Kramer's outburst

[Rye]

http://www.actressarchives.com/news.php?id=2917

My Seinfeld dreams are shattered. ;_;

[Shoeberto]

I just saw that video this afternoon, and yeah... it was pretty bad.

[*ETERNAL FANTASY*]

Yeah i heard about this on msn...didnt think (well i was hoping) it wasnt tue...what an idiot, doesnt even have a good excuse (not that there is ever one) for saying crap like that!

[ff7+ff10 gurl 100]

Wow. *falls over* :o

[I Took the Red Pill]

Jason Alexander was better in Seinfeld anyways. :(

And yeah, that article's right, he didn't have any other stellar roles besides Kramer. I seem to remember him having a spin-off show where he was a detective, and it failed miserably.

[sephirothishere]

SEINFELD WAS SECOND RATE 90S COMEDY...

[The New Kid]

"...his routine took a turn for the racist."

Love that line. :D

Niggaz need to get a sense of humour, fo' sho'.





j/k

[Moon Rabbits]

:(

[jrgen]

Hehe. I think he was going somewhere with it all until that dude said "that was uncalled for" and it all just failed.

[Miriel]

It looks like it started with something he thought was being funny (it's not) and then took a huge downward spiral. :o

I give it 3 days before his publicist announces that he is in inpatient care for an alcohol problem or something along those lines.

[NeoCracker]

I thought it was hilarious. Don't know why, but his outburst amuses me so.

[The Captain]

What the heck was he thinking?


Take care all.

[Del Murder]

Kind of sad that he's still called Kramer. Even the person on the news called him Kramer.

[Yamaneko]

Being racist/bigoted is the new "thing" in Hollywood. Like Clear Pepsi.

[Shlup]

*VIDEO* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?eurl=&v=UomfLKQr57U)

Holy <img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"> that was bad.

[Samuraid]

I have no idea what he was thinking, but he really doesn't deserve a career with ideas like that.

[Madame Adequate]

This is pretty hilarious actually.

Because he has no idea what the hell he's doing.

[sephirothishere]

This is pretty hilarious actually.

Because he has no idea what the hell he's doing.


THATS WHY IM STUMPED AS TO WHY I DONT GET MORE LAUGHS??!?!!?!!?!!??!

[Paro]

I'm half black and what he said was wrong but I saw him on Letterman and he is truly sorry. He's still okay in my books.


LOS ANGELES -- Now come the mea culpas. In an extraordinary -- and borderline bizarre -- appearance on "Late Show with David Letterman," Michael Richards apologized for his racist outburst during a comedy club performance in Los Angeles on Friday.

During his appearance via satellite hook-up -- brokered by friend and "Seinfeld" star and executive producer Jerry Seinfeld, who was a scheduled guest on "Late Show" and had earlier in the day issued a statement saying he was "sick" over the meltdown -- Richards often seemed tense and even angry.

At one point he said, "I can hear the audience laugh I'm not sure this is where I should be."

On Monday night's "Late Show," Seinfeld said "I was extremely upset and he is extremely upset, and I asked him if he'd come on tonight so he could explain what happened. It was one of those awful things."

Then Richards -- whose Kramer was one of the most indelible characters in sitcom history -- appeared on screen. Wearing a dark blue shirt, and his face drawn and tense, Richards was asked by Letterman about the incident. "I was at a comedy club trying to do my act, got heckled, and took it badly and went into a rage, and said some pretty nasty things to two Afro-Americans."

After some members of Letterman's audience tittered, Richards bristled, and said, "I heard you make some jokes -- that's OK -- but I'm really busted up over this and very, very sorry to those people in the audience, the blacks, the Hispanics, the whites, everyone there, that took the brunt of that anger and hate and rage, and I'm concerned about more hate and more rage and more anger coming through -- not just towards me, but toward a black-white conflict. There's a great deal of disturbance in this country."

He added that after leaving the stage Friday, he returned "to get back on the horse and I did, I apologized."

During his Laugh Factory tirade, he shouted at two black hecklers, telling them to "Shut up! Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a -- -- fork up your -- -- ." He then shouted "Throw his -- -- out. He's a -- -- !" repeating the racial epithet several times. TMZ.com obtained a tape of the tirade, and it quickly spread across the Web.

