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Lavarn
10-18-2006, 01:54 AM
In the early game, the main and arguably the only strength of having a thief in the party (no one would be stupid enough to put TWO thieves in the same party) is the facilitated running ability. I do not mean to suggest that a party without a thief should never run. Running is a crucial part of FF1. However, with a thief, one can reasonably expect that on average, the party can escape a battle one or two rounds earlier than it could without said thief. Depending on the exact battle one wishes to run from, this may or may not be important, and so it comes down to having a little bit of increased flexability in deciding which battles to fight, and which battles to run. Consequently, the party without a thief is forced to be more careful in these decisions.

In general, the more rounds a battle takes to win, the more one gains by choosing not to fight at all. If a battle can likely be won in 2-3 rounds, then by the time running is successful, the enemies may very well have been defeated anyway, with the added benefit of exp and gold. Thus, running does not save much damage, and is therefore not an optimal choice (assuming the party does not have a thief - if the party has a thief, things are not quite as strict because it is often possible to escape even before any damage is dealt). But if the battle is likely to last for more like 9 or 10 rounds, then even running by the 3rd or 4th round may prove to be a valuable conservation of damage. To illustrate this a little more clearly, let's take a look at some examples.

Party: Fighter, Red Mage, Black Belt, White Mage (a strong non-thief party)
Level: 6
Area: Marsh Cave

Battle 1: Crawl, Red Bone, and 3 Bones

This is a tough battle - arguably one of the toughest in the Marsh Cave (excluding bosses). Red Bones have a very strong physical attack. Stronger than a Muck even. Combine this with the fact that there's a good chance the fighter will be paralyzed by the Crawl without even getting a shot off, and it is easy to see the danger here. However, the nice thing is that Red Bones are vulnerable to FIRE and HARM magic. Taking this into consideration, it is possible to focus-fire and remove the Red Bone within the first couple rounds of play (HARM will get rid of the Bones as well). Once the Red Bone is gone, nothing else can inflict significant damage (Crawls usually only hit for 7 or so even against a light-armored character). Therefore, it should be easy to see that not much is gained from running here. Again, that is not to say one should never run from this battle, but on average, will not gain relatively as much from doing so.

Battle 2: 2 Crawls, and 3 Bones

While almost identical to Battle 1, the change from a Red Bone to an additional Crawl is huge in how it affects the dynamics of the battle. Even though the enemies will deal less damage per round, the battle is now expected to take longer, for two reasons. First, with two Crawls, the fighter is now going to be paralyzed about 75% of the time by the end of round 1, with other characters soon to follow. More paralysis means more time. Second, unlike Bones and Red Bones, Crawls are difficult to take out quickly. They aren't weak against any particular magic, and they have a higher physical evade than their undead allies. It follows that running is usually going to be a better decision here.

Battle 3: 2 Arachnids, 1 Spider, 1 Scum, and 1 Muck

Here we have an interesting battle that is not quite as difficult, chiefly because Mucks are not as strong as Red Bones, and there is no danger of paralysis. Mucks are weak against LIT, and due to their strong physical attack, should be taken out immediately. This can usually be done in the first round. The rest of the battle should flow smoothly. Poison is annoying, but one normally has an adequate supply of PURE before going into an area like this. This battle is almost always a must fight.

Battle 4: 4 Scum

Now we take a look at an example of the extreme opposite situation. Unless one can afford to blow 4 spells on a single battle, which is not usually the case, this battle will take a long time to win due to the high defense of the Scum - all characters will hit for 1 or 2 damage unless they get lucky with a critical. The exp and gold is not great, and the poison often ends up doing a fair amount of damage over the course of the entire battle. Running here is usually the right instinct.

Paul
10-18-2006, 09:38 AM
you could have just said "thief's running skill is very useful!"

