Final Fantasy XIII director speaks out against lower-than-expected review scores.

Quoted from Wikipedia:

"After release, game director Motomu Toriyama felt that the lower-than-expected review scores for a main Final Fantasy series game were as a result of reviewers approaching the game with a Western point-of-view, and that these reviewers were more used to games in which the player was given an open world in which to explore; he noted that this expectation contrasted with the vision the team set out to create, in that it "becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when you're given that much freedom."

It would've worked better if the story was actually compelling!

I like the way Yahtzee puts it: "People say I should view Fable II as a sim-type game as opposed to a RPG. So I have to change around my expectations to enjoy it. I could also view it as a frisbee; that'd make it seem pretty good."

It was something like that. Call it what you want, it's still the same boring game no matter how you slice it.

Anyway, discuss the things I said.

He's blaming the failure of his game on the fans? No sir, your game fails because it's :bou::bou::bou::bou:.

That's common reasoning by modern artists "They don't like it because they don't get it."

Anyway, I like XIII, not up there with the best but from a personal POV I like it and that's all that really matters, whether you like it.

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Originally Posted by Shin Gouken

He's blaming the failure of his game on the fans? No sir, your game fails because it's :bou::bou::bou::bou:.

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Now we can agree on this game at least :D And you are right....this guy seems to be in denial about the game.

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Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2

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Originally Posted by Shin Gouken

He's blaming the failure of his game on the fans? No sir, your game fails because it's :bou::bou::bou::bou:.

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Now we can agree on this game at least :D And you are right....this guy seems to be in denial about the game.

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lol i'm glad we can agree on something :)

Hahahahahaha oh man. No the game got review scores lower than you are used to because people don't like this one as much, on the whole. I mean, I like it plenty, I had fun with the great majority of it, and it was a pretty solid and fun affair throughout, but I don't see how I could give it more than 8/10, which is a little under the Metacritic average last time I saw it.

I certainly don't hate it like seifer does, but I don't love it like I love X or anything either.

Whether you like the game or not, blaming lower than expected review scores on the player rather than taking a hard look at whether you could have made a game is pretty sad.

Now that's not to say reviewers and players always know what's good and what isn't. Most of the time if a company listened to a lot of their ideas on how to make a better game you'd end up with a steaming pile of crap. That doesn't mean your game is without fault though. I think it's kind of indicative of Square in general though. They could care less about any criticism and looking for ways to actually make a better game. I sometimes feel like they just design in a vacuum without ever considering if there's some valid criticism out there from fans and reviewers alike.

^ I actually think the same thing. But then again, we get FFX, then XII, and then due to backlash, XIII. It seems they do take into account fan opinion on the broad strokes, but still won't budge on the nuts and bolts of it all (assuming, of course, that XIII isn't just the way it is now because these guys have no idea how to create a compelling, creative game anymore). SE have ridiculous resources, but they allocate them into completely the wrong places - how else could FFXIII's game-world wind up so completely sterile of activity and interaction? The story and narrative are an objective mess, too. Either no one paid attention or cared, or they just assumed fans would enjoy 8-bit-quality storytelling in a cinematic HD-era game. So, yeah, Toriyama's criticism of the criticism is pathetic.

What I don't understand is what he's complaining about anyway. Most major gaming websites slapped on some pretty high of those stupid numbers. Gamespot's review in particular stands out, because the reviewer parrots out criticism regarding exactly what they know their audience will be annoyed with (Vanille) but very little else of what actually deserves to be taken apart and analyzed - the kind of things that might affect sales among the non-FF-initiated.

He want to justify linearity in this game :eep:
News: Final Fantasy XIII boss responds to review scores - ComputerAndVideoGames.com

Also, Don't read too much into Kitase' or Toriyama's comments, they were trying to "spin" everything because FF13 wasn't released at that point.
Parts of Final Fantasy XIII could have been better, admits Square

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Originally Posted by Flying Arrow

Most major gaming websites slapped on some pretty high of those stupid numbers. Gamespot's review in particular stands out, because the reviewer parrots out criticism regarding exactly what they know their audience will be annoyed with (Vanille) but very little else of what actually deserves to be taken apart and analyzed - the kind of things that might affect sales among the non-FF-initiated.

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Yup, he probably wanted 10/10 across the board. I gave up with "professional reviews" from the likes of gamespot a while back, because they seem to be scared to review properly, possibly fearing fan backlash or maybe they are just in the pocket of square or big business?

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Originally Posted by Shin Gouken

He's blaming the failure of his game on the fans? No sir, your game fails because it's :bou::bou::bou::bou:.

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Failure? If shipping five million and selling four million copies is failure, I'm perfectly fine with failing.

This news is old though, as in, before the game was even released outside of Japan. I agree it's a laughably stupid theory on why the game didn't get universal praise. But I strongly disagree that any game I enjoyed as much as FFXIII is crap. :D

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Originally Posted by Rad Bromance

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Originally Posted by Shin Gouken

He's blaming the failure of his game on the fans? No sir, your game fails because it's :bou::bou::bou::bou:.

