed to us, in "On a Way to a Smile"). The corrupted Lifestream is more powerfull than the pure one, meaning that he(Sephiroth) can use it to destroy an entire planet if he want.


Honestly. He had goals...didn’t come close to achieving them or doing half of what Kuja and Kefka did. For being a “god” in AC, he did nothing and yes, he may have been holding back but he still was defeated. So was Kefka and Kuja but they needed the entire party to defeat them and Kuja actually “killed” the party before losing. It took Cloud and his flashy swords to beat “god” Sephiroth.

Remove the "" of the word "god". He was litterally a god in AC, there is no discussion about it. The Reunion Files say that he is the most powerfull being in the FFVII universe(including beings like Omega Weapon).
He was only deffeated because he decided to play with Cloud. For example, let's say that in the final battle of FFVI, Kefka decided to have a physical fight(without using any magic) against one of the heros, and in this fight he was deffeated. That means that he isn't a god? Of course not! That only means that he didn't use all his powers, and losed because of this. This is exactly what happened with Sephiroth in AC.

[YTDN]

He was only deffeated because he decided to play with Cloud. For example, let's say that in the final battle of FFVI, Kefka decided to have a physical fight(without using any magic) against one of the heros, and in this fight he was deffeated. That means that he isn't a god? Of course not! That only means that he didn't use all his powers, and losed because of this. This is exactly what happened with Sephiroth in AC.

Well that means he's just stupid. What kind of villain decides to play with the main hero, and then floats in the air looking shocked while the hero slices him up with some new super move?

[Goldenboko]

in the begin of the fight, you can see the "clouds" descending(like "tentacles"). What do you think that it would do? Destroy the planet, of course!
I always assumed they added in the Clouds for looks :p. None of this stuff is mentioned in the movie, therefore in my opinion it takes away from the credit, its just stuff added in after to try and make things sound cool.

[The Crystal]

He was only deffeated because he decided to play with Cloud. For example, let's say that in the final battle of FFVI, Kefka decided to have a physical fight(without using any magic) against one of the heros, and in this fight he was deffeated. That means that he isn't a god? Of course not! That only means that he didn't use all his powers, and losed because of this. This is exactly what happened with Sephiroth in AC.

Well that means he's just stupid. What kind of villain decides to play with the main hero, and then floats in the air looking shocked while the hero slices him up with some new super move?

I agree. In AC his arrogance is so great, that he become stupid. But we have to remember that he is not really stupid, he is only that way with Cloud. Sephiroth hate Cloud so much, that instead of just killing him(like he do with any other person), he prefer to try to humiliate Cloud, and because of this, end giving an opening to Cloud attack and kill him.
Sephiroth's hate for Cloud, blind him.


I always assumed they added in the Clouds for looks . None of this stuff is mentioned in the movie, therefore in my opinion it takes away from the credit, its just stuff added in after to try and make things sound cool.

MANY things aren't mentioned in the movie, this is why SE created the Reunion Files.

[Avarice-ness]

I always assumed they added in the Clouds for looks . None of this stuff is mentioned in the movie, therefore in my opinion it takes away from the credit, its just stuff added in after to try and make things sound cool.

MANY things aren't mentioned in the movie, this is why SE created the Reunion Files.[/QUOTE]

And this is why there will be MANY more FFVII related things, SE makes money, You people get more out of game reasons to like the game. I say, until they remake FFVII and add every bit they added after the game was made, every fact should be from gameplay, not what SE keeps adding for flash and to make some people "ohh" and "Ahh"

[Ryushikaze]

I always assumed they added in the Clouds for looks . None of this stuff is mentioned in the movie, therefore in my opinion it takes away from the credit, its just stuff added in after to try and make things sound cool.

MANY things aren't mentioned in the movie, this is why SE created the Reunion Files.

And this is why there will be MANY more FFVII related things, SE makes money, You people get more out of game reasons to like the game. I say, until they remake FFVII and add every bit they added after the game was made, every fact should be from gameplay, not what SE keeps adding for flash and to make some people "ohh" and "Ahh"

My, isn't that an arbitrary standard. In that case, I say we should only count what I saw when I played on a Tuesday to be fact.

