Theories based on Chrono Cross

If Ulti=Schala and TD=Griever then it explain a lot of what happens in the end.
Ulti has been junctioned to Griever all the time.It was the intention of her possessor to give Griever to her.That way she would forget about
everything.
She just draw Griever from Squall like when we draw GF from people.
Her possessor wannas to junction her to griever to prevent her from telling Squall and Company things about the past.
When she is about to die she starts to remember things and say the last lines to our friends.
These lines are about remembering ones childhood and things like that.
They aren´t menacing suggesting she was not possessed anymore.
But our characters keep attacking her without knowing it.

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

If Ulti=Schala and TD=Griever then it explain a lot of what happens in the end.

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IF is the big word, and here's the thing, Ulti!= Schala. At all. Schala is a young girl who was against her mother's greed for more and more power, and Ultimecia is a crazed sorceress who desires ultimate power.

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Ulti has been junctioned to Griever all the time.

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Which is why they make a big deal about her junctioning herself to Griever, right?

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It was the intention of her possessor to give Griever to her.That way she would forget about
everything.
She just draw Griever from Squall like when we draw GF from people.
Her possessor wannas to junction her to griever to prevent her from telling Squall and Company things about the past.

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Shouldn't her possessor be able to do that in the first place?

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When she is about to die she starts to remember things and say the last lines to our friends.
These lines are about remembering ones childhood and things like that.
They aren´t menacing suggesting she was not possessed anymore.
But our characters keep attacking her without knowing it.

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Actually, her lines are basically classic last words. "I may fall now, but consider your own childhoods, and how long ago they were, and how you've been affected by time too, eventually you'll succumb as well."

FE, There's one major fatal flaw of your theory about CC and FF8. The theme of FF8 is unchanging fate. The theme, the very concept of CT and CC is that one CAN change fate, and that different decisions different places can actually influence the direction of time. Time is fightable in CT/CC. Not so in FF8.

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Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut

There may have been a "real" Griever that existed in stories that Squall had known about, but the only suggestion offered in-game is that it is a creature that Squall conceived of in his own mind, as Scan tells us that in Squall's mind, Griever is the strongest GF:

"Griever In Squall's mind, the strongest GF. Through Ultimecia's power, continues fighting without vanishing."

Further, Ultimecia's Witch Embodiment powers granted her the ability to reach into other's minds and pull things out (as she often displays when completely removing a character's stock of a certain type of Spell). In the case of Griever, she simply manifested the thoughts she pulled from Squall's mind regarding what he believed to be the most powerful being in existence. This would be a great strategical move on Ultimecia's part. This is made even more plausible when examining what the japanese version has Ultimecia say:

Ultimecia: Your feelings, I shall summon the most powerful of things [from them]! The more strongly you feel, that will be what shall torment you. Fufu.

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All of the stories are all the same; bad,evil or villians like ulti are a threat or menice in the beggining of the story but in the end when the villian is defeated people will realize that the one they just defeated or killed was actually a kind person... when ulti was defeated some of her
memories were recovered and she said some words before she died "to... our... friends..."
I think she wants to say more to the group but her body just can't keep living....

hmmmmm do you think ulti was also possessed by someone?

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Originally Posted by enigma1234

All of the stories are all the same; bad,evil or villians like ulti are a threat or menice in the beggining of the story but in the end when the villian is defeated people will realize that the one they just defeated or killed was actually a kind person...

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Xande and Dark Cloud weren't kind people. Zemus/ Zeromus wasn't a kind person. Exdeath wasn't a kind person. Kefka wasn't a nice person. Sephiroth was not a nice person. The precedent is for not nice final villians in FF.

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when ulti was defeated some of her
memories were recovered and she said some words before she died "to... our... friends..."

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Recovered her memories? Evidence, si vous plait.
And she never said "to our friends" in her final words.

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I think she wants to say more to the group but her body just can't keep living....

hmmmmm do you think ulti was also possessed by someone?

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No. There's nothing to suggest this. Ultimecia was the one possessing people. They wouldn't have a big reveal that someone's been possessed like they did with Edea, then have their possessor be a possessee without explicitly revealing it. It would make for an incomplete plot.

