Battle System

[spunkytofu]

Discuss the new battle system from FFXII. What do you like about it? What don't you like about it?

Personally, I think its great. I laughed when I read all the complaints before it even came out (only the demo that came with DQVIII was out at the time). Everybody thought that it wasn't really a Final Fantasy game without the loading screen and the old battle system.

Its so much better now, you don't have to loose time waiting for a battle to load (which helps when you're trying to remember where you are in a dungeon and find your way around), you can see monsters rather than just wandering around on empty maps (which also means you can avoid fights before they happen), and I love the gambits. If you set your gambits right, you can just walk away from the TV while your characters fight for you. I did that with a boss battle; I just left and made myself a sandwich. When I came back, they had won the battle for me and healed each other back up.

[Renmiri]

Yeah but now new fiends can enter the battle and pwn your tired, potion/ MP depleted party :(

I like it though. And gambits rule!! :D:D:D

[ValiantKnight]

mixed feelings, gambits are both good and bad.. without them this would be a much longer game, but they do kinda make it easier.

My only complaint off the top of my head is the lack of damage readout... I've threw some quickening chains around and couldn't see how much they did because of the camera angle/oversize monster. With normal hits this usually seems to be avoided somehow, but sometimes even then its hard to read the damage your doing on larger monsters.

I will disagree with the faster pace of the game if thats what you meant, because im just now heading to the Phon Coast and I'm already at 35hrs, but that could be because I did all the marks and leave the game on a little more than most FFs.

[vorpal blade]

I agree you all. While the terrain did very little for strategy, it did make the game seem more real, more fast-paced and more fun than just hoping not to run into a monster and then manually entering the same commands over and over again. Gambits removed a lot of the tedium (I rarely have to use status-curing items manually), but I wish you could change (or at least turn off) your guest's gambits to keep them from attacking a monster that's way too strong just because it's there (Vossler! You won't be forgiven!).

My main complaints are that some enemies just don't give up the chase(especially the Imperial Soldiers) which makes it hard to heal your party sometimes, and some monsters will join the party (nearly got wiped out by a bunch of bagolys in the Nam-Yensa Sandsea because of this), but you have to take the bitter with the sweet, as they say.

[Renmiri]

I wish you could change (or at least turn off) your guest's gambits to keep them from attacking a monster that's way too strong just because it's there (Vossler! You won't be forgiven!).

QFT

Hihi!!! You will get your revenge on him

I also hate how Vossler and "Lamont" spoiled some pretty sweet chains I had going :mad: :mad: :mad:

[ValiantKnight]

Bagoly types are the worst... they seem to come from well over 2x your targetting range to attack you, and if you attack a bagoly, all the bagolys in the entire active "zone" your in will come help it it seems.

[vorpal blade]

You will get your revenge on him[/SPOILER]

I also hate how Vossler and "Lamont" spoiled some pretty sweet chains I had going :mad: :mad: :mad:

Yeah, I know. Not as satisfying as I thought though.

They're good help but they don't follow directions. That monster he attacked was way too strong for me and waited for me to return! I had ro run all the way back to Rabanastre.

[ValiantKnight]

Vossler and Lamont were pains at sometimes but it seemed to me like Lamont had his own supply of hi potions, and it didn't drain from yours.... that was helpful at times.

Vossler was nice with knocking small enemies back about 8 feet, flipping them over, and then they die landing on their head.... most notably the little fruits in the desert.... Always made me laugh...
Balthier and Basch can do this to some extent with swords and hammers.. but not like Vossler it seems.

[Peter_20]

No random encounters + visible enemies = instant win.

Sad that it took Square so long to realize, though.

[DarkHeat787]

Like Vorpal said, the terrain didn't help any, but made it seem more real. I remember when one monster actually hit Balthier through an obstacle. =P

It's fun though. Problem is, you pretty much can't engage with something around your level without taking some damage.

And area effect spells clear Bagoly out nicely. I can deal ~1700 to all of the Mesmenirs in a group in Ozmone with Blizzara, and I also have fun Thundara'ing the Wu to death. =P

[Renmiri]

Bagoly types are the worst... they seem to come from well over 2x your targetting range to attack you, and if you attack a bagoly, all the bagolys in the entire active "zone" your in will come help it it seems.

Bagolys drop the only $1,200 gil loot you can get this early in the game: Bent Staff. If you have all your grimoires till Lhusu you get at least 3 or 4 per round at that area of Nam Yensa where they flock (Simoon's Bluff)

[DarkHeat787]

Once you get to Ozmone, Wu are fun to chain. They drop Kogarasumaru (sometimes in bundles of 2 :O) rhat sell at about 2600 each, I believe.

[Frozen Phantom]

sorry to crush your dreams...but the FFXII battle system is just like the battle systems of the other FFs, The only difference is the lack of loading between battles and the gambit system, which is really just for wimps who are too lazy to give all the commands themselves.

[Gabranth]

i guess im a wimp then

[Renmiri]

Wimp here too.

[Wolf Kanno]

Wimp my ass...

Unless you're playing on Wait mode or are just a masochist, I cannot see people trying to go without the Gambits. Besides the gambits allow you to build strategies so they are more than just sorry A.I.

As for obnoxious guest characters... My vote is for Reddas. For a renowned pirate who dual weilds swords, he's pretty lousy. He cannot take a hit nor can he really dish it out.

[farplaner]

I don't see why the guest characters don't level up as any other fighter does...

The gambits are essential, of course (considering the system), but there are some things about them that get very annoying...

basically the AI are still stupid- gambits just allow them to be slightly less stupid. When a game allows you to set up auto. actions that completely conform to what you would otherwise do manually, then will we know success. As it is, I still have characters running off in random directions, getting on each of my nerves.

Of course, these "stupidities" can be regulated, but it takes a fair amount of micro-management, which undermines the point of the system.

On the other hand, there is no more for me to bitch about with this game then there is with any other... :tongue:

[vorpal blade]

Wimp? No, gambits are for those too good to waste their time on such menial tasks.
Yeah, the fact that guests have an unlimited supply of items is cool.

I got to say though, gambits would have been a great help in the KH games (stop casting aero, Donald, the battle's over!). While you can customize to a certain extent the actions of your party, the more specific gambits would have been better.

[Frozen Phantom]

gambits aren't essencial...they really aren't...you've just gotten soo used to them that you become lazy and let the AI fight for you. I have to admit, the only major gambit I use is heal...thats it, no complex stragety, just heal. The only reason gambits would be useful in KH would be because you can't control donald and goofy plus the fact that you would be too busy in a boss battle to switch to them anyway.

[Renmiri]

gambits aren't essencial...they really aren't...you've just gotten soo used to them that you become lazy and let the AI fight for you.

I bet you refuse to use elevators and take stairs for the same reason... :rolleyes2

If all humanity was like you we would have never invented the wheel, or someone would but you guys would convince us all to forgo that "Artificial aid for the lazy".

j/k

Purists like you are so cute! :D

[DarkHeat787]

^xDD

Gambits ftw. I'm not lazy, I just prefer not to get my ass kicked by Pyrolisks while selecting Blizzara about seven times.

:O

Plus, they help alot in boss battles. What if it was on Active and you were selecting Raise, wasting time going through the menus while Mateus starts Blizzaja, then you lose?

*is done with "rant"*

[Frozen Phantom]

gambits aren't essencial...they really aren't...you've just gotten soo used to them that you become lazy and let the AI fight for you.

I bet you refuse to use elevators and take stairs for the same reason... :rolleyes2

If all humanity was like you we would have never invented the wheel, or someone would but you guys would convince us all to forgo that "Artificial aid for the lazy".

j/k

Purists like you are so cute! :D

*Pulls out katanas and brutally slices Renmiri*

HOW DARE YOU CALL ME A PURIST!!!!!!! ITS A VIDEO GAME, IF WE HAVE TO REACH THE LEVEL THAT VIDEO GAMES ARE PLAYED FOR US...WHERES THE FUN?!? WHERES THE SATISFACTION?!?

I'm no purist, I love technology. But it will be a cold day in hell when I let my video games play themselves.

*Jerks katanas out of Renmiri's corpse*

[Renmiri]

:eek: Is that me sliced in two ? :eek:

Casts "Arise"

Awww... To each his own gaming style :D

[rubah]

It's confusing when everyone is all in each other's ways and you can't see what's happening:(

[LunarWeaver]

I like the battle system. I don't really prefer it over or under the traditional "stand in a line" type of turn-based system. They both have good points to them and I enjoy either approach.

I never really felt this game was too automated either. It is in a lot ways, but I was never bored or anything. If it was "automated", the characters would do whatever they wanted with AI programmed into them by the developers. But since I was the one telling them what to automatically do and when, it all felt manual enough to me.

Anywho, I like it. :jess:

[Roto13]

I like that I don't have to press any buttons.

[Frozen Phantom]

:eek: Is that me sliced in two ? :eek:

Casts "Arise"

Awww... To each his own gaming style :D

I cast mana burn (yeah wc3 attack)

drains all of Renmiri's MP

I pull out katanas and do 99 combo

Renmiri dies

[DarkHeat787]

i cazt scath and u die 999999lawl

:bigsmile:

Another thing about the battle system is that -most- fights are fair; you always take some damage when it comes to fighting something around your level (I've actually had a character die sometimes fighting those red wolves and Silver Lobos :O).