SE made it, gave it their stamp of approval and shipped it out. That makes it official, and if it has the FF7 stamp, it's FF7 legal, unless stated otherwise or retconned.

[Forsaken Lover]

Well, Kuja once going into Trance was a demi-god and he'd destroy AC Sephiroth. As would the following:

1. Hulk Hogan
2. Albedo
3. Any of the Testaments
4. KOS-MOS
5. Id
6. Kain (LoK)
7. Raziel (LoK)
8. Lavos
9. Ness
10. Emperor Palpatine of the Star Wars Expanded Universe.

And the list goes on and on.....he's really weak all in all for becoming a god.

[Ryushikaze]

Well, Kuja once going into Trance was a demi-god and he'd destroy AC Sephiroth. As would the following:

1. Hulk Hogan
2. Albedo
3. Any of the Testaments
4. KOS-MOS
5. Id
6. Kain (LoK)
7. Raziel (LoK)
8. Lavos
9. Ness
10. Emperor Palpatine of the Star Wars Expanded Universe.

And the list goes on and on.....he's really weak all in all for becoming a god.

I'm following you on all of that except for Ness.
And to be frank, your average Jedi in the EU (depending on the wank level of the particular story) could kill Sephiroth. Actually, your Average Jedi could do it anyways. Lightsabers and precognition, not to mention the force tend to give one an edge.

And Trance Kuja was a god in his own right. What's this Demi nonsense?

[Forsaken Lover]

Ness is from EarthBound. He's this kid who basically can beat the crap out of one of the most powerful RPG villains of all time who is nothing more than an incorporeal mass of energy with a plain old baseball bat. His psychic powers are also quite immense and Seph has no defense against that.

And you are quite right on the EU Jedi. As for demi-god, it's how I calll him. He may very well have been a god but I've simply gotten into the habit of calling him a demigod. Not many ultra-powerful beings are known as gods, actually from what I've seen. If a villain has tremendous power, people refer to them as demi-gods.

[The Crystal]

he's really weak all in all for becoming a god.

Sephiroth is not so weak. He can controll all magic in FFVII world, and can at least, destroy the surface of a planet.

[feioncastor]

he's really weak all in all for becoming a god.

Sephiroth is not so weak. He can controll all magic in FFVII world, and can at least, destroy the surface of a planet.

It's funny because Kefka is not only able to do that stuff, he actually does it.

Sephiroth isn't really evil. Jenova isn't really evil. Listen to the stuff he says when he kills someone. He talks about them joining the lifestream and all this beautiful afterlife stuff, as if he was trying to better a situation and killed when he cause demanded it.

Look at Kefka. He has no real reason to kill. He has no greater cause. He kills because he likes to watch things die. He just likes to hear the sound of people in agony. He wants to bring despair and completely kill off the idea of hope. When Kefka kills someone, he doesn't get all philosophical "lifestream" or anything. He laughs. And if the game were made with better graphics, you'd probably see him urinating on the person he just killed.

[YTDN]

he's really weak all in all for becoming a god.

Sephiroth is not so weak. He can controll all magic in FFVII world, and can at least, destroy the surface of a planet.

So? Kuja could destroy the entire planet. Kefka controls all the magic in the FFVI world. Ultimecia can control time. Sin can vapourise whole armies. Compared to other FF villains, Sephiroth isn't actually that awesome.

[Forsaken Lover]

Oh come on, man! Can't you see the awesomeness and power of Sephiroth? Well, maybe if you put him next to Shuyin, Heidegger and Queen Brahne...THEN you can see the total immensity of his evil and power. Especially Shuyin. Next to Shuyin, Sephiroth is Satan.

But, then you put him alongside to Kefka and he's more along the lines of a tiny yelping poodle next to a full-grown and ravenous boxer. One won't shut up and probably could nip your ankle. The other won't shut up and will rip your throat out.

