Linux proselytizing thread

[Dr Unne]

Did you know you can try Linux safely on any computer without uninstalling or modifying your current OS, and in fact without installing anything at all? You can boot Linux directly from a CD, called a LiveCD; it will run without touching your hard drive at all. Linux will create an imaginary "drive" in your RAM and run from there. The downside is that when you reboot, you lose everything you did while in Linux; so this is really only useful to try out Linux temporarily, and if you want to use it for real you should install it to your hard drive.

These CDs are free for everyone. You can download and burn a copy yourself. Here are some places you can get a liveCD:

http://www.ubuntu.com/
http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html

Did you know Linux :

1. Is not evil.
2. Looks better than Windows.
3. Can do most things Windows can do as well as Windows can.
4. Can do a great many things that Windows cannot do.
5. Is free.
6. Comes by default with more software than you probably ever knew existed.
7. Can recognize most hardware nowadays.
8. Can happily co-exist beside other operating systems.
9. Is not subject to spyware and the vast majority of viruses.
10. Does not require much use of the command line if you don't want to use it.
11. Offers a lot more flexibility and customization than other operating systems.
12. Is extremely easy to install (easier than Windows in many cases).
13. Will teach you a lot about computers and how they work. Or not, if you don't care.
14. Is not evil.

I heartily endorse this product or service. If you use Linux, spread some love here. If you don't use it, why not?

[Moon Rabbits]

This Ubuntu interests me to no end. I've always wanted to try out Linux, since I like computers and et cetera, but I've ne'er been a hardxcore enough geek to be able to figure out the more computer-literate distros. Thanks for posting the information.

EDIT: Question! Will I have a problem running various games on a Linux OS, like I've heard? Should I keep my Windows XP installed for gaming?

[Dr Unne]

EDIT: Question! Will I have a problem running various games on a Linux OS, like I've heard? Should I keep my Windows XP installed for gaming?

Short answer: Yes, keep XP if you want to play games.

Long answer: some (very few) games play natively in Linux; others you would need to play under an emulator such as <a href="http://www.winehq.com/">WINE</a> or <a href="http://www.transgaming.com/index.php?module=ContentExpress&file=index&func=display&ceid=29">Cedega</a>. I have had mixed results with both. In fact some games play better emulated in Linux than they do in Windows (higher framerate etc.); but other games that lots of people swear work great, you could try for a month and never get to work. In my opinion it is not worth the trouble trying to get games to work in Linux. Dual-boot is a good option.

[rubah]

I just tried my first new os in a long time; osx. Once I get over teh shock of that, I'll start playing with bootcamp :p

[Yamaneko]

Cedega lacks SM 3.0 support, so newer games will not look as good or will not work at all under Linux. The upside to using Cedega is that you get the DirectX API without all the extra crap running in the background like you would under Windows. I still dual boot to XP to play games, though. Cedega also has a monthly fee.

Linux for everything else is great. I use Ubuntu 6.10 (Gnome-based distro). The install is super easy as long as you know a little bit about partitions (if you plan on dual booting) and everything is running well using Synaptic -- the package manager which contains a list of all your installed programs and thousands of other programs on the Ubuntu servers that you may want to install. And I second Unne's point that you can get Linux to look about 100 times better than Windows, especially with Beryl, the OpenGL compositing manager.

[Fire_Emblem776]

How large is Linux? Im tempted to get it since it has such a cool logo. Penguins ^_^

[Yamaneko]

The Ubuntu .iso (livecd image you burn onto a CD) is just under 700MB I believe.

[Fire_Emblem776]

Thanks good to know.

[Nominus Experse]

Hmmm, I have always wished to try Linux out.

I shall give this a try.

EDIT:

Yams, unne, and anyone else who has knowledge and experience with Linus, could you give details to the flexibility, options, etc... of Linux?

Like, what is this Beryl you speak of? And other things.

A simple link would suffice if you feel that would explain things better.

[o_O]

Gentoo Linux is the best thing that ever happened to my computer.

give details to the flexibility, options, etc... of Linux?

