Decline, Improvement or Stagnation?

First off I want to say I have played EVERY SINGLE FINAL FANTASY. Although I never did beat ExDeath without the Mix cheat...

I want to hear your opinions on the state of Final Fantasy today, any opinion welcome!

My opinion is that FF was at it's peak in the FF6/FF7 era, declined during FF8 (GODDAMN CRAZY INTERNAL MONOLOGUE!) rose again during FF9, and has been declining slowly until FF13. Where it dropped writhing to the ground and had a fit (Pulse music? MUZAK NOOO!).

To specify, while graphically Final Fantasy is headlining, it seems to be declining in the ways it always excelled: Storyline, Character Development and innovative gameplay. For example - FF13's "Innovative Paradigm System!" = a stunted and less flexible FF12 gambit system (which wasn't great either). FF13's powerful story! = FF12's storyline with less empires and more technology (Fal'Cie = Occurians {Undying})
FF13's character development! = Nothing. Sazh is the only one with a somewhat explained backstory.

Now if Squeenix continues along this line, I'm sure they'll tap into the modern trend of "GRAFIX!!1!one". Me? I just hope they remake FF9 in time. (Sakaguchi said that FF9 was the only one he wanted a sequel for, shame he went a founded his own company...)

Financially, the decline kinda started with FFIX, but I'm guessing you're talking about quality here.

imo, the decline started with FFXII. FFXII and FFXIII wasn't magical like every other Final Fantasy title, and I don't think me getting older is the reason why I think this. Sure FFXIII was great compared to FFXII, and I enjoyed it well enough, but it doesn't have FFV to FFX beat.

I'm 16 and every other person I know who bought FF13 said it was brilliant. I shook my head and cried for humanity.

But seriously, I think the decline started when Squeenix decided to make Single-Player games that play like MMORPG's. So that leaves FFXI as the culprit. FFX is a deadzone to me, it doesn't seem like an FF game in the heart. Maybe because it was the first without an overworld...meh.

But seriously, every FF after FFXI now plays like an MMORPG. I want Sakaguchi back as Producer.

It's different and now it sucks Oh No.

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Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪

It's different and now it sucks Oh No.

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Not really. It's great as a JRPG. It doesn't feel or play like a Final Fantasy however, that's the point. Or my point, either way.

I'd say it's 'Different'. Sure, the recent releases haven't been very traditional in maintaining elements of what we'd all expect from a Final Fantasy game, but it doesn't mean they weren't fun. I thought FFXIII was good and FFXII was fantastic. They didn't feel like the VI-X games, but that's fine. I'm happy for the series to change in certain aspects as long as the new games are good, which in my opinion so far, they are. I'm not hung up on whether it "feels like a Final Fantasy" or not.

I find it odd how games like Crisis Core and Dissidia are so well received despite all their differences from the Final Fantasy formula, yet the mainstream games seemed to get judged alongside their predecessors much more harshly, even though each installment is supposed to have nothing to do with the others.

For me it is in decline for sure.
I though the series was getting better from I-III and FFIV-FFIX (with the exception of VIII)were awesome. X was alright but I thought it was a little weak. If it had continued on like the previous 9 titles I would have dismissed it as a lul, but seeing as I was majorly disappointed by FFXII and FFXIII it goes into the 'beginning of the end' bin.

So if you discount FFVIII as an outlier it was all good until FFX, if you discount FFIX as an outlier the downward trend started after FFVII (oh god, I don't want to be one of 'those people')

Though to be fair, I still consider FFX to be a well above average RPG, and FFXII and FFXIII to be decent games when evaluated on their own. Just far bellow what I had grown to expect from FFI-FFIX.

My opinion is that it's generally been in "decline" after a steady upswing and peak at VI and VII (with V being the climax of the old-school portion of the series). However, to me, the noticeable decline didn't begin until the PS2-era.

VIII is an interesting experiment but falls a little flat with an easily-manipulated (but wonderfully inventive) customization system and an unfocused plot.

IX is a solid, better put-together game than VIII, but ultimately felt a bit beenthere-donethat and completely struck out trying to fuse an old-school FF story with a PSOne-era one. Still a solid game - I'd take it over almost all the NES/SNES games for which its designed to provide warm, pinky nostalgia - although I don't find it as interesting as VIII.

Except for a few bits, X is a complete lame duck both in gameplay and story. Square actually used the PS2 technology and made the series feel disappointingly smaller and thinner. As an 18-year old who, up to that point, idolized the series, X was the first time I thought, 'Wow, this actually sucks.'

XII might be one of, if not the, best game with Square's name on it. However, for better or for worse, this game seems to be Final Fantasy in name only. I usually consider it apart from the main series progression (and any discussions of decline or peaking), especially after the way in which XIII felt like it was designed as a progression straight off X.

