Loony BoB
is an EoFF Champion
Newbie
Administrator

"I would say that Kitase, Nomura and Sakaguchi are those who retain that right."

I mean that.

Anyways it won't change what I said and which is based on what is official. Excatly the opposite from what you have used as an example now. "Katou", who is not one of the main writers wrote the Highwind scene and it was never used like this. Such as Sephiroth and Aerith were never lovers and also in no version siblings. Don't get me wrong. They can have slept with each other. At the same time is is not officially stated to be true, never was provided with unequivocal material, never declared a canonical scene and also never defined as "sex = true love". I already told you there is something between Cloud and Tifa. Both Aerith and her were referred to as his "koibito" (it can mean a very precious person, a beloved one or also a lover). This is the only thing about it that is undeniable, such as Aerith wanting Cloud to be jealous of Zack, her wanting to know their future, their souls being connected or things he associates with her are his Promised Land as well as the story says Cloud needs an older woman that cares for him. I don't just use the parts I like, I use all of them or I only have half the story and probably totally wrong as well then because it has a different meaning. I consider Tifa's aspects, Cloud's and Aerith's. And yes, it can be misinterpreted. It can and it is. Do you remember John Brittenham? The game itself contradicted him 100% and still thousands of people believed him that the world is flat (= JENOVA is the mastermind which is wrong). You at the same time claim what you say to be true with "Cloud and Tifa being more in love" so you very well thing that is the existing truth. So you must understand that I take all material to show you the opposite, which is intended.

Again, even Square Enix says people probably don't understand Final Fantasy VII. That is no wonder with flashlight-like reading.

I really recommend we stop now.

You know people often think I tell them they are wrong because I don't like what they think. But actually there is a very simple explanation to me. I would never say anyone's opinion where is is fitting like him hating Final Fantasy VII (no matter how unfortunate I find that) is wrong. But when someone eats a pear and says he eats an apple I very well say something different.

No, the part of Kazushige Nojima referred to you not mentioning him but only three people.

As mentioned, you don't need to mention something directly. Or shall I use Tifa's words "against" you to explain you the complex levels of communication and the Cloud and Aerith thing then? There is enough to state what is implied. And again, you need to take everything otherwise you mistake metaphorical expressions (or a bit different than what a term is normally used for) with something you want to understand in a direct way. The "fact" you say which is just another metaphorical thing but has nothing to do with the really written and published thing. See the "real Cloud" that I have explained. There it is also a very misleading term when it comes to discussing things. Or Tidus being a dream in Final Fantasy X which also is misunderstood by many. Or Bhunivelze being called "allmighty" even thought he is not in te most essential way. Or look at the Promised Land. The Promised Land is objectively true to subjectively exist. That is something for the individual themselves. Or Sephiroth being the controller of JENOVA when it was explained, he can transfer and project his consciousness, JENOVA is just an animal an the game pretty much says "But as the genius I am I realized immediately. It was all Sephiroth's doing." Don't get me wrong. I like Tifa very much. That is not it. I am not like that. But I am more a fan of what is and so she will never get mentioned more by me than the context that was intended - and believe me, the context can be proven as that material exists, even inside of the game - shows. Maybe I am very nitpicky about this with my psychology knowledge including communication psychology (no showing off here it is just to explain me) but my persistance helps me understanding the meaning of things better. And normally something said has a meaning of things. When material to decode it is written as well, it does anyway.

Now! Geez, we can't leave it.

You know Kazushige Nojima is one of the main writers and also writes many of the Final Fantasy stories?

