Japan vs. English

[dodhungry]

I dont know if this is true on some of the other servers but on Carby there has been a issue...Jap players do not want anythig to do with "American" players so they disregard all English speaking players.

It has even come to the point where it has been sugested to make an all Jap server and all English server.

To give an example of this: Me Party Ldr in Quifim: We need to find two people to finish off the pt.. I use the auto translator to ask a Jap speaking only player if he/she wanted to join us..In the search box they said nothing about a jap only pt so I figured they would take me up on the offer....well no response ever came...Little bit later I found a bilaungual person who again asked this Jap only player...they responded found out it had English people in the pt got mad and left..wtf?

So anyother comments on this issue and what do you think the problem is?

[Fuego]

Yes that does happen, i get a party invite they are JP speaking only ... so to be nice i tell them i can speak alittle but i can't understand the characters, so please auto translate when speaking to me.

I get a tell back sayin' I'm sorry and they invite someone else.

I have also had that happen to me they won't join because american people in party.

I have heard from a bilingual person that JP players don't like american players because they have horrible game etiquette (meaning they force Disconnection instead of finding a rep or even sayin' they are leaving soon or they just plain (on the whole as i understand it) suck and drag the party down.

I know its rude to do that, i don't think like that, but i understand the reasoning. Again, I don't like it ... ITS JUST A GAME !!!!!!!

But lately i have had some really nice JP players invite me and accept my invite so i don't think its as bad on Garuda as it is on Carby.

[Yeargdribble]

Honestly, I don't like playing with American players either. American players are often more rude and disorganized. They set up very short PTs, are badly equipped, don't take advice or instruction well, and leave abruptly.

I often play late at night specifically to play with JPs. If you understand and respect their culture it can work to your advantage. They are very loyal players. They will go out of their way to help out people in their PT even if it hurts XP/hr. Once as a noob I died in SSG in a JP PT (on my WHM). One of the members went to Norg, changed to DRK/WHM to tractor and raise me before going back and changing again to resume XP.

In a NA PT recently someone got a link in CN. Two people threw up a Warp Scroll and just ditched us immediately and dropped PT. I have never experienced such behavior from JP players. They seem to respect the time and effort of the real people playing this game.

Lately I've been playing almost static with a JP COR. He knows I'm well equipped and play THF well so he asks me to XP with him before my flag is even up.

In lower areas there is even more reason to not accept NA invites. NA PTs in low areas like Qufim are god awful. Underleveled subs, bad players, bad attitudes.




Now there are JPs that are just racists the same way some NAs are just racist. I'm not gonna say all JPs are great players or incredibly nice, but they tend to have more skilled and well mannered players than NAs do. You may say it's just a game, but when you play poorly or drop a PT abruptly you are wasting the time of real life people.

[Rostum]

Some Japanese players want to play with English players, some don't. It's either because NA players are pretty stupid, or that they don't like the language barrier (the auto-translate function pretty much sucks).

It's been like this for a very long time.

[Fuego]

I didn't mean 'its just a game' when people who bail on the party without warning or crappy players or bad attitudes and so on to say its ok to do because it pisses me off and i think its no good and i don't wanna deal with that either.

But to automatically just say hey i won't lvl with you because it could happen is no good either !

[Ouch!]

Many of my best parties have been with Japanese players. I'd go as far as saying a significant majority of them were. I don't often run into JP players who are uninterested in partying with NA players. I've gotten invites to parties that were all JP except for me. My search comment always says "JP/EN OK {I don't speak any Japanese}" so they know what they're getting into. It works out well, as I don't require much instruction from them in most situations. The most I usually have to ask is "{sub} {White Mage} {Black Mage} {Which?}" and the rest is good to go.

[Mirage]

I still think it's weird how so few Japanese players seem to know English. I'm not English myself, and I know a ton of others who aren't but still speak (or atleast write) it fluently. I'm not expecting fluent english from most Japanese players, but enough to make themselves understood really isn't too much to ask for, I think.
I don't think I've had a lot of Japanese players that has rejected a party invite because I don't speak Japanese. Not if they've got their flag up. And I agree that the overall quality of a party usually is better with more japanese players. Maybe they're just more dedicated/played for a longer time, I don't think it has got a lot to do with intelligence.