Like, what is this Beryl you speak of? And other things.

In Linux, you can change anything. Anything.
There is a package (or 10) in Linux that will do anything. You can install a package designed for one distribution onto any other distribution. Also, for any program in Windows, there are ten that do the same job, or better in Linux. Take Kopete or Gaim, for example.
All of the software is free. Free and open-source. That means that if you don't like a part of a program, you can get rid of it and recompile.

And for the Beryl thing, go to Google <a href="images.google.co.nz">Images</a> or <a href="video.google.co.nz">Video</a> and search "beryl" or "XGL". I would provide you with better links, but I'm posting this from my phone (running Familiar Linux), and it's a bit difficult to grab links. :p

[Leeza]

I will give Linux a try. :)

[Loony BoB]

I've always been meaning to do this someday, I just never get around to it. I'd rather have a completely seperate PC to try things out on.

Either way, I'd like an honest, unbiased detail as to what Linux can't do before I try it. I remember once Bleys was talking about Firefox and IE and he detailed all the reasons not to get Firefox. I'm the kind of person that prefers that kind of open honesty when being sold something - I want to know everything that can go wrong so I can prepare myself for such things. If you can do that, I'll be significantly more likely to test this all out.

One major question I have is how much of my existing software will be supported? This includes MS software such as Excel, Word and yes, possibly even IE. Also: AIM (with DeadAIM), Y!M, mIRC, Winamp (with Last.fm), CuteHTML, eMule, IrfanView, FTP Wanderer, Media Player Classic, MS Paint, Azureus, mIRCStats, DigiGuide, VideoLAN (VLC), Trillian, Arcsoft PhotoStudio, Adobe Acrobat, DotColor.

EDIT: For the most part, I DO NOT WANT ALTERNATIVE PRODUCTS. Particularly in the case of Excel, which I use daily for work purposes and personal purposes.

Is it possible to password protect folders? Always was interested in that possibility.

[Madame Adequate]

Honestly, I am somewhat sceptical of points #1 and 14. Although I'm strongly considering getting the Linux for a lappy, if I get one.

[Nominus Experse]

I am absent of a CD-Burning device since my last one fell apart mysteriously...

Does anyone know of any emulation software that would allow me to boot from the ISO file?

[Captain Maxx Power]

7. Can recognize most hardware nowadays...
...
...If you use Linux, spread some love here. If you don't use it, why not?


Yeah...that'd be why.

[Rantz]

I've always been meaning to do this someday, I just never get around to it.
, but:

I will give Linux a try. :)

[xX.Silver.Wings.Xx]

I had Linux SUSE on my computer with windows 98 a few years ago. I didn't really see the point of having 2 OS's though. Neither of them did anything the other couldn't.

[Cloudane]

I've been using Linux on and off for.. over 10 years now I think.

It's good fun, a great learning experience and of course has some of the best ever ideals (the whole thing is based on caring and sharing)

BUT there are also several reasons why I would still not consider using it as a full-time desktop OS on my primary PC:

* I do a lot of photography. No matter what the GIMP evangelists say, it will not touch Photoshop - it doesn't even come close. GIMP is great for the price though, don't get me wrong. There is also nothing that will touch BreezeBrowser when it comes to processing RAW files. I did get a Linux equivalent going after about 4-5 hours of troubleshooting compile problems (I'll get to that in a minute) and it felt half-finished compared with BB.

* Games. This is the reason I also don't have a Mac as a primary machine, and IMO it's even worse in Linux (you can't get World of Warcraft in Linux without botching it with Cedega for example, whilst you can on a Mac). Linux evangelists always say "But you can run Unreal Tournament! That's all the gaming you need!" - erm, no it's not. I like a choice of games. Linux has a choice of about 10 commercial game ports, Windows has tens of thousands. Cedega helps with some popular Windows-only games, but it always feels sluggish and glitchy compared to running the game natively on Windows.

