SE confirms: player excuse to diminish enjoyment of smn job adjusted

[Garland]

Effective after the October update, whenever a summoner says: "I don't want to be a main healer," the default reply shall be: "What do you plan to do for 30 seconds between BPs?". Note that the current default reply is: "What do you plan to do for one minute between BPs?".


Changes to the Summoner Job
Summoners use the Blood Pact pet command as their main way of doing battle. Both attacks and support/healing magic are included in this command and operate with a single recast time.

The development team has decided to split Blood Pact into two commands to allow players to select a strategy to fit the current situation once every minute.

[The New Blood Pacts]
The summoner pet command Blood Pact will be divided into two categories, each with its own recast time. "Blood Pact: Rage" will focus on direct damage and special attacks, while "Blood Pact: Ward" will center on support, enfeebling, and healing magic.

· Blood Pact: Rage (Recast time: 1 minute)
Orders the avatar to use special attacks.

· Blood Pact: Ward (Recast time: 1 minute)
Orders the avatar to use support abilities.

[Summoning Magic Skill]
- Effects on Blood Pact
Blood Pact will receive different effects when the value added by equipment or merit points exceeds the skill cap for that level.

For example, players can experience increased accuracy when using Blood Pact: Rage or lengthened effect durations when using Blood Pact: Ward. The length of the duration increased varies depending on which Blood Pact is used, but will not exceed 180 seconds.

A player whose summoning magic skill is lower than the skill cap will not experience any penalties, such as a decrease in accuracy or shortened effect durations.

- Skill Increases
The instances in which players can increase their skill will also be changed in accordance with the adjustments to summoning magic skill.

Originally, calling forth an avatar would sometimes improve a player's summoning magic skill. Soon players will also be able to experience increases in skill when using the Blood Pact: Rage and Blood Pact: Ward pet commands.

That wraps up the job-related changes coming in the next version update. More are scheduled for future updates, though, so keep checking the main page for the latest news!

[Miriel]

Uhhhh. No, man.

The CURRENT bloodpacts (all bloodpacts) can be done once every 60 seconds. With this adjusments, we'll be able to effectively cast 2 bloodpacts (one "ward' type BP and one "Rage" type bloodpact) within that one minute span.

What does that mean for Summoners? It'll mean that we'll be able to cast a buff like Earthen Ward, Hastega or a Party cure and immediately follow it with a damage attack like Double Punch or Meteorite since the timers for Ward type BPs will be seperate from Rage type BPs.

This is an AMAZING job update for Summoners.

The only concern for Summoners at this point will be learning how to conserve MP since if we take advantage of BPing twice every minute, we'll be using waaay more MP. Conservation will be key.

Honestly, this update makes me want to continue with Summoner rather than go with White Mage. I'm so excited about this update!

I don't really understand how your impressions about this adjustment went completely opposite of the reaction of most Summoners which was basically elation and excitement. :p

[Darius]

Sounds pretty sweet! I was considerig starting a summoner but now I think I will for sure. :)

[Bahamut2000X]

Well this could make the trial fights a bit more interesting. >.>

Now I can save my BP for both Astral Flow AND a heal from carby. <.<

Hmmm might have to give that a try then. Now to just get SMN out of the dunes. >.>

[Garland]

I don't really understand how your impressions about this adjustment went completely opposite of the reaction of most Summoners which was basically elation and excitement. :p

My response wasn't an impression of the update. I didn't comment in that regard. My post was the average party or FFXI community being forced to reword their excuse as to why summoners will still be pigeonholed into main healing. I think the update is going to be pretty cool, but I don't think it'll change community placement of the job in a party. If I end up wrong, that's great. I've always wanted summoners to exp as summoners.

[Yeargdribble]

I think the update is going to be pretty cool, but I don't think it'll change community placement of the job in a party. If I end up wrong, that's great.


I have to sadly agree with Garland. Once a job is pigeonholed, it is nigh impossible for them to get out of that role. I suppose there is a small chance that they might find a more normal spot in a PT.

