Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tonberry_King
I know people say Sephiroth is the most overrated FF villain,
He's only overrated so far as saying he's the best villain. I would argue that Kuja is a much better villain, as Sephy is basically a Golbez/Zemus knockoff who uses mind control and an overly complicated plan that comes off a bit far fetched in the long run to have actually worked. It still makes for a good story but I don't feel Sephy really treaded any new territory here.
Quote:
but Kefka comes up pretty close.
I'll agree on the idea of saying Kefka is the "best" villain. Once again, I would say Kuja is pretty damn underrated by some fans.
Quote:
Sephiroth had a much more detailed backstory
Yes, but all it really served to do was give him an unnecessary sympathy (considering Nomura says Sephy is pure evil and should not be considered a sympathetic villain) its more of a over-bloated backstory that gives a Freudian excuse for his insanity. Despite its detail, it doesn't change the fact that Sephy's personality is still pretty much an "I R EVIL" character with no redeemable qualities, he's just evil.
Quote:
and killed off a main character.
Just like Ex-Death... Golbez should get some minor points, as his actions indirectly led Tellah to his own demise and he did die in battle with Golbez... half a point at least.
Quote:
He also blew up Saturn and Jupiter, as well as the sun during the final battle.
Which he can do over and over again. Its superflous special effects, Ultimecia has an attack that has her slam four planets into the party at once, doesn't change the fact Aura/Limit Breaks= WIN.
Quote:
Kefka was a lot more evil and villainous, but he gets too much credit.
Well, we agree on one thing.
Quote:
Gestahl was the one who did most of the work.
Like what? Yeah he caught the original espers that led to Kefka's power and he created the plan to snatch the Warring Triad while Kefka was keeping the party and espers busy in Thamasa but overall, I think you are giving Gestahl more credit than he deserves.
Quote:
Kefka just waited for the right opportunity to overthrow him all Star Wars-ish.
It was partly dumb luck that Kefka succeeded too. ;) Technically, by this logic Kefka is great villain cause he made Ghestahl do all the work and he got all the benefits, which is hardly new in the FF series starting in 16-bit era and continuing on to the PS1 generation.
Yet, I would say Kefka did no such thing, as he killed the Emperor mostly for denying him his urge to kill Celes and then trying to kill him for messing with the statues. Of anything, Gestahl used Kefka to reach his goals cause there was no way he could have succeeded without a cut throat sociopath like Kefka being his right arm man. Gestahl just suffered the fate of irony as he used his little psychopath to obtain a means of god-like power and then when he goes to dispose of him, his "flunky" ends up unlocking the secrets of godhood and kills him instead. Its pretty funny actually.
Quote:
He also didn't even really destroy the world; the Warring Triad did. Anyone coulda moved a bunch statues. Heck, Shadow did it at the end of the Floating Continent.
Just like Sephiroth really didn't destroy Midgard or release the WEAPONS cause that was all the work of the Black Materia and Meteor. Considering Sephy is technically dead (and his soul purged by the Lifestream til the retcon in AC) you can't really say he did all that just cause he put it all into motion. Also, anyone could have used the Black Materia had they also been in the right circumstances. Obviously, no one would agree to this.
As The Man said, the weapon is the Warring Triad but its Kefka's will and actions that caused this, Kefka purposely moved the Warring Triad to cause the devastation so we can still safely say Kefka destroyed the world with his actions.
Also, Shadow failed to stop Kefka and all though anyone could have used it, no one was willing to do it except Kefka. Gestahl said earlier that tampering with their balance could result in the destruction of the planet. So Kefka knew what he was doing and no one was able to stop him from doing so. Also, by staying within the Warring Triads, Kefka was virtually unstoppable. I would assume he probably tried to make Shadow "well done" to get him to back off from interfering.
Quote:
Not to mention he freaks out at the sight of his own blood.
Just like Sephy is so surprised Cloud can lift him after being impaled that he let's him toss him into the Mako Reactor. :roll2
If you pay attention to Kefka's dialogue, you notice quickly he already has a god-complex and thinks he's superior to everything. Having a lower being spill your blood would be something that would catch you by surprise and make you decide to go super psycho on everything. Let's face it, Kefka is on his last straw.
