underrated!

[chrisfffan]

I done a forum a while ago saying this was the best final fantasy some people agreed but I think its one of the most underrated games ever! the graphics, story and the game play are very good but I think because 7 was so good people wanted a sequel to it not a totally different story who agrees?

[Aemilius Blight]

To be quite frank I think this game gets far more praise than it deserves, even if it does receive a fair amount of hate as well. It had quite a few good ideas but they were all implemented in a mind-numbingly awful manner. It’s not a terrible game and it’s not the worst game in the series, but it’s definitely towards the bottom.

[Dagga]

Well.... I think 7 was just easier to finish... But I only prefer FFVII because of Tifa. But you're right I think it deserves more credit. I love the storyline, even though Rinoa annoys me.. I love Laguna coz he's cool and Selphie is just darn funky!

[Bart's Friend Milhouse]

When something gets too associated with the word 'underrated' it tends to get the appreciation it deserves from those who finally take some time to acknowledge it and effectively no longer remains underrated. So whilst I don't believe FFVIII is underrated anymore I still believe it is the best game of the series

[chrisfffan]

Posted by Aemilius Blight

To be quite frank I think this game gets far more praise than it deserves, even if it does receive a fair amount of hate as well. It had quite a few good ideas but they were all implemented in a mind-numbingly awful manner. It’s not a terrible game and it’s not the worst game in the series, but it’s definitely towards the bottom.


I don’t wana turn this into “FF8 is the best game because” everyone has their opinions about the best FF game but to say FF8 is one of the worst is crazy.

[Darth Anarcus]

Best Final Fantasy game ever, and deffinitely underrated. I've noticed that really smart people who are deep thinkers tend to enjoy FF8. I guess we see something much deeper in it than is apparent on the surface.

[LunarWeaver]

Hmm, the game has plenty of fans it seems to me. I rather like it quite a bit. It's a huge departure and very unique system, so it's probably just in the "love it or hate it" category of things.

[Timerk]

I've noticed that really smart people who are deep thinkers tend to enjoy FF8. I guess we see something much deeper in it than is apparent on the surface.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Whew...:p

Anyway...

You could make a case that every FF game other that IV, VI, and VII (maybe X) are underrated, because they don't appear regularly on 'Greatest Games Of All Time' lists....but come on. FFVIII has a fairly rabid fanbase, and its main character is iconic.

From what I have seen FFVIII is remembered as a very good rpg, but not a great one, and I think that is fair.

[rubah]

I think people just like to berate it xD It's definitely a very polarizing game; people who like it can't comprehend why anyone wouldn't and vice versa.

[RiseToFall]

IX = Underrated

VIII never really seemed underrated to me. Squall is probably on of the most recognizable characters from any FF game (Cloud being # 1). So no, I really don't think this game is underrated at all.

[Aemilius Blight]

I don’t wana turn this into “FF8 is the best game because” everyone has their opinions about the best FF game but to say FF8 is one of the worst is crazy.
It isn't so much a case of FFVIII being a terrible game as it is most other FF games being better.

[Darth Anarcus]

I've noticed that really smart people who are deep thinkers tend to enjoy FF8. I guess we see something much deeper in it than is apparent on the surface.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Whew...:p
Sorry, but it's true. I've noticed it.

[Takara]

This thread made me laugh out loud.

FFVIII is far from being underrated. Just compare it to games like FFV or FFT.

[Goldenboko]

Please say you aren't serious! This game is far overrated. Its love story is incredibly forced (along with the rest of the story), there is almost no difference between characters in battle except for their limits, and characters, and the level up system is cheap and abusable. The game gets far too much praise then it deserves.




I've noticed that really smart people who are deep thinkers tend to enjoy FF8. I guess we see something much deeper in it than is apparent on the surface.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Whew...:p
Sorry, but it's true. I've noticed it.

And this is the largest bull of read all day. The reason you think so deeply is because you want to believe there is depth in this game which is rather devoid of a good storyline.

Besides *we all know that the most underrated second generation game is FFIX.


*We as in fans not fanboys

[LunarWeaver]

I think people just like to berate it xD It's definitely a very polarizing game; people who like it can't comprehend why anyone wouldn't and vice versa.

Hahaha, you know that's totally true. I know people that simply cannot understand how I can play VIII at all. Although, this thread is pretty much becoming proof of the polarizing factor as well methinks.

[Ryushikaze]

I've noticed that really smart people who are deep thinkers tend to enjoy FF8. I guess we see something much deeper in it than is apparent on the surface.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Whew...:p
Sorry, but it's true. I've noticed it.

Whatever you're smoking, Anarcus, you might want to stop. FFVIII is by no means horrible, but to say that there is something incredibly deep in it is patently ridiculous. Though, sure, I'll toss you a bone. Please, enlighten us as to what the something deep you all see in it is.

[Darth Anarcus]

Well, personally, the character of Ultimecia represents so much more for me than a bland character who was randomly thrown in there. Yes, I believe an R=U theory (and you'll notice that I said an R=U theory, and not the R=U theory, meaning that I have my own which has been extensively thought out and does not contradict anything stated by Square, including in the Ultimania Guide). Ultimecia represents what Rinoa has the potential to become should she use her newfound powers unwisely. Squall's quote, "Even if the entire world is against you, I will be your knight" (paraphrased), while never actually explored in the game, was intended to make us ponder what it would be like if those words came back to haunt him. Does he defend Rinoa and her evil and unethical ways, or does he stick up for what's right and turn against his true love? This is also represented by the character of mythical beast Griever, who symbolizes Squall, the "Lionheart." Is this creature Squall? Is he bound to Ultimecia because he decided to keep his promise and fight along side her for unjust causes? Or did he turn against her, and did she not let him go and somehow imprison him, altering him into "the most powerful GF in his mind," bound by his promise he kept all those years ago?

Not only that, but for me--and you can call me cheesy if you'd like--I see lots Christological imagery throughout the entire thing, which I'm sure was unintentional. Your entire party is the collective Christ figure, where each character symbolizes a different virtue of Christ (Squall being courage, Rinoa being purity, etc.). In other words, they all make up the Body of Christ, or the Church. However, the members of the Church are not perfect, but have their weaknesses, like we see in the characters. Rinoa as an angel is important, because I see Ultimecia as the devil. And since I believe my own R=U theory, the imagery of a fallen angel works perfectly. Since each character represents a part of Christ, Rinoa--being purity--is "crucified" to Adel's chest--Adel, being an evil sorceress of the past, represents all the sins of the world--thus creating the image of the perfect Christ taking our sins upon himself. The team's plunge into the Time-Compressed World and Ultimecia's castle immediately thereafter is like the decent into Hades. And finally, Squall's "resurrection" at the end, after nearly losing his mind--remember that each character is a part of Christ, so it works that not the same one who was cruficied is the one that resurrects, since they are all the collective Christ figure--obviously represents the Resurrection. And the clouds parting and Time Compression being destroyed represents the curse being lifted from the world.

Those are my takes on things at least.

[Ryth]

Regardless of my feelings on the game (I hate it), I highly disagree that this game is underrated. It has a pretty good fanbase for sure.

[Mirage]

I don't think it's underrated at all. There are tons of people who like it.

[Ryushikaze]

Well, personally, the character of Ultimecia represents so much more for me than a bland character who was randomly thrown in there. Yes, I believe an R=U theory (and you'll notice that I said an R=U theory, and not the R=U theory, meaning that I have my own which has been extensively thought out and does not contradict anything stated by Square, including in the Ultimania Guide). Ultimecia represents what Rinoa has the potential to become should she use her newfound powers unwisely. Squall's quote, "Even if the entire world is against you, I will be your knight" (paraphrased), while never actually explored in the game, was intended to make us ponder what it would be like if those words came back to haunt him. Does he defend Rinoa and her evil and unethical ways, or does he stick up for what's right and turn against his true love? This is also represented by the character of mythical beast Griever, who symbolizes Squall, the "Lionheart." Is this creature Squall? Is he bound to Ultimecia because he decided to keep his promise and fight along side her for unjust causes? Or did he turn against her, and did she not let him go and somehow imprison him, altering him into "the most powerful GF in his mind," bound by his promise he kept all those years ago?

Not only that, but for me--and you can call me cheesy if you'd like--I see lots Christological imagery throughout the entire thing, which I'm sure was unintentional. Your entire party is the collective Christ figure, where each character symbolizes a different virtue of Christ (Squall being courage, Rinoa being purity, etc.). In other words, they all make up the Body of Christ, or the Church. However, the members of the Church are not perfect, but have their weaknesses, like we see in the characters. Rinoa as an angel is important, because I see Ultimecia as the devil. And since I believe my own R=U theory, the imagery of a fallen angel works perfectly. Since each character represents a part of Christ, Rinoa--being purity--is "crucified" to Adel's chest--Adel, being an evil sorceress of the past, represents all the sins of the world--thus creating the image of the perfect Christ taking our sins upon himself. The team's plunge into the Time-Compressed World and Ultimecia's castle immediately thereafter is like the decent into Hades. And finally, Squall's "resurrection" at the end, after nearly losing his mind--remember that each character is a part of Christ, so it works that not the same one who was cruficied is the one that resurrects, since they are all the collective Christ figure--obviously represents the Resurrection. And the clouds parting and Time Compression being destroyed represents the curse being lifted from the world.

Those are my takes on things at least.

Oh, that's Exegesis. That's Exegesis up the yin-yang. I'm sure if anything like that was in any way relevant to the plot, they might have mentioned it in the Ultimania.

But to address the R=U, just... no. Rinoa is mortal, even as a sorceress. There is not, and will never be sufficient evidence to support the R=U claim (any of them) without some massive retcons to FF8.

[enigma1234]

FFVIII best FF for now for its story..... lets see if FF14 deserves a compliment.

[Nightmare of darkness]

i dont know if any one knows but there are 2 sekret islands called island closased to hell, and island closesed to heven

http://anshiro.free.fr/Final%20Fantasy%208/Maps/Map%20_%20ff8.gif

[Anime Snave]

I must say that at first I was majorly dissapointed with the game but did learn to enjoy it as I got further into it. I cannot compare it to FF7as I have not played it but I prefer FF8 than FFX and FFX-2. Yeah the graphics are out dated but the whole concept behind it is perfect and definitely underated in my opinion!!

Yeah thos islands really did help me before I beat the final boss! They were perfect to raise Selphie! Im gnna hafta pick this game up again and have a play. Its quality!


(WH00P MY FIRST POST ON THESE FORUMS!)

-Dale/Anime-

[Darth Anarcus]

But to address the R=U, just... no. Rinoa is mortal, even as a sorceress. There is not, and will never be sufficient evidence to support the R=U claim (any of them) without some massive retcons to FF8.

Like I said, I have my own R=U theory, which doesn't rely on Rinoa living forever. I know she's mortal, and again, like I said, it in no way conflicts with the information Square has provided us with. Remember Adel's prison? It has to do with something like that.

