Considering that Cloud went through experiments,infused Jenova cells and mako energy.Do you it's a possibility that he is infertile?
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Considering that Cloud went through experiments,infused Jenova cells and mako energy.Do you it's a possibility that he is infertile?
I don't think I've ever seen anybody ask a question like this before. Anyways, many such experiments don't have such an effect on animals from what I understand, so I think I'd lean more towards "yes he probably still can". Unless of course it's mentioned somewhere that Jenova cells and Mako energy are highly radioactive? It's been a long time since I've played this game, so I don't remember. Radioactive substances carry a high risk of making individuals sterile, don't they? [Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here]
A lot of the time they can make someone Sterile or even danger the seed. Making any offsprings deformed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalin
Yes,this topic has been in my head lately since I watched some time ago a documentary about the experiments at WW2 and how that left some men infertile.
Since Cloud been throught experiments...
If they weren't radioactive substances, then chances are that he's in the clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by line_genrou
Or his children have mutant powers or something
Or deformed with one wing.
Oh thats a point, if he has mako/jenova in him and then he knocks someone up then would the kid come out all strong and crazy like Sephiroth. Maybe that Why he and Tifa adopted lol. Better to be safe than sorry
No, Sephiroth is so strong because he is the only one who can control his alien cells, so only because Cloud has JENOVA-S-cells it doesn't mean his children can be as strong as/stronger than Sephiroth. Almost everything about the cells can be explained, but a few things are not 100 % logical, because after all it is a fantasy story and not everything in Final Fantasy has an explanation which is 100 % logical. But the point is, Sephiroth's mind became stronger and stronger. He was able to resist the lifestream and to absorb the ancient's knowledge to become even stronger. So his mind became the strongest of all and so he was (or is) able to use JENOVA abilities like psychic power like levitation/flying or reading minds and memories, shapeshifting, creating illusionary worlds, manipulating JENOVA cells, regenerating/reuniting himself, et cetera. So even if it works and Cloud has children with JENOVA cells they must be stronger than Sephiroth's mind to be like Sephiroth and to be able to use the abilities. And after all Sephiroth has become evil because his life was nothing but a lie. Cloud's wouldn't lie if his children ask why they are so special.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeneloRatsbane
Its possible he isn't infertile, but the bearer may push out something like that hideous lifeform in the Nibl reactor.
You would need to check Hojo's confidential files.
Why not? Isn't it shown several times throughout the FF VIII franchise that Cloud himself bests Sephiroth [At the very end of FF VII between Cloud and Sephiroth, Cloud and Sephiroth in FF:AC, Cloud and Sephiroth in Dissidia, etc.]? It would seem to me that if Cloud utterly defeats him time and time again, then it should be obvious that he's the stronger of the two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
1. I am talking about Cloud's children. Cloud's children are not Cloud himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalin
2. Cloud is not stronger than Sephiroth. It is officially stated Sephiroth is the strongest character. Sephiroth has the strongest will, so he is able to absorb the knowledge & memories in the lifestream, to become stronger and stronger which Cloud cannot because his mind would break like you see in Final Fantasy VII. Also Sephiroth can decide if he doesn't want to return to the planet, he doesn't have to, because his mind is stronger than the lifestream. There is one reason you Cloud wins against Sephiroth: Cloud is the hero of Final Fantasy VII. Because he is almost indestructable, Sephiroth has a weak point which is no physical: He is arrogant as hell. Instead of just killing Cloud he wants to break his mind before he kills him. That's because Sephiroth was so angry when Cloud, the normal ShinRa soldier immobilized inhuman power in Nibelheim power to push him into the mako stream. No doubt, Cloud is definitely the second strongest character in Final Fantasy VII, but Sephiroth is the strongest. And because of his arrogance Cloud gets angry again and again like in Nibelheim and so he surprizes his arch enemy with immobilizing inhuman power in every single battle. Sephiroth is surprised in Nibelheim, at the Bottom of the Northern Cave when he faces the heroes it is teamwork (the lifestream battle is just a mind battle to break Sephiroth's control and to end the story which doesn't really matter because of Advent Children and the fact, Sephiroth still returns) and in AC Cloud's Omnislash is just another surprise while Sephiroth shows his arrogant side. Before Cloud attacks him with this technique, it is shown he has no chance against Sephiroth. Even in Advent Children Complete Sephiroth blocks Cloud's normal Omnislash and then he stabs him again and again. Also the Ultimania Omega of Final Fantasy VII, published by Square tells how weak Cloud compared to Sephiroth is.
Like I've said before: Cloud is super mega strong. But he is not the strongest character.