[Wolf Kanno]

I never felt it was really automated. Of anything, the gambits are there to break down micro-management of your party (status afflictions and buffing). But I enjoyed building complex strategies to take out bosses and marks.

I actually looked forward to being killed cause I could learn from the situation and build even nastier strategies that wipe the floor with the creatures. If you don't really use the gambits then I feel you're are losing out on half of the games system. But to each there own.

[Rogue]

i like gambits there fun to mess around with i dont like the wait till your attack gets done charging thing.....but overall i love it its fun

[Diango12]

Oh my god everyones been playing on active mode I knew I was missing out on something!

Gambits could have been better like say for example they could have been there from the start by default rather then part of the games role play system (If there ever was role play in this game) and I don't understand what you could possibly mean by "strategy's" WHAT STRATEGY this game hasn't even the slightest concept of strategy.

When a goddamn malbro can go up the stairs when my Vaan and basch are right there ready and blocking his path can just bumb RIGHT THROUGH THEM and straight at my helpless and no less shocked spellcaster fran then there is no concept of strategy

When monsters can just attack your party member RIGHT THROUGH WALLS OR OBSTACLES then there is no concept of strategy

When there is no visible use for things like shear and expose or charm or sap ( because sap would take about 20 minutes to "Sap" a monsters hp to be an effective spell mean its USELESS ) or poison or immobilize or infuse or vanish or petrify or doom or just about every other kick ass technique that I knew of in other series then there is no concept of "Strategy" in this game

When you have a measly three party team fighting one or two monsters at a time which who would ever need strategy for that must not no the concept of attack wait five seconds the battle is over means THERE IS NO STRATEGY in this game.

Now that I vented my anger out id like to turn my attention back to gambits WHAT THE HELL DO YOU MEAN USEFULL. :mad2:

Yeah its great for setting it on heal and curing ailments and the like but for actual character control have you lost it~@! who knows maybe it is great but when my fran is constantly casting stop on the shield dragon over and over and over again even though it CLEARLY sais Immune fran I don't if you got the memo but he is immune to your pathetic hand waving "no no I could do it" NO YOU CANT! Just stop and cast your next gambit 10,000+ hp Graviga 'is still casting' god damn it STOP "......" -party-vaan-attack-own party-fran X_X :choc2:

thats my problem sorry you had to see that.

[Renmiri]

Well, THAT is when strategy comes into play: If the monster is immune to "stop" you need to give Fran a different gambit :D

I have my 12 gambits like thus:
1-4 cure ailments with items (or revive and first aid on one in my party)
5-8 use magic (bubble, drain, gravity, etc..)
9-12 use techniques (for when you are down to 0 MP) like 1,000 needles, Addle, etc...

I change the magic gambits often because you can't use drain with undead and gravity, stop, et.. there is always a monster that is immune to it. The rest stays fairly constant, unless I'm running low on potions or phoenix down, then I go with revive and raise

[Diango12]

I have my gambits the same way except I have undead= cast stop on top of 30% less hp cast drain so that she would cast stop on undead before casting drain but none the less I dont see how changing a simple program control can be considered stratgey :moomba:

[Renmiri]

That is what football player and coaches call it ;)

The gambits on FFXII are inspired on football (USA football) gambits.

Oooo... Stop works well on undead ? I've been sticking to 1,000 needles but the skeletons near Gilgamesh pwn me regardless :(

[Diango12]

Stop always works on undead! No matter what I have yet to miss

[Wolf Kanno]

With certain bosses and marks, it's more affective to build strategy around characters. This where Decoy and Reverse come in handy. Also setting multiple conditions on a spell or ability allows you to use them more effeciently. As for the techniques, they are more useful in boss fights or mark hunts. Battles that are generally long to begin with.

As for the Fran thing... I'm sorry to say, but it just proves that the effectiveness of the gambits rely solely on the player.

The gambits allow you to adapt to a situation on the spot. You can change the gambits or deactivate the useless ones whenever you feel like it in battle.

As for the monsters being cheap... This goes back to the fact that the ADB system is NOT real-time free roaming Zelda action. It's just the ATB system with the 3rd dimension finally being put into account. It's not perfect but come on, it still adds a new level of dynamic to it.

Besides, it's not like the battle menu was designed to be user friendly. You would give the monster several free hits or even get a character killed just sorting through the menu to find the right spell ot item. It just adds to your frustration.

[Frozen Phantom]

Besides, it's not like the battle menu was designed to be user friendly. You would give the monster several free hits or even get a character killed just sorting through the menu to find the right spell ot item. It just adds to your frustration.

Actually, thats when you start throwing away spells that you no longer need, like after getting fira, blizzara, and thundra. I would throw away fire, blizzard, and thunder.

And...theres always wait mode.