[Aemilius Blight]

I don't really understand how it's possible in any way for Rinoa to be Ultimecia. I mean, on the way to Ultimecia's time you fight a host of sorceresses. If there are sorceresses between Rinoa and Ultimecia, that means it's impossible for them to be the same person as Rinoa would have already given up her powers to a successor.

This is all kind of off topic though. Maybe someone should make a new thread.

[Darth Anarcus]

But nowhere in the game does it ever say that there can be only one sorceress existing at a time. In fact, the tutorial says that the number of sorceresses in the world is not known. And let's not forget that Edea, followed by Rinoa who inherits her powers, exist while Adel is yet alive.

And it's also never stated that the sorceresses you fight are the ones who exist between Rinoa and Ultimecia's lifetimes. Time is being compressed, so they could be from throughout the history of the world.

[Rocket Edge]

I think IX is more underrated than VIII will ever be, however i do think that VIII is a little underrated towards VII. VIII is by out & far the best FF IMO.

[Vivisteiner]

All final fantasy games are underrated!

IX is definately more underrated than VIII.

FFVIII is a great game, but just a bit too easy.



i dont know if any one knows but there are 2 sekret islands called island closased to hell, and island closesed to heven
The islands of loads of magic.


I've noticed that really smart people who are deep thinkers tend to enjoy FF8. I guess we see something much deeper in it than is apparent on the surface.
lol. How did ya get that?

[Darth Anarcus]

Er, because most of the people I've met that enjoy it seem to be smarter. And the explainations I've provided.

[f f freak]

So essentially what you're saying is "AnY1Z dat does not totzally lurve dis Game is da Stoopid!!!" am I right?

[Timerk]

Er, because most of the people I've met that enjoy it seem to be smarter.

You need to visit some other forums, my friend.

[aquatius]

WTF? Everyone is like "Oh, FFVIII is the greatest game in the world!" and IX is the uderrated one you fool!

[Darth Anarcus]

So essentially what you're saying is "AnY1Z dat does not totzally lurve dis Game is da Stoopid!!!" am I right?
Er, sure.

You need to visit some other forums, my friend.
I'm not getting that from any forum. I'm talking about people I know personally.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

I think that this game is just great and should be respected more. Same goes for IX but I'm not going to get off topic. I think that people who do not look into the story do not appreciate it as much. You pretty much have to put yourself into it to figure out how it goes, then the game goes so much better and smoothly.

[f f freak]

So essentially what you're saying is "AnY1Z dat does not totzally lurve dis Game is da Stoopid!!!" am I right?
Er, sure.

Aha!!! So you admit you are calling other people stupid for not liking this game.

[Qurange]

I love FFVIII. It's by far my favorite game--and though I do think that there are a lot of people who don't properly appreciate it, I'm not sure that I can call any FF game underrated--the FF series is so widely-known that most have at least heard of any game numbered in the series. FFT, now, that could be underrated.

But even though I do see more in FFVIII than most, I think it's a mistake to imply that one's own likes and dislikes are inherently better than someone else's. I write and read fanfiction, and from what I've seen, there are unintelligent and immature people among the fanbase, just like of any other game.

(Though it is a polarizing game--and I think that what's special about it isn't necessarily in its fans having a certain intellectual makeup but an emotional one.)

[Darth Anarcus]

So essentially what you're saying is "AnY1Z dat does not totzally lurve dis Game is da Stoopid!!!" am I right?
Er, sure.

Aha!!! So you admit you are calling other people stupid for not liking this game.
No, I didn't understand what you wrote because I speak English.;)

You're not stupid because you don't like FF8. You don't like FF8 because you're stupid. Big difference. (And that is a joke, in case it isn't obvious.)

[Vivisteiner]

Er, because most of the people I've met that enjoy it seem to be smarter. And the explainations I've provided.

Yeah, but thats not really reliable because its your personal experiences. Maybe you should do a survey?

I mean, you dont really have to be smart to understand FFVIII. Its not like it has advanced quantum mechanics in it. Or does it...?

[Darth Anarcus]

Not to understand it, but to see beneath the surface.

[XxSephirothxX]

Regardless of my feelings on the game (I hate it), I highly disagree that this game is underrated. It has a pretty good fanbase for sure.
Yuh-huh.

[f f freak]

No, I didn't understand what you wrote because I speak English.

It was n00b speak. Obviuosly you aren't as smart as you think considering that was basic n00b speak with most of the words perfectly understandable and I used that language to describe perfectly what you were saying.

[Darth Anarcus]

Actually, I choose to skip over and ignore anything that looks like that. So it's not that I don't understand it, it's that I don't read it.

I'm the smartest person I know.:D

[f f freak]

Oh you're so modest!!!

[PuPu]

You must be joking. FFVIII is hardly underrated, judging by all the fanboys/fangirls who go raving on about it. There are even some which I can probably guess on Eyes on FF. There's probably a decent amount of fanboys/fangirls of FFVIII more than there are haters. It's a highly overrated game, though probably not as overrated as FFX and definitely not as overrated as FFVII.

There was no "depth" to FFVIII more than any other love story. Maybe there was more "depth" than the love stories of other FF's, since all of FFVIII was about Rinoa and Squall's love. As to the R=U theory, didn't Rinoa only get sorceress abilities because Ultimecia possessed her? That's probably why she only got "Angel Wing" after when she was possessed. As for Griever, she probably only created him out of Squall's imagination, probably to scare him. And if R=U were true, why would Ultimecia be fighting Rinoa? Without going into Time Compression jargon, Rinoa was Ultimecia before turning evil right? Well, that would mean that if Rinoa was dead, Ultimecia wouldn't exist then. Like people say, there really is not enough proof for R=U other than theories and "symbolism" in the game. And symbolism can be determined in many ways.

[Shiny]

The millions of fanboys/girls that claim it to be the best Final Fantasy is a contradiction to it being underrated. It was highly acclaimed by game reviewers as well, so I don't see why this is even debatable.

[*~Angel Wing~*]

I love FFVIII. It's by far my favorite game--and though I do think that there are a lot of people who don't properly appreciate it, I'm not sure that I can call any FF game underrated--the FF series is so widely-known that most have at least heard of any game numbered in the series. FFT, now, that could be underrated.

But even though I do see more in FFVIII than most, I think it's a mistake to imply that one's own likes and dislikes are inherently better than someone else's. I write and read fanfiction, and from what I've seen, there are unintelligent and immature people among the fanbase, just like of any other game.

(Though it is a polarizing game--and I think that what's special about it isn't necessarily in its fans having a certain intellectual makeup but an emotional one.)
I totally agree. :up:

Final Fantasy VIII is my favorite game ever!!! :heart:

[chrisfffan]

This was posted by Goldenboco
Please say you aren't serious! This game is far overrated. Its love story is incredibly forced (along with the rest of the story), there is almost no difference between characters in battle except for their limits, and characters, and the level up system is cheap and abusable. The game gets far too much praise then it deserves.


I think you summed up what I was talking about with that comment alone it proves its underrated! by a few most notably you!
Why do you bother coming on to FF8 forums? all you do is slag the game off! At every opportunity and with the characters gamplay what are you talking about? there is a difference between the characters like Tifa in FF7 Zell uses his hands, squall uses a gun blade similar to Clouds sword and Irvine uses a gun like Barretts! The limit breaks are better than in 7 too.

[Odaisé Gaelach]

So essentially what you're saying is "AnY1Z dat does not totzally lurve dis Game is da Stoopid!!!" am I right?
Er, sure.

:(

Didn't Gamespot gave FFVIII a score of 9.5? Doesn't sound underrated to me.

[f f freak]

there is a difference between the characters like Tifa in FF7 Zell uses his hands, squall uses a gun blade similar to Clouds sword and Irvine uses a gun like Barretts

You do realize how much you have contradicted yourself right? You said that the characters are different from FF7's and then you go and say Squall uses a Gun Blade similar to Cloud's sword?!

[chrisfffan]

no I didn’t Goldenboco said theirs no difference between the characters he didn’t say their is no difference between the characters in 7 and 8.

[*~Angel Wing~*]

I think what people really mean is Final Fantasy VIII is underated to FF7, and I have to agree with that. :mad: :eep:

They have all this stuff for FF7: Advent Children, Dirge Of Cerberus, Last Order...ect. :rolleyes2

I think it's getting WAAAY too much publicity then it deserves. :eep: I'll admit FF7 was a very good game, but I'm a Final Fantasy VIII fan all the way, and I think 8 is a better game then 7. :moomba:

[f f freak]

To chrisfffan:
You know it might be easier to understand your posts if you learnt some sort of grammar so that the words are spelt correctly at least.
And also to try and answer what you said. There isn't really any difference between the characters in 7 and 8. Squall uses a sword and Cloud uses a sword. Zell uses martial arts and so does Tifa. I'm not seeing much change.

[Darth Anarcus]

There was no "depth" to FFVIII more than any other love story. Maybe there was more "depth" than the love stories of other FF's, since all of FFVIII was about Rinoa and Squall's love. As to the R=U theory, didn't Rinoa only get sorceress abilities because Ultimecia possessed her? That's probably why she only got "Angel Wing" after when she was possessed. As for Griever, she probably only created him out of Squall's imagination, probably to scare him. And if R=U were true, why would Ultimecia be fighting Rinoa? Without going into Time Compression jargon, Rinoa was Ultimecia before turning evil right? Well, that would mean that if Rinoa was dead, Ultimecia wouldn't exist then. Like people say, there really is not enough proof for R=U other than theories and "symbolism" in the game. And symbolism can be determined in many ways.
Ultimecia has no memory of her former life whatsoever, and therefore has no idea who Squall and Rinoa are.

[Goldenboko]

This was posted by Goldenboco
Please say you aren't serious! This game is far overrated. Its love story is incredibly forced (along with the rest of the story), there is almost no difference between characters in battle except for their limits, and characters, and the level up system is cheap and abusable. The game gets far too much praise then it deserves.


I think you summed up what I was talking about with that comment alone it proves its underrated! by a few most notably you!
Why do you bother coming on to FF8 forums? all you do is slag the game off!
Why is actually none of your business. But to totally demolish this statement I come to this forum because I thought the game was decent, I sound like I hate it because I'm one of the few people who don't blow the game out of proportion. I thought the game was O.K. no more no less.



At every opportunity and with the characters gamplay what are you talking about? there is a difference between the characters like Tifa in FF7 Zell uses his hands, squall uses a gun blade similar to Clouds sword and Irvine uses a gun like Barretts! The limit breaks are better than in 7 too.
And is there a difference between having Irvine use his gun and Selphie use her whip? No there isn't because you can easily buff your attacks to 9,999. I feel the same way about FFVII. And about Limits, this game's limits SUCKED! Why? Because you can use them easily in any battle, do crazy amounts of damage, and take away all strategy from the game. A real difference between characters would be like Armarant and Eiko, Armarant is mainly good for attacking, because his magic fails in comparison to his physical attack damage, where Eiko is only good for healing and summoning because she can't to good physical damage.