Monday about a half-dozen community activists gathered at the club to denounce Richards' remarks and demand an apology. "These kind of comments hurt all of us," said protester Lita Sister Herron of the Youth Advocacy Coalition. She called Richards' comments hate speech. The protesters also demanded an apology from the Laugh Factory.

At a news conference a short time later, club owner Jamie Masada expressed remorse and said Richards will not be back at the club until he says he's sorry.

This story was supplemented with an Associated Press report.

[Mo-Nercy]

I'm shocked that some people commented to that YouTube video thinking that the brand of 'comedy' displayed by Michael Richards was funny.

[Bunny]

I don't really see what the big deal was.

He was trying to do something he was new at. People were heckling. He freaked out and spewed the wrong things.

Big deal, happens every day.

Oh but he is famous so it matters!

[Nasarian Altimeros]

I'm shocked that some people commented to that YouTube video thinking that the brand of 'comedy' displayed by Michael Richards was funny.
It is funny, if only in the 'oops, racist' kind of way.

[Rocket Edge]

Wow, i used to like Kramer. That's terrible, what the hell was he thinking.


EDIT: Seen the video just there on YouTube, it's worse than i could have imagined.

[Bunny]

Wow, i used to like Kramer. That's terrible, what the hell was he thinking.

That's the thing. He wasn't thinking. You can see a few times in the video when he makes a "<img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif">, what am I doing" face.

[Moon Rabbits]

I just watched the actual video and it depresses me to no end to see that there are still people as moronic and ignorant as that on this planet.

What angered me the most was the "That's what happens when you interrupt the white man, don't ya know!?"

[bipper]

I am still laughing. It was extremely wrong, but when you hear the laughter of the audience, some people keep laughing cause they dunno what to do. Like they thought it was some planned satiresque stunt. Now THAT is comedy.

[Moon Rabbits]

I don't really see what the big deal was.

He was trying to do something he was new at. People were heckling. He freaked out and spewed the wrong things.

Big deal, happens every day.

Oh but he is famous so it matters!

When I fail at something and someone points this out to me, I do not scream racial slurs at them.

It does happen everyday, and it is just as wrong. If I see it happening, I raise my voice against it. The only reason this seems to matter more is, indeed, because he is famous.

Famous or not, it's wrong.

[Rye]

Yes. There's a difference between yelling at someone and going on a huge tirade saying that 50 years ago, he could have had them hung and tortured for being black, mmmkay?

And I looooove Seinfeld, so I hate to think of Kramer like that. :[

[Bunny]

I don't really see what the big deal was.

He was trying to do something he was new at. People were heckling. He freaked out and spewed the wrong things.

Big deal, happens every day.

Oh but he is famous so it matters!

When I fail at something and someone points this out to me, I do not scream racial slurs at them.

It does happen everyday, and it is just as wrong. If I see it happening, I raise my voice against it. The only reason this seems to matter more is, indeed, because he is famous.

Famous or not, it's wrong.

As far as I know, he had no stand-up experience and this was one of his first attempts at it. He is a comedic actor, not a stand-up comic. He failed at his attempt and was frustrated, people were making fun of him and it frustrated him more. Usually this effects a person to the point where they say things they normally would not say under normal circumstances.

So he said terrible things to someone. Who cares? This "bad" word is nothing more than an ignorant term of endearment that has far more effectiveness than it should. Not to mention the complete double standard that surrounds the entire thing.

Also, I should point out that nobody seems to be discussing that he was called a "cracker-ass". Which is a term of endearment equal to the word Michael Richards used. Why isn't anyone making a big deal about that?

Oh. Right. Because Michael Richards is a face, not just a voice. People know who he is because of Seinfeld.

The only reason this and every other discussion about this is going on is because he has money and people know who he is. If this kind of crap actually disappoints you or enrages you, well.. let's not go into that because it might be taken as a flame.

P.S. It was not a tirade. It was a verbal argument between Michael Richards and a few members of the audience at the Laugh Factory. A tirade is when one person is talking about a specific subject. Not multiple people fighting over something.

[Markus. D]

shameful...

[Shlup]

It's not that he got mad and said unfortunate things. We all say unfortunate things when we're really angry. It's that he said bigoted things. Just because your angry does not make it excusable for you to act a bigot.

If you say it in anger, that means you think it. If his mind didn't work that way, at least a little bit, his tyrade wouldn't've gone that route.

