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His name was Ludwig von Beethoven. Yet, we cut the "von" out of his last name in America. Somehow we don't cut it out of von Braun's name, or anyone else that I know of, for that matter (I'm sure someone will find someone else and correct me), so why cut it out of von Beethoven's name?
I don't know about you guys, but as far as I'm concerned, he's not Beethoven, but von Beethoven.
EDIT: My real name is The von Ceej, so from now on, you can just call me von Ceej for short.
Maybe we drop it because his name was Ludwig van Beethoven.
von Braun has a pleasing example of assonance that van Beethoven lacks.
I agree with RuLa up there. It's all about the ephoniousness.
I've never heard his name without von before.
After a quick search, I found out his name is, indeed, Ludwig van Beethoven. Well, then. That means that my Music Appreciation text book back in college was wrong. Not only that, but it means that Ludwig von Koopa was not named after the composer in question. Maybe Morton Downey Koopa Jr. wasn't named after anyone famous as well.
Maybe everything I learned in college was wrong.
You can still call me von Ceej, though.
Or maybe you're, as usual, trying too hard to disprove things over a simple exception. Everyone with at least basic musical knowledge knows his name is Ludwig von Beethoven.
That's what I thought. But then they told me it was Ludwig van Beethoven, and I did a search. Either they were right or the first ten sites I saw, including Wikipedia, in the internet search were wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
How am I the one trying to disprove things when I was the one who was willing to admit I was wrong based on my findings? And how is this "usual" for me?
I believe at one point he faked the "von" himself because it denotes nobility or some such as that. Regardless, this thread is silly and pointless.
Yeah, I've always heard/read his name as Ludwig van Beethoven. Perhaps people don't mention it because it was faked as Bunny said, or that that's simply the name he's known by. After all, most other people I can think of with 'von' or 'van' tend to be known with the 'von' or 'van' in place, such as the footballer (Andy) van Der Meyde or the Nazi (Joachim) von Ribbentop, so he's an exception to the rule apparently.
I don't see how it matters though. We all know who we're talking about whether we use 'Beethoven' or 'van Beethoven.' Or even 'von Beethoven' ;)
Incidentally, "van" is a dutch addition to a last name. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto13
like my last name has "van der"
But yes, this is a well-known fact in the Netherlands.
That's actually the exact opposite of what you usually do.Quote:
Originally Posted by The CeejThat's what I thought. But then they told me it was Ludwig van Beethoven, and I did a search. Either they were right or the first ten sites I saw, including Wikipedia, in the internet search were wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
How am I the one trying to disprove things when I was the one who was willing to admit I was wrong based on my findings? And how is this "usual" for me?
Isn't it funny how people on the internet think they know you so damn well? For example, Roto thinks I'm the guy who thinks he's always right even when he knows he's wrong. Those were his words. That's not even close. I'm actually very open-minded and willing to change my opinion when new information comes in, as well as willing to admit when I'm wrong. But somehow, I get people like Roto and Momji thinking they know me and attacking me based on the incorrect assumption they have made in stay of attempting to get to know me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto13That's actually the exact opposite of what you usually do.Quote:
Originally Posted by The CeejThat's what I thought. But then they told me it was Ludwig van Beethoven, and I did a search. Either they were right or the first ten sites I saw, including Wikipedia, in the internet search were wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
How am I the one trying to disprove things when I was the one who was willing to admit I was wrong based on my findings? And how is this "usual" for me?
Ignore snipey negativity, keep on proving him wrong, and everyone will respect you more ; )
Um, what? I have not said one negative thing against you at all in this thread. Saying that "you are, as usual, trying too hard to disprove things over a simple exception" is nothing more than my observation of your mindset from recent posts. Just because I disagree with you does not mean I'm attacking you. It's this thing called 'discussion'.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ceej
Furthermore, the main point of me saying what I said is meant to follow the lines of 'does it really matter?'
You can't just say "Maybe everything I learned in college was wrong" just because of one simple error that really makes no impact upon what you have learned. Everyone makes mistakes. This one was just the mistake of whoever wrote the book.
Also, van, von, whatever. It's only a petty difference. I'd be more concerned if he popped out of the grave and started strangling me for saying it wrong. Until then, it's a matter of semantics and anal retentiveness. Of course, van is right, that's what I meant-- you just had me confused (I had incorrectly said 'von' earlier. :p). And as I said before, it is just a mistake. The world keeps on turning.