Also...



There was no "depth" to FFVIII more than any other love story. Maybe there was more "depth" than the love stories of other FF's, since all of FFVIII was about Rinoa and Squall's love. As to the R=U theory, didn't Rinoa only get sorceress abilities because Ultimecia possessed her? That's probably why she only got "Angel Wing" after when she was possessed. As for Griever, she probably only created him out of Squall's imagination, probably to scare him. And if R=U were true, why would Ultimecia be fighting Rinoa? Without going into Time Compression jargon, Rinoa was Ultimecia before turning evil right? Well, that would mean that if Rinoa was dead, Ultimecia wouldn't exist then. Like people say, there really is not enough proof for R=U other than theories and "symbolism" in the game. And symbolism can be determined in many ways.
Ultimecia has no memory of her former life whatsoever, and therefore has no idea who Squall and Rinoa are.

Where is any of this even hinted in game?

[chrisfffan]

Goldenboco ment that all the characters and the gameplay of the characters were the same in 8 he didn’t mention 7 I did because the characters are similar and nobody says they are all the same in 7 do they?

[f f freak]

Goldenboco just did!!! But you compared FF8 characters to FF7 characters!!!! WHY???!!!

[Shiny]

I don't get why people keep comparing and contrasting FF7 and FF8. None of the others seem to get that kind of attention. But, in actuality Square releasing sequels to FF7 and FF10 has nothing to do with ratings per se. It has to do with marketing mainly and where they left the original games off at. That doesn't necessarily make FF8 a better game, or a worse game for not having sequels. It's pretty much on the same level with all the FF's it's all a matter of preference. Therefore, you can't really consider any of them underrated. The whole series has had its shinning period.

[chrisfffan]

on the first post he didn’t he just did then yea! anyway I said about the similarities of the characters in 7 and 8 because some people think the characters in 8 are weak but they are similar to the characters in 7.

[f f freak]

They may be similar but that doesn't mean they have the same strengths and weaknesses.

[chrisfffan]

I wasn’t talking about the strengths and weaknesses I was talking about the characters them selves and the weapons they use.

[f f freak]

If you mean personality then you are very much mistaken. Give me proof. Show me how Aeris's and Rinoa's weapons are the same. Show me how Squall's and Yuffie's personalities are similar.

[NeoCracker]

VIII is by far from Underated. I'm with those saying its overrrated.
Greatest HIts, 9.5 at IGN, I believe it was voted #3 final fantasy on Filter, beaten by X and VII, and some of the most annoying Fan Boys I have ever seen in my entire life.

But meh, to each their own.

*Cough*IX''s better*Cough*

[chrisfffan]

replying to F F Freak!

Hers just a few similarities between 7 and 8
1.Clouds isn’t very social neither is squall they both have swords as weapons.
2. Rinoa falls in love with the main character and has healing powers.
3. Zell and Tifa both use their hands in battle.

[f f freak]

So you can't answer the request I made then? Also allow me to destroy No.s 1. and 2.

1. Squall has a Gun Blade not a sword.
2. This makes no sense. Just a pointless fact about Rinoa. Also the fact that she also has magic like Fire and Blizzard not just healing magic.

[Goldenboko]

Goldenboco ment that all the characters and the gameplay of the characters were the same in 8 he didn’t mention 7 I did because the characters are similar and nobody says they are all the same in 7 do they?

First off I do. I think that the characters in FFVII are incredibly similiar and lack distinguishing abilities in battle. I didn't bring that up because I'm not talking about what I disliked about FFVII I'm talking about what I disliked in FFVIII.


on the first post he didn’t he just did then yea! anyway I said about the similarities of the characters in 7 and 8 because some people think the characters in 8 are weak but they are similar to the characters in 7.

Secondly, is this english? I honestly have no idea what the **** you are saying here.


And thirdly the topic of this thread is is FFVIII underrated? The answer is no. It has more then its fair share of fans, its characters are very distinguishable, and you can even tell that it isn't underrated in EoFF because it's forum has more posts then any other FF forum except FFVII.

[Odaisé Gaelach]

and you can even tell that it isn't underrated in EoFF because it's forum has more posts then any other FF forum except FFVII.

In all fairness, about half of those posts are pointless back and forth arguments about the R=U theory.

[Darth Anarcus]

Also...



There was no "depth" to FFVIII more than any other love story. Maybe there was more "depth" than the love stories of other FF's, since all of FFVIII was about Rinoa and Squall's love. As to the R=U theory, didn't Rinoa only get sorceress abilities because Ultimecia possessed her? That's probably why she only got "Angel Wing" after when she was possessed. As for Griever, she probably only created him out of Squall's imagination, probably to scare him. And if R=U were true, why would Ultimecia be fighting Rinoa? Without going into Time Compression jargon, Rinoa was Ultimecia before turning evil right? Well, that would mean that if Rinoa was dead, Ultimecia wouldn't exist then. Like people say, there really is not enough proof for R=U other than theories and "symbolism" in the game. And symbolism can be determined in many ways.
Ultimecia has no memory of her former life whatsoever, and therefore has no idea who Squall and Rinoa are.

Where is any of this even hinted in game?
Put two and two together. I provided the evidence that Rinoa may be Ultimecia (didn't say for sure, which is what forces us to use our brains). Ultimecia tries to kill Squall and Rinoa and seems not to know who they are. GFs make people forget things. Ultimecia uses at least one GF that we know about: Griever.

Logic, people. Logic. Am I the only one with pointed ears here?;)

[PuPu]

This was posted by Goldenboco
Please say you aren't serious! This game is far overrated. Its love story is incredibly forced (along with the rest of the story), there is almost no difference between characters in battle except for their limits, and characters, and the level up system is cheap and abusable. The game gets far too much praise then it deserves.


I think you summed up what I was talking about with that comment alone it proves its underrated! by a few most notably you!
Why do you bother coming on to FF8 forums? all you do is slag the game off! At every opportunity and with the characters gamplay what are you talking about? there is a difference between the characters like Tifa in FF7 Zell uses his hands, squall uses a gun blade similar to Clouds sword and Irvine uses a gun like Barretts! The limit breaks are better than in 7 too.

Why do you bother coming on EoFF either? All you do is go around acting all fanboyish to games such as FFVII and FFVIII and I hear you bash on FF Originals a lot because of their "crap graphics" or "horrible storyline." Just because Boco didn't agree with you doesn't mean that he is saying FF8 sucks. After all, I might not agree with your views of Final Fantasy, but it doesn't necessarily make you or me right. So why don't you stop acting like a predictable, ignorant fanboy/noob just because someone doesn't agree with you.

To get back on topic...

Anarcus, how did you know about the "other" GFs that Ultimecia used? Were there any? Can we prove there were more? Ok, I somehow don't think that she used Griever as a GF. It seemed (at least this is how it is to me anyways) that Griever was created using Ultimecia's magic, manifesting Squall's imagination of the most powerful GF into physical form. In short, an illusion of Ultimecia's magic. And with GF's, you obviously have them Junctioned to you, but in the battle, she said "I shall now Junction myself....unto Greiver!" This was like how Adel "Junctioned" Rinoa, but Rinoa wasn't a GF though.

[Darth Anarcus]

I never said she used any other GFs. I said she used at least one GF that we know of.

My take on the Griever thing is that when Squall was killed, Rinoa blocked his path to the afterlife and imprisoned it in the Griever ring--something had had sentimental value to him--where over time he was transformed into "the most powerful GF in Squall's mind." He had become what he had imagined the legendary Griever would have been like. Thus, the GF that he had become was the most powerful GF "in his mind," i.e. he transformed into what he had imagined all of his life. This gives Ultimecia's "juntioning unto Griever" so much more meaning.

[NeoCracker]

Also...



There was no "depth" to FFVIII more than any other love story. Maybe there was more "depth" than the love stories of other FF's, since all of FFVIII was about Rinoa and Squall's love. As to the R=U theory, didn't Rinoa only get sorceress abilities because Ultimecia possessed her? That's probably why she only got "Angel Wing" after when she was possessed. As for Griever, she probably only created him out of Squall's imagination, probably to scare him. And if R=U were true, why would Ultimecia be fighting Rinoa? Without going into Time Compression jargon, Rinoa was Ultimecia before turning evil right? Well, that would mean that if Rinoa was dead, Ultimecia wouldn't exist then. Like people say, there really is not enough proof for R=U other than theories and "symbolism" in the game. And symbolism can be determined in many ways.
Ultimecia has no memory of her former life whatsoever, and therefore has no idea who Squall and Rinoa are.

Where is any of this even hinted in game?
Put two and two together. I provided the evidence that Rinoa may be Ultimecia (didn't say for sure, which is what forces us to use our brains). Ultimecia tries to kill Squall and Rinoa and seems not to know who they are. GFs make people forget things. Ultimecia uses at least one GF that we know about: Griever.

Logic, people. Logic. Am I the only one with pointed ears here?;)

You do realize that she may not know who they are because she never met them, and may not be related in any way, shape or form? Memory loss does not give any slight hint that she knew them at any point, nor does it hint that she might be Rinoa.

That is like saying I am eating a taco, a cow died a while ago. I am eating that very cow.

[Goldenboko]

and you can even tell that it isn't underrated in EoFF because it's forum has more posts then any other FF forum except FFVII.

In all fairness, about half of those posts are pointless back and forth arguments about the R=U theory.

True, true, I'll give you that.



Also...



There was no "depth" to FFVIII more than any other love story. Maybe there was more "depth" than the love stories of other FF's, since all of FFVIII was about Rinoa and Squall's love. As to the R=U theory, didn't Rinoa only get sorceress abilities because Ultimecia possessed her? That's probably why she only got "Angel Wing" after when she was possessed. As for Griever, she probably only created him out of Squall's imagination, probably to scare him. And if R=U were true, why would Ultimecia be fighting Rinoa? Without going into Time Compression jargon, Rinoa was Ultimecia before turning evil right? Well, that would mean that if Rinoa was dead, Ultimecia wouldn't exist then. Like people say, there really is not enough proof for R=U other than theories and "symbolism" in the game. And symbolism can be determined in many ways.
Ultimecia has no memory of her former life whatsoever, and therefore has no idea who Squall and Rinoa are.

Where is any of this even hinted in game?
Put two and two together. I provided the evidence that Rinoa may be Ultimecia (didn't say for sure, which is what forces us to use our brains). Ultimecia tries to kill Squall and Rinoa and seems not to know who they are. GFs make people forget things. Ultimecia uses at least one GF that we know about: Griever.

Logic, people. Logic. Am I the only one with pointed ears here?;)


I never said she used any other GFs. I said she used at least one GF that we know of.

