Jobs? Where did you go???

[NINJA_Ryu]

With the new release of FF5 and FF3 comin out soon, with FF67 at a later date, i must ask. Why the skip in the ability of jobs over FF4? Is it the story? Is it because it was meant (american version at least) to introduce new people to the game? Or was it simply a change of pace?

Answers and disscussion proceed!

[Evastio]

I'm guessing it was more for a change of pace.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Restricting the party members to specific classes serves to make them more unique in battle. More importantly, when it's tied into the story, it even bolsters the depth of their character. They did the same thing with FFVI.

Would Lydia's role in the game's story be nearly as special if every character could be a summoner? Would it be nearly as memorable that Lock demands to be called a treasure hunter if everyone could be a thief? Why not just let everyone turn into a crazy pink Esper while you're at it?

[NINJA_Ryu]

Didnt know about FFVI one there, didnt play much of it. But the general consensus im ehearing is that they liked to shake it up a bit. To tie the charachters jobs more closely in with the story, and not as loose as in the FF before or after, am i right?

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Yes, prettymuch.

[Crossblades]

Every once in a while an FF game needs to have characters with fixed classes. It would make the story unique.

[feioncastor]

It's what makes FF4 so fun. You'll have a Black Magic user in your party for a while, and then right before a big boss fight, the mage will leave and you'll have to fight the boss without the black magic that you've become so dependant upon, mixing things up a bit.

[Sefie1999AD]

Having fixed classes also means you'll need to use all your characters and know how to use their special abilities. With fixed classes, you can't have a Juggernaut Tank character who deals 99,999 damage with his sword, takes 1 HP damage from every attack, can heal the party with Curaja and can cast Meteo and Bahamut, making the other characters pretty much useless. This not only makes your characters more individualistic (nobody is a carbon copy of one another), but it also adds challenge to the game.

[Ender]

Meh. As has been said, forcing your characters into one job facilitates storytelling. Rather than relying on a more general, heroes try to stop villain's scheme of destroying/taking over the world plot, you can actually drive the story with the characters. Indeed, I think many consider FFIV to have one of the best stories in the series.

But really it comes down to personal preference. In the FF series so far I've found I've enjoyed the extra dimension of customizing, "building" and experimenting with my characters over more restricted "interactive storytelling" like that found in FFIV. It's not that big a deal for me though; I do appreciate the change up--if the games all played the same they never would have gotten so many people to play all of them.

[Martyr]

If it's any help, people seem to think that FFIV and VI have the best storylines and character development, and this is definietlly one of the reasons.

Personally, I think that the best storyline and character development belongs to FF3, but I'm usually outvoted.

[Zechs]

Its a different approach to the games base. What is focused on in one may not be carried immediately by its predecessor, but may come back later. 1 (in a way), 3,5 and X2 only focused on job classes. The rest are implemented characters with their own personality and hence certain job titles issued.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

There's also the third type, in which there are no distinct jobs but every character can still do everything, such that the only real distinguishing characteristics between them are their Limit Breaks (or Limit Break equivalents).

[ValiantKnight]

1. Fixed but diff parties
2. Do anything
3. Jobs
4. Fixed
5. Jobs
6. Do anything but also kinda fixed a small amount I guess
7. Do anything
8. Do anything
9. Fixed mostly
10. Fixed til you get key spheres
T. Jobs
X2 ?


Something like that?

[Fatal Impurity]

Every once in a while an FF game needs to have characters with fixed classes. It would make the story unique.

so is this why FF10 has become so popular? if so how FF9 has gained its righteous place in the FF Hall of fame?

[bipper]

Jobs? Where did you go???

The economy went to /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif in a few games - Jobs were just hard to find.

I honestly agree that a class is a very descriptive element that is both fun to tweek your characters stats and even their attitudes in an role-playing sorta way. I do like the challenges put for in IV and the individualistic attributes played into VI, but I do love the job system - especially in V.

I do agree that the games are far better suited with a mixed approach, catering to different groups of fans at different times. It ads individuality to the game itself.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

While I do enjoy the Job System, having dedicated character classes also makes for interesting arcs. I do prefer Jobs over "eventually I can do EVERYTHING" though, it makes a lot of things obsolete and takes away the magic. I prefer characters to have to specialize in certain things or be a generalist that's weaker than the focused character. It gives it a more engrossing feel.

[feioncastor]

In traditional RPGs like Dungeons and Dragons, you're not gonna see many campaigns where any character can do just about anything, like FF7. You have various classes that all are important, in their own way. While Rydia does have the "Fight" command, it's obviously not what you'd have her do if you needed to kill an enemy quickly.

The Job system is a little better than FF7esque roustabouting. With jobs, you'll usually develop niches for each character. In a four character party, you'll make one guy a sword-guy, and one Black Magic user and so forth to make a complete balanced party.

Final Fantasy 4 takes away your control over the jobs, but they're still there. It makes it more challenging. For example, just before fighting Valvalis, you lose Tellah when he casts Meteo to destroy Golbez, making Valvalis the only one of the four fiends that you have to fight without Black Magic.

Things like this require you to strategize a bit more. While you might use the job system to make a party of all Paladins, that would definitely change the gaming experience.