* Going against "the norm". Oh, it's fine if you run a standard computer with a standard printer and only use it for standard apps (office package, web browser, etc). 'apt-get install foo' (Ubuntu is fantastic) and you're done. But you just wait until you want an unusual app (seemingly, RAW processing apps are still often considered 'unusual') that's not part of the package repository, or you need the latest version that supports 'x feature' and the binary package hasn't been updated for 6 months, or you want to use an unusual piece of hardware. Now you need to compile it yourself, and in my experience it's very rarely a simple matter of "./configure; make; make install". And wait - you didn't expect it to install an icon on the launch menu did you?

* Multiple standards. How ironic. I've got a choice of about 50 half-baked apps that do the same thing, when all I want is one decent one.

Or you have a choice of about 100 different distros that are all based on the same OS but do things ever so slightly differently. This is a nightmare for non-geek developers. Where should they put file soandso because each distro puts the file in a different place? Result - they have to provide versions for Ubuntu, SuSe, Redhat, Mandriva, Debian, blah blah blah... so they get annoyed at the whole process and don't maintain a Linux version of their software.

Don't even get me started on KDE and GNOME competing. Developer: "Yes, of course you can have a system tray icon - but only if you're using KDE. I don't know how to do one for GNOME." - grrreat.


I guess the bottom line is, like everything else there are pros and cons and you have to make a decision on what to use depending on what you need. Linux has many significant advantages as outlined in the OP. Personally speaking, whilst I enjoy tinkering around with Linux, I don't have time to any more - there are other things I prefer doing these days. It's now at the point where my time is valuable enough to me to justify paying Microsoft, Apple and Adobe for professionally-developed "you handle the headaches - just let me get on with my work" kind of software so that I can get on with my work / surfing / gaming and not have to invest half a day to install support for my new phone. I'm not worried about viruses or spyware - so long as you're a reasonably educated PC user and don't go clicking on every toolbar offer or fake dialog box that pops up, you're safe. I haven't had a virus or a piece of spyware for years and years.

However, please do try it. If you have the time and inclination to persevere, it can be very rewarding. Plus, the more people who use it the more companies will support it and the better most of the above situations will get. And you really can't beat having an advanced graphical OS, office package, photo manipulation software, stacks of games, music players etc etc all for $0.00.



To address Loony's list:


One major question I have is how much of my existing software will be supported? This includes MS software such as Excel, Word and yes, possibly even IE.

Yes, through Crossover Office, but read the fine print. Some apps such as Access are very flaky or only work in older versions e.g. Access 2000. You'd be better off with OpenOffice - you can get this for Windows so that you can evaluate it that way.

AIM (with DeadAIM)

Only through gaim, which is a free alternative. Don't expect to be able to do any of the 'fancy' features like webcams etc (although I'm not sure how far gaim has come since I last used it). There is an official AIM for Linux, but it hasn't been updated for yonks.

Y!M

Yes, this is available. Again, I'm not sure if it has all the bells and whistles of the Windows version.

mIRC

Through WINE, yes it should work. For a native alternative, x-chat.

Winamp (with Last.fm)

No idea if it's supported in WINE. Probably not, as most people see xmms as a viable alternative, as do I - it seems to work the same and look the same. It appears that there is indeed a last.fm client for Linux.

CuteHTML

Again, WINE unknown. There is a huge choice of alternative HTML editors out there, but if you don't want alternatives then Linux isn't really for you... you're going to be crossing your fingers and trying things in WINE with mixed success, when you would be better off running them natively in Windows. By running (or trying to run) all Windows software on it you'd also be bypassing the main advantages of having Linux in the first place (software that is both free and Free).

eMule

lmule, the official port, hasn't been updated for ages.
Alternative - amule
WINE - unknown

IrfanView

There are various alternatives. This is probably like BreezeBrowser in that *parts* of it might work in WINE but nothing native to Linux will touch it.

FTP Wanderer

Probably not, never heard of it. Again, gFTP.

