My first playthough and confused about Sin.... SPOILER INSDE

Hi,

I am a long-time Final Fantasy player, but I am ashamed to admit this is my first play through of FFX. It was definitely an awesome game and I had a blast playing through, but I am confused about Sin.


SPOILER PART

When approaching Zanarkand Tydus is knocked unconscious and is shown the Fayth and learns that he is a dream and only exists because they continue to dream, but long to wake up. Later on, or maybe before, the party learns that Sin continues to be reborn by joining with the Final summon of the summoner who kills him. We also learn that the Final Summon is a product of the summoners companion and Yu Yevon's magic thingy (I forgot).

My question is that if Braska used Jecht for his final summon to defeat Sin and Yu Yevon merged with Jecht, shouldn't that have been his downfall? When you meet 'Sin' Jecht still has control of himself, so he exists. Couldn't the Fayth have just woken up after the new 'Sin' was created and he would die since Jecht disappeared? I'm sure this has been discussed before, but it is bothering me.

Thanks

Actually didn't think about it that way, but you have a good point. What kept them dreaming and why couldn't they wake up after Jecht took over?

Two possibilities I can think of:
1) Square forgot
2) The Fayth are jerks

Actually, Yunalesca turns a guardian into a whole new fayth when they get to Zanarkand (that's where the empty stone of the fayth is for). So in that case, I guess the fayth that have dreamed Jecht lost control over him at that point.

I always thought that when Jecht became a fayth, he stopped being a dream and became a being of yunalesca's creation. I also was under the impression that it wasn't the final aeon part of Sin that was preventing the fayth from waking up, but the Yu Yevon part that was within sin. So at the point were the two merged to form the new sin, the fayth had lost control of Jecht and were being kept asleep by yu yevon.

Quote:

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the fayth had lost control of Jecht and were being kept asleep by yu yevon

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This.
If the fayth are kept dreaming by Yu Yevon, it's not like they could wake up and destroy Jecht to begin with, and even if they did, they would destroy Jecht, not Yu Yevon, who would proceed to float around and possess another aeon and create a new Sin.

That's what makes Yu Yevon so ironic, he's God and Sin at the same time. Without him, you can't summon the beings that you use to destroy him, thus that whole cycle thing that they talked about in the game.

I still don't think Tidus and Jecht are fully dreams, and I think people are wrong to think of anything conjured by the fayth as dreams. Dream Zanarkand is based on Zanarkand as it was, so it is not necessarily wrong to assume that everything within it once existed in a tangible form. Depending on what you think of the fayth - whether you're a believer that they truly manifest people or whether you take an Al Bhed stance on it - one could argue that the dreams are in fact the real spirits of real people summoned from their previous lives, and therefore that the fayth are only channelling what once was. If somebody was then to take a hold of that channel and give it even greater meaning, as Yu Yevon did by capturing and then encaging Jecht, it doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility that Jecht was a) real and b) made more real by Yu Yevon.

I think the same applies to Tidus and that is why I feel that Tidus REALLY exists - in some form.

It would have helped if they put that in the script. As it stands it seems like the game was trying to hammer the "He's just a dream" pretty solid in the player's mind.

Jecht and Tidus were both dreams, but Jecht was made real. Before that, they were both dreams and neither really excisted. Dreams are BASED on reality, but are rarely a true representation of the world. Tidus never really lived in Zanarkand, in the fayths dream he was based on Shuyin, who did live in Zanarkand.

this whole: 'he was a dream but then he BECAME REAL OMGWTFBBQ' thing doesn't sit well with me...... The, dream transitioning into reality I can get, but I don't think Tidus and Jecht were ever 'real people', so to speak. They're creations with thoughts and feelings, kinda like SUPER advanced AI, but they always remained a dream.

I think Jecht was a normal (but very powerful) aeon when Yunalesca made him one. But as Yu Yevon posessed him, he slowly lost control over his aeon form (Jecht says: "Pretty soon I'm gonna be Sin completely. When it starts, I won't be myself anymore"...) And I think the reason Sin is so huge is because the fayth at Gagazet take Jecht's part. What Jecht doesn't control anymore, the fayth at Gagazet do. I mean, why would it be so freaking big if it weren't summoned by SO many fayth. So it wouldn't matter when they'd "wake up" - Sin would disappear anyway.

It seems like fayth can't willingly call back themselves as aeon. Only the summoner can. And Yu Yevon doesn't... for some reason. I've always thought of Yu Yevon and the Gagazet-fayth as allies, rather than the latter being slaves of Yevon. But if little Bahamut is right and the fayth do WANT to stop being Sin and Zanarkand, apparently Yu Yevon and the fayth can't be allies, else they'd just stop. OR little Bahamut just wants to stop and the fayth at Gagazet don't actually wanna.

Ugh, so many possibilities.

When you say "little Bahamut" i'm guessing that you mean his human form. Bahamut was the chosen representative of the fayth and spoke for them as a whole. So when he says the fayth want to wake up, then that's what they want.

The fayth on Gagazet were being kept asleep/dreaming by Yu Yevon, so I wouldn't call them allies.

If you read the history, Yu Yevon was a summoner, and he sought too destroy bevele by summoning all them faythe at gagazet too create sin, however driven he was he lost his humanity and became a being of only destruction.

He has neither allies nor foes, however the fayth was once his allies same as any summoner.

So he becomes a being of nothing but tunnel vision, which is survival and destruction.

If you could somehow wake the faythe i think tidius, and jecht would just disapear along with sin, leaving yu yevon exposed too whatever confronts him.

BUT that would be a plot killer now wouldn't it :P