[Miriel]

I've partied with plenty of JP players. Some of them were AWESOME. And some of them sucked. Yeah, a lot of times JP players who know what they're doing make exping go by a lot quicker, but I really don't like generalizations. Some people treat JP players like they're god, when plenty of them are inept and frustrating to party with.

That being said, I don't blame anyone, NA, JP, or anyone else for wanting to party with people they communicate with. That doesn't make someone racist. Now if JP people went around saying that they don't want to party with NA players because they think NA players are worthless human beings. Well, yeah, that's pretty racist. But I've never run across any JP player like that. I think a lot of it has to do with being able to communicate easily in a party situation.

And even though I completely understand having a preference toward one group or another, I think it's silly to completely rule out one portion of the playing population simply because they're not from the same nation or speak the same language as you. You gotta at least give people a chance.

[Del Murder]

I don't see how it is weird for Japanese people to not know English. It's not weird when Americans don't know Japanese.

Most of the time I like to party with players who speak English. They could be Japanese or American, that part doesn't matter. The party and the game is just a lot more fun when you can communicate and chat with the people you are playing with. Of course, I'd rather play with some competent harcore Japanese players than some immature American players, of which there are a few, especially at lower levels.

Once or twice I've asked Japanese players if they wanted to party to get no response. That sort of bugs me. At least say 'No thanks' or something. Can't say I've had a problem getting invites from Japanese players. My job (PLD) has a pretty high demand so I guess that helps. I've been in an all-Japanese party before and other than the fact that we didn't talk to each other it worked out well.

[Markus. D]

I like the ones that balance between both n_n

that way they could backstab me and I wouldnt have to care :3

edit: and then I can reply in that same certain language, silence them, continue partying, lovely ^-^

[Mirage]

I don't see how it is weird for Japanese people to not know English. It's not weird when Americans don't know Japanese.
The Japanese language isn't considered as international as the English language. Few countries outside of Japan teach Japanese in school. This is not the case with English.

[Yeargdribble]

Actually most JPs I play with do know just enough English to get by. I still don't think we should put a higher expectation on them to know a language foreign to them however.

Learning some basic japanese isn't that hard either. Once you get past learning hiragana and katakana you'll find that JP language structure is much easier than that of English. The only really difficult part is learning Kanji and adjusting to slang.


The language barrier can be a huge nuissance for many reasons. NAs use the translator poorly. People say stupid things like {May}{bee} and the like. {Pull back!} is another thing to not use, though JPs have adapted and learned some of our horrible misuse of the translator. An example is {sub} which actually refers to your shield slot, not your subjob.

Also, with more inexperienced players it can be beyond the terms available in the translator to explain compliated PT issues like how to line up for SATA. When the option is available I can totally understand why a JP player would choose a JP PT. I'd say it's the same on the flip side. Many NAs would prefer to stick with NA PTs when it's an option rather than being the one odd-man-out in a JP PT.

[SoupForInsanity]

I agree in saying not to put high expectations on people from other countries to speak english. That's just kind of rude in my opinion.
I grew up in Osaka, my first language is English but am fluent in Japanese as well... so I guess that's kind of fun, and makes me more interested in the game. I have yet to buy it- still figuring out how to upgrade my computer, if at all.
So when I do get the game, just out of curiousity, so I don't label myself a dork, do the japanese players typically roleplay or act like normal human beings?
So... In my schools in Osaka, while they were fairly good schools, the english teaching sucked. It became a habit to put my head down and try to ignore the teacher, otherwise I'd have to correct them, and that got old. I've noticed people who have gone to certain colleges have their english improved dramatically, but most just a) don't like english b)It's difficult so they don't like to use it when they don't have to, or c) care.
I'm just basing that on my own personal friends mind you... there are the rare few that like English, but most of my friends tell me to shut up when I try to get them to practice.

[Miriel]

I don't see how it is weird for Japanese people to not know English. It's not weird when Americans don't know Japanese.
The Japanese language isn't considered as international as the English language. Few countries outside of Japan teach Japanese in school. This is not the case with English.

