Rockstar, Sony, and Take-two in $600million lawsuit.

[bipper]

Obligatory Jack Thompson Thread:

An anonymous reader writes "Family members of three victims of a shooting by a 14-year-old have filed a $600 million lawsuit against the makers of Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. From the article: 'The $600 million lawsuit names several companies and Cody Posey, who it alleges played the game ''obsessively'' for several months before he shot his father, stepmother and stepsister in July 2004 ... The plaintiffs accuse the corporate defendants -- Sony Corporation of America, Take-Two Interactive Software Inc. and its subsidiary, Rockstar Games -- of a civil conspiracy, saying they should have foreseen their entertainment would spawn such copycat violence.'" It may or may not be a coincidence that Jack Thompson is the plaintiff's attorney.
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What a horrible tragedy. People are actually paying Jack Thompson to be thier lawer. And what is 600 million for? My God, people are just pathetic.

bipper

[Jowy]

I can't believe that Jack Thompson hasn't killed himself yet.

[LunarWeaver]

I heard about this. The kid himself said he faced mental, physical, and emotional abuse all the time at the hands of his dad and it caused him to snap...and they decided GTA was the reason.

[ljkkjlcm9]

what the hell, isn't anyone responsible for their own actions these days? I see violence in the media all the time. Violent movies, games, music, but I'll never go out and kill someone. Seriously, why does there always need to be a scapegoat. People need to start taking the punishment for their crime, without blaming others. I'm starting to get royally p'd off

THE JACKEL

[Dreddz]

Gamers are just as ignorant saying video games have no impact. I do think violent video games do influence people ( usually kids ) to do bad things. But so do most media. It depends on the situation, Jack Thompson does seem to always blame video games though, but he has got a point.

As with this case, I personally think saying he was playing Vice City isnt enough for a court case.

[ljkkjlcm9]

Gamers are just as ignorant saying video games have no impact. I do think violent video games do influence people ( usually kids ) to do bad things. But so do most media. It depends on the situation, Jack Thompson does seem to always blame video games though, but he has got a point.

are you kidding? Most people I know who play games use it as an outlet to be less violent. Rather than punching a wall when they get mad, they blow up people in a game. Rather than causing a fight with someone, they wait and kill something in a game. Games are outlets for violence more so than an actual cause of violence. Humans are violent by nature, and saying a game makes someone violent is absurd. We've all had violent thoughts before, but some of us control ourselves and don't act on it. Blaming video games or movies to any extent is honestly absurd. There was plenty if not more violence before video games.

THE JACKEL

[Rainecloud]

Not this again...

If his parents knew he was playing the game obsessively and wasn't in the right state of mind, why didn't they do something about it back then? They are responsible for this - not Sony, etc.

Can people sue the makers of kitchen knives because they can be used to kill people? No, of course not.

[ljkkjlcm9]

Not this again...

If his parents knew he was playing the game obsessively and wasn't in the right state of mind, why didn't they do something about it back then? They are responsible for this - not Sony, etc.

Can people sue the makers of kitchen knives because they can be used to kill people? No, of course not.
actually, I know of a case when someone sued Cutco because the knife they were using cut them, and they said they didn't know the knife was that sharp... they won. This country is absurd.

THE JACKEL

[Rainecloud]

Not this again...

If his parents knew he was playing the game obsessively and wasn't in the right state of mind, why didn't they do something about it back then? They are responsible for this - not Sony, etc.

Can people sue the makers of kitchen knives because they can be used to kill people? No, of course not.
actually, I know of a case when someone sued Cutco because the knife they were using cut them, and they said they didn't know the knife was that sharp... they won. This country is absurd.

THE JACKAL

Well, I guess that's a bit different. I've never heard of anyone sueing Wal*Mart/ASDA/Some Random Store for selling a knife that was later used to stab someone in the face.

[ljkkjlcm9]

Well, I guess that's a bit different. I've never heard of anyone sueing Wal*Mart/ASDA/Some Random Store for selling a knife that was later used to stab someone in the face.
it's still absurd because a knife is designed to cut, and he sued because it cut him, and yet won. I don't understand how someone can be stupid, and get money for it

THE JACKEL

[Ender]

Honestly, I'm not sure whether any of us here are capable of truly evaluating the effects of video game violence on behavior. I'm guessing that even though studies suggest that it does, there are so many factors that influence behavior that the number of studies and statistical analysis that's required to confirm exactly what effect it has is beyond the scope of what has been done and what will be done in any of our "gaming lifetimes."

