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Martyr
10-22-2006, 09:40 PM
I know what you're thinking: Here's another guy who doesn't understand the leveling system.
Well, maybe.

You see, He's my white magic/sword char, and he's leveling, well, Awesomely.

I don't cheat much (except to raise levels of important and hard-to-level spells like like HEAL and LIFE, but never with weapons. It doesn't seem necessary) - but since I cheat with soul/spirit related stats, his soul has raised rapidly, but strength increased and remained the same.

Meanwhile, Guy, who has done NOTHING except for wield axes, staffs or dual wield axe/staff is hardly leveling his power/strength at all.

The problem is that Freeon up top is becoming massively overpowered, and I'm not even trying to make him that way, and it's dissappointing me.
Does this happen to you? Is it something built into his character that makes him level so insanely easily, while, Guy, who looks like he ougth to be buff as heck, has a power score 10 points less?

(Note: The problem may be that I acquired a mage staff early, from a monster drop, and it's a phenomenal weapon for this stage of the game, so when I use it, which I don't uless I hit a hard boss, but when I use it it will whack almost anything in one hit. I used it for a while, earlier.
My current theory is that Strength/Power won't rise if your character is killing foes in a single hit. Like, it's attatched to damage and not attack repetition, but with mithril swords at lv. 3-4, Frionel is killing in one hit as well, not to mention when he's not killing and he's healing instead.)

Where am I? Ice Cavern. Jordan just did his thing.

Evastio
10-24-2006, 12:35 AM
What Equipment does Firion and Gus have?

Martyr
10-24-2006, 12:39 AM
Firion has swords.

Gus, as you call him, has Axes and Clubs (I call them clubs because that somehow sounds cooler than Staffs or Canes. Or maybe it just sounds more barbaric.)

Evastio
10-24-2006, 01:06 AM
How about armor?

DJZen
10-24-2006, 01:23 AM
Better yet... Which version of the game? DoS? What is your CURRENT equipment setup? What are your stats?

Martyr
10-24-2006, 09:10 AM
Does all that really matter?

It's ff2j.

Look, I give Guy and Frionel the best armor I can get. Heavy, I guess.
Knight armor on each, because I braved Mysidia at an early level (BRSK2 cast 5 times on Guy will enable him to kill a Gygas, and the bombs only doo 100 or so damage if they don't hit Maria after FIRE2. The rest is luck and constant resetting to make sure you don't run into ANY other type of enemies)

Heavy armor should increase strength, right?
You know the weapons. I don't cheat on them, so it isn't like Frionel is getting more attacks in.
I DO give Frionel 2 swords occasionally, and sometimes I give him a shield. Guy never has a shield. He always dual or single wields axes or clubs.
They both have Giant gauntlets.
Frionel has tons of White magic, at high levels, now, so he's got heavy soul.

And right now, w/ gauntlets, Frionel has 50 str to Guy having 40.
Frionel also has 54 Spirit.
Guy has 60 Vit because he gets hit most. he gets hit a ton. He's got 3 times the HP of Frionel. (ThisI also don't understand. OBVIOUSLY, Guy gets hit FAR FAR more often than Frionel. And the 4th member gets hit more than Frionel too.I mean, Frionel's at the front, what the heck?)

DarkLadyNyara
10-24-2006, 11:43 AM
Alright. My two cents here. :twocents:


Does all that really matter?
Yes.

It's ff2j.

NES version? Origins? Dawn of Souls? We know it's FF2j, this is the forum for it.


Look, I give Guy and Frionel the best armor I can get. Heavy, I guess.

The heaviest armor is not by default the best armor. Often the opposite is true. Defense is nowhere near as important as evasion.


(ThisI also don't understand. OBVIOUSLY, Guy gets hit FAR FAR more often than Frionel. And the 4th member gets hit more than Frionel too.I mean, Frionel's at the front, what the heck?)


The fact that Firion is first in the lineup has no effect on how often he gets hit. To be honest, I'm not sure how they figure it, but this isn't like FFI where the formation determines the probability of being attacked. It wouldn't make sense that way if you think about it. :D

As for the rest, there are others who can explain the mechanics of the game far better than I can.