Honestly, this puts SMN into a class of its own. They are now part BRD, part DD. With good conservation they could carry this role similar to COR (but with no Refresh), but I highly doubt PTs will allow for this. When someone wants a DD they aren't gonna invite SMN (just like they don't invite BLMs these days). Also, without refresh BRD and COR probably wouldn't even get invites. There are still a lot of ignorant melees that don't realize how much a BRD or COR enhances their performance. Without Refresh they would be out of a job and I think the case will be the same for SMN.

I hope I'm wrong, but having been with the community for sometime, I think I know their reaction. Unless it is new, amazing, and instantly noticable nothing will change. To non-SMNs this is essentially just shortening the time between them doing worthless BPs and wasting MP they should be using curing. /sad

[Bahamut2000X]

Hmm maybe now SMN will be able to actually have thier dispel be somewhat more useful then before. Although is Eclipse Bite (that's the BP for it right? >.>) considered a Rage or a Ward type ability? >.>


(just like they don't invite BLMs these days)

Whoa...wait...WHAT!? People not inviting BLM as a DD? I dunno how other servers are, but on my server BLM is the top DD required. And well, there's no reason for them NOT to be, as they are the strongest DD hands down in terms of direct pure out damage. If your trying to reference the nerf, you have to remember that was VS NM's only. And well, no exp party ever fights those to begin with, and on top of that it's only when you get the multiple BLM's vs a NM that you notice a change in damage.

But even so, unless SE drastically buffs the other DD or nerfs BLM for exp, then BLM will be the top DD. Although then again RNG is getting a buff soon. They might be fighting for the top of the DD chart again by popular views. >.>

[Yeargdribble]

(just like they don't invite BLMs these days)

Whoa...wait...WHAT!? People not inviting BLM as a DD? I dunno how other servers are, but on my server BLM is the top DD required. And well, there's no reason for them NOT to be, as they are the strongest DD hands down in terms of direct pure out damage. If your trying to reference the nerf, you have to remember that was VS NM's only. And well, no exp party ever fights those to begin with, and on top of that it's only when you get the multiple BLM's vs a NM that you notice a change in damage.



At what level? Pre 40 it's not so bad... almost any job gets decent invites. BLM invites at 60+ are almost non-existant. People prefer DDs that aren't limited by MP. Additionally, BLM can do a huge amount of damage but at a cost. If you do too much damage (which is easy) you pull hate. BLM can't take hits and if they pull too much hate they die. That means downtime. However, if a melee job takes hate, they are beefier and can take the hits.

People often don't want a job that is limited by their MP for damage (i.e. SMN or BLM). What made matters even worse is that post-RNG nerf everyone became a bandwagon BLM so they could be the biggest DD endgame again.

I think it's unfair, because a good BLM that knows how to MB can do great damage and as long as they toe the line of hate they are great assets.

[Miriel]

I don't really understand how your impressions about this adjustment went completely opposite of the reaction of most Summoners which was basically elation and excitement. :p

My response wasn't an impression of the update. I didn't comment in that regard. My post was the average party or FFXI community being forced to reword their excuse as to why summoners will still be pigeonholed into main healing. I think the update is going to be pretty cool, but I don't think it'll change community placement of the job in a party. If I end up wrong, that's great. I've always wanted summoners to exp as summoners.

The title you chose for this thread specifically implied that the job of Summoner was somehow diminished by this update, when in fact, the enjoyment people get from this job will probably go up a significant amount with these new adjustments.

What's a summoner gonna do during their time in between bloodpacts other than main heal? Well, I dunno. Maybe they could do what *I* usually end up doing in parties which is backup heal. With the new bloodpact timers, there's gonna be more opportunities to cast buffs, and cast damage attacks, have the avatars melee in between and the Summoner themself can throw out cures when needed.

Worthless bloodpacts? How many of the people on this forum consider BPs to be worthless? Because I've never partied with anyone who considered my bloodpacts worthless and I certainly don't believe that's the prevailing belief in the FFXI community. Buffs such as Earthen Ward and Hastega are very valuable to a party, and I would think most people realize that.

Do people rely on SMNs as main healers when there's a shortage of WHMs or RDMs? Sure! But that doesn't mean people won't allow for this or won't allow for that. Besides, if I don't want to main heal, I won't. Sometimes I don't mind main healing. Other times I'll just wait for a party that already has a healer or create a party of my own.