[feioncastor]

And Sephiroth's ever famous "Supernova" (which takes way too long to happen) can't actually kill anyone, unlike Kefka's Goner or Zeromus's Big Bang.

Especially Big Bang. That killed me many times.
SPOILERS AHEAD
Sephiroth isn't that powerful. For one thing, the real Sephiroth is a human like Cloud. I'm pretty sure that Bizarro Sephiroth is actually Jenova. I'm pretty sure that every Sephiroth you see in the game, except in flashbacks, is actually Jenova because I think Cloud threw Sephiroth into a Mako Reactor before the game chronologically begins.

And the Sephiroth you actually see isn't really that great either. When you fight him at the end, he's sort of tough, but he isn't that strong in comparison to other FF final bosses (*cough* Zeromus *cough*).

And apart from the actual fight itself, Sephiroth's power isn't that great. He can try to summon a meteor to hit the planet, but Kefka would use his flame of Judgement to toast Sephiroth, where ever he was at on the planet, and then he'd just let the meteor hit the planet since he likes stuff dying anyway.

[Avarice-ness]

Oh come on, man! Can't you see the awesomeness and power of Sephiroth? Well, maybe if you put him next to Shuyin, Heidegger and Queen Brahne...THEN you can see the total immensity of his evil and power. Especially Shuyin. Next to Shuyin, Sephiroth is Satan.

But, then you put him alongside to Kefka and he's more along the lines of a tiny yelping poodle next to a full-grown and ravenous boxer. One won't shut up and probably could nip your ankle. The other won't shut up and will rip your throat out.

Oh -that- was awesome. I have this undying need to draw Sephy Poodle and Kefka Boxer. You my friend have made my day. :)

[feioncastor]

I just realized something.

Okay, you know how Supernova can't kill you?

Well, here's what I was thinking. What if Sephy went up against Chupon/Typoon? First, Sephiroth would use Supernova, weakening the heck of Chupon, but definitely not killing him.

And then..... Chupon would Sneeze Sephiroth out of the battle, which technically counts as a loss because if that happens in the Colleseum, you lose your bid.

Even so, being the "best" villian doesn't mean being the most powerful. Look at Ultros. Is he the most powerful? No. But is the best? Possibly.

Sephiroth's problem isn't his lack of power, because relative to the others living in his world (which doesn't include Kefka), Sephiroth was powerful. It's not his power that I question. It's his motive. He's not killing for the sake of evil and villainy. He's doing it because he thinks it's the right thing do. He's doing what he feels is best. That's not a villain. That's a stupid/crazy person.

[Diango12]

Its common everyone knows Sephiroth is the ultimate BA. There are alot of types of villians theres the insane, the misguided, the manipulative and insedious, and theres Sephiroth the Badass

Sephiroth lost his mind, declared himself a member of the Cetra and decendent of an ancient race that were, in his mind, betrayed by humans, and then flew off half-cocked and razed Nibelheim. He couldn't mentally handle the truth of his origins and instead settled for a distorted version of the truth in which he was meant to become the next "Jenova" and become one with the planet.

He was never the "chosen one" by any means. He was the result of genetic experimentation performed by his psychotic father... artificially endowed with the power of the greatest enemy the Cetra had ever faced.

[The Crystal]

So? Kuja could destroy the entire planet. Kefka controls all the magic in the FFVI world. Ultimecia can control time. Sin can vapourise whole armies. Compared to other FF villains, Sephiroth isn't actually that awesome.

And compared to other villains, Sephiroth is not that weak(like some people are saying). Having controll over magic(Lifestream) in the world, and being capable of destroying the surface of a planet, put him in the same level of Kefka.
And we don't know if Kuja can destroy a planet or only the surface of it.

[Ryushikaze]

So? Kuja could destroy the entire planet. Kefka controls all the magic in the FFVI world. Ultimecia can control time. Sin can vapourise whole armies. Compared to other FF villains, Sephiroth isn't actually that awesome.