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Originally Posted by Ryushikaze

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Originally Posted by enigma1234

All of the stories are all the same; bad,evil or villians like ulti are a threat or menice in the beggining of the story but in the end when the villian is defeated people will realize that the one they just defeated or killed was actually a kind person...

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Xande and Dark Cloud weren't kind people. Zemus/ Zeromus wasn't a kind person. Exdeath wasn't a kind person. Kefka wasn't a nice person. Sephiroth was not a nice person.

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Niether was The Emperor, Garland, or Yu Yevon.

*snip*
[foa]Shut up, edlalala. If you can't say anything nice, don't even open your trap. -- foa[/foa]

I like how FE's theories have absolutely no logic in them, whatsoever.

[leeza]This post has nothing to do with the topic at hand and should never have posted. ~ Leeza[/leeza]

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Originally Posted by Babyboko

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Originally Posted by Ryushikaze

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Originally Posted by enigma1234

All of the stories are all the same; bad,evil or villians like ulti are a threat or menice in the beggining of the story but in the end when the villian is defeated people will realize that the one they just defeated or killed was actually a kind person...

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Xande and Dark Cloud weren't kind people. Zemus/ Zeromus wasn't a kind person. Exdeath wasn't a kind person. Kefka wasn't a nice person. Sephiroth was not a nice person.

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Niether was The Emperor, Garland, or Yu Yevon.

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Garland was just confused.

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Originally Posted by AOp

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Originally Posted by Babyboko

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Originally Posted by Ryushikaze

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Originally Posted by enigma1234

All of the stories are all the same; bad,evil or villians like ulti are a threat or menice in the beggining of the story but in the end when the villian is defeated people will realize that the one they just defeated or killed was actually a kind person...

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Xande and Dark Cloud weren't kind people. Zemus/ Zeromus wasn't a kind person. Exdeath wasn't a kind person. Kefka wasn't a nice person. Sephiroth was not a nice person.

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Niether was The Emperor, Garland, or Yu Yevon.

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Garland was just confused.

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He was draining an entire planet of life so he could rule over another one. How is that "just confused?"

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Originally Posted by Ryushikaze

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Originally Posted by AOp

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Originally Posted by Babyboko

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Originally Posted by Ryushikaze

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Originally Posted by enigma1234

All of the stories are all the same; bad,evil or villians like ulti are a threat or menice in the beggining of the story but in the end when the villian is defeated people will realize that the one they just defeated or killed was actually a kind person...

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Xande and Dark Cloud weren't kind people. Zemus/ Zeromus wasn't a kind person. Exdeath wasn't a kind person. Kefka wasn't a nice person. Sephiroth was not a nice person.

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Niether was The Emperor, Garland, or Yu Yevon.

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Garland was just confused.

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He was draining an entire planet of life so he could rule over another one. How is that "just confused?"

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I meant Garland of FFI. But Yeah Garland of FFIX was pretty mean too.

Griever is not actually a GF; the translation was a bit inaccurate, and I recall hearing (though through no reliable source, so it could be BS) that the English translation was rushed. Griever is actually supposed to be FF8's answer to the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man: Ultimecia searched Squall's mind for the ultimate killing machine and found Griever.

Subsequent foreign translations for the European versions of the game reflected this, as in Ulti's line "Soyez victimes de votre imaginations!" ("Be the victims of your own imaginations!")

It's been a while since I played the French version, but as I said, I am 100% sure that Ultimecia conjured Griever, because since when do all-powerful Sorceresses need to junction GF anyway? Rinoa does because she's only JUST become one, and Edea has to because she's supposedly lost all her powers by that point anyway.

I thought Edea has the GF before being defeated.
You are a genious Reload Psi.
You gave me the proof I needed.
Now that I think about it,why would Edea need a GF anyway?
She don´t uses it against our friends.And she is a sorceress.
And she obviously acquired the GF on the second disk.Why?
Because she never expected our characters to remember everything.
And so she junvtioned a GF as a last stand so that Edea can´t remember everything.