Attempted English Lyrics for Latin song

[Vivisteiner]

For the Latin song in FFvXIII, I and someone else tried to translate the song. We eventually finished it, and my partner made a video of the translation. (It was on a different forum under another name.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v30L25mGkDs

What do you think?

[Jessweeee♪]

Nice :spin:

[Vivisteiner]

lol. You have no idea how long that translation took.

[Dr Aum]

Ew, Ecclesiastical pronunciations. ><

Do you have the Latin written down anywhere? I'd love to see it. From what I could understand through the sound effects and such, your translation was quite good, as well.

[Moon Rabbits]

Do you have the Latin written down anywhere? I'd love to see it.

[Disco Potato]

Great job :D

[Vivisteiner]

English Lyrics
A kingdom sleeps and children make groans that are never diminshed. Nor can they hope. A man is divided, he faces tragedy and is sent away.

And to travel at night from destruction, is his other burden. To bear every fear is his punishment which he must endure throughout time, and from it ascend.

Latin
tellus dormint et liberi ingem faciunt numquam extiint. Nec spertishi possit. Homme vir dividit tragoedia coram amandamque.

Et nocte pervehe tua e hem vers dens alii onem. Pavor omnivere pona manes tempus et per e escendi.


I tried to make sense in the Latin I could hear. Im sure its not perfect but I hope its reasonably accurate.

[Dr Aum]

Let me offer an alternative reading. :)

Tellus dormit et liberi ingemfaciunt* non quam exit, nec spertisci** possit. Omnia dividit tragedia coram*** amandamque.

The earth sleeps and children make a groaning that does not depart, nor is it able to hope. It divides all tragedies and her loving personally.


*ingemfacere is a constructed word that seems to undergo some sort of retroactive tmesis in order to create a word for quam to modify. Probably a poetic device.

**some sort of inchoative form of spero, it seems, but I'm not familiar with it. Definitely the infinitive of a deponent verb, though, so I'd wager that it's from spertiscor or, if not inchoative, spertingo, neither of which I've ever heard of.

*** coram is an adverb, meaning personally or perhaps heart-to-heart. I have a hunch, though, that the writer thought that the accusative of cor, cordis would be coram, meaning that this agrees with amandam, and so the intended meaning is probably “and loving heart.”






I can't really understand much of the second verse over the gunfire. Sorry. :(

[Vivisteiner]

Your first two sentences are similar to mine. which is good :) . To me though, there seems to be a break between ingem and faciunt.

Spertishi: I had no idea of the ending. I just used it in a way I thought made sense.

possit: you right! its not possi. It still has the same meaning though. Ill edit the Latin now.

extit: I had extiint, which means diminish.

For the last part. Can 'amandamque' mean love. I derived it from 'amando' which means 'I send away'. Coram can also mean 'faces'.

The second verse was the hardest part. Especially the first sentence of it. Thanks for the attempted translation anyway.

[Dr Aum]

There does seem to be a break between ingem and faciunt, but since ingem isn't an appropriate accusative form, it has to be a compound verb, like tepefacere.

Amandam (the -que is an enclitic "and") is actually the accusative form of the gerund formed from amare. By your translation it would amandaturque. Also, coram isn't a verb; it's an adverb (or an incorrect accusative noun).

We definitely need to figure the rest of this out. :) I love translating things like this.

[Vivisteiner]

Yeah. Grammar was always my weakest point.
In Latin exams I cheat too often by making sense of sentences without paying close enough attention to the grammar. I take into account the fact that it has to make sense.

Another non-linguistical reason Im inclined to believe its not from 'to love' is that one SE guy mentioned that the story wouldnt involve love. lol. Dont kill me for sayin that.

Also, you know in poems and in songs, they muck around a lot with the Latin. I was wondering if that could be a reason its so hard to translate, with all the dodgy grammar.

You seem to know your grammar very well. Does that mean that 'amandamque' cant be a form of 'amandare'.
Since amandamque is the gerundive, doesnt that mean their should be a 'must' in there.

The rest of the Latin I heard
Et nocte pervehe tua e hem vers dens alii onem. Pavor omnivere pona manes tempus et per e escendi.


Please dont kill me for chucking in a gerundive for my translation of the last line. I just thought it sounded better.

