GF forgotten ability

Printable View

03-02-2007, 05:56 AM
Serapy

GF forgotten ability

Hi, I've tried to search about this discussion on the forum but no luck, represent me what have I missed. Anyway, here it is:

You know the part when Squall and other party members have found out that they did forgot about their specifc memories in the past, that's why they didn't recognize each other after they have grow up. Was that exactly because of GF equipment? Or they just assumed that as the only reason to blame because they can't find anything else to blame? I'm not sure IF every party member used GF for first time which caused them to forget about some sorts of past, it would be a plot hole if all of them didn't use GF at that time, right?

If they actually forget, how the hell did Irvine remember? He was the one who brought it up. What made him remember again? He could have said similar messages to Squall like "Hm, I don't know but you look/sound quite familiar" as if he actually remember. Then again, every one of them started to remember again.

Was this some conspiracy plan created by Ultimecia? Did she screw them up so they couldn't remember anything exactly in the past in order to get better chances of succeeding in becoming a ruler? Why GF forgotten? I'm sure this GF forgotten ability is important to be reminded, any gardens never mentioned any of it in the first place...
03-02-2007, 09:05 AM
Yuriev's ghost

Game answer: Equiping GFs make people lose their long term memories. Squall, Quistis, Zell and Selphie don't remember anything because they used GFs while growing up in order to train. Irvine did not, and thus remembers everything from when they are children. He doesn't say anything until disk 2 because "no one else remembered".

Real Answer: Square needed to work out a plausible reason as to why Squall and co. wouldn't remember events from 10 years ago. When they couldn't think of one, they made up some stupid crap about GFs making people forget and put one line in the database in a half-assed attempt at foreshadowing. The result is the most ridiculous, confused, unnatural, deus ex machina plot twist to ever grace the series.

Hope that answers your question.
03-02-2007, 01:25 PM
Frostwake

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuriev's ghost

Real Answer: Square needed to work out a plausible reason as to why Squall and co. wouldn't remember events from 10 years ago. When they couldn't think of one, they made up some stupid crap about GFs making people forget and put one line in the database in a half-assed attempt at foreshadowing. The result is the most ridiculous, confused, unnatural, deus ex machina plot twist to ever grace the series.

Hope that answers your question.

Here we go again... it isnt any worse than most FF plot twists actually... Whats wrong and confusing about it? They used GFs, Irvine did not, what else? Thats it... I dont get this FF8 bashing
03-02-2007, 01:51 PM
Yuriev's ghost

Confused != confusing. It's confused because it brings about various continuity errors with the cast, which are explained by convenient or incredibly unlikely events. That is, Selphie junctioning a GF as a child (which, like everything surrounding the plot twist, is never mentioned again) and Irvine keeping his mouth shut (or even giving the slightest indication that he had known them previously) for contrived reasons.
03-03-2007, 01:52 AM
rubah

I don't find it all that implausible, really.
03-03-2007, 06:46 AM
Marshall Banana

Irvine didn't make a very good impression on Squall and the others when they first met, and he became an outsider for a while. It makes perfect sense to me that Irvine waited until he'd earned their trust before mentioning the orphanage and their brief childhood together.

Besides, unlikely connections between protagonists/far-fetched plot twists go together with Final Fantasy like brownies go with ice cream! FFVIII was just being a Final Fantasy. =O
03-03-2007, 08:31 AM
Yuriev's ghost

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall banana

Irvine didn't make a very good impression on Squall and the others when they first met, and he became an outsider for a while. It makes perfect sense to me that Irvine waited until he'd earned their trust before mentioning the orphanage and their brief childhood together.

Revealing pivotal information like that isn't going to ostracized him anymore. Indeed, if there was some animosity between him and the SeeD an ice-breaker like that should improve things. Either way, there isn't an excuse good enough for poor story telling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall banana

Besides, unlikely connections between protagonists/far-fetched plot twists go together with Final Fantasy like brownies go with ice cream! FFVIII was just being a Final Fantasy. =O

I don't think people have a problem with the actual plot twist so much as the way it is revealed.
03-03-2007, 10:21 AM
Serapy

But why does GF have such an ability that could make you forget something only when you equip it for the first time? I don't know how it exactly works. What would happen if Irvine first-equipped GF like what others did? Would they act like nothing happened and moved on? Bad or good?

The gardens NEVER mentioned any of this either, like they didn't even tell Squall and others about the bad impact of equipping GF.

The gardens are a part of ultimecia's plan, right? GF as well?
03-03-2007, 02:58 PM
Mo-Nercy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serapy

The gardens NEVER mentioned any of this either, like they didn't even tell Squall and others about the bad impact of equipping GF.