Frankly, how do you isolate the video-game factor in the behavior of a child who isn't being monitored properly for behavioral influences by his parents or guardians? They certainly can prove that playing a video game affects chemical and psychological responses due to a hightened state of awareness and aggressiveness that comes with the adrenaline or whatever of playing a game, but proving that it affects one's world view or psychological state permanently is a much dodgier claim. I would guess that it does to various degrees to different people, but I can't prove it one way or another.

But anyway, there's a reason we have the ESRB. Game companies don't bare any legal responsibility outside of submitting their games for rating. After that it's the responsibility of the store to not sell the game to someone under-age, and the parents to monitor what their child is playing.

And I agree with everybody else who thinks the blaming someone else for one's actions thing is pretty much out of hand. :rolleyes2

[LunarWeaver]

Not this again...

If his parents knew he was playing the game obsessively and wasn't in the right state of mind, why didn't they do something about it back then? They are responsible for this - not Sony, etc.

Can people sue the makers of kitchen knives because they can be used to kill people? No, of course not.

I agree with this too. Where were his parents? What were they doing? Why did they buy him a game that was rated M and let him play it all the time, a game he shouldn't legally be playing until he's 3 years older than he is?

I simply fail to see how it's the game makers fault, and I really can't see why Sony is being sued.

If he had aggression built up from his homelife and he abused the game to make it worse, it still isn't the game's fault.

It's like what Rainecloud said with the knives... I could kill someone with a knife, but that doesn't make the makers responsible for allowing it to be available to me, it makes me responsible for abusing something that is available to me.

[Dreddz]

Gamers are just as ignorant saying video games have no impact. I do think violent video games do influence people ( usually kids ) to do bad things. But so do most media. It depends on the situation, Jack Thompson does seem to always blame video games though, but he has got a point.

are you kidding? Most people I know who play games use it as an outlet to be less violent. Rather than punching a wall when they get mad, they blow up people in a game. Rather than causing a fight with someone, they wait and kill something in a game. Games are outlets for violence more so than an actual cause of violence. Humans are violent by nature, and saying a game makes someone violent is absurd. We've all had violent thoughts before, but some of us control ourselves and don't act on it. Blaming video games or movies to any extent is honestly absurd. There was plenty if not more violence before video games.

THE JACKAL

So are you saying its not possible that a kid see's someone bludgeon someone over the head with a bat and wont try to copy it ?

[Samuraid]

I agree with those who say video games DO affect the players. They DO, but not enough to cause actual shootings. Such terrible events are generally triggered by other influences and/or mental instability.

[The Infinite Telomerase]

This kind of reminds me of that time I played Custer's Revenge and ended up raping and killing some Native American chick.

[Dreddz]

This kind of reminds me of that time I played Custer's Revenge and ended up raping and killing some Native American chick.

Wow, lets just hope you dont mimic Beat 'Em & Eat 'Em.

[The Infinite Telomerase]

Because [!]catching semen in my mouth from a man ejaculating from the top of a building is worse than forcing the old in-out in-out on some young devotchka?[/!] We don't post stuff like this, even hidden in spoiler tags. Don't do it again.

~Void

[Hawkeye]

The minute you put a lawsuit up for ridiculous amounts of money in scenarios like this, it is not about the victims killed but merely about the money.

[Paro]

Lawsuits of this class are usually settled by the defendant paying the cost of defense. Which is the whole point of the lawsuit. For a few hundred thousand the plaintiff agrees to go away quietly, rather than loudly dragging the issue through a courtroom with subsequent exposure of the defendant to a potential large judgement (case merit not required), and/or bad media publicity. It's a form of extortion.



[!] / message [/!][!] sig [/!]

[Rase]

I agree with those who say video games DO affect the players. They DO, but not enough to cause actual shootings. Such terrible events are generally triggered by other influences and/or mental instability.
I'm in agreement with Samuraid on eveything here. The effect that video games have on a person do not, to me, seem to be enough to make people go out and commit these crimes. It may serve as "just another thing" in a long list of influences, but then so can books, music, and other types of media, as well as things in their life, any mental disabilities or conditions, and a host of other things.