Also note: The bit you got 'omnia' from. I think its 'homme vir'

[Dr Aum]

No, amandam isn't a valid form of amandare. It resembles a first person future or subjunctive, but since the verb is a 1st, it can't be. I'm pretty sure that amandam is the gerundive (just like the name Amanda--the one to be loved). Besides, it would be active anyway, and would take a dative as its object since it's a compount (ab + mando), and there are no datives there. Also, the "must" construction, passive periphrastic, is only with an esse verb. Of course, esses are often supplied in poetry.
The omnia also clearly sounds like an omnia to me, which makes sense considering it would agree with tragedia. Homme is not a Latin word (it's French).

I hope that helps. :)

[Vivisteiner]

Could you translate the last sentence then? You have a convincing argument, could you try to make some sense of it by using 'to be loved?'

For the 'homme' bit. I didnt really know what it was, but I thought it was possibly connected to 'homo' man. I forgot that 'homme' is French not Latin.

The 'Omnia' bit. I think I can hear a 'v' and I cant hear an 'n'.

[Dr Aum]

It divides all tragedies and the loving heart.

[Vivisteiner]

Doesnt really make much sense in the whole context. :(
Why do they have to use such complex Latin?

[ZellDnicht]

<DIR>Okay folks, we've done it! We heard the song at least 40 times today and in 2 hours with our latin knowledge (6 years at school, 4 hours per week) and our big latin school bo + dictionary we transcripted the whole song, also the part with the shootings...
..And yes there were many mistakes in the old version. The meaning is completely different. You must know that in Latin one word like for example Dies, Diei has a different meaning in the different conjugations. And that's the big problem when you translate Latin. Your English translation is nice, but far from the right one...
</DIR>...Now we're going to translate it with our Latin professor because some grammatical constructions are probably of modern latin, and in the next days we'll post the new Subtitled Video on YouTube, and the correct translation on these pages. Ciao!

A little bit of the correct transcription, control yourself it's right:

Tellus dormit
et liberi in diem
faciunt numquam extingunt (yes it's hard to hear but she says extin..gunt test it with the volume at 100%)
ne expergisci (deponens infinitive) possint.

Not more, 'till the next days =))

ciao dall'italia!

[ZellDnicht]

Okay we worked with our latin professor and he heard the song with us. First of all we have to say that this girl Yoko Shimowhatever doesn't now latin at all, she uses grammatical constructions that are nonsense, incomplete sentences and wrong endings, but with some corrections we could translate it as close as possible. NOTE THAT THIS WAS TRANSLATED BY LATIN EXPERTS! BY A PROFESSOR! IT'S THE ONLY CORRECT VERSION WITH THESE WORDS! and at least, all words exist in latin! =) Note that the title of the song SOMNUS NEMURI is wrong it should be SOMNUS NEMORIS.
And here you have it:

LATIN
Tellus dormit
et liberi in diem faciunt
numquam extinguunt
ne expergisci possint.

Omnia dividit
tragoedia coram
amandum quae.

Et nocte perpetua
ehem vel vera visione
par oram videbo te
mane tempu expergiscendi.

ENGLISH:

Somnus Nemoris (Dream of the Wood)

The kingdom sleeps
and children sacrify theirselves day by day
until they extinguish,
and they will never awake.

This tragedy destroys
in front of them
every beloved thing.

And in this neverending night
look there, the real vision
on the edge I will see you
and the next morning the time will awake.

[ZellDnicht]

HERE THE CORRECT SUBTITLED VIDEO ON YOUTUBE! ENJOY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0u7xTHvv4Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0u7xTHvv4Y)

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0u7xTHvv4Y)

[Vivisteiner]

First of all, you should not triple post.

Your translation is a good attempt, although even though it was done by a whole bunch of you, and your teacher, I dont agree completely. A lot of your words are similar anyway.
This is what I think:

Tellus dormit -agree
et liberi in diem faciunt - its similar to mine.
numquam extinguunt - Its hard to hear. The meaning is still similar.
ne expergisci possint. - Its too hard to tell if its 'nec sper' or 'ne exper'

Omnia dividit - I think I hear a 'v'
tragoedia coram
amandum quae.

Et nocte perpetua - I agree!
ehem vel vera visione - I disagree. I dont hear 'visi' and I hear an 'l' sound
par oram videbo te - I completely disagree. Im sure my Latin is more accurate.
mane tempu expergiscendi. - Im not sure. I think I hear a 'g', but I cant hear an 'x'. Anyway, it can also mean 'arise', which I think is the better translations. And is similar to 'ascend'.


My conclusion, is that you cannot say this is the correct version. Both of our versions have weaknesses. If we work together though, we could acheive an even more accurate translation.