My take on the Griever thing is that when Squall was killed, Rinoa blocked his path to the afterlife and imprisoned it in the Griever ring--something had had sentimental value to him--where over time he was transformed into "the most powerful GF in Squall's mind." He had become what he had imagined the legendary Griever would have been like. Thus, the GF that he had become was the most powerful GF "in his mind," i.e. he transformed into what he had imagined all of his life. This gives Ultimecia's "juntioning unto Griever" so much more meaning.

Rinoa blocked his path to the...
Oh won't even try to figure out how she could possibly do that...

Anyway, would you mind explaining to me how she lived that long? Rinoa's not immortal, face it there is the R=U theories aren't backed in the game.

You are trying to add depth to a depthless villian.

R=U is less then a theory, more of a fanfic, but not factually at all.

[Darth Anarcus]

You do realize that she may not know who they are because she never met them, and may not be related in any way, shape or form? Memory loss does not give any slight hint that she knew them at any point, nor does it hint that she might be Rinoa.
Yes, I realise this. If she, in fact, is not Rinoa, then this is the obvious answer. If she is, then I coupled this theory with what I was saying earlier.

Rinoa blocked his path to the...
Oh won't even try to figure out how she could possibly do that...

Anyway, would you mind explaining to me how she lived that long? Rinoa's not immortal, face it there is the R=U theories aren't backed in the game.
I said it already: Sorceress prison. You know, like the one they put Adel in? She didn't seem to need sustainence while in it and also appeared to be in suspended animation, so that's the most obvious theory.

As to the soul-suspending thing, I think of the relationship between a sorceress and her knight to be similar to that of a summoner and her guardian in FFX, in that special bonds--love being the most obvious--gives her more power over her knight. This ties into another theory I have that all Final Fantasies are related, but that's a whole 'nother ballpark. Evidence of a sorceress having some effect over her knight's will is the flashback to when the team defeated Edea and watched as Seifer helped the newly-possessed Rinoa to her feet. He seems to be in some sort of a trance, and acknowledges the puppeteer being as "Sorceress Ultimecia."

I think GFs are exactly this: sorceresses' knights whose souls were bound to something to alter them into demons. This is based on the Doomtrain ring and the Diablos lamp, and putting this idea in motion is what makes me think that Squall was bound to the Griever ring from whence he emerged years later as Griever.

You are trying to add depth to a depthless villian.
Yes! Exaclty my point! I--and many others--see things like this as there being more than what is apparent.

Well, I've hardly tried. I've always been convinced of it and seeing this theme throughout the game--intentional or not--was always there. It's the explaination part as to how it all went down where trying come into play.

[Ryushikaze]

Like I said, I have my own R=U theory, which doesn't rely on Rinoa living forever. I know she's mortal, and again, like I said, it in no way conflicts with the information Square has provided us with. Remember Adel's prison? It has to do with something like that.

Oh... not this smeg again... We had to deal with this trite before. You aren't pushing anything new by trying to invoke the Prison.


But nowhere in the game does it ever say that there can be only one sorceress existing at a time. In fact, the tutorial says that the number of sorceresses in the world is not known. And let's not forget that Edea, followed by Rinoa who inherits her powers, exist while Adel is yet alive.

And it's also never stated that the sorceresses you fight are the ones who exist between Rinoa and Ultimecia's lifetimes. Time is being compressed, so they could be from throughout the history of the world.

Or they could be in between you and Ultimecia, since, y'know, you're travelling forward through time, Ulti is controlling them, and her machine has a limit.


Er, because most of the people I've met that enjoy it seem to be smarter. And the explainations I've provided.

Correlation!= Causation.


Actually, I choose to skip over and ignore anything that looks like that. So it's not that I don't understand it, it's that I don't read it.

I'm the smartest person I know.:D

You must not know anyone. Poor dear.


Ultimecia has no memory of her former life whatsoever, and therefore has no idea who Squall and Rinoa are.

In short, making her Rinoa in body only. Yes. Tons of depth. If you'll excuse me, I'm drowning in the sarcasm.


Put two and two together. I provided the evidence that Rinoa may be Ultimecia (didn't say for sure, which is what forces us to use our brains). Ultimecia tries to kill Squall and Rinoa and seems not to know who they are. GFs make people forget things. Ultimecia uses at least one GF that we know about: Griever.

Logic, people. Logic. Am I the only one with pointed ears here?;)

Just because you're physically deformed, it neither makes you logical, nor a space elf. You are, to repeat a coining, sodomizing parsimony with a marital aid made from prison plumbing. The above is a HUGE non sequitor.


My take on the Griever thing is that when Squall was killed, Rinoa blocked his path to the afterlife and imprisoned it in the Griever ring--something had had sentimental value to him--where over time he was transformed into "the most powerful GF in Squall's mind." He had become what he had imagined the legendary Griever would have been like. Thus, the GF that he had become was the most powerful GF "in his mind," i.e. he transformed into what he had imagined all of his life. This gives Ultimecia's "juntioning unto Griever" so much more meaning.

And with THAT outrageous claim, you render your ability to prove it completely impossible. You fail, good day, enjoy your biscuit.



Yes, I realise this. If she, in fact, is not Rinoa, then this is the positive answer. Is she is, then I coupled this theory with what I was saying earlier.

Theory, no. Wild screaming postulate, maybe.


I said it already: Sorceress prison. You know, like the one they put Adel in? She didn't seem to need sustainence while in it and also appeared to be in suspended animation, so that's the most obvious theory.

Even assuming that it keeps her perfectly suspended (It doesn't), Rinoa still eventually ages and dies.


As to the soul-suspending thing, I think of the relationship between a sorceress and her knight to be similar to that of a summoner and her guardian in FFX, in that special bonds--love being the most obvious--gives her more power over her knight. This ties into another theory I have that all Final Fantasies are related, but that's a whole 'nother ballpark. Evidence of a sorceress having some effect over her knight's will is the flashback to when the team defeated Edea and watched as Seifer helped the newly-possessed Rinoa to her feet. He seems to be in some sort of a trance, and [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=&quot][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]acknowledges the puppeteer being as "Sorceress Ultimecia."

You DO realize she was actually using Mind Control on the boy, si?
Oh, and prove your claim that Sorcerer/Knight grants them powers. Though where are you getting the "guardian powers" thing from?


I think GFs are exactly this: sorceresses' knights whose souls were bound to something to alter them into demons. This is based on the Doomtrain ring and the Diablos lamp, and putting this idea in motion is what makes me think that Squall was bound to the Griever ring from whence he emerged years later as Griever.

In short- No. In long- Prove it.


Yes! Exaclty my point! I--and many others--see things like this as there being more than what is apparent.

No, you're trying to make up what simply is not there.


Well, I've hardly tried. I've always been convinced of it and seeing this theme throughout the game--intentional or not--was always there. It's the explaination part as to how it all went down where trying come into play.

When an explanation requires far more rings than the entire corps of lanterns, it has issues, to say the least.

[The Crystal]

Ultimecia appeared few times in the game, but allways when she appeared, she has that air of mistery and wisdom around her, if you understand what i mean. She is a good villain, in my opinion.

[Qurange]

Personally, I'm still of the opinion that Ultimecia works best with her mystery intact. Part of the point was that she was from a future so far along so as to be almost unrecognizeable--it makes great fanfic fodder, but sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.

And sometimes, Ultimecia is that cigar.

[*~Angel Wing~*]

on the first post he didn’t he just did then yea! anyway I said about the similarities of the characters in 7 and 8 because some people think the characters in 8 are weak but they are similar to the characters in 7.
FFVIII characters were weak!? :Oo: NO WAY!!! :hot: I think the characters in 7 were VERY weak and had NO personality. :nonono:

And not to mention Cloud was an awful main character...always complaining, negative attitude, extremely selfish, boring...ect. :eep:

Don't say Squall was like that, cuz he wasn't!!! :frust: :hot: :nonono:

[Rocket Edge]

Personally, I'm still of the opinion that Ultimecia works best with her mystery intact. Part of the point was that she was from a future so far along so as to be almost unrecognizeable.
I agree. People used to mention this to me, but i was always to that opinion.

Ultimecia appeared few times in the game, but allways when she appeared, she has that air of mistery and wisdom around her, if you understand what i mean. She is a good villain, in my opinion.
Exactly, that's what she intelled to me too. She's my favourite villian.

on the first post he didn’t he just did then yea! anyway I said about the similarities of the characters in 7 and 8 because some people think the characters in 8 are weak but they are similar to the characters in 7.
C'mon man, there is absolutely no reason to suggest that the VIII characters are weak, & don't say that it's just because of the whole GF situation either, because that's a silly argument.

And not to mention Cloud was an awful main character...always complaining, negative attitude, extremely selfish, boring...ect. :eep:
I think Cloud wasn't exactly a bad main character, but he was annoying at times, so i do agree with you. It's hard to put my finger on it, but Squall to me was just an extremely likable character. Another thing was that VIII really brought out the personality of Squall more than any other character in the series at that time.

[Darth Anarcus]

But nowhere in the game does it ever say that there can be only one sorceress existing at a time. In fact, the tutorial says that the number of sorceresses in the world is not known. And let's not forget that Edea, followed by Rinoa who inherits her powers, exist while Adel is yet alive.

And it's also never stated that the sorceresses you fight are the ones who exist between Rinoa and Ultimecia's lifetimes. Time is being compressed, so they could be from throughout the history of the world.

Or they could be in between you and Ultimecia, since, y'know, you're travelling forward through time, Ulti is controlling them, and her machine has a limit.
But you're not traveling through time. Time is compressing. It's all becoming one. Odine states this in the game.


Actually, I choose to skip over and ignore anything that looks like that. So it's not that I don't understand it, it's that I don't read it.

I'm the smartest person I know.:D

You must not know anyone. Poor dear.
Entirely uncalled for. I think my proven 161 IQ speaks for itself.


Ultimecia has no memory of her former life whatsoever, and therefore has no idea who Squall and Rinoa are.

In short, making her Rinoa in body only. Yes. Tons of depth. If you'll excuse me, I'm drowning in the sarcasm.
No, not really. I like to think (but, of course, can't prove anything on this) that she remembered everything when she appeared to Squall and Edea at the orphanage at the end, possibly falling through the same sort of time rifts that Squall was falling through, maybe having to do with her life. Again, it's just a theory.


Put two and two together. I provided the evidence that Rinoa may be Ultimecia (didn't say for sure, which is what forces us to use our brains). Ultimecia tries to kill Squall and Rinoa and seems not to know who they are. GFs make people forget things. Ultimecia uses at least one GF that we know about: Griever.

Logic, people. Logic. Am I the only one with pointed ears here?;)

Just because you're physically deformed, it neither makes you logical, nor a space elf. You are, to repeat a coining, sodomizing parsimony with a marital aid made from prison plumbing. The above is a HUGE non sequitor.
I'm physically deformed? Right. I hate when people spit out insults during a debate just to make themsleves seem stronger. Especially a debate over a video game! Try not to take things to heart so easily, huh?