So I'm glad he's sorry he made an ass out of himself, but he's a racist and he can just go right back to hasbeendome.

[Moon Rabbits]

Also, I should point out that nobody seems to be discussing that he was called a "cracker-ass". Which is a term of endearment equal to the word Michael Richards used. Why isn't anyone making a big deal about that?


I don't condone the use of racial slurs on either of their parts. The entire video made me angry.



Oh. Right. Because Michael Richards is a face, not just a voice. People know who he is because of Seinfeld.


No. The reason this made such a big stir is because he is famous, but I've been present when people fling racial slurs around and it explodes like this. It just never gets coverage like this because no one famous is involved.


It's not that he got mad and said unfortunate things. We all say unfortunate things when we're really angry. It's that he said bigoted things. Just because your angry does not make it excusable for you to act a bigot.

If you say it in anger, that means you think it. If his mind didn't work that way, at least a little bit, his tyrade wouldn't've gone that route.

So I'm glad he's sorry he made an ass out of himself, but he's a racist and he can just go right back to hasbeendome.

:love:

[Bunny]

Oh. Right. Because Michael Richards is a face, not just a voice. People know who he is because of Seinfeld.

No. The reason this made such a big stir is because he is famous, but I've been present when people fling racial slurs around and it explodes like this. It just never gets coverage like this because no one famous is involved.

You kind of contradicted yourself there.

You've been present in situations like this one but they have never been blown up to national coverage because nobody famous was involved.

Racial slurs are meaningless words. People put far too much emphasis on them. When these words, specifically the word that everyone is making a fuss about, ceases to be commonplace among all types of people, then it can be made into a big and important matter.

Specific words should not belong to certain races simply because it pertains to them in a degrading or positive manner. If a black person does not want a white person using a word, they themselves should not use it in any manner.

[Shlup]

1) It's a big issue because he's a public figure. A lot of people know who he is. A lot of people want to know what kind of people they're supporting--whether they're racist or otherwise.

2) The meaning of the words is based on the intent of the speaker. Richards' intent was to insult and belittle the men he was speaking to on the basis that they are inferior because of their skin color. That is horribly, horribly wrong.

3) This thread is not about words "belonging" to races. It has nothing to do with this issue.

[Roto13]

He was a standup comic for years before starting on Seinfeld. This is not something he's new at. He's been at it for decades.

Not that it would be an excuse anyway.

[Zidane Ultimate]

Hehe. I think he was going somewhere with it all until that dude said "that was uncalled for" and it all just failed.
Yeah, I think this too, I don't find it that bad in all honesty, he could have done a lot worse, he was probably going to explain it properly had the audience members not heckled him.

[Shiny]

I agree with the guy, that was uncalled for. The constant racial slurs and the fact that he acted mightier than the heckler, because of his race were ridiculous. I mean you could have told him off, but you could have done it in a non-racist way and possibly even a funny way. He went too far, but I'm not surprised because he's a washed up, bitter comedian. Who, in my opinion, was never funny to begin with.

[Roto13]

Mel Gibson, Michael Richards, looks like racism is the new Kabbalah.

[Moon Rabbits]

You kind of contradicted yourself there.

True, I did. Once again ShlupQuack worded what I wanted to say better:


1) It's a big issue because he's a public figure. A lot of people know who he is. A lot of people want to know what kind of people they're supporting--whether they're racist or otherwise.


Anyways, the moral of the story is that we should stick with good comedians like George Carlin and Trevor Boris.

[edczxcvbnm]

Kramer is now only more awesome.

I don't blame the guy that much. He probably just got pushed over that edge. You hear everyone saying nigger so much today from black people calling each other nigger. Example

"What-up mah nigga"

To all that rap/R&B music nigger this and nigga that.

Due to how often it is used I don't really see the big deal. The first comment...maybe but not so much the rest.

Peace out mah niggas XD

[Nasarian Altimeros]

I think you guys are jumping the gun a little. What he said was obviously racist, but that doesn’t mean he is. Occasionally you have to put an asshole in his place and those who are slow of wit will generally be forced to pick on someone’s physical characteristics in order to do so. I mean, just listen to the insult he came up with. “50 years ago we had you with a fork up your ass”? What does that even mean? If it’s a reference to slavery, it’s a crappy one.