French is taught in schools all around the world. And in practically every high school in America. Do Americans know how to speak French? Even conversationally? I sure don't, and I 've taken French classes before. It's totally unrealistic to think that Japanese people *should* know how to speak/write English just because English is an international language. French is just as international, and so is Chinese and Spanish. I do think it's asking a bit too much for JP players to learn english enough to communicate with us because obviously, there are plenty of NA players who don't extend that kind of effort and courtesy to the JP players.

[Mirage]

I disagree, I don't think of Spanish, French and Chinese as nearly as international as English.
Furthermore, I never said I expected them to know English, it is in fact more the opposite. When I see a JP player, I assume he doesn't speak English.
The thing is, I see plenty of French, Italians, Swedes, Germans, Spaniols, Portugese, Polish, Greek, even Brazilian people online, and they all have had understandable English. While I do understand that English is a harder language for Japanese people (due to not being in the same language family), it is far from impossible to learn it, and they do actually learn English at school. I think it's strange that so few of those I've met ingame know English, I don't expect them to know the language.

To me it also seems as if some people in this thread assume all English speakers are North American too :(.

[Fuego]

I think it'd be easier to learn a language if there were a place near you that spoke the language that you could easily travel to.

Like for me, i live in texas ... its kinda hard to goto japan to interact with people to learn and practice japanese. And here in texas there aren't many people here who do speak it as a primary language. I could learn french easier due to my location ... lousianna or canada (creole). Spanish from mexico.

But when i attemp to communicate with people online (japanese) i alway keep my mini english to japanese translator with me :tongue:

I don't wanna insult some one unknowingly ...

[SoupForInsanity]

While I don't mean to be feeding an argument/discussion here more than it needs to be, I still feel a tad offended at your arguments...
I understand you're saying that you don't expect fluent english from Japanese players but... statements like this

I'm not expecting fluent english from most Japanese players, but enough to make themselves understood really isn't too much to ask for, I think.

While I do understand that English is a harder language for Japanese people (due to not being in the same language
family), it is far from impossible to learn it, and they do actually learn English at school. I think it's strange
that so few of those I've met ingame know English, I don't expect them to know the language.
are a little... strange themselves I think. I don't like to pick apart what people say, but things like this DO bother me.
Remember, this is a game made in Japan, by a Japanese company, on a Japanese system (if you're playing PS2 version) with a story that was developed in Japanese. They have no obligation to you, to try to make themselves understood, even if you're not expecting them to be fluent or whatever, you shouldn't be "asking for" them to make themselves understood to -you-, because -you- are able to speak an international language. Even if they can speak English, who says they want to?
It -isn't- far from impossible to learn, and I have japanese friends that have done exchanges in other countries and have learned English, or other languages rapidly (like most people when immersed). But if they haven't had the chance to spend lots of time in another country (like many people in many countries) they would not have enough exposure to the language to really get a good handle on it, and also do not have the best teaching methods, either (from what I've seen.)
Europe, etc. is a different case. It is more closely tied with America, the English language (yes, of course english is not only America), and culture than Japan ever was and is today, despite the heavy influence of American and other foreign cultures there.
A European, etc. child would most definately have more exposure and reason to use English than a Japanese child would.
Again, I know you don't expect them to speak English, but don't be surprised at it either. It kind of sounds by the way you stated those arguments that you -did- expect more, but now you only expect less than "average".

[Ouch!]

I disagree, I don't think of Spanish, French and Chinese as nearly as international as English.
Mandarin is the international language of the business world, even moreso than English.

[Lionx]

I disagree, I don't think of Spanish, French and Chinese as nearly as international as English.
Mandarin is the international language of the business world, even moreso than English.


QFT

My opinion however, is that i rather have a good NA party since i can understand them, instead if picking out parts of the japanese's Kanji and trying to figure out what they say in bits and pieces.

[Rostum]

I disagree, I don't think of Spanish, French and Chinese as nearly as international as English.
Furthermore, I never said I expected them to know English, it is in fact more the opposite. When I see a JP player, I assume he doesn't speak English.
The thing is, I see plenty of French, Italians, Swedes, Germans, Spaniols, Portugese, Polish, Greek, even Brazilian people online, and they all have had understandable English. While I do understand that English is a harder language for Japanese people (due to not being in the same language family), it is far from impossible to learn it, and they do actually learn English at school. I think it's strange that so few of those I've met ingame know English, I don't expect them to know the language.