My take on the Griever thing is that when Squall was killed, Rinoa blocked his path to the afterlife and imprisoned it in the Griever ring--something had had sentimental value to him--where over time he was transformed into "the most powerful GF in Squall's mind." He had become what he had imagined the legendary Griever would have been like. Thus, the GF that he had become was the most powerful GF "in his mind," i.e. he transformed into what he had imagined all of his life. This gives Ultimecia's "juntioning unto Griever" so much more meaning.

And with THAT outrageous claim, you render your ability to prove it completely impossible. You fail, good day, enjoy your biscuit.
Again, it's a theory coupled with my theory of how all the Final Fantasy games are connected. The theories are connected.

And once again, quite with the insults. We're discussing a video game. There's no reason for such a discussion to become heated.


I said it already: Sorceress prison. You know, like the one they put Adel in? She didn't seem to need sustainence while in it and also appeared to be in suspended animation, so that's the most obvious theory.
Even assuming that it keeps her perfectly suspended (It doesn't), Rinoa still eventually ages and dies.
I'll play a you here: do you have any proof that it does not?


As to the soul-suspending thing, I think of the relationship between a sorceress and her knight to be similar to that of a summoner and her guardian in FFX, in that special bonds--love being the most obvious--gives her more power over her knight. This ties into another theory I have that all Final Fantasies are related, but that's a whole 'nother ballpark. Evidence of a sorceress having some effect over her knight's will is the flashback to when the team defeated Edea and watched as Seifer helped the newly-possessed Rinoa to her feet. He seems to be in some sort of a trance, and [/size][/font] [font=&quot][font=Verdana][size=2]acknowledges the puppeteer being as "Sorceress Ultimecia."

You DO realize she was actually using Mind Control on the boy, si?
Oh, and prove your claim that Sorcerer/Knight grants them powers. Though where are you getting the "guardian powers" thing from?
Part of this comes from my belief that Squall died at the end, and that Rinoa revived him. This is an entirely different theory, and I'll be happy to post it if need be.

[quote]I think GFs are exactly this: sorceresses' knights whose souls were bound to something to alter them into demons. This is based on the Doomtrain ring and the Diablos lamp, and putting this idea in motion is what makes me think that Squall was bound to the Griever ring from whence he emerged years later as Griever.In short- No. In long- Prove it.
I cannot, of course. But can you prove that this is not the case? Once again, it's linked with my FF-connection theory.


Yes! Exaclty my point! I--and many others--see things like this as there being more than what is apparent.No, you're trying to make up what simply is not there.
What I'm making up is the how. Playing the game, this theme was blatantly obvious to me, whether it was intentional or not. It adds meaning to both the characters of Ultimecia and Rinoa, as well as Squall's promise. It makes one wonder how far he'll go with it.

Even if Rinoa is not Ultimecia, Ultimecia represents what Rinoa has the potential to become. If not the Ultimecia, given the past of how sorceresses seem to be prone to misbehavior, the deffinitely has the potential to become an Ultimecia.


Well, I've hardly tried. I've always been convinced of it and seeing this theme throughout the game--intentional or not--was always there. It's the explaination part as to how it all went down where trying come into play.
When an explanation requires far more rings than the entire corps of lanterns, it has issues, to say the least.
I believe Rinoa is Ultimecia. The things I've listed are theories, not proofs. It's really impossible to prove; but, I also believe it's impossible to entirely disprove as well. If you like, fine, we can throw out everything I've said. What we're left with is a mystery. I know Rinoa and Ulitmecia are the same person, but the how is a mystery; and therein lies the appeal.

And like I said, if she is not actually Ultimecia, then Ultimecia represents a possible path that Rinoa can take if she chooses. It is a story of morality. Would she see just what is possible with her sorceress powers and attempt the same thing? And if so, would Squall stand with her as he promised, or would "his sword peirce her heart," as she said. It represents tough choices for both of them as a couple, and this is why I say there is so much more depth to FF8 than meets the eye, because we never know what the future might bring, dispite this chapter's happy ending.

[f f freak]

I know Rinoa and Ulitmecia are the same person,

You know they are? Impossible. Don't make up such stupid comments. Or are you implying that you work for Square? I highly doubt that. Besides people have stated in countless interviews and the like that Rinoa is NOT and will never be Ultimecia. Stop trying to make it happen.

[chrisfffan]

I know my grammar isn’t great but if u imagine I am talking to you instead of writing a post you will understand easy. I said that Goldenboco didn’t say about the similarities between the characters in 7and 8 I did because some people have said that the characters in 8 are weak and noboady ever says the characters in 7 are weak do they? understand, capish?

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

I'm physically deformed? Right. I hate when people spit out insults during a debate just to make themsleves seem stronger. Especially a debate over a video game! Try not to take things to heart so easily, huh?

Hey, you're the one who said you have pointed ears thus admitting to a physical deformity. Read your own writing pal.

[chrisfffan]

So you can't answer the request I made then? Also allow me to destroy No.s 1. and 2.

1. Squall has a Gun Blade not a sword.
2. This makes no sense. Just a pointless fact about Rinoa. Also the fact that she also has magic like Fire and Blizzard not just healing magic.


1. his gun blade is a gun and a sword!
2. what don’t you understand? Areis and Rinoa both fall in love with the main characters and their best limit breaks are both healing magic

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

So you can't answer the request I made then? Also allow me to destroy No.s 1. and 2.

1. Squall has a Gun Blade not a sword.
2. This makes no sense. Just a pointless fact about Rinoa. Also the fact that she also has magic like Fire and Blizzard not just healing magic.


1. his gun blade is a gun and a sword!
2. what don’t you understand? Areis and Rinoa both fall in love with the main characters and their best limit breaks are both healing magic

1. The majority of the FF games has a main character with a sword, not just VII and VIII!
2. It is the 1990's when this was made! Countless movies and games have had the same thing happen. It's a trend, calm down.

[chrisfffan]

haha sorry its just some people can be so annoying when they know you are making a point they turn it the other way!

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

It happens. They are all pretty much just trends though. The swords, the love, the healing magic. People are just into it so they play off of that which makes the sales and the game seem so much better.

[chrisfffan]

yea their isnt much difference between 7,8,9 and X you always save the planet and fall in love!

[Darth Anarcus]

I know Rinoa and Ulitmecia are the same person,

You know they are? Impossible. Don't make up such stupid comments. Or are you implying that you work for Square? I highly doubt that. Besides people have stated in countless interviews and the like that Rinoa is NOT and will never be Ultimecia. Stop trying to make it happen.
Wow, that's just... ugh! I've come to the conclusion that you are entirely irrational.

If you'll go back and read the context in which I issued that statement then you'll know exactly what I mean. I know Rinoa to be Ultimecia in my mind, for all of the reasons I stated.

Hey, you're the one who said you have pointed ears thus admitting to a physical deformity. Read your own writing pal.
Never heard of a joke before, eh? Alright, I'll keep it serious from here on out for your sake.

[Ryushikaze]

But nowhere in the game does it ever say that there can be only one sorceress existing at a time. In fact, the tutorial says that the number of sorceresses in the world is not known. And let's not forget that Edea, followed by Rinoa who inherits her powers, exist while Adel is yet alive.

And it's also never stated that the sorceresses you fight are the ones who exist between Rinoa and Ultimecia's lifetimes. Time is being compressed, so they could be from throughout the history of the world.

Or they could be in between you and Ultimecia, since, y'know, you're travelling forward through time, Ulti is controlling them, and her machine has a limit.
But you're not traveling through time. Time is compressing. It's all becoming one. Odine states this in the game.

You begin in your time. You wind up in Ultimecia's time. As time has not compressed yet, you were skipping forward through time to get to her time.




Actually, I choose to skip over and ignore anything that looks like that. So it's not that I don't understand it, it's that I don't read it.

I'm the smartest person I know.:D

You must not know anyone. Poor dear.
Entirely uncalled for. I think my proven 161 IQ speaks for itself.

Not really. You've merely made another braggart-y claim now. Prove you have a 161 IQ.




Ultimecia has no memory of her former life whatsoever, and therefore has no idea who Squall and Rinoa are.

In short, making her Rinoa in body only. Yes. Tons of depth. If you'll excuse me, I'm drowning in the sarcasm.
No, not really. I like to think (but, of course, can't prove anything on this) that she remembered everything when she appeared to Squall and Edea at the orphanage at the end, possibly falling through the same sort of time rifts that Squall was falling through, maybe having to do with her life. Again, it's just a theory.

No. It isn't. It isn't even a hypothesis. It's a wackaloon postulate which you have absolutely no empirical evidence to support.




Put two and two together. I provided the evidence that Rinoa may be Ultimecia (didn't say for sure, which is what forces us to use our brains). Ultimecia tries to kill Squall and Rinoa and seems not to know who they are. GFs make people forget things. Ultimecia uses at least one GF that we know about: Griever.

Logic, people. Logic. Am I the only one with pointed ears here?;)

Just because you're physically deformed, it neither makes you logical, nor a space elf. You are, to repeat a coining, sodomizing parsimony with a marital aid made from prison plumbing. The above is a HUGE non sequitor.
I'm physically deformed? Right. I hate when people spit out insults during a debate just to make themsleves seem stronger. Especially a debate over a video game! Try not to take things to heart so easily, huh?

For someone trying to make a joke, you don't take them particularly well yourself.




My take on the Griever thing is that when Squall was killed, Rinoa blocked his path to the afterlife and imprisoned it in the Griever ring--something had had sentimental value to him--where over time he was transformed into "the most powerful GF in Squall's mind." He had become what he had imagined the legendary Griever would have been like. Thus, the GF that he had become was the most powerful GF "in his mind," i.e. he transformed into what he had imagined all of his life. This gives Ultimecia's "juntioning unto Griever" so much more meaning.

And with THAT outrageous claim, you render your ability to prove it completely impossible. You fail, good day, enjoy your biscuit.
Again, it's a theory coupled with my theory of how all the Final Fantasy games are connected. The theories are connected.

And once again, quite with the insults. We're discussing a video game. There's no reason for such a discussion to become heated.

Leaving aside that non of my above is an insult, you are attempting to, in effect, rewrite the story of this game based on what amounts to your desire for the game to be deeper. You are doing so by trying to assert a patently outrageous claim- as well as the even more outrageous 'FF connection' claim- and as such, you suffer the burden of proof, and quite heavily as I might add. Since you cannot show any evidence, you fail by default. Enjoy that biscuit.




I said it already: Sorceress prison. You know, like the one they put Adel in? She didn't seem to need sustainence while in it and also appeared to be in suspended animation, so that's the most obvious theory.
Even assuming that it keeps her perfectly suspended (It doesn't), Rinoa still eventually ages and dies.
I'll play a you here: do you have any proof that it does not?

Do you have any proof that it DOES? If Adel had been perfectly suspended, her power wouldn't have been able to leak out and be broadcast over the RF frequencies in dollet, now would it?