Is this update revolutionary for SMNs? Heck no. But it does allow us to do more. More buffs, more damage, just MORE for the job class. And that's just an all around great thing.

[Fuego]

I think its a good idea. My summoner is only at 25 but i am starting to get the buff BP's and during battle i can see how this system will help.

But as for main healing, i am used to that seeing as how when i started the game my main job is Rdm ... then lvl'd whm to sub ... LOL

I'm very interested to try it out :D

[Yeargdribble]

I think what this update will allow SMN to do and what the community will allow SMN to do are 2 totally different things. While this update might make SMN a reasonable DD/buffer with the ability to back-up heal... the community has gotten used to SMN as a healer and the community doesn't really accept buffing jobs that much. From most people's PoV a buffing job is just a waste of a DD spot. Now don't get me wrong, because I don't think this is the case honestly. As a BRD I fully understand what a buffing only job can do to a PT to make it much more efficient.

However, even with Ballad and all of the buffs BRD gets... my wife cannot get PTs on her BRD at 41. Why? Because people don't want a buffer... they want a Refresh whore. RDM and COR supercede BRD in that area at 41. So if even BRD with Ballad I can't get PTs to be a buffer, it's unlikely SMN will. Even with the DD attributes people will still invite SMN primarily as a main healer when there isn't a WHM.

As nice as things like Hastega are, they don't last long enough. Earthen Ward at least lasts a while. While you can increase the duration of your buffs now you would have to do so through insanely expensive gear. Summoning Earrings have been flying off the AHs of the servers and going up in price quickly.

[Miriel]

Woooow, your server must be weird, cause BRDs get snatched up like nothing on Pandemonium. It's like, you do a search, "oh yay, a brd is seeking!" you go to invite, and bam, they're already gone. BRDs and CORs are among my favorite classes to party with. Seriously, I was always under the impression that Bards get invites super quick.

And I don't like that word, "allow". No one is gonna "allow" me to do anything. If I don't want to main heal. I won't. If I want to buff/dd, I will. I'll start my own party and get a main healer so that I won't have to do that job. I don't mind backup healing at all, but if I wanted to play as a gimped WHM, I'd just level WHM. I've never been in a situation where someone said, "oh, SMN isn't gonna main heal? *drops the party*" And I don't think a situation like that will ever come up. :p

[Del Murder]

Yeah, BRDs never last more than 5 min looking on our server, even after level 41.

BLMs go pretty fast too (I'm up to level 47 so I don't know about 60+). One great plus for a BLM over another DD is of course the Warp II when the party is over. :) People who don't invite BLMs, their loss, because they can do massive damage. I guess they just aren't good enough tanks who can keep the hate. *flex*

[Bahamut2000X]

Eh I guess it's just a difference of servers then. My server buffers are in high demand, and only really ever wait if there is a lack of a party forming/in need of a buffing slot. Pretty much everyone on Cait Sith realizes just how well thier ACC/ATK go up with a BRD/COR in the party.

As for the BLM bit, eh really pre-40's with refreash, thier downtime isn't a big deal as it's always the healers downtime you have to wait on anyways. Never once have we waited on the BLM's MP to be good.

And also thier in high demand in my server in exp parties, especially in the levels were you fight high def mobs like crabs or beetles, where BLM will excel over any other DD hands down.

But I guess it's just server difference really. I've heard other servers do some crazy stuff. Like Gilgamesh pre-RNG nerf I hear most everyone on the server refused to party with less then 2-3 RNG's and would wait to form the "perfect party" or not exp at all.

Now that's some craziness. Again I have only heard this though. >.>

[Markus. D]

wow, Summoner sounds rather interesting to myself, I might give it a try one day n_n-b If I could ever find the toleration to do the lengthy Job Quest ._.

[Garland]

The title you chose for this thread specifically implied that the job of Summoner was somehow diminished by this update, when in fact, the enjoyment people get from this job will probably go up a significant amount with these new adjustments.

