Too Short?

[atlanteay]

Is it just me or is this game a little too short? Like just when everyone is getting better developed especially before fighting cid, the game is at its final dungeon. There were far less conversations as well. Also, i don't even get WHY Vaan is the main character when the game focuses more on balthier, basch, and ashe more than anyone else.

Today, i told my friend that i finished the game and told her it took about 54 hours. She was surprised at how short that was. Actually, it took me 55 hours to beat Kingdom Hearts 2 (guess i left the TV on too often XD since i rush off to somewhere else) and despite that FFX wasn't that much of a great game, at least it had it's character development and everyone got a good amount of attention. FF12 is much like FF8 when half of the party gets thoroughly ignored after a single event involving them. It's just so disappointing. I beat the game yesterday and i'm still thinking about continue playing, only to realize that i'm ALREADY done!

[Ashley Schovitz]

It's just you I'm 73 hours into the game and still not finished.

[GuitarGuy1181]

Is it just me or is this game a little too short? Like just when everyone is getting better developed especially before fighting cid, the game is at its final dungeon. There were far less conversations as well. Also, i don't even get WHY Vaan is the main character when the game focuses more on balthier, basch, and ashe more than anyone else.

Today, i told my friend that i finished the game and told her it took about 54 hours. She was surprised at how short that was. Actually, it took me 55 hours to beat Kingdom Hearts 2 (guess i left the TV on too often XD since i rush off to somewhere else) and despite that FFX wasn't that much of a great game, at least it had it's character development and everyone got a good amount of attention. FF12 is much like FF8 when half of the party gets thoroughly ignored after a single event involving them. It's just so disappointing. I beat the game yesterday and i'm still thinking about continue playing, only to realize that i'm ALREADY done!

My theory is that you never truly beat a Final Fantasy until you beat the optional fights (Ozma, Nemesis, Weapons, etc.).....have you done all of the hunts?

[Timerk]

It's not that...overall, I think the length is comparable to that of recent FF games.

In FFXII you spend more time fighting things than you do watching cut scenes.

How you feel about that statement prolly determines how you feel about the game.

:twocents:

[Tavrobel]

This game is short? Since when? Since hell froze over?

[atlanteay]

finishing the hunts are not exactly part of the storyline. The plot doesn't change just because you beat Ultima or Gilgamesh. If i had done all those sidequests, then yes, i would've taken over hundreds of hours into it but FFX took 90 hours for me just to beat the game itself without any sidequests. And yet, i understand the characters really well. I feel for those characters but in FF12, the only people i feel for are Ashe, Basch, and Balthier because they're actually part of the events in the game. There's nothing special for Penelo except for the fact that she wants to come with Vaan. Fran is just there because Balthier is. Vaan is there because he wants to be a sky pirate.

Everything was so exciting and all of a sudden i have to go to Bahamut and a little bit later, the game ends. The sudden change is surprising.

[LunarWeaver]

I found this game to be hella long.

[atlanteay]

it is VERY long if you went ahead and did all the hunts. Just like any game. If you did every single thing there can be done, then it can last over hundreds of hours. However, of all the final fantasies i've played: 3,4,6,7,8,9, and 10, when this one ended, i just feel so surprised. It's like, "It's over? already?" and with the others it's a satisfying ending that is expected and with 10 it's like "Finally, it's over:eep: "

[Tavrobel]

This game is by far the longest one, and that doesn't even count optional events.

[LunarWeaver]

I think it's hella long without hunts. It sounds to me like you were left wanting more plot and character development, and so the hour count comes off feeling thin. Maybe, I dunno :jess:. But XII is more play and less watchy, which will be good for some and bad for others I suppose.

[atlanteay]

who cares about hour counts? I'm just using the hour counts as a reference to the shortage of this game compared to others. Besides, i just want longer storyline and more character development. It's just that everything was going so well: ashe finally realizes about Dalmasca and her people so she grew stronger by destroying Rasler's ghost. Before all that, it was just a wild goose chase to get the shards and etc... crazy chases going on. Now, the characters are getting more involved. Vaan is becoming more heroic and then final boss fight..THE END everything is so sudden...