To me it also seems as if some people in this thread assume all English speakers are North American too :(.

I think you need to understand that Europe has a lot of different languages in it's country, and the lifestyle is a lot diffferent to Japan. In Europe they pretty much have to learn English fluently.




I disagree, I don't think of Spanish, French and Chinese as nearly as international as English.
Mandarin is the international language of the business world, even moreso than English.


QFT


Quoted for even more truth!

[Mirage]

While I don't mean to be feeding an argument/discussion here more than it needs to be, I still feel a tad offended at your arguments...
I understand you're saying that you don't expect fluent english from Japanese players but... statements like this

I'm not expecting fluent english from most Japanese players, but enough to make themselves understood really isn't too much to ask for, I think.

While I do understand that English is a harder language for Japanese people (due to not being in the same language
family), it is far from impossible to learn it, and they do actually learn English at school. I think it's strange
that so few of those I've met ingame know English, I don't expect them to know the language.
are a little... strange themselves I think. I don't like to pick apart what people say, but things like this DO bother me.
Remember, this is a game made in Japan, by a Japanese company, on a Japanese system (if you're playing PS2 version) with a story that was developed in Japanese. They have no obligation to you, to try to make themselves understood, even if you're not expecting them to be fluent or whatever, you shouldn't be "asking for" them to make themselves understood to -you-, because -you- are able to speak an international language. Even if they can speak English, who says they want to?
It -isn't- far from impossible to learn, and I have japanese friends that have done exchanges in other countries and have learned English, or other languages rapidly (like most people when immersed). But if they haven't had the chance to spend lots of time in another country (like many people in many countries) they would not have enough exposure to the language to really get a good handle on it, and also do not have the best teaching methods, either (from what I've seen.)
Europe, etc. is a different case. It is more closely tied with America, the English language (yes, of course english is not only America), and culture than Japan ever was and is today, despite the heavy influence of American and other foreign cultures there.
A European, etc. child would most definately have more exposure and reason to use English than a Japanese child would.
Again, I know you don't expect them to speak English, but don't be surprised at it either. It kind of sounds by the way you stated those arguments that you -did- expect more, but now you only expect less than "average".

It's just what I've experienced ingame. Most japanese players I've seen or partied with have either not been able to, or chose not, to communicate in English. Maybe I've just had some bad luck, I don't know. One thing I do know though, is that if I knew Japanese, I would do my best to communicate with other japanese players in a party. Likewise, if a Japanese person happens to know English, I think he should use English to communicate with non-Japanese players in a party. Choosing not to use it just because he doesn't want to (like you suggested) makes no sense to me, really.
If a japanese player is good at English, I become happy, because it becomes much easier to communicate with that person.

Okay, "not too much to ask for" was perhaps a bit over the edge. I retract that statement, sorry. If they don't know it, it's kinda silly to expect them to learn it for just the sake of this game.

And i think this: "Remember, this is a game made in Japan, by a Japanese company, on a Japanese system (if you're playing PS2 version) with a story that was developed in Japanese." is pretty irrelevant. The game is released for Europeans and Americans just as much as for Japanese players. I don't think this should have anything to do with this discussion. If the game was released only in Japan, and foreigners had to import it, then this would have been a valid point.



I disagree, I don't think of Spanish, French and Chinese as nearly as international as English.
Mandarin is the international language of the business world, even moreso than English.

I'm not talking about the business world.

[Rostum]

It's just what I've experienced ingame. Most japanese players I've seen or partied with have either not been able to, or chose not, to communicate in English. Maybe I've just had some bad luck, I don't know. One thing I do know though, is that if I knew Japanese, I would do my best to communicate with other japanese players in a party. If a Japanese player knows English but choose not to use it in a party with non-Japanese, I think he's being silly. If a japanese player is good at English, I become happy, because it becomes much easier to communicate with that person.

Okay, "not too much to ask for" was perhaps a bit over the edge. If they don't know it, it's kinda silly to expect them to learn it for just the sake of this game.

I think you need to understand that Japan is still very racist (generalized statement, but oh well), and a lot of them won't talk to you in english because they think you are scum. It's the harsh reality.