Given Final Fantasy 4's gameplay and interface, a job system wouldn't work that well. Cave Magnes wouldn't be any challenge because you could just make everyone into mages and go for it.

Plus, the defined specialties emphasizes the characters themselves, a lot. What would Palom and Porom be if you make one into a Bard and one into a Thief? Part of what made those two cool as story characters was their interaction in battle, when using "Twin".

And Kain is a Dragoon. That's what he is. If someone tried to tell me it might've been cool to make Kain into a Red Mage or a Monk or something, I'd laugh at them. Kain's story revolves around him being a Dragoon, with lines like "Think you're the only one who can fight in the air?" That line wouldn't make much sense if you made Kain a Geomancer for that fight, you see?

A job system just wouldn't fit the game. You'd have to tear the game apart to work it in there, and I like FF4 as is, so I dont' want to see any tearing apart.

[rubah]

I don't like being stuck with the dumb abilities they give to fixed classed individuals. I'm talented enough at limiting myself to adjust the type of gameplay I get, so let me choose dangit.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

It's not a matter of whether they trust the player to be able to set up a decent party. It's about substantiating each character's personality by applying it to his actual abilities in gameplay.

[feioncastor]

It's not a matter of whether they trust the player to be able to set up a decent party. It's about substantiating each character's personality by applying it to his actual abilities in gameplay.

'Zactly.

Rydia is a caller, descended from a long line of callers, so changing her job to Bard or something doesn't really make sense, given her back story.

I think the only reason the other FF games make it possible to switch proficiencies with a job system is because the knowledge of the profession is usually contained in crystal shards or something. Once they gather the crystal shards, it enables them to apply themselves in ways they've never been trained. In FFT, it's more like a sequential line of work. You start with a weak weapon user, and he eventually learns how to use more diverse weaponry and gains skill in an expanded field of what he was before.

So you see, even job systems have a backstory. FF4's characters have stories way too solid. Logically, those guys couldn't be good at multiple profiencies, based on where they've came from.

[NINJA_Ryu]

Yang as a Dark Knight?

Cecil as a geomancer?

Kain as a bard?

Edward as a Soilder?

Preposterous!

im glad i made this thread, learnin alot ^ ^

[Martyr]

Cecil as a geomancer?


YES!!!

I almost wish we could play with classes just to toy with how preposterous the characters would be if you made it out like this. It'd be funny if the game played with you.

"I used to be a Dark Knight for the Emperor, but when I got the Paladin Sword, I became a Geomancer!"

*Casts a wind spell that backfires*

"Not too good at it."

*Dark Knight Rosa uses a potion on him*

[Del Murder]

One of the reasons I play this game over and over is because there isn't any decision making you have to do to develop your characters. Your biggest decision is pretty much whether to give Rydia a bow or a rod.

[Martyr]

One of the reasons I play this game over and over is because there isn't any decision making you have to do to develop your characters. Your biggest decision is pretty much whether to give Rydia a bow or a rod.

Or a whip, friend. Or a whip.

Never forget that if you give her a whip, imagine her clothes to be all black, and then change her class to Dominatrix... Well, maybe then we can get her an encore appearance in Final Fantasy 30.

[Del Murder]

Aren't there only like two whips in the game?

[Evastio]

There the Whip, the Chain Whip, The Blitz Whip, The Fire Lash, the Dragon's Whisker, and the Mist Whip.

[true_bacon22]

um ff5 has classes 4 never had class nor did 6 3 does the point is they are remaking them not making new games out of their asses .stupid thread.....

I don't see anyone twisting your arm to post in a thread that you think is stupid. If you have a problem with something, use the warn button, but comments such as this are not constructive so keep them out. ~ Leeza

[VeloZer0]

Not only are fixed character classes important for story development, but for a plot with such a revolving door party as IV flexibility can lead to problems. If you control what every character in the party can do you can balance encounters far better that if characters are more flexible.

Not to mention it is really frustrating having characters you have invested allot of time into coming and going from your party, which takes away from the story somewhat.

Enjoying character set up is one of my favorite aspects of gaming, but a plot like IV's would be very impractical with a more open system. And I like the FFIV plot quite a bit as it is. Nothing makes your battle seem so epic as when half the people don't walk away from it.

[Lawr]

The classes are also helpful when you are in the Giant of Babil and you fight all the Elementals at once, Like when Valvalis appears you have to Jump and when Scarmiglione appears you have use Ifirt or Fire3 and so on... if everyone could choose their classes or abilities, I could win the entire battle with just one character.

[Wild0ne]

They need to do something different with the job system.. FFIV was great without the system, but it lacked the customization...

They need to make something like a "growth" job system...such as.

Cecil -> Paladin > Mystic Knight > Holy Swordsman

Rosa -> White Mage > White Wizard > Cleric

Kain -> Dragoon > Lancer > Dragon Rider

Edge -> Ninja > Samuri > Master

Rydia -> Caller > Summer > Hooker

Well you get the idea....

[Wolf Kanno]

I agree the classes are more tied to the story than anything. I mean the main story of the game is Cecil, a Dark Knight with many crimes committed in his past becoming a Paladin, a legendary warrior of light who protect and heals rather than destroys. It was very symbolic and showed the player a level of depth to his character through a physical transformation. It would lose it's story impact if the player could just turn around and make him back into a dark knight or into something else.