[LunarWeaver]

who cares about hour counts?

When you say a game is "too short", you pretty much imply that, well, you do. "Too short" and "thin plot" have nothing to do with each other.

[atlanteay]

actually, i never just said it had a thin plot. The whole time, i was saying that it needed more to it. Longer plot, more conflicts, more dialogues between characters, and main party development. I was implying all of that. The hour count was just a statement to enforce the lackage of story in the game. If you think about it, the whole game, you're chasing after either a sword, shard, wise help about the shards, and then what to do with the shards. Everything is about the shards and then suddenly, war rages on. It just doesn't fit.

[Timerk]

I agree with Lunar, it sounds like you have more of a problem with the plot itself than the length of the storyline.

[atlanteay]

I agree with Lunar, it sounds like you have more of a problem with the plot itself than the length of the storyline.

how about combining both problems together?

[LunarWeaver]

I know what you're saying, I'm only pointing out that you can't agree a game has a 100 hours of content and then still claim it's short. That's more a problem with...pacing. The pacing of it is bad. You go very long stretches in XII with no plot advancement at all, and then lots of stuff shoved at the end and then it's over. And that's a good complaint and all, but the game is still pretty long regardless of pacing problems ;o. That's all I meant. I dunno, just ignore me :jess:.

[Tavrobel]

Thin plot and total game length are often directly proportionate. Thinner the plot, the longer the game.

55 hours? Seriously? That's somewhat long for ANY RPG, much less a Final Fantasy game. FFX must have been 35, all the ones before VII maybe 25 at best, VII-IX were progressively longer, about 35, also.

[Zeromus_X]

It took me somewhere around 63 hours to complete the main story, without doing any real hunts or exploring any secret areas. Just because the pacing of the story is questionable doesn't mean that the game is short.

[Timerk]

Besides, i just want longer storyline and more character development.

That sounds like more of a problem with plot.

EDIT: For example, if you would have went to three more dungeons to get two more shards and a sword, I still don't think you would have been happy, because the characters wouldn't have been anymore developed even though you would have played longer.

I actually thought XII was sneaky long; I was always surprised when I saw how many hours were on my save file.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

I like this game so much, I wish it lasted twice as long. But as it is, I wouldn't count its length against it.

[skillzboy4]

This game was extremely long im finished with eveything and it took me about 130 hours playing it.. never touching this game again.

[Roto13]

No game can be considered short at 55 hours.

[VengefulRonin]

I'm 47 hours into it and only halfway through, and i havent even done sidequests...i dont see how the hell it can be finished in 50-some hours, at least not the first time through.

[LazarCotoron]

You consider that Square usually builds the story to be 60 hours, and suddenly things start to click together.

I dunno how you dragged FFX out to 90 hours. There was nothing in that game to warrant that kind of play file EXCEPT being one of those OCD whackos who wanted to break all the damage and health limits and retrieve every ultimate weapon in the game. There wasn't a hard fight in FFX at all-another point where the game kinda' bored me in spite of its considerably better battle system.

I mean geeze, all it took was using Rikku's Alchemy skill and you could end the games harder random encounters in the first round. If you fought a boss, you just used Rikku/Auron, Lulu, and your choice of White Mage to endure the battle just long enough to make the thing dead. FFXII is actually making me go back to some of the cheapest, oldest tricks in the series because the monsters are finally dangerous enough to warrant them.

[daiyu]

It took me ~110 hours to finish, because I was desperately trying to find some additional plot in the so-called "sidequests," to no avail (though the Gilgamesh hunt was lots of fun :)). I too was left thinking "that's it?" when the story finally sputtered out. Thinking "that's it?" at the end means that the game was too short.

Tavrobel is on to the right idea. A major problem with the game was that there wasn't enough of a storyline to sustain the rather large amounts of time you spent traversing the world. Part of the reason why FFX's story was more compelling is that it is delivered over a much shorter gametime: the game, w/o sidequests, can be finished ~40-50 hours. I am personally willing to give up game hours in exchange for stronger or at least more effective storytelling. A tighter story makes you want to go back and play again, which I don't think I ever want to do with FFXII.