I haven't played in ages so I might be wrong on this, but I think someone (Quistis. I think) at some point rejected the whole GF-making-you-forget-stuff thing as a legend made up by the naysayers. It was because of this that only Balamb's SeeDs and students were allowed to use them. Galbadian students (such as Irvine) weren't.. and the rest we know.
03-03-2007, 06:26 PM
Marshall Banana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuriev's ghost

Revealing pivotal information like that isn't going to ostracized him anymore. Indeed, if there was some animosity between him and the SeeD an ice-breaker like that should improve things. Either way, there isn't an excuse good enough for poor story telling.

I can't help thinking that everyone would just shrug it off as Irvine making up nonsense, but who's to say? It's not like he'd shown much loyalty to them at first. He was more than willing to leave them in the desert prison and save his own skin, for example. Not to mention, Irvine must've been puzzled that none of his old friends seemed to recognize him until he'd spent enough time with them to realize how heavily they rely on GFs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuriev's ghost

I don't think people have a problem with the actual plot twist so much as the way it is revealed.

=O
I think it was fitting for Irvine to deliver the plot twist and when he did. Quistis, Zell, Seifer, Squall, and Selphie had already found each other (Rinoa, too, if you count her separate ties to Squall). Irvine had kind of been the missing link in the chain, and the characters were about to take on Edea - someone who was a significant part in their lives during their time together - for the last time. There was no reason not to have Irvine fill the gaps in their memories, too. He hadn't contributed much else up to that point, anyway.
03-04-2007, 01:17 AM
Yuriev's ghost

Quote:

I can't help thinking that everyone would just shrug it off as Irvine making up nonsense, but who's to say? It's not like he'd shown much loyalty to them at first. He was more than willing to leave them in the desert prison and save his own skin, for example.

It was after the desert prison that he reveals what he knew anyway. I don’t recall Irvine doing anything to redeem himself (not sure whether he actually needed redeeming though. He wasn’t so much leaving to save himself as he was under orders to save Rinoa) between then and Trabia.

Quote:

Not to mention, Irvine must've been puzzled that none of his old friends seemed to recognize him until he'd spent enough time with them to realize how heavily they rely on GFs.

I don’t see why Irvine wouldn’t have know that Balamb uses GFs. He certainly knew enough about GFs to realize their side-effects.

Quote:

=O
I think it was fitting for Irvine to deliver the plot twist and when he did. Quistis, Zell, Seifer, Squall, and Selphie had already found each other (Rinoa, too, if you count her separate ties to Squall). Irvine had kind of been the missing link in the chain, and the characters were about to take on Edea - someone who was a significant part in their lives during their time together - for the last time. There was no reason not to have Irvine fill the gaps in their memories, too. He hadn't contributed much else up to that point, anyway.

The plot twist hadn’t been foreshadowed nearly enough at the point in which it was revealed to stand any chance of seeming natural. There was a few flashbacks of Squall as a child that could have been anywhere (and indeed, imply that he had a family due to his use of the word ‘sis’) and that’s about it. GFs are only mentioned in relation to memory loss during one line in the Balamb database. This is why the whole thing comes off as one massive “deus ex machine” moment.
03-04-2007, 03:58 AM
Marshall Banana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuriev's ghost

It was after the desert prison that he reveals what he knew anyway. I don’t recall Irvine doing anything to redeem himself (not sure whether he actually needed redeeming though. He wasn’t so much leaving to save himself as he was under orders to save Rinoa) between then and Trabia.

Well, depending on which party you place him in, Irvine helps Selphie blow the Missile Base to smithereens (>=D) or helps Squall protect Balamb Garden. He also helps Selphie pull off the Garden Festival. He isn't really redeeming himself, I think, just asserting himself as part of the team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuriev's ghost

I don’t see why Irvine wouldn’t have know that Balamb uses GFs. He certainly knew enough about GFs to realize their side-effects.

No one knew for certain what the side effects were. Memory loss was just speculation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuriev's ghost

The plot twist hadn’t been foreshadowed nearly enough at the point in which it was revealed to stand any chance of seeming natural. There was a few flashbacks of Squall as a child that could have been anywhere (and indeed, imply that he had a family due to his use of the word ‘sis’) and that’s about it. GFs are only mentioned in relation to memory loss during one line in the Balamb database. This is why the whole thing comes off as one massive “deus ex machine” moment.

Yeah, that's true. The only other foreshadowing I can think of is Irvine's line on the train to Dollet, "Maybe it's fate?" I don't mind this, though.