So yeah, getting pissed off at a guy and coming up with the most hateful thing to say about them doesn’t necessarily make you racist: it just makes you a crappy stand up comedian. I mean seriously, way to lose your <img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"> in the most hilarious way possible.

[Sylvie]

And its not like black people get in trouble for being racist against whites.

[Cipher]

Kramer is now only more awesome.

I don't blame the guy that much. He probably just got pushed over that edge. You hear everyone saying nigger so much today from black people calling each other nigger. Example

"What-up mah nigga"

To all that rap/R&B music nigger this and nigga that.

Due to how often it is used I don't really see the big deal. The first comment...maybe but not so much the rest.

Peace out mah niggas XD

Ooh, this is a tough one.

Believe it or not, a lot of black people believe there to be a HUGE difference between 'Nigger' and 'Nigga', or the much more archaic and funny 'Nigra.'

Also, it really does depend on context. As a black person, I personally don't use the N-word, but whether or not I'm offended really does depend on how it's said. Would it bother me more if a white person said it? Again, it depends on context.

Richards' context could be found in the words preceding his calling them niggers.


"...Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a -- -- fork up your -- -- ."

That was racist, so you can assume that his calling them Niggers would be in a racist context and not in a shuck and jive kind of way.

Though, my mother used to say that you 'ain't gotta be black to be a nigger.' Think about it. White people back in the Civil War days believed a 'nigger' to be a slovenly, ignorant sub-human. Therefore, one could say that a 'nigger' could be any slovenly, ignorant sub-human. It's a state of being, an attitude, a way of carrying yourself.

So in using that reasoning, it was Michael Richards that was a nigger...or at least, acted like one. :D

Edit: Instead of Double-posting, I'll just add my second comment to this one.


And its not like black people get in trouble for being racist against whites.

Yeah, most black comedians do it in good fun. You don't see them seriously going on diatribes, railing against white people that may heckle their stand-up act.

Though I see where you were trying to go with that comment. Yes, there is a huge double-standard. It's socially taboo for white people to poke fun at Minorities, but acceptable for Minorities to do so against white. But it's hard for America to get over hundreds of years of racial tension. That's one of the Great American <img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"> stains that in a way keeps us from being the best place to be.

[edczxcvbnm]

Ooh, this is a tough one.

No it isn't

Believe it or not, a lot of black people believe there to be a HUGE difference between 'Nigger' and 'Nigga', or the much more archaic and funny 'Nigra.'

I would call bull<img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif">s on this one. If he had done the same thing but said nigga instead of nigger nothing would have changed. It is the context and not the word...and who says it. No white person in their head screwed on right goes around certain neighbor hoods calling each other a nigga or nigger.

Also, it really does depend on context. As a black person, I personally don't use the N-word, but whether or not I'm offended really does depend on how it's said. Would it bother me more if a white person said it? Again, it depends on context.

Richards' context could be found in the words preceding his calling them niggers.


"...Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a -- -- fork up your -- -- ."

That was racist, so you can assume that his calling them Niggers would be in a racist context and not in a shuck and jive kind of way.

To me it looked like he was going to try to go somewhere with the whole thing but lost his train of thought and just started doing whatever. I thought that comment you quoted was hilarious...as I have already said

Though, my mother used to say that you 'ain't gotta be black to be a nigger.' Think about it. White people back in the Civil War days believed a 'nigger' to be a slovenly, ignorant sub-human. Therefore, one could say that a 'nigger' could be any slovenly, ignorant sub-human. It's a state of being, an attitude, a way of carrying yourself.

The Boondocks has driven this point home big time. Example:
"Text Messagin? Thats Nigger Technology." They even went so far as to say that he doesn't mean it in a bad way just as a general term for ignorant people. It was awesome.

So in using that reasoning, it was Michael Richards that was a nigger. :D

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

You hear everyone saying nigger so much today from black people calling each other nigger. Example

"What-up mah nigga"

To all that rap/R&B music nigger this and nigga that.

Due to how often it is used I don't really see the big deal.The difference is that he was clearly using the word with hateful intent, not as a benign term of endearment.

[nik0tine]

I love the guys response at the end. "Well I don't know what to say. Sorry about that."

:p

Edit: This is why racism isn't a problem and nobody should care about it.