Media Player Classic

I think this ought to work under Crossover Office. Whilst of course the newer versions of Media Player do not. If you wanted it for Real Alternative, don't worry - there are several other "Real Alternative" alternatives for Linux.

MS Paint

*Shudder* there are many better alternatives on both platforms, but if you insist, yes. It was one of the first things working in WINE.

Azureus

Yes - Linux version

mIRCStats

Possibly, in WINE. No idea on alternatives.

DigiGuide

Sadly, no. The developer is also adamant that he will never make a Linux version. Some people have reported success with WINE, but AFAIK it doesn't work with newer versions of Digiguide and I never had any luck with the updater. I never found a decent alternative. This was one thing that I really really missed when trying to run Linux full-time.

VideoLAN (VLC)

No problem. This was originally developed for Linux, I think, and does have a Linux (and everything else) version.

Trillian

Sorry, no. Last time I tried, it didn't work in WINE either. Best alternative is gaim. Linux isn't fantastic for instant messengers, IMO.

Arcsoft PhotoStudio

Very unlikely to work in WINE, it's too "weird". Alternative = GIMP

Adobe Acrobat

Yep. In the non-free repositories or downloaded directly from Adobe.

DotColor

I doubt it - it'd be relying on the Windows display model so I doubt it'd pick any thing up off the Linux desktop. Maybe there'd be an alternative, unsure.

[Mirage]

Cloudane hit the nail on its head, but I'll give some personal input anyway.

Did you know:
Looking better than windows is highly subjective, and there are tons of things you can do to make windows look different.
It cannot do many of the things Windows can.
Hardware support is still quite a bit behind what Windows has.
It comes default with tons of software you'll probably never need.
It offers a lot more configuration options than Windows, if you're a hard core computer enthusiast. If not, it just offers a little bit more.

Don't get me wrong though, I like Linux a lot for servers, but that's probably how it'll be for quite some time to come. It simply doesn't have what I need on my desktop and laptop, and I don't see a reason to spend hours on hours configuring WINE or Cedega (one of the games I play the most has been proven practically impossible to make work in Cedega), when Windows does what I need right out of the box, and never crashes, get viruses or spyware anyway. Oh, now that I think of it, that's a lie. I got infected once when I downloaded a crack I knew was from a bogus site, and it has crashed maybe four times since I installed XP in 2002, one of them being because of faulty hardware.

[Dr Unne]

EDIT: For the most part, I DO NOT WANT ALTERNATIVE PRODUCTS. Particularly in the case of Excel, which I use daily for work purposes and personal purposes.

I can't list all the things that don't work in Linux, there are too many differences. Same as I couldn't list all the things Windows can't do that Linux can. It depends what you use your computer for. Cloudane's rundown of the apps you listed is accurate.

Windows is the best operating systems for running Windows programs. If you don't want to use alternative Linux versions of anything, then there's no point ever using Linux.


Is it possible to password protect folders? Always was interested in that possibility.

In a sense. You can deny people permission to view your folders or files. File permissions part of the filesystem (i.e. they are an integral, unavoidable part of how the computer works). You can see files or not depending on what user you are logged in as, so in that sense it is sort of password protected (via your login password).

No matter what the GIMP evangelists say, it will not touch Photoshop - it doesn't even come close.

VMWare works pretty well for this.

But you just wait until you want an unusual app (seemingly, RAW processing apps are still often considered 'unusual') that's not part of the package repository, or you need the latest version that supports 'x feature' and the binary package hasn't been updated for 6 months, or you want to use an unusual piece of hardware. Now you need to compile it yourself, and in my experience it's very rarely a simple matter of "./configure; make; make install".

This is also a problem with Windows, except in Windows you can't even try to compile it yourself.

Multiple standards. How ironic. I've got a choice of about 50 half-baked apps that do the same thing, when all I want is one decent one.

Valid argument in some cases. FTP clients in Linux are one example of having 100 really sucky apps and not a single really killer one (unless you like the command line, which has some really nice apps like ncftp).

