Question regarding Vayne (spoilers)

Well, I'm at the point in the game where you reach Mt. Bur-Omisace to speak with Gran Kiltias and so far everything's been peachy as far as the story goes, but the past few scenes involving Vayne have be a bit confused.

For starters, why exactly was Vayne called back to Archadia by the Senate and Gramis? Was it because his methods were too violent in the "taming" of Dalmasca and the Resistance? Also, when Gramis and Vayne are talking why do they speak as if the House Solidor is about to be over? If I'm not mistaken, Vayne and Larsa still bear the Solidor name so wouldn't they just take Gramis' place? I don't really see how the House Solidor is in any peril for rule of Archadia...

And on the subject of Gramis' assassination; for one thing why did Vayne kill him and secondly why don't any of the Judges (besides that one woman) oppose his actions? Sure, they're loyal to Archadia but Vayne didn't seem the least bit worried that people would find out he assassinated his own father.

It'd be really helpful if these things could be cleared up. Maybe I'm just looking at these events from the wrong perspective and not getting the big picture.

Thank you, :)

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For starters, why exactly was Vayne called back to Archadia by the Senate and Gramis? Was it because his methods were too violent in the "taming" of Dalmasca and the Resistance?

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Its because he put Ghis in charge of the Leviathan, and he deployed the 8th fleet. Because the 8th fleet was destroyed, the Senate ordered him to return and be accountable for his actions. You cant just go blowing up massive Archadian airships without getting into some kind of trouble. The Senate wanted to accentuate this trouble because they fear Vayne, and want him to lose his power.

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Also, when Gramis and Vayne are talking why do they speak as if the House Solidor is about to be over? If I'm not mistaken, Vayne and Larsa still bear the Solidor name so wouldn't they just take Gramis' place? I don't really see how the House Solidor is in any peril for rule of Archadia...

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Im not sure exactly, but I think that its because of the Senate. The Senate would not hesitate to kill Vayne, as part of their quest for power. There is a lot of chaos going on as well...

I dont think they are really going on about it being over.

"And so house Solidor lives on", shows how they will be ruthless and cunning in order to preserve house Solidor in times of turmoil. Vayne and Gramis both seem interested in the history and future of house Solidor.

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And on the subject of Gramis' assassination; for one thing why did Vayne kill him

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Vayne wanted complete power of Archadia. Killing Gramis killed two birds with one stone. The emperror was no more, allowing Vayne to ascend, and the Senate was framed and arrested. The path was now clear for Vayne to become Dynast-King.

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and secondly why don't any of the Judges (besides that one woman) oppose his actions?

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Firstly, Bergan (the big judge with the cool head thing), is fully supportive of Vayne's military tactics. He agrees that in tough times, brutal and ruthless tactics are the most effective. The other Judges (Gabranth and Zargabaath) are racked with indecision and fear of the consequences of disobeying Vayne. If they were to attack Vayne, they would simply be executed. So they just want to hold onto their positions, enabling them to peform other important duties eg. protect Larsa. + Gabranth has his own special reasons.

Only Drace revolts, because she has a deep hate for Vayne. This goes back to her blaming him for the departure of Judge Zecht, and the murder of his two brothers. She sees him as far too ruthless, and would much prefer Larsa as ruler.

Vayne isnt worried because there is no proof. He is also confident that the Judges will obey him, and say nothing. He can defend himself well anyway and he has the backing of the troops, as he automatically became Emperror with Gramis' death.

Hope that helped. :)


The scene with Drace's death is one of my favourite in FFXII. But if you didnt fully undertand what was happening, then it must not have been so enjoyable.

Vayne isnt worried because there is no proof.

No proof? Vayne was the only one in the room with Gramis when he died. Unless the Judges are in so much denial as to think Gramis died of natural causes on the spot. Maybe I just misunderstood you, sorry. lol

Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed the scenes. I just wasn't 100% sure of Vayne's intentions and the effects of them. Everything else I kinda had a broad understanding of. I was a little thrown off by Drace's remark about that one Judge being "inhuman" because of his strength. After he chunked her across the room he let out a sort of beastly "growl"? Interesting...

Thank you for your help! That clears things up a lot more.

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Originally Posted by Lunatic Pandora

Vayne isnt worried because there is no proof.

No proof? Vayne was the only one in the room with Gramis when he died. Unless the Judges are in so much denial as to think Gramis died of natural causes on the spot. Maybe I just misunderstood you, sorry. lol

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But Gramis was a very sick man, who was going to die anyway. Also, only the judges new the circumstances, noone else. To the general population, his death would have made sense.

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Everything else I kinda had a broad understanding of. I was a little thrown off by Drace's remark about that one Judge being "inhuman" because of his strength. After he chunked her across the room he let out a sort of beastly "growl"? Interesting...

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You'll find out soon...;)

I confirm what Steiner's said, if you still have some doubts. Good explanation.

Thanks so much Vivisteiner.

But when you say "only the Judges knew the circumstances", do you mean only the Judges knew about Gramis' ill condition or that they knew about his assassination by Vayne?

Only the Judges really knew about Gramis' assasination by Vayne. And even they didnt have any concrete evidence - just strong suspicions.

Vayne would have simply said that when he arrived, he found Gramis poisoned. It would be relatively easy for him to get away with it, since he had the element of suprise and was able to plan and perhaps bribe, as well as him having new found power. Those going against him would be going against the law, and thus would be executed. (As Drace was)


About Gramis' ill condition. Its not really known how well known it is. Certainly the Judges and the Senate know of it, but whether the people knew is unknown. My earlier statement about Gramis being sick, has probably little to do with what happened though, since it was a poisoning and not a supposed death of natural causes.

Oh okay, thanks again. I'm now fully aware of what's going on "behind the scenes" in Archadia. For some reason, it's always the scenes involving Judges or the Senate that start to get me confused. To me, it's like they'll say one thing but act on it differently that I'd expect.

I appreciate your help! :D

Hehe, anytime.

Im bored enough already. ;)

Also, Archades was like the Roman Empire, i.e. the Senate had governing powers and could take Vayne or Gramis out. Just like Caligula or Nero, Vayne thought answering to the Senate was too much of a burden and disbanded it with the first excuse he found.

Yeah, I think the main reason I'm experiencing confusion with pieces of this story is because History and Government were never my strong subjects in school. :eep: Hahah