Inverted controls

So for as long as I can remember, I've played games with an inverted camera control. This works for 3rd and 1st person games. Many of these games have been with the mouse and at some point I started playing some even on consoles. There's always been an option to invert both X and Y.

Well, I picked up Bioshock for PS3. I've played it before on PC, but just wanted and easy copy I could pop into the PS3 and play with my wife. This is the first game that I've ever not had the option to switch. I can invert Y, but not X.

Naturally I went trying to read about this on the web. There are people in both camps spewing acerbic comments at one another on the topic. I didn't realize there was so much hate, but like the console wars... so much like religion... it seems people just have to find a camp to settle in on and hate all that is different.


So I was wondering if non-inverted has become the standard. I've missed out on a lot of console gaming over the past 5 or more years and been mostly at my mouse and keyboard. However, I seem to remember that plenty of older games had inversion by default. Camera control in FFXII (3rd person) was inverted by default even. When and why did this change? Why is non-inverted the standard now or is it even?


As a sidenote, I'm finding Bioshock one step away from unplayable due to this. It's difficult to use a single control scheme for nearly 2 decades and then be forced to switch. My brain needs so major rewiring.

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Originally Posted by Yeargdribble

When and why did this change? Why is non-inverted the standard now or is it even?

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The first question is pretty simple. I think the original SOCOM on the PS2 was the first game where I saw this control scheme as the default on a console. I didn't bother changing it at the time so I got used to it and I can't play inverted very well anymore.

As for why it's standard now (and it is, although a lot of games will let you switch), I think there are a couple of possible explanations and they're pretty straight forward really. One is that it's been the standard on the PC pretty much since the dawn of the 3D FPS. I've actually never played a PC FPS that was inverted by default and I'd be amazed if they even exist. I'm not even sure how you ever got used to inverted mouse control in the first place unless it was from some third person game. I don't play many of those on the PC.

The other potential explanation is that non-inverted is more intuitive in almost situation except flight games (solely because actual planes are flown inverted). It makes a lot more sense and is a lot easier for a person with little experience with these types of controls to get used to pressing up and to the right to look up and to the right. The only reason I ever got used to inverted was because at some point almost every console developer decided that that route was best for no real reason I can see.

If you like inverted then more power to you, and I do support having the option in any game with camera control (there's no reason not to given how little effort it would take on the developers part), but I do think non-inverted is the more intuitive control scheme in most situations.

I play inverted, because that's how I've always played. It's easier and feels natural, but I can understand why some people find it difficult.

I'm not sure about industry standard, but amongst my friends the norm is definitely non-inverted. Every time we play a FPS I have to switch the control scheme. This has led to several occasions where I've played "backwards" and I end up stuck between the two control schemes. It's hard to rewire your brain to control differently.

I play inverted (at least for Y) because I feel more comfortable "piloting" the camera rather than "controlling" it. You tilt your head back to look up. You pull the joystick back to look up. Which equates to down I guess. And speaking of which, I think I made that switch when game controllers started putting in analogue sticks. And I have my 360 set up to automatically make all controls inverted for the Y-axis. Everyone who plays on my console hates it though :} but screw 'em

I play non-inverted, but I can see why inverted makes sense to people who use it.

I must just be imagining that all of my PC FPS experiences were inverted, because back in the day I don't think I would've thought to change the default and would've just gotten used to it. I've played way more 3rd person games in the last several years.

Now that I think about it, a game like Half-Life 2 I think I would play non-inverted with the mouse... at least I think. Games like Oblivion where I switch between first and third person I recall giving me grief with controls, but not too much. I always adjust. my wife actually plays with controls that are the reverse of mine in Oblivion and it drives me crazy (both of us on PC) if I ever have to try something on her computer.

It seems I can adjust with the mouse to work either way, but something about the analog stick feels absolutely wrong to me. It's like I think in pilot mode or something. With a stick it seems like it should function the way a camera does on a tripod. You push the stick down to tilt the camera up and left to pan the camera right.

I guess I'll keep trying. It would be better for me to have ambidextrous camera control ability... but on the other hand it would be better if devs would just add a few more lines of code to make it an option to switch both axes.