But I am glad that somehow we come to something different. Even though it still is a law thing. Of course someone else thinks something that is not 100% the same. Still there is always the possibility, of coming to "the closest". Also again, Square declares the canon and the Kaitai Shinsho was released pretty much after Final Fantasy VII so it having "just pleasuring fanboys" intention is not existent. Even if it would have, it can still be declared canon by its creators. Just like when you and I write something they could declare it canon because they have created it and payed a lot of money to make it their brand. Look at Star Wars for example. George Lucas now has no right to declare anything canon anymore. He just gives some advices because he originally created it. Again, thinking that we don't need to accept something as being true (and I mean the objective true as you know) makes reading someone's story no good in the first place. Of course everyone imagined Harry Potter's Privet Drive different but it doesn't matter that the facts "Harry Potter lives in the Privet Drive" and what it was described is the canon part of it and if J.K. Rowling had a concrete imagination about what it looks like then we have something "even more" canon (metaphorically, not in a measurable way of more canon like the True-canon, semi-canon, et cetera, terms, it just exists and counts). I mean why arguing about things being not true because we don't like it when they have the same nature as what we like and which is also true? That is not fitting and not fair as it will not change anything anyway. Look at our old Aerith argument. Square intended to call her Aerith, such as Zack was always Zack and not Zax or Sephiroth not Sephiros. And that has also been shown right after it came out to clean that mess of mistakes. I don't know about you but when I listen to someone then I want to understand what he means as close as possible. Such as you and such as Square Enix. You ask me what time it is and I tell you "time for xy". Of course you think what an ass because you don't know what that means for me and you still don't have the time you wanted to know because you don't have enough information to conclude the intended context (if it even was a part of my answer that somehow is intended to be conluded and not just something about time in a completely different way like when I say "time to end this" and I don't actually mean "yeah, it's 12PM, so we finish this"). Hopefully my random comments are understandable for you. To describe an example for the situation they are appropriate as they still have the core of what I am talking about in the first place.

We both can't stop it seems.

I forgot to say one of the most important things even though I say it so often and it is part of my texts:

You may never forget the context. Let's use a "they said comment xy" example. Now they have a clear intention of what they mean and we think we know it because the sentence alone can be decoded in an easy way. The problem is, that enough things together with their sentence exist and that they are actually meant to be related to it by whoever said it and which should actually help to understand the intended context.

This is not a Final Fantasy VII issue. This is an issue of communication in general.

Ah, I guess that's enough now.

Crap, I wrote it in my own profile.

Um, no. Square and Square Enix is the same company. A company is the people not just a name (no matter who leaves or how many join, except you mean "it is not them" metaphorically, I guess you know I am very strict about those words) and despite some of them having left the important story writers or people involved in it are still there. Kazushige Nojima, Yoshinori Kitase, Tetsuya Nomura and Motomu Toriyama are and always were here to tell the story. I also don't know what "seems" for you, when I say it is only canonical when it is stated and that is simply a fact of law and intellectual property. Not to mention Aerith's line always appeared in canon and the thing you think - and was never used like you think - was not even written by the main writer. By now you should know I do know Japanese very well (though it would not be useful when I am one side of the conversation, I guess) and they never said it is up to us. I could give you a full summary of the official material including interviews were they show both Tifa and Aerith's side and those things just exist. Not to mention, to not say something about an Aerith line now, Tetsuya Nomura once said (can be proven) he doesn't know what happened with Cloud and Tifa relationship-wise after Final Fantasy VII ended and that On the Way to a Smile shows that they, no matter Aerith being alive or not, can't get along really well. For me personally I don't think so as I think they also would be happy someday but again, it is not up to me. You can't say there is no obvious answer when the official material shows it. This means you would be ignoring it and then you would ignore Final Fantasy VII itself making the story for you non-existent. The problem is that you think "truths" can actually be seen differently, but they can't. Not the very direct way I am talking about. No matter how we rate it, we are having this conversation. No matter how you call it and how fast it is, our world is spinning. No matter how we call it you are not me and I am not you. That is also a truth that is exactly like this in its core. It does not matter what words we use. The state of truth very well stays the same and when it is contradicting it can't be. You insist on saying "they never do, it is intended" but this is just by ignoring things that are intended. Planning something and then deciding something else are also not the same thing. It was even first thought (by Tetsuya Nomura) Advent Children could be interpreted a bit more but instead On the Way to a Smile and the Ultimania Omega, official Compilation material, were released to answer everything necessary as you can see. I have shown you in the forum multiple things from official stuff that always was and is intended and leaves the answers, such as Tetsuya Nomura once said (about the questions of Final Fantasy VII in general) and no matter how much has been written to that now, it will always be here. There is no "personally" for me, because I know that Cloud loves them both. The story shows it and the Ultimania says it. And when it comes to the extent, it is also shown how much. The story even shows that he doesn't fully realize his feelings for both of them which is the reason why the player himself has other textboxes or actions that while not saying "I love you" (which Cloud has had the chance to say because Tifa asked him in On the Way to a Smile and he couldn't answer still of course he does to an extent) directly give the needed information and while ton of material was released to pretty much decode every single line (not only of this part of the story but all important parts). I really would love to quote all of the material but I have the feeling it will be no good meaning you dismiss Final Fantasy VII as it is (something we cannot do, fanon is nothing to canon such as the car will always be there in my explanation, you could say I am a fan of our world but the canon is decided by nature or God or whatever you believe in, lets not really get religious here; Square Enix thankfully is not God but still the creators of their own world and legally and intellectually have the right to say what is and they did it enough), which has a certain meaning for the Promised Land, who the main character is, which world it is on, Cloud's identity, the love issues, Sephiroth and everything in itself. Again, as someone who just wants to clarify things that exist I would like to show you all segments but I see you don't want to so I guess we leave it like this for good. It is just unfortunate if you ask me.