As for the lawsuit, well, the part were they say Sony and Co. should have forseen that it would be copied seems pretty silly to me. How are they to know the mental conditions and life issues of everyone who buys their game? Placing the blame solely on video games is just stupid, especially considering the number of people who play videogames now.

[Raistlin]

People who say video games cause violence are making a common error for people who don't know statistics - mistaking a causal relationship.

It is much more logically plausible that violent people are simply more likely to play violent games. This kid who played GTA obsessively was, more than likely, a very prone-to-violence kid to begin with, hence liking GTA so much.

[Erdrick Holmes]

If you go nuts and kill somebody saying you learned it from a video game you're a fricken idiot and I think deserve extra jailtime. I've played violent video games my wholel ife, I've never killed somebody because of them. A game doesn't put a gun in your hand and tell you to go kill, you do.

[ljkkjlcm9]

Saying guns kill people is like saying your pen misspelled words. "Hey, looks like you spelled some words wrong."...."Oh yeah, I need a new pen.

now it's even worse if you say video games are the reason someone killed someone. So the game not only put the gun in your hand, it made you pull the trigger too? There are far more problems with the person than playing violent video games if they go out and kill someone. Where'd this 14 year old even get the gun? That's a problem in itself.

THE JACKEL

[Sephex]

Gamers are just as ignorant saying video games have no impact. I do think violent video games do influence people ( usually kids ) to do bad things. But so do most media. It depends on the situation, Jack Thompson does seem to always blame video games though, but he has got a point.



Right. And there are people who say the Bible/religion inspired them to kill thier fellow man. I guess we should sue Jesus Christ or something.

[KentaRawr!]

Gamers are just as ignorant saying video games have no impact. I do think violent video games do influence people ( usually kids ) to do bad things. But so do most media. It depends on the situation, Jack Thompson does seem to always blame video games though, but he has got a point.



Right. And there are people who say the Bible/religion inspired them to kill thier fellow man. I guess we should sue Jesus Christ or something.

Jesus must have seen it coming. That's why he didn't whoop them guards with Christ Kung-Fu when he was being put on the cross. Then, he'd go on to heaven, and then he couldn't get sued.

Anyway, as for my take on this...

I will not deny that video games can affect people in negative ways. However, saying they directly cause major violence with children is not only foolish due to (insert piece of common sense here), but also because violent crime rates have dropped since the Playstation's release. Not to imply that video games STOP violence, but to say Video Games INCREASE violent crime rates in children is silly since they've dropped.

[escobert]

this is so stupid, some just kill Thompson.

[Lindy]

People who say video games cause violence are making a common error for people who don't know statistics - mistaking a causal relationship.

It is much more logically plausible that violent people are simply more likely to play violent games. This kid who played GTA obsessively was, more than likely, a very prone-to-violence kid to begin with, hence liking GTA so much.
Actually, following psychological studies, people who play violent video games tend to become more violent, but the relationship is more like smoking is to cancer; if you smoke, you're more likely to get cancer, but just because you're smoking doesn't mean you'll definitely get it.

On a lighter note, isn't it fun how Jack Thompson preaches against video games inciting violence, and then one or more people in a topic (on a video game forum) suggest murdering the guy, really clears the water eh?

[ljkkjlcm9]

On a lighter note, isn't it fun how Jack Thompson preaches against video games inciting violence, and then one or more people in a topic (on a video game forum) suggest murdering the guy, really clears the water eh?

but how many of us do you think would actually kill him if given the chance?

From my own studies of people I know playing games, they all use games as an outlet for anger and the like, to not actually do anything violent.

THE JACKEL

[Markus. D]

mhmm, this could of happened just the same if he watched a movie of the same nature in the same nature of the nature.

[ValkyrieWing]

Wow...

[Dreddz]

Gamers are just as ignorant saying video games have no impact. I do think violent video games do influence people ( usually kids ) to do bad things. But so do most media. It depends on the situation, Jack Thompson does seem to always blame video games though, but he has got a point.



Right. And there are people who say the Bible/religion inspired them to kill thier fellow man. I guess we should sue Jesus Christ or something.

I dont think you knew what I was saying, I dont mean that Video games are always the problem. But in some cases, yes, I do believe that video games are the cause. Its people who say that Video games have no impact at all on people, who I think are very mistaken.