I play with an inverted y-axis on mouse and joystick.

I think people just get used to it being one way because of being unable to change it in a game they play often and that's how they keep it when given the choice.

I prefer inverted for third person but not first person. In first person you are seeing through eyes, when you move them right, you should be looking over to the right. In third person you are seeing through a camera behind the character, when it swings in a half-circle to the right, you should be looking to the left.

I absolutely can not stand it when one axis is inverted and the other is not.

You can't place headshots with an inverted control scheme :p . Like Vivi22 said, that's the way it's been on PC FPS, and when consoles started makingn this switch, that's probably when the era of PC-ports-never-being-good came to an end. I think Halo was the first game I played that did this (Wow, never thought I'd say that sentence... :( ) and it was weird to me at first but I'm glad this change was made.

Maybe on flight games it still makes sense but I'm glad we're at where we are now. Now we just need more games to support keyboard & mouse support like Unreal Tournament III on PS3 (crosses fingers...)

Well, after several hours I have the gross motor control slightly working for me. It's still far from instinctive and I go backwards quite often. I have to think to look around sometimes. Fine motor control is basically zilch. I can't fire with any level of accuracy, much less land shots on a sub target (like a head). It only gets worse when there's a lot of movement. I end up eating a ton of enemy fire while I try to slowly draw my reticle over enemies... often point blank.

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Now we just need more games to support keyboard & mouse support like Unreal Tournament III on PS3 (crosses fingers...)

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The problem is that this requires way too much extra work from a developer standpoint. For online play you've gotta be able to recognize the control scheme and keep the key/mouse people separate from the controller people otherwise the key/mouse people are going to massacre the crap out of the controller people and gamers are going to cry fowl.

There's just not enough reason for most developers to set up something like this on top of the fact that you're asking people to buy extra peripherals for superior controls.

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Originally Posted by Yeargdribble

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Now we just need more games to support keyboard & mouse support like Unreal Tournament III on PS3 (crosses fingers...)

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The problem is that this requires way too much extra work from a developer standpoint. For online play you've gotta be able to recognize the control scheme and keep the key/mouse people separate from the controller people otherwise the key/mouse people are going to massacre the crap out of the controller people and gamers are going to cry fowl.

There's just not enough reason for most developers to set up something like this on top of the fact that you're asking people to buy extra peripherals for superior controls.

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I have to admit, Unreal is one of the few areas where it actually works, mostly because the game is built so that a player with a controller can go toe-to-toe with PC players. It's a game with uniform speed, no recoil and no reloading; I play with PC players all the time and always hold my own and have come #1 in many games.

But you're right - in virtually any other FPS, KB&M players would have a gross advantage over their peers using controllers and it would be a mess to sort it out in any kind of coherent online community.

However, I will always maintain that this desperately needs to happen in RTS games ported to consoles. Asking me to play Red Alert 3 with a controller is like showing a cartoon of Mohammed to a Muslim. Ok, maybe not quite that inconsiderate (understatement of the year), but the point is it offends values I hold to be important to me. There's simply no other way to play these games. If people can buy plastic peripherals to play music games effectively, there's no reason the same can't be done for RTS. It may be a niche hobby/sport, but I know many people who would love to enjoy these games on a big screen TV with surround sound in the comfort of their living room couch, myself included.

And I've diverted from the topic of inverted/non-inverted looking in control schemes, sorry!

I have no idea when it started becoming default, but I have always played with an inverted Y-axis.

I honestly cannot comprehend how people play with an inverted X-axis.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

You can't place headshots with an inverted control scheme :p .

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I know you were kind of joking here, but you can place headshots with an inverted control scheme. At least I could in Turok 2. It helped that the N64 analog stick was the most responsive ever put in a controller (until Mario Party killed them all), but I never went for anything but headshots with the Crossbow in Turok 2, and I rarely missed once but never missed twice. It got to the point that no one would play with me actually since walking into my field of view resulted in an instant headshot. :D

Still though, too many console FPS games since have had slow, clunky aiming by comparison and rely too much on auto aim to let actual coordination and reflexes mean much of anything.