Conversation Between Loony BoB and Sephiroth

16 Visitor Messages

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
  1. I'd be for a short FF story day soon.
  2. Oops, I meant Kitase, Nojima and Sakaguchi. Got my Nomura and Nojima confused.

    Everything in the original game is canon - because that is the game. Anything added outside of the game is automatically "less" canon than the original story. There are multiple threads for that story, multiple stories if you like, and the game I played happened to play out the way it played out. That means, for me, that is Final Fantasy VII. There is nought more "accurate" than the original game itself. Technically, some people out there could say that Barret went on a date with Cloud in their story and maybe they see that as canon. So be it - it's in the original game they played and if that's how it played out, that's how it is for them.

    That random unconfirmed unspecified SE employee saying most people don't understand FFVII is genuinely nothing worth noting whatsoever. I could get a job at SE and say the opposite, and suddenly I'd be "anonymous SE employee" stating something. It was even detailed as a rumour, and they don't even state what the hell they're referring to. I doubt it's the love story, either way. I think that was more about getting an HD remake given the context of the article.

    You're the one saying we should stop, but you're carrying on.
  3. You know, despite you and me probably not fully agreeing, no matter why, I am glad that we had such a normal conversation. One last thing to mention because of the message you wrote after this one, "canon" does just not mean "what is in the game" but "what counts" and canon is just what the creator wants to be canon. What is outside of the game is not "less canon"; that is just what you think but not what automatically and objectively is true. The canonicity is very clear, and those topics are also already answered in the main game. "Me seeing my own canon" is not possible. That would be fanon and useless for something where the true canon exists, which it does. Everything in the game cannot be canon because it has multiple options causing a paradox (Cloud dated Aerith, dated Tifa, dated Yuffie, dated Barret is not canon, Cloud defeating 4324545345 enemies and getting GAME OVER is not canon, him doing optional stuff cannot be canon, only what is meant to be as this is very definiton of canonicity). This is often misunderstood. Canon is something different. Also, the rumor is not the interview but the ominous subtext of letting Final Fantasy VII go. I never said, it was the love issue. I am talking about Final Fantasy VII in general. Again, you may not just take segments. Then you will see there is no debate necessary. Like almost always in life.

    Those are my final words to really show my respect to the guy who talked to me as it doesn't matter what he said.
  4. "I would say that Kitase, Nomura and Sakaguchi are those who retain that right."

    I mean that.

    Anyways it won't change what I said and which is based on what is official. Excatly the opposite from what you have used as an example now. "Katou", who is not one of the main writers wrote the Highwind scene and it was never used like this. Such as Sephiroth and Aerith were never lovers and also in no version siblings. Don't get me wrong. They can have slept with each other. At the same time is is not officially stated to be true, never was provided with unequivocal material, never declared a canonical scene and also never defined as "sex = true love". I already told you there is something between Cloud and Tifa. Both Aerith and her were referred to as his "koibito" (it can mean a very precious person, a beloved one or also a lover). This is the only thing about it that is undeniable, such as Aerith wanting Cloud to be jealous of Zack, her wanting to know their future, their souls being connected or things he associates with her are his Promised Land as well as the story says Cloud needs an older woman that cares for him. I don't just use the parts I like, I use all of them or I only have half the story and probably totally wrong as well then because it has a different meaning. I consider Tifa's aspects, Cloud's and Aerith's. And yes, it can be misinterpreted. It can and it is. Do you remember John Brittenham? The game itself contradicted him 100% and still thousands of people believed him that the world is flat (= JENOVA is the mastermind which is wrong). You at the same time claim what you say to be true with "Cloud and Tifa being more in love" so you very well thing that is the existing truth. So you must understand that I take all material to show you the opposite, which is intended.

    Again, even Square Enix says people probably don't understand Final Fantasy VII. That is no wonder with flashlight-like reading.

    I really recommend we stop now.
  5. I said "Sakaguchi, Kitase and Nojima" didn't I? xD Oh well, no worries.

    Thousands upon thousands of fans (if not millions) can't suddenly all have misinterpreted that Tifa and Cloud were in love more than Aeris and Cloud. Love triangles exist to be debated, and in this case the company never made it clear in the story because different things could have happened. Apparently (and I can't state where this is from, it's just often quoted) Tifa and Cloud make their feelings known to each other and confirm that they match, and from there they sleep with each other. It was always implied that this happened. I think the most complete thing out there for such a discussion is here, and the conclusion is entirely accurate.
  6. You know people often think I tell them they are wrong because I don't like what they think. But actually there is a very simple explanation to me. I would never say anyone's opinion where is is fitting like him hating Final Fantasy VII (no matter how unfortunate I find that) is wrong. But when someone eats a pear and says he eats an apple I very well say something different.
  7. No, the part of Kazushige Nojima referred to you not mentioning him but only three people.