[Rye]

Ummm, I think everyone is missing the point that there's a BIG difference between getting mad and just letting the n word fly once and getting mad and saying how 50 years ago, the person who have been hung and had a fork up his ass for being black and rude and then using the n word multiple times. You need to have a certain kind of mentality to end up saying the latter, even if you are mad. :p

[Shiny]

I think you guys are jumping the gun a little. What he said was obviously racist, but that doesn’t mean he is.
That doesn't make any sense. If you say something racist directed towards someone in a hateful way then you're racist and that's it. Being angry doesn't justify the fact that what he said and it wasn't like the word nigger was all he said. The word is unfortunately used alot in today's society, but it's pretty much known that blacks are not accepting of whites using it at all. It's offensive. However, I think that nobody should use is regardless of race. The word nigger can thrown away with the word bling and other pointless words. And "Kramer" can be tossed in with all the other celebrity D-List garbage.

[Cipher]

I would call bulls on this one. If he had done the same thing but said nigga instead of nigger nothing would have changed. It is the context and not the word...and who says it. No white person in their head screwed on right goes around certain neighbor hoods calling each other a nigga or nigger.

To clarify, I stated that as a sort of factoid. There really is a difference between the three variations, at least in some black people's minds. And scholarly linguists (like Geneva Smitherman) are quick to agree.

But the use of the n-word is context more than anything, and I apologize if I wasn't clear about that.


To me it looked like he was going to try to go somewhere with the whole thing but lost his train of thought and just started doing whatever. I thought that comment you quoted was hilarious...as I have already said.

It looked to me like he went off on his rant and as an afterthought attempted salvage his credibility by trying to turn it into a joke. Until the guys in the background said something else, and all thoughts of trying to save face went out the window.

It's all a matter of speculation though, I suppose. No one knows what went on in Richards' head but Richards himself.

[Nasarian Altimeros]

That doesn't make any sense. If you say something racist directed towards someone in a hateful way then you're racist and that's it.
So, if some mortally obese guy was being a jackass while I was talking and I said "Shut it, fatty. Go stuff your mouth with pie or something so we don't have to listen to you talk", it would definitely mean I was prejudice against fat people, and not just looking for a way to embarrass the guy so he would shut the hell up?

[NINJA_Ryu]

Im waiting for someone to say

"Man....you just got PUNKED!!!"

[Moon Rabbits]

That doesn't make any sense. If you say something racist directed towards someone in a hateful way then you're racist and that's it.
So, if some mortally obese guy was being a jackass while I was talking and I said "Shut it, fatty. Go stuff your mouth with pie or something so we don't have to listen to you talk", it would definitely mean I was prejudice against fat people, and not just looking for a way to embarrass the guy so he would shut the hell up?

There is a lot more social stigma attached to racist comments than there is to something like weight. Furthermore, it could very well be argued that you are prejudiced towards over-weight people because you choose to talk to them in such a way.

[Shiny]

So, if some mortally obese guy was being a jackass while I was talking and I said "Shut it, fatty. Go stuff your mouth with pie or something so we don't have to listen to you talk", it would definitely mean I was prejudice against fat people, and not just looking for a way to embarrass the guy so he would shut the hell up?
Yup. Because you are assuming all obese people are fat, because they eat excessively when that's not always the case. That can be considered stereotypical and prejudice. It could also mean you are trying to be purposely mean, but that still doesn't change the fact that what you said was prejudice.

I've seen plenty of comedians handle hecklers in aggressive and offensive ways, but it rarely included using racial slurs. If "Kramer" wasn't racist, he wouldn't have used the word. They say that people's true colors come out in a time of stress and when people's defenses are up. It looks as though his true self appeared.

[Nasarian Altimeros]

There is a lot more social stigma attached to racist comments than there is to something like weight. Furthermore, it could very well be argued that you are prejudiced towards over-weight people because you choose to talk to them in such a way.

Just because something is more socially unacceptable to say (which it shouldn’t be) doesn't increase the chances that they are bigoted for saying it. And while I’m sure it could be argued that someone who said that was predgidous against fat people, I think you’ll be hard pressed to find a single situation in which anyone has ever made a big deal out of it.

It could also mean you are trying to be purposely mean, but that still doesn't change the fact that what you said was prejudice.
That was pretty much my original point =\

What he said was obviously racist, but that doesn’t mean he is.