XIII - for me, the real FFXI, as it seems to pick up where X left off, abandoning XII (and XI Online) as an anomaly. XIII is easily the weakest game with the Final Fantasy name on it, and one of the most pointless games I've played in a long, long time. Outside of battling, there is nothing. The story is trite and poorly-written, and I look down on anyone who thinks otherwise. The gameplay might have been interesting, but even an incredible, groundbreaking battle system (ie: not XIII's) couldn't carry a game for the amount of time SE expects the player to spend with it - and definitely not without a living, breathing world surrounding it in which the player can get lost, or in which he can find pleasant diversions and curiosities (SE used to be really good at the world-building thing).

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Originally Posted by Flying Arrow

My opinion is that it's generally been in "decline" after a steady upswing and peak at VI and VII (with V being the climax of the old-school portion of the series). However, to me, the noticeable decline didn't begin until the PS2-era.

VIII is an interesting experiment but falls a little flat with an easily-manipulated (but wonderfully inventive) customization system and an unfocused plot.

IX is a solid, better put-together game than VIII, but ultimately felt a bit beenthere-donethat and completely struck out trying to fuse an old-school FF story with a PSOne-era one. Still a solid game - I'd take it over almost all the NES/SNES games for which its designed to provide warm, pinky nostalgia - although I don't find it as interesting as VIII.

Except for a few bits, X is a complete lame duck both in gameplay and story. Square actually used the PS2 technology and made the series feel disappointingly smaller and thinner. As an 18-year old who, up to that point, idolized the series, X was the first time I thought, 'Wow, this actually sucks.'

XII might be one of, if not the, best game with Square's name on it. However, for better or for worse, this game seems to be Final Fantasy in name only. I usually consider it apart from the main series progression (and any discussions of decline or peaking), especially after the way in which XIII felt like it was designed as a progression straight off X.

XIII - for me, the real FFXI, as it seems to pick up where X left off, abandoning XII (and XI Online) as an anomaly. XIII is easily the weakest game with the Final Fantasy name on it, and one of the most pointless games I've played in a long, long time. Outside of battling, there is nothing. The story is trite and poorly-written, and I look down on anyone who thinks otherwise. The gameplay might have been interesting, but even an incredible, groundbreaking battle system (ie: not XIII's) couldn't carry a game for the amount of time SE expects the player to spend with it - and definitely not without a living, breathing world surrounding it in which the player can get lost, or in which he can find pleasant diversions and curiosities (SE used to be really good at the world-building thing).

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Your opinions almost match mine completley. Except i wasn't nearly as disapointed with X as you seem to be. The music was superb, the battle system was fun, it was beautiful to look at, the story i didn't find to be as predictable as most people find it to be and actually found myself quite gripped by it. Unfortunatley Tidus takes a :bou::bou::bou::bou: all over this game and as you follow his :bou::bou::bou::bou: stained pants, you have to smell it through the whole game.

I would like to say the series in decline but it's not really as simple as that from my perspective. At this point I've given up on any game directed or produced by Yoshinori Kitase or Motomu Toriyama being good. Kitase directed VII which though I like it, it is more about nostalgia as the game is very flawed in a lot of ways, and he directed VIII which I considered the worst entry in the series until I played XIII. Toriyama on the other hand was the event planner on those games and directed FFX-2, Revenant Wings and FFXIII (two of which were produced by Kitase). Seeing as I hate everything he's directed it's hard to have faith in anything he does at this point.

In fact, the only thing I can really legitimately credit Kitase with was co-directing VI, but that brings me to another point altogether. He co-directed that game with Hiroyuki Itō, the man who designed FFIV's battle system, the battle and job system in FFV, was the game design director on Tactics, and directed my two favourite entries since VI; FFIX and FFXII (co-directed anyway). In fact the only bad thing that I could say about him is he designed FFVIII's battle system. But seeing as VIII's system was a cool idea but just very unbalanced, I have to wonder if it's his fault or if others were in charge of the implementation, or perhaps even forced things on it that lead to the unbalance.

So on whether or not FF is in decline I can really only say that as long as Kitase and his pals are running the show then yes, the series is in decline and will most likely continue to be the utter crap that was XIII. But I'll be right there ready to pick up any title that has Hiroyuki Itō involved without hesitation.

O HUSH DIFFERENT ISN'T BAD

It isn't necessarily good either.

My beef is that it went from exploration so free you could do half the game out of order (FF1) to not even being able to go backwards (FF13). Make of it what you will, but in my opinion that's bloody tragic. FF12 was a step in the right direction with its free roaming and the player's control of the entire party (to hell with Gambits! What's next, auto-jump for Mario?) and then it was like Squenix just said "We can't be arsed to do this again" and indeed chose not to be arsed.

I've played every FF too. And the newer ones, starting with X, are very different, but I'm not sure whether that's a bad thing yet. I did enjoy them less, but sometimes I wonder if I'm going to be forever tainted with the bias of nostalgia.

EDIT: Wait, every FF except XIII. I've watched it played, haha. I became used to saying "I've played every one" and now that XIII is out I need to get rid of that habit.