Wolf Kanno
is a Level 99 Chocobo
Memento Mori
Site Contributor

Yeah, Beast is the best. And to be fair to Riku, he’s, what, 15? Who isn’t stupid at that age? Terra doesn’t get that as an excuse :P

No but really, one of the things I love about Sora and Riku’s dynamic in the first game is that it is very age-appropriate. You get so many games - JRPGs especially, where you get adult characters with adult perspective ghat are just younger because that sells. Sora and Riku are hormonal kids and they act like it. It’s so weird that even 17 years later, this is still such a novel concept for a video game

Let's continue that once I post my 999 pages treatment. Tell me when you are done with KHIII.

Urgh, using Wiki for a Square game.

There is am LOT of inconsistency regarding the guardian because it does not JUST require Ansem's power, as well as Ansem's existence is as mentioned full of narrative inconsistencies that one time say this and one time say that as he cannot be "gone" after KH2 since Riku flat out tells him in 3D as well as 3D at the same time not being the Ansem because there was not "revival" - which in itself is one of the problems (I would not even spoil you much because you know 3D and also know that the Ansem is supposed to have been time travelled but that is the problem; one thing implies it is "the present Ansem" and the next shows that it is not present Ansem blablablabla with one important KHIII scene again treating him like our Ansem - and the worst thing of all for me as I said earlier is that whenever he was actually killed it was not shown (talking about things excluding KHIII again)). And if you ask me it is VERY MUCH of a problem because it not only spits on the narrative when it comes to important characters but you also once more ignore what is there needed for the proper reunion (and one can hardly argue that his ego and his heart which is simply what he is was gone because that is what I was saying when I said he still lived on through Riku's help so establishing that everything important for Xehanort was destroyed would require an extra official explanation that once more would ignore rules but then they could at least say "well, Ansem was destroyed; he still existed but even though he still was there it was kinda enough for Xehanort even though he was literally missing his own original heart and let's just ignore the fact that not only Xehanort gets his own old body but also had a reset of his memories even though he had no idea about anything after BBS". I have no problem with Ansem "existing somehow as his own entity" as one sentence in KHIII COULD actually if they would have done something with it make this "pseudo-work" but it would still have the problem of Xehanort's consciousness and heart in his reunited body existing making one of them effectively a clone. Which is by the way another problem I have with the Heartless and Nobody stuff as both Heartless and Nobody are treated like "the person just incomplete" with KHII always treating the Nobody more like the person in a metaphorical sense. KHIII makes it exactly the other way around, which also makes no sense. But I will also elaborate on that in my treatment.
Btw. Ansem just got his body destroyed in KH1 which you describe as "firmly established". But the body is not all. As said, I do not interpret anything here. Otherwise I would have given myself all the answers here with the officially established stuff. But the problem here is I cannot tell you everything as you see and you know, neurotical and accurate as I am, I need my non-contradictiory, consistent and official things instead of "gäkdgöfjsglögjkrelksj okay, this is Kingdom Hearts". Non-speculative. I do also not really understand why you are not actually seeing how Ansem's living consciousness is still in Riku, not just something as reduced as you say he is. If he is his living consciousness, he is there. That is what we existentially are. if that is here, the instance to perceive reality and the sense of self, then the actually important thing for an entity's existence is given and we have that. If he says he will come back, that says enough about a person, its instance to perceive reality and itself, its intentions and that it in fact is not just some echo. He thinks, perceives, plans and acts. He tortures Riku, he wants to comes back (as in physically), he knows what is going on. Some parts of what you say do even read like you do not mean that anymore but others read different. It seems like you are kinda on the fence on what you mean with it. Maybe I wrote too much for you in my last two posts and that confused you. You have to tell me that if that is the case. I always write the entire thing I want to say so people have the information needed (or in this case, minus the spoiler) but very often they then bring up something I have already answered, no matter what we are talking about. If that is a moment of "geez, I cannot process that much at once, we need to talk slower about this" then you have to mention it. I lost a lot of people in conversations because of them not being able or unwilling to take EVERYTHING into consideration. I would like to say "I need to work on that" but I do that on purpose so people do not need to mention stuff I already know.

There is a lot more in your post I cannot spoil right now.