[Rostum]

Well, it looks like he certainly got some attention. ;)

[Shlup]

He called the guy a nigger. Repeatedly. Maybe we can use the "it's something people say a lot" excuse with that one, but what about the “50 years ago we had you with a fork up your ass” or whatever comment? Or the "that's what you get for interrupting a white man" comment? That is so not okay.

[Nasarian Altimeros]

I don't think you'll find anyone who thinks that what he said was 'okay'.

[Shlup]

Several people in this thread said it's not a big deal, or that he's not really racist, just says horribly racist things when angry.

[Shiny]

Nasarian Altimeros: Not really...you were saying how it's not really a big deal and isn't racist. When I pretty much said the exact opposite. I added the "just because he was angry" part, because I felt that his anger didn't justify his racism. Racism can't be justified. It can be understood, but it doesn't have to be tolerated. Furthermore, you can't say something is racist and not be racist. It's not just the thing he said with the word nigger, but all the other crap he said on top of that; hinting at lynching and acting like a white supremist towards the end. How can that not be racist?

[Nasarian Altimeros]

Several people in this thread said it's not a big deal, or that he's not really racist, just says horribly racist things when angry.
The later doesn't imply that they think what he said was acceptable. The former...well, I probably should have read a few more posts in this thread.

Not really...you were saying how it's not really a big deal
No seriously, where did I say that?

and isn't racist
I started off by saying the comment was racist.

[Shiny]

Nasarian Altimeros: I'm not going to nit-pick and quote you on every little thing you said, but I do infact recall you saying how the comments he said were racist, but that it doesn't make him racist; which is what puzzled me in the first place. But, you never really explained how that could be possible. Care to elaborate?

[Nasarian Altimeros]

To quote my first post:

Occasionally you have to put an asshole in his place and those who are slow of wit will generally be forced to pick on someone’s physical characteristics in order to do so.
What that means is, it's entirely possible that he said what he did because he knew it would piss the guy off more than anything else. I honestly don't see why people can't use insults that they don't believe in themselves, just to rile people up. I'm not saying that what he said wasn't racist in itself, or even that it was acceptable to say it (I agree with an eye for an eye mentality in generally, but it doesn't make the individual acts in and of themselves any less vulgar).

[Shlup]

You're really stretching out the whole "benefit of the doubt" thing with that rationalization. A guy is up infront of a bunch of people getting teased and his response "just to rile people up" was to flip out and make several highly offensive racial comments. Just to rile people up. Sure.

[Nasarian Altimeros]

His initial statement was clearly designed to shock them into shutting up. It seemed he thought he had succeeded as well, since he tired to return to his act straight after the initial bout of racial slurs. Everything after that was just a result of him not knowing what the hell to do when he realize that no one was going to let him down for it, causing an unfortunate decision of continuing down the same path.

[Shlup]

I'm not even close ton convinced.

[Nasarian Altimeros]

Because you know, you're conclusion that Kramer is a racist bigot is a ton more logical than he lost it at some asshole and things got out of hand because he chose the wrong thing to say.

[Shiny]

To quote my first post:

Occasionally you have to put an asshole in his place and those who are slow of wit will generally be forced to pick on someone’s physical characteristics in order to do so.
What that means is, it's entirely possible that he said what he did because he knew it would piss the guy off more than anything else. I honestly don't see why people can't use insults that they don't believe in themselves, just to rile people up. I'm not saying that what he said wasn't racist in itself, or even that it was acceptable to say it (I agree with an eye for an eye mentality in generally, but it doesn't make the individual acts in and of themselves any less vulgar).


His initial statement was clearly designed to shock them into shutting up. It seemed he thought he had succeeded as well, since he tired to return to his act straight after the initial bout of racial slurs. Everything after that was just a result of him not knowing what the hell to do when he realize that no one was going to let him down for it, causing an unfortunate decision of continuing down the same path.
How do you know what his intentions were? It's not so clear as to what his intentions were, because we can not vouch for his actions. None of us are in his shoes. It doesn't really matter what his intention was, because it still doesn't mean he isn't racist. Honestly, I don't really see the point in defending someone who acts like that... but meh.

[Nasarian Altimeros]

I'm not defending him. I thought we established this when I said 'I'm not saying that what he said wasn't racist in itself, or even that it was acceptable to say'.