Actually, it doesn't imply that at all. Maybe you're familiar with Allakazham's FFXI forums? Or perhaps one of the other multitude of FFXI forums where people reinforce FFXI's unwritten rules? Every day it seems, a new summoner, or a disgruntled old one comes on and rants how summoners shouldn't be main healers. Summoners should summon, they say. And every time this happens, a whole bunch of people with nothing better to do, say: "So what're you going to do for the 60 seconds between BPs? Melee Lolsmn? Nuke w/ ur blm sub for 3 dmg? Ur a gimp". I'm not making this up. I was just making fun of it in my thread title because I read FFXI forums WAY too much. Anway, it needn't have been an issue regardless. I dislike the FFXI community in regards to how anal it gets about perfection. Way too many rules. I make cynical comments about it whenever I get the opportunity. I could've just kept the title informative, but it makes less of a point.

The topic title means: The community will have to adjust their excuse for pidgeonholing summoners in a role many dislike. SE adjusted said excuse by ~30 seconds, letting smn's BP 2x a minute.

[Miriel]

There were two people who helped me become a SMN. Both were level 75 SMNs as their main jobs. Having asked them both about the main healing deal, they both said that they've never had a problem getting parties or forming parties that let them play their job the way they wanted. Which was backup healing and doing the whole BP, melee, deal. From my own experience, I only act as main heal about 20% and even in those cases, no one tells me, "Don't bring out your Avatars."

So all this talk about what the COMMUNITY thinks and what the COMMUNITY says SMNs can and can't do is silly. Because I'm part of the FFXI community and I can't say that I've experienced this whole pidgeonholing deal to the extend you guys talk about.

From my experience as a Summoner, I've had a great time. Casting BPs, doing magic bursts, tossing out the occassional cure.

If, as you say, there are people who are absolutely determined to make SMNs main heal and get all uppity when Avatars are brought out or say that BPs are worthless... well I haven't seen it.

Maybe I just have a great server. But I hardly think that's really the case.

I look at this update and go, "sweeeet!" Y'all look at this update and go, "Well the community thinks this changes NOTHING!"

Brighten up, guys. :p

[Garland]

Are we playing the same game? I want to play your version. I got chewed out by a manaburn party simply for suggesting I might merit all my elemental potencies equally instead of ice and thunder. Summoners get more crap than I ever did. If you're blessed with such a great community, then you have my congratulations. All I've known since I started playing are the rules. A nonstandard subjob is as anathema to me as running a stopsign. Anyway, sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Yeargdribble]

Actually the game CAN dictate what you can and can't do to some extent. Try starting a PT as... I dunno... SMN/WAR. Wear melee gear (as best you can) and play as a melee SMN. Your PT will ditch you very quickly. If they don't, they are probably crappy players that can't get any other invites. You will not be able to succeed in this game doing things like SMN/WAR.

You have to play by the rules the community allows. WAR/DRG is a great combo from 20-30 but you'll get far less invites and far less quickly by flagging up that way. Picking popular subs like NIN and MNK will get you faster invites. If you want fast invites you will sub what people tell you to sub.

You CAN do anything you want but you may experience slower invites or have to deal with crappier PTs. Even if you make PTs yourself you will will probably have problems. You may say that SMN/WAR is a bad example because it's a stupid combination. But keep in mind that there are immature players that will say any job not subbing NIN is a stupid combination too.

[Miriel]

Yes I realize that the game and the rules the community establishes can determine how people play.

BUT. The big difference is that the idea that Summoners must main heal is not something I have personally experienced to the extent you were describing. So it's not not the same thing. I haven't had crappier parties because I wasn't the main healer. I've really enjoyed leveling SMN. Even though I vowed to take White Mage to 75, I'm finding myself more and more wanting to get SMN to 75 instead.

So what you and Garland were describing seemed more akin to the idea that there are tons of n00bs running around talking in unintelligible n00b speak. Yes, on occassion you will see people talk liek dis u no? But these people aren't a plague sweeping the game as some people like to pretend they are. Just like SMNs aren't as pigeonholed or bound to main healing as some people make them out to be. :)

[Yeargdribble]

Not to seem offensive but you have to keep in mind what levels you are.

Leveling pre-37 it is painfully easy to get a PT and do almost anything you want. Also, almost all of the regular leveling spots are pretty simple to get to. Qufim -> Kazham -> GC -> CN. These places are all near cities.

