Conversation Between The Man and Freya

Peer pressure

It started this week so you cans till get into it. DO IT WITH ME

I may have to look into that myself

I'M LEARNING HOW TO ARGUE FROM DUKE UNIVERSITY. Prepare to be argued with after i'm professionally trained, freed.

That's just it, though, there were ops in the room, but no one said anything. And they had been talking, so it seems unlikely that anyone would have missed it.

But that's the thing, just because i'm not there to enforce you lot from being disgusting doesn't mean that gives you right to be. Just because another OP doesn't say something as I have, doesn't mean it's suddenly okay. To think so is just being obtuse.


There isn't as much inconsistency as you're trying to make it out to be. Honestly, tell me where it has been inconsistent? Because so far it's just me saying something and them not. And for that point refer to the previous paragraph.

don't worry too much about it, I've had way worse said to me, and thanks. xD I should add that these complaints aren't solely mine; various people I've spoken to in #eoff have expressed similar sentiments, but I know they're too lazy to do anything about it other than complain in #eoff. I'm not just bitching for the sake of bitching; I really am trying to help avert future problems in the future here, and know from my long history of administering message boards that people's confusion about inconsistent enforcement of rules can lead to problems later on down the line. xD

As I've said, it's fine that you want to enforce standards. My problem isn't that the standards are being enforced; it's that they are being inconsistently enforced. At various times in the chatroom since the incident in quesiton occurred, the conversation appears to have gotten to be as explicit as it was the time you told us to knock it off (I don't think I was in the chatroom when kotora's example happened, or at least I wasn't paying attention, so I can't really comment on that example), and no one said anything. Now maybe this later discussion really wasn't as explicit as it was when everyone was discussing fetlife photos. I'd have to go back through my logs and pick through examples to clarify why I think this, and I don't really feel like doing that at 0215 hr. But at the time those discussions were happening, I really didn't see much distinction, because the later discussion was still pretty damn explicit sex discussion in pretty thorough detail. (For a few examples, people were speculating in rather thorough detail on what Mel and I might do when we meet up; various people discussed various preferences we have; and so on).

I'm not expecting staff to spell out word-exact definitions of exactly how much detail people can go into (that would be opening the door to rules abuse by trolls and rules lawyers amongst other potential problems), but the enforcement of the explicit content rule seems to vary to a rather large extent depending on which ops are in the channel at the time, and because of this it's a bit difficult to get a handle on what is okay. If staff restrain themselves to simply telling people to take it to #tot I suppose this becomes less of a problem, but what will happen if this keeps happening? Will people still be told to take it to #tot even if the same person has been in three such conversations? Five? If it remains "take it to #tot" every time, that's not a terribly large problem, but it still remains a case of the enforcement of the rules being unpredictable, and this seems to be a pretty common complaint whenever rules enforcement comes up in #eoff.

I am completely on board with you guys doing things about trolling; as I believe I even said in the Feedback thread, the trolling had gotten insufferably out of hand and I don't have any problem with kicking or even banning people for being dicks. From what I can tell there don't seem to be any cases of inconsistent enforcement of trolling. I also agree that when there are enough complaints about the content of the chatroom, it is worth doing something about (obviously you can't please everyone, but within reason). However, this appears to work both ways - judging from the conversations people have had about the rules while I've been in #eoff, there still appear to be numerous complaints with the way things are being handled that do not appear to have been fully resolved.

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm blaming you specifically for the rules. I'm not. From what I can tell, this is almost entirely a problem with staff, collectively, not being on the same page, so it's not any one person's fault. I don't even really care if you guys codify a set of standards that you don't release to the public - what I'm mostly concerned with is what appears to be a pretty big inconsistency of enforcement from op to op. If I can get a clear explanation for why the examples I've brought up (and others I've left out) don't fall afoul of the rules while the examples you mentioned do, I'll also be satisfied.

I just realized how asinine I sound if you do have aspergers. O.O I say "then you truly do need to reassess your social skills." but doesn't aspergers make that hard for you? Now I feel like a jerk. I'm sorry.

I don't get what you don't understand about "crude discussion". This means talking about whatever gross things in excessive details as you lot are wont to do. That's not just sex, that's anything gross or rude or whatever. Just because I haven't cracked down on other things doesn't mean I will not do so in the future. I do not care if you guys "do it all the time". That doesn't make it right. That phrase has been a coveted excuse for various misdeed throughout time. Just because "jimmy" does it doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. The only issues that anyone bitches about, the only examples, are the two times I told people to knock it off with the sex talk. That's it. Why is that the only thing that seems to be cracked down on? Because that's the only thing I've seen you lot go over the line with. Inconsistency, pft. I'm consistent with my distaste for crude behavior and actions. Of staff, I'm probably the most strict about it, that's correct, but regardless of that there are things you should just not talk about in polite company. If you think chat is not that way then you need to realize that anyone at any time can come in there. It's open to whoever walks in. That's a public place. A public place does not need conversations like those.

Trolling? That's been a universal thing we've all been dealing with lately. After various complaints given to staff by a vast amount of people, we had to step in. It got to the point where we had to step in. You want to complain about, "oh the big mean staffers are taking away our chat's fun " when we wouldn't have had to do anything if there wasn't a need for it. We can't have nice things because of some people. It got to the point where enough people were complaining that we had to heed their complaints and come up with something. You did that to yourselves. You can't say we are doing this with no reason, there was a lot of reason.

You want to help the frontsite, you personally. You know the thing about us pushing "frontsite" content? We're trying to make this place all on the same page. We are putting the effort into the frontsite to make it important, it wont be as important as the forums but it's nowhere near as unimportant as it use to be. We're trying to bring everything up to level rather than the forums being the only thing with any attention. This includes chat. Chat isn't going to be EoFF's forgotten cousin. It needs the same attention. If people are complaining enough who are normally in there that it's bad, what's that say about new people coming in?

No, it's not going to be moderated like the forums. To think so is just being foolish and stubborn. Chat is a fluid thing, it's a constant conversation. It may dip and slow at times but it's constantly moving. With that, it's hard to put any strict rules in place and frankly they aren't needed. If you honestly think the rules are strict than I want to see what you think is lax. You're adults, you don't need your hands held. If you think we're doing that then you guys really are overreacting. (well you guys ARE overreacting already) If you honestly can't tell what is not okay to say in a public conversation then you truly do need to reassess your social skills.


I'm done with this. You all honestly sound like whiny children. You can argue what I said but it doesn't make it any less true. I'm not BoB. I will not pick out everything you say and refute it like it deserves my attention, cause it doesn't. If you don't know what's "crude discussion" and what's not okay to talk about or how to act then that's your problem. We are consistent in the generals. It's specifics like me personally not wanting to hear about how much you prefer someone's tits or when kotora was going into detail on how he gets women off with his hands. That for me, is uncomfortable. I don't care if you personally don't feel that way, but I do. I know FOR A FACT I'm not alone in those type of feelings. I am just now in a position to do something about it.

I have yet to ban someone. I have yet to kick someone. I have only said, "hey guys this is making me uncomfortable and weird can we take this somewhere else?" or "can we knock it off guys? take it to #tot or something" Have I kicked? No. Have I banned? No. I didn't even warn. So this overblowing it like we're being horribly oppressive? Yeah. Stop that. Cause we're not. The only people who really have gotten any warnings were the two that were trolling. So there's that. Facts, crazy how those work.

Move along, Freed. Move along. Go white horse something else.