Also, are you sure you are listening to a loud enough version. Some parts you say, I cannot hear. Especially the 2nd part of your translation.

Listen to this youtube link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOC8wDxwmLE
It is louder, and makes it easier to hear words.

I may post back with a reviewed version of the translation, when I next have time.

If only that woman would sing more clearly. Some words are just too hard to tell apart.

[ZellDnicht]

As i said, it is the only possible way to translate it with THE WORDS THAT WE HEARD. I didn't say this is the official translation. With the words that we think to hear, this is the closest way to translate them.

[StormGust]

sorry Vivisteiner,but without grammar, you can't translate a thing.

if you want to practice hearing the right things, listen to a Read-Version of Vergils Aeneid ( which due to it being poetry is kind of hard to understand)


also Coram is "facing" or "in view of" ~~ ( which doesn'T make sense at all) it could also be Corruam (future 1st person of corruere)

which, with it being AmandumQUE will translate to "and i will Destroy the Loved One"

and as posted by me on youtube is could also be "nex per ti, si concit" ... ( Nex in German is pronounced the way it is in this song... )

edit:

the "et nocte ... tempu" is correct, though i would guess its expergefaciendi and not just expergiscendi (i can clearly hear a "tiendi")

edit2:

ok part after the "numquam extinguunt" isn't possible as a "sh/sch" doesn'T exist in latin ( unless she is pronouncing a "t" or a "s" or a "c" this way (and untill someone agrees on the later) i won't start to look up all the possibilities for the words used there

[ZellDnicht]

Good entry! I suppose that now the only thing is to wait for the lyrics.

[Vivisteiner]

Updated Translation

A kingdom sleeps and children make groans that are never ended. Nor can they hope. A man is divided, he faces tragedy and is sent away. *

And in the everlasting night, he dreams of his other troubles. To bear every fear is his punishment which he must endure throughout time, and from it arise.

Tellus dormit,
Et liberi ingem faciunt
Numquam extinguunt.
Nec spertisi possit.

Hom vir dividit
Tragoedia coram
Amandamque

Et nocte perpetua
Ehem vers den alii onem.
Pavor omnifere pona
Manes tempus
Expergiscendi

Do you agree?



* It could easily be the translation you suggested, but to me it doesn’t sound right, or fit in with the second half of my translation.
Also, 'dreams' is lit 'thinks of.'

Grammar wise, its pointless checking that it perfectly agrees, since the singing is too unclear and you cannot get correct endings. That is why the translation is so debatable.
__________________

[StormGust]

i only agree on the "Tellus dormit et liberi"
ingem/in diem could also be "indem" ( which, alongside the numquam would make sense)

[ZellDnicht]

ehmm...you never studied latin at school, did you?

endings are important in latin, one word has different meanings with different endings. a word like DAY in latin (dies, diei) with different endings can be: to the day, at the day, in the day, day by day, etc.
You cannot ignore endings.

Second thing:
You invent most of the words of your translation as I said, ingem, den, hom, vir is nonsense if you think that hom means man, or she would say two times MAN, spertisi, and so on.

Third thing:
In latin you cannot transform a verb into a substantive as you want.

Then here:

Tellus dormit, OK
Et liberi ingem faciunt INGEM DOESN't EXIST (ingemo, ingemere)
Numquam extinguunt.
Nec spertisi possit. SPERTISI DOESN't EXIST , nec sperare possunt would be right.

Hom vir dividit Hom = nothing Vir = man (MAN/MAN?)
Tragoedia coram coram is not HE FACE! that's not a verb!
Amandamque (where can you find SENT AWAY? please tell me =))

Et nocte perpetua OK
Ehem vers den alii onem. den DOESN't EXIST, you don't have to dream in this sentence.
Pavor omnifere pona (poena)
Manes tempus manes is soul in latin
Expergiscendi

etc.etc.etc.

[Vivisteiner]

ehmm...you never studied latin at school, did you?
Please. Shut up.


Ok.
den = de.
Was a typo


Hom vir dividit Hom = nothing Vir = man (MAN/MAN?)
Tragoedia coram coram is not HE FACE! that's not a verb!
Amandamque (where can you find SENT AWAY? please tell me =))
The 'hom' bit, I wasnt really sure of. Its just because 'omnia' would not be pronounced in that way. I think I hear 'vir'.
'coram', I translated it liberally, to help it make sense. It could be 'A man is divided in the presence of tragedy, and is sent away.' I dont have time to cheack the grammar.

Amandamque - Could come from 'amando' which is send away. The grammar may not work out, but it doesnt work out for your version of the translation either. Youve used language liberally too.




