About the Gods

I've been very fascinated by the story of this game and I think it isn't as flawed as some people claim it is. The game suffers from poor storytelling yes, needing Datalogs entries and offical guides to fully explain it self but the more I think about it, the more I realise how clever the story is put together.

Anyway, most people are too lazy to read through the Analects (which I think are a lot of fun) which explain pretty much everything. I noticed there is a lot of confusing about certain plot points in the game, one of them is about the Gods, specifically the Maker known as Pulse.

Some people claim (s)he is the goddes Etro (I believe the FF wiki claims this), and others say it is the creator of Cocoon, Lindzei. I think both of these suggestion are false.

If we take a look at the analects we learn that there are several gods: Luminous (Etro) the goddes of death, Stout (dunno?) the creator of the world, Sage (dunno?) the creator of magic(?), Fool (Lindzei), and the Maker, creator of both humans and fal'Cie. This already proves that neither Etro or Lindzei are the Maker, and that he thus is a totally sperate entity.

The goddes who intefered twice during XIII's storyline is Etro, and not the Maker, though she is refered to as Her Providence. This is once again proven when reading the Analects.

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Her Providence sought nothing.
Her Providence made nothing.
She but looked on, silent in Her sorrow.
The Goddess pitied mortals, destined as they were to die, and so She deigned to intervene in the hour of their greatest peril. She averted cataclysm that was to be, and put to rest the ones who would have robbed so many of what time fate had ordained.
Her compassion did not end at this.
The Goddess pitied also those subjected to that fate of Focus, crueler still than death. To them She sent Her messengers, to deliver hope when all was lost.

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...so I hope the storyline makes a little bit more sense now

If there is anything else that isn't clear/doesn't make sense then I love to take a look at the problem and try to explain. :)

I don't think Etro follow FF13 storyline but they mentioned her in
this PV
YouTube - English Final Fantasy Versus XIII 2010 10min Extended Trailer 13 HD

Did you read FF13: episode 0?

She is kind off off handely mentioned but she does play some kind off role in XIII's story. I can understand why someone would miss that though.

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Originally Posted by ShinGundam

Did you read FF13: episode 0?

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Nope, but it seems like fun. I'm planning on giving it a read soon though.

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Her Providence sought nothing.
Her Providence made nothing.
She but looked on, silent in Her sorrow.
The Goddess pitied mortals, destined as they were to die, and so She deigned to intervene in the hour of their greatest peril. She averted cataclysm that was to be, and put to rest the ones who would have robbed so many of what time fate had ordained.
Her compassion did not end at this.
The Goddess pitied also those subjected to that fate of Focus, crueler still than death. To them She sent Her messengers, to deliver hope when all was lost.

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Does this mean the Eidolons are sent by Etro? That would explain them a bit better. Otherwise they were just kind of random battle devices with no real story. Thanks, that was a minor question that came up when I played the game.

That's what I get out of it.

I agree that the story is extremely well put together, and keeps you guessing. I don't even really count the need for the datalog as weak storytelling, I actually quite enjoyed it. i actually posted a theory in my thread, On Orphan and Barthandelus, which actually says the same thing as you. However, my designation of the gods were a little different...

Stout - Pulse (maker of the earth, makes sense)
Luminous - Lindzei (couldn't remember my reasoning have to look at the analect)
Fool - Etro (it says fool desired nothing and so became one with it, which is also said about Etro in the Analect you quoted above)
Sage - not really mentioned in detail in the datalogs

However, none of us may truly know until they decide to release more information on the FNC saga. Etro is also the Goddess of Death in FFvXIII. Noctis and Stella are discussing a painting of Etro at the party where they first meet. My theory was that the greenish entity that you fly through on your way back to Cocoon in Chapter 11 is Etro herself, as the Analect that talks about her also shows a picture of this entity.

One thing is for sure though, the Maker is a totally separate being than Lindzei and Pulse, that much is made clear through the Analects. There are actually some other really good theories posted by other people in the other thread I mentioned, you should check it out and see what you think.

The anaclets quite suggest Lindzei is the Maker of Cocoon.

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Originally Posted by finaloblivion

One thing is for sure though, the Maker is a totally separate being than Lindzei and Pulse, that much is made clear through the Analects. There are actually some other really good theories posted by other people in the other thread I mentioned, you should check it out and see what you think.

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This is not for sure. From all the things I've read in the analects and guide and so forth, the Maker is Pulse. However it could be considered that the Maker is not only Pulse, but also Lindzei, depending on who is speaking (ie, Cocoon-favouring fal'Cie may speak of the Maker when referring to Lindzei, whilst Pulse-favouring fal'Cie may speak of the Maker when referring to Pulse...).

But basically my general opinion is that the Maker is Pulse, from what I've read. I'm sure it's actually specifically pointed out at some point, although I can't remember where and I'm at work so can't check much. =/

BoB is correct. It is pointed out in one of the first Analects availible, even before you head into the Subterra.

It was the Great and Hallowed Pulse who, seeking to expand divine domain, parted the chaos and fashioned realm within; made fal'Cie, and charged them with this world's completion.
The fal'Cie, anxious to please the hand that shaped them, labored devotedly at the task they had been given. They made l'Cie of men so that they, too, might be able to aid the greater cause. Men, in turn, offered praise and prayer to Hallowed Pulse, naming their great land in honor of its architect.
Yet still the architect departed.

-- On the Nature of Fal'Cie

That specifically states that Pulse created fal'Cie, which makes Pulse the Maker.

It also says that Cocoon fal'Cie are the children of Lindzei, so I don't think that constitutes Pulse as the Maker simply based on that.

I don't think any of us are correct really...there's so much ambiguity to the Analects that there's no clear answer to who the Maker actually is. BoB, your theory holds water and it's definitely a good one, but I don't necessarily think that's all there is to it. The point that Rozaheku was trying to make is that the Vanquished Gods Analect described several different Gods, and those descriptions go along with the descriptions of beings such as Pulse, Lindzei and Etro. It also describes the Maker as a completely seperate entity from those Gods...All I'm saying is that this raises some questions, and while I may have wrong to say that it's clear the Lindzei and Pulse are seperate from the Maker, i don't think you can say for sure otherwise because that would be simply ignoring the content of other Analects.

That's what I'm saying when there's so much ambiguity in the Analects - there's evidence to suggest both sides of the argument. Things are cloudy in the Analects, just like in real history. But that's what I think is so interesting about this stuff - we could debate it for awhile.

I agree on that. :)

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It also says that Cocoon fal'Cie are the children of Lindzei, so I don't think that constitutes Pulse as the Maker simply based on that.

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That´s what I was thinking.

I can definitely agree on this:

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

However it could be considered that the Maker is not only Pulse, but also Lindzei, depending on who is speaking (ie, Cocoon-favouring fal'Cie may speak of the Maker when referring to Lindzei, whilst Pulse-favouring fal'Cie may speak of the Maker when referring to Pulse...).
=/

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I think as far as the view of a fal'Cie goes, this would probably be true. I still think it's anyone's guess on the specifics of the Gods mentioned in The Vanquished Gods Analect, but the Maker is set apart from the deities listed (Fool, Stout, Luminous, etc) and that can hint at a lot more. I'll look more tonight