It's also not just a matter of them not being able to communicate, so they won't party with you. It's because there are so many stupid NA players (and they classify other english countries as being NA for some reason), and they hate them. I remember seeing a search comment by a Japanese player from NewCompany (known to be very very racist and monopolized a lot of FFXI), which pretty much said "Die you english bastards" or something to that effect.

I mean, Japan has only opened themselves to the world in the last 100 years or so, wasn't it? I guess that's not much excuse, seeing as there are still NA players who'll be racist towards the Japanese as well.



I'm not talking about the business world.

It does not matter, it is still known to be a very popular international language.

[Mirage]

I think you need to understand that Japan is still very racist (generalized statement, but oh well), and a lot of them won't talk to you in english because they think you are scum. It's the harsh reality.

I know, I was just trying to keep that stuff out of this discussion





I'm not talking about the business world.

It does not matter, it is still known to be a very popular international language.
Okay, not going to deny that, because I don't know.
I just know I know of a lot more countries that teach English as the main secondary language than Mandarin. I'm guessing Mandarin is popular in the business world because very many in the west do business with the Chinese. I don't think it's the same for Average Joe though.

[SoupForInsanity]

And i think this: "Remember, this is a game made in Japan, by a Japanese company, on a Japanese system (if you're playing PS2 version) with a story that was developed in Japanese." is pretty irrelevant. The game is released for Europeans and Americans just as much as for Japanese players. I don't think this should have anything to do with this discussion. If the game was released only in Japan, and foreigners had to import it, then this would have been a valid point.

It is relevent in respect to your other statement that you retracted about "not too much to ask for." The rest of that sentence, and not just that part ties it in. My only point with that statement was that if it were a game originally produced in English for Xbox, it might be someone's opinion that having international players speak english wouldn't be much to ask for (which I don't agree with, but that might be a valid opinion, anyways.) Yes, the game is released outside of Japan for a wide variety of players, not just one nationality of them. That's not what I was trying to say- and now that you took back your statement I guess this doesn't really need to be said, but it IS a valid point when you consider your first statement ("not too much to ask for") and what I said about it being a Japan-produced game.
Going back to that English/Xbox idea... even if it was created for people worldwide, wouldn't you feel a bit iffy if a Chinese person came and said "having them at least try to make their Chinese understandable isn't too much to ask for." What might the initial reaction be of your typical English speaking North American be? "If you don't like the english, don't play."
It is a completely different situation, I understand. I thought I would just elaborate on why I said that....

[dodhungry]

wow didnt realize this to be such a hot topic but hey thats good :D

anywayz
To me it also seems as if some people in this thread assume all English speakers are North American too :(
I think it is quite interesting that a lot of people assume if you speak English you must be from NA.

So if all this communication is an issue why dont SE make launage specific servers? In character information when creating a character just choose a launage you want and it automaticly sets you up in that launage server. (I realize its too late now but for future reference or something)


just out of curiousity, so I don't label myself a dork, do the japanese players typically roleplay or act like normal human beings

Most I have seen try to be themself...wheather its acting all racist or being a cool JP its all up to them.. I have seen both extreams. Oh as for me I try not to be racist but its rather difficult when some JP players vow to make your gaming experiance awful.. ie steal a NM you have been farming for hours or just ignoring you for no reason.

[Fuego]

There is http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-43,GGLG:en&q=FFXI+japanese+guide for incase you want to atleast try to speak to them in their own language
(it makes a difference if JP's see you as tryin' to speak to them in a way they can understand -at least i have seen for me that it does)
... i have a compilation of such guides that has pretty much all i would need to say to a JP person ... of course i can't read the characters, so i try to keep my questions or whatnot simple to maybe just a >yes please< or >no thanks<

Also there are Japanese>>>english dictionarys on the web that you can use to check what a word translation would be ... some links include :
http://www.trussel.com/f_nih.htm and
http://www.freedict.com/onldict/jap.html

I hope this helps ...