Et nocte perpetua OK
Ehem vers den alii onem. den DOESN't EXIST, you don't have to dream in this sentence.
Pavor omnifere pona (poena)
Manes tempus manes is soul in latin
Expergiscendi

You have not criticised 'Pavor omnifere poena', which you did not have in your translation. I put 'dream' instead of 'thinks of'. Maneo = endure.
It could be 'His soul is punished to bear every fear throughout time, and from it arise.' Or something.



endings are important in latin, one word has different meanings with different endings. a word like DAY in latin (dies, diei) with different endings can be: to the day, at the day, in the day, day by day, etc.
You cannot ignore endings.


It is too hard to hear the ending. Therefore, I have focused upon meaning above grammar. Unless there is a massive mistake, theres probably no point debating about it.


Overall. I think your 1st verse could be better than mine (although I wont bother to change it) - and they have similar meanings.
Neither of our 2nd verses are particularly satisfactory. Im sure you know the faults and problems encountered in both.
And my 3rd verse is more accurate than yours.


Anyway, Im getting sick of this, so why dont we just laissez-faire.:)


EDIT: Actually, 'in diem' could be right. I wasnt satisfied by 'sacrifice' but it could be

'And the exploitation of children is never ended.'

[StormGust]

Omnia is pronounced that way, at least here in Germany :P

1. "pavor omnifere pona"

Pavor = dread
Omnifere= doesn't exist
pona= doesn't exist

so you should really start to think of something else


2. "manes tempus expergiscendi"

Manes= You remain , as Well as "the Soul"
Tempus, -oris n. (so it can only be accusative)
Expergiscendi, Gerundium genetive ~~ thus it belongs to Tempus


now tell me how you would bring the "Manes" in relation to the "Tempus Expergiscendi"

*hint*: it's Tempu and thus a ablative

[ZellDnicht]

Ok go further with your version, I'll go with mine.
Just one thing: it's dangerous in latin to focus only on the meaning because often (read: always) if you dont' look at the grammar, the meaning is completely different. That's the first thing you learn at school. Expecially for us, words are often similar to Italian, but have different meanings.

In my first verse i used UNTIL, that's not in the lyrics I know.
The second verse should be right, I think amandum comes from amare.
The third verse, I think I heard it correctly, I just forgot to translate the gerundium. It should be I will see you in the morning at the time of the awakening.

I translate closer to my words than you to yours, then please don't say in youtube that I have so a big amount of errors in my version, and if, show them.

[ZellDnicht]

"Omnia is pronounced that way, at least here in Germany :P"
IN ITALY TOO.

"1. "pavor omnifere pona"

Pavor = dread
Omnifere= doesn't exist
pona= doesn't exist"

I didn't have time to control this in the dictionary, so I didn't criticize it.

"2. "manes tempus expergiscendi"

Manes= You remain , as Well as "the Soul"
Tempus, -oris n. (so it can only be accusative)
Expergiscendi, Gerundium genetive ~~ thus it belongs to Tempus


now tell me how you would bring the "Manes" in relation to the "Tempus Expergiscendi"

*hint*: it's Tempu and thus a ablative"

Mane Tempu Expergiscendi = In the morning at the time of awakening.
[!] / message [/!]

[Vivisteiner]

Ok go further with your version, I'll go with mine.

We should do that. Right now, this is just getting tedious.

Anyway, Im sure that neither of our translations will be perfect, I guess we'll just have to wait till Squeenix releases the lyrics. The Latin is so hard to work out, so all we can do is wait. The final result will probably be a combination of both our translations.

[StormGust]

Yeah we would have to wait for the lyrics to get released (which for sure won't before the game is officialy released -..-).

And i still think, that Zelldnichts version is more correct than yours Vivisteiner. (and thats Just because he actually is living and italy, and i believe he has a better knowledge of pronounciation than you)

edit:
hmm, if i listen to this "louder" version posted by you vivisteiner, some parts clearly sound different.
(a lot different, e.g. Concit instead of possint)

[Vivisteiner]

Lol. Your last line shows how amazingly different our ears are. I cant hear that at all!

Now I suppose we just wait. In the end, all differences in translation are because we all hear different things. We all think our own versions are correct. So I wait....wait.....wait.....wait......

...and wait :mad:

[Natsumesan]

One question does it affect the grammer if it is translated from Japanese to Latin?
Maybe thats why the grammer is strange when you tried to translate it to English....but thats my oppinion.