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Failure? If shipping five million and selling four million copies is failure,

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The number of copies does not indicate quality. You could serve dog turd to the fanbase of Final Fantasy and it would still sell millions as long as it had the name/brand.

Britney Spears is hardly Led Zeppelin but sold millions. The argument doesn't work.

The best gauge is that gamespot gave it less than 9 and other magazines panned it, including edge. Also, user reviews are way down to around 7 and 8 out of 10 where usually they are 9 and 10 and the fact there seem to be far more people on forums like this criticising numerous flaws.

The bad thing about good sales is that this game type will continue to be churned out as long as people keep accepting it. That's why britney wasn't on welfare where she belonged, or why XIII wasn't a bomb, or why little pop groups that sing manufactured garbage make millions and go to number 1 frequently.

It is human stupidity as a whole that allows for it to happen.

It's also all SE cares about, money, so accept it, because you sure as hell ain't gonna change the world and the system. Even what little people you do get onto the hate-train will not change overal sales. But hey, if you think continuous ranting about the evil of XIII, SE and its money love will help, be my guest. Excuse me for not caring. Nor do I care what the director has to say about negative reviews, or about reviews in general. Nothing will change. SE will still make games, some will get negative reviews and haters, SE will comment on it and make cashloads of money and make another game. Repeat.

I'll care the day one of the haters manages to change society. Cause that's what you have to do if you don't want this situation of SE not caring because it still sells to go on. Good luck with that. Haha.

On how many levels is Toriyama wrong?

First, this game got mediocre reviews, and criticism for its linearity when it was released in Japan. The smurfing Japanese criticized this game for linearity. His argument fails there.

Second, they took a Western design philosophy to this title, one that is much appreciated by Westerners. When Toriyama & Kitase said how they were influenced by First Person Shooters and Call of Duty, everyone laughed, but it's now apparent - the statistical report after battles, the contained environments with clear objectives, even the way it seems the story was written to fit the levels instead of the other way around. Westerners generally like those things. Vince Zampella (ex-Infinity Ward) said the best stories are on rails and everyone agreed with him. Assassin's Creed II was praised by the press for taking a more linear approach with its main story. Some people are still GTA-struck, but for the most part, I believe most reviewers understand there's a place for open-world and a place for linearity. Still, FFXIII goes beyond any useful definition of linearity in a game. Dragon Quest V is linear, but it's nowhere near the level of FFXIII.

Third, how do his comments explain the widespread celebration and nearly unparalleled success of the previous Final Fantasy's? Were reviewers looking at FFVIII or IX from a "Western" perspective? The other day when Ars Technica examines FFVII as a masterpiece, or IGN puts FFX as one of the top PS2 games, are they doing so from a "Western" perspective? Because his comments make no damn sense.

This whole "Western" designation is a stereotype, and like most stereotypes, it's a shortcut to thinking. And it causes damage in the end. Wada, Toriyama, and Kitase wanted to be successful in the West, so they made/published a game based on their own stereotypes of the West. It shows how much it hurt them.

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Originally Posted by elpizo

SE will still make games, some will get negative reviews and haters, SE will comment on it and make cashloads of money

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Actually it's debatable how much money they're making. Considering how many years they developed the White Engine, only to spend extra years making in the multiplatform "Crystal Tools Engine" before actually making a game, I would doubt how profitable it has been for them.

And I agree with you that none of our bitching will change anything, but this is a forum, where we're allowed to post our opinions on things, regardless of what they'll change. Actually, I'm sure no one goes to forums looking to change things.

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It's also all SE cares about, money, so accept it,

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No thanks, that is how this game was possible, because people like you accepted mediocrity.

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because you sure as hell ain't gonna change the world and the system.

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So? That doesn't make it exempt from criticism, and nor does it mean I have to be part of it.

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Even what little people you do get onto the hate-train will not change overal sales.

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More is the pity as they are the intelligent ones. So I prefer "Intellectual Train" Thanx.

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But hey, if you think continuous ranting about the evil of XIII, SE and its money love will help, be my guest.

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Cheers, I will carry on as usual.

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Excuse me for not caring.

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I love how people go on a rant and then say "But I don't really care....err...I just had a massive rant but I don't care....honest!" haha

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Nor do I care what the director has to say about negative reviews,

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So why are you here in this thread which is entitled "Director Speaks Out"? I must say I find your logic fascinating....

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or about reviews in general. Nothing will change.

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With your attitude, definitely not.

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SE will still make games, some will get negative reviews and haters, SE will comment on it and make cashloads of money and make another game. Repeat.

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Cash loads yes, but at your expense, not mine ;)

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I'll care the day one of the haters manages to change society.

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Hater this hater that. And yes, Hitler changed society, and the world. He was certainly a hater....

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Haha

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Aimed at your own intolerance I hope?