Why don't they make them like they used to: FFVI was a hugely long game, yet it never for an instance stopped paying attention to storyline. Can't imagine yawning at the end of FFVI like I did at the end of FFXII.

[Crossblades]

finishing the hunts are not exactly part of the storyline. The plot doesn't change just because you beat Ultima or Gilgamesh. If i had done all those sidequests, then yes, i would've taken over hundreds of hours into it but FFX took 90 hours for me just to beat the game itself without any sidequests. And yet, i understand the characters really well. I feel for those characters but in FF12, the only people i feel for are Ashe, Basch, and Balthier because they're actually part of the events in the game. There's nothing special for Penelo except for the fact that she wants to come with Vaan. Fran is just there because Balthier is. Vaan is there because he wants to be a sky pirate.

Everything was so exciting and all of a sudden i have to go to Bahamut and a little bit later, the game ends. The sudden change is surprising.


How could it take you 90 hours to beat FF X? It took me 57 hours to beat the game AND I did 90% of the game's sidequests.

As for FF XII, I sort of find it long without the sidequests, but tthat's just me

[VengefulRonin]

finishing the hunts are not exactly part of the storyline. The plot doesn't change just because you beat Ultima or Gilgamesh. If i had done all those sidequests, then yes, i would've taken over hundreds of hours into it but FFX took 90 hours for me just to beat the game itself without any sidequests. And yet, i understand the characters really well. I feel for those characters but in FF12, the only people i feel for are Ashe, Basch, and Balthier because they're actually part of the events in the game. There's nothing special for Penelo except for the fact that she wants to come with Vaan. Fran is just there because Balthier is. Vaan is there because he wants to be a sky pirate.

Everything was so exciting and all of a sudden i have to go to Bahamut and a little bit later, the game ends. The sudden change is surprising.


How could it take you 90 hours to beat FF X? It took me 57 hours to beat the game AND I did 90% of the game's sidequests.

As for FF XII, I sort of find it long with the sidequests, but tthat's just me

Seriously...its almost impossible to put 90 hours into that game.

I find XII pretty long just from having to lv to progres through the story, but with the large amount of hunts you can do (not to mention just taking the time to find the creatures) and the quests to get optional espers, XII would take a pretty friggin long time. Not to mention there's just so much exploring you can do in areas, and whats the fun of such massive area maps if you dont take the time to explore them?

[atlanteay]

i have NO idea why it took so long for me to beat FFX... guess because it sucked so much, i just leave the game and go off somewhere else for hours and hours and come back just to see the TV still on :p but yeah... i was pretty surprised that the end came so quickly. i guess 55 hours is pretty long but not compared to the other RPGs i've played. FF6 is just amazingly long but also interesting. This one sorta lost me on the Ridoranna Cataract.

[GuitarGuy1181]

finishing the hunts are not exactly part of the storyline. The plot doesn't change just because you beat Ultima or Gilgamesh. If i had done all those sidequests, then yes, i would've taken over hundreds of hours into it but FFX took 90 hours for me just to beat the game itself without any sidequests. And yet, i understand the characters really well. I feel for those characters but in FF12, the only people i feel for are Ashe, Basch, and Balthier because they're actually part of the events in the game. There's nothing special for Penelo except for the fact that she wants to come with Vaan. Fran is just there because Balthier is. Vaan is there because he wants to be a sky pirate.

Everything was so exciting and all of a sudden i have to go to Bahamut and a little bit later, the game ends. The sudden change is surprising.


How could it take you 90 hours to beat FF X? It took me 57 hours to beat the game AND I did 90% of the game's sidequests.

As for FF XII, I sort of find it long without the sidequests, but tthat's just me

it took me 75 hours to finish X.....thats with all ultimate weapons except Wakka's, and defeating Nemesis.