And compared to other villains, Sephiroth is not that weak(like some people are saying). Having controll over magic(Lifestream) in the world, and being capable of destroying the surface of a planet, put him in the same level of Kefka.
And we don't know if Kuja can destroy a planet or only the surface of it.

Even if it's the lower figure, planet glassing is hardly something to scoff at, and something neither Kefka or Sephiroth actually completed. Kefka threw the balance largely out of whack in his initial act of shoving the statues about, and given that he didn't totally eradicate planetary life suggests that he was unable to do so for one reason or another (I mean, do you really think Kefka would STOP pointing the Uberlaser at people if he could run it nonstop?). In any case, Kefka managed the destruction in a matter of minutes/hours. Kefka hadn't succeeded after a whole year. Speaks to a major difference in their power outputs.

[Avarice-ness]

So? Kuja could destroy the entire planet. Kefka controls all the magic in the FFVI world. Ultimecia can control time. Sin can vapourise whole armies. Compared to other FF villains, Sephiroth isn't actually that awesome.

And compared to other villains, Sephiroth is not that weak(like some people are saying). Having controll over magic(Lifestream) in the world, and being capable of destroying the surface of a planet, put him in the same level of Kefka.
And we don't know if Kuja can destroy a planet or only the surface of it.

Even if it's the lower figure, planet glassing is hardly something to scoff at, and something neither Kefka or Sephiroth actually completed. Kefka threw the balance largely out of whack in his initial act of shoving the statues about, and given that he didn't totally eradicate planetary life suggests that he was unable to do so for one reason or another (I mean, do you really think Kefka would STOP pointing the Uberlaser at people if he could run it nonstop?). In any case, Kefka managed the destruction in a matter of minutes/hours. Kefka hadn't succeeded after a whole year. Speaks to a major difference in their power outputs.

Ooh, We were just talking about that in the Kefka thread. Actually Kefka only shoots his light of Judgement at towns that don't really see eye to eye with him. If he wanted everyone dead he could have, but he has control issues. No one ever said Kefka wanted to just kill everything, he just wanted to watch things suffer. You can't watch Dead things suffer. :(

[feioncastor]

Ooh, We were just talking about that in the Kefka thread.

That is because all things are about Kefka.

[The Crystal]

Ooh, We were just talking about that in the Kefka thread. Actually Kefka only shoots his light of Judgement at towns that don't really see eye to eye with him. If he wanted everyone dead he could have, but he has control issues. No one ever said Kefka wanted to just kill everything, he just wanted to watch things suffer. You can't watch Dead things suffer. :(

I agree. And what is funny, is that we can use the same argument with Sephiroth. Sephiroth begun the process of destroying the planet in the end of AC, but he would never destroy the planet before making Cloud suffer. Because he cannot watch Cloud's dead body suffer.

In my opinion, both Kefka and Sephiroth(in their most powerfull forms) can destroy the surface of a planet.

[MurderfaceX3]

Yes....end of conversation!

[chrisfffan]

I don’t know about Kefka but with Kuja I never really hated him or the bad guy in X or 8 but with 7 I really wanted to kill Sephiroth more then completing the game, that’s what made him a great villain for me.

[Ryushikaze]

Ooh, We were just talking about that in the Kefka thread. Actually Kefka only shoots his light of Judgement at towns that don't really see eye to eye with him. If he wanted everyone dead he could have, but he has control issues. No one ever said Kefka wanted to just kill everything, he just wanted to watch things suffer. You can't watch Dead things suffer. :(

I agree. And what is funny, is that we can use the same argument with Sephiroth. Sephiroth begun the process of destroying the planet in the end of AC, but he would never destroy the planet before making Cloud suffer. Because he cannot watch Cloud's dead body suffer.

In my opinion, both Kefka and Sephiroth(in their most powerfull forms) can destroy the surface of a planet.

Forgive the bluntness, but smeg your opinion. Evidence is what matters. So, thus, to your statement of surface destroying, I ask A: Over how long a time, and B: To what level destruction, and C: Where's your proof?