Or you have a choice of about 100 different distros that are all based on the same OS but do things ever so slightly differently. This is a nightmare for non-geek developers. Where should they put file soandso because each distro puts the file in a different place? Result - they have to provide versions for Ubuntu, SuSe, Redhat, Mandriva, Debian, blah blah blah... so they get annoyed at the whole process and don't maintain a Linux version of their software.

This is still a problem, but much less a problem nowadays than it used to be. There are tools for example that convert RPMs to debs. As the community grows, more and more volunteers are around to port apps to their distros as necessary. I can't remember the last time I couldn't find a package for something, or find an explanation online for how to install something manually very easily.

But I am not a normal user, so you may be right, it may be hard for people.

Don't even get me started on KDE and GNOME competing. Developer: "Yes, of course you can have a system tray icon - but only if you're using KDE. I don't know how to do one for GNOME." - grrreat.

I have not experienced this in a very long time. There is a lot of movement to standardize desktop-related things like this. When an icon is added to the "start menu" for example, it pretty reliably appears in Gnome and KDE both. Icon themes for both DEs are very nearly the same format. System tray seems to always work for both or neither.

I guess the bottom line is, like everything else there are pros and cons and you have to make a decision on what to use depending on what you need.

This is entirely true.

It simply doesn't have what I need on my desktop and laptop

Like what, aside from gaming?

[Shaun]

I used Knoppix yonks ago. =)

[bipper]

To kill Microsoft in the work place, you now have to kill the office suite with something better than MSoffice (Open office is not there yet) and especially above all, exchange.

And yes, Gimp can touch and obliterate photoshop in most any area. if not, learn to script.

Linux is better alright... it just is! ;) Unfortunately I haven't the time atm to write a decent review, but I like what I am seeing here in this thread.

[Loony BoB]

I guess I'm in a position where using Linux on my current PC would not be practical for most of the activities I use my PC for outside of web-browsing and watching/listening to media. Still, hopefully I'll get a second PC someday and will be able to give it a decent shot. Maybe by then things will also be more suited to my needs.

[Cloudane]

Yes, if there's another positive thing to say, it's improving all the time.

Needless to say it's also far easier to install than Windows (at least with modern distros like Ubuntu). With the exception of a decreasing number of WinModems, most internal hardware is supported out of the box, so there's no Driver Hell to contend with. If there's one very big advantage, especially with second-hand hardware, that is it... no hunting around on Driverguide, phew! That and all the apps are installed for you.

[Yamaneko]

The ftp thing is one of my main complaints in Linux. No good GUI-based ftp client. Your best bet is to VMWare or WINE Filezilla.

As of Ubuntu 5.10 all my hardware was recognized by default. I only had to edit fstab to automatically mount my external drive at bootup. Although I'm pretty sure there's a way to do it without editing files.

KDE and Gnome are very similar nowadays and there's definite cross-compatibility that the developers work on. Like Unne said, basic things like menu items appearing right in both desktop environments and system tray icons working in both, are realities now.

I'll agree that Photoshop is a better image editing program than The GIMP, but the $400 difference between the two pretty much voids that argument for the common consumer.

Mirage: I guarantee you that if you were to get a group of people to look at a Windows desktop (as heavily modified as you could get it) and at a Linux desktop (using Beryl), nine out of ten people would be more impressed with the Linux desktop. Better font rendering, bigger icons, smoother window decorations. Not to mention 3D desktops, blur effects, animation effects and transparency effects. Hell I could make it rain on my desktop as an entirely useless feature, but it looks awesome.

Vista is getting closer with its 3D desktop switching and transparency effects, but what Vista is going to do has already been done on the Linux desktop and then some.

[Cloudane]

Actually, that was going to be my example for "lots of half-baked apps that do the same thing" but there is some good news in terms of FTP clients (http://downloads.sourceforge.net/filezilla/FileZilla_3.0.0-beta2_i586-linux-gnu.tar.bz2?modtime=1160955035&big_mirror=0) now :D

It's definitely good to hear that KDE and GNOME are working together a little, having different menu systems and tray icons was one of the major bugbears for me.