Riku in 3D has this half-assed dialogue with Ansem that is from the past and continues to talk to him like he is THE Ansem that is living in his heart, "blah, I locked you away, yet here you are", "Ansem, you are a part of my heart now!" and of course that is kinda rendered void through the very fact that KH3 ultimately shows that all of those guys were travelling through time but it still drives home the point of Ansem still being fused with Riku. I cannot say how "alive" he still is in 3D (and I have the feeling that Nomura-san practically only wanted to act like "oh this guy is the same" even though he literally is not but several things that I cannot tell you right now are telling me he thinks "as long as we have a character looking like that its fine, he's the same") but the stuff from before is just to much to be "anthropomorphic darkness that has no consciousness of a person". And I assure you 100% that it was not just "no living conscious instance of Ansem". As a matter of fact Ansem in KH3 says something to Riku that absolutely shows that the Ansem in Riku was alive. It kinda still makes no sense that then out of all people the one in KH3 says it but well, as said, KH is an inconsistency fest. Anyway - it would have even been better for the narrative if that was actually THE Ansem but seeing how Nomura-san does not care he probably really thinks that even though it is logically not the case, it might still be THE Ansem. To quote a person in a KH3D guide when he said "Xehanort can move back in time so he moves faster than light ... or negative speed ..." and that is what I actually am talking about what followed up: "... whatever." "Whatever" is really the only thing I can think at this point about WHATEVER topic regarding KH". Not the faster than light or negative speed thing, by the way. That is nonsense. I just liked his "... whatever".

And the Xehanort from the picture is from the movie I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry with Kevin James and Adam Sandler. For 10 years I always say "That's Xehanort!"

Your post makes me realize I have to elaborate more clear on this in my treatment.

So to tackle this here for the visitor message:

Right now I cannot remember if it is mentioned in any explanatory nature that would give MORE insight within the Ultimania Omega. But it would stand in direct contradiction with what is clearly established in the story anyway.
Where are you right?
Ansem died in KH1 by opening the door and getting eradicated by Kingdom Hearts itself.
The Ansem we see in Chain of Memories after DiZ's test at the beginning is Riku's darkness and he does not have a body.
BUT the Ansem is THE Ansem that actually died. I do not know if you mentioned his death in KH1 because you thought it was important for me but it actually was not.
Ansem fused with Riku's darkness. He follows this basic existential concept that is recurring in Japanese stories that as long as you in some way, shape or form live on somewhere you still are literally alive (even when not having your own body). Sephiroth follows this concept in OtWtaS which was then adapted in KH2 and renamed as "Cloud's darkness" instead of "all memories that have to do with me can regenerate my existential core", Final Fantasy X follows the same lore and stories like Nier also follow that principle. You know, the basic fantasy, sci-fi stuff of "as long as someone does not have his core destroyed or is linked to something or somebody he can return or as long as his soul still even without a body still manages to survive he can return, et cetera" There are many iterations of that, of course. I don't really think you necessarily disagreed with it because Chain of Memories kind of made it obvious.
Ansem in CoM in the finale makes it very clear that he is a living entity.
(The following dialogue is paraphrased by me as I know Chain of Memories primarily in Japanese and German)
*Riku wins the fight and strikes through Ansem*
Riku: "You're finished, Ansem!"
Ansem: "I doubt that. I am part of your heart's darkness. My shadow lives on.
I will return!"

There is not really much sense in this dialogue if it is not a living consciousness and it all only amounts to "I am your dark side, Riku. I will try to make you evil, later by returning". Also Mickey in KH2 directly states that Riku parted ways with him because "Xehanort's Heartless" STILL tortured Riku's heart.
Then there is the other thing: Riku, the moment he realizes he cannot beat Roxas without Xehanort's power, transforms and summons the Guardian. There is no way the Guardian, an entity that is in direct relation to THE Xehanort's influence would come if nothing of Xehanort would live on within Riku. This is by the way another inconsistency because of reasons I cannot state right now - everything will be told by me later - I don't think Riku should even be able to command the Guardian exactly because of Xehanort's influence (meaning he should be the only one to actually command him which is part of the inconsistencies I do not want to talk about right now) but in this case it at least shows that there is some direct relation to an entity that is living on (even if for no reason it doesn't do a thing as if its killed off, which again, cannot be the case for all the mentioned reasons and "locked away" would be unspectacular and not shown (and weird for the Reunion of Xehanort) as well as "killed" would not have been shown which is the reason why I am so mad that the story of the first Kingdom Hearts villain was treated like a piece of crap and obviously with the thought of "let's do this and that and Riku wins and accepts and that's enough" even though it is a joke for such a major character and explains nothing about what is actually going on).