[dodhungry]

omg I never even thought about looking up a JP dictionary to help solve the communication issue

I am now linking this thread to my LS. :D

[Yeargdribble]

The only thing that is dangerous about the dictionaries is that sometimes you can't be aware of the type of word you are using. Certain words could potentially be deemed slight offensive or condescending when they mean the same thing as another word. Just for refrence be aware that Japanese sentence structure works roughly as SOV (Subject Object Verb) where English works as SVO. Though I'm sure if you were just picking out words, most would figure out what you were trying to say. Most JPs aren't gonna communicate in romaji so unless you are able to read kana and some kanji it will be a very one way conversations, though most JPs seem to be more proficient with the translator than NAs.



Fuego's from Texas? I'm from the Longview area in NE Texas. Where are you? (Have we had this conversation before?)

[Fuego]

No i don't think we have ... i live in austin texas :D

I am glad to help Dodhungry :bigbiggri

And yea Yeargdribble is right ... you have to be careful what words you use some have multipule meanings and other may mean one thing in one context and another in another context.

Some of those links have full sentances like
"Glad to have you, looking for more - Yorosiku, hokanohito mo sasotte imasu" >.<
or
I'll be the second-line healer and use weaken magic- Kaifuku nibanmeto jakutai mahou ikimasu" :tongue:

[SoupForInsanity]

Aw, what a handy thing to have online! but yeah, seeing as their response would probably be in characters, if you really wanted to party with Japanese players it's not that hard to learn hiragana/katakana... if you study hard it can be done in 2 weeks...

[Mirage]

The problem is that I need to study something else for the next 8 months, so there's simply not enough time...

[SoupForInsanity]

Well, you don't have to if you don't want to, it was just a suggestion for anyone who did have the time and was interested.:)

[Mirage]

Thb, I do want to learn the language. I tried at a point, but I didn't get very good.

[Jimsour]

I party with Japanese all the time.

First of, I use windower and I have an IME installed so I can type in the Japanese alphabet; I also learned myself enough japanese to get a party and not talk often.

I've asked bilingual japanese players while having a conversation in crap parties, "is it true japanese players do not like americans and europeans?" and they put it bluntly: "No, it is not true". I got these reasons why some japanese do not like to play with english speakers:

1. Language barrier. Japanese players communicate a lot and the auto translator is just a pain in the arse to use.

2. English parties do not usually last very long. You've had it happen before, you spend half an hour getting a party ready, you get to your camp, you kill 5 monsters and your Paladin or Red mage turns around and says "oh crap, gotta go, bye", warps out, and logs off and leaves everyone standing there annoyed. This very rarely happens in Japanese parties, when they log on they clear their day basically.

3. A lot of Japanese players are generally not 14 year olds. Most I've spoken too are in their 20s.

4. Racism. Yes, there are racist Japanese. There are also racist English players. This clashes often.

If you want a Japanese party or to party with Japanese you should take into consideration how they play. If you dont want to do that, do not party with Japanese players.

Japanese players leave town toghether, they go back to town toghether, etc. They dont have one person racing out to camp while 3 others are at the AH and another in another town like in many english parties. Small things like this make a difference and your name travels fast between them.. I've made a few Japanese friends (as in, /wave'ing terms and the occassional /tell in basic japanese) because I didnt act like a cock. And likewise, I've had Japanese players not believe I was an english speaking player at all and thought I was a Japanese person in disguise. They also ask to check each other (usually through /tell) and are very courteous with each other at first.

[Garland]

2. English parties do not usually last very long. You've had it happen before, you spend half an hour getting a party ready, you get to your camp, you kill 5 monsters and your Paladin or Red mage turns around and says "oh crap, gotta go, bye", warps out, and logs off and leaves everyone standing there annoyed. This very rarely happens in Japanese parties, when they log on they clear their day basically.

This is a common complaint about NA parties, and it's pretty indisputable - happens all the time. Maybe it's a Quetzalcoatl phenomenon though, but the JP have their own variation of this offense in which they all <>Time for work<>, or <>I'm sleepy<> and warp simultaneously, and without notice, in the middle of a party. With the hours I play (late night-early morning EST), if I get an invite, it's probably JP. Just something I noticed. NA parties have their problems, and I'll be the first to say so. I hate it when someone just takes off w/o notice. In a NA/JP mixed party, the loss of all your JP constituents simultaneously can all but destroy an exp session. At least NAs tend to bail on an individual basis. I have yet to see NA's turn party bailing into a team sport like the JP counterparts. Not yet anyway. Well, maybe. I do tend to use someone else bailing as an excuse to bail a bad party myself w/o being rude. I dunno.