Quote:
And he is surprised that there is sand on his boots when they're WALKING THROUGH THE FREAKING DESERT.
This scene is actually commented on by Kitase ( director and scenario
writer) in which he added that scene to give Kefka an entrance with more personality and to show the player that Kefka has a few screws loose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Crystal
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Man
There's no evidence whatsoever that Ghastla ordered Kefka to do any of the things I mentioned, except for mass-murdering the Espers.
Yes, but Kefka was able to reach the Espers and kill them in Thamasa, and reach the Warring Triad in the Floating Continent to push them out of alignment, only because he was following Ghestal's plan. Not his own.
Ghestal basically lead him to the Espers and the Triad.
So not having an elaborate Xanatos Gambit automatically makes you less of a bad guy? By whose authority?
Once again, I feel you guys are giving Gestahl far too much credit, considering he orders his forces to track down Terra in the first half of the game tells me that Gestahl didn't have some far reaching plan, rather he just made lemonade out of the lemons he was given.
You also forget that Kefka mentions restoring the Warring Triad in the Magitech Research Facility, after gloating about becoming more powerful no less, and for a lackey to just jump in front of his "boss" try to take his power to kill a few shmups who just got a lucky hit off of him kinda says he doesn't really respect the Emperor and that's the thing here. Kefka's not really a lackey cause he doesn't respect his boss, in fact much of his dialogue suggests he thinks of himself as an equal to the Emperor; and why wouldn't he? Seeing as how Gestahl needs Kefka to accomplish his goals. This argument acts like Kefka could have been anybody but really it required a powerful and somewhat competent individual with no morality to get any of his plans done.
The other problem here is that this argument assumes VI fans think Kefka masterminded everything, he didn't. I don't think anyone is arguing that Kefka had some elaborate plan to become a god, rather he took advantage of a good thing. What does make Kefka a great viallin is the mass destruction and death he causes as well as the fact he revels in it. None of the other FF villains do this.
Kefka enjoys murdering and destroying, he may have been given the orders to kill the espers and conquer Doma but its seems pretty clear that wiping out the population of Doma was not part of the plan and I doubt Gestahl told Kefka to torch Thamasa and get all those troops killed in the process, since he wiped out his own men in the battle against the Espers. I also doubt killing Leo was part of the whole deal seeing as how Gestahl was willing to forgive Celes and let her rejoin his ranks. I also doubt that Kefka going to Figaro Castle was suppose to involve him trying to burn down the castle and show the world the Empire will even destroy their allies. Politically speaking, Kefka was a huge liability and one that Gestahl felt outlived its usefulness once he openly overstepped his authority in front of him.
Kefka is a great villain because he's likable. He has great dialogue and he's not beneath stooping to humor unlike all the other FF villains who have to be super serious all the time. Yet, despite this likability, Kefka is pretty much an irredeemable bastard who kills for his personal pleasure and his very methods of murder are far crueler and more graphic than other villains of his time. Kefka specifically preys on the weak and spends his time as a god torturing the inhabitants of a nearly dead world all for his own amusement. Then he does something else that makes him different from other FF villains, he gets a very philosophical personality change at the very end. When the party meets Kefka again, he's not sitting here just reveling in the destruction, rather he's grown bored of his daily routine and in his own god-like mind decides that life is meaningless because its just a cycle of destruction in his world. I wonder if villains like Mateus, Ex-Death, Sephiroth, and Ultimecia would have come to a similar conclusion had their plans panned out.
Also, just to kinda show that a lot of the villains need dumb luck to accomplish there goals, the entire plot of VII and Sephiroth's goals and plans only come into fruition because Cloud threw him into the Mako Reactor. All because of some silly dumb luck. Sephy never would have learned about Meteor, the truth about Jenova, nor would he have grown strong enough to mind control people unless the Compilation retcon all that as well in their ever continuing goal to make sure that VII fans are right by making Sephy the strongest villain ever!!! Basically, all of Sephiroth's accomplishments in VII are the thanks to Cloud throwing him into the reactor after he was too stupid to let go of his own sword. :roll2