And why is this guy the main villain?

https://www.bilder-upload.eu/bild-03...43435.png.html

You will have a lot to read with me always going back to the time problem and one thing that always bothered me is that they never actually established in the series that Ansem (KH1) was killed. Because he was either killed off-screen which already is an insult to itself for what was established or even better, he is still there, making the Xehanort reunion effectively impossibe. And before you mention KH2 with Riku looking like him and losing form after Ansem the Wise damages the Artificial Kingdom Hearts and him accepting darkness during the Roxas battle and all - believe me, the series points at both, Ansem still being here within Riku's heart (furthermore supported by 3D) as well as him effectively being killed off-screen within Riku's heart.

It is SO frustrating.

I've taken a look at it after starting on the middle portion I mentioned. It's funny how some of the stuff you did in that bled into my interpretation of those characters. Some things are still way different, however, but it's still really fun to look at those differences.

So I’ve recently reread the Jack and Benny thing you write for me back when we did the story idea exchange. It’s still very amusing.

The thing was not a headcanon suggestion of mine personally (as you probably understood anyway, maybe you just meant the word "your" as in "what you mentioned"), it was just some crap other people came up with because Riku said it to Ansem in 3D (I know the Ultimania stuff but some people like to use the 3D dialogue after that as answer which is virtually useless to me as long as there is no implication of actual intention to say "btw. guys this is also meant to corelate to the other thing" - and it would still be problematic when it comes to Ansem himself). I would never waste my time with such a thing if there was no official "and because of that" behind it, which it so far is not. As said, I find it already contradictory enough that Ansem can use the Keyblade (or was that what you mean with the suggestion? you can see how exact to every little detail I am, making it even worse for something like Kingdom Hearts then ... gah!) when he is using Riku's body as one possibly, and they surely would, using the excuse well, Riku has a heart, too" would not change the fact that an unworthy heart controls the body and this would seem to be a weird loophole that a Keyblade which deemed you unworthy would be like "well, you are not worthy but the one you control is, so you're fine".

But that's good old Kingdom Hearts. And I would even accept that if it were an official thing because it would not be one of the greater inconsistencies. You also mentioned Sora being whole which is another totally sloppily defined topic that has begun in KH2 and is a topic that was sort of tackled in KH with the whole Roxas, Xion thing and Sora directly comparing their lives to Ansem and Xemnas. It is a whole other can of worms and makes a super neurotical, analysing, especially psychologically experienced person like me so frustrated because those sloppy or totally missing or contradictory definitions within the lore that consist of real life and fictional logic and "we do not know when to use what or do not even care or use nothing or no heart but hearts sometimes but actually hearts always" (and that's not even the big deal, I was merely using the heart thing to show that this is such a weird thing - retcons would be okay but even they can lead to inconsistencies and it also shows that they do not really care about anything at all if they change the lore every minute without caring about what makes sense) ... well, the sentence was pretty long so let me just finish it with "that is a problem for me".

The worst contender except for their implications about Heartless and Nobodies is the whole time concept which he used relatively neaty in 3D and now it is basically not even said when which concept is meant (and he used all 3 already: Timeless River in KH2 has a Consistency Paradox, Chi introduces "Worldlines" which are obviously supposed to be timelines and Young Xehanort used a Bootstrap Paradox Closed Timeloop with the latter concept being the only one he should have stuck to). A lot of them should not be used for certain situations from a causality perspective, others that "could" maybe be used are bad because they destroy the narration on a "what does it matter as long as the same named character is here" perspective. The real thing is missing establishment when he wants to use what. If you actually happen to read my treatment you will see that I mntion that ad infinitum because it left an unsatisfied taste in my mouth for the last 4 hours. Gladly the fairytale made it great enough for me. The story freak in me and the neurotic scream who also invest passion in a story that is more than just "whatever, just writ something" scream though.

I mean, lore-wise it does not even make sense to say Sora and Xehanort have Nobodies that also are Nobodies of Ventus and Terra. If the Nobody is the body fragment then there is no need to adress that he is the Nobody of two people. Xehanort ist a bit different because he literally transformed Terra's body into a Final Fantasy villain by giving him white hair when he was in control of that body but that is exactly what I am talking about: Call those guys only Nobodies from the people that are actively using the body. It was Terra's body originally, so I understand what people mean but that guy was Xehanort with memory loss. And in case of Sora it is even easier because it was Sora's body all along. And here I think they just should not have given Roxas Ventus' looks as it makes no sense that suddenly the Nobody - the body fragment - has his looks determined by the heart of a person whose body has nothing to do with the body it resides in.

But as said - that is only to vent a bit with the whacky non-definitions. It is not to actually get answers. If there would be ACTUAL answers, not some pseudo-explanations then I would not need to confuse and hurt myself any turn like a Pokémon.