[feioncastor]

Well, you'd have to define "destroying the surface of the Earth". Kefka turned two or three continents into about 20. The water isn't blue anymore. The ground is all dirt and dead plants, and you don't see grass growing anywhere.

However, it really doesn't matter which is more powerful because power doesn't make you evil. By the end of FF6, I can tell you that my team was powerful enough to go around the world and kill every human on the planet. But we're not villains, so we don't do that.

Look at President Shinra. He's rather villainous, but he certainly isn't that powerful.

So instead of comparing who would win in a fight, you should be comparing which of the two is a better villain.

[The Crystal]

Forgive the bluntness, but smeg your opinion. Evidence is what matters. So, thus, to your statement of surface destroying, I ask A: Over how long a time, and B: To what level destruction, and C: Where's your proof?

A) We don't know, because Cloud deffeated him, and Aerith destroyed his will(with her holly rain) before he could end the process.

B) He would at least kill all life in the planet, and transform the planet in a "space ship" to travell the cosmos. This is what he said.

C) "On a Way to a Smile" show to us that the pure Lifestream have a great power of destruction(hell, just look at what the Junon Mako(pure Lifestream) Cannon can do in the game). And remember that all magic power of destruction(Materias) is pure Lifestream condensed.
The corrupted Lifestream was more powerfull than the pure one.

The Lifestream is like the Statues of FFVI. All magic and life exist because of it. Who have controll over it, is a god. Sephiroth has controll over it in AC, so, he is a god. Is very simple.

[The Crystal]

Forgive the bluntness, but smeg your opinion. Evidence is what matters. So, thus, to your statement of surface destroying, I ask A: Over how long a time, and B: To what level destruction, and C: Where's your proof?

A) We don't know, because Cloud deffeated him, and Aerith destroyed his will(with her holly rain) before he could end the process.

B) He would at least kill all life in the planet, and transform the planet in a "space ship" to travell the cosmos.

C) "On a Way to a Smile" show to us that the pure Lifestream have a great power of destruction(hell, just look at what the Junon Mako(pure Lifestream) Cannon can do in the game). And remember that all magic power of destruction(Materias) is pure Lifestream condensed.
The corrupted Lifestream was more powerfull than the pure one.

The Lifestream is like the Statues of FFVI. All magic and life exist because of it. Who have controll over it, is a god. Sephiroth has controll over it in AC, so, he is a god. Is very simple.

[Ryushikaze]

Well, you'd have to define "destroying the surface of the Earth". Kefka turned two or three continents into about 20. The water isn't blue anymore. The ground is all dirt and dead plants, and you don't see grass growing anywhere.

Well, much of that isn't too hard to accomplish, and I do recall some lines about tossing the statues around screwing up the planet below, but it's been awhile since my last playthrough of Six. It's also questionable whether the wasting is his direct fault, or a side affect of him attempting to horde magic. Still, people and plants are alive all over the planet, and it seems to restore itself nigh instantly after his death, so it's questionable how devastating his effects actually are.


However, it really doesn't matter which is more powerful because power doesn't make you evil. By the end of FF6, I can tell you that my team was powerful enough to go around the world and kill every human on the planet. But we're not villains, so we don't do that.

Look at President Shinra. He's rather villainous, but he certainly isn't that powerful.

No, but part of the thread swerved off into how powerful each villain might be. I agree that villainy and power are not always synonymous, but having power helps. For example. Imagine if Pres Shinra was just a man in a hut. Wouldn't be very villainous, would he?


So instead of comparing who would win in a fight, you should be comparing which of the two is a better villain.

And that's so horribly subjective that it's almost not worth comparing.


A) We don't know, because Cloud deffeated him, and Aerith destroyed his will(with her holly rain) before he could end the process.

To begin with, I wasn't just referring to Sephypoo. Secondly, Aerith's rain does not seem to have had much, if anything to do with his will dispersing, as it had jack for effect on Kadaj (her voice, on the other hand...). Not to mention, without an established time frame, the wattage of the event, and thus the power, can't be measured.


B) He would at least kill all life in the planet, and transform the planet in a "space ship" to travell the cosmos.