[Wolf Kanno]

90 hours?!? Damn, did Yuna's total lack of a personality bore you to the point of falling asleep while playing? I mean I can see it happening, Yuna trying convince you she isn't a two dimensional stereo type, the nice soothing music of Besaid...

Seriously though, the older games are not that long either. FFIV ranks at 25 hours on average for me and that's getting everything but the rare weapons and Adamant Armor.

FFVI clocks in at 40 hours for me at the most and that's counting uncursing the Paladin Shield.

Every other game in the series has usually clocked in 30 to 40 hours, not counting trying to max levels and the insane optional boss fights.

I mean to date, the only game I've ever played that has clocked in 60 to 80 hours of gametime and it was mostly storyline was Xenogears.

I finished FFXII at 125 hours and am quite satisfied with my experience. Also, there is one loose end in the plot that is tied up in the Clan Hunts.

FFXII is designed around not having a main character, if you pay attention to the interviews, you'll notice the staff never said anything about Vaan being the main character. If I had to name the games real main character, it is Lady Ashe. I agree that Penelo and Vaan don't get much screen time, but I never cared for either character really so it was fine by me. I'm sick of RPG's revolving around teenagers who are trying to "come of age". Fran was disappointing but I toss that up into the FF "non-human character" curse. It's a shame too.

Honestly, if you were just blasting your way through the game to watch all the story, then you have sadly missed the entire point of this game...

[Slothy]

i guess 55 hours is pretty long but not compared to the other RPGs i've played. FF6 is just amazingly long but also interesting. This one sorta lost me on the Ridoranna Cataract.

What RPG's are you playing? Within the FF series, I think this will officially be the only game that I can't beat in well under 40 hours. Even when talking about other RPG's, I've rarely seen one that went much beyond 40 hours on my first playthrough. I think FF Tactics was the only one that managed that, so I guess it's no surprise that XII has as well.

[VeloZer0]

[quote=LunarWeaver;2024759...But XII is more play and less watchy, which will be good for some and bad for others I suppose.[/quote]

That is if you actually count battles as playing and not watching.

In terms of plot development the game was extremely short. Only the last 3 areas of the game offered any really interesting plot advancement, and they all end abruptly leaving a huge amount of things unconcluded.
Which is alright if you are going for the uncertain future ending, but does not work well with happily ever after.

I felt the game was very short but looking back at my play time it is a considerable length, guess it just seeped shorter because while other games have my undivided attention I was usually on the computer while I was 'playing' XII.

[remnant1]

ive played final fantasy 12 for 129 hours now and im still playing everyday.thats just how good thia game is.if you sit and think a while about the storyline it is very satifying.but i still think tactics had the better story.plotwise and lenght

[LazarCotoron]

In terms of plot development the game was extremely short. Only the last 3 areas of the game offered any really interesting plot advancement, and they all end abruptly leaving a huge amount of things unconcluded.
Which is alright if you are going for the uncertain future ending, but does not work well with happily ever after.

I dunno if I agree with that. Most 'happily ever after' endings are really not so neatly tied up. I mean, Dreamworks has made several hundred million dollars on Shrek stuff, and the story seems like it can completely end in the first movie, and it's completely finished (again) in the second movie.

I'd wager to say that if Hollywood can find a way to screw up 'happily ever after', all the loose ends are never tied up completely. Since FFXII is Matsuno's game, and since Matsuno's games always have eerie paralells with things that actually happened, I'd say that he's just being faithful to his source material, and that he's being faithful to create a realistic world.

Given that, I think perhaps your disappointment might be in how the game is NOT an ideal, magical experience in which good triumphs over evil 'once and for all'. After I played Vagrant Story, I don't even look for that in Matsuno's games... It's really not why I play and love them.

[Timerk]

I think that FFXII tied up its story pretty well, the only problem is that there wasn't much of a 'story' to begin with. The ending is much more 'happily ever after' than FFX, FFVII, or even FFVIII.

[ValiantKnight]

40hrs for VI seems incredibly short, but I did only play it on the PS version, which has horrible loading...

IV is very very fast/short.. but manages to satisfy my story needs for the most part.

Tactics was perhaps the longest FF i've put time into... it seemed as though 100hours was just scratching the surface of that game, where it is near 100% in others. And while it did have a very good story, I don't recall there being an awful lot of story telling time spent... such as with the 15minute FMVs of the VII-X era.... :)

/shrugs... I still can't comment on XII though, but there is my view on story in older FFs.

[atlanteay]

haha..my thread is getting a lot of attention :p but i think i've gotten over it... at least i still have FF3 to entertain me but once i'm done with that >.<

anyways..i think i'm gonna go back to the game again and start finishing up some of the hunts i didn't do. Are there any fun sidequests anyone might suggest ?

[VengefulRonin]

40hrs for VI seems incredibly short, but I did only play it on the PS version, which has horrible loading...

IV is very very fast/short.. but manages to satisfy my story needs for the most part.

Tactics was perhaps the longest FF i've put time into... it seemed as though 100hours was just scratching the surface of that game, where it is near 100% in others. And while it did have a very good story, I don't recall there being an awful lot of story telling time spent... such as with the 15minute FMVs of the VII-X era.... :)

/shrugs... I still can't comment on XII though, but there is my view on story in older FFs.

I still havent finished IV, i got tired of being killed and moved onto VI. On tactics my final save file is 52:55:11, and that includes me getting every optional character in the game, even cloud and his sword (although i didnt bother lvling him since by the time you can get him he's so weak compared to everyone else).

The most i ever put into a FF was 70-something hours in VII, that was because i went after the Weapons and tried to get a golden chocobo, but i gave up on that. But i'm pretty sure that I will easily surpass that in XII without having to do any hunts or get optional espers.

[soulICE]

im at almost 100 hours.. half of it was just fighting around desperate for gil... chronically broke no matter what i did! :mad:

[Wolf Kanno]

FFV is probably the only FF that really ends "Happily Ever After" for everyone at least.

FFXII's ending was more like FFVI and FFVIII's, mostly happy but with a level of uncertainty. I wouldn't say Ashe or Basch are exactly jumping for joy in the ending.

Of course, I'm bias. I hate happy endings. It was probably FFX's strong point and FFIX's weak point for me.

[farplaner]

I agree with you antlanteay. Experiencing the storyline was like hopping onto a roller coaster- it moves forward up the hill, up- up- up.... finally, you get to the top of the first hill and - THE END.

It seemed so abrupt, that I found it hard to believe when I saw my last file had 100+ hours. I think they just put so much energy into all the other stuff that the story's progression and cohesiveness suffered.

When I think of the characters, I don't feel like there's anything there to connect with. Not necessarily because they aren't interesting, but because, even at the end of the game, they all still feel somewhat like strangers to me. It's really kind of disappointing...

Luckily, I get enough enjoyment out of the leveling/collecting/developing aspects of FF's that it somewhat levels out, for me anyway.

[chrisguapo69]

Wow, I finished the game in 97 hours. But I only used the book after I got stuck at that big gate that Belias had to open. When I got the book, it was too easy. My main character was already at level 68 when I fought Vayne.

This is my first FF game I've played. I was curious to know what was all the hoopla in playing these FF games. Is it imperative to get the book everytime you play a FF game??? It seems like the main storyline is only half the game. Not only that, but even the main storyline seems too hard to figure out on your own without the book.

[Wolf Kanno]

Each game is different, so I wouldn't base your entire idea of the FF games around just one game. It's not necessary to use the books either, but if you are new to the series it's not a bad idea to use it.

[Black Magic Shopkeeper]

Vaan and Penelo do actually get enough screentime, but it's a different type.
You can see them in the background, acting like buffoons. I found this out because, during most of the cutscenes, if Baru-Sama isn't there, I tend to drive my eyes away from the main focus and enjoy the scenery.

Of course, you probably wouldn't even want to THINK about watching those two when they aren't in the foreground. They certainly do act their age.