Sefie1999AD
10-18-2006, 02:51 PM
Against some enemies in the Ice Cave in the WSC or PSX versions, such as Sorcerers and Mages, I'll become really desperate if I can't escape as soon as possible, and often a Thief is a party saver there. Thief's enhanced skills to run away from battles are also good to use if you're running low on healing, or if you need to save some strength (Marsh Cave and Earth Cave come to my mind quickly).

theundeadhero
10-18-2006, 04:34 PM
The only reason to ever run in this game is against the Mages in the Ice Cave, fighting some no direct damage monsters in the Marsh Cave, or when somebody dies. Ever. I've never had a problem in parties without a theif. They make it out the first or second try.

ReloadPsi
10-18-2006, 08:53 PM
Thief's running skill? I hardly ever use it. The Thief's abilty to turn into a Ninja though... oh baby!

Nerevarine
10-23-2006, 04:41 PM
sure you may not completly need him come the marsh cave but what about when it comes time for that ice cave, or the castle of ordeals, or even the final temple of fiends which all house sorcerers which are rather hard to run away from and can kill you in one hit that may only do like three damage and paralyze the whole dam party.

Black Mage FF1
10-23-2006, 05:11 PM
On the nes version. Once any character gets 15 or more luck and they are in the first or second slot; they will run just as good as a thief.

Martyr
10-23-2006, 08:12 PM
On the nes version. Once any character gets 15 or more luck and they are in the first or second slot; they will run just as good as a thief.

And how long does that take?

Black Mage FF1
10-23-2006, 10:11 PM
On the nes version. Once any character gets 15 or more luck and they are in the first or second slot; they will run just as good as a thief.

And how long does that take?

Not too long for the black mages. But other for other characters it can take a while. I'm just sayin.

Anyway, any team of four (w/o a thief or w/o a thief in the first two rows) characters has about 80% chance of running away. So really, taking a thief just for his ability to run is a pretty dumb reason.

Sefie1999AD
10-23-2006, 11:09 PM
In FF1 WSC, a party of Fighter, Fighter, Red Mage, White Mage sometimes took me 3-4 turns until they managed to run away from a battle even though everyone was able to try on every turn (no one was paralyzed or dead). This happened in the Ice Cave. That is just unacceptable, especially when 3 Mages love to ambush your party, and if you can't kill the Mages or escape on your first turn (which is after the Mages have used up two turns), you're pretty much dead as no party can survive 4-6 Fire3 spells and maybe a few Banes at that part of the game.

When I had a team of Fighter, Thief, Red Mage and White Mage (Fighter changed to Thief), I had at least 5 battles where I would have been a goner if the Thief hadn't got himself a turn and escaped. I eventually beat the Ice Cave without dying there. On the other hand, I had a team of Fighter, Black Belt, White Mage and Black Mage, and that almost drove me nuts when I got decimated in the Ice Cave so many times. I think I beat it on my 7th try or so, and even then I skipped all the treasures, IIRC.

You may say taking a Thief for his running ability is a dumb reason, but I'd say getting out of the Ice Cave alive, without feeling like throwing the game console to the wall and out of the window, is a pretty good reason to take the Thief with you. :D Honestly, Ice Cave is the hardest FF dungeon I've ever faced. Not even FFII DoS: Souls of Rebirth is as hard (you'll die there more, and the enemies are tougher, but at least you can save after every battle). Note that this was in the WSC version, not NES or DoS.

Nerevarine
10-24-2006, 04:15 AM
if your gonna take a thief just for runnin away that is kind of dumb. the ninja is more of the reason i pick a thief over a BB or a second fighter. Not to mention he is cheaper than a 2nd fighter and has more absorb than the master will ever have. he uses armor that no one else at the end should or can use so thats never an issue. his katana is the third best sword in the game. AND he has an average black magic spell catalog where bb/master cant ever use magic and the knights selection for magic is rather crappy. o and he can still run away if necessary. i wouldnt say that thieves pwn, but there better then a lot of other choices in my eyes.

Crossblades
10-24-2006, 01:56 PM
I barely run away from a battle. On my 2nd playthrough, I added Thief just so I can transform him into a Ninja

Denmark
10-25-2006, 01:23 AM
on my latest playthrough, i was able to run from all runawayable battles within two turns, most of them on the first. this was with a fi/fi/fi/rm party, btw.