But as it is now I just leave it how it is.

Canonicity is nothing to be seen but something officially and objective such as the spinning of our world, fully and legally right as decided by those who intellectually and legally own it. What you mean is called fanon. I also just say what the owners and creators say and intended and they never said such a thing for real otherwise I would also say it, but they did not (a varying canon can never exist, optional sequences have nothing to do with an actual canonicity, true is what is intended to count) really as it would even contradict their intention that has been officially stated and being shown multiple times in their officially published Compilation material. Square Enix extended the world to officially explain it more and the original game itself also already said what was intended, such as Motomu Toriyama had the task to "write the romantic context of Cloud and Aerith" and Tetsuya Nomura said, all answers are actually in the game, Cait Sith's prophecy which Aerith did want to hear, Aerith wanting Cloud to be jealous of Zack, Aerith having a spirtual bond to Cloud (their consciousnesses/souls being connected), Cloud rating something connected to Aerith as his personal Promised Land, et cetera. Don't get me wrong. There is something between Cloud and Tifa. Just not the true thing and this is how it is. Tifa (who actually knew Cloud not half as much as people think because he was a shy nd also arrogant kid who stayed away from her as long as her friends were around) is for Cloud what Rose's husband in Titanic was while Aerith is Jack. And Dismantled, the Ultimania Omega, Final Fantasy VII (in which those things also have been mentioned) and all officially published material from Square is more than just a "horrible source". Even if the creators would ask a fan to write something for them and make it official it wouldn't matter because they can make it canon. It is really that simple. People nowadays are misunderstanding how canonicity is decided, especially in DBZ were they often think it is just canonical when it is made by Akira Toriyama and that is not right. It is not canonical or non-canonical when I want to, it is, when it is. A single fan cannot do anything about that as they don't own anything (including me, of course - e.g. Square Enix decides to make Sephiroth fat and I would totally hate it and wish it to not be canon but I couldn't do anything about it being canon). I cannot just ignore official things and then claim them to be wrong because I can't decide that just as everything I dislike about Final Fantasy (which does exist, I don't think it is perfect) still exists canonically. Or as some Square Enix employee said, he honestly doesn't believe that people truly understand Final Fantasy VII:

Rumor: Square Enix Tells Final Fantasy VII Fans to "Let it Go"... Should We?

This is a line that is right in many ways.
And this is no wonder by ignoring half of the things. Nothing personal to you. I mean that in general. You already said it right: "They also loved each other ..." This part is right and the official and intended context shows how much. Just as Cloud's identity crisis has nothing to do with another person beng created by a dissociative personality disorder but by a part of his mind being seperated, isolated and supressed after being pushed in his subconsciousness as a result of his confabulation where it tries to wake him up just as parts of us in our subconsciousness also try to deal with our problems but it has nothing to do with really two actual people, so two seperate consciousnesses like you and me but "other" or "true" more metaphorically like we all can change and "not be ourselves" (still Cloud had much of his normal character as the game and Ultimania shows and what Aerith liked).

"Although in the beginning, Aerith felt close to Cloud is because he behaves like Zack, her interest in Cloud himself grows and she is attracted to him."
Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega, pg. 31, published by Square Enix

I rather rep you and tell you this way before starting a long conversation as it at least shows some respect to the person.
Hopefully this explains my thoughts. I don't have anything against you thinking it, everyone thinks many things in life. I just differ because there is an actual truth - such as you would never say anything against a blond guy being the main character in FFVII even though someone else also could have another opinion. Just as when I claim no car to drive on the street while it does and I just run across the street. It doesn't matter what I say, there is a car and I am wrong, plus it could be a danger for me. Opposite example: I also defend Tifa for as much as exists and is intended for her.
We won't really come far in any further conversation, I believe.

These things aside, I hope you have a nice day (or evening?)!

>>> Loney Boob.
funny nickname..

But they weren't the first official world meetup! That's something I'll put in the wiki

Or were your wedding