As for the story length, I remember stating three times that it was BIG. First by looking at the size of the most detailed official walkthrough to date, next by seeing the background goings-on, and then by looking at my playtime and noticing it maxed out everything else I've ever played (except for X-2, but that's only because I kept having to start over after beating it the 100th time or so and going after another unaccomplished goal. :eep: )

I'm happy with XII. In fact, I think it's a new favorite.

[Wenco]

Eh, the play time is pretty average of a Final Fantasy.

There can be over 100 hours if one does all the sidequests and hunts.

If the story dragged out any longer, I'd be angry. The most interesting parts of the game were towards the end IMO. And if it dragged on any longer, I'm afraid that I would have quickly gotten bored.

The develepors were smart about the play time aspect. They included 60 hours of story for players who wanted to know more about characters and events. And for the player who wants to explore and do everything, playtime can go over 100 hours.

Overall, I'm satisfied with the playtime. I'm 100 or so hours into the game as I have already beaten it, and I'm going back to do everything.

Final Fantasy 12 has such a fun world to venture; I'll gladly play for more than the ending.

[Renmiri]

This game is short? Since when? Since hell froze over?

Ditto!

Granted, I'm going very slowly cause I'm ripping all maps and such images for my wiki, but still...


FFXII is a long but enjoyable game but it takes time to get into it, like mentioned above. Definitely not a game I liked from start.

[KH-Cloudy]

So the topic creator basically kinda rushed the game..

[LazarCotoron]

This is my first FF game I've played. I was curious to know what was all the hoopla in playing these FF games. Is it imperative to get the book everytime you play a FF game??? It seems like the main storyline is only half the game. Not only that, but even the main storyline seems too hard to figure out on your own without the book.

I'll give you that FFXII is a kick to the head to come into, especially if you're not familiar with the rest of Final Fantasy...though I think some of the people HERE who ARE familiar with the rest of FF may have been better off never having played another FF before...

The main story IS only half the game. You, as an individual who can think for yourself, can say "Wow-after completeing the story, I've still got a lot to do!" or "What a gyp! I can keep playing the game, but only for these stupid tacked on side quests!?" So it depends on what you think. Good, bad, and ugly are all up to you-though some people who will remain named Ultima_Weapon will try to steer you otherwise.

For what it's worth, you never 'need' the book. And I think FFXII is the second game I have ever played (first being WoW) that actually gives you enough information inside of the game that you really don't HAVE to look anything up-though some things are just faster that way. The only issue is that it's a lot of reading in the game-the Clan Primer, the random people, the Clan Hunt quest givers, guards, store clerks, everyone and many things in this game have something to say. "Knowledge is power." to quote that one guy in Archades.

Strategy guides are one of those things, Chris. You have to decide if you have the power to puzzle things out and save yourself $20 or not. Is the hoopla necessary? Not really. Did people get shot for PS3's? Yep. And it all swings around to you making choices with your money that you base off of the things you know and the things you don't know. For me, I have a certain level of gamers pride-I buy strategy guides for art, and once in a while, because I know the game has truly arcane things in it that I would never even think of. Dragon Warrior VII and Suikoden II are both excellent examples of games that I shelve my pride for.

I didn't buy a strategy guide with FFXII, and honestly, I don't think I need it. I have faith that my puzzler can puzzle until my puzzler is sore, and then it can continue to puzzle the puzzles some more. Remember, whether you think you can or can't, you're right.

[chrisguapo69]

I figured you can play the game without the book. But there just seem to be many puzzles that would take hours, even days to figure out before you get through them. I don't think I'd have the patience to do so. Also, how can you figure out the sidequests, hunts, etc without having a strategy guide? Seems like not all sidequests stand alone. Some if not, a majority of them rely on completing a task or acquiring a certain object prior to being available.

From what I've experienced I don't think you can look this up within the game itself. It's also hard to remember the info given to you by the townsfolk as well, so that can't be too reliable.

But anyway, I find this game interesting. So versatile. So challenging. I'm used to playing straightforward, linear games that have a controlled environment. Usually takes an average 3-5 days to finish on a medium-advanced setting. I'm a PC gamer. My few only games I play on PS2 is the Madden Football series and the Grand Tourismo series. I'll now add the FF series to my repretoire.