As you go higher it becomes increasingly difficult to find people that will XP without an efficient set up. When it's only 6k to the next level, meh. When it's 30k to the next level it's a different story. Who wants to leave town and go all the way to Kuftal, Cape Terrigan, Boyadha Tree, etc without a good and efficient set up?

A much much larger portion of the community is 40-75 than 1-40. This is the community most of us deal with and the community that me and Garland speak of.

[Miriel]

Yes I do keep that in mind, but the two amazing Summoners I had as my mentors, were both level 75 SMNs. And that was their main job. They were the ones who helped me get my ruby (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/hannahgoesrawr/pol2005-07-0722-20-52-07.jpg), the ones who gave me the strategy to win the Avatar fights, the ones who gave a newbie SMN all the info and tips (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/hannahgoesrawr/pol2005-07-2618-05-44-44.jpg)that I could ever ask for, and I have *specifically* asked them about the main healing issue. And they have *specifically* told me that while on occassion, every summoner has to main heal, they've always been able to find parties or create their own parties that allowed them to take the role of a Summoner in a party, not a gimped white mage.

And I don't really think they would have lied so...

[Yeargdribble]

A friend of mine is a 75 SMN (and 75 BLM). He leveled SMN similarly to your friends, forming his own PTs so that he could actually summon. He ocassionally had to break down and main heal because people pretty much refused to PT with him.

After leveling his BLM he realized that he was able to get into more standard PTs. These PTs generally had better players and not just the scraps that were desperate for invites. Playing it your own way will definitely slow you down.

I think this update will seriously benefit SMN and make it on par for some of these better PTs. I honestly think it has been gimped until now and this is a great thing they have done. But, knowing the playerbase in regard to other changes from the past, this update probably won't mean much.

When RNG was nerfed it was IMMEDIATELY shunned. When SE destroys a job everyone jumps on quickly. But no matter how much DRG has been buffed up and no matter how much DRK has been buffed up... people won't let go of their preconceptions. I don't see that trend changing for SMN.

[Miriel]

Well, maybe it had something to do with the level of skill that my two SMNs friends both had. They were two of the best players I have ever had the pleasure of meeting in-game. I partied with them once as they were leveling secondary jobs and it was probably the most efficient party I've ever had in my entire time of playing FFXI. Not to mention they were a part of one of Pandemonium's most well respected Linkshells.

I always thought it was silly that people sat around waiting for people to invite them when they could just make their own party if they really wanted to exp. If you were a "nerfed" RNG, then be a party leader, invite people, and say, "hey, we're not super powerful anymore, but here's what I can still contribute to the party." Same thing for SMN. Everyone wants you to main heal? Form your own party.

And I think it's a mistake to assume that as a party leader, you're only gonna get the scrapes of desperate players. All parties need to start somewhere, why can't it be with a Summoner? Why would a party started by one of the less in-demand jobs mean that it's gonna be less workable?

I'm a Summoner, and to me this update means a lot. And I believe that this means that SMNs can bring more to the table which is a great thing. Who ever said that this update was gonna change the way the job functioned? It's a happy update. Let's all be happy.

[Yeargdribble]

And I think it's a mistake to assume that as a party leader, you're only gonna get the scrapes of desperate players. All parties need to start somewhere, why can't it be with a Summoner? Why would a party started by one of the less in-demand jobs mean that it's gonna be less workable?


Actually, you are likely to end up with scraps because the BRDs, RDMs, CORs, NINs, etc would often rather look for a PT than wait for a SMN or RNG or DRG or DRK to put one together. They will often leave your PT because in the time that it takes one of the less favorable jobs to make a PT they could've had 3 or 4 invites and can take their pick of the best PTs.

Sure it's an elitist attitude, but that's FFXI.

[Miriel]

I thought you said BRDs on your server don't get invites quickly. :p

And you sure seem to have a dim outlook about things in FFXI. Or maybe I'm naive. But at least I'm happy and having fun! *is still super excited about this update even if none of y'all are*

[Yeargdribble]

Well it all depends on the level range. It's not realliy that they don't get invites.. it's just that invites slow down considerably (relative to BRD invites 25-41 and 55-75). BRDs in their optimum level range can be prima donnas :rolleyes2 as can other popular jobs.