[Jimsour]

2. English parties do not usually last very long. You've had it happen before, you spend half an hour getting a party ready, you get to your camp, you kill 5 monsters and your Paladin or Red mage turns around and says "oh crap, gotta go, bye", warps out, and logs off and leaves everyone standing there annoyed. This very rarely happens in Japanese parties, when they log on they clear their day basically.

This is a common complaint about NA parties, and it's pretty indisputable - happens all the time. Maybe it's a Quetzalcoatl phenomenon though, but the JP have their own variation of this offense in which they all <>Time for work<>, or <>I'm sleepy<> and warp simultaneously, and without notice, in the middle of a party. With the hours I play (late night-early morning EST), if I get an invite, it's probably JP. Just something I noticed. NA parties have their problems, and I'll be the first to say so. I hate it when someone just takes off w/o notice. In a NA/JP mixed party, the loss of all your JP constituents simultaneously can all but destroy an exp session. At least NAs tend to bail on an individual basis. I have yet to see NA's turn party bailing into a team sport like the JP counterparts. Not yet anyway. Well, maybe. I do tend to use someone else bailing as an excuse to bail a bad party myself w/o being rude. I dunno.

I've had it happen a few times but in comparison to English speaking players (not just north american, us Europeans do it from time to time ;) ) it happens less when I've been partying, in the end we're all human, so things like that are going to happen anyway. :p

[Fuego]

If i'm in a bad party, loose'n more exp then i'm gettin' and just eatin' through my xp with deaths, i will tell the party that i have to go, i don't care if they think i'm bein' rude or not. I don't expect others to stay in a party if they are die'n alot and we're as a team not gettin' any exp...

I think its great when others make it seem like its outta the blue when i'm like 'Duce' because they see me gettin' slaughter'd and we have to wait on me to get unweakened ... at least i don't force disconnect never to return.

In instances like that i can definately understand someone bail'n...

If on the other hand someone's like meh, i don't wanna play anymore thats somethin' totaly different. I have never had a group of JP people just warp and log on me. I didn't know they did that.

[Garland]

It's not nearly as prevalent as "hay guyz i hav to go aftr i lvl k?" - which seems to be an NA thing. Still, it happens to me often enough to be noticed. On a side note, I think any parties I make from now on, I'm gonna kick on the spot, anyone who says they need to leave after they level. Because we all know "need to leave" really means "don't want to stay", and if said person is so busy, s/he should get a head start on that incredibly important task instead of exping anyway.

[Fuego]

It's not nearly as prevalent as "hay guyz i hav to go aftr i lvl k?" - which seems to be an NA thing. Still, it happens to me often enough to be noticed. On a side note, I think any parties I make from now on, I'm gonna kick on the spot, anyone who says they need to leave after they level. Because we all know "need to leave" really means "don't want to stay", and if said person is so busy, s/he should get a head start on that incredibly important task instead of exping anyway.LOL !!! Thats a good idea ... just be like o' thats fine Boot Bio-tch !
Well, i usually get the Disconnect never to return ... i don't know if its a NA thing or just a English speakin' thing ... (?) But usually when i'm in a PT i'll see someone Disconnect and we wait and wait but they never come back ... its sad when people in your LS do that crap to you when you're supposed to do an LS event ... *caugh* Sid last night *caugh*
LOL but its all good cause me red and toker took out the yag priest NM In castle oztroja without 'em ... We is baaad !!!

[Diyo]

I think Sid just don't like yall lol...cause he PL'ed me plenty of times...nd i partied with him plenty of times nd he never d/c'ed on me.....well atleast not how Red been gettin on him lol...anyway stayin on da subject ya know, I personally like partyin wit jap. players only because they seem to stay in parties foreva nd u get like 3 or 4 levels in one sitting, its always sumtin dat fucks up all the chicken in english parties lol...either sumbody gotta go or sum1's being a jackass nd takin the game wayyyyyyy to seriously...its alot mo stuff but i don't feel like getting into it...im not sayin there ain't jap players out dere dat act like dat because im sure it is, like dude said up dere in sum thread when it comes down to it we still all human ya dig..but from wat ive been through i perferr jap parties