As to the soul-suspending thing, I think of the relationship between a sorceress and her knight to be similar to that of a summoner and her guardian in FFX, in that special bonds--love being the most obvious--gives her more power over her knight. This ties into another theory I have that all Final Fantasies are related, but that's a whole 'nother ballpark. Evidence of a sorceress having some effect over her knight's will is the flashback to when the team defeated Edea and watched as Seifer helped the newly-possessed Rinoa to her feet. He seems to be in some sort of a trance, and [/size][/font] [font=&quot][font=Verdana][size=2]acknowledges the puppeteer being as "Sorceress Ultimecia."

You DO realize she was actually using Mind Control on the boy, si?
Oh, and prove your claim that Sorcerer/Knight grants them powers. Though where are you getting the "guardian powers" thing from?
Part of this comes from my belief that Squall died at the end, and that Rinoa revived him. This is an entirely different theory, and I'll be happy to post it if need be.

Support with evidence or concede the issue. Non of this question dodging.




I think GFs are exactly this: sorceresses' knights whose souls were bound to something to alter them into demons. This is based on the Doomtrain ring and the Diablos lamp, and putting this idea in motion is what makes me think that Squall was bound to the Griever ring from whence he emerged years later as Griever.In short- No. In long- Prove it.
I cannot, of course. But can you prove that this is not the case? Once again, it's linked with my FF-connection theory.

I don't have to prove it's not the case. You have to prove it is.




Yes! Exaclty my point! I--and many others--see things like this as there being more than what is apparent.No, you're trying to make up what simply is not there.
What I'm making up is the how. Playing the game, this theme was blatantly obvious to me, whether it was intentional or not. It adds meaning to both the characters of Ultimecia and Rinoa, as well as Squall's promise. It makes one wonder how far he'll go with it.

It is 'blatantly obvious' that the sun goes 'round the earth. It is also incredibly false.


Even if Rinoa is not Ultimecia, Ultimecia represents what Rinoa has the potential to become. If not the Ultimecia, given the past of how sorceresses seem to be prone to misbehavior, the deffinitely has the potential to become an Ultimecia.

No, she has the potential to become a misbehaving sorceress.




Well, I've hardly tried. I've always been convinced of it and seeing this theme throughout the game--intentional or not--was always there. It's the explaination part as to how it all went down where trying come into play.
When an explanation requires far more rings than the entire corps of lanterns, it has issues, to say the least.
I believe Rinoa is Ultimecia. The things I've listed are theories, not proofs. It's really impossible to prove; but, I also believe it's impossible to entirely disprove as well. If you like, fine, we can throw out everything I've said. What we're left with is a mystery. I know Rinoa and Ulitmecia are the same person, but the how is a mystery; and therein lies the appeal.

No. The things you have listed are CLAIMS. You don't have evidence one to support them. Your overarcing claim 'Rinoa and Ultimecia are the same person' is incredibly outrageous, meaning it is in parsimony's grand disfavor! And you really are giving it your damndest with that golden mean, aren't you? Guess what? The golden mean is a fallacy! If you cannot reasonably support your postulate, it has no validity! No one actually has to disprove it! The job is entirely upon YOU to back up your claims with empirical evidence.


And like I said, if she is not actually Ultimecia, then Ultimecia represents a possible path that Rinoa can take if she chooses. It is a story of morality. Would she see just what is possible with her sorceress powers and attempt the same thing? And if so, would Squall stand with her as he promised, or would "his sword peirce her heart," as she said. It represents tough choices for both of them as a couple, and this is why I say there is so much more depth to FF8 than meets the eye, because we never know what the future might bring, dispite this chapter's happy ending.

You sure are making a big deal out of what is basically a standard issue as far as sorceresses go. Cid and Edea dealt with it too. This isn't depth, it's both common knowledge and procedure.

[Odaisé Gaelach]

You sure are making a big deal out of what is basically a standard issue as far as sorceresses go. Cid and Edea dealt with it too. This isn't depth, it's both common knowledge and procedure.

It's also completely off topic. :)

[LunarWeaver]

Well, this made me curious what critics said about it, and after skipping off to Metacritic-

...Holy soggy jellybean, what the hell happened since the last time I was here o_O. Are we talking about R=U again :jess:.

-Well, metacritic, it averaged a 90/100. A 9.0 outta 10 sure isn't bad. I dunno if game critics determine if a game is under or overrated or not, but that's some sort of proof that it was nicely received in some way I guess.

[Takara]

It's the FFVIII forums, almost every thread derails into a R=U debate.

[Darth Anarcus]

Actually, I choose to skip over and ignore anything that looks like that. So it's not that I don't understand it, it's that I don't read it.

I'm the smartest person I know.:D

You must not know anyone. Poor dear.Entirely uncalled for. I think my proven 161 IQ speaks for itself.[/quote]Not really. You've merely made another braggart-y claim now. Prove you have a 161 IQ.[/quote]
"Prove this. Prove that." I see no need to prove this part to you. You need to calm down and stop taking this so heatedly.




My take on the Griever thing is that when Squall was killed, Rinoa blocked his path to the afterlife and imprisoned it in the Griever ring--something had had sentimental value to him--where over time he was transformed into "the most powerful GF in Squall's mind." He had become what he had imagined the legendary Griever would have been like. Thus, the GF that he had become was the most powerful GF "in his mind," i.e. he transformed into what he had imagined all of his life. This gives Ultimecia's "juntioning unto Griever" so much more meaning.

And with THAT outrageous claim, you render your ability to prove it completely impossible. You fail, good day, enjoy your biscuit.Again, it's a theory coupled with my theory of how all the Final Fantasy games are connected. The theories are connected.

And once again, quite with the insults. We're discussing a video game. There's no reason for such a discussion to become heated.Leaving aside that non[e] of my above is an insult, you are attempting to, in effect, rewrite the story of this game based on what amounts to your desire for the game to be deeper. You are doing so by trying to assert a patently outrageous claim- as well as the even more outrageous 'FF connection' claim- and as such, you suffer the burden of proof, and quite heavily as I might add. Since you cannot show any evidence, you fail by default. Enjoy that biscuit.[/quote]
Calm yourself. It's just a string of postulates based on a theme that I and many people saw in the game. Again, explaining the how is difficult and probably impossible, so all we are left with are postulates. Of course we can't prove these. You see, Final Fantasy in general is very open-ended, leaving plenty of room for us to use our imaginations to fill in the rest. That is exactly what I'm doing here.



I said it already: Sorceress prison. You know, like the one they put Adel in? She didn't seem to need sustainence while in it and also appeared to be in suspended animation, so that's the most obvious theory.Even assuming that it keeps her perfectly suspended (It doesn't), Rinoa still eventually ages and dies.I'll play a you here: do you have any proof that it does not?Do you have any proof that it DOES? If Adel had been perfectly suspended, her power wouldn't have been able to leak out and be broadcast over the RF frequencies in dollet, now would it?[/quote]
But how do we know that her powers leaking have any connection to her body being suspended, or not suspended? It seems to be implied that her mind still worked, so perhaps the activity of her powers were connected with that rather than her body.


As to the soul-suspending thing, I think of the relationship between a sorceress and her knight to be similar to that of a summoner and her guardian in FFX, in that special bonds--love being the most obvious--gives her more power over her knight. This ties into another theory I have that all Final Fantasies are related, but that's a whole 'nother ballpark. Evidence of a sorceress having some effect over her knight's will is the flashback to when the team defeated Edea and watched as Seifer helped the newly-possessed Rinoa to her feet. He seems to be in some sort of a trance, and [/size][/font] [font=&quot][font=Verdana][size=2]acknowledges the puppeteer being as "Sorceress Ultimecia."
You DO realize she was actually using Mind Control on the boy, si?
Oh, and prove your claim that Sorcerer/Knight grants them powers. Though where are you getting the "guardian powers" thing from?Part of this comes from my belief that Squall died at the end, and that Rinoa revived him. This is an entirely different theory, and I'll be happy to post it if need be.Support with evidence or concede the issue. Non[e] of this question dodging.[/quote]
I'm not dodging the question. I never said anything about "guardian powers." Not once. Never said the knight is granted any power, but that the sorceress has power of the knight. Big difference.


I think GFs are exactly this: sorceresses' knights whose souls were bound to something to alter them into demons. This is based on the Doomtrain ring and the Diablos lamp, and putting this idea in motion is what makes me think that Squall was bound to the Griever ring from whence he emerged years later as Griever.In short- No. In long- Prove it.I cannot, of course. But can you prove that this is not the case? Once again, it's linked with my FF-connection theory.[/quote]I don't have to prove it's not the case. You have to prove it is.[/quote]
Again, it's just an idea. I have openly admitted time and time again that I cannot prove these things, so why are we still going on about this?



Yes! Exaclty my point! I--and many others--see things like this as there being more than what is apparent.No, you're trying to make up what simply is not there.What I'm making up is the how. Playing the game, this theme was blatantly obvious to me, whether it was intentional or not. It adds meaning to both the characters of Ultimecia and Rinoa, as well as Squall's promise. It makes one wonder how far he'll go with it.It is 'blatantly obvious' that the sun goes 'round the earth. It is also incredibly false.[/quote]
Yes, until it was proven otherwise. Rinoa being Ultimecia obviously cannot be proven, but from what I have seen it cannot be entirely disproven, either. Yes, there are problems with it, but it leaves it in mystery. And there is where imagination comes into play.

RPGs are created for us to use our brains.;)


Even if Rinoa is not Ultimecia, Ultimecia represents what Rinoa has the potential to become. If not the Ultimecia, given the past of how sorceresses seem to be prone to misbehavior, the deffinitely has the potential to become an Ultimecia.No, she has the potential to become a misbehaving sorceress.
*smacks face* That's what I meant! When people explain philosophical things, their wording is not always literal, you know. Rinoa has the potential to become everything that Ultimecia is, and that is why I chose to use the term "an Ultimecia."





Well, I've hardly tried. I've always been convinced of it and seeing this theme throughout the game--intentional or not--was always there. It's the explaination part as to how it all went down where trying come into play.When an explanation requires far more rings than the entire corps of lanterns, it has issues, to say the least.I believe Rinoa is Ultimecia. The things I've listed are theories, not proofs. It's really impossible to prove; but, I also believe it's impossible to entirely disprove as well. If you like, fine, we can throw out everything I've said. What we're left with is a mystery. I know Rinoa and Ulitmecia are the same person, but the how is a mystery; and therein lies the appeal.No. The things you have listed are CLAIMS. You don't have evidence one to support them. Your overarcing claim 'Rinoa and Ultimecia are the same person' is incredibly outrageous, meaning it is in parsimony's grand disfavor! And you really are giving it your damndest with that golden mean, aren't you? Guess what? The golden mean is a fallacy! If you cannot reasonably support your postulate, it has no validity! No one actually has to disprove it! The job is entirely upon YOU to back up your claims with empirical evidence.
Calm down, dude. Seriously! This is a video game discussion! It's not like I'm claiming that your mother had an affair with your uncle or anything.