[Fire_Emblem776]

I am absent of a CD-Burning device since my last one fell apart mysteriously...

Does anyone know of any emulation software that would allow me to boot from the ISO file?

Daemon Tools

[Yamaneko]

Daemon Tools runs under Windows. I don't know of any virtual drive that can be kept in RAM during a bootup. Aside from imaging a full Linux install on your HDD (which is complicated if you want to dual boot), your best bet is to order the Ubuntu CDs off their site. It's free. They pay shipping and everything. It usually comes within 4-6 weeks.

[Quindiana Jones]

I'm using Ubuntu right now. It's what I always use. It is infinitely better than Microsoft, and is also not made by money grabbing bastards.

Oh yeah, it also takes about an hour to install FULLY. Microsoft takes forever to install partially.

[Lindy]

A wise man once said "Linux is only free if you place no value on your free time".

Were I to use my computer for more than games, browsing the interwebs, writing reports for university and the occasional bit of graphic design, I'm sure I'd be more inclined to explore alternative OS options.

However, considering how everything I need can be done easily in Windows XP and with a good amount of stability because I'm hardly straining things, I like to stick with what I have.

Linux tempted me at one point in time, but then I realised, what would I really use it for? I'd spend forever customising it and learning every little part of it because I tend to have an obsession over perfection; then I'd just settle down and use it for all the stuff I can already do in XP.

That and a lot of people I know who use and idolize Linux are almost as bad as Apple Hipsters *shudder*

[Yamaneko]

I wouldn't recommend Linux to anyone who didn't have time to learn a new OS. It's definitely not an easy OS to master. Then again if something fails (registry, dll file, etc.) in Windows you're pretty much relegated to reinstalling the OS. Under the Linux if you know what you're doing you can get your system up and running without resorting to a full reinstall. But yeah, if you aren't a person who customizes and messes with your system in order to get the most performance out of it, Linux is not for you.

[Lindy]

Oh I love customisation and learning new things, I tend to pick 'em up fairly quickly; I have plenty of spare time in order to learn new things as well.

It's just I really don't need a new OS as I don't press Windows anywhere near breaking point, so I'd rather spend my time doing more interesting things than learning to work a new system.

I can certainly see the attraction though, system stability, open source software and some of the Linux desktops/themes are approaching artwork levels of design and style.

I've read that it's pretty good for networking too, in terms of security, eh?

[Sylvie]

I tried it, but partitioning didn't work right for me. If I could get a complete guide for partitioning on Ubuntu here, I'd be happy. Oh, and getting my wireless card to work. The software for it isn't recognized.

If I could get help on those 2 things, I may use it. I really like Ubuntu, its great.

[Shoeberto]

I like Linux.
I'm not sure at which point I'll be able to say I've become a full convert; maybe when Wine's DX compatibility covers more ground (just older games, really).

My distro of choice has been Ubuntu for some time now, and I was running it more than Windows until I inevitably broke it through a stupid move :) Actually I don't reckon it should be hard to fix, I've just not had the time lately to boot back into it and fiddle around.

Also:
As of 0.9.25 WINE has support for WoW without the need of patches.

And there's a fork of gaim called gaim-vv that worked on voice and video capabilities, and while it's no longer being developed (they're merging it into the main trunk of gaim) the packages are still available (though they're based off of an older version and not the new gaim 2 betas).

And I've been looking at KVirc as an alternative to mIRC (just playing with the windows version) and from what I've seen of it the similarities are striking. I've not had much luck with mIRC running under Wine how I'd like it to, and I get annoyed at the lack of simple features in Xchat that I have to write a script in a language I barely know to get to work. KVirc actually has an internal scripting language that seems to look and act a lot like mIRC, except with a lot more power. It's interesting (and completely cross-platform as well as open source).

[Cloudane]

I think the main problem with Linux is that it doesn't have a killer app (the Mac's is everything Just Working, and its superiority at graphical processing). There's nothing you can do in Linux that you can't do in Windows, so basically you're moving to an OS where you have to make sacrifices.