[Shiny]

I'm not defending him. I thought we established this when I said 'I'm not saying that what he said wasn't racist in itself, or even that it was acceptable to say'.
You pretty much established your stance when you said that what he said was racist, but doesn't make him a racist. If that makes any sense and you never elaborated on that either. I'm still waiting. :(

[Shlup]

Because you know, you're conclusion that Kramer is a racist bigot is a ton more logical than he lost it at some asshole and things got out of hand because he chose the wrong thing to say.

I'm glad you agree.

[Nasarian Altimeros]

You pretty much established your stance when you said that what he said was racist, but doesn't make him a racist. If that makes any sense and you never elaborated on that either. I'm still waiting.
Good God, it's like 8 posts up (http://forums.eyesonff.com/showpost.php?p=1992340&postcount=62)

[Shiny]

Good God, it's like 8 posts up (http://forums.eyesonff.com/showpost.php?p=1992340&postcount=62)

I read that post already. What are you trying to prove? I think we should agree to disagree unless you want to explain how he isn't racist then maybe we can continue this debate.

[Nasarian Altimeros]

It's right there.


What that means is, it's entirely possible that he said what he did because he knew it would piss the guy off more than anything else.
Explain to me why this isn't a valid explanation as to how someone can say something racist without being racist themselves.

[Shiny]

It's right there.


What that means is, it's entirely possible that he said what he did because he knew it would piss the guy off more than anything else.
Explain to me why this isn't a valid explanation as to how someone can say something racist without being racist themselves.
Because, (as I've said before) you can't justify the racism in a person it takes to make them want to say those things. The heckler was a jerk, but no one forced "Kramer" to say the things he said unless by some rare circumstance he were held at gun point and forced to sput off racial slurs. Unless that is the case, then that came out of his big racist head. Who knows what intentions he had and who cares if his intention was to get him angry. He went about it the wrong way by saying things like "See what happens when you interupt a white man". Give me a break. The fact of the matter is that he's a racist whether you care to admit it, or not and that's an unfortunate problem in today's society that people some people seem to take lightly in this thread.

[Nasarian Altimeros]

In order to be racist he has to believe that white people are superior to other races, or in this case, that black people are inferior to white people. If he said what he did simply because he knew it was the easiest way to insult the man, then it doesn't reflect a racist mentality. I mean really, your acting as if people never say things they don't believe in. Ever.

[Shiny]

In order to be racist he has to believe that white people are superior to other races, or in this case, that black people are inferior to white people.

If he said what he did simply because he knew it was the easiest way to insult the man, then it doesn't reflect a racist mentality.

I mean really, your acting as if people never say things they don't believe in. Ever.
He pretty much did claim superiority with the quote I have in the previous post.

We don't know why he said it. Not that it matters. All we can surmise is that he's a racist, because he chose to say the words he did. Another person who's not racist would have not said that. There are many ways to insult a person without being racist and he chose the racist way for what I thought was an obvious reason being that he's a racist.

I guess I don't quite understand how someone can not be racist from watching that video, but then again I'm just being realistic. Normally, people mean the things they say and say the things they mean. Some just deny that they were aware of what they said, because they're not honest. Acting out in anger you take what you feel deep down and project it on someone else. His conscious mind was fully aware of what he was saying. He's a grown man and he should have known that what he said was uncalled for, yet he chose to continue on with it. I could care less about his anger, or the other guy. As far as I'm concerned they're both idiots. End of discussion for me, because this is going nowhere.

[Rye]

He called the guy a nigger. Repeatedly. Maybe we can use the "it's something people say a lot" excuse with that one, but what about the “50 years ago we had you with a fork up your ass” or whatever comment? Or the "that's what you get for interrupting a white man" comment? That is so not okay.

Thank you.

[fantasyjunkie]

Wow :eek: :eek: :eek:

[The Captain]

I'd also say his career is finished but.... I'd be about half a decade late.



Take care all.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

The Captain, of all people, with the burn.

[The Captain]

Just trying something new, which apparently Mr. Richards was too. Hopefully, I find more success then he did, though that's a VERY low bar to pass.

Take care all.

[Jessweeee♪]

MY FRAGILE MIND!

[Markus. D]

I thought I had posted in a thread like this...


there are other ways he could have gone about it.

ALOT, there always is.

[Breine]

Wow, what an idiot. He really needs to get his ass kicked and to learn something about respect, which he clearly doesn't know what is.