What I'm trying to say is that this whole things can be ripped to shreds, but it cannot be 100% disproven. I am also encouraging you to use your imaginations! It's a wonderful thing.



[quote]And like I said, if she is not actually Ultimecia, then Ultimecia represents a possible path that Rinoa can take if she chooses. It is a story of morality. Would she see just what is possible with her sorceress powers and attempt the same thing? And if so, would Squall stand with her as he promised, or would "his sword peirce her heart," as she said. It represents tough choices for both of them as a couple, and this is why I say there is so much more depth to FF8 than meets the eye, because we never know what the future might bring, dispite this chapter's happy ending.You sure are making a big deal out of what is basically a standard issue as far as sorceresses go. Cid and Edea dealt with it too. This isn't depth, it's both common knowledge and procedure.
What I'm making a big deal of is the challenge to use your imagination.;)



EDIT: How in the hell did my quotes get messed up? I can't seem to be able to fix them, either. Bah! I think you'll understand where the quotes begin and end.

[Ryushikaze]

"Prove this. Prove that." I see no need to prove this part to you. You need to calm down and stop taking this so heatedly.

I'm not taking this heatedly. I am simply holding you to a standard- which I hold everyone to- you are not as of yet reaching.


Calm yourself. It's just a string of postulates based on a theme that I and many people saw in the game. Again, explaining the how is difficult and probably impossible, so all we are left with are postulates. Of course we can't prove these. You see, Final Fantasy in general is very open-ended, leaving plenty of room for us to use our imaginations to fill in the rest. That is exactly what I'm doing here.

So write a fanfic. Do not insist that there is something where there is not.


But how do we know that her powers leaking have any connection to her body being suspended, or not suspended? It seems to be implied that her mind still worked, so perhaps the activity of her powers were connected with that rather than her body.

The Mind is not a distinct entity from the body. The mind is in fact wholly dependent on the body. That she can even think shows that the prison is not actual stasis.


I'm not dodging the question. I never said anything about "guardian powers." Not once. Never said the knight is granted any power, but that the sorceress has power of the knight. Big difference.

I never said you said that. I said, quote "Sorcerer/Knight gives them powers" in reference to your claim that the sorceress had amazing special powers over her knight. Which you have again failed to substantiate. And actually, yes, you did say something about 'guardian powers', specificially "I think of the relationship between a sorceress and her knight to be similar to that of a summoner and her guardian in FFX, in that special bonds--love being the most obvious--gives her more power over her knight."- So, unless the mention of Summoner's guardians is a complete red herring, their inclusion implies a similar power structure.


Again, it's just an idea. I have openly admitted time and time again that I cannot prove these things, so why are we still going on about this?

Because you are trying to say that, as part of your "beneath the surface" story, it is part of FFVIII.


Yes, until it was proven otherwise. Rinoa being Ultimecia obviously cannot be proven, but from what I have seen it cannot be entirely disproven, either. Yes, there are problems with it, but it leaves it in mystery. And there is where imagination comes into play.

It doesn't have to be disproven if there isn't evidence one in favor of it being true.


RPGs are created for us to use our brains.;)

That's no excuse to claim validity for your fanfiction.


*smacks face* That's what I meant! When people explain philosophical things, their wording is not always literal, you know. Rinoa has the potential to become everything that Ultimecia is, and that is why I chose to use the term "an Ultimecia."

No, you chose the term because you're scrambling for a connection. It is not otherwise necessary. Rinoa also has the potential to become everything that Adel is, or any of the other mad sorceresses in the past. Ulti is hardly special in the 'gone mad' department.


Calm down, dude. Seriously! This is a video game discussion! It's not like I'm claiming that your mother had an affair with your uncle or anything.

No, but you ARE violating parsimony, Occam's razor, and the scientific method, and I take that nearly as seriously.


What I'm trying to say is that this whole things can be ripped to shreds, but it cannot be 100% disproven. I am also encouraging you to use your imaginations! It's a wonderful thing.

And I'M saying that the whole thing needs to be PROVEN before it counts. I'm also not saying to not use your imagination. I'm saying keep it in fanfiction where it belongs, instead of trying to rewrite the game.


What I'm making a big deal of is the challenge to use your imagination.;)

No, what you were making a big deal out of was the common worry of the Power of Hyne driving a sorceress mad and the duty of her knight to keep her from going mad or taking her down should she go mad. Your above about imagination is simply a red herring.

I shall say this again simply. I am not against using your imagination with regards to a story, but A: admit it is fanfiction and B: do not try and claim that your fanfiction makes the original story any deeper. It doesn't. It as a whole may be far deeper than the original, but it does not actually change the original story any more than that SquallX Bahamut Yaoi fic over there does.

[Strawberry_Mew]

I would say that it is underrated but FF8 always holds a special place in my heart it was my first final fantasy I gotta love my dad for buyin it for me the pc version <3

[chrisfffan]

I would say that it is underrated but FF8 always holds a special place in my heart it was my first final fantasy I gotta love my dad for buyin it for me the pc version <3

it was the first FF game I got too I wonder what version is the best PC or Playstation? Is the PC version better?

[Odaisé Gaelach]

it was the first FF game I got too I wonder what version is the best PC or Playstation? Is the PC version better?

I've never played the PC version, but from what I hear it can be a little buggy. So the Playstation version is the way to go. :)

[chrisfffan]

it was the first FF game I got too I wonder what version is the best PC or Playstation? Is the PC version better?

I've never played the PC version, but from what I hear it can be a little buggy. So the Playstation version is the way to go. :)

I don’t know how the PC versions could be better for any final fantasy games but I could be wrong!

[PuPu]

Hey Anarcus, I just want to know, what's your explanation for Rinoa getting Angel Wing after she was possessed by Ultimecia? This reason right here is one of the reasons I don't believe R=U, since Rinoa never got her sorceress powers until after she was possessed by Ultimecia.

[Odaisé Gaelach]

I don’t know how the PC versions could be better for any final fantasy games but I could be wrong!

Higher resolutions and better graphics, perhaps?

Playing Final Fantasy with a keyboard might not be much fun though...

Anyway, back on topic! Gamespot have a bunch of FFVIII reviews from many other websites. Bar one, the reviews are all completely positive.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps/rpg/finalfantasy8/review.html?mode=web

[chrisfffan]

I don’t know how the PC versions could be better for any final fantasy games but I could be wrong!

Higher resolutions and better graphics, perhaps?

Playing Final Fantasy with a keyboard might not be much fun though...

Anyway, back on topic! Gamespot have a bunch of FFVIII reviews from many other websites. Bar one, the reviews are all completely positive.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps/rpg/finalfantasy8/review.html?mode=web


I don’t think the reviews alone prove the game is underrated or not and it depends what people mean by underrated i think its underrated compared to 7 and X

[Goldenboko]

I don’t know how the PC versions could be better for any final fantasy games but I could be wrong!

Higher resolutions and better graphics, perhaps?

Playing Final Fantasy with a keyboard might not be much fun though...

Anyway, back on topic! Gamespot have a bunch of FFVIII reviews from many other websites. Bar one, the reviews are all completely positive.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps/rpg/finalfantasy8/review.html?mode=web


I don’t think the reviews alone prove the game is underrated or not and it depends what people mean by underrated i think its underrated compared to 7 and X
First off every FF game is underrated compared to FFVII, which is basically a known fact. Second off I'd say VIII has more fans the FFX dispite being far weaker storyline and gameplay wise.

[Disco Potato]

I done a forum a while ago saying this was the best final fantasy some people agreed but I think its one of the most underrated games ever! the graphics, story and the game play are very good but I think because 7 was so good people wanted a sequel to it not a totally different story who agrees?

I think as its own game it's not bad at all, but compared to other FFs it's definitely not as good. I'm not saying I think it's bad, but just that every other FF I've played is better :p

I don't think people necessarily wanted a sequel to FF7, but rather a game of FF7's quality (or the quality that they perceived FF7 to have).

[chrisfffan]

I done a forum a while ago saying this was the best final fantasy some people agreed but I think its one of the most underrated games ever! the graphics, story and the game play are very good but I think because 7 was so good people wanted a sequel to it not a totally different story who agrees?

I think as its own game it's not bad at all, but compared to other FFs it's definitely not as good. I'm not saying I think it's bad, but just that every other FF I've played is better :p

I don't think people necessarily wanted a sequel to FF7, but rather a game of FF7's quality (or the quality that they perceived FF7 to have).

Well everyone has their opinion of the best FF games and the worsted but I think FF7 and FF8 are on a par for different reasons.

The 3 great things about Final Fantasy 7
1. (The Bad Guys) in 8 their isn’t any really good bad guys in 7 theirs lots Sephiroth and the Shinra.
2. (The flower girls death) its not that I didn’t like her but her death made the story much more strong!
3. (The darkness) I think 7 is the darkness FF

The 3 great things about 8
1. (Squall) he’s up there with the best characters in the Final Fantasy series his gun blade is cool! but his character development is why I think he is, originally he’s a shy guy who doesn’t want to get to know anyone because he’s concentrating on becoming SeeD but when he comes out of his shell you see he’s not such a bad guy.

2. (The graphics) compared to 7 they are far better! In battle and everything else but you could say that about X now.

3. (The dream world) a lot of people were put off by the dream world with Laguna, Ward and Kiros but I think its one of the things that makes the game great! It gives the story another dimension.

[Lynx]

Best Final Fantasy game ever, and deffinitely underrated. I've noticed that really smart people who are deep thinkers tend to enjoy FF8. I guess we see something much deeper in it than is apparent on the surface.


no. what everyone sees in FFVIII is a strong love story . you dont have to be smart to see that. infact i think the really smart people will see past the love story and see how ultimecia had no reason for trying to control the world in the past and future or whatever she was trying to do. bottom line is it didnt make much sense. the ending didnt even make any sense. theres so much in the game that doesnt make sense. i mean serioursly i gotta tell you when i get pierced with sharp ice i dont wake up without a scratch. also if i remember correctly the last battle was fought with everyone and yet only squall went through the wierd hallucinations at the end. oh and lets not forget other parts of the game that didnt make sense. ellone and her magical powers that she has for no reason at all. and how useing her powers they can make a time machine umm no. also makeing monster levels increase as yours does defeats the purpose of leveling up.

and as for the R=U theory if anything i would think it should be ellone= rinoa. when sorcerors die they gove there powers to someone else who knows in the future someone might have given it to ellone i mean after all she had time powers and ultimecia could control people in the past makes the most sense to me.

the characters are some of the most boreing characters ive seen too. squall = emo, zell acts like hes 7 years old. rinoa is just a plain old girl minus a personality. selphie hyper idiot, quistis again someone without a personality. irvine probably the onyl half cool character too bad hes a pervy kinda guy or else hed be much better.

now despite all this i didnt hate this game. i enjoyed it but its more towards the bottom of my list but in no way is it the bottom game. infact i think the gunblade is one of the coolest weapons in final fantasy. and the ragnarok airship is pretty cool. if any game is the most underrated final fantasy is final fantasy IX most people dont like it cause zidane is kinda wierd looking, short big hair kinda characatured (if thats how you spell it) has a tail. but the story is awesome and makes a lot more sense then FFVIII. sorry FFVIII is overrated.


on point of the topic i dont think this game is underrated its probably the 2nd most popular final fantasy.