[Moon Rabbits]

After beating FFX in 30 hours, this game is refreshingly long. I'm 50 hours in and I just beat Cid. I'm not sure how far I am from the end, but I'm only Level 40, so I figure I have at least 10 more hours or so in the main story.

I don't expect to beat FFXII any time soon, because I've still got alot of hunts I want to do before I even get back to the story (Heading to Giruven (sp?) to find Cid+Venat.)

[Wolf Kanno]

Going to Archades is pretty much the halfway point of the game I believe. Yes you still have a long way to go and I'll tell you now. Try to finish up most of the hunts since you should now have access to the spells needed to do them with little frustration. Also, now is a good time to look for the optional espers...

[Renmiri]

This is my first FF game I've played. I was curious to know what was all the hoopla in playing these FF games. Is it imperative to get the book everytime you play a FF game??? It seems like the main storyline is only half the game. Not only that, but even the main storyline seems too hard to figure out on your own without the book.
I am playing my first play without "the book" and without reading ANY walkthrough, as a matter of personal challenge. I've been doing good, only got stuck once.

I got stuck at the Stillshrine of Mirian, where the on game instructions referred to the map in 3D and I kept on trying to do what made sense in the the 2D map we get with "select" :eep:

[LazarCotoron]

But anyway, I find this game interesting. So versatile. So challenging. I'm used to playing straightforward, linear games that have a controlled environment. Usually takes an average 3-5 days to finish on a medium-advanced setting. I'm a PC gamer. My few only games I play on PS2 is the Madden Football series and the Grand Tourismo series. I'll now add the FF series to my repretoire.

Well, just remember that 'Final Fantasy' doesn't make it good. If you need a list of stuff for the PS2 that's not junk-ware, I can give ya one over a PM. The existence of these forums is enough to tell you that each game in the series varies wildly from the other ones. I like FFVI, FFIX, and FFXII, as well FF Tactics. Outside of those, I think the other FF titles did some interesting things, but I don't necessarily LIKE them. It's up to you though.

On the other hand, I really haven't been having any issues with the game that I needed the book for... unlike back in Diablo 2 where they gave the Horadric Cube and told you to 'try stuff'. Don't get me wrong here-I get LOST a lot. Course, then again, I've been playing Zelda, FF, Okami, and Sly Cooper more than I play my PC. I'm probably more used to thinking about these puzzles and filling in the gaps than you are.

[farplaner]

Before I bought XII, I decided that I wouldn't look at any faqs of any kind. That's why I only started posting in XII threads (that pertain to in-game stuff) after I beat it, and I'm still careful where I venture as I've not discovered everything yet.

I'm compiling my own walkthrough (and believe it or not, that's kind of fun in itself). This means that I have to do a lot more talking and walking around to get through some of the more involved side-quests (and there aren't many that are very involved), but it's worth it to me. Especially since, in the past, I've relied heavily on guides and whatnot, going it alone is that much more rewarding.

[atlanteay]

So the topic creator basically kinda rushed the game..

i did 20 hunts and quite a few of the sidequests (and mind you they're pretty boring) i replayed the Ridoranna Cataract two times because i forgot to buy some spells. I trained for over 10 hours. I got really tired of the game at one point. However, it just doesn't give you the feeling that the BIG ending is gonna come soon. I mean, in FF7, gosh, you get a timeline of when the final battle is coming with the meteor and all. In FF8, the final fight was pretty well hinted in the 3rd disk. In FF12, i didn't even know who the final boss was even gonna be if i hadn't read those spoilers. There wasn't much signs stating that vayne is the guy you fight. I did know that somehow, you had to fight the venat after the giruvegan scene in FF7, you knew from like the first disk that you'll be fighting sephiroth.

[LazarCotoron]

Before I bought XII, I decided that I wouldn't look at any faqs of any kind. That's why I only started posting in XII threads (that pertain to in-game stuff) after I beat it, and I'm still careful where I venture as I've not discovered everything yet.