I will be the first to admit that this game turns people into pessimistic assholes. I witnessed it from people who were higher and had started earlier than I had. I still get excited about updates every time they come around. However, I take them with a dose of reality which results in pessimism.

However, as pessimistic as I am about the game it's not because I dislike it. I still enjoy it a lot and look forward to improvements. I've just learned to deal with certain bitter realities. Most of these have to do with endgame and give a sort of slant toward other things in game.

-RMT run rampant
-There is a lot of racism towards NAs... much of it from GMs.
-People bot claims constantly.
-GMs can't/won't do anything.
-Ullikummi is broken and SE tries to 'fix' it by making it easier for RMT and harder for real players.

[Garland]

I will be the first to admit that this game turns people into pessimistic assholes. I witnessed it from people who were higher and had started earlier than I had. I still get excited about updates every time they come around. However, I take them with a dose of reality which results in pessimism.


That sums me up as well. Though, I am trying to reform. The change in personality happenned so gradually I didn't even notice. I signed on back on March 24 of 04 for the PS2 release with naive hopes, and I saw the world of Vanadiel through rose colored glasses. I've always had fun, but my perceptions of the game and how I dealt with people changed quite a bit over time. In time, I knew my place, and I knew everyone elses' place, and like a Hindu caste system, I became molded into a sort of Vanadiel 10 Commandments personified. Reading forums and dealing with people who knew all the "rules" made me a rulebook. If anyone knows a retailer in the Al Zahbi region that sells rose colored glasses, send me a /tell. My old ones are stained with crud and I can't see any light.

[Captain Maxx Power]

If you're so miserable about it, then just stop playing.

[Del Murder]

The community is not an entity to itself, it is made up of people. Just because there are some people who are stubborn and closed minded doesn't mean there are plenty of people out there like us who know every job when used properly and in the right mix can benefit it's party in many different ways. The easiest way to ignore the stereotypers is to just form your own party. You can pick your role and the roles around you any way you think it will be efficient. Most people are grateful for invites, and unless you are some bizarre combo I really don't see how hard it would be to get them to join.

[Yeargdribble]

I don't plan to quit and I don't hate it so much. Honestly, I try to be optimistic about it quite often. When I first heard about them changing DRGs 2hr I thought that would really make a difference in people'e opinions on DRGs. I was excited and expectant. It wasn't SE's fault that people continued to snub DRG.

When SE said that they were adjusting the way Ullikummi spawned I figured they'd do something awesome like make him a forced pop or reduce his window to be less than the ridiculous 8-12 hours it is now which causes a bottleneck in sky and gives the RMT an absolute monopoly. I had my hopes up quite a bit an really thought something good was gonna happen.

Things like the bercus interview are what makes people pessimistic. He asked so many questions and basically got told "I don't know", "We don't know" or reacted in surprise to certain things the playerbase is painfully aware of (overcrowding in merit PT areas, lag in beseiged etc.) Anyone remember the Sage Sundi interview from over a year ago. He said that ToAU would be primarily low level content. They seem to have no clue about their own game.

Perhaps this is only to their response to non-JP gamers. It seems like they were a lot more forthcoming at the TGS this year. The translation of the interviews shows much more direct answers to questions instead of the endless non-answers most non-JP interviewers get.




So you want optimism? SE has mentioned perhaps doing something to make abjurations less impossible to get. They are basically monopolized by people who bot at the 'Kings'. So I'm being optimistic that they will do something positive considering their comments about it both at TGS and a little more sheepishly in the bercus interview. Perhaps they will make them available through KS99 or make the king windows 12 hours instead of 24. I really want to be optimistic about this, but having been let down so many times before (notably and most recently with the Ulli update) I have the fear that SE will do something that will actually hinder anyone but the current botters from getting abjs.

[Miriel]

Yesterday I had a fabulous party leader. I think I shall just have him party with me ALL the time. ;)

Anyway, I do understand that End-game makes a LOT of players frustrated and whatnot. That's what made a couple of friends quit recently and join WoW (I'm looking at you m4tt!). But you know, you just gotta make the best of it. And everyone should give each other more of these, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/Emoticons01/glomp.gif.