[Carl the Llama]

Well i used to suffer from emotional behavioral difficultys and used to have to go to anger management classes because whenever I gat really wound up I would hit doors/walls etc... well anyways whenever i got so stressed I would fire up the ole PS2 and have a good long bash at Devil May Cry and i would always feel moderatly calm after (instead of the burning rage i felt before i played the game) so, in short yes, video games do have a profound effect on people and anyone dissagrees I think is not admitting the truth or doesnt play them

on a side note I personally think this thread should be in EOEO

[Rocket Edge]

A person who claims their actions are based solely off a video-game isn't in a stable mind in the first place. He already had a motive, this case was a farce from the start.

[Gnostic Yevon]

I think video games can affect people. It's probably no different than any other media -- and it depends on just how violent the game is in what context. You could say the same for books and magazines. Violent, hardcore porn is probably more likely to cause a person to rape a woman rather than a romance novel. Sure, there's sex in both, but in the first case, it's violent, nonconsentual and graphic, in the other, it's a relationship that builds through the novel, it's not graphic, and not violent.

I see the same thing with games. If the game glorifies killing and rewards the player with graphic images of decapitations and shattering bones, etc., it's more likely to cause violence in the real world than say Suikoden III, where the combat is turn-based, not graphicly violent, and the context given is "save the world".

I've never been a huge fan of Rockstar, they seem to be making games in the violence porn style -- games that are graphicly violent for the sole purpose of being graphicly violent. They seem to do this more for the purpose of fame than anything. I don't think they're neccesarily guilty -- the main cause seems to be an abusive father, not GTA.

[Dreddz]

Well i used to suffer from emotional behavioral difficultys and used to have to go to anger management classes because whenever I gat really wound up I would hit doors/walls etc... well anyways whenever i got so stressed I would fire up the ole PS2 and have a good long bash at Devil May Cry and i would always feel moderatly calm after (instead of the burning rage i felt before i played the game) so, in short yes, video games do have a profound effect on people and anyone dissagrees I think is not admitting the truth or doesnt play them

on a side note I personally think this thread should be in EOEO

Its not about whether games get you into the mood for violence, its that they give people ideas on how to express violence.

[Rase]

Its not about whether games get you into the mood for violence, its that they give people ideas on how to express violence.
As do all forms of media. Heck, real life itself gives you tons of ideas on how to "express violence". Just watch the news on any given night.

[Sephex]

Gamers are just as ignorant saying video games have no impact. I do think violent video games do influence people ( usually kids ) to do bad things. But so do most media. It depends on the situation, Jack Thompson does seem to always blame video games though, but he has got a point.



Right. And there are people who say the Bible/religion inspired them to kill thier fellow man. I guess we should sue Jesus Christ or something.

I dont think you knew what I was saying, I dont mean that Video games are always the problem. But in some cases, yes, I do believe that video games are the cause. Its people who say that Video games have no impact at all on people, who I think are very mistaken.

Okay, I wasn't exactly responding to you, though. I was just responding at the idea of banning/regulating stuff that supposedly causes poeple to act out. I was pretty much saying by that logic you can tie human violence to just about anything.

[Bloodline666]

Basically, Jack Thompson stereotypes people who play violent video games as murderers. I'm so sick of his bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif! He should have been disbarred last year when the Florida Bar Association investigated his ass for the Penny-Arcade.com incident. He should've REALLY been investigated for his unsympathetic letter to a Metal Gear Solid fansite about a member of their forums who committed suicide.

I listen to Slayer, Cradle Of Filth, Lamb Of God, etc. I play Mortal Kombat, Grand Theft Auto, BloodRayne, etc. Do you see me killing anyone? Hell no! And if I did, I'd have a DAMN good reason to (such as threatening the life of one of my family members or my girlfriend/wife, or pure self-defense)! I'd never hide behind the excuse of "the games and the music made me do it!" If I had a damn good reason to do such things, I'd stick with that reason all the way to my grave!

It's time that we start a petition, to be sent to the Florida Bar Association, to have Jack Thompson disbarred. Any volunteers?

[Ashley Schovitz]

I agree with The Jackal and Lunarweaver it's just absurd to sue for that much, and to blame the game for the son's actions when it truly was the parent's fault for not raising him right, like Lunarweaver stated he was abused. Oh and to the above post, I'll sign it if you make it.

[Captain Maxx Power]

One of these days I'm going to go around doing community service, and when people ask me why I'm doing it, I'll say it's because I played Harvest Moon too much.