The Snape Question (Spoilers)

this IS linked to the Deathly Hallows thread, but on a more specific subject

so do you think that Snape is a traitor or was the ending planned?
Upon reading Book 6 again, i took what happened in the end a different way. Instead of Dumbledore saying 'Severus....please' as pleading for mercy, it occured to me that he may be pleading for Snape to kill Dumbledore to spare him of the pain caused by the 'Potion.' Also, in the time that Snape appeared, he may have recieved orders from Dumbledore via Legilimency.

So here's the question, where do YOU think Snapes loyalties lie?

If I'm to be honest, I think his loyalties, ultimately, lie with the Order.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mabolle at Fool's Gold

Snape was on Dumbledore's side (as has been the general consensus in books 2~5), and he killed Dumbledore not because he wanted to, but because he had to. Remember, he had taken the Unbreakable Oath, and if neither he nor Draco would kill Dumbledore, Snape would die. Regardless of what his motives were when taking the oath, Snape probably realised that out of a scenario where Snape dies and Dumbledore is killed by some other Death Eater (he was outnumbered and very weak anyway) and a scenario where Dumbledore dies and Snape survives, the latter would be preferable.

---

I think Dumbledore probably knew about the oath. When Harry reports on how he heard Snape discussing the plot with Malfoy, offering to help, Dumbledore says that nothing about Harry's message is new or alarming to him and reminds Harry that he probably knows a lot more about the situation than Harry does. Snape couldn't NOT help Malfoy, right, because of the oath, so the plan had to be at least attempted, if not carried through. Snape's protective behavior toward Malfoy in the end also speaks in his favor, I think. I mean, the oath concerned governing Malfoy through the task Voldemort gave him, protecting him, if I remember correctly. Now the deed's been done, the task is over, so he shouldn't be obliged to help Malfoy anymore, should he? Yet he makes sure that Malfoy gets out of the castle safely before anyone else despite the fact that Voldemort probably wants Malfoy dead or punished somehow at this point, having failed his task.

I honestly believe that his loyalty lies with Dumbledore. I would say why right not, but I have a theory that I am gonna post about an hour before I sign off to go get Deathly Hallows.

i'm not sure. on the one hand, dumbledore was always very smart and good with knowing people, but he admitted himself to making mistakes.

Dumbledore knew about the oath, also, if you read very carefully and think of the text in real life, Snape would seem to hesistate. Also, Dumbledore(and just about everyone in Hogwarts) that Malfoy is easily pushed by his temper and does not like to be helped, so when he is saying he can help him, perhaps this was a ploy to get Malfoy to kill him?

I am almost completely convinced that Snape's loyalties lie with the Order and have been ever since reading HBP.

i hate snape's guts and attitude but i honestly hope his loyalty lies with dumbledore. For that past 6 books, they've been repeating on snape's loyalty to dumbledore and now he's just gonna become a traitor? i think hope it's all planned though the sacrifice was big.

I agree with most of the reasons already explained (although I don't believe Dumbledore's pleads for mercy had anything to do with being weak from the potion; I believe he merely though Snape's life was more valuable than his own).

Dumbledore likes to believe the best in people, but he is not stupid. Harry believes that Dumbledore trusts Snape because after telling Voldemort about the prophesy, Snape rushed to Dumbledore to apologize. I do not think that this alone is enough to convince Dumbledore of Snape's loyalties. There is something else, and I believe that this information will leave no doubts. Also, I think it's interesting that Rowling refuses to announce what Snape's patronus and boggart forms are. Apparently it is too revealing of his character.

DUMBLEDOR WASNT STOOPID!
he knew what was going to happen that night! my personal opinion is that the reason why snape killed him was because
1. the unbreakble vow
2. because of malfoy
3. to help harry realise his goal!
what doesnt kill you only makes you stonger right!

Good points made, but I believe Snapes loyalties still reside with Voldemort.

I think he's with Voldemort. Dumbledore trusts the good in people too much. Rather that's a weakness or not is up for debate, but I think it led to his death. With Sirius and Harry's parents gone, Dumbledore would not easily throw his life away, being the last true adult protection he had. Dumbledore cares more for Harry than Snape and Malfoy combined, and I can't see him being like "Okay, let's leave Harry unprotected and on his own and kill me."

Yes, but for what reason do you believe this? Aside from his generally cruel demeanor, everything questionable Snape does has a valid explanation. We only see Snape (like every other character), through Harry's eyes. Until we're able to see what Dumbledore saw, I can't side with Harry. He tends to be wrong very often.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ouch!

Yes, but for what reason do you believe this? Aside from his generally cruel demeanor, everything questionable Snape does has a valid explanation. We only see Snape (like every other character), through Harry's eyes. Until we're able to see what Dumbledore saw, I can't side with Harry. He tends to be wrong very often.

---

A good example of Harry being wrong about Snape would be most of Book 1. He was convinced Snape wanted the Philosopher's Stone, while it was really Quirrell that sought it for Voldemort, or that Snape really wanted to kill him during the Quidditch match based on what Hermione and Ron told him.

Or another example, probably more subtle, is at the end of Book 3, after Harry is doing his potion exams. He's certain Snape gave him a 0, but when he gets his results, he did pass the class.

Harry has had a bad opinion of Snape ever since he joined Hogwarts, and as Ouch! pointed out, since we do see the characters and events through Harry's eyes, we're never quite sure what are Snape's intentions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LunarWeaver

I think he's with Voldemort. Dumbledore trusts the good in people too much. Rather that's a weakness or not is up for debate, but I think it led to his death. With Sirius and Harry's parents gone, Dumbledore would not easily throw his life away, being the last true adult protection he had. Dumbledore cares more for Harry than Snape and Malfoy combined, and I can't see him being like "Okay, let's leave Harry unprotected and on his own and kill me."

---

Think about it. Dumbledore valued Snape and Harry's lives way more than his own. Harry is the one prophesized to vanquish the Dark Lord and Snape has a close connection to the Dark Lord as a Deatheater. Not killing Dumbledore would have meant Snape's death. With Snape's death, there goes everything the Order worked for in establishing a spy amongst the Deatheaters and a close contact with Voldemort.

Dumbledore's protection on the Dursley house was going to be removed with Harry becoming an adult in the Wizarding world anyway. It's finally time for Harry to take up his duty, but he won't be alone. Dumbledore made the right bargain I think, and for all we know he was dying on top of the tower anyway from the potion.