[Del Murder]

If endgame is so frustrating then you should just level up more jobs. I think it would be more fun to take several jobs to 50 than maybe 1 or 2 to 75. Levelling 1-10 solo in the starting areas is so much fun, I think I'll do some of that today.

[Miriel]

But Tony, 75 makes you uber. :D

[Del Murder]

Ok, but once you hit 75 there's no one forcing you to do all the endgame stuff that people get frustrated with. Start over with a new job, do some quests or missions, help some newbies, plenty of fun things to do.

If I ever get to level 75 with PLD I'm going to the dunes and roaming around tossing out cures to random parties. And if someone asks me to stay I'll agree if they can toss a /random above 750 or something.

[Miriel]

Ok, let's go save the world together with your PLD and my WHM. <3

[Yeargdribble]

If endgame is so frustrating then you should just level up more jobs.

I'm actually doing that. I have all jobs (except for PUP and COR) at 20. I've got a good number of jobs at 37-42. My currently project is working on potentially getting all of my jobs to 40 (for sub and capped events) though I doubt I'll finish all of them before taking on other endeavors like getting my BLU to 75.



I think it would be more fun to take several jobs to 50 than maybe 1 or 2 to 75.

I find having a variety of jobs ready for capped events is a lot of fun. My wife has 2 75s and a 3rd on the way. However, it's a lot of work to keep and maintain multiple 75 jobs in terms of inventory space and being ready to do LS events on a multitude of jobs. It's a nightmare for my wife to switch between the two.

Also, with 2 (or more) jobs at 75 you have to sometimes sacrifice the performance of one for the other(s).


Levelling 1-10 solo in the starting areas is so much fun, I think I'll do some of that today.

As I said, I don't have many more jobs to level to 10, though I agree it's fun to level jobs to 10 and can also make a lot of money in crystals and such.




Ok, but once you hit 75 there's no one forcing you to do all the endgame stuff that people get frustrated with.


I do enjoy endgame. There are a lot of fun things to do. I'm only frustrated the SE often makes horrible decisions that sometimes ruin otherwise enjoyable experiences. Sky farming and fighting gods is a ton of fun when RMT aren't there. Seeing people in my shell get gear and getting gear myself is a lot of fun. Fighting large, challenging HNMs is fun.


Start over with a new job, do some quests or missions, help some newbies, plenty of fun things to do.

I enjoy all of the above things. Actually, my wife and I have completed every single quest in Sandy (I've actually got a spreadsheet with the checked off) and nearly all quests in other cities. We're rank 10 in all nations (did most of it duo for the challenge). We started a LS just to help people with things like missions, quests, AF etc. Helping newbies is a ton of fun and I really enjoy that.



If I ever get to level 75 with PLD I'm going to the dunes and roaming around tossing out cures to random parties.

From the PoV of someone not at 75 it's easy to assume this is the way you will feel endgame. You will just want to be 75 and uber and help out newbs all day long. However, after being 75 for well over a year that would grow tiresom and boring.

Also, once you are actually 75 you'll realize how much better your gear could be. You'll want to have some of the cool stuff you see other people wearing. You'll want to have all that awesome Relic gear and other things. You'll want your E abj body etc. Only once you are actually there facing it can you have a realistic idea of how you will respond to being 75.

[m4tt]

Anyway, I do understand that End-game makes a LOT of players frustrated and whatnot. That's what made a couple of friends quit recently and join WoW (I'm looking at you m4tt!). But you know, you just gotta make the best of it. And everyone should give each other more of these, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/Emoticons01/glomp.gif.

It wasn't just end game that made us quit, it was the fact that we were getting bored. You get to 75 and you've already done so much... You can easily start over on that same character, leveling a different job. But what if you don't want to be a stinky Galka anymore? I didn't, but I didn't want to have to do unlock all those areas all over again just to play a different race. The subjob quest, unlocking Lufaise Meadows, unlocking sky, Limit break quests.. I didn't want to do all those all over again.

Just as a comparison, I haven't ran into any REQUIRED quests or missions in WoW that you HAVE to do to continue in the game. But then my highest is only a level 44 Hunter, so I still got a lot to see.

[Mirage]

So you can grind all the way to 60 without having to do anything else. Cool!