[Ryushikaze]

i mean serioursly i gotta tell you when i get pierced with sharp ice i dont wake up without a scratch.

Yes, but you don't live in a world with access to magical healing.


ellone and her magical powers that she has for no reason at all. and how useing her powers they can make a time machine umm no.

While I agree they should have tried to give a reason for her powers, that they could replicate the effect after intensive study actually isn't actually all that out there. In Ellone they have a 'proof of concept', and a handy example that they can reverse engineer- well, reverse engineer based on her CAT scans and other data- even if it takes ages and ages to make the mechanism worthwhile. What's kind of out there was the speed at which Odine was able to go from first observation to working model, even if the model was little more than a toy.

Otherwise, I largely agree.

[chrisfffan]

Best Final Fantasy game ever, and deffinitely underrated. I've noticed that really smart people who are deep thinkers tend to enjoy FF8. I guess we see something much deeper in it than is apparent on the surface.


no. what everyone sees in FFVIII is a strong love story . you dont have to be smart to see that. infact i think the really smart people will see past the love story and see how ultimecia had no reason for trying to control the world in the past and future or whatever she was trying to do. bottom line is it didnt make much sense. the ending didnt even make any sense. theres so much in the game that doesnt make sense. i mean serioursly i gotta tell you when i get pierced with sharp ice i dont wake up without a scratch. also if i remember correctly the last battle was fought with everyone and yet only squall went through the wierd hallucinations at the end. oh and lets not forget other parts of the game that didnt make sense. ellone and her magical powers that she has for no reason at all. and how useing her powers they can make a time machine umm no. also makeing monster levels increase as yours does defeats the purpose of leveling up.

and as for the R=U theory if anything i would think it should be ellone= rinoa. when sorcerors die they gove there powers to someone else who knows in the future someone might have given it to ellone i mean after all she had time powers and ultimecia could control people in the past makes the most sense to me.

the characters are some of the most boreing characters ive seen too. squall = emo, zell acts like hes 7 years old. rinoa is just a plain old girl minus a personality. selphie hyper idiot, quistis again someone without a personality. irvine probably the onyl half cool character too bad hes a pervy kinda guy or else hed be much better.

now despite all this i didnt hate this game. i enjoyed it but its more towards the bottom of my list but in no way is it the bottom game. infact i think the gunblade is one of the coolest weapons in final fantasy. and the ragnarok airship is pretty cool. if any game is the most underrated final fantasy is final fantasy IX most people dont like it cause zidane is kinda wierd looking, short big hair kinda characatured (if thats how you spell it) has a tail. but the story is awesome and makes a lot more sense then FFVIII. sorry FFVIII is overrated.


on point of the topic i dont think this game is underrated its probably the 2nd most popular final fantasy.

I like IX but I found the story and the characters very old school with queens, knights and a princess in 7 and 8 I know its a fantasy but I found them more believable.

[f f freak]

I like IX but I found the story and the characters very old school with queens, knights and a princess

It was meant to be like that. FFIX was like that back to basics FF.

[chrisfffan]

I didn’t like it at first but i really got into it when i got on the second disc i think its a good game dont get me wrong! but i dont think its as good as 7 or 8.

[Lynx]

i thought IX was much better then VIII and a little bit better then VII. IX was back to the originals and it worked really well. the story and the characters were awesome. also zidane wasnt the silent strong type. he was a quick thinker and acted like a 16 year old with a tail should haha.

VII had a great story and probably the best villan in all of final fantasy.

as for VIII i thought the story was all in all good up until you find out about ultimecia. also i dindt like how they all knew eachother back when they were kids but not when they were older cause of gf's. the whole gf's slowly wear away at a persons memory (or whatever) seemed kinda i dont know stupid. a story should be planned and written. FFVIII seemed like they were jsut throwing things together. starting off normal 6 people meet and befriend eachother, then hey what if they met when they were idk 6 or 7 too, but wait why dont they know eachother, i got it we'll blame it on the gf's. but ill say for the most part the story was good.

[chrisfffan]

I think 7 had the best story 8 story was good but it didn’t have the same umph if u know what i mean? i think they should of had Edea as the bad guy all the way through it would of made the story stronger i think the first disc is defiantly the best first disc i have ever played though.

[Darth Anarcus]

and as for the R=U theory if anything i would think it should be ellone= rinoa.
Er, I think you mean Ultimecia, not Rinoa.;)

[Lynx]

ellone=ultimecia my bad haha

[chrisfffan]

ellone was a good character

lots of people have been saying about a remake of ff7 i was wondering who thinks their should be a remake of 8

Edit by Psychotic: chrisfffan, please do not double post. Use the edit/delete button if you want to add something else. Thanks.

[Darth Anarcus]

Me! That game could definitely use a tune-up.

[Ashley Schovitz]

I'm tired of these threrads all the ff games are underrated except for VII and XII which seem to be the most popular nowadays and VII probably will always be. I like VIII everythign with the story was good, it had many unexpected turn of events like the orphanage for example Irvine was the only who remembered fyi Linx and it was probably thought of since the begginning to add more drama.

[Goldenboko]

lots of people have been saying about a remake of ff7 i was wondering who thinks their should be a remake of 8

No, first off this game is still too easy to find. If you look places that have a decent amount of used games you can easily find a copy of FFVIII, and if you type Final Fantasy VIII on ebay, you get a ridiculous amount of matches. Games should be remade when they become hard to find, and overly expensive with the people who own them and have them for sale. For example try and buy FFIII for the NES(Or whatever system it originally came out on).

Second, unlike other games in the series the game is not riddled with errors, and has some of the best graphics in the series. Therefore the only real thing they could do to "tune up" the game would be to change the Level up system so its harder to be uber, change the battle system, and fix up the storyline.

[NeoCracker]

Second, unlike other games in the series the game is not riddled with errors
Except, you know, the game itself.

[Moon Rabbits]

I've noticed that really smart people who are deep thinkers tend to enjoy FF8. I guess we see something much deeper in it than is apparent on the surface.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Whew...:p
Sorry, but it's true. I've noticed it.

Wait...then why is it that I love FFVIII? :(

[Clord]

My IQ is more than 135 and I think that Rinoa got more things to do with Ultimecia than those who just play story but not think about it so much to realise because they just hop to bashing bandwagon against theorys.

Also FF VIII is not underrated.
http://www.fanfiction.net/l/526/3/0/1/1/0/0/0/0/0/1/

[Ryushikaze]

My IQ is more than 135 and I think that Rinoa got more things to do with Ultimecia than those who just play story but not think about it so much to realise because they just hop to bashing bandwagon against theorys.

Now isn't that an appeal to motive. If you think Rinoa and Ulti have some deep connection, prove it.

[chrisfffan]

My IQ is more than 135 and I think that Rinoa got more things to do with Ultimecia than those who just play story but not think about it so much to realise because they just hop to bashing bandwagon against theorys.

Now isn't that an appeal to motive. If you think Rinoa and Ulti have some deep connection, prove it.

who cares about all that? i think they should remake 7 8 and 9 the series on the ps1 to bring everything up to date.

[sexymonkey]

i dont think viii is underated, i played it after vii expecting new storyline, graphics, and gameplay, but still i didn't like it as vii. i dont think its because its i wanted more of the same. but viii is definatly at the bottom for me!

however, jumbo catuar was amazing!! if only they would bring him back!!

[Takara]

My IQ is over 135 and even if I look really deep into the game's plot, I still can't see anything that proves Rinoa and Ultimecia are the same person.

Not to mention that the information found in the Ultimania, which is an official publication, totally shot that theory down the toilet.

[chrisfffan]

My IQ is over 135 and even if I look really deep into the game's plot, I still can't see anything that proves Rinoa and Ultimecia are the same person.

Not to mention that the information found in the Ultimania, which is an official publication, totally shot that theory down the toilet.

how do people even come to that idea?

[Goldenboko]

My IQ is over 135 and even if I look really deep into the game's plot, I still can't see anything that proves Rinoa and Ultimecia are the same person.

Not to mention that the information found in the Ultimania, which is an official publication, totally shot that theory down the toilet.

how do people even come to that idea?

Its quite simple, people want to have their favorite game be perfect in everyway. FFVIII is many people's favorite game, therefore when others say the villian was lame and had no backstory, the fans mind creates false evidence for some wacky theory because, as their favorite game, FFVIII must be perfect.

[chrisfffan]

My IQ is over 135 and even if I look really deep into the game's plot, I still can't see anything that proves Rinoa and Ultimecia are the same person.

Not to mention that the information found in the Ultimania, which is an official publication, totally shot that theory down the toilet.

how do people even come to that idea?

Its quite simple, people want to have their favorite game be perfect in everyway. FFVIII is many people's favorite game, therefore when others say the villian was lame and had no backstory, the fans mind creates false evidence for some wacky theory because, as their favorite game, FFVIII must be perfect.


I agree that the main bad guy wasn’t good enough it should have been Edea all the way through it would of been much better its not a perfect game i dont think any game is perfect.

[Takara]

i dont think any game is perfect.

Nope. No game is perfect. I can point imperfections even in my favourite games.

[The Crystal]

I agree that the main bad guy wasn’t good enough it should have been Edea all the way through it would of been much better its not a perfect game i dont think any game is perfect.

Edea was never a villain, and Ultimecia was presented during almost all the game(inside her body). She is a good villain.

[Lynx]

why is there so much talk about peoples IQ you dont have to be very smart to understand this game. its pretty easy to understand. no matter how deep you look it doesnt change the fact that this game was just thrown together randomly.

[Takara]

Some poster whose name I forgot said something along the lines of "I have a high IQ and I can see the connection that proves R=U therefore everybody that thinks otherwise doesn't understand the game because they are stupider than me". I just wanted to prove him wrong because I'm mean like that.

And no, you don't need to be smart to understand the game's plot, or see the many plotholes in it.

[chrisfffan]

Some poster whose name I forgot said something along the lines of "I have a high IQ and I can see the connection that proves R=U therefore everybody that thinks otherwise doesn't understand the game because they are stupider than me". I just wanted to prove him wrong because I'm mean like that.

And no, you don't need to be smart to understand the game's plot, or see the many plotholes in it.

epically a final fantasy game its always the same really you save the world and you usually get the girl! its work so far why change it?