Martyr
10-24-2006, 05:24 PM
nes

And, Nyara, I've read that Evade is much better than defense, apparently, but my most evasive characters can't seem to get past an evade of 2.30%. (And it's usuallly 1.30. I'm being hopeful because I managed ONE of them to 2.05%)

I'm not going to wear light armor so I end up getting hit 3 out of 5 times when an enemy swingsat me 1/3 of the time, and then suffer full damage the rest of the time. I have a super high evade character, actually, right now. Layla. She starts with high evade, so her agility goes up fast, and I maintain that with light armor and a shield, and she takes damage like everybody else.

Captain Maxx Power
10-24-2006, 07:53 PM
With sufficient Agility and Weapon/Shield skills, it's not uncommon to be able to reach 99% Evade consistently throughout the last half of the game. Also note that your evasion is helped immensly by your Defense Multiplier, which goes up at random when you are subject to Physical attacks.

Martyr
10-27-2006, 10:14 AM
With sufficient Agility and Weapon/Shield skills, it's not uncommon to be able to reach 99% Evade consistently throughout the last half of the game. Also note that your evasion is helped immensly by your Defense Multiplier, which goes up at random when you are subject to Physical attacks.

I have no earthly idea what you're talking about.
Do you?

Obviously, using a shield with Frionel all this time has been an absolut waste of energy. Maria has done nothing but carry 2 shields, since her agility raises even if she doesn't level the shields and casts only.
Her agility is great, and she attacks first and runs often. And if somebody takes a swing at her, she gets hit, like everybody else.

I do see that the Evade seems to go up as sills go up. Guy, with lv. 12 axes, great armor, who probably has been attacked 2/3 more than any other character over the course of the game (3000 HP, and I never once used friendly fire to raise it), and great stats, has 5.00% Evade, which is 2% higher than everybody else, who also have greater stats (and greater agility, because he never used a shield).

Awesome. I'm happy. But I'm 94% away from 99% evade.
I'll be honest, friend.
If he's got the best armor, ton's of times of having been attackes, and is 2/3 on the way to maxing out skill stats with his weapon, how is he going to improve that stuff by 1900% to increase his evade to what you think would be normal in the latter half of the game (He's in pandamonium)?

Answer: There is no way.

Your words are full of balogna, among other low quality meats.

DarkLadyNyara
10-28-2006, 12:40 AM
*reads above post. re-reads Pandaemonium rant. shakes head.*

Martyr
10-28-2006, 04:55 AM
*reads above post. re-reads Pandaemonium rant. shakes head.*

So you're saying that YOU believe that fairy tale crap too?

Have you played this game?

Frionel, naked, except for an Aegis shield and Excalibur, and a Thief Gauntlet which should be an evade assist, with 35 dex, lv 10 shields and lv 10 swords, right in front of me, with 5% evade.
If the rest relies on dex, which raises as monsters miss him, we can laughingly assume that this number can go up by 10%. (more like 4%)

That's the best I can conceive. If Evade raises a point for each weapon level (which it doesn't or else it'd be at least 20% right now), then the grand total would be 27% Evade. That'd be impressive. Becaus eit's a mythically impossibnly high number. That'd be an entire game worth of work, and it's be impressive and impossible. I'd guess the highest evade we're looking at, in reality, is maybe about 18%. If we're lucky.

It's absolutely NO 99% Evade.

So how about one of you guys explain this system which I seem to have bypassed completely, and seems to be impossible to use now.

Because I'm getting tired of everybody looking at me funny and saying, "What? You don't dodge all the attacks of the monsters by wearing virtually nonexistant armor and assuming that, as usual, your characters are never going to be hit?"

You really must realize how absolutely bogus this sounds when the numbers don't add up, and I have a game in front of me to test and ebunk your ridiculous theories with.

DarkLadyNyara
10-28-2006, 05:52 AM
Look, don't ask for help if you don't want it. It's annoying. Also, seeing as you haven't beaten the game, you might try not acting like you know more than people who have.