The only advantages I can think of in Linux are:
* Free as in speech and collaboration (though most people really don't care about politics, they just want a computer that works)
* Shell-based power tools - which you can use in Windows with Cygwin
* Lack of viruses and spyware - which are a non-issue if you're educated enough on computers to think of installing Linux in the first place and
* The fact that it costs nothing (but let's face it, how many people just pirate everything....)

I honestly want Linux to succeed and improve. But those are the reasons I think it's stalled a little so far. It needs a killer app or at least a killer ability that is attractive to the masses.

FWIW I have a Windows box (main PC), Ubuntu Breezy box (bedroom PC) and Powerbook. So I do use each of the big three OSes.

[Sylvie]

(but let's face it, how many people just pirate everything....

*raises hand*

[Dr Unne]

There's nothing you can do in Linux that you can't do in Windows, so basically you're moving to an OS where you have to make sacrifices.

SSH server. You can do it in Windows but it's not pretty. There are tons and tons of other things, but they probably only appeal to programmers.

The thing about Linux apps is once they're good / popular enough, they get ported to Windows anyways. Gaim, Firefox, Gimp etc. (Not sure if Firefox started as a Windows app, actually. But it clearly has roots in Linux.) So Linux has some killer apps, they just aren't Linux-exclusive for long.

Also Amarok is a killer app in my opinion. I have not seen its like in Windows. (Admittedly I have not looked very hard.)

[rubah]

The main thing about linux (and as I've noticed this afternoon, osx) is that people don't bother with it. If there were more than just the zealots and hardcore nerds working with it and developing for it, there might be a reason for everyone else to use it. Right now, they're working on it, but it's slow, but then windows has been standing still for a long time, so if vista leaves a bad taste in enough people's mouths, they'll have even longer.

(also I wish I had enough time to fiddle with osx to make it Just Work. it's nearly as irritating as ubuntu sometimes!)

[Yamaneko]

I thought the whole thing with OSX was that "it just works". I use Macs at work and they seem totally competent to me.

[Quindiana Jones]

We all know Macs will take over the world. Apple are just pouring new versions out, each getting better and better.

[Mirage]

It simply doesn't have what I need on my desktop and laptop

Like what, aside from gaming?
Aside from gaming? I don't want to set aside one of the things I like the most.

I also like Photoshop. Gimp wasn't my thing, really. Ofcourse, I could install Linux, set up WINE or WMware, then tweak them some in order to make Photoshop run (probably less effective) under Linux. But why, when it works right out of the box under Windows XP, an OS that hasn't really given me any problems.
Getting wireless LAN to work on my laptop is supposedly a bitch too. At least that's what a friend of mine said, and he seems to know a lot about linux. That was a while ago though, things may have changed. Furthermore, I don't know how well Linux will like my integrated ATI graphics adapter.


Mirage: I guarantee you that if you were to get a group of people to look at a Windows desktop (as heavily modified as you could get it) and at a Linux desktop (using Beryl), nine out of ten people would be more impressed with the Linux desktop. Better font rendering, bigger icons, smoother window decorations. Not to mention 3D desktops, blur effects, animation effects and transparency effects. Hell I could make it rain on my desktop as an entirely useless feature, but it looks awesome.
Half of those things you mentioned are things I would never let near my computer :p. So yeah, subjective. I prefer my GUIs to be minimalistic and effective.

[Cloudane]

WLAN is a nightmare on Linux. It's been getting better lately, but it's still a nightmare (as is Bluetooth)

[Dr Unne]

Aside from gaming? I don't want to set aside one of the things I like the most.

I didn't mean to imply that gaming isn't important.

[Mirage]

I see, I misunderstood then.
As long as I need windows for my games, and windows can do what I need, I don't see Linux being installed as my primary OS in a long time, and I don't care for dual boots, because I like keeping my computers online all the time, and not having to restart it just to check something real quick in FFXI.

Sad but true :(.