Which tells us nothing about methodology. For as much info as you provide, he could simply be setting off a nuke someone else built. Fortunately, we do know more than what you provided, and from that knowledge, Sephy's plan seems to have been similar to The IIfa tree's, in that he planned on stopping new life by converting corrupted life into things he could control.


C) "On a Way to a Smile" show to us that the pure Lifestream have a great power of destruction(hell, just look at what the Junon Mako(pure Lifestream) Cannon can do in the game). And remember that all magic power of destruction(Materias) is pure Lifestream condensed.
The corrupted Lifestream was more powerfull than the pure one.

Actually, Materia is crystalized knowledge, which allows one to manipulate the lifestream. Small distinction. And source on the Corrupted outpowering the normal?


The Lifestream is like the Statues of FFVI. All magic and life exist because of it. Who have controll over it, is a god. Sephiroth has controll over it in AC, so, he is a god. Is very simple.

Except he does not control all of it, same as Kefka did not control all magic in FF6. Not all gods are created equal. Thor could beat the crap out of Ares, and such.

[The Crystal]

To begin with, I wasn't just referring to Sephypoo. Secondly, Aerith's rain does not seem to have had much, if anything to do with his will dispersing, as it had jack for effect on Kadaj (her voice, on the other hand...). Not to mention, without an established time frame, the wattage of the event, and thus the power, can't be measured.

Aerith's Great Gospel is a cure spell. She can cure people of injuries, Geostigma, etc. The SHM are made of Lifestream corrupted by Sephiroth's will. During the movie, is showed to us that Aerith has much more controll over the Lifestream than during the game(she was more powerfull), and with this power, she destroyed Sephiroth's will over the Lifestream(making the SHM become pure Lifestream again, and disapear). That don't have anything to do with her voice.


Which tells us nothing about methodology. For as much info as you provide, he could simply be setting off a nuke someone else built. Fortunately, we do know more than what you provided, and from that knowledge, Sephy's plan seems to have been similar to The IIfa tree's, in that he planned on stopping new life by converting corrupted life into things he could control.

Yeah, and "these" "things he could control" is the source of all power in the FFVII universe.


Actually, Materia is crystalized knowledge, which allows one to manipulate the lifestream. Small distinction. And source on the Corrupted outpowering the normal?

Normal Lifestream is very powerfull, as a force of destruction and as a power that can cure others(like Aerith did in the movie). But the corrupted Lifestream was not affected by it, was the contrary, the corrupted one was affecting the pure one(corrupting it). The truth is that the corrupted Lifestream by itself, is not really more powerfull than the pure one, but with Sephiroth's will controlling it, it was more powerfull.
After Cloud deffeated Sephiroth his will was more weak, and then Aerith could use her Great Gospel to destroy the rest of it.


Except he does not control all of it, same as Kefka did not control all magic in FF6. Not all gods are created equal. Thor could beat the crap out of Ares, and such.

But Sephiroth can controll all the magic if he want, but Kefka can't.
For example, someone attack Kefka with a magic that is not related to the statues. What he can do? Deffend himself. Now someone attack Sephiroth with magic(created by the Lifestream, in FFVII world). What he can do? He can corrupt the Lifestream, and controll the magic that is used against him. If Sephiroth wasn't deffeated in the end of AC, he would have corrupted all the Lifestream without any problem, because the power of his will and his corrupted Lifestream was more powerfull than the pure one.

Little scenario that help to understand what i'm saying:

Kefka: You cannot kill me, because i controll all magic in the world!
*Someone attack Kefka with a magic spell not related with the Godesses*
Kefka: Crap, i don't have controll over your magic!