Martyr
10-28-2006, 07:34 AM
Look, don't ask for help if you don't want it. It's annoying. Also, seeing as you haven't beaten the game, you might try not acting like you know more than people who have.

Seeing as I now HAVE beaten the game, I'm prepared to act like I know everything!

It took 8 Elixirs to maintain Frionel's MP for healing, and I made sure I was full of life for EVERY fight. I leveled around Pandemonium until I got Awesome Evade Diamond Armor and Ribbons/Goldpins from the Q. Lamias, which meant getting scared and warping out and restarting a lot, actually, but whatever. It had to be done.
I found out that the killer Riders aren't as prominent as I had feared, and I absolutely TROUNCED everybody else without using shields or high dex.
And when I found the Emperor, I KILLED him. DED: Dead.


And now, NOW, I really still do want to know how the evade trick is possible. Because I still don't see how it works.
I mean, is it just something that has to be built up from the very start? Or what?

DarkLadyNyara
10-28-2006, 09:38 AM
Alright, I was needlessly bitchy. Sorry. But I was a rather irritated by your attitude. Asking someone to clarify something is fine. Attacking people who are trying to give advice ("Your words are full of balogna" "fairy tale crap" "your ridiculous theories" et cetera) is out of line.

And, yeah, it is best to start building it up early on. Also, evade level, and evade percent are bassed off different things. I'm not the best one to ask about game mechanics, however. I'm lousy at explaining them. :riiight:

BTW, congrats on beating the game. :D

Martyr
10-30-2006, 01:28 AM
Alright. Maybe some of my attitude from my less than pleasant gaming experience was bleeding over into my posting.

I'll try to be nicer on the forums. Or, at the very least, less annoying.

On another note:

If anybody else knows statistics on the evade deal, I'm still interested.

Thanks ya'll.

Captain Maxx Power
10-30-2006, 08:55 PM
Evade is made up of two seperate numbers, an Evade Multiplier and an Evade %. The Evade Multiplier is the number next to the Evade %. It starts at 1 for each of the characters. This is the number of attacks that that character can successfully evade. I'm not sure how the check goes, but say a monster attacks you three times. You "dodge" the first one, and automatically are hit by the next two attacks since your "evasion" was used up so to speak. It goes up randomly whenever you are the subject of a physical attack, regardless of if it actually damages you. The chances of it going up are static, meaning you have just as much chance of it going up against a random Goblin as you do against a Behemoth, and it can only go up once. In short, you need only be targetted once per battle for this statistic to possibly go up. It has a max value of 16.

Evade % is the number after your Evasion Multiplier. It is based almost exclusively on your stats, and doesn't not "level up" like your multiplier. It is effect by your Agility, Weapons being wielded, and the Armor you wear. Agility can be increased by evading attacks (hence why, later on in the game if you've not been building Agility it can become hard to increase). Weapons have a built-in Evasion% which increases with your weapon skill levels. Obviously Shields have the highest Evasion % out of all weapons. Armor has penalties to Evasion %, and the general consensus is that most of the larger, "heavier" armours are rubbish since they ruin the best way to avoid physical damage, which is evasion.

The following armours have little to no evasion penalty, and some even increase Evasion by increasing your Agility stat;

- Twist Headband
- White Robe
- Black Robe
- Power Vest
- Thief's Gloves
- Gold Hairpin
- Ribbon
- Black Garb

It is worth noting that one cannot exsist without the other. Having a high Evasion Multiplier and a low Evasion % is worthless, and vice versa. Obviously if you are late into the game it is much harder to level up these statistics as Agility only goes up as you evade attacks. The best place to go is the sewers in Bafsk, which hold enemies from much earlier on in the game (it's also a prime spot to gain HP/MP/Cure skill levels using the Swap magic). It will take a while, but since you can end battles quickly and need only be targetted to have a chance to increase your Agility/Evasion Multiplier you'd be surprised how quickly they can increase.

Martyr
10-31-2006, 10:06 PM
In that case, I'm just going to play a game of pure mages. The most powerful weapon I'm going to equip will have to be the Aegis Shield or, maybe, the initial Axe that Guy has at the start of the game.