And please, do not use things like Dissidia or Kingdom Hearts for your arguments. They prove nothing. They have nothing to do with the story of Final Fantasy VII, Square doesn't use Sephiroth special abilities for it, et cetera. Of course Dissidia is meant to be like "After the battle against Chaos everyone returns to his own world for his own story." but in Final Fantasy VII with all of its logic Dissidia doesn't exist. In Dissidia and Kingdom Hearts they ignore facts of most of the characters, otherwise the story would not be the same. Like you can see with Sephiroth in Kingdom Hearts. His JENOVA-S-cells were never mentioned. He returns because he is the dark side of Cloud. And that's not the reason why the original Final Fantasy VII Sephiroth can return over and over again. Of course there are many aspects to mention but I think you now understand why it is clear, Sephiroth is the stronger one. And the most important thing: When Square, the creators of Sephiroth say he is stronger of course you can have your own opinion and say "No, he is not." but it will never be the truth, because they decide what is true in Final Fantasy, what is wrong in Final Fantasy and where and opinion really makes sense because they haven't decided an explanation for it, for example what the Promised Land really is. Square has never decided what it really is. They want the fans of Final Fantasy VII to have their own opinion of the Promised Land.
I love Cloud's character, but I accept what I see and read in Final Fantasy VII and I accept Square's words.
There's nothing in the game that even hints one way or the other.
Also, the "who's stronger" debate is pointless, because everyone can use a different definition of "stronger." Depending on your definition, either Cloud or Sephiroth could legitimately be considered "stronger."
There are enough moments which show Sephiroth is stronger. And when it is officially stated Cloud has used all of his power in Advent Children and Sephiroth has not used all of his power in Advent Children - and we know Cloud is not successful in this battle except with his final attack - you see Sephiroth is stronger. No definition is necessary when Square states who is the stronger one. You can read it in the Ultimania, you can read it in interviews and you can clearly see it in Final Fantasy VII how often the characters fear Sephiroth's strength. I do not write this because I love Sephiroth that much, almost every Final Fantasy character is weaker than the main villain. And if you think controlling Cloud's mind, or fighting him while Cloud seems to be a newbie who cannot hit Sephiroth (and we all know he is not weak) is no hint, then I do not know what's a hint for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
I accept what you think. But do not look at facts and say they are non-existent like Square's statements which are proof enough.
But this is not the right topic, so I'll stop posting about this here.
EDIT: Okay, you definitely don't accept the truth of Square itself. I've already said, I do not need a definition. Stronger is stronger, which means their strength in every term about fighting. And when you think Cloud is the better fighter just because you ignore facts which are existent and not vague (when Square shows in AC fights like no except him is able to fight so even Cloud is defensive, then you call that "vague", yeah - of course...and you call it "vague" when Square says, Sephiroth is stronger..."Sephiroth is stronger." from Square means "Sephiroth is stronger." in both physical and magical battle; there is no difference for them, otherwise they would say it). And I am sorry, but when the creators of Cloud and Sephiroth say something about them, it is a universal fact, I do not need to pretend something, when it already exists. And that's not my first discussion. I discuss abour Final Fantasy every day and I am always using the lines in Final Fantasy, the lines of the Ultimania Omega and Square's interviews. I am using "vague and undefined terms", lol. Everything I tell you can be seen and read in Final Fantasy. Especially the AC battle when Cloud trys to fight against Sephiroth but is clearly defensive can be seen easily. And it is also written in the Ultimania, Cloud was at his limits like Kadaj was against him, but Sephiroth didn't even sweat and show all of his powers while fighting him. So I do not know what I should pretend about these things. They are facts, officially stated by Square-Enix. Your last part about "You seem to be looking about..." prooves you don't want to believe there is a truth from Square themself. You want to believe it is a matter of definition. But it is not. I have read your first post about definition. If it would be a matter of definition in case of Cloud and Sephiroth I would clearly make a difference where Cloud is stronger and where Sephiroth, but I do accept what the creators of them say. So, if you think it is a matter of definition and say Cloud is the better fighter and Sephiroth is the better wizard, then why don't you include all of their abilites in battle? Sephiroth as swordsman, as wizard and as a psychic fighter? Why don't you take all of these things for "better fighter"? Just because I draw the Exodia combo in the TCG "yugioh" against a world champion I am not better in this game than the world champion. He can still know much more about the game, the rulings than me and he can still beat me with all of his cards when I do not have enough luck to draw the combo. So Cloud wins, but that doesn't mean he is better in fighting than Sephiroth.
Well, after all it is prooved by Square so I don't need to discuss. I think the edit is okay for you, because this is off topic here.
Did you completely miss what I said about definitions? Define "stronger" first.
If you define it as brute strength (who can lift the most), then who knows. Probably Sephiroth, but there's nothing definite. If you include magical powers in the definition, then definitely Sephiroth. If you define it as "better fighter," then there's a good argument for Cloud, considering Cloud does defeat Sephiroth.
You seem to just be looking for evidence to justify a desire for Sephiroth to be "stronger." And there are legitimate arguments to be made, depending on your definition. But don't pretend it's a universal fact, especially when you're just using vague, undefined terms.