Sephiroth: You cannot kill me, because i controll all magic in the world.
*Someone use a Materia to manipulate the pure Lifestream, creating magic, and attacking Sephiroth with it*
Sephiroth: Crap, i don't have controll over your magic... yet.
*Someone use a Materia to manipulate the Lifestream, creating magic, and attacking Sephiroth with it... But nothing happens*
Guy: Where is my magic?! Why nothing happened?!
Sephiroth: Because the part of the Lifestream that you was using to create magic, is already corrupted by me. Your magic now, is my magic.
Guy: Oh crap!
*Guy die*

[PuPu]

I don’t know about Kefka but with Kuja I never really hated him or the bad guy in X or 8 but with 7 I really wanted to kill Sephiroth more then completing the game, that’s what made him a great villain for me.

It's been said before, but your opinion does not make Sephy a great villain.
Also, no offense, but it doesn't look like anybody is even listening to you anymore. Ryushikaze and The Crystal are basically taking over this thread.

On topic:
@ Crystal about Sephy being able to control people's magic; There is no proof that Sephy can do that. These things you say are probably assumed by the things you see he has done in FFVII and AC. One could also say Sephy CAN destroy the Solar System with Super Nova, but we all know it was just a cool looking attack the Square made for Sephy, and nothing more.

[Forsaken Lover]

Sephiroth: You cannot kill me, because i controll all magic in the world.
*Someone use a Materia to manipulate the pure Lifestream, creating magic, and attacking Sephiroth with it*
Sephiroth: Crap, i don't have controll over your magic... yet.
*Someone use a Materia to manipulate the Lifestream, creating magic, and attacking Sephiroth with it... But nothing happens*
Guy: Where is my magic?! Why nothing happened?!
Sephiroth: Because the part of the Lifestream that you was using to create magic, is already corrupted by me. Your magic now, is my magic.
Guy: Oh crap!
*Guy die*



That’s all quite fascinating. I do understand that power is not everything but again, his evilness pales totally in comparison to Kuja and Kefka’s. He’s had 2 resurrections now and still not even at half of what they did with one.

So, let’s talk in terms of power. Kuja did not control the source of all life. He controlled some souls in one single place and used it with his own anger to become more powerful than Sephiroth could dream. Kefka used the Goddess Statues and leisurely wiped out population centers when he felt like it. So, those two outweigh “dark clouds.”

Now, onto my original list.

1. Hulk Hogan-
Simple. The ultimate combo. Hulk Up. Finger point. 3 punches. Big Boot. Leg Drop. It’s over.
2. Albedo-
Cutting off his head can’t kill him. Reducing him to particles can’t kill him.
3. Any of the Testaments-
The Testaments control space-time. They are beyond any and all laws of physics in the known universe and impervious to damage or being killed unless the Testament or their creator in fact wills it so.
4. KOS-MOS-
Has the power to confront and battle with God as seen in a possible future.The battle resulted in universal destruction.
5. Id-
Wields the power of the god of Xenogears and was destroying entire countries.
6. Kain (LoK)-
TK. Soul Reaver shot. Over.
7. Raziel (LoK)-
TK. Devour soul. Over.
8. Lavos-
Lavos was everything Sephiroth wanted to be....
9. Ness-
Swings for the fences, batting 1000 on Seph’s head. Or, more easily, makes his head explode.
10. Emperor Palpatine of the Star Wars Expanded Universe.-
Force Storm. Over.

[The Crystal]

It's been said before, but your opinion does not make Sephy a great villain.
Also, no offense, but it doesn't look like anybody is even listening to you anymore. Ryushikaze and The Crystal are basically taking over this thread.

I don't want to be annoying, but Chrisfffan is just saying his opinion about Sephiroth, and what is a good villain to him. He is on-topic so, what is the problem?


On topic:
@ Crystal about Sephy being able to control people's magic; There is no proof that Sephy can do that. These things you say are probably assumed by the things you see he has done in FFVII and AC. One could also say Sephy CAN destroy the Solar System with Super Nova, but we all know it was just a cool looking attack the Square made for Sephy, and nothing more.

Yeah, there is no prove that he can do that. But the Super Nova don't make any sense, because he destroy the Solar System many times, and nothing happens to you.
But the Lifestream is the source of all the magic in the world. Sephiroth can controll it, Sephiroth can controll magic. This make sense(contrary of Super Nova, that don't).