I'm compiling my own walkthrough (and believe it or not, that's kind of fun in itself). This means that I have to do a lot more talking and walking around to get through some of the more involved side-quests (and there aren't many that are very involved), but it's worth it to me. Especially since, in the past, I've relied heavily on guides and whatnot, going it alone is that much more rewarding.

Farplanar... you have no idea how happy it makes me feel to see someone who realizes that the rewards for going through something without a guide make every battle, every victory, and every moment that much more special and personal. And I can bet that as a result, you can honestly say that you 'know' this game better than any other you've ever gone through with a guide.

[Dell]

So the topic creator basically kinda rushed the game..

i did 20 hunts and quite a few of the sidequests (and mind you they're pretty boring) i replayed the Ridoranna Cataract two times because i forgot to buy some spells. I trained for over 10 hours. I got really tired of the game at one point. However, it just doesn't give you the feeling that the BIG ending is gonna come soon. I mean, in FF7, gosh, you get a timeline of when the final battle is coming with the meteor and all. In FF8, the final fight was pretty well hinted in the 3rd disk. In FF12, i didn't even know who the final boss was even gonna be if i hadn't read those spoilers. There wasn't much signs stating that vayne is the guy you fight. I did know that somehow, you had to fight the venat after the giruvegan scene in FF7, you knew from like the first disk that you'll be fighting sephiroth.

Didn't the game explain to you that you're going to stop Vayne? I think they started to mention it in Mt. Bur-Omisace. And 20 Hunts is quite low, because I already done more than 30 Hunt before I reach Ridorana.

Our country rarely have a strategy guide for sale, most of us play games without guides. It's quite fun, figuring things on your own and like Farplaner, I also make my own FAQ.

[farplaner]

Farplanar... you have no idea how happy it makes me feel to see someone who realizes that the rewards for going through something without a guide make every battle, every victory, and every moment that much more special and personal. And I can bet that as a result, you can honestly say that you 'know' this game better than any other you've ever gone through with a guide.

Glad to be of service, Lazar. :D Yes, I would say I'm learning this game, if not more completely, much more quickly than others. There's still quite a few gaps in my guide (heh, heh), but the info is accumulating quickly. I am definitely learning enemies more quickly. Instead of looking down at a magazine for a quick reference of strengths and vulnerabilities, it's trial and error with, for instance, bosses and marks, which has a tendency to engrave more clearly on the memory.

I was kind of surprised that Vayne was the end of it. In other FF's Vayne would have perhaps led to a journey to confront the "gods" on some quasi-ethereal plane. Even if there was no battle, I think they could have gone a lot further into explaining them and their place in Ivalice.

[Renmiri]

i always thought what distinguished final fantasy from all other rpgs online/offline was that it had a solid, well-developed plot. meaning much attention given to every character and the plot that could actually stand on its own (like a good movie). however, ff12 seemed to whizz by without much of that. i just felt that what actually lengthened the game were the hunts, the levelling etc.. it was like any other multi-player rpg where the entertainment is in defeating new monsters instead of the plot and character development. nonetheless, ff12 was entertaining as a whole and i'm not complaining.

QFT

[LazarCotoron]

Again, I don't agree with what anyone is saying about the story...

Then again, when FF ceased being character interactions followed by playing the game and turned into an interactive movie where the only purpose of the game between cutscenes was to get you from cutscene to cutscene marks the point where I didn't feel FF was my sort of gig anymore. This is probably why I like FFXII as much as I do. I'm 65 hours in, still fighting IN Giruvegan-I was trying to do some hunts and wound up spending the six hours I played the game yesterday on 2 story fights, 2 optional bosses (1 Esper), and a pair of rare hunts. I pretty much blundered into them while I was looking for my hunts, neat stuff, and new gear.

And if this were nearly any other game, I would've said what happened last night was a complete waste of time. In FFXII, I enjoy it because the fights are interesting and the payoff is worth it.

I'm thinking when I beat the game I'm going to have 90 hours logged the way things keep going...