    As mentioned, you don't need to mention something directly. Or shall I use Tifa's words "against" you to explain you the complex levels of communication and the Cloud and Aerith thing then? There is enough to state what is implied. And again, you need to take everything otherwise you mistake metaphorical expressions (or a bit different than what a term is normally used for) with something you want to understand in a direct way. The "fact" you say which is just another metaphorical thing but has nothing to do with the really written and published thing. See the "real Cloud" that I have explained. There it is also a very misleading term when it comes to discussing things. Or Tidus being a dream in Final Fantasy X which also is misunderstood by many. Or Bhunivelze being called "allmighty" even thought he is not in te most essential way. Or look at the Promised Land. The Promised Land is objectively true to subjectively exist. That is something for the individual themselves. Or Sephiroth being the controller of JENOVA when it was explained, he can transfer and project his consciousness, JENOVA is just an animal an the game pretty much says "But as the genius I am I realized immediately. It was all Sephiroth's doing." Don't get me wrong. I like Tifa very much. That is not it. I am not like that. But I am more a fan of what is and so she will never get mentioned more by me than the context that was intended - and believe me, the context can be proven as that material exists, even inside of the game - shows. Maybe I am very nitpicky about this with my psychology knowledge including communication psychology (no showing off here it is just to explain me) but my persistance helps me understanding the meaning of things better. And normally something said has a meaning of things. When material to decode it is written as well, it does anyway.

    Now! Geez, we can't leave it.
  8. Nojima wrote Dismantled? That's peculiar, considering he has been the one to promote Tifa as a love interest more than pretty much anyone (I'm fairly certain he was the one that, when pressed about which love interest was the true one, said that it was up to the player.

    Despite all that, even in Dismantled - despite it being very much pro-Aeris - there is still nothing from Cloud that outright says "I love Aeris more than Tifa." I thank SE for never stating this. Even if they stated that Tifa was the preferred option for Cloud, I would be gutted that they would announce something like that, because it would ruin the fact that it is the player who gets to truly decide which he loves the most.

    Again, I'm still unsure as to what you feel I am denying.
  9. You know Kazushige Nojima is one of the main writers and also writes many of the Final Fantasy stories?

    But I am glad that somehow we come to something different. Even though it still is a law thing. Of course someone else thinks something that is not 100% the same. Still there is always the possibility, of coming to "the closest". Also again, Square declares the canon and the Kaitai Shinsho was released pretty much after Final Fantasy VII so it having "just pleasuring fanboys" intention is not existent. Even if it would have, it can still be declared canon by its creators. Just like when you and I write something they could declare it canon because they have created it and payed a lot of money to make it their brand. Look at Star Wars for example. George Lucas now has no right to declare anything canon anymore. He just gives some advices because he originally created it. Again, thinking that we don't need to accept something as being true (and I mean the objective true as you know) makes reading someone's story no good in the first place. Of course everyone imagined Harry Potter's Privet Drive different but it doesn't matter that the facts "Harry Potter lives in the Privet Drive" and what it was described is the canon part of it and if J.K. Rowling had a concrete imagination about what it looks like then we have something "even more" canon (metaphorically, not in a measurable way of more canon like the True-canon, semi-canon, et cetera, terms, it just exists and counts). I mean why arguing about things being not true because we don't like it when they have the same nature as what we like and which is also true? That is not fitting and not fair as it will not change anything anyway. Look at our old Aerith argument. Square intended to call her Aerith, such as Zack was always Zack and not Zax or Sephiroth not Sephiros. And that has also been shown right after it came out to clean that mess of mistakes. I don't know about you but when I listen to someone then I want to understand what he means as close as possible. Such as you and such as Square Enix. You ask me what time it is and I tell you "time for xy". Of course you think what an ass because you don't know what that means for me and you still don't have the time you wanted to know because you don't have enough information to conclude the intended context (if it even was a part of my answer that somehow is intended to be conluded and not just something about time in a completely different way like when I say "time to end this" and I don't actually mean "yeah, it's 12PM, so we finish this"). Hopefully my random comments are understandable for you. To describe an example for the situation they are appropriate as they still have the core of what I am talking about in the first place.

    We both can't stop it seems.
  10. I'm starting to wonder what it is that you think I'm denying.

    The only thing I am stating on a categorical level is that VII when it was created was created as a single game, not as part of a wider compilation. The wider compilation was created by some of those involved, yes, and they have not announced anything to reject either relationship, in fact you can say they simply promote both of them. One writer might have a different opinion to another writer, too, and this does seem to have been the case from time to time in these interviews (particularly when they involve Nomura, who seems to have "picked up" VII and taken it as his own property on many occasions despite Sakaguchi, Kitase and Nojima all having far more control over things). But in the end, the Dismantled stories were penned by someone who was never involved in the story writing of the original game, and it is the original game that I will often refer to as the "master story".

    Let's put it this way: I don't take most of the current Lord of the Rings film works as "canon", particularly the stuff involving Legolas - yet they have the rights to create such things because they were given the authority. However, I question who has the right to tell the story of FFVII on an acceptable, truly canon level. I would say that Kitase, Nomura and Sakaguchi are those who retain that right. Nomura licenced some random person in the company to write Dismantled, and while he had the right to, there is no reason that the fans of the original piece "have to accept it" as "truth". They can see it as officially canon, but they can also see that on an artistic level, this is not the story taken from the mind that produced, wrote and directed the original masterpiece.
Showing Visitor Messages 1 to 10 of 16
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast