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Peter_20
11-25-2006, 03:39 PM
What's Leon up to in FF2?
He disappears during the very beginning of the game, and then he returns as the Dark Knight.
Fine, Maria thinks he's just being controlled, but I don't think so.
You know why?
Because in Palamecia Castle he's being treated by the Emperor as a rival; he goes "damn you, Leon, you shant steal my place, get outta here!"
If Leon were indeed some puppet, then the Emperor most likely should've gone "alright, Leon, kick the crap out of these intruders!"
But he doesn't: he's yelling at Leon as if he were an enemy, which I'm pretty sure he is.
Then things get really strange when everyone's back at the Fynn Castle: Hilda just yells "OMG, was Leon the Dark Knight?!"
Then Maria says "Leon, let's fight together!" and Leon goes "Yes, okay, Maria, let's fight together. Let's fight together and forget the very fact I was your enemy a few minutes ago, and probably would've killed you all. Let's fight together without even trying to find out about LOTS of things that should be explained; like why I chose to be your enemy. Let's forget that. I'm not gonna kill you NOW, so screw it."

I don't get it, everything seems really confusing to me. :rolleyes2

DarkLadyNyara
11-26-2006, 04:05 AM
Yeah, Leon pisses me off. He was not controlled, that's fairly obvious (at least in DoS), and he never actually repents. He switches sides to save his own ass. :mad: I found that plot twist somewhat contrived.

Zeromus_X
11-26-2006, 04:11 AM
Leon took his opportunity to get power because apparently he's a power-hungry bastard to give him some semblance of character depth. Or something. At least, I've always believed he was just trying to rise up in the ranks or something.

Well, I guess we can all say it's a 1989 Famicom RPG? That'll work this time, right? :cat:

Kawaii Ryűkishi
11-26-2006, 11:50 AM
Indeed. At the time FFII was made, Square was still getting acclimated to the idea of constructing dynamic narratives with characters and dialogue.

Peter_20
11-26-2006, 06:09 PM
My best guess would be that he did want power, BUT he probably wouldn't ever try to hurt his friends and families.

My second bet is that he was indirectly controlled in some way; he was brainwashed or something, in a way that the Emperor can't be blamed for.

Bahamut2000X
11-26-2006, 06:17 PM
I thought it was fairly nice how they did that. It's different from later games where it's "Oh no's I was bad; now I'm good. Let's go save puppy dogs and christmas everybody!!!"

Instead Leon was a more unigue character, and was a good person who then got lost in the opportunity for power. Which he took, even at the cost of many other people's lives. One thing I did enjoy about his character that he wasn't exactly the good guy, but at the same time he wasn't a true villian either. He was more in the middle and made it a bit nifty to have him in your party.

Peter_20
11-26-2006, 06:21 PM
I thought it was fairly nice how they did that. It's different from later games where it's "Oh no's I was bad; now I'm good. Let's go save puppy dogs and christmas everybody!!!"

Instead Leon was a more unigue character, and was a good person who then got lost in the opportunity for power. Which he took, even at the cost of many other people's lives. One thing I did enjoy about his character that he wasn't exactly the good guy, but at the same time he wasn't a true villian either. He was more in the middle and made it a bit nifty to have him in your party.Hm, I know what you mean.
I also think it's "eerie" in a cool way to have a guy like that in your party.

...although I do think an explanation on at least SOME things would be pretty decent; after all, Square did catch the epic feeling in the rest of the game.

Martyr
11-27-2006, 07:13 AM
It'd a been hella cool if Leon'd turn on his stupid sister and her annoying boyfriends again to become the Final Final Boss after killing the Emperor a second time in Pandamonium.

Seriously, I think the guy's problem is that nobody loves him and his sister is a whore.

Ender
11-27-2006, 04:33 PM
Wasn't Leon with the party when they were ambushed by the Uber-knights in the intro?

The question I have is why Leon specifically? It'd have been more compelling if Leon arranged for the destruction of his hometown and the initial ambush under the proviso that he was proving his worth and loyalty to the Empire, but I don't recall any justification for that in the game.

Instead, I got the impression that he was taken captive by chance and then "convinced" as to the benefits/sensibility of the Empire's cause/vision, sort of Palpatine-Anakin Skywalker style. Not brainwashed, but more like the Emperor pushed the right buttons to "unlock" Leon's deeper desires for power.

Leon = Anakin
Emperor = Palpatine
Dark Knight = Vader
Dreadnaught/Warship = Death Star
Princess of Fynn = Leia?

Mind you, the game came out before the Star Wars prequels, so it's only a loose fit in places, but a lot of the elements are there IMO.

That way I don't have to buy into some sort of psychological or magical "mind control" scenario, which IMO the game makes fairly clear with Leon's reactions to his sister and friends was not the case.

Sefie1999AD
11-27-2006, 06:22 PM
Ender's explanation sounds pretty good. I never thought Leon was being controlled, more like the Emperor convinced him to work for him so that Leon could gain more power. Other than that, I think FFII's story goes a lot like Star Wars Episode V: Empire Strikes Back. Ender's list of FFII characters that correspond to Star Wars characters sounds pretty good, although I think the Cyclone was more like the Death Star than the Dreadnought. The comparison between Princess Hilda and Princess Leia sounds about right, though, since they're both princesses ranking high in the rebel army.

Crossblades
11-30-2006, 06:34 PM
My guess is that Leon since the beginning he thought the only way to survive if he had power. He probably felt that rebelling against the empire would be futile, so he pledged loyalty to them. But then again, I could be wrong

Bart's Friend Milhouse
12-07-2006, 07:33 PM
Remember this was the first FF that had a proper story. After FFI this must have been a quite a stroke of genius

DarkLadyNyara
12-09-2006, 04:11 AM
Oh, for its time, FFII has a brilliant story. And in said story, Leon is a power-hungry little snot. :D


The question I have is why Leon specifically? It'd have been more compelling if Leon arranged for the destruction of his hometown and the initial ambush under the proviso that he was proving his worth and loyalty to the Empire, but I don't recall any justification for that in the game.

Gah! Must...resist...the...plotbunny...

darksword12
02-04-2007, 07:38 AM
Well, think about it this way. Say the emperor did brainwash Leon into being his servant. I think it makes perfect sense that the emperor doesn't want Leon taking his place. They can still become adversaries, even if Leon was a servant of the emperor at first. Think of the scenario if this happened in Star Wars, in some way or another. I'm sure Palpatine would be more than a little miffed at Vader.

Alternatively, who says power-hunger can't be a character's tragic flaw?

The black mage
02-04-2007, 06:03 PM
Yep, thats the way i see it, and in Star wars 3,5,6 vader wants power but becomes a spinless cowared, Leon though see's his opertunity to take power, an takes it (unlike Vader)

Twig
02-14-2007, 08:26 PM
You do get a little bit more insight when the game is beaten.

When all the characters are celebrating the Emperor's defeat, many of them vocalize their hopes and plans for the future. Leon however decides to leave because of his past deeds into seclusion, even though his sister begs him to stay. There is a reference that he might return someday when he is ready.

This makes me believe that he wasn't brainwashed and was acting on his own accord. He helped defeat the Emperor, but that alone couldn't wash away his sins.

A story of redemption told with only a handful lines of text.

ReloadPsi
02-19-2007, 02:41 PM
I was thinking that Leon was only as controlled as Kain was in FF4, and somehow they found a way to bring out a more selfish side. This led to... nah, they just screwed up.

abrojtm
02-23-2007, 04:46 AM
<i>Amnesia</i>... clearly.

Maria must have reminded him or something.

Peter_20
02-23-2007, 09:09 AM
I think Leon was seduced in a way that made him act on his own accord as well; then he wanted to redeem himself, because he regretted everything badly.

Actually, that theory sounds beautiful.

Monster Hunt
05-10-2007, 11:43 AM
Okay... something to do with elections and I must help you out with this...

Now we ALL know Leon and the emperor loves their little jokes (they were having them!)... however before Leon could say "GOTCHA!" and leave everyone laughing in a merry little manner, Maria HAD to say 'Let's fight together!', making both the Emperor AND Leon forget their merry little joke.

How sad...

(KANE)

Peter_20
05-11-2007, 08:34 AM
When all the characters are celebrating the Emperor's defeat, many of them vocalize their hopes and plans for the future. Leon however decides to leave because of his past deeds into seclusion, even though his sister begs him to stay. There is a reference that he might return someday when he is ready. This actually sounds a lot like Frodo from The Lord of the Rings. :D
Leon turns to the dark side, and then he doesn't want to stay with his friends because of his regretting his deeds.
It's so much like Frodo.

Psychotic
05-11-2007, 04:30 PM
Thread = dead